The change of NB cloak will totally change this class, most fun part gone,

ShadowProc

Well that’s it folks. The constant nerf brigade with pitchforks have finally won. Zos does not realize what they are about to break. PvP is a balance with counters for everything. You are removing one of the top 5 counters with no adequate adjustments to make up for it. Players have built tankier and tankier because they could while still dealing tremendous damage. One of the few classes that could actually bring them down is being gutted. No not strong enough, being destroyed. The players on here celebrating mostly consist of streamers and 1vxers that abuse broken game mechanics and sets that allow maximum survivability and damage.
They complained because multiple nbs would take them down. To build for enough damage, 2 or 3 nbs were required to be basically glass to overcome thier tank at the cost of being melted if countered by a detect mechanism. The skill was surviving multiple players focusing you while detected. That was hard enough as it is.

It is laughable seeing players say with a straight face that their complaint is so much incoming damage and I easily survive it with my broken defensive mechanics but I cannot catch him to kill the pesky nb. Like what?

You win. This goes live I’m out. The hit and run playstyle was all that was left keeping me entertained. For all those of you happy enjoy even more of the player base moving on. Enjoy you 1vxers if you can actually find anything to farm as even more players are gone.

Make no mistake, a significant amount of players are about to leave. Have fun 1vxing guards. Because that’s where this game continues to head.

ArgoCye

The toggle is the real problem. It makes using the skill clumsy and is totally opposite to the character of the NB class. If the skill is being ‘overused’ then make it costlier. As it stands, I’ll just stop using it - the 10% damage buff to monsters in PvE is laughably stupid. Hamfisted toggle usage in PvP will just get you dead.

Nice work ZoS, you couldn’t just fill the pothole, you had to make a speedhump.

West93

ShadowProc wrote: »

Players have built tankier and tankier because they could while still dealing tremendous damage. One of the few classes that could actually bring them down is being gutted.

You mean do damage behind the safety of zerg on 24k hp glass cannon nightblade tarnished sniper, trying to bring down that templar/dk who is just trying to 1vx against greater odds and facing his opponents bravely face to face.

DrSlaughtr

I keep seeing this "perma-cloak" phrase. Who is perma-cloaking?

If I choose to blow 18k magicka to get out of a sticky situation, that leaves me with very little magicka to deal with anything else mag related, and even as I am currently (not historically) stamina focused, this still is a major issue as I am lost without a large heal or able to fire bow.

I have very high recovery with wretched and smoked bear. I cannot live in shadowy disguise no matter how much magicka I have and it would be stupid to to do even if I could.

You use it surgically. I need to get from point A to point B without being seen. Use it however many times you need to and exit.

This idea some people are shopping that this toggle will require "more skill" is hilariously silly. Toggles don't require more skill. Actively having to use a skill and knowing when to do it requires more skill. Having to know when to reapply shadowy before cooldown is over because you've been pulled out rather than just letting a toggle send you back into cloak requires more skill.

What this does is completely cripple resource management and removes player control from the skill itself. This 10% extra damage buff to monsters is nice for PvE world but yes, convenient it only applies there. So we're screaming that this was done for some subset of PvErs who, I guess, struggle with activating a skill with a 3 second timer, without any regard to the harm it will do to running a standard stealth-focused nightblade in PVP.

LonePirate

As someone who thinks the only way to disappear in PVP should be via the use of an Invisibility portion as they are available to all, the more they nerf Cloak, the better. NBs should play on the same level playing field as all of the other classes.

Theist_VII

LonePirate wrote: »

As someone who thinks the only way to disappear in PVP should be via the use of an Invisibility portion as they are available to all, the more they nerf Cloak, the better. NBs should play on the same level playing field as all of the other classes.

Should have just given everyone a form of Cloak through Scribing and kept the always active crit buff with guaranteed crit on Nightblade’s.

Oldaraness

LonePirate wrote: »

As someone who thinks the only way to disappear in PVP should be via the use of an Invisibility portion as they are available to all, the more they nerf Cloak, the better. NBs should play on the same level playing field as all of the other classes.

But this is the essence of the NB character... disappearing, staying hidden and sneaking is what characterizes the NB. You don't like it, of course, play another class and if you don't want to see a class like this change game, NBs have been there since the birth of ESO, already the fact that everyone can disappear is wrong then. Then potions should give everyone the opportunity to have the robustness of the Tanks, which does not exist today.

spartaxoxo

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The toggle also sucks for those who enjoyed stealth gameplay in PvE. Like, stealthing through heists and such is one of the most fun parts about Nightblades...

