Boss Camping Has To Be Dealt With

Elunthir

Jonnymorrow wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Midgardian wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Midgardian wrote: »

"My suggestion keeps the game open for all "

This has got to be one of the most overblown uses of rhetoric I've seen on these forums. Farming public dungeon bosses is closing the game?

What exactly is the problem? I've been in a public dungeon where 10-15 people were farming the boss, and I had no problem killing the boss multiple times and getting useful items. If you aren't happy, do something else.

The only way I can see this changing for the positive is if quests and random world mobs give better loot. Overall, the quest rewards are pretty lacking in this game, making it necessary to farm mobs.

I find the public dungeons fun when there are a lot of people in them.

I'll keep it simple for you so you don't come back with sarcasm. Boss camping is clown activity. Other players want to explore and have a boss fight. Is that ok with you? All are entitled to that boss fight. My suggestion makes it so that since you can't slam the boss every 2 minutes, you exit and head somewhere else. That gives Bobby Turnbuckles a chance to fight a boss and walk away with the satisfying experience.

You think your quest for loot or xp or whatever else it is should hamper the rest of our experiences?

I didn't use sarcasm.

There are plenty of things for you to do in the game. You can fight the boss. I've never had problems fighting the boss. People are camping it, so they are obviously killing it.

No one is hampering your experience. You can fight the boss. You can quest. You can still play the game. You are the one asking to change a fundamental mechanic just so you can "fight" a pointless boss.

Yes big boss man. Your ability to loot and ravage bosses has to stay because you say it has to. Does not matter that others want to go in there and have a real fight. Because your explanation of "fighting" the boss is getting one swing off as 10 others pummel it also and it dies literally within 3 seconds of spawn.

The bosses in this game are Micky mouse mate. There is no challenge even when playing solo.

The bosses are Milk drinks

Omniphonic

this is a huge problem. coming to a dead stop waiting an hour to do enough damage to get credit for killing a boss is game-breaking. there's quests where you have to do a certain percentage of damage to get kill credit, but the farmers don't give a damn, and that kind of direct quest completion interference is griefing, plain and simple.

I hope they can find an elegant solution that doesn't punish normal players, and I absolutely feel that players guilty of doing this deserve punishment. Not just for their behavior, but for their mentality as well.

merryblues

Kill the bots...

Lonzrick

Well, I think the key is that it's OK (if a bit slimy) for a player to camp a boss and kill, kill, kill. But auto-bots doing it should be right out. So the question is how to tell if a person is sitting at a keyboard...?

My initial idea isn't fully fleshed out, but maybe it's a starting point. What if the BOSS upon his death said something in your chat window. He could have a whole bunch of phrases, any of which the game would pick at random. Furthermore, it would also pick one word of that phrase and put it in a different color, hopefully in a way that no code/script could detect. Then, once the boss dies, if you want to stay there and "legitimately" camp him, you'd have to type something like /proof theWord. If you do, the boss will be red next time he pops...if not, he's useless (although he can still kill your auto-botting a$$)..

flamecloud

Lonzrick wrote: »

Well, I think the key is that it's OK (if a bit slimy) for a player to camp a boss and kill, kill, kill. But auto-bots doing it should be right out. So the question is how to tell if a person is sitting at a keyboard...?

My initial idea isn't fully fleshed out, but maybe it's a starting point. What if the BOSS upon his death said something in your chat window. He could have a whole bunch of phrases, any of which the game would pick at random. Furthermore, it would also pick one word of that phrase and put it in a different color, hopefully in a way that no code/script could detect. Then, once the boss dies, if you want to stay there and "legitimately" camp him, you'd have to type something like /proof theWord. If you do, the boss will be red next time he pops...if not, he's useless (although he can still kill your auto-botting a$$)..

I agree wholeheartedly that it is ok for the players to camp a boss (for the blues and set pieces) but the bots have to go.

Firmament

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Suggestion: Make it so that once you kill a boss a timer kicks in. So for example, once a boss is killed by a player, that same player cannot kill it again for an hour. Instead of having it glow red make it glow yellow for an hour before reset (do not change respawn time for sake of other players running through). This will deter campers and keep them moving along.

Edit: This can also be applied to deter the issue of werewolf/vampire camping and then selling bites to other players for gold.

I am impressed. I loved it! I hope they implement this and hire you since they need this kind of ideas to fix some issues the game has.

SuperCahouete

Since the loots aren't shared, they could just make the Boss drops its item the first time that he's killed by your character and only once (or maybe a 24h timer for reloot).

Currently someone who really wants the blue item will simply camp about ten minutes the Boss and bored the following players. And the only ones who currently do not have these unique items are "cool players" who kill the boss once. They act as intended and make the game more immersive, believable (and mature).

Not like those greedy, obsessed (and obviously frustrated IRL) players who act like spoiled children. There is a bunch of Korean MMO's where they can dump their love for bashing and random looting.

