Porting out of IC (Imperial City) when fighting other players needs a fix!

SeaGtGruff · August 21

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

It is not "misinformation" that we used to be able to queue for a different campaign while already in Cyrodiil or IC back before IC got its own campaigns. We absolutely could do that.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5946803/#Comment_5946803

I've been looking back through old posts, trying to find references to queuing for a different campaign while already in either Cyrodiil or IC, but haven't found anything definitive yet, other than my comment in the linked thread from April 2019 where I mentioned having seen someone else in a different thread (apparently about farming Tel Var) say that you could queue for a different campaign as a "guest." I'm trying to find that other thread, but haven't done so yet.

I do remember that after I read their comment, I started using that as a way to quickly and easily leave the IC districts without going through the sewers. This was before IC was split off from Cyrodiil's campaigns, when we had to make our way from our alliance base in Cyrodiil to the shores of Lake Rumare and enter IC through one of the three sewer exits. Those sewer exits were also a convenient way to return to base in Cyrodiil from clear across Cyrodiil, because if we could make it to one of the sewer exits then we could go in, find ourselves at our alliance base in the sewers, then leave through the same sewer grate and find ourselves back at our alliance base in Cyrodiil.

When we were in either Cyrodiil or IC, we could also queue for one of the other campaigns as a "guest," and after accepting the queue we would find ourselves at our alliance base in Cyrodiil in the selected guest campaign. If we actually wanted to be in our home campaign, we could then queue again for our home campaign.

I also looked for information about when IC was split off from the Cyrodiil campaigns and got campaigns of its own. It turns out it was not long after the linked thread from April 2019, because the split occurred with the release of Update 22, when the Elsweyr chapter went live in May 2019. The patch notes mention the removal of guest campaigns, the new IC campaigns, and the new alliance-locked campaign.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/474422/pc-mac-patch-notes-v5-0-5-elsweyr-update-22#latest

This does not mean that ZOS shouldn't consider looking into ways to stop PvP players from exploiting the use of addons and scripts to make quick escapes from fights while in either Cyrodiil or IC, but it does confirm that cross-campaign queuing was possible back before IC was split from Cyrodiil, although it worked differently then than it does now, since it allowed queuing from one Cyrodiil/IC campaign to another Cyrodiil/IC campaign, whereas now it is only possible to queue from Cyrodiil to IC or vice versa. And I definitely wouldn't want any solutions to prevent all cross-campaign queuing, just the exploitation of that normal queuing process through the use of addons and scripts.

MidniteOwl1913 · August 21

Major_Mangle wrote: »

I feel like a lot of people are missing the point of the thread. Thank you @React in your responses for explaining the issue more clearly. Also, your suggestion about being able to queue out while in a sanctuary zone is a good solution, but as I wrote in my initial comment I also think you should be able to accept a queue if you haven´t done or taken damage from a player within a certain time frame. This allow people to get out if they´re still stuck in combat.

First of all, bringing up the issue of ganking is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand. A ganker either takes you by surprise and with enough burst damage kills you within 1-2 GCD´s, which gives you no time to abuse the queue system, or the fail the attempt to kill their target and once you know a ganker is nearby, you´ve the upper hand because you know what´s coming and can predict further attempts. So in either scenario, bringing up ganking to the discussion is irrelevant.

There seem to be a few things going on here. The OP is upset because some PVPers are using an addon to one click out of a fight they are losing. I think this is a fair point. But before blaming the ability to port out to Cryo, try it on the console with no addons.

I brought up the example with the addon to further highlight the problem. The addon(s) in this case is an issue, but the underlying mechanic I´ve problems with is that you´re allowed to bypass the entire risk/reward design of IC. And as React wrote in an earlier comment you can easily practice the sequence of what buttons to press in order to queue for a campaign, same on PC even without addons.

We should not have to use /stuck and lose half our Tel Var.

For me this is somewhat of an indication that getting out of IC through "un-intended means" is you know....not intended. Not saying it doesn´t suck when you get clipped into terrain/walls etc, but if my suggestion to be able to accept or initiate a queue if you haven´t taken damage within a certain timeframe becomes a thing, it would solve the issue you bring up as well (since you generally speaking can´t hit or get hit by things when you clip into terrain.

@CameraBeardThePirate said it quite perfect

Or, accept that you shouldn't just get to run away from a fight in an environment where fighting over a currency is the main mechanic.

And I want to clarify, escaping through proper means like invis, streaking away, stage 4 vamp sprint or whatever proper combat mechanic that´s available to you (even out tanking the enemy and wait for your group to show up and help you) is fine. But why even have consumables (sigil of imperial retreat) designed to get you to safety in IC, when you can just bypass the entire design of IC.

Queueing for Cryo from IC must be very different on the PC. I can't just hit a few buttons. I go to the menu select which cryo to go to, click that, then there is at least a 2 sec delay and I have then I to click to accept. In no fight will I live while doing all that. I'm in menu mod and can't even heal.

SerafinaWaterstar · August 21

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Major_Mangle wrote: »

I feel like a lot of people are missing the point of the thread. Thank you @React in your responses for explaining the issue more clearly. Also, your suggestion about being able to queue out while in a sanctuary zone is a good solution, but as I wrote in my initial comment I also think you should be able to accept a queue if you haven´t done or taken damage from a player within a certain time frame. This allow people to get out if they´re still stuck in combat.