"Fun parts", you mean completely negating any sort of strategy in the heists? Nightblade trivializes the heist missions completely to the point where you don't even need to interact with any of the stealth mechanics during the missions.

No. I don't. Because you still had to avoid traps and guards. They do make it significantly easier since regular NPCs can't see you, but the non-invisibility "mechanic" for that is just waiting around while a slow moving NPC walks through molasses for a few seconds. Rather than having to wait, NBs can keep it moving while invisible.

Invisibility has been part of Elder Scrolls games for a long time and is legitimately more fun than waiting for many of us. A nightblade using cloak through heists is one of the things that makes this game a bit like the single player games.

And it's not like you actually get anything all that amazing from heists anyway.

necro_the_crafter

Nb have strong kiting tools outside of cloak actually, blur with its roll dodge cost reduction as well as shade to instantly teleport to, they just require more strategic thinking and not just mindlessly (sorry, very thoughtfully indeed, cuz you need to time it exactly 2.9s, otherwise its not effective, lol) mashing one panic button. And on top of that if you ever played meeleblade you know how hard it is to get out of trouble just by cloak, as you constatly being hit by aoes, reveals, etc.
Even in a state as it is on live cloak isnt the tool to get out immidiatly, you have to create distance, or break LoS first to make a room for cloak.

And, as it is on live, its suits most for one exact troll playstyle - a range proc bow/destro blade that gets out of stealth 40m away, shoots his anthelemirs/tarnished/winterbourne/maw procs and hides until they refresh. And being shot from nowhere for 20k+ damage from stealth is fun only for people that do so. And belive me no potions or skill-reveals in the world will help to deal with that.

But, I would like to see cloak mana regen enabled/mana cost removed while out of combat, so just cruising around invisable while you seek a target to strike wouldnt be on a timer. Cuz as a NB you should not exist for yours opponent until you reveal yourself, and once you did, you have to work for yours escape.

StaticWave

System_Data wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

NB is the single most annoying and obnoxious class in the game. I can’t count how many times a NB in full dmg gear hits me with Snipe and 3 procs from max range, only to immediately run away in Cloak when I chase after him. Detect potions can’t do much either if you are getting hit from multiple directions by multiple proc NBs.

Cloak needed this nerf. It was long overdue. Now NBs who crutched on Cloak will actually need to adapt and improve instead of relying on this single skill as their defense.

I love seeing used this argument all the time as if it's relevant. People asking for ramping costs on cloak as if it would do anything to stop them from sniping you from max range and running away. The same will apply here, NBs are still going to snipe you from max range and run away, they might idle a bit longer before getting back into combat, but so what the same problem is still there. If you had asked to nerf Snipe's 35m range, proc sets to be nerfed or certain passives to be toned down on NB, you would have an easier time fighting max range NBs.

With these changes on Cloak, i, playing a rangeblade, won't really have any issue at all doing the same thing as usual. Brawlerblades won't feel a thing. Casuals and gankers will and you'll just see less people playing PVP in a already dying PVP environment.

Btw, no one is forcing you to chase that max range NB and fail, pick your battles better.

It doesn't stop them, but it will force them to adapt to play around Cloak. You know, like how I and many others adapted to deal with multiple NB gankers by building tankier There's a reason why many people run around with 40k+ HP and high resistances. It's not fun being ganked for 25-30k damage from stealth.

Pick my battles? That's laughable. A fight between a NB ganker and a normal build is usually initiated by the NB ganker, not the other way around. After all, I'm not the one hiding in stealth picking who I'm sniping. I'm not forcing myself to chase the NB. The NB is intentionally revealing himself by targeting me and running away when I decide to chase him. If I turn my back around, he will continue to snipe me from max range until I do something about it. If you fail to kill someone while having all the advantage of stealth, you deserve to lose the fight, not spam Cloak and run away.

StaticWave

argonian37 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

NB is the single most annoying and obnoxious class in the game. I can’t count how many times a NB in full dmg gear hits me with Snipe and 3 procs from max range, only to immediately run away in Cloak when I chase after him. Detect potions can’t do much either if you are getting hit from multiple directions by multiple proc NBs.

Cloak needed this nerf. It was long overdue. Now NBs who crutched on Cloak will actually need to adapt and improve instead of relying on this single skill as their defense.