Nimrael

I don't know of a way to fix because the public/contested zones are easy, solo-content with a simple zone-layout and they're just there for a quick XP/Skyshard grab.
You easily get your boss zone update and tbh, I don't care that other people stand there and farm him.

The thing I do care about is that these contested dungeons are pretty lame.

Anyone who has played a game like EQ2 knows that contested dungeons are the best thing in MMOs, when done right.
That means massive dungeons, (group) bosses in rooms and non-linear zone layout.
That also means CONTESTED content.
If you or your group tag a mob, you get its XP and loot and you alone. Or you die to it.
None of this carebear stuff where 100 people zerg 12 poor mobs.

Nohvin

Zarec wrote: »

jdkorreckpreub18_ESO wrote: »

Basically I see the immersion crowd as saying "YOU WILL PLAY MY WAY OR YOU WILL BE BANNED AS I AM GOD"

No what you see is zenimax saying, break our rules and be banned as we own the game.

That's only what you interpret ZOS to have said. That exact line is in every TOS, and boss camping is not a new thing. The only people I've seen mention people getting banned are the people complaining about boss camping. They aren't going to ban anyone for this, you're stupid if you think otherwise.

Edit: like 16 pages late, but who's counting? =P

Bolo_Bob

in my opinion bots are the only problem.

what would be nice is a way to select an instance like in guild wars 1, the more people in an area the more "sub-servers" or whatever you want to call it available to pick from. which in GW1 they called them districts. which that only applied in town since almost all of GW1 content was in a group instance.

i rarely farm boss's due to so many people being there already, but honestly i did not care enough to farm to try relogging my character to get a different instance of the zone.

if i choose to farm a boss i should not be restricted, that restriction should be saved for bots.

quote me if you like, but i do not agree with the OP and there are other options that could be implemented.

Endolith

From a practical standpoint, whatever you think of bosses or farming, I suspect the devs are going to address anything that substantially interferes with a large number of players and also with how the devs envision the game. I'm sure they have a vision in mind as to the ideal when a player has gone through a series of quests to ultimately come up on a public boss. Whether we agree or disagree, I think that any situation that arises that has a substantial impact on how the devs want those areas to turn out are ultimately going to be addressed. If the timers don't work, you'll see something else next.

ldwulfub17_ESO

Bosses that generate unique items or an achievement, etc. should be kill once, unless you are grouped with a player who hasn't done it yet (so you can help your friends). Otherwise, if you already have the achievement/reward for that particular boss, you can watch the fight but can not inflict damage on it or loot it.

You can still indirectly help other players as well (such as area heals, buffs, etc.) when they fight it, even if not grouped. And maybe they'll give you the loot in exchange for the help, if they so choose.

But I agree that unique bosses shouldn't be camped for endless repeated killing / farming.

RinaldoGandolphi

Boss camping has gotten way out of hand.

Simply put, after the Public Boss is killed once, it shouldn't spawn for that player again UNLESS they are in a group with players who have not yet killed the boss.

That puts a complete stop to this bot boss camping nonsense. as each bot will only be able to kill the boss once before having to make new bots, to put in the group to be able to do it again.

Jonoarc

In GW2, the champ (and world) bosses scale in toughness with the amount of players in the vicinity. That means, you have enough time to get quest-credit (and loot) from the kill, regardless of how few or how many players are attacking the boss.

pmn100b16_ESO

Endolith wrote: »

I'm sure they have a vision in mind as to the ideal when a player has gone through a series of quests to ultimately come up on a public boss.

Yeah I don't think this is what they had in mind, lol.

For the record, yes this isn't even a lot of campers, and none of these were bots, and yes there is much worse out there. Just the first dungeon I came across this morning.

eol

I agree, its way out of hand, and it is ruining the experience for many players for public dungeons. Perfectly simply to have one time drops on these bosses and once you've gotten yours, bye bye. This idea of getting in 'one good hit', come on, since when is one good hit the threshold for MMO gameplay. Might as well just put the loot on a timer and get rid of the boss altogether... which is pretty much what the farmers want anyway.

steven_shidiwenb16_ESO

Slow role-single-players crying, Elite players prosper. The Elites are the ones that will stay years from now.

mark.coogan_ESO

steven_shidiwenb16_ESO wrote: »

Slow role-single-players crying, Elite players prosper. The Elites are the ones that will stay years from now.

So you think standing in one place for hours killing a low level boss with one hit makes someone an 'Elite' player ?

Boy do you have low standards.....

