Boss Camping Has To Be Dealt With

Endolith

Byshop wrote: »

FIX INCOMING!

Public Dungeon & Delve Boss Monsters – Also based on feedback, we will be placing a timer on how often you can get loot from public dungeon and delve boss monsters. This timer is shared across all boss monsters in public dungeons and delves.

Good.

Publius_Scipio

I think we have been heard my friends! And they implemented a timer suggestion similar to the one I mentioned in the OP! Thanks Zenimax!

Anoteros

'Play the game your way BUT don't you dare try and farm/grind/pass your time how you want'
Yeah f2p in no time.

Kililin

Hopefully this does not mean shared across all boss monsters in all public dungeons and delves, but across all boss monsters in one delve/dungeon, or the timer his high enough to allow for normal play. (like circling through all delves on a map)

I have to admit boss camping got out of hand in the last week, i also play on off times and even then there are at least 5 people or rather bots on every boss, prime time i rarely see the boss, just a blob of avatars.

That said, the timer is the cheapest way out, and the most likely one to impact normal players. Botter dont care, they will setup camp at the next farming spot.

Also to everyone who wants to experience the game as its meant to be, you will be having fun in coldharbour, where whole subzones are perma farmed by large AE groups and you have to try to get a shot in on your quest targets (real quest targets, not achievement like delve bosses).
In my opinion you can not design a game the way it was done here and expect to enforce "correct" behavior via artificial rules.

Publius_Scipio

Anoteros wrote: »

'Play the game your way BUT don't you dare try and farm/grind/pass your time how you want'
Yeah f2p in no time.

So the rest of us having issues could go kick rocks? And their fix puts us all at the same advantage for getting loot.... You can still play the game how you want after the tweak.... Just can't go on some crazed obsessive boss camping binge that made you rich quick.

Publius_Scipio

Kililin wrote: »

Hopefully this does not mean shared across all boss monsters in all public dungeons and delves, but across all boss monsters in one delve/dungeon, or the timer his high enough to allow for normal play. (like circling through all delves on a map)

I have to admit boss camping got out of hand in the last week, i also play on off times and even then there are at least 5 people or rather bots on every boss, prime time i rarely see the boss, just a blob of avatars.

That said, the timer is the cheapest way out, and the most likely one to impact normal players. Botter dont care, they will setup camp at the next farming spot.

Also to everyone who wants to experience the game as its meant to be, you will be having fun in coldharbour, where whole subzones are perma farmed by large AE groups and you have to try to get a shot in on your quest targets (real quest targets, not achievement like delve bosses).
In my opinion you can not design a game the way it was done here and expect to enforce "correct" behavior via artificial rules.

Unless I am mistaken I believe it means that for public dungeons and delves once you kill the boss (lets say for the 1st time) you get the loot drop and a timer kicks in. The timer applies to your character not another player and you can keep killing the boss but won't get any loot until the timer expires. This is a great first step to fighting back against the bots and obsessive campers. They can stand there and swing but will be wasting their time if the objective is quick loot.

This brings up an interesting thing now. After the tweak farmers essentially become nothing but campers since there is a timer. So, if players have issues with campers now, and you can't use the "farming is allowed" defense because of the timer, many will fall into the being a "griefer" category. But then again they can argue they are there for xp. BUT THEN AGAIN it was never for the xp (because it isn't a ton after the initial completion achieved), it was for the loot. All very interesting indeed.

Kililin

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Anoteros wrote: »

'Play the game your way BUT don't you dare try and farm/grind/pass your time how you want'
Yeah f2p in no time.

So the rest of us having issues could go kick rocks? And their fix puts us all at the same advantage for getting loot.... You can still play the game how you want after the tweak.... Just can't go on some crazed obsessive boss camping binge that made you rich quick.

You have to understand, there will be the next best way to make money/loot/whatever.
This next best way will be camped after the change, because people.

In MMOs there always will be people playing in the most efficient way.
The only way you can stop it, is to make i meaningless. If everyone has enough gold nobody in their right mind will camp bosses for gold. Just as an example.
What happens here is: everything costs ungodly amounts and if want your mount, bagspace and repair costs covered everyone has a few options

- buy from gold farmers (obviously lots of people do it, see general chat)
- farm bosses for soul stone money (bot or no bot)
- ...

