The change of NB cloak will totally change this class, most fun part gone,

Jaimeh

IncultaWolf wrote: »

All the nightblades who crutched on shadowy disguise should just go swap to magsorc with hardened ward and streak if you are afraid to die

You can say that about any class though... DKs who crutch on X, sorcs who crutch on Y, and so on. The thing is this change kills an entire playstyle that affects both PvE and PvP. They could have increased the cost upon cast, if they wanted to nerf it, but this change fundamentally changes how the skill works, and renders it obsolete. Imagine going on a thieving/killing spree with a hunge bounty and having to micoro-manage the toggle. There's so many counters to ganking (which, btw, is not limited to NBs), but people complained enough so that ZOS finally gave in and decide to delete one of the most class-defining skills of NBs. I really hope this will not go to live @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno.

Aurielle

Bahahaha, look at this:

https://youtu.be/DXQX7XKqKdM

Necrotech_Master

Jaimeh wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

All the nightblades who crutched on shadowy disguise should just go swap to magsorc with hardened ward and streak if you are afraid to die

You can say that about any class though... DKs who crutch on X, sorcs who crutch on Y, and so on. The thing is this change kills an entire playstyle that affects both PvE and PvP. They could have increased the cost upon cast, if they wanted to nerf it, but this change fundamentally changes how the skill works, and renders it obsolete. Imagine going on a thieving/killing spree with a hunge bounty and having to micoro-manage the toggle. There's so many counters to ganking (which, btw, is not limited to NBs), but people complained enough so that ZOS finally gave in and decide to delete one of the most class-defining skills of NBs. I really hope this will not go to live ZOS_BrianWheeler ZOS_GinaBruno.

in pve, the mag cost will be pretty easy to negate/counter

the base mag cost will be like 3200, or 1600 per second equivalent drain

darloc brae alone is like 660 mag restore every second while crouching, a few cost reductions or another set which directly restores mag and it will be sustainable for long periods of time

non infused cost reduction glyph is -203
infused increases this by 60%, putting it to 324

3x non infused cost reduction is -609
3x infused cost reduction is -972

3200 - 972 = 2228, or 1114 cost per second drain

darloc brae is 660 gain per second when crouching

final cost overall drain would be like 500 per second

this is not including gear bonuses (light armor cost reduction, maximum -14% cost), or racial bonuses to reduced skill costs

basically have to just treat it like old mist form (which did the same thing, cost mag and reduced recov to 0)

edit: added numbers

argonian37

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

argonian37 wrote: »

We cant ask to have jack of all trades solutions for every type of player, because that is not balance… thats boring.

Yeah, it is weird. ZOS made very strong hard counters and somehow, some people simply refuse to use it & instead complain. I mean it is silly to have countermeasures lying around & just ignore them.

- Sir ! Enemy armor incoming ! We have some bazookas. Can we use them ?
- No, withdraw to the nearest outpost. I will call high command to nerf the tank's armor so we can use our MGs. It will be easier.

I mean this is the kind of picture I am getting out of this whole situation. And tbh... it is kinda dangerous for this game as a whole.

I guess maybe it has something to do with some kind of society aspect and how people over time got more & more pretentious ? Idk.

But I do agree - ESO has this rock - paper - scissors aspect and dumbing down the game will just make it more boring.

Exactly. There are good countermeasures, come on people use them. And yes you know you have to make choices for your build… like yes, I need to slot a gap closer to fight against sorcs, and that brings that I use a slot for that and not for another skill. Thats the definition of a game: choice, build what you think is better for certain situations and be aware that you will be uncovered for some other situations. You cant expect to have a complete toolkit and be ready for every situation and type of player in the game without leaving you unready for some certain situations.
Sorry guys, part of the game is being killed and you have a menu of options to help you to avoid that… you have to choose the ones that will work it out better and accept that you cant choose everyone and because of that sometimes you will be killed.
Whats the next whining? Asking for an immovability-detect-speed-sustain-burst-crit potion for everyone that you can buy with AP that will make this game unplayable?

Jaimeh

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

All the nightblades who crutched on shadowy disguise should just go swap to magsorc with hardened ward and streak if you are afraid to die

You can say that about any class though... DKs who crutch on X, sorcs who crutch on Y, and so on. The thing is this change kills an entire playstyle that affects both PvE and PvP. They could have increased the cost upon cast, if they wanted to nerf it, but this change fundamentally changes how the skill works, and renders it obsolete. Imagine going on a thieving/killing spree with a hunge bounty and having to micoro-manage the toggle. There's so many counters to ganking (which, btw, is not limited to NBs), but people complained enough so that ZOS finally gave in and decide to delete one of the most class-defining skills of NBs. I really hope this will not go to live ZOS_BrianWheeler ZOS_GinaBruno.

in pve, the mag cost will be pretty easy to negate/counter

the base mag cost will be like 3200, or 1600 per second equivalent drain

darloc brae alone is like 660 mag restore every second while crouching, a few cost reductions or another set which directly restores mag and it will be sustainable for long periods of time

non infused cost reduction glyph is -203
infused increases this by 60%, putting it to 324

3x non infused cost reduction is -609
3x infused cost reduction is -972

3200 - 972 = 2228, or 1114 cost per second drain

darloc brae is 660 gain per second when crouching

final cost overall drain would be like 500 per second

this is not including gear bonuses (light armor cost reduction, maximum -14% cost), or racial bonuses to reduced skill costs

basically have to just treat it like old mist form (which did the same thing, cost mag and reduced recov to 0)

edit: added numbers

The trade-off is though that you have to craft an entire build around just using one skill (and semi-successfully, at that). That build will only service cloaking, not fighting and so on. And it's not just thieving; on a magblade, you don't have to be boxed in a specialized build every time you want to use cloak, say to pass on some mobs and fight a boss, nor would you have to deal with a very clunky toggle, you could just slot the skill as is and go. How many people will have that specialized build equipped on every NB, how many of them will have access to addons to swap to it fast when they want to cloak, and then to swap back to their usual set-up when they want to do combat... It makes using the skill so undesirable, that you basically won't use it.

Tcholl

I agree with this line of argument, but I don't see the same reasoning when considering other classes tbh.

argonian37

Tcholl wrote: »

argonian37 wrote: »

Maybe i’m biased. I dont know… I play in mac. As a nb, when im fighting a nb i select in the wheel the detect potion, use it and proceed to fight. Actually, 90% of nbs are not prepared for that, so is not only a counteraction. Like when you use that potion you turn over the fight. You now become the agresor and the nb cant operate their main defensive skill.
Is that so difficult in other platforms? Is easier to do that than to time a combo to kill a dk for example… I dont get whats the problem with using that potions. Yes, to fight nbs you have to slot that pots, to kill a tanky dk you have to do a combo, to kill a streaking sorc you have to slot a gap closer. Every class has its advantages and countertactics… like… is fair game. We cant ask to have jack of all trades solutions for every type of player, because that is not balance… thats boring.

That used to be true, now DKs are not nearly as tanky as Sorcs or tankier than any other class to be honest. All the classes have lost identity and gameplay at some degree. NBs are just part of the club. Many players complaining here have asked for nerfs to other classes that had the same results to other ppl gameplay or style. What goes around, comes around.

Sorry, but I dont think that this is the right way to think about this issue. Class identity is a good thing about this game, we shouldnt be asking for nerfs and a boring hibridization for every class with a “hehe now s your turn, lol” approach, because when dks identity is lost, we main nbs lose too in the big picture.
You know, if cloak is unusable it will be more easy for you to kill nbs, but in the long term the game will be less appealing and boring. For you too

ioResult

Jsmalls wrote: »

Y'all know siphoning strikes lines up perfectly with the cost per 2 seconds right?

You can still Perma stealth with a heal that doesn't pop invis. And if you have a potion up you can definitely stay stealthed for 30+ seconds easily.

All the Sorcs thought the world was ending when they changed Ward from 20 seconds to 6 seconds. Everyone adapted.

Cloak has been overdue for an adjustment.