AshTal

Boss Camping annoys me, I cant remember every seeing a boss with less than 4 people using macros to just kill it over and over.
However I would like to go a step further they should limit the number of people in instances, the number of times I make it through a dungeon without seeing a single monster is insane. People talk to me as if I am the hero but in truth I am just a guy out for a stroll. Half the time I miss the dialog the boss is meant to say to explain things cuz his already dead.
Boss camping and 100 people in an instance need to be sorted.

dbennett707cub18_ESO

I don't really see how this hurts anyone as long as it's actual players doing the farming, this is how I get blues to deconstruct for my crafting. If you can't get a tag on the mob, I think you may be doing something wrong. Also alot of these complaints seem silly, complaining about it take 2-3 times to get a tag and that it spawns almost instantly? whats the problem then?

Vertisce

The problem is people just camp the boss to farm the rare drops and potions. It's annoying but has never prevented me from completing my goal of my quest completion or dungeon completion.

I would recommend fixing this however. The fix is simple. Make it so that any individual boss will not drop loot for a player more than once every 12 hours. This will force players to either go kill other bosses or do something else entirely. This will also prevent saturation of the rare items in the game. This saturation prevention would also help in crafting as a lot of people only want the rare items to decon and get rare crafting mats from them.

Anoteros

gharms wrote: »

Atzenxb14a_ESO wrote: »

gharms wrote: »

Actually, you're wrong. Whileyes, the boss will spawn when someone comes along, he also spawns randomly. I was in a dungeon earlier with 2 other people for about 30 mins. No o e else came in, and we killed the boss like 10 times. You are right, it's a bad mechanic. I agree there. But stop sidestepping the truth. Name one mmo that doesn't require some sort of farming of named mobs to get good gear. It would be one thing if we got more turpin and the like from crafting, and more blue items from normal mobs and quests. But we don't. ThisIis the ONLY RELIABLE WAY to get blue items to wear and deconstruct to mkae other blue gear. Hirelings, even at higher levels, rarely bring these items. The deconstruct perk helps a little for hemming and honing stones, but I have yet to get a blue+ crafting item from crafting. You are basically saying because you too terrible to hit a boss that everyone needs to be kept from being more successful than you. You must be an Obama voter, too.

Aww, poor baby cant get his precious blues anymore so he is reverting to insults.

I never said I cant hit the mob, I said its an exploit. which it is, which is why its getting fixed.

Yes, I know that they are ALSO on timers, but that's not what makes this a viable option does it? What makes this so viable for you "farmers" is the new people coming in over and over and over and spawning it for you, which you then in turn screw them out of their shot.

Don't sit there and pretend that its a skill game either, because its not at that point.

Quester walks through doorway, mob pops, mob dies, quester was never able to even get in range. Don't pretend.

Either way, guess what? Its coming to an end... guess you need to go out and farm like it is intended now! You are basically saying because you are too terrible to play the game that everyone needs to suffer your exploiting in dungeons.
(this applies to you too karl )
See what I did there??

and no... I didn't vote for Obama. THANKS THO!

Lol "exploit". I don't think that word means what you think it does. Funny part is, as shown by these forums, YOU are the minority. Why a developer would listen to the wishes of the overly whiny minority is beyond me. And "farm like intended"? According to who? You? See, I have a plethora of MMOs that back my assertion that this is part of the game. You have a healthy helping of butthurt and an opinion passed off as fact. How does one "farm like intended" when what I need to farm is not available almost anywhere else but the method you cried like a baby about until it got "fixed"? How dare us players who pay as much as you do be able to play like we want to, right? Has to be your way or no way. And before you spout the reverse of what I said back at me like a dyslexic parrot, my way is the popular and time tested way. Yours is the "if I can't have it, no one can" way.

Thank you. Well said.
If I can farm in any other mmorpg i've played I should be able to do so here. Whether it be in a dungeon, world boss, mobs etc

Make the dungeons instanced, retune some of the mob spawns and add a limit to how may times you can reset the instance and thus ends the problem.

damien.vandermeulenrwb17_ESO

dbennett707cub18_ESO wrote: »

I don't really see how this hurts anyone as long as it's actual players doing the farming, this is how I get blues to deconstruct for my crafting. If you can't get a tag on the mob, I think you may be doing something wrong. Also alot of these complaints seem silly, complaining about it take 2-3 times to get a tag and that it spawns almost instantly? whats the problem then?

Some classes have better access to instant damage abilities than others. This problem is particularly bad for Restoration Staff sorcerors, Destruction staff sorcerors have one instant ability, but even standing at the boss spawn, spamming that button to get the hit off before it dies to the 10 botters/farmers surrounding it (who seem to all be templars and nightblades, I've noticed) is a challenge. And most I simply have not dealt enough damage to actually get any loot from it.

Botters are really the bigger problem, considering with a farmer who is sitting there at the PC to kill the mob, you can politely ask them to let you tag it with a couple of hits before they let loose on it.

That being said, I think that statement gives too much credit to most (not all) of the farmers that are posting in this thread, who clearly don't give a rats arse about anyone's enjoyment save their own.

Taron

So the "bosses" have low health to enable solo players to kill them.

When groups camp them, they go down in a second, some players miss their quest kill, a lot more miss the chance to do sufficient damage to get loot.

The complicated solution to this is to have the "boss" health scale according to how many players past the entrance to that room.

Another more simple solution would be to have the "Boss" flail about in the throes of death, on zero health, where they are still hittable.

I believe either would solve the problem of landing a hit, or landing a loot-worthy amount of damage.

- Camping is a separate issue imo. If it is felt necessary to fix it, either instance the boss. Or cap the number of times you can gain loot from it.

Endolith

dbennett707cub18_ESO wrote: »

I don't really see how this hurts anyone as long as it's actual players doing the farming, this is how I get blues to deconstruct for my crafting. If you can't get a tag on the mob, I think you may be doing something wrong. Also alot of these complaints seem silly, complaining about it take 2-3 times to get a tag and that it spawns almost instantly? whats the problem then?

I think it depends on the player and what they're looking for. It's a benefit for the playstyle of some, and hurts the playstyle of others. That will always be a tension in an MMO. In this particular case, though, I think that whether the devs back off on their vision of how things should play out, or not, is what is going to matter. If you look at the time put into some of the quest build up to these dungeons, and how the devs have structured the storyline, it's pretty clear that they originally intended these dungeons to play out a certain way, which wasn't with a dungeon full of dead mobs and ten players repeatedly killing the boss. The devs are going to have to do one of two things:

1. Adjust their view of how things should work based on how players are actually playing these dungeons, and maybe even make some modifications to quests leading up to them to account for it so that it actually makes some kind of sense within the context of the game; or
2. Keep making tweaks to try to get at things that substantially disrupt the experience they originally intended (my statement of intent is from the context around these dungeons, how the game is designed leading up to them, story and so on) until they run in a way that seems reasonable with respect to the other game content.

The issue can be argued either way, of course. My guess, if I have to make a prediction, is that they're going to go more along the lines of #2, and keep trying to tweak things until public dungeons run more in line with what they must have had in mind (judging by how the game is written and how the quest lines play out).

Neither approach will please everyone.

Publius_Scipio

Reading this thread a lot of you have a very interesting logic process. You proponents show absolutely zero regard for the game experience of the rest of us. Your entire argument entails that camping and farming are "staples of MMOs" as someone in this thread put it. So because other MMOs had it and other developers never did anything about it ZOS needs to take the same path?

The next argument is that now you can't play the game as you choose. That is a complete load of something really stinky. The rules apply to EVERYONE and you aren't at any disadvantage of getting loot versus someone else. The root of the issue is you are upset that now boss camping is no longer this super quick faucet of loot. SO AGAIN I WILL REPEAT, YOU CAN PLAY THE GAME HOWEVER YOU CHOOSE YOU JUST CAN'T PUT YOUR MOUTH UNDER THE SLURPEE MACHINE AT 7-11 AND HOLD THE LEVER DOWN FOR AS LONG AS YOU WANT. Get the point?

You are like a plague of locusts eating all the crops and then when someone stands up and says hey, you are affecting my crops (game experience) can we figure something out, you all say o well but this is what I've always done.

No one has ZOS's ear and the reason why ZOS is looking into the issue is because when they thought about it, it made sense to them that something needs to be done.

fiftypercentgrey

I dont care if they are campers, bots or whatever. In every single of those mini"dungeons" there is a crowd of them and the real challenge is to get a hit in before the "boss" dies.
I gave up on loot, I just want the completion (and the skyshard).

Loot would be nice, of course.
Or the feeling that I actually do something heroic instead of zerging a too-small dungeon.

Jonoarc

Taron wrote: »

The complicated solution to this is to have the "boss" health scale according to how many players past the entrance to that room.

Yeah, like I said earlier I agree with this solution. Works swell in GW2.

babylon

Again, what worries me is how the nerf on dungeon loot will only bring the bots out into the open world, which will be even more annoying. And if ZOS then goes and nerfs open world loot (it's pretty crappy already) then I will not be very happy.

Think about it - the bots will be coming into the open world now. This is not good.

KefkaGestahl

This will not stop the gold sellers. They will simply find another way to make money. One that is far more time consuming, but that is their "job", so they will persevere. Honest players. Players who don't have as much time. They will be the ones who suffer because of this decision. If somebody gained money through questing along, they wouldn't be able to buy a 42,000 gold horse until sometime in their fourth zone.

But while we're raining on parades, ban grinding. It's so immersion breaking when I go to quest in a zone and I see dozens of players running in circles like it's some sort of Olympic event. Running in circles, killing zombies. Running in circles. They don't talk to you. They're just running. They're more like zombies than the zombies. It's unrealistic to be able to kill zombies over and over. I can't kill the zombies because players kill the zombies as soon as they spawn.