And please dont say you could wait, or something similar. I know, *I* can wait, *I* would never buy gold, but there are lots of people who dont want to wait and are motivated enough to mind numbingly farm bosses, or do business with shady companies.

You have to design progress and economy in a way that works, not nerf xp rates into the ground and implementing lock out timers if you want an open world.

Publius_Scipio

Kililin wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Anoteros wrote: »

'Play the game your way BUT don't you dare try and farm/grind/pass your time how you want'
Yeah f2p in no time.

So the rest of us having issues could go kick rocks? And their fix puts us all at the same advantage for getting loot.... You can still play the game how you want after the tweak.... Just can't go on some crazed obsessive boss camping binge that made you rich quick.

You have to understand, there will be the next best way to make money/loot/whatever.
This next best way will be camped after the change, because people.

In MMOs there always will be people playing in the most efficient way.
The only way you can stop it, is to make i meaningless. If everyone has enough gold nobody in their right mind will camp bosses for gold. Just as an example.
What happens here is: everything costs ungodly amounts and if want your mount, bagspace and repair costs covered everyone has a few options

- buy from gold farmers (obviously lots of people do it, see general chat)
- farm bosses for soul stone money (bot or no bot)
- ...

And please dont say you could wait, or something similar. I know, *I* can wait, *I* would never buy gold, but there are lots of people who dont want to wait and are motivated enough to mind numbingly farm bosses, or do business with shady companies.

You have to design progress and economy in a way that works, not nerf xp rates into the ground and implementing lock out timers if you want an open world.

The game has to be made fair and consider the entire community. Farmers have the same shot at loot as everyone else does, before and after the tweak. Also if someone has an itch that it is an obsession, and they will do real life business with shady companies for in game gold etc, that's unfortunate but we can't police what they decide to do.

ZOS responsibility is to the players and the game itself. ZOS has to do everything it can to stop gold sellers on the chat but can't stop the person behind the keyboard from deciding to make a shady purchase.

tordr86b16_ESO

I disagree with your statements, it should stay the way it is.

Anoteros

Some of you just aren't seeing how adding a timer to bosses will not alleviate the problem or fix anything.
The bosses aren't on a fixed spawn timer to begin with. They respawn based on when a new player enters an invisible barrier/marker in the bosses room which is where the problem lies.
The bots will still sit at spawns zerging the boss which will make getting the dungeon complete any possible loot impossible as even getting a 'tag' on the boss to register when there's 50054873 bots smashing it is in itself impossible too. It has happened to me plenty of times. I can see my damage ticking on the boss but I get NO xp or loot.

ZOS either needs to overhaul the public dungeon system all together and make them instanced/phased where once the boss has been killed by a player thats it and a reset would need to be done just like the 4 player dungeons.

If I want to sit and farm things all day whether it be in the world or in dungeons is my prerogative and should not be taken away simply because ZOS are too slack to enforce bans and actively monitor and respond to bot reporting swiftly.

Publius_Scipio

Anoteros wrote: »

Some of you just aren't seeing how adding a timer to bosses will not alleviate the problem or fix anything.
The bosses aren't on a fixed spawn timer to begin with. They respawn based on when a new player enters an invisible barrier/marker in the bosses room which is where the problem lies.
The bots will still sit at spawns zerging the boss which will make getting the dungeon complete any possible loot impossible as even getting a 'tag' on the boss to register when there's 50054873 bots smashing it is in itself impossible too. It has happened to me plenty of times. I can see my damage ticking on the boss but I get NO xp or loot.

ZOS either needs to overhaul the public dungeon system all together and make them instanced/phased where once the boss has been killed by a player thats it and a reset would need to be done just like the 4 player dungeons.

If I want to sit and farm things all day whether it be in the world or in dungeons is my prerogative and should not be taken away simply because ZOS are too slack to enforce bans and actively monitor and respond to bot reporting swiftly.

The timer is a DETERRENT to camping and bots because it makes a certain amount of time fruitless for loot. The FIX for bots is eliminating the bots. If a real live player's prerogative is to wait in the same spot for the timer to run out then they are entitled to do so. But then again the timer is a deterrent to real players sitting in one spot.

Tarelyn

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

... The FIX for bots is eliminating the bots.

yes.
but easier said than done, unfortunately.

Evilmog

Kililin wrote: »

Hopefully this does not mean shared across all boss monsters in all public dungeons and delves, but across all boss monsters in one delve/dungeon, or the timer his high enough to allow for normal play. (like circling through all delves on a map)

This timer is shared across all boss monsters in public dungeons and delves.

Looks like it's shared throughout all, or poor wording. However; they fail to state what the time limit is (with good cause). Who knows, moving from 1 to another may be the duration of the timer.

Mememe

I don't farm public dungeon bosses. No point at my level, plenty of gear. However I have played many MMO's for years. The most successful ones are the biggest grind fests.

Unfortunately if ZOS are making the mistake of trying to please everyone and catering to the solo market. The game will die not long from now.

Mikeriddle1b16_ESO

I've not read all 14 pages of posts so forgive me if anything is repeated. Camping cannot be completely removed, but can be reduced by (i) making dungeons larger places to explore (like old style dungeons) rather than 'circular loops' and adding more bosses due to the increased dungeon size (ii) adding multiple random span points for the boss (again more feasible with a decent dungeon size); and (iii) using the phasing mechanic to add triggers to be completed prior to having a 'chance' for the boss to appear (this also enables a minimum time period to have to pass prior to the boss spawning for a particular group).

tordr86b16_ESO

Of all the things you people chose to spend your time complaining about people camping bosses...

There are more important issues that needs fixing, such as:

Bugged passives and abilities in Vampire and Werewolf trees.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/75974/vampire-skill-tree-bugged#latest

and in actuality, there was no problem here. It only looked like a problem because there was a lot of people entering the shared dungeons triggering an boss spawn.

Squishy

Simple: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/78324/how-to-deal-with-the-infamous-bots#latest

If it's a bot, it won't deal with extra aggro well, then you can safely report it .

If it's a player, it'll deal with the extra mobs without a sweat.

I would actually suggest to add random add-on spawns around dungeons bosses. And I mean completly random. You could get a low level dummy mob, or another high level boss. Make it completly random in the point it spawns, and in the amount (within a reasonable amount).

I would also suggest to implement a resiction on looting if your level is 2 level higher than the dungeon, for all party members (meaning, if someone has a high level in the group tanking/dpsing the mob nobody in the group get xp or loot).

I would also add an obligation to get a quest within the dungeon (let's say near the entrance), to be able to get loot and xp from any kills in the dungeon. The quest could be repeatable non stop, but not offer anything if you are +2 level over the dungeon level.

That way, there'll be no more camping as they'll need to go back to the beginning of the dungeon to get any benefits... Let's see a bot script against that

SootyTX

Anoteros wrote: »

'Play the game your way BUT don't you dare try and farm/grind/pass your time how you want'
Yeah f2p in no time.

You don't seem to realise that the "it's an MMO therefore grind" is exactly what CAUSES F2P in the first place. F2P is driven by easy, repetitive, boring play, and easy, repetitive boring play causes games to go F2P because there's no real reason to subscribe, can get the same mindless, no challenge monster bashing in any one of a hundred MMOs out there already.

What makes me laugh is that so-called gamers defend an activity that is just as successfully carried out by bots - no skill anywhere any more.

Kudos to Zenimax for taking a step in the right direction and looking to create an experience for real gamers.

Darlantan

I agree bots need to be better deal with. For farmers... they will quit or move on and they can be everywhere at once... They are a nuisance but the worse and bots since they can't get tired and one player can have a lot more than one.

babylon

Only issue is now we'll see the bots out in the open world, taking all our mobs. And I will not be happy at all if ZOS then goes and puts some kind of loot drop timer (like GW2's diminishing returns) on mobs in the open world as well.

Nebb

Awesome news from the patch notes Maybe not the perfect way to deal with it, but good nontheless.

gharms

This fix is idiotic. I can see putting a per dungeon timer on bosses, but across ALL dungeons? That's really stupid. Apparently, the superminority who have never played an MMO have the ear of the devs. This game is hurtling towards F2P.....