No you can’t perma-cloak. Stop saying you can when you havent even used it in PTS.

You get pulled out of cloak and it’s still running and you can’t defend yourself because you have no Mag left.

Tcholl

argonian37 wrote: »

Tcholl wrote: »

argonian37 wrote: »

Maybe i’m biased. I dont know… I play in mac. As a nb, when im fighting a nb i select in the wheel the detect potion, use it and proceed to fight. Actually, 90% of nbs are not prepared for that, so is not only a counteraction. Like when you use that potion you turn over the fight. You now become the agresor and the nb cant operate their main defensive skill.
Is that so difficult in other platforms? Is easier to do that than to time a combo to kill a dk for example… I dont get whats the problem with using that potions. Yes, to fight nbs you have to slot that pots, to kill a tanky dk you have to do a combo, to kill a streaking sorc you have to slot a gap closer. Every class has its advantages and countertactics… like… is fair game. We cant ask to have jack of all trades solutions for every type of player, because that is not balance… thats boring.

That used to be true, now DKs are not nearly as tanky as Sorcs or tankier than any other class to be honest. All the classes have lost identity and gameplay at some degree. NBs are just part of the club. Many players complaining here have asked for nerfs to other classes that had the same results to other ppl gameplay or style. What goes around, comes around.

Sorry, but I dont think that this is the right way to think about this issue. Class identity is a good thing about this game, we shouldnt be asking for nerfs and a boring hibridization for every class with a “hehe now s your turn, lol” approach, because when dks identity is lost, we main nbs lose too in the big picture.
You know, if cloak is unusable it will be more easy for you to kill nbs, but in the long term the game will be less appealing and boring. For you too

Hey, I have never asked for this or any other nerfs related to this patch other than defend the Hardened Ward one. I am not even defending the change to cloak or saying it should or should not make to the live servers.

Yes, class identity was very important for me too. I main a DK and know the feeling believe me. I am just pointing out that many players were asking for nerfs to other classes, who lost their identity and it has come around to the NB. I don't think it is good but it is certainly in line with what has happened to DKs for example. Of course, you and other will say the DKs were the ones that needed nerfs not NBs and vice versa, but again what goes around comes around. Maybe, we should ALL think twice before asking for any nerfs. I only defend the Hardened Ward nerf as an exception for reasons I have explained in other posts.

ioResult

Ash_ShadowDragon wrote: »

IMO as a NB main in PvP, its an interesting change and the only nerf I see is when its used as a get away tool which is typically done by gankers.... so a nerf to gankers, but doesnt really effect 1vX; yea Im for it.

You’re not a Nightblade main. You’re a brawler. You play on a Tankblade, the one and only playstyle for Nightblade that ZOS seems to want to allow.

You can take your same Rallying Crutch build and play it on any class.

Play it on the Sorc carry class now and you’ll kill more people and never die.

Shield, Streak & repeat till Ulti-dump. Two thumb playstyle on a controller. EZ Mode PvP.

IncultaWolf

Jaimeh wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

All the nightblades who crutched on shadowy disguise should just go swap to magsorc with hardened ward and streak if you are afraid to die

You can say that about any class though... DKs who crutch on X, sorcs who crutch on Y, and so on. The thing is this change kills an entire playstyle that affects both PvE and PvP. They could have increased the cost upon cast, if they wanted to nerf it, but this change fundamentally changes how the skill works, and renders it obsolete. Imagine going on a thieving/killing spree with a hunge bounty and having to micoro-manage the toggle. There's so many counters to ganking (which, btw, is not limited to NBs), but people complained enough so that ZOS finally gave in and decide to delete one of the most class-defining skills of NBs. I really hope this will not go to live @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno.

what do necromancers crutch on?

IncultaWolf

Jaavaa wrote: »

No one ask for this change 🤣 but ty zos 🙈🙈🙈

I actually asked for this change in my thread https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/651463/nightblade-changes-good-but-more-is-needed/p1

ioResult

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

There are sets which grants generation when you crouch so you can have it, but you have to built around it - so you must choose betweeen more invisibility or damage which is healthy.

I love how people who don’t actually play Nightblade outside of maybe. Rallying Crutch brawler are telling those of us who use the ability literally every day that it’s OK as it is.

There’s no good visual cue in the game to know if it’s on or off.

You get pulled out of stealth and it’s still ticking even though it’s not doing what it’s designed to do.

Using it sparingly as all good Nightlbades do, timing when and how to use it to maintain Mag, is impossible to do with the toggle mechanic. I’ve spent time on PTS trying to use it

In the presence of ball groups the toggle off will FAIL.

It is only inexperienced Nightblades who spam cloak thinking it’s going to save them. So saying the toggle is to help new Nightblades is disingenuous at BEST.

You all got your tanky meta and ridiculous shields in the last two patches. It’s nearly impossible for most NBs to solo kill an experienced PvPer in other classes like Sorc & DK now, not to mention “heal to full instantly” Wardens.

Now you all want to make it impossible to use cloak effectively.

We’ll just all turn our PvP NBs into unikillable Tank/Heals and walk around in a MegaZerg, and stand on the flags of any keep you are all trying to take. No more PvDoor in Cyrodiil. OK if that’s what you all want, that’s what we’ll do - without paying a dime for ESO Plus or crowns. That’s where this ends up.

Amottica

While the cost per second is technically slightly higher, it is unlikely a NB time refreshes the skill perfectly. As long as they are not low on magicka they can stay invisible for a decent period of time and can probably consume a potion to get some extra juice.

Ultimately, this could be more helpful to the less experienced NB and give them a greater advantage against players who do not try to pull them out of the cloak. Those that successfully pull NBs out of cloak with the current design should experience the same success.

We will see.

Tcholl

ioResult wrote: »

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

There are sets which grants generation when you crouch so you can have it, but you have to built around it - so you must choose betweeen more invisibility or damage which is healthy.

I love how people who don’t actually play Nightblade outside of maybe. Rallying Crutch brawler are telling those of us who use the ability literally every day that it’s OK as it is.

There’s no good visual cue in the game to know if it’s on or off.

You get pulled out of stealth and it’s still ticking even though it’s not doing what it’s designed to do.

Using it sparingly as all good Nightlbades do, timing when and how to use it to maintain Mag, is impossible to do with the toggle mechanic. I’ve spent time on PTS trying to use it

In the presence of ball groups the toggle off will FAIL.

It is only inexperienced Nightblades who spam cloak thinking it’s going to save them. So saying the toggle is to help new Nightblades is disingenuous at BEST.

You all got your tanky meta and ridiculous shields in the last two patches. It’s nearly impossible for most NBs to solo kill an experienced PvPer in other classes like Sorc & DK now, not to mention “heal to full instantly” Wardens.

Now you all want to make it impossible to use cloak effectively.

We’ll just all turn our PvP NBs into unikillable Tank/Heals and walk around in a MegaZerg, and stand on the flags of any keep you are all trying to take. No more PvDoor in Cyrodiil. OK if that’s what you all want, that’s what we’ll do - without paying a dime for ESO Plus or crowns. That’s where this ends up.

Why you all keep calling out DKs and stating they are hard to kill? You cannot see that the class is average at best now and is not tankier than any other class? This behaviour is why ZOS nerfed the DKs and want to nerf cloak now. If you believe DKs are stronger than NBs on our current patch, you have not been playing PvP. Also, if you think you are going to call out every class and will have yours untouched, will not happen either.

xDeusEJRx

bladenick wrote: »

General impact: it force NB to expose in blank sight and only cast shadow disguise when you want guaranteed critical, as detect pot still 40m range, the only vible NB build is range stem NB, left all mana pool to cast Cloak, the mag NB range/melee is dead, it impossible to use mana to cast cloak and offence skill(spamable conceal weapon as example) at same time...because during invisible there 0 mana restore and drain mana consitantly.

"Only viable nb build is range stam nb"
Me on my stam nightblade using dark cloak two days ago using only surprise attack + heavy attack and getting almost 13k+ damage:


Only range stamblade is viable indeed..

Jokes aside, I think maybe the numbers could be adjusted. 0 Mag regen might be too much but cloak spammers deserved to get some sort of deficit, if this goes live as is I wouldn't shed a tear.

StaticWave

NB is the single most annoying and obnoxious class in the game. I can’t count how many times a NB in full dmg gear hits me with Snipe and 3 procs from max range, only to immediately run away in Cloak when I chase after him. Detect potions can’t do much either if you are getting hit from multiple directions by multiple proc NBs.

Cloak needed this nerf. It was long overdue. Now NBs who crutched on Cloak will actually need to adapt and improve instead of relying on this single skill as their defense.

Vulkunne

bladenick wrote: »

The change of shadow cloak is purely nerf to ground, and no counter compensation on other skill adjustments, all current play style shall either impossible or much more difficult

update:
1. once cast cloak, you gointo "Invisible" stauts, it NOT auto switch to "Hide" status, unless you run out of Mana.
2. once cast cloak, the mana restore is 0, and drain mana 2xxx every 2 seconds, with 20k mana pool, you can only sustain invisible for 10 - 14 seconds.
3. Toggle off, need cast a skill which reveal "HIDE", or attack an enemy. refer to point 1, there no way to auto switch from "INVISIBLE" to "HIDE"

General impact: it force NB to expose in blank sight and only cast shadow disguise when you want guaranteed critical, as detect pot still 40m range, the only vible NB build is range stem NB, left all mana pool to cast Cloak, the mag NB range/melee is dead, it impossible to use mana to cast cloak and offence skill(spamable conceal weapon as example) at same time...because during invisible there 0 mana restore and drain mana consitantly.

As incap and spectral bow designed as easy to miss, it expecting execution without notice by enemy, consequently incap will be useless as stealth approaches enemy with enough resource to release combo shall be hard core , because every body saw you in engage in combat then invisible in blank sight, every body know you need take action in 2 seconds, dare not to stay invisible more then 5 seconds, that to easy to counter.

currently melee NB need repeat cast cloak and approach enemy to release Incap, this play style is no more and if insist to do it will end at zero mana after incap



surpprisely the sorc hardward is not touched..(mistake here , get 33% healing nerf)

Exactly. And for whoever's left that might try and use this as it stands today will be rather expensive.

Necrotech_Master

Jaimeh wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

All the nightblades who crutched on shadowy disguise should just go swap to magsorc with hardened ward and streak if you are afraid to die

You can say that about any class though... DKs who crutch on X, sorcs who crutch on Y, and so on. The thing is this change kills an entire playstyle that affects both PvE and PvP. They could have increased the cost upon cast, if they wanted to nerf it, but this change fundamentally changes how the skill works, and renders it obsolete. Imagine going on a thieving/killing spree with a hunge bounty and having to micoro-manage the toggle. There's so many counters to ganking (which, btw, is not limited to NBs), but people complained enough so that ZOS finally gave in and decide to delete one of the most class-defining skills of NBs. I really hope this will not go to live ZOS_BrianWheeler ZOS_GinaBruno.

in pve, the mag cost will be pretty easy to negate/counter

the base mag cost will be like 3200, or 1600 per second equivalent drain

darloc brae alone is like 660 mag restore every second while crouching, a few cost reductions or another set which directly restores mag and it will be sustainable for long periods of time

non infused cost reduction glyph is -203
infused increases this by 60%, putting it to 324

3x non infused cost reduction is -609
3x infused cost reduction is -972

3200 - 972 = 2228, or 1114 cost per second drain

darloc brae is 660 gain per second when crouching

final cost overall drain would be like 500 per second

this is not including gear bonuses (light armor cost reduction, maximum -14% cost), or racial bonuses to reduced skill costs

basically have to just treat it like old mist form (which did the same thing, cost mag and reduced recov to 0)

edit: added numbers

The trade-off is though that you have to craft an entire build around just using one skill (and semi-successfully, at that). That build will only service cloaking, not fighting and so on. And it's not just thieving; on a magblade, you don't have to be boxed in a specialized build every time you want to use cloak, say to pass on some mobs and fight a boss, nor would you have to deal with a very clunky toggle, you could just slot the skill as is and go. How many people will have that specialized build equipped on every NB, how many of them will have access to addons to swap to it fast when they want to cloak, and then to swap back to their usual set-up when they want to do combat... It makes using the skill so undesirable, that you basically won't use it.

this isnt far off of what im already doing for my NB that i use for stealth content in pve, its not great at all for combat, the only differences in my current build is not using light armor, and not using cost reduction glyphs

if i was using my NB for combat, i certainly wouldnt actively be using shadow cloak because it provided a passive crit chance boost just slotting (i havent been on pts to see if the passive crit chance bonus for slotting is still on the skill)

Jaimeh

ioResult wrote: »

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

There are sets which grants generation when you crouch so you can have it, but you have to built around it - so you must choose betweeen more invisibility or damage which is healthy.

I love how people who don’t actually play Nightblade outside of maybe. Rallying Crutch brawler are telling those of us who use the ability literally every day that it’s OK as it is.

There’s no good visual cue in the game to know if it’s on or off.

You get pulled out of stealth and it’s still ticking even though it’s not doing what it’s designed to do.

Using it sparingly as all good Nightlbades do, timing when and how to use it to maintain Mag, is impossible to do with the toggle mechanic. I’ve spent time on PTS trying to use it

In the presence of ball groups the toggle off will FAIL.

It is only inexperienced Nightblades who spam cloak thinking it’s going to save them. So saying the toggle is to help new Nightblades is disingenuous at BEST.

You all got your tanky meta and ridiculous shields in the last two patches. It’s nearly impossible for most NBs to solo kill an experienced PvPer in other classes like Sorc & DK now, not to mention “heal to full instantly” Wardens.

Now you all want to make it impossible to use cloak effectively.

We’ll just all turn our PvP NBs into unikillable Tank/Heals and walk around in a MegaZerg, and stand on the flags of any keep you are all trying to take. No more PvDoor in Cyrodiil. OK if that’s what you all want, that’s what we’ll do - without paying a dime for ESO Plus or crowns. That’s where this ends up.

This ^ With a toggle you can't have a fast and reactive playstyle (which is all that ESO combat and PvP is). For stamNbs timing in cloak had to be judicious and fast. Without a heavily sustain-focused build (which will render fighting useless), the judicious part becomes that much harder, and the fast part is killed altogether. @ZOS_BrianWheeler Even with a regen build (I tested with Darloc on the PTS) the drain was too much, the toggle was super clanky, and what am I supposed to do with tha build in Cyro anyway? It wouldn't be fun to play not even on a farmer toon.

argonian37

. Maybe, we should ALL think twice before asking for any nerfs. I only defend the Hardened Ward nerf as an exception for reasons I have explained in other posts.

Exactly, This is the point. Sometimes people here in the forums asks for nerfs and thats not a solution in the big picture. I never asked about a nerf because of this, we will finally play a game that everyone plays the same build, with no identity at all. Is different to nerf a set, because you have options and you can build an alternative but class defining skills is a delicate issue for the game balance and general quality and feel of the game

Tommy_The_Gun

ioResult wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

Y'all know siphoning strikes lines up perfectly with the cost per 2 seconds right?

You can still Perma stealth with a heal that doesn't pop invis. And if you have a potion up you can definitely stay stealthed for 30+ seconds easily.

All the Sorcs thought the world was ending when they changed Ward from 20 seconds to 6 seconds. Everyone adapted.

Cloak has been overdue for an adjustment.

No you can’t perma-cloak. Stop saying you can when you havent even used it in PTS.

You get pulled out of cloak and it’s still running and you can’t defend yourself because you have no Mag left.

So revealing does not toggle cloak off ? Dang. I have no way of testing it, but If it does not toggle off cloak but toggles off its effect, then it must be reported as a bug. No way it is is intended. The reason they are converting cloak to toggle is so that you would not require pressing a button every 3 seconds. It should not behave like that. On live, if you are detected by a skill, cloak is literally "cancelled" and you can not cast it. Can we at least disable it manually, or "we can not cast it" (we can not press a button again to turn it fully off) ?

argonian37

StaticWave wrote: »

NB is the single most annoying and obnoxious class in the game. I can’t count how many times a NB in full dmg gear hits me with Snipe and 3 procs from max range, only to immediately run away in Cloak when I chase after him. Detect potions can’t do much either if you are getting hit from multiple directions by multiple proc NBs.

Cloak needed this nerf. It was long overdue. Now NBs who crutched on Cloak will actually need to adapt and improve instead of relying on this single skill as their defense.

StaticWave wrote: »

NB is the single most annoying and obnoxious class in the game. I can’t count how many times a NB in full dmg gear hits me with Snipe and 3 procs from max range, only to immediately run away in Cloak when I chase after him. Detect potions can’t do much either if you are getting hit from multiple directions by multiple proc NBs.

Cloak needed this nerf. It was long overdue. Now NBs who crutched on Cloak will actually need to adapt and improve instead of relying on this single skill as their defense.

So if you cant kill multiple players that are attacking you with snipe they should nerf their class defining skill because the pots just dont instakill the snipers?
If you cant kill another player that attacks you devs should nerf an entire class?
Cyro is a PVP war battlefield, people are suppose to attack you and have the chance to escape. Is a war game with chances for everyone to succeed
I agree that in general ranged combat is much more easy than melee, without benefits to close combat, but thats not about class defining skills

System_Data

StaticWave wrote: »

NB is the single most annoying and obnoxious class in the game. I can’t count how many times a NB in full dmg gear hits me with Snipe and 3 procs from max range, only to immediately run away in Cloak when I chase after him. Detect potions can’t do much either if you are getting hit from multiple directions by multiple proc NBs.

Cloak needed this nerf. It was long overdue. Now NBs who crutched on Cloak will actually need to adapt and improve instead of relying on this single skill as their defense.

I love seeing used this argument all the time as if it's relevant. People asking for ramping costs on cloak as if it would do anything to stop them from sniping you from max range and running away. The same will apply here, NBs are still going to snipe you from max range and run away, they might idle a bit longer before getting back into combat, but so what the same problem is still there. If you had asked to nerf Snipe's 35m range, proc sets to be nerfed or certain passives to be toned down on NB, you would have an easier time fighting max range NBs.

With these changes on Cloak, i, playing a rangeblade, won't really have any issue at all doing the same thing as usual. Brawlerblades won't feel a thing. Casuals and gankers will and you'll just see less people playing PVP in a already dying PVP environment.

Btw, no one is forcing you to chase that max range NB and fail, pick your battles better.

Jaimeh

System_Data wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

NB is the single most annoying and obnoxious class in the game. I can’t count how many times a NB in full dmg gear hits me with Snipe and 3 procs from max range, only to immediately run away in Cloak when I chase after him. Detect potions can’t do much either if you are getting hit from multiple directions by multiple proc NBs.

Cloak needed this nerf. It was long overdue. Now NBs who crutched on Cloak will actually need to adapt and improve instead of relying on this single skill as their defense.

I love seeing used this argument all the time as if it's relevant. People asking for ramping costs on cloak as if it would do anything to stop them from sniping you from max range and running away. The same will apply here, NBs are still going to snipe you from max range and run away, they might idle a bit longer before getting back into combat, but so what the same problem is still there. If you had asked to nerf Snipe's 35m range, proc sets to be nerfed or certain passives to be toned down on NB, you would have an easier time fighting max range NBs.

With these changes on Cloak, i, playing a rangeblade, won't really have any issue at all doing the same thing as usual. Brawlerblades won't feel a thing. Casuals and gankers will and you'll just see less people playing PVP in a already dying PVP environment.

Btw, no one is forcing you to chase that max range NB and fail, pick your battles better.

Yup: the reason why people hate cloak NBs is because they are getting sucker punched. It doesn't matter if all classes over-perform, but that hit from cloak makes for an emotional reaction. You see it when a full group chases viciously after that one bowblade. That playstyle will always be hated, and it was meant to be like that since the inception of the game, because it's the archetype of the class. There are counters, but people resent having to run them (even though NBs are not the only ones hiding--I've been deleted by ganksorcs for eg.).

Tommy_The_Gun

StaticWave wrote: »

NB is the single most annoying and obnoxious class in the game. I can’t count how many times a NB in full dmg gear hits me with Snipe and 3 procs from max range, only to immediately run away in Cloak when I chase after him. Detect potions can’t do much either if you are getting hit from multiple directions by multiple proc NBs.

Cloak needed this nerf. It was long overdue. Now NBs who crutched on Cloak will actually need to adapt and improve instead of relying on this single skill as their defense.

You do realize that it is not about NB, but rather about ganking play-style ? I mean NB just so happens to fill that role the best out of all classes, while other classes shine in other types of play-style. Also fun fact: there was one moment in game history when it were Sorcs out of all classes that were used to stealth ganks. Yeah, imagine that. Overload based builds + crouch stealth + invisibility potion was a thing and it outperformed NB at that time.

If it won't be a NB hitting you from stealth, then it will be other class + vamp (which like I have mentioned did happened in the past). It is just what type of players play the game. Some people like mages. Some people like heavy armour knights. And some like rouges.

In order to not be sniped from stealth ever again, you would literally had to remove all of the stealth & invisibility mechanicians from the game... which realistically won't gonna happen as there are whole systems (like justice, pick pocketing, dark brotherhood etc) build around stealth gameplay.

Necrotech_Master

Jaimeh wrote: »

System_Data wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

NB is the single most annoying and obnoxious class in the game. I can’t count how many times a NB in full dmg gear hits me with Snipe and 3 procs from max range, only to immediately run away in Cloak when I chase after him. Detect potions can’t do much either if you are getting hit from multiple directions by multiple proc NBs.

Cloak needed this nerf. It was long overdue. Now NBs who crutched on Cloak will actually need to adapt and improve instead of relying on this single skill as their defense.

I love seeing used this argument all the time as if it's relevant. People asking for ramping costs on cloak as if it would do anything to stop them from sniping you from max range and running away. The same will apply here, NBs are still going to snipe you from max range and run away, they might idle a bit longer before getting back into combat, but so what the same problem is still there. If you had asked to nerf Snipe's 35m range, proc sets to be nerfed or certain passives to be toned down on NB, you would have an easier time fighting max range NBs.

With these changes on Cloak, i, playing a rangeblade, won't really have any issue at all doing the same thing as usual. Brawlerblades won't feel a thing. Casuals and gankers will and you'll just see less people playing PVP in a already dying PVP environment.

Btw, no one is forcing you to chase that max range NB and fail, pick your battles better.

Yup: the reason why people hate cloak NBs is because they are getting sucker punched. It doesn't matter if all classes over-perform, but that hit from cloak makes for an emotional reaction. You see it when a full group chases viciously after that one bowblade. That playstyle will always be hated, and it was meant to be like that since the inception of the game, because it's the archetype of the class. There are counters, but people resent having to run them (even though NBs are not the only ones hiding--I've been deleted by ganksorcs for eg.).

yeah, i also remember getting killed by those 1 hit DKs from stealth before the empower change lol

i think almost any class can be setup for ganks, NB can do it easier from melee, which is the most visible (ironically lol)

LittlePinkDot

I had already switch my Stam NB to heavy armour dark cloak a couple weeks ago. I like it better. You need to embrace the tank meta.. having permanent minor protection like Templar is nice.

CrazyKitty

Looks like it's time to combine the 15 NB cloak threads into one.

bladenick

katorga wrote: »

So how does this work?

I toggle invis on, moving around, and I come into range of a detect pot, does it automatically toggle off and stop the magicka drain, or am I visible and still burning magicka?

Later one , you stand like nake man and still burn mana. The cloak toggle off only if you run out of mana or attack/ been attack or cast skill which break invisible/hide