StaticWave wrote: »

NB is the single most annoying and obnoxious class in the game. I can’t count how many times a NB in full dmg gear hits me with Snipe and 3 procs from max range, only to immediately run away in Cloak when I chase after him. Detect potions can’t do much either if you are getting hit from multiple directions by multiple proc NBs.

Cloak needed this nerf. It was long overdue. Now NBs who crutched on Cloak will actually need to adapt and improve instead of relying on this single skill as their defense.

So if you cant kill multiple players that are attacking you with snipe they should nerf their class defining skill because the pots just dont instakill the snipers?
If you cant kill another player that attacks you devs should nerf an entire class?
Cyro is a PVP war battlefield, people are suppose to attack you and have the chance to escape. Is a war game with chances for everyone to succeed
I agree that in general ranged combat is much more easy than melee, without benefits to close combat, but thats not about class defining skills

Trust me if those NBs weren't crutching on Cloak I'd kill every single one of them.

It's like having 4 magsorcs poking you from max range then Streaking away 5x in a row. It's obnoxious and has no counter-play.

People complain about the meta being too tanky but conveniently ignore the toxic use of specific abilities that have very limited counter-play like Cloak.

ShadowProc

West93 wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Players have built tankier and tankier because they could while still dealing tremendous damage. One of the few classes that could actually bring them down is being gutted.

You mean do damage behind the safety of zerg on 24k hp glass cannon nightblade tarnished sniper, trying to bring down that templar/dk who is just trying to 1vx against greater odds and facing his opponents bravely face to face.

Yes I do mean that. I don’t want you not to have fun. When you accomplish your 1vx I am happy for you. I don’t get mad when I die.

I want everyone to play how they want. That is what they sell us on in this game. Why destroy a playstyle?

Why are things dying in this game a bad thing? There is no penalty for death Can jump right back into it.

You make a straw man argument. Facing his enemies face to face? Huh? We are literally talking about the rogue/assassin playstyle.

You are part of the problem. Players who complain for nerfs and don’t even understand the lore behind this genre and games like it that have come before.

ShadowProc

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

I keep seeing this "perma-cloak" phrase. Who is perma-cloaking?

If I choose to blow 18k magicka to get out of a sticky situation, that leaves me with very little magicka to deal with anything else mag related, and even as I am currently (not historically) stamina focused, this still is a major issue as I am lost without a large heal or able to fire bow.

I have very high recovery with wretched and smoked bear. I cannot live in shadowy disguise no matter how much magicka I have and it would be stupid to to do even if I could.

You use it surgically. I need to get from point A to point B without being seen. Use it however many times you need to and exit.

This idea some people are shopping that this toggle will require "more skill" is hilariously silly. Toggles don't require more skill. Actively having to use a skill and knowing when to do it requires more skill. Having to know when to reapply shadowy before cooldown is over because you've been pulled out rather than just letting a toggle send you back into cloak requires more skill.

What this does is completely cripple resource management and removes player control from the skill itself. This 10% extra damage buff to monsters is nice for PvE world but yes, convenient it only applies there. So we're screaming that this was done for some subset of PvErs who, I guess, struggle with activating a skill with a 3 second timer, without any regard to the harm it will do to running a standard stealth-focused nightblade in PVP.

Insightful. It is clear those happy for this change had a learn to play issue. It is extremely easy to kill a ganker. Even the “pro” players have no problem playing tackling and killing a ganker. They get mad because more than one of them can actually kill them. Not on all classes though. A well built and well played sorc/warden/and even arcanist is extremely hard to bring down while they are pressing a button or two then going completely offensive killing things.

But yes, destroy the one class that can put up enough burst damage with more than one player to actually break the tank.

BahometZ

Geez, some people are so slaved to classes and pvp brain-rotted. I see folks in here gnashing their teeth or gloating like some eternal battle has come to an end. Play other classes and understand that what happens to your enemy, happens to you. You all love uncovering blades and chasing them down, and then post on the forums about how cowardly they are. What're you going to do now? Dance around a tower with all the other 40k tanks?

Patch after patch of fumbling nightblade balance, I pity them, and glad I retired them to chest and node farming. It's a sad Frankenstein class, and each stitch sewn just makes it uglier.

ShadowProc

LonePirate wrote: »

As someone who thinks the only way to disappear in PVP should be via the use of an Invisibility portion as they are available to all, the more they nerf Cloak, the better. NBs should play on the same level playing field as all of the other classes.

Then make shields a potion as well. What are you even talking about? Smh

ShadowProc

StaticWave wrote: »

System_Data wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

NB is the single most annoying and obnoxious class in the game. I can’t count how many times a NB in full dmg gear hits me with Snipe and 3 procs from max range, only to immediately run away in Cloak when I chase after him. Detect potions can’t do much either if you are getting hit from multiple directions by multiple proc NBs.

Cloak needed this nerf. It was long overdue. Now NBs who crutched on Cloak will actually need to adapt and improve instead of relying on this single skill as their defense.

I love seeing used this argument all the time as if it's relevant. People asking for ramping costs on cloak as if it would do anything to stop them from sniping you from max range and running away. The same will apply here, NBs are still going to snipe you from max range and run away, they might idle a bit longer before getting back into combat, but so what the same problem is still there. If you had asked to nerf Snipe's 35m range, proc sets to be nerfed or certain passives to be toned down on NB, you would have an easier time fighting max range NBs.

With these changes on Cloak, i, playing a rangeblade, won't really have any issue at all doing the same thing as usual. Brawlerblades won't feel a thing. Casuals and gankers will and you'll just see less people playing PVP in a already dying PVP environment.

Btw, no one is forcing you to chase that max range NB and fail, pick your battles better.

It doesn't stop them, but it will force them to adapt to play around Cloak. You know, like how I and many others adapted to deal with multiple NB gankers by building tankier There's a reason why many people run around with 40k+ HP and high resistances. It's not fun being ganked for 25-30k damage from stealth.

Pick my battles? That's laughable. A fight between a NB ganker and a normal build is usually initiated by the NB ganker, not the other way around. After all, I'm not the one hiding in stealth picking who I'm sniping. I'm not forcing myself to chase the NB. The NB is intentionally revealing himself by targeting me and running away when I decide to chase him. If I turn my back around, he will continue to snipe me from max range until I do something about it. If you fail to kill someone while having all the advantage of stealth, you deserve to lose the fight, not spam Cloak and run away.

But bashing our heads against sorc shields while they are nuking us is fun? Of course sorc mains are rejoicing now. They just broke the balance of classes even more. You think there are a lot of sorcs now? Wait until next patch.

ShadowProc

StaticWave wrote: »

System_Data wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

NB is the single most annoying and obnoxious class in the game. I can’t count how many times a NB in full dmg gear hits me with Snipe and 3 procs from max range, only to immediately run away in Cloak when I chase after him. Detect potions can’t do much either if you are getting hit from multiple directions by multiple proc NBs.

Cloak needed this nerf. It was long overdue. Now NBs who crutched on Cloak will actually need to adapt and improve instead of relying on this single skill as their defense.

I love seeing used this argument all the time as if it's relevant. People asking for ramping costs on cloak as if it would do anything to stop them from sniping you from max range and running away. The same will apply here, NBs are still going to snipe you from max range and run away, they might idle a bit longer before getting back into combat, but so what the same problem is still there. If you had asked to nerf Snipe's 35m range, proc sets to be nerfed or certain passives to be toned down on NB, you would have an easier time fighting max range NBs.

With these changes on Cloak, i, playing a rangeblade, won't really have any issue at all doing the same thing as usual. Brawlerblades won't feel a thing. Casuals and gankers will and you'll just see less people playing PVP in a already dying PVP environment.

Btw, no one is forcing you to chase that max range NB and fail, pick your battles better.

It doesn't stop them, but it will force them to adapt to play around Cloak. You know, like how I and many others adapted to deal with multiple NB gankers by building tankier There's a reason why many people run around with 40k+ HP and high resistances. It's not fun being ganked for 25-30k damage from stealth.

Pick my battles? That's laughable. A fight between a NB ganker and a normal build is usually initiated by the NB ganker, not the other way around. After all, I'm not the one hiding in stealth picking who I'm sniping. I'm not forcing myself to chase the NB. The NB is intentionally revealing himself by targeting me and running away when I decide to chase him. If I turn my back around, he will continue to snipe me from max range until I do something about it. If you fail to kill someone while having all the advantage of stealth, you deserve to lose the fight, not spam Cloak and run away.

So your admitting you will wither win that fight or the nb getsaway. Cool. You consider the nb getting away a loss? Smh. You won the engagement.

And I call [snip] you have any problem tackling the nb. With the kit sorcs have right now I am throwing the flag. You don’t even need pots. Streak is a direct counter.

Zoe, if these changes go live then there needs to be nerfs in other areas to compensate such as potion detection radius, streak and other aoes not killing nbs from cloak.

Revert this change and put some thought into what areas need to be nerfed to compensate.

[edited for profanity bypass]

ShadowProc

StaticWave wrote: »

argonian37 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

NB is the single most annoying and obnoxious class in the game. I can’t count how many times a NB in full dmg gear hits me with Snipe and 3 procs from max range, only to immediately run away in Cloak when I chase after him. Detect potions can’t do much either if you are getting hit from multiple directions by multiple proc NBs.

Cloak needed this nerf. It was long overdue. Now NBs who crutched on Cloak will actually need to adapt and improve instead of relying on this single skill as their defense.

StaticWave wrote: »

NB is the single most annoying and obnoxious class in the game. I can’t count how many times a NB in full dmg gear hits me with Snipe and 3 procs from max range, only to immediately run away in Cloak when I chase after him. Detect potions can’t do much either if you are getting hit from multiple directions by multiple proc NBs.

Cloak needed this nerf. It was long overdue. Now NBs who crutched on Cloak will actually need to adapt and improve instead of relying on this single skill as their defense.

So if you cant kill multiple players that are attacking you with snipe they should nerf their class defining skill because the pots just dont instakill the snipers?
If you cant kill another player that attacks you devs should nerf an entire class?
Cyro is a PVP war battlefield, people are suppose to attack you and have the chance to escape. Is a war game with chances for everyone to succeed
I agree that in general ranged combat is much more easy than melee, without benefits to close combat, but thats not about class defining skills

Trust me if those NBs weren't crutching on Cloak I'd kill every single one of them.

It's like having 4 magsorcs poking you from max range then Streaking away 5x in a row. It's obnoxious and has no counter-play.

People complain about the meta being too tanky but conveniently ignore the toxic use of specific abilities that have very limited counter-play like Cloak.

Omg. And like streak. You are literally saying it in the same post.

And to be honest when 5 sorcs poke me and I get away, wait for it, I CONSIDER IT A WIN.

Turtle_Bot

ShadowProc wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

As someone who thinks the only way to disappear in PVP should be via the use of an Invisibility portion as they are available to all, the more they nerf Cloak, the better. NBs should play on the same level playing field as all of the other classes.

Then make shields a potion as well. What are you even talking about? Smh

What are you even talking about? Smh...

There already exists multiple globally available shield skills in ESO.

Scribing alone has 3 that are extremely strong (wield soul, soul burst, contingency) that also come with bonus heals (or other effects to choose from) and even get additional named buffs.

There's also the light armor skill and healing ward (that also comes with a heal) that are globally available to every single class for those who don't have access to scribing.

What equivalent is there for cloak?
- Vamp sprint - 3 second ramp time (cannot be spammed), can't use any abilities while its active or it breaks, can't even use core combat (block/crouch/etc) and it constantly bugs out and fails because the terrain is so inconsistent that a tiny pebble interrupts sprint.
- Potions - 67% downtime (i.e. cannot be spammed) with a massive 45 second hard cooldown that also prevents the use of other more important potions.
- Crouch - this is not invis and everyone knows it.

2 "options" for "invis", neither of which can be spammed, both of which also actually follow the standardized downsides that invis has in every single other game (either a long cooldown or a long fade/ramp time). Compared to 5+ non-class options for shields, all of which can be spammed, 3 of which also come with very strong secondary effects.

ShadowProc

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

As someone who thinks the only way to disappear in PVP should be via the use of an Invisibility portion as they are available to all, the more they nerf Cloak, the better. NBs should play on the same level playing field as all of the other classes.

Then make shields a potion as well. What are you even talking about? Smh

What are you even talking about? Smh...

There already exists multiple globally available shield skills in ESO.

Scribing alone has 3 that are extremely strong (wield soul, soul burst, contingency) that also come with bonus heals (or other effects to choose from) and even get additional named buffs.

There's also the light armor skill and healing ward (that also comes with a heal) that are globally available to every single class for those who don't have access to scribing.

What equivalent is there for cloak?
- Vamp sprint - 3 second ramp time (cannot be spammed), can't use any abilities while its active or it breaks, can't even use core combat (block/crouch/etc) and it constantly bugs out and fails because the terrain is so inconsistent that a tiny pebble interrupts sprint.
- Potions - 67% downtime (i.e. cannot be spammed) with a massive 45 second hard cooldown that also prevents the use of other more important potions.
- Crouch - this is not invis and everyone knows it.

2 "options" for "invis", neither of which can be spammed, both of which also actually follow the standardized downsides that invis has in every single other game (either a long cooldown or a long fade/ramp time). Compared to 5+ non-class options for shields, all of which can be spammed, 3 of which also come with very strong secondary effects.

Exactly. It’s a playstyle that is being destroyed. The cloak nerfs have been going on for 10 years by the 1vx crowd. Because they want to be able to kill everything. God forbid someone fails to kill you and gets away.

bladenick

ShadowProc wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

As someone who thinks the only way to disappear in PVP should be via the use of an Invisibility portion as they are available to all, the more they nerf Cloak, the better. NBs should play on the same level playing field as all of the other classes.

Then make shields a potion as well. What are you even talking about? Smh

What are you even talking about? Smh...

There already exists multiple globally available shield skills in ESO.

Scribing alone has 3 that are extremely strong (wield soul, soul burst, contingency) that also come with bonus heals (or other effects to choose from) and even get additional named buffs.

There's also the light armor skill and healing ward (that also comes with a heal) that are globally available to every single class for those who don't have access to scribing.

What equivalent is there for cloak?
- Vamp sprint - 3 second ramp time (cannot be spammed), can't use any abilities while its active or it breaks, can't even use core combat (block/crouch/etc) and it constantly bugs out and fails because the terrain is so inconsistent that a tiny pebble interrupts sprint.
- Potions - 67% downtime (i.e. cannot be spammed) with a massive 45 second hard cooldown that also prevents the use of other more important potions.
- Crouch - this is not invis and everyone knows it.

2 "options" for "invis", neither of which can be spammed, both of which also actually follow the standardized downsides that invis has in every single other game (either a long cooldown or a long fade/ramp time). Compared to 5+ non-class options for shields, all of which can be spammed, 3 of which also come with very strong secondary effects.

Exactly. It’s a playstyle that is being destroyed. The cloak nerfs have been going on for 10 years by the 1vx crowd. Because they want to be able to kill everything. God forbid someone fails to kill you and gets away.

As my undserstanding, the dev implement this definitly on purpose for new 2 side BG, they don't want perm cloak NB in that BG play hide and seek.

I see what ever they will implement this change, and maybe compensation for other skill later... whatever, the perm cloak play style forever gone... I am Mag melee blade build focus on mag recover to get perm cloak...the change totaly mesh up my playstyle and build..

I will continue ESO with other class. that all...

Turtle_Bot

It's not a playstyle being destroyed (the same stupid nonsense claim made by the same 10 NB mains that has been made every time even the tiniest thing is suggested to balance NB).

Cloak nerfs have not been going on for 10 years straight. The past 2 years (outside of specifically detect pots (which was a needed counter balance due to how strong cloak was about to get) have been nothing but buffs to cloak (major crit on either bar, removal of almost every soft counter in the game, positional desync that enables extreme abuse of cloak via denial of counters) and before that was fixing up interactions cloak had, that cloak never should have had in the first place (DoT suppression, cleanse, etc).

1vXers don't mind people getting away (despite claims to the contrary), what they don't like is the constant sucker punches every few seconds from a foe that cannot be punched back that have become obnoxiously easy and far too common due to how braindead simple it has become.

Also, god forbid someone who tries to kill you with constant sucker punches be forced to either actually commit to that fight or put in proper effort into making their escape.

Anifaas

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The toggle also sucks for those who enjoyed stealth gameplay in PvE. Like, stealthing through heists and such is one of the most fun parts about Nightblades...

"Fun parts", you mean completely negating any sort of strategy in the heists? Nightblade trivializes the heist missions completely to the point where you don't even need to interact with any of the stealth mechanics during the missions.

How awful? A stealth based characters doing trivial, stealthie things! What next? Tanky characters being good at tanking? Someone quick, nerf DKs and Necros before they get out of control.

StaticWave

ShadowProc wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

System_Data wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

NB is the single most annoying and obnoxious class in the game. I can’t count how many times a NB in full dmg gear hits me with Snipe and 3 procs from max range, only to immediately run away in Cloak when I chase after him. Detect potions can’t do much either if you are getting hit from multiple directions by multiple proc NBs.

Cloak needed this nerf. It was long overdue. Now NBs who crutched on Cloak will actually need to adapt and improve instead of relying on this single skill as their defense.

I love seeing used this argument all the time as if it's relevant. People asking for ramping costs on cloak as if it would do anything to stop them from sniping you from max range and running away. The same will apply here, NBs are still going to snipe you from max range and run away, they might idle a bit longer before getting back into combat, but so what the same problem is still there. If you had asked to nerf Snipe's 35m range, proc sets to be nerfed or certain passives to be toned down on NB, you would have an easier time fighting max range NBs.

With these changes on Cloak, i, playing a rangeblade, won't really have any issue at all doing the same thing as usual. Brawlerblades won't feel a thing. Casuals and gankers will and you'll just see less people playing PVP in a already dying PVP environment.

Btw, no one is forcing you to chase that max range NB and fail, pick your battles better.

It doesn't stop them, but it will force them to adapt to play around Cloak. You know, like how I and many others adapted to deal with multiple NB gankers by building tankier There's a reason why many people run around with 40k+ HP and high resistances. It's not fun being ganked for 25-30k damage from stealth.

Pick my battles? That's laughable. A fight between a NB ganker and a normal build is usually initiated by the NB ganker, not the other way around. After all, I'm not the one hiding in stealth picking who I'm sniping. I'm not forcing myself to chase the NB. The NB is intentionally revealing himself by targeting me and running away when I decide to chase him. If I turn my back around, he will continue to snipe me from max range until I do something about it. If you fail to kill someone while having all the advantage of stealth, you deserve to lose the fight, not spam Cloak and run away.

But bashing our heads against sorc shields while they are nuking us is fun? Of course sorc mains are rejoicing now. They just broke the balance of classes even more. You think there are a lot of sorcs now? Wait until next patch.

Trust me, I know how broken Sorc is, and I’m a
Sorc main. In fact, I made this thread in the PvP Combat section which received a lot of attention for several months straight:



It is due to this thread and several other similar threads that ZOS decided to reduce some of the Ward heal tooltip in U44.

I’m being very objective here when I say Cloak needed a nerf. You have no idea how annoying it is to deal with a Cloak spamming NB, and that’s with slotting a detect potion already.

My point still stands. I firmly believe that any NB who initiated a fight from stealth and failed to kill the target should not have an easy and spammable escape option. It’s not healthy for the game.

Afterip

Sorry nb, but i sooo love this changes. And if hardened ward will be nerfed a bit more ill start enjoying pvp!

StaticWave

ShadowProc wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

argonian37 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

NB is the single most annoying and obnoxious class in the game. I can’t count how many times a NB in full dmg gear hits me with Snipe and 3 procs from max range, only to immediately run away in Cloak when I chase after him. Detect potions can’t do much either if you are getting hit from multiple directions by multiple proc NBs.

Cloak needed this nerf. It was long overdue. Now NBs who crutched on Cloak will actually need to adapt and improve instead of relying on this single skill as their defense.

StaticWave wrote: »

NB is the single most annoying and obnoxious class in the game. I can’t count how many times a NB in full dmg gear hits me with Snipe and 3 procs from max range, only to immediately run away in Cloak when I chase after him. Detect potions can’t do much either if you are getting hit from multiple directions by multiple proc NBs.

Cloak needed this nerf. It was long overdue. Now NBs who crutched on Cloak will actually need to adapt and improve instead of relying on this single skill as their defense.

So if you cant kill multiple players that are attacking you with snipe they should nerf their class defining skill because the pots just dont instakill the snipers?
If you cant kill another player that attacks you devs should nerf an entire class?
Cyro is a PVP war battlefield, people are suppose to attack you and have the chance to escape. Is a war game with chances for everyone to succeed
I agree that in general ranged combat is much more easy than melee, without benefits to close combat, but thats not about class defining skills

Trust me if those NBs weren't crutching on Cloak I'd kill every single one of them.

It's like having 4 magsorcs poking you from max range then Streaking away 5x in a row. It's obnoxious and has no counter-play.

People complain about the meta being too tanky but conveniently ignore the toxic use of specific abilities that have very limited counter-play like Cloak.

Omg. And like streak. You are literally saying it in the same post.

And to be honest when 5 sorcs poke me and I get away, wait for it, I CONSIDER IT A WIN.

Yes, I am admitting that it’s aids to be poked constantly by a Sorc that can literally Streak away at will.

But you know what? There is a ramping cost penalty for Streak. Gap closers and snares also greatly counter Streak. Movement speed being widely available has also made Streak super easy to deal with. I’m currently in 5 heavy and I can sprint after a Streaking Sorc without breaking a sweat.

The only thing keeping Streak even remotely decent is its ability to traverse uneven terrain. Streaking from one rock to another or Streaking from low ground to high ground are where Streak shines the best, not in open field.

In fact, there is a NB 1vXer on PC NA whom I frequently run into (@HustlerPro) that could literally kite 6-7 people around a keep for an extended period of time. He is a lot squishier than me but his usage of Cloak, good self heals, and movement speed is what allows him to survive. In those scenarios, I wish I had Cloak instead of Streak.

TechMaybeHic

So many overreactions to this change.

You can crouch while hitting cloak then untiggle and stay stealth without it costing much.

You can still activate it, then attack to buff your next ability

You actually might be able to pick pocket easier as you have until your nag runs out rather than 3 seconds.

If you are just using it to bypass NPCs you can build into sustaining it

Only thing you can't do is spam it recklessly to mag roll dodge and evade players in detection range that are actively looking for you. And that probably should be harder to get away with.

Im trying to find the scenario other than that where it's a real problem.

System_Data

StaticWave wrote: »

It doesn't stop them, but it will force them to adapt to play around Cloak. You know, like how I and many others adapted to deal with multiple NB gankers by building tankier There's a reason why many people run around with 40k+ HP and high resistances. It's not fun being ganked for 25-30k damage from stealth.

Pick my battles? That's laughable. A fight between a NB ganker and a normal build is usually initiated by the NB ganker, not the other way around. After all, I'm not the one hiding in stealth picking who I'm sniping. I'm not forcing myself to chase the NB. The NB is intentionally revealing himself by targeting me and running away when I decide to chase him. If I turn my back around, he will continue to snipe me from max range until I do something about it. If you fail to kill someone while having all the advantage of stealth, you deserve to lose the fight, not spam Cloak and run away.

All they will adapt is just wait longer for their resources to return. Tank/brawlerblades and rangeblades won't be affected. Only casuals and gankers will be affected by this change, but hey i guess you just want easy pickings. I get hit by random damage from ranged as well, but i don't get emotional about needing to kill some far off NB and it's not like you can streak away from the NB. Failing to kill from stealth doesn't mean anything. You just decided that they deserve to lose, it sounds like you have an ego.

The reason why so many people run around with 40k+ HP and high resistances is because they can, while also being able to do a good amount of damage. If ZOS deleted NBs, you'd still see people with those builds. Ballgroups are also a reason why anyone would want to have those tankbuilds anyways as well.

At the end of the day, i want NBs to be nerfed, just not slapped with a ramping costs on cloak or this change because it's not a really effective way of curbing down their effectiveness. I will, however, enjoy not spamming cloak, cruise through, idle and repeat though lol.

Vaqual

Whatever will come with the next PTS notes, the entertainment value of this change is already AAA gaming.

JWillCHS

After playing this game since 2014 things like this don’t surprise me at all. And I’m not saying it’s a bad thing. Templars are still asking for more burst through skills like Power of the Light or reworking the damage on Jabs. But there are still players out there who have adjusted and still main the class. Those who don’t have moved on to easier play-styles(which Templar inherently is the easiest class; the crazy damage output is hard to achieve today). People thought Puncturing Sweeps was too front loaded and even today they still think that.

What ZoS and most MMORPGs do is create the “flavor of the season” where a handful of classes truly shine. And Templar had a really great moment especially when there was a DoT meta with having the best cleanse in the game.

All this year Sorc and Nightblade have been the class that I find most players to be enjoying. Whether players advocated for the nerf of Cloak or not; it was going to happen anyway. And trust me, the Sorcerer is going to get it too. Maybe not today but it will happen. And eventually Necromancer isn’t going to be at the bottom and everyone will want to play that again.

For anyone not playing NB or Sorc; you can see the popularity. Even in BGs they’re everywhere. And one of the most popular(I’m not going to say problematic) play styles is the Nightblade with a high up time on cloak. They probably just want to adjust the how cloak is used in a combat situation where you intermittently have to use it in a “brawling” situation along with things like Shade. I think for most players it might be clunky; but there’s not a lot of people strategically brawling on Nightblade with cloak because it’s so much easier to achieve results with other play styles. It looks like ZoS does not want that anymore.

Has anyone here making an argument against these changes extensively tested it with their own current play style on the PTS? I brawl on a Nightblade and for me the changes aren’t bad. I still use Cloak with Shade but only as a tool to move around my opponent as I frequently attack. It’s been a long time since I played a bow build or always looking for that one BIG hit coming out of Cloak before disappearing again.