JohnG

Question now is how long is this timer, 4 or 5 minutes it should not effect normal game play. 10 or 20 minutes and your going to have allot of enraged players when they go from one dungeon to another and don't get loot because of this timer.

Belrim

Here's an idea.. (or more like an dream that will never come true)

All accounts that have been ID'd as goldsellers or botters, would get flagged as such. And after that, whenever they would log-in, they would get phased into a layer that only has spammers and botters. This layer/phase would be completely shut out of layers where there are real players.

This way these spammers and botters would get to spam and bot like there was no tomorrow, without having to fear, that some pesky real player comes and interferes with their stuff.

LadyDestiny

Farming is farming, doesn't matter if you collect nodes or kill npc's over and over repeatedly. Works this way in every mmo I have ever played. Sorry but this is just stupid. I don't like the bots, I hate them with a passion and have reported numerous ones. Players actually not AFK farming a boss is not a big deal. That is how people get loot for crafting, money etc. Well, just have fun farming those upgrades out of the nodes or waiting for your hireling to bring back a high end item. ZOS needs to implement a better return and drop rate on this stuff then. Make random npc's drop more quality gear besides greens and better quest rewards besides green light gear and staffs. So far I have not received one purple item back from any of my hirelings, and yes they are higher than 1.

Anoteros

JohnG wrote: »

Question now is how long is this timer, 4 or 5 minutes it should not effect normal game play. 10 or 20 minutes and your going to have allot of enraged players when they go from one dungeon to another and don't get loot because of this timer.

Whoa if that's the case i am officially done with ESO.

Mehdizh

Only real why to fix a issue like this is to have active admin players, either they are community or a cheap company in India having invisible players running around looking at each zone and controlling who is a bot and who not by using admin.
1. bot running point to point admin drops a solid object on there path if they collide and don't jump or move round its a bot KICK
2. bots sitting on a spawn point make your admin spawn in any created on Boss location and see it they start hitting it, if yes then you got a auto reaction from a bot KICK.
3. Any player being online longer than 12 hours straight, flag and admin will check the player to see if its BOTS or someone with no life KICK, no KICK

We are talking about hiring about 10 plus active players, who only jobs is to jump around the dungeon's and spawn maps. They can have filters to say that if BOSS X spawn at time X and was killed in X ms then Flag and go check...

This company is earning a lot of money from this game, so they can at least invest to control the game once their developer team catch up that they can have software applications doing the control.

Plus you have a Report button for player, add a BOT so admin can see it jump in confirm it yes or no and carry on...

Now to end my point, something that is so simple to deploy, as I have written above means to me only a few things...
As a company we don't really care, as its only dum player who moan all the time and regardless will pay.
Not interested, just ignore as we are earning now a lot of cash, and if we have time in the end we may do something...

So be active and make an effort, as more and more I only see 1 comment about this game and that is BOT HEAVEN !

LadyDestiny

Exactly, they didn't say how long the timer was going to be. I was fine with all the other problems in the game. I have been patient and calm until they fix things, but now taking away something that was not broken was unrealistic.

SinisterJoint

I find all these tears of woe from the dungeon boss farmers mighty delicious! The people coming in here saying "this game is going f2p nao!!" clearly are only doing so because they are mad that they cant turn Netflix on and make gold all day. Because we all know that MMO's mean standing in one spot killing a name over and over and over and over is how they are supposed to be AMIRIGHT GUYS! *rolls eyes*

It's quite sad really because the only reason that this option was viable was because of the new players coming through the dungeons in the first place. How was this a not broken mechanic? It was, it's exploitive and a nuisance to anyone trying to at least enjoy the dungeon. Perfect fix for an imperfect system.. get out of the corner and go explore the massive world.

karldavy149b16_ESO

why is everyone moaning about camping ... its mmo 101 camp till your hearts content ... unless your one of the people that have no clue on how to do sufficient dps for your lvl u will get loot even if dead in 1 sec

the issue is people don't know how to perform ...

or there systems are so crappy that the boss is dead a long time befor u see it ...

once again
camping is part and parcels of mmos ... make it fun .. make camping possible ... in cyrodil who will fight for keeps .. not i ill be fighting for the camp !!!