First of all, bringing up the issue of ganking is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand. A ganker either takes you by surprise and with enough burst damage kills you within 1-2 GCD´s, which gives you no time to abuse the queue system, or the fail the attempt to kill their target and once you know a ganker is nearby, you´ve the upper hand because you know what´s coming and can predict further attempts. So in either scenario, bringing up ganking to the discussion is irrelevant.

There seem to be a few things going on here. The OP is upset because some PVPers are using an addon to one click out of a fight they are losing. I think this is a fair point. But before blaming the ability to port out to Cryo, try it on the console with no addons.

I brought up the example with the addon to further highlight the problem. The addon(s) in this case is an issue, but the underlying mechanic I´ve problems with is that you´re allowed to bypass the entire risk/reward design of IC. And as React wrote in an earlier comment you can easily practice the sequence of what buttons to press in order to queue for a campaign, same on PC even without addons.

We should not have to use /stuck and lose half our Tel Var.

For me this is somewhat of an indication that getting out of IC through "un-intended means" is you know....not intended. Not saying it doesn´t suck when you get clipped into terrain/walls etc, but if my suggestion to be able to accept or initiate a queue if you haven´t taken damage within a certain timeframe becomes a thing, it would solve the issue you bring up as well (since you generally speaking can´t hit or get hit by things when you clip into terrain.

@CameraBeardThePirate said it quite perfect

Or, accept that you shouldn't just get to run away from a fight in an environment where fighting over a currency is the main mechanic.

And I want to clarify, escaping through proper means like invis, streaking away, stage 4 vamp sprint or whatever proper combat mechanic that´s available to you (even out tanking the enemy and wait for your group to show up and help you) is fine. But why even have consumables (sigil of imperial retreat) designed to get you to safety in IC, when you can just bypass the entire design of IC.

Queueing for Cryo from IC must be very different on the PC. I can't just hit a few buttons. I go to the menu select which cryo to go to, click that, then there is at least a 2 sec delay and I have then I to click to accept. In no fight will I live while doing all that. I'm in menu mod and can't even heal.

Exactly. This seems like a pc/add on issue, not a console one.
By the time I’ve opened the menu, I’d be dead! 🤣

Ingenon · August 21

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Queueing for Cryo from IC must be very different on the PC. I can't just hit a few buttons. I go to the menu select which cryo to go to, click that, then there is at least a 2 sec delay and I have then I to click to accept. In no fight will I live while doing all that. I'm in menu mod and can't even heal.

Exactly. This seems like a pc/add on issue, not a console one.
By the time I’ve opened the menu, I’d be dead! 🤣

Agreed. ZOS, please do not change availability of queue to Cyrodiil on console servers. Players on console cannot queue for Cyrodiil and accept the queue while actively in combat with an enemy PvP. We do not have access to the Tel Var Saver add-on on console servers. If action is needed, please ban the add-on, or make it not work by changing the game interface to add-ons.

TaSheen · August 21

@SeaGtGruff - I think I remember that @VaranisArano mentioned that several times in different posts. Seems she's not posting any more, but if you do a search on her @ name, you might turn something up - actually, might be easier using her @ name and the keywords on google.

React · August 21

Ingenon wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Queueing for Cryo from IC must be very different on the PC. I can't just hit a few buttons. I go to the menu select which cryo to go to, click that, then there is at least a 2 sec delay and I have then I to click to accept. In no fight will I live while doing all that. I'm in menu mod and can't even heal.

Exactly. This seems like a pc/add on issue, not a console one.
By the time I’ve opened the menu, I’d be dead! 🤣

Agreed. ZOS, please do not change availability of queue to Cyrodiil on console servers. Players on console cannot queue for Cyrodiil and accept the queue while actively in combat with an enemy PvP. We do not have access to the Tel Var Saver add-on on console servers. If action is needed, please ban the add-on, or make it not work by changing the game interface to add-ons.

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Major_Mangle wrote: »

I feel like a lot of people are missing the point of the thread. Thank you @React in your responses for explaining the issue more clearly. Also, your suggestion about being able to queue out while in a sanctuary zone is a good solution, but as I wrote in my initial comment I also think you should be able to accept a queue if you haven´t done or taken damage from a player within a certain time frame. This allow people to get out if they´re still stuck in combat.

First of all, bringing up the issue of ganking is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand. A ganker either takes you by surprise and with enough burst damage kills you within 1-2 GCD´s, which gives you no time to abuse the queue system, or the fail the attempt to kill their target and once you know a ganker is nearby, you´ve the upper hand because you know what´s coming and can predict further attempts. So in either scenario, bringing up ganking to the discussion is irrelevant.

There seem to be a few things going on here. The OP is upset because some PVPers are using an addon to one click out of a fight they are losing. I think this is a fair point. But before blaming the ability to port out to Cryo, try it on the console with no addons.

I brought up the example with the addon to further highlight the problem. The addon(s) in this case is an issue, but the underlying mechanic I´ve problems with is that you´re allowed to bypass the entire risk/reward design of IC. And as React wrote in an earlier comment you can easily practice the sequence of what buttons to press in order to queue for a campaign, same on PC even without addons.

We should not have to use /stuck and lose half our Tel Var.

For me this is somewhat of an indication that getting out of IC through "un-intended means" is you know....not intended. Not saying it doesn´t suck when you get clipped into terrain/walls etc, but if my suggestion to be able to accept or initiate a queue if you haven´t taken damage within a certain timeframe becomes a thing, it would solve the issue you bring up as well (since you generally speaking can´t hit or get hit by things when you clip into terrain.

@CameraBeardThePirate said it quite perfect

Or, accept that you shouldn't just get to run away from a fight in an environment where fighting over a currency is the main mechanic.

And I want to clarify, escaping through proper means like invis, streaking away, stage 4 vamp sprint or whatever proper combat mechanic that´s available to you (even out tanking the enemy and wait for your group to show up and help you) is fine. But why even have consumables (sigil of imperial retreat) designed to get you to safety in IC, when you can just bypass the entire design of IC.

Queueing for Cryo from IC must be very different on the PC. I can't just hit a few buttons. I go to the menu select which cryo to go to, click that, then there is at least a 2 sec delay and I have then I to click to accept. In no fight will I live while doing all that. I'm in menu mod and can't even heal.

Exactly. This seems like a pc/add on issue, not a console one.
By the time I’ve opened the menu, I’d be dead! 🤣

This isn't at all true. I'm from xbox NA originally, and I now play on PC NA using a controller and the base game UI.

As I mentioned in an earlier comment, it isn't at all difficult to manually do this while in combat with a controller. You simply need to memorize the button combination, which really isn't asking much. It's been quite some time since I've needed to do it, but it's something like Start > RT > down > A > A > A to begin the queue, then when it pops you press start twice (to clear the accept delay), then start > LT > down > A > A. This might not be precisely the correct combos, as I've not had to utilize it in a very long time, but neither function takes more than a second or two to execute and can be done while midair from a jump, or with a defensive ult active to protect yourself.

Navigating menus in combat isn't some crazy feat. Look at games like dark and darker, or any extraction style game. It's a common skill these days.

jaws343 · August 21

React wrote: »

Ingenon wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Queueing for Cryo from IC must be very different on the PC. I can't just hit a few buttons. I go to the menu select which cryo to go to, click that, then there is at least a 2 sec delay and I have then I to click to accept. In no fight will I live while doing all that. I'm in menu mod and can't even heal.

Exactly. This seems like a pc/add on issue, not a console one.
By the time I’ve opened the menu, I’d be dead! 🤣

Agreed. ZOS, please do not change availability of queue to Cyrodiil on console servers. Players on console cannot queue for Cyrodiil and accept the queue while actively in combat with an enemy PvP. We do not have access to the Tel Var Saver add-on on console servers. If action is needed, please ban the add-on, or make it not work by changing the game interface to add-ons.

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Major_Mangle wrote: »

I feel like a lot of people are missing the point of the thread. Thank you @React in your responses for explaining the issue more clearly. Also, your suggestion about being able to queue out while in a sanctuary zone is a good solution, but as I wrote in my initial comment I also think you should be able to accept a queue if you haven´t done or taken damage from a player within a certain time frame. This allow people to get out if they´re still stuck in combat.

First of all, bringing up the issue of ganking is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand. A ganker either takes you by surprise and with enough burst damage kills you within 1-2 GCD´s, which gives you no time to abuse the queue system, or the fail the attempt to kill their target and once you know a ganker is nearby, you´ve the upper hand because you know what´s coming and can predict further attempts. So in either scenario, bringing up ganking to the discussion is irrelevant.

There seem to be a few things going on here. The OP is upset because some PVPers are using an addon to one click out of a fight they are losing. I think this is a fair point. But before blaming the ability to port out to Cryo, try it on the console with no addons.

I brought up the example with the addon to further highlight the problem. The addon(s) in this case is an issue, but the underlying mechanic I´ve problems with is that you´re allowed to bypass the entire risk/reward design of IC. And as React wrote in an earlier comment you can easily practice the sequence of what buttons to press in order to queue for a campaign, same on PC even without addons.

We should not have to use /stuck and lose half our Tel Var.

For me this is somewhat of an indication that getting out of IC through "un-intended means" is you know....not intended. Not saying it doesn´t suck when you get clipped into terrain/walls etc, but if my suggestion to be able to accept or initiate a queue if you haven´t taken damage within a certain timeframe becomes a thing, it would solve the issue you bring up as well (since you generally speaking can´t hit or get hit by things when you clip into terrain.

@CameraBeardThePirate said it quite perfect

Or, accept that you shouldn't just get to run away from a fight in an environment where fighting over a currency is the main mechanic.

And I want to clarify, escaping through proper means like invis, streaking away, stage 4 vamp sprint or whatever proper combat mechanic that´s available to you (even out tanking the enemy and wait for your group to show up and help you) is fine. But why even have consumables (sigil of imperial retreat) designed to get you to safety in IC, when you can just bypass the entire design of IC.

Queueing for Cryo from IC must be very different on the PC. I can't just hit a few buttons. I go to the menu select which cryo to go to, click that, then there is at least a 2 sec delay and I have then I to click to accept. In no fight will I live while doing all that. I'm in menu mod and can't even heal.

Exactly. This seems like a pc/add on issue, not a console one.
By the time I’ve opened the menu, I’d be dead! 🤣

This isn't at all true. I'm from xbox NA originally, and I now play on PC NA using a controller and the base game UI.

As I mentioned in an earlier comment, it isn't at all difficult to manually do this while in combat with a controller. You simply need to memorize the button combination, which really isn't asking much. It's been quite some time since I've needed to do it, but it's something like Start > RT > down > A > A > A to begin the queue, then when it pops you press start twice (to clear the accept delay), then start > LT > down > A > A. This might not be precisely the correct combos, as I've not had to utilize it in a very long time, but neither function takes more than a second or two to execute and can be done while midair from a jump, or with a defensive ult active to protect yourself.

Navigating menus in combat isn't some crazy feat. Look at games like dark and darker, or any extraction style game. It's a common skill these days.

Yeah, console UI is vastly different than PC UI. Doesn't really matter that you are using a controller to navigate it. Your 1 down is like 6 or 7 downs, and then more downs to choose the right campaign and not accidentally abandon campaign.

React · August 21

jaws343 wrote: »

React wrote: »

Ingenon wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Queueing for Cryo from IC must be very different on the PC. I can't just hit a few buttons. I go to the menu select which cryo to go to, click that, then there is at least a 2 sec delay and I have then I to click to accept. In no fight will I live while doing all that. I'm in menu mod and can't even heal.

Exactly. This seems like a pc/add on issue, not a console one.
By the time I’ve opened the menu, I’d be dead! 🤣

Agreed. ZOS, please do not change availability of queue to Cyrodiil on console servers. Players on console cannot queue for Cyrodiil and accept the queue while actively in combat with an enemy PvP. We do not have access to the Tel Var Saver add-on on console servers. If action is needed, please ban the add-on, or make it not work by changing the game interface to add-ons.

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Major_Mangle wrote: »

I feel like a lot of people are missing the point of the thread. Thank you @React in your responses for explaining the issue more clearly. Also, your suggestion about being able to queue out while in a sanctuary zone is a good solution, but as I wrote in my initial comment I also think you should be able to accept a queue if you haven´t done or taken damage from a player within a certain time frame. This allow people to get out if they´re still stuck in combat.

First of all, bringing up the issue of ganking is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand. A ganker either takes you by surprise and with enough burst damage kills you within 1-2 GCD´s, which gives you no time to abuse the queue system, or the fail the attempt to kill their target and once you know a ganker is nearby, you´ve the upper hand because you know what´s coming and can predict further attempts. So in either scenario, bringing up ganking to the discussion is irrelevant.

There seem to be a few things going on here. The OP is upset because some PVPers are using an addon to one click out of a fight they are losing. I think this is a fair point. But before blaming the ability to port out to Cryo, try it on the console with no addons.

I brought up the example with the addon to further highlight the problem. The addon(s) in this case is an issue, but the underlying mechanic I´ve problems with is that you´re allowed to bypass the entire risk/reward design of IC. And as React wrote in an earlier comment you can easily practice the sequence of what buttons to press in order to queue for a campaign, same on PC even without addons.

We should not have to use /stuck and lose half our Tel Var.

For me this is somewhat of an indication that getting out of IC through "un-intended means" is you know....not intended. Not saying it doesn´t suck when you get clipped into terrain/walls etc, but if my suggestion to be able to accept or initiate a queue if you haven´t taken damage within a certain timeframe becomes a thing, it would solve the issue you bring up as well (since you generally speaking can´t hit or get hit by things when you clip into terrain.

@CameraBeardThePirate said it quite perfect

Or, accept that you shouldn't just get to run away from a fight in an environment where fighting over a currency is the main mechanic.

And I want to clarify, escaping through proper means like invis, streaking away, stage 4 vamp sprint or whatever proper combat mechanic that´s available to you (even out tanking the enemy and wait for your group to show up and help you) is fine. But why even have consumables (sigil of imperial retreat) designed to get you to safety in IC, when you can just bypass the entire design of IC.

Queueing for Cryo from IC must be very different on the PC. I can't just hit a few buttons. I go to the menu select which cryo to go to, click that, then there is at least a 2 sec delay and I have then I to click to accept. In no fight will I live while doing all that. I'm in menu mod and can't even heal.

Exactly. This seems like a pc/add on issue, not a console one.
By the time I’ve opened the menu, I’d be dead! 🤣

This isn't at all true. I'm from xbox NA originally, and I now play on PC NA using a controller and the base game UI.

As I mentioned in an earlier comment, it isn't at all difficult to manually do this while in combat with a controller. You simply need to memorize the button combination, which really isn't asking much. It's been quite some time since I've needed to do it, but it's something like Start > RT > down > A > A > A to begin the queue, then when it pops you press start twice (to clear the accept delay), then start > LT > down > A > A. This might not be precisely the correct combos, as I've not had to utilize it in a very long time, but neither function takes more than a second or two to execute and can be done while midair from a jump, or with a defensive ult active to protect yourself.

Navigating menus in combat isn't some crazy feat. Look at games like dark and darker, or any extraction style game. It's a common skill these days.

Yeah, console UI is vastly different than PC UI. Doesn't really matter that you are using a controller to navigate it. Your 1 down is like 6 or 7 downs, and then more downs to choose the right campaign and not accidentally abandon campaign.

Did you read my comment? I'm using a controller with base CONSOLE UI on PC. The people I quoted were suggesting this is impossible on CONSOLE UI.

LT and RT navigate to the bottom of the currently visible menu options. Campaigns are either one up or down from the bottom of where an RT takes you after opening the menu, and notifications (where you accept a queue while in combat) is one down from tbe crown store. Hence the RT > down or LT > down.

There is no "accidently abandoning the campaign", that option is located at the bottom of the campaign window. If you're memorizing the button combo like I've suggested here, that isn't even a somewhat relavent concern.

Ingenon · August 21

React wrote: »

This isn't at all true. I'm from xbox NA originally, and I now play on PC NA using a controller and the base game UI.

As I mentioned in an earlier comment, it isn't at all difficult to manually do this while in combat with a controller. You simply need to memorize the button combination, which really isn't asking much. It's been quite some time since I've needed to do it, but it's something like Start > RT > down > A > A > A to begin the queue, then when it pops you press start twice (to clear the accept delay), then start > LT > down > A > A. This might not be precisely the correct combos, as I've not had to utilize it in a very long time, but neither function takes more than a second or two to execute and can be done while midair from a jump, or with a defensive ult active to protect yourself.

Navigating menus in combat isn't some crazy feat. Look at games like dark and darker, or any extraction style game. It's a common skill these days.

I'm glad you can click all those buttons in one second. I cannot, especially not while I am being attacked and actively defending myself and fighting back. And the add-on exists on PC, which proves to me that there are others that cannot click all those buttons in one second. Otherwise, why would folks be using this add-on?

And I'm still not getting why this is an issue that requires ZOS to change a base game feature. When I get killed in Imperial City while I am doing PvE quests, it is almost always from behind while I am attacking an NPC for my quest. And I don't know I'm under attack from the PvP enemy until I am already dead.

I think the example of Tel Var farmers or PvE players doing PvE quests leaving Imperial City while in extended PvP combat does not happen very often. I think that far more often what happens is folks queue for Cyrodiil because they are done with what they are doing in Imperial City, and it takes too long to travel back to base through the sewers. Or they may see enemy player(s) coming towards them, and decide to leave, while the enemy is too far away yet to attack. Or they are stuck in combat from a battle they had with enemy NPC minutes ago. Or they are stuck in a wall.

As others have already pointed out, the capability to queue to Cyrodiil from Imperial City has existed since at least ESO Update 22, which released in May, 2019 for PC. Five plus years, I believe we are all used to this game capability by now.

jaws343 · August 21

React wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

React wrote: »

Ingenon wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Queueing for Cryo from IC must be very different on the PC. I can't just hit a few buttons. I go to the menu select which cryo to go to, click that, then there is at least a 2 sec delay and I have then I to click to accept. In no fight will I live while doing all that. I'm in menu mod and can't even heal.

Exactly. This seems like a pc/add on issue, not a console one.
By the time I’ve opened the menu, I’d be dead! 🤣

Agreed. ZOS, please do not change availability of queue to Cyrodiil on console servers. Players on console cannot queue for Cyrodiil and accept the queue while actively in combat with an enemy PvP. We do not have access to the Tel Var Saver add-on on console servers. If action is needed, please ban the add-on, or make it not work by changing the game interface to add-ons.

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Major_Mangle wrote: »

I feel like a lot of people are missing the point of the thread. Thank you @React in your responses for explaining the issue more clearly. Also, your suggestion about being able to queue out while in a sanctuary zone is a good solution, but as I wrote in my initial comment I also think you should be able to accept a queue if you haven´t done or taken damage from a player within a certain time frame. This allow people to get out if they´re still stuck in combat.

First of all, bringing up the issue of ganking is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand. A ganker either takes you by surprise and with enough burst damage kills you within 1-2 GCD´s, which gives you no time to abuse the queue system, or the fail the attempt to kill their target and once you know a ganker is nearby, you´ve the upper hand because you know what´s coming and can predict further attempts. So in either scenario, bringing up ganking to the discussion is irrelevant.

There seem to be a few things going on here. The OP is upset because some PVPers are using an addon to one click out of a fight they are losing. I think this is a fair point. But before blaming the ability to port out to Cryo, try it on the console with no addons.

I brought up the example with the addon to further highlight the problem. The addon(s) in this case is an issue, but the underlying mechanic I´ve problems with is that you´re allowed to bypass the entire risk/reward design of IC. And as React wrote in an earlier comment you can easily practice the sequence of what buttons to press in order to queue for a campaign, same on PC even without addons.

We should not have to use /stuck and lose half our Tel Var.

For me this is somewhat of an indication that getting out of IC through "un-intended means" is you know....not intended. Not saying it doesn´t suck when you get clipped into terrain/walls etc, but if my suggestion to be able to accept or initiate a queue if you haven´t taken damage within a certain timeframe becomes a thing, it would solve the issue you bring up as well (since you generally speaking can´t hit or get hit by things when you clip into terrain.

@CameraBeardThePirate said it quite perfect

Or, accept that you shouldn't just get to run away from a fight in an environment where fighting over a currency is the main mechanic.

And I want to clarify, escaping through proper means like invis, streaking away, stage 4 vamp sprint or whatever proper combat mechanic that´s available to you (even out tanking the enemy and wait for your group to show up and help you) is fine. But why even have consumables (sigil of imperial retreat) designed to get you to safety in IC, when you can just bypass the entire design of IC.

Queueing for Cryo from IC must be very different on the PC. I can't just hit a few buttons. I go to the menu select which cryo to go to, click that, then there is at least a 2 sec delay and I have then I to click to accept. In no fight will I live while doing all that. I'm in menu mod and can't even heal.

Exactly. This seems like a pc/add on issue, not a console one.
By the time I’ve opened the menu, I’d be dead! 🤣

This isn't at all true. I'm from xbox NA originally, and I now play on PC NA using a controller and the base game UI.

As I mentioned in an earlier comment, it isn't at all difficult to manually do this while in combat with a controller. You simply need to memorize the button combination, which really isn't asking much. It's been quite some time since I've needed to do it, but it's something like Start > RT > down > A > A > A to begin the queue, then when it pops you press start twice (to clear the accept delay), then start > LT > down > A > A. This might not be precisely the correct combos, as I've not had to utilize it in a very long time, but neither function takes more than a second or two to execute and can be done while midair from a jump, or with a defensive ult active to protect yourself.

Navigating menus in combat isn't some crazy feat. Look at games like dark and darker, or any extraction style game. It's a common skill these days.

Yeah, console UI is vastly different than PC UI. Doesn't really matter that you are using a controller to navigate it. Your 1 down is like 6 or 7 downs, and then more downs to choose the right campaign and not accidentally abandon campaign.

Did you read my comment? I'm using a controller with base CONSOLE UI on PC. The people I quoted were suggesting this is impossible on CONSOLE UI.

LT and RT navigate to the bottom of the currently visible menu options. Campaigns are either one up or down from the bottom of where an RT takes you after opening the menu, and notifications (where you accept a queue while in combat) is one down from tbe crown store. Hence the RT > down or LT > down.

There is no "accidently abandoning the campaign", that option is located at the bottom of the campaign window. If you're memorizing the button combo like I've suggested here, that isn't even a somewhat relavent concern.

Again, I don't think you realize that PC and Console UI are different. You using a controller doesn't change the UI differnce.

For example. If I hit start on console (xbox) and hit right trigger to jump to the bottom. Well, that bottom is literally the Log Out menu option.

So, if I follow your directions, I would log out of the game...

On console, to queue for a campaign, you have to start by hitting the down arrow 8 times in the menu. Before you even get to the campaign option. And then once in the Campaign menu, you have to hope that you don't accidentally hit a trigger to the bottom of the menu, because doing that before hitting A will abandon campaign. All that while in combat. Not happening on Console.

React · August 21

Ingenon wrote: »

React wrote: »

This isn't at all true. I'm from xbox NA originally, and I now play on PC NA using a controller and the base game UI.

As I mentioned in an earlier comment, it isn't at all difficult to manually do this while in combat with a controller. You simply need to memorize the button combination, which really isn't asking much. It's been quite some time since I've needed to do it, but it's something like Start > RT > down > A > A > A to begin the queue, then when it pops you press start twice (to clear the accept delay), then start > LT > down > A > A. This might not be precisely the correct combos, as I've not had to utilize it in a very long time, but neither function takes more than a second or two to execute and can be done while midair from a jump, or with a defensive ult active to protect yourself.

Navigating menus in combat isn't some crazy feat. Look at games like dark and darker, or any extraction style game. It's a common skill these days.

I'm glad you can click all those buttons in one second. I cannot, especially not while I am being attacked and actively defending myself and fighting back. And the add-on exists on PC, which proves to me that there are others that cannot click all those buttons in one second. Otherwise, why would folks be using this add-on?

And I'm still not getting why this is an issue that requires ZOS to change a base game feature. When I get killed in Imperial City while I am doing PvE quests, it is almost always from behind while I am attacking an NPC for my quest. And I don't know I'm under attack from the PvP enemy until I am already dead.

I think the example of Tel Var farmers or PvE players doing PvE quests leaving Imperial City while in extended PvP combat does not happen very often. I think that far more often what happens is folks queue for Cyrodiil because they are done with what they are doing in Imperial City, and it takes too long to travel back to base through the sewers. Or they may see enemy player(s) coming towards them, and decide to leave, while the enemy is too far away yet to attack. Or they are stuck in combat from a battle they had with enemy NPC minutes ago. Or they are stuck in a wall.

As others have already pointed out, the capability to queue to Cyrodiil from Imperial City has existed since at least ESO Update 22, which released in May, 2019 for PC. Five plus years, I believe we are all used to this game capability by now.

You likely don't encounter it if you aren't a PVP player, because you aren't looking for fights or to kill people farming telvar. Further, these people probably wouldn't queue away from you if they don't think you're a threat.

For us PVP players, it is a very common occurrence because the people who abuse this recognize players they fight frequently as threats, and queue out instantly.

It's an exploit, plain and simple. Get me unstuck and imperial retreat sigils are proof that queuing was not intended as a way to exit IC. In order to fix this in a way where it can still be used in combat, but not in the exploitative way it is being used now, they could do the following two things in tandem;

1. Make it take half your telvar if used within a dangerous area in IC. Get me unstuck already takes half your telvar when used anywhere in IC.
2. Remove the half your telvar penalty when used in a safe area within IC. So after going through a door, when on a spawn, or within a sewer base.

Then it wouldn't be able to be abused the way it is now, but would still be a safe exit option for people who aren't specifically exploiting it in combat to avoid dying to other players while farming telvar.

If you don't believe people use the queue in this manner, check out this addon which is publicly available for free.

jaws343 · August 21

For example, this is console UI. No tabs, no jump to section in the first menu. It is not a simple feature to queue in combat on console

Ingenon · August 21

React wrote: »

The capability of this add-on is not available on console. And I agree with @jaws343 and others who have pointed out that the console menu does not allow for one click queue for Cyrodiil while in combat.

ZOS does not need to change base game capability that has existed since at least 2019 to fix an issue that some PvP folks have with the Tel Var Saver add-on.

Separately, I question how folks are recognizing you and leaving apparently before the fighting starts. Are you galloping or running around the city, and they are seeing you coming from half a district away? If you are sneaking or invisible, I don't see how they are leaving before you attack them. And on console with our game menu and all the clicking we have to do to queue to Cyrodiil, we are not going to be able to queue out to Cyrodiil once you attack without dying.

CameraBeardThePirate · August 21

jaws343 wrote: »

React wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

React wrote: »

Ingenon wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Queueing for Cryo from IC must be very different on the PC. I can't just hit a few buttons. I go to the menu select which cryo to go to, click that, then there is at least a 2 sec delay and I have then I to click to accept. In no fight will I live while doing all that. I'm in menu mod and can't even heal.

Exactly. This seems like a pc/add on issue, not a console one.
By the time I’ve opened the menu, I’d be dead! 🤣

Agreed. ZOS, please do not change availability of queue to Cyrodiil on console servers. Players on console cannot queue for Cyrodiil and accept the queue while actively in combat with an enemy PvP. We do not have access to the Tel Var Saver add-on on console servers. If action is needed, please ban the add-on, or make it not work by changing the game interface to add-ons.

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Major_Mangle wrote: »

I feel like a lot of people are missing the point of the thread. Thank you @React in your responses for explaining the issue more clearly. Also, your suggestion about being able to queue out while in a sanctuary zone is a good solution, but as I wrote in my initial comment I also think you should be able to accept a queue if you haven´t done or taken damage from a player within a certain time frame. This allow people to get out if they´re still stuck in combat.

First of all, bringing up the issue of ganking is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand. A ganker either takes you by surprise and with enough burst damage kills you within 1-2 GCD´s, which gives you no time to abuse the queue system, or the fail the attempt to kill their target and once you know a ganker is nearby, you´ve the upper hand because you know what´s coming and can predict further attempts. So in either scenario, bringing up ganking to the discussion is irrelevant.

There seem to be a few things going on here. The OP is upset because some PVPers are using an addon to one click out of a fight they are losing. I think this is a fair point. But before blaming the ability to port out to Cryo, try it on the console with no addons.

I brought up the example with the addon to further highlight the problem. The addon(s) in this case is an issue, but the underlying mechanic I´ve problems with is that you´re allowed to bypass the entire risk/reward design of IC. And as React wrote in an earlier comment you can easily practice the sequence of what buttons to press in order to queue for a campaign, same on PC even without addons.

We should not have to use /stuck and lose half our Tel Var.

For me this is somewhat of an indication that getting out of IC through "un-intended means" is you know....not intended. Not saying it doesn´t suck when you get clipped into terrain/walls etc, but if my suggestion to be able to accept or initiate a queue if you haven´t taken damage within a certain timeframe becomes a thing, it would solve the issue you bring up as well (since you generally speaking can´t hit or get hit by things when you clip into terrain.

@CameraBeardThePirate said it quite perfect

Or, accept that you shouldn't just get to run away from a fight in an environment where fighting over a currency is the main mechanic.

And I want to clarify, escaping through proper means like invis, streaking away, stage 4 vamp sprint or whatever proper combat mechanic that´s available to you (even out tanking the enemy and wait for your group to show up and help you) is fine. But why even have consumables (sigil of imperial retreat) designed to get you to safety in IC, when you can just bypass the entire design of IC.

Queueing for Cryo from IC must be very different on the PC. I can't just hit a few buttons. I go to the menu select which cryo to go to, click that, then there is at least a 2 sec delay and I have then I to click to accept. In no fight will I live while doing all that. I'm in menu mod and can't even heal.

Exactly. This seems like a pc/add on issue, not a console one.
By the time I’ve opened the menu, I’d be dead! 🤣

This isn't at all true. I'm from xbox NA originally, and I now play on PC NA using a controller and the base game UI.

As I mentioned in an earlier comment, it isn't at all difficult to manually do this while in combat with a controller. You simply need to memorize the button combination, which really isn't asking much. It's been quite some time since I've needed to do it, but it's something like Start > RT > down > A > A > A to begin the queue, then when it pops you press start twice (to clear the accept delay), then start > LT > down > A > A. This might not be precisely the correct combos, as I've not had to utilize it in a very long time, but neither function takes more than a second or two to execute and can be done while midair from a jump, or with a defensive ult active to protect yourself.

Navigating menus in combat isn't some crazy feat. Look at games like dark and darker, or any extraction style game. It's a common skill these days.

Yeah, console UI is vastly different than PC UI. Doesn't really matter that you are using a controller to navigate it. Your 1 down is like 6 or 7 downs, and then more downs to choose the right campaign and not accidentally abandon campaign.

Did you read my comment? I'm using a controller with base CONSOLE UI on PC. The people I quoted were suggesting this is impossible on CONSOLE UI.

LT and RT navigate to the bottom of the currently visible menu options. Campaigns are either one up or down from the bottom of where an RT takes you after opening the menu, and notifications (where you accept a queue while in combat) is one down from tbe crown store. Hence the RT > down or LT > down.

There is no "accidently abandoning the campaign", that option is located at the bottom of the campaign window. If you're memorizing the button combo like I've suggested here, that isn't even a somewhat relavent concern.

Again, I don't think you realize that PC and Console UI are different. You using a controller doesn't change the UI differnce.

For example. If I hit start on console (xbox) and hit right trigger to jump to the bottom. Well, that bottom is literally the Log Out menu option.

So, if I follow your directions, I would log out of the game...

On console, to queue for a campaign, you have to start by hitting the down arrow 8 times in the menu. Before you even get to the campaign option. And then once in the Campaign menu, you have to hope that you don't accidentally hit a trigger to the bottom of the menu, because doing that before hitting A will abandon campaign. All that while in combat. Not happening on Console.

The PC UI is the exact same as the console UI if you use a controller.

jaws343 · August 21

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

React wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

React wrote: »

Ingenon wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Queueing for Cryo from IC must be very different on the PC. I can't just hit a few buttons. I go to the menu select which cryo to go to, click that, then there is at least a 2 sec delay and I have then I to click to accept. In no fight will I live while doing all that. I'm in menu mod and can't even heal.

Exactly. This seems like a pc/add on issue, not a console one.
By the time I’ve opened the menu, I’d be dead! 🤣

Agreed. ZOS, please do not change availability of queue to Cyrodiil on console servers. Players on console cannot queue for Cyrodiil and accept the queue while actively in combat with an enemy PvP. We do not have access to the Tel Var Saver add-on on console servers. If action is needed, please ban the add-on, or make it not work by changing the game interface to add-ons.

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Major_Mangle wrote: »

I feel like a lot of people are missing the point of the thread. Thank you @React in your responses for explaining the issue more clearly. Also, your suggestion about being able to queue out while in a sanctuary zone is a good solution, but as I wrote in my initial comment I also think you should be able to accept a queue if you haven´t done or taken damage from a player within a certain time frame. This allow people to get out if they´re still stuck in combat.

First of all, bringing up the issue of ganking is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand. A ganker either takes you by surprise and with enough burst damage kills you within 1-2 GCD´s, which gives you no time to abuse the queue system, or the fail the attempt to kill their target and once you know a ganker is nearby, you´ve the upper hand because you know what´s coming and can predict further attempts. So in either scenario, bringing up ganking to the discussion is irrelevant.

There seem to be a few things going on here. The OP is upset because some PVPers are using an addon to one click out of a fight they are losing. I think this is a fair point. But before blaming the ability to port out to Cryo, try it on the console with no addons.

I brought up the example with the addon to further highlight the problem. The addon(s) in this case is an issue, but the underlying mechanic I´ve problems with is that you´re allowed to bypass the entire risk/reward design of IC. And as React wrote in an earlier comment you can easily practice the sequence of what buttons to press in order to queue for a campaign, same on PC even without addons.

We should not have to use /stuck and lose half our Tel Var.

For me this is somewhat of an indication that getting out of IC through "un-intended means" is you know....not intended. Not saying it doesn´t suck when you get clipped into terrain/walls etc, but if my suggestion to be able to accept or initiate a queue if you haven´t taken damage within a certain timeframe becomes a thing, it would solve the issue you bring up as well (since you generally speaking can´t hit or get hit by things when you clip into terrain.

@CameraBeardThePirate said it quite perfect

Or, accept that you shouldn't just get to run away from a fight in an environment where fighting over a currency is the main mechanic.

And I want to clarify, escaping through proper means like invis, streaking away, stage 4 vamp sprint or whatever proper combat mechanic that´s available to you (even out tanking the enemy and wait for your group to show up and help you) is fine. But why even have consumables (sigil of imperial retreat) designed to get you to safety in IC, when you can just bypass the entire design of IC.

Queueing for Cryo from IC must be very different on the PC. I can't just hit a few buttons. I go to the menu select which cryo to go to, click that, then there is at least a 2 sec delay and I have then I to click to accept. In no fight will I live while doing all that. I'm in menu mod and can't even heal.

Exactly. This seems like a pc/add on issue, not a console one.
By the time I’ve opened the menu, I’d be dead! 🤣

This isn't at all true. I'm from xbox NA originally, and I now play on PC NA using a controller and the base game UI.

As I mentioned in an earlier comment, it isn't at all difficult to manually do this while in combat with a controller. You simply need to memorize the button combination, which really isn't asking much. It's been quite some time since I've needed to do it, but it's something like Start > RT > down > A > A > A to begin the queue, then when it pops you press start twice (to clear the accept delay), then start > LT > down > A > A. This might not be precisely the correct combos, as I've not had to utilize it in a very long time, but neither function takes more than a second or two to execute and can be done while midair from a jump, or with a defensive ult active to protect yourself.

Navigating menus in combat isