Laughable Patchnotes

Trouvo

Supersomething wrote: »

Low level content was nerfed so clearly the sky is falling and the entire game will be face roll soon. I'm sorry but why does leveling content need to be challenging?

Most of the people who are complaining about the low level content being nerfed probably have not reached Vet ranks where you will have challenges to your hearts content. Leveling has never proved how great or bad you are in a game. Just that you are able to kill an outrageous amount of creatures and do a vast number of quests for lazy NPC's who can do nothing for themselves. Fun fact too, there are exact clones of that boss as a mob in various higher level zones, who are already easier than her to kill.

This game does not actually begin in terms of progression until you reach the VR content.

I think the concern is more about the vet content the doshia herself....what happens when these level 8 players that wanted Doshia, Gutsripper, and Balreth nerfed get to lvl 50? Are we trying to ride in front of a casual tidal wave riding at our feet so that we can still experience a challenge? Who knows but that seems to be more what the frustration from fear is rather than the actual nerfing of her, either that or its just a ****ing contest....or both

Supersomething

Trouvo wrote: »

Supersomething wrote: »

Low level content was nerfed so clearly the sky is falling and the entire game will be face roll soon. I'm sorry but why does leveling content need to be challenging?

Most of the people who are complaining about the low level content being nerfed probably have not reached Vet ranks where you will have challenges to your hearts content. Leveling has never proved how great or bad you are in a game. Just that you are able to kill an outrageous amount of creatures and do a vast number of quests for lazy NPC's who can do nothing for themselves. Fun fact too, there are exact clones of that boss as a mob in various higher level zones, who are already easier than her to kill.

This game does not actually begin in terms of progression until you reach the VR content.

I think the concern is more about the vet content the doshia herself....what happens when these level 8 players that wanted Doshia, Gutsripper, and Balreth nerfed get to lvl 50? Are we trying to ride in front of a casual tidal wave riding at our feet so that we can still experience a challenge? Who knows but that seems to be more what the frustration from fear is rather than the actual nerfing of her, either that or its just a ****ing contest....or both

If the majority of people who were complaining about this boss were as casual as some have claimed then it will take a rather considerable amount of time to even reach the VR's, and some may not even make it that far due to altitis.

I do not think the sky is falling because this boss got nerfed. She was nerfed a few times in Beta as was Gutsripper and people had the same exact arguments then too.

However, I do think that if combat was more responsive overall that nerfs like this would not even been considered in the first place, because even now the combat, especially melee, still feels exceptionally clunky.

mutharex

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

lyfeenz wrote: »

This boss was fun, died twice till I learned what those orbs were then it was ez peezy. It was that oh snap moment when I realized the mechanics, that made it fun.

Exactly.

This wasn't an issue of a boss doing too much damage, or a boss being overpowered for their level. It was about players not being willing to pay attention to the fight and figure out that the floaty orbs may have something to do with the boss healing to full every time they touch her.

And that's exactly why this is a sad omen of what is to come.

lfseeney_ESO

Very Sad to see, took her at 8th before I knew she was supposed to be hard.

The Packs of Imps gave me more issues.

Insert sword into box for xp time I guess.

Zershar_Vemod

What I love is that she is a beginner boss and people are acting like she was a Veteran content boss haha.

Get over it people - she was meant to teach new players the mechanics of a boss battle.

Hell when I did it she bugged and the orbs couldn't be destroyed; killed her with no effort because I got used to it after beta, but her bugging didn't help.

mutharex wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

Ok so no part of that sentence makes any sense to you.
Good job ZOS, keep on listening to 'feedback' (the butchering of starter experience is still fresh..) and you'll see where your game ends up

Game is going to be fine. The fact that you guys throwing a hissy fit about a level 8 quest boss that some people have trouble with is funny. Really funny.

They will keep hearing our feed back and do what is best for the game. Making a boss easier for people who are still at the learning stages is fine.

This thread is sad, and you all are some selfish people acting like that every one must be amazing skilled like you all to be able to kill a boss. The thing was over tuned, and now it is not.


You can thank the feedback we gave, just like the feedback we did on the farming of the solo dungeons.

I'll try to make it a bit easier because apparently you are having problems understanding this: the fight was easy NOT for super duper players (I am average at best) BUT for people who aren't completely brain dead. The game is going in direction of brain dead. We are very concerned. Not as concerned as you finding Doshia a "blocker". That is very concerning. maybe go play Hello Kitty Online or WoW?

*Looks around*

Who's 'we?'

The only "bad move" they've done so far is making the kill quest in Cyrodiil a daily instead of a turn-in because a group of people didn't want to go to Cyrodiil and thought that it was an exploit to want to level up in PvP - that was something that deserved more attention, instead we have people crying over a noob boss getting a nerf so that it can better help new players....for shame.

Hadria

What I've been seeing is "omg I nothing but healing abilities, no damage abilities in my bar I can't kill her nerf her nao!!" Way to ruin *** cause you don't want to take any damaging abilities like you're suppose to. Don't come in here crying about it being hard when you're got a full bar of heals and a healing staff.

Lukati_K

I decided to make an alt that would spend all SP on crafting, and was able to destroy Doshia with sword/board and heavy armor at level 10. Bear in mind, with 0 skills and 0 passives. The fight was a welcome challenge on my main (healer), but was a serious pain in the ass with the alt. I guess the difference here is that I expected my ass to be in pain until I stepped up and became a better player. It's been a while (I last played Asheron's Call in the early 2000's) since I've been challenged by an MMO like this, and I've been thoroughly enjoying it. To see these challenges being nerfed so soon is, while something I half-way expected, very disheartening.

scruffycavetroll

mutharex wrote: »

Rosebloome wrote: »

Whhaaaaaatttttt.

They nerfed doshia, and doshia was hard? O.o I never noticed. Wasn't that that fighter guild boss?

Yup. Gutripper is already little more than a normal clannfear, you can solo Balreth and kill him in more or less 30 seconds (no exaggeration, it doesn't even reach the lava once... SOLO). Mediocrity always wins, even when it's some sort of optional content, the LCD will always win (and no, I don't mean the drug unfortunately)

NERF DISPLAY MONITORS

not the right acronym : D

ShadowWolf613

I am a healer. Had the first skill in the siphoning class and a restoration staff and a couple healing abilities. I fought here at level 8 and killed her no problems. YOU GOT TO KILL THE ORBS!!! If some people took the time to learn how to kill her instead of complaining because they have no skill and are unable to think because no one is holding there hand they wouldn't have a problem. She was really easy to kill once you figured out the strategy.

Baratan

This is an awful, awful omen. If there was a certain class that couldn't possibly kill her because they're too weak, buff those classes. Otherwise you're just punishing the players who put a little forethought in to their character development. It's turning in to Rift where you have to purposefully gimp your own build to get any level of challenge form the game.

This cater to the lowest common denominator deal is a blemish on the gaming industry as a whole. I could see it now, NES Super Mario Brothers patch notes; "We noticed many players were falling through holes in certain levels and unable to jump accurately, therefor we have closed all holes in the levels. In addition, we found that many players were dying in the lava in Bowser's castle. This was unintentional, therefor we have removed all lava from the game." Nevermind the fact that many gamers play games for the satisfaction of overcoming a challenge or bettering their own skill and ability to play a game. Mind as well just remove health from the game altogether and give players "I win" and "I lose" buttons.

KerinKor

Carde wrote: »

Doshia is not a real boss. She was a Daedric Harvester which is a normal enemy in the game later on, found in many places. If you can't handle Doshia then you are seriously screwed later.

What you and the other 'achievers' are so clearly ignoring is that this boss was over-tuned ON LEVEL.

IOW, most players on most builds couldn't 'win' ON LEVEL, as an early poster commented most players that beat it were OVER LEVEL.

THAT is the problem for which a 'nerf' was required. I'm happy if you and others in this thread whining about 'wowification' beat it on level, good for you, fact is many couldn't and ZOS realised it was a Bad Thing.

Evelyn_Nightingale

I remember having trouble with Doshia on my tank, but that's because I didn't notice the orbs at first even though I knew about them. I thought I was just unable to output enough DPS. The orbs were hard to see unless you hovered your cursor over it. It would have been nice to have a tutorial cue that gave you a hint and helped bring the orbs to your attention. Or maybe even just change the color of them a little so they don't blend so easily into the background.

When I finally noticed the orbs I kicked her butt. I gave the advice to a friend and he beat it without a problem.

KerinKor

Vyshan wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

A lot of the 'bosses' have been nerfed since beta. Whiney kids whine, awesome game starts to die. next: nameplates, minimap and global AH

How would any of those three things equate to a game dying?

They obviously wouldn't but 'pro' gamers like him don't need them and since 'pro' gamers think nothing of others then .. you see where this goes.

Lalai

Supersomething wrote: »

If the majority of people who were complaining about this boss were as casual as some have claimed then it will take a rather considerable amount of time to even reach the VR's, and some may not even make it that far due to altitis.

I do not think the sky is falling because this boss got nerfed. She was nerfed a few times in Beta as was Gutsripper and people had the same exact arguments then too.

However, I do think that if combat was more responsive overall that nerfs like this would not even been considered in the first place, because even now the combat, especially melee, still feels exceptionally clunky.

I think casual has too many meanings now-a-days to just lump a lot of people in there. My problem with it is more along the lines of what Trouvo stated. The people that wanted the nerf don't necessarily play less than I do, and they don't necessarily level slower than me. In all likelihood I've ran dungeons with some of those people.

The thing that concerns me is that, when faced with a challenge, the community's knee-jerk reaction seems to be to scream nerf it. I, personally, think there is a link between the quality of PUG party members and quests that are suppose to teach you how to deal with certain things. A lot of MMOs don't have any sort of difficult quests, and certainly no quests that really teach you how to deal with a dungeon boss's mechanics.

If Doshia had been a quest that blocks your progress indefinitely, then I would have more of a problem with it being difficult. Instead it's more a side guild thing. You don't have to do it, you can still level up in the Fighter's Guild without doing it. She didn't really hit hard or anything, the worst part about the fight is if she healed, but that was preventable, so even doing puny amounts of damage she'd still die. There's no real penalty for going back at a later level if that's what you need to do.. but I liked that it forced players to learn. Heck, even the majority of people saying it was hard in this thread still eventually downed her. It may have taken a few tries but eventually they got the fight and won.

Those players will be better off in the long haul for it. They'll likely be my tanks/dps that know to interrupt if they see a skill being cast, or to block... and to keep an eye out for outside mechanics that may make a boss fight easier in a dungeon.

I don't think the level 8 mob nerf is the end of the world, but I am sad it happened, and I hope more stuff such as that doesn't happen in the future (even though I know it likely will).

trinta

Turial wrote: »

In fairness, some builds are stronger than others, especially starting out as Doshia is a low level quest it can be overwhelming for some players who are still figuring out where to place skills, etc. Doshia mechanics are used later in the game too and much more difficult but by that time you have skill points in areas you want and a slightly better build, by that point players can focus on it. I personally had no problem with Doshia on my Templar but she wiped the floor with my Nightblade.

This. My husband had to fight her twice, I didn't and still don't even remember this fight on my Templar.

Kolache

I've never had a problem killing her, but it's not like that one-time fight per character is the highlight of leveling a new character. If it was a slippery slope we were on where everything was getting made easier, I might be concerned. One of the first newbie boss fights? Ehh... trying to care.

Imryll

SgtPepperUK wrote: »

Because a quest where most people waited until they were several levels over the supposed quest level being made easier is a nerf?

Nobody minds a true challenge but there are times when the difficulty spikes up beyond what it should for the stated quest level.

In this case I'd rather they had adjusted her quest level rather than encounter difficulty. As someone who seems always to outlevel her opponents I don't want the game made easier. I think it's a good thing when I have to stop and think about what I need to do to achieve a different outcome. Craft new gear? Bolster my stats via food or drink? Change my strat? Fill in a gap in my array of abilities? Practice dodging to improve my timing? Change how I'm distributing my attribute points? Periodic wake-up calls will make me a better player. There's no point to combat that comes down to auto-attack and win.

And I'm hardly an elite player. Think 65-year-old woman with slowing reflexes and less-than-stellar vision. Still, I'm capable of learning from encounters gone wrong.

drwoody44b14_ESO

Ekeiram wrote: »

It depends on you build, really. I knew the mechanics , and still the fight took 15 minutes or more, but my BF wit a lot less experience , but the right build, didn't even had too look at the mechanics and had her down within a minute.
I would love her to stay this hard, but I can understand that they did this. ( they probably have a lot of data of people fighting her )

Hate to break it to you, but you're part of the "make everything easier" problem.

Darzil

portallib14_ESO wrote: »

What I've been seeing is "omg I nothing but healing abilities, no damage abilities in my bar I can't kill her nerf her nao!!" Way to ruin *** cause you don't want to take any damaging abilities like you're suppose to. Don't come in here crying about it being hard when you're got a full bar of heals and a healing staff.

Well, the game is a LOT easier at low levels as DPS than Healer or Tank. I guess they'll tune the game as it goes on, as if the answer to everything is slot DPS abilities when levelling then that really would be an issue ! Remember, flexibility in build is the games key selling point !

Doshia is a more than anything a test of your handling of the control systems, which are pretty unlike any other game I've played (not played other elder scrolls games). I spend more time fighting the control systems than the mobs at present, though it's improving. I did defeat her roughly on level I seem to recall.

Was talking to friends who encountered 4-5 such monsters on a late game anchor, who just spammed AOE and facerolled it. You have a very good chance of not being able to do so at Doshia level, though. Especially if you went for a CC+focus fire build rather than an AOE build. So you have to target 4 times instead of hitting one AOE, and will find 1-2 of them are behind her. In some of the constricted spaces in EP you can also end up being stuck in a corner by her.

I'd guess that Zenimax have game logs that tell them what % of people are dying to her, how often, and at what levels, and have decided what they were seeing wasn't want they wanted to see from a starter game boss.

rwood0604_ESO

Doshia was easy you don't have to be skilled to beat he face then hit the orbs that spawn 1 time while getting healed to hit them and then continue to beat her face, I'ts a sad day when something gets nerfed when it wasn't even hard, at most people died one time then went back at destroyed her/it.

Lukati_K

Baratan wrote: »

Nevermind the fact that many gamers play games for the satisfaction of overcoming a challenge or bettering their own skill and ability to play a game. Mind as well just remove health from the game altogether and give players "I win" and "I lose" buttons.

This is spot on. For every post like this, however, there is a post explaining how challenges like these fly in the face of the "casual gaming experience."

There are those who like to play games, and those who like to watch games as if they are movies. The latter have taken over a good portion of the MMO market, apparently.

Those of you who wish to watch or play on rails, please go find that game.

Trouvo

Baratan wrote: »

This is an awful, awful omen. If there was a certain class that couldn't possibly kill her because they're too weak, buff those classes. Otherwise you're just punishing the players who put a little forethought in to their character development. It's turning in to Rift where you have to purposefully gimp your own build to get any level of challenge form the game.

This cater to the lowest common denominator deal is a blemish on the gaming industry as a whole. I could see it now, NES Super Mario Brothers patch notes; "We noticed many players were falling through holes in certain levels and unable to jump accurately, therefor we have closed all holes in the levels. In addition, we found that many players were dying in the lava in Bowser's castle. This was unintentional, therefor we have removed all lava from the game." Nevermind the fact that many gamers play games for the satisfaction of overcoming a challenge or bettering their own skill and ability to play a game. Mind as well just remove health from the game altogether and give players "I win" and "I lose" buttons.

Dont forget they are also giving mario a sword since people cant jump on goombas, and a compass and map so players know which way to go, arrow markers to indicate enemies, infinite lives, and never ending star power. Pretty sure miyamoto talked about this new "mediocrity" in an interview he had in the last year....really really sad....the internet has helped to teach people that you get things instantly, you get what you want, you dont have to be resourceful, you dont need to know anything because someone else will tell you the answer, you dont even need to know how to spell as technology will correct it for you.

Welcome to the new age!

Rapscallion74

Doshia was hard only to people who refuse to think, even for a second. Same with the boss in the Wyrd tree.

Zakua

Oh man I loved/hated that Boss. I was glad to be done with her after she layed me out 7 or so times in a row lol. Once I realized I could attack the orbs I made quick work of her. Taught me to not always think I was the unstoppable DPS god of death I believed to be.

Bumb deal they nerfed her.

I remember standing around the entrance to her lair with about 15 other players, chatting up how hard she was, good laughs we had....then the Lutes and shirtless male dancers came......

drwoody44b14_ESO

KerinKor wrote: »

Carde wrote: »

Doshia is not a real boss. She was a Daedric Harvester which is a normal enemy in the game later on, found in many places. If you can't handle Doshia then you are seriously screwed later.

What you and the other 'achievers' are so clearly ignoring is that this boss was over-tuned ON LEVEL.

IOW, most players on most builds couldn't 'win' ON LEVEL, as an early poster commented most players that beat it were OVER LEVEL.

THAT is the problem for which a 'nerf' was required. I'm happy if you and others in this thread whining about 'wowification' beat it on level, good for you, fact is many couldn't and ZOS realised it was a Bad Thing.

Except that it wasnt and you prove to be one of the WoW kiddies that most people talk about. I wasn't even aware that this was a hard fight until the patch notes.]

I bet you think WoW LFR bosses were hard too.

Skillet

Terrible nerf. Way to go ZOS.

Darrett

A lot of people need to get over themselves. It's a low level quest that was difficult for some builds even knowing the mechanics. The orbs don't always die in one hit, and there are several of them.

I didn't have a huge problem with it, but it was pretty hectic with a 2H. 1-2 swings to kill an orb and only a few seconds to stop them. Took quite a while.

It doesn't hurt to make starter quest bosses less frustrating for new players. Level 8 is not level 50.

IronMaiden_burnout

Hawke wrote: »

Here is the video... Level 6 (Doshia is level 8) and no morphed skills, only the 3 basic class skills, and Shield weapon (no weapon skills, no racial skills, nothing).

I took her down after the orb bug stopped bugging out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StaXyRhCS78


She is not impossible, you just have to use interrupt, or go ranged on her. And you do not need aoe!

Well of course hes a mage in a fighter's guild quest. I tried with my 2H fighter at level 8 and got killed bad, did it just last night at level 13 now and it was still a good fight but I wooped her good.

Rapscallion74

Darrett wrote: »

A lot of people need to get over themselves. It's a low level quest that was difficult for some builds even knowing the mechanics. The orbs don't always die in one hit, and there are several of them.

I didn't have a huge problem with it, but it was pretty hectic with a 2H. 1-2 swings to kill an orb and only a few seconds to stop them. Took quite a while.

It doesn't hurt to make starter quest bosses less frustrating for new players. Level 8 is not level 50.

Yes, but the problem is that if you capitulate to the lvl 8 whiners, they will eventually become lvl 50 whiners who ruin the game.

accursed1

Go ranged. I beat it at lvl 8, shot her orbs and worked on whittling her down little by little. The fight took 10 to 15 min, but if you are patient and kill the orb and jump over her ground lightning anyone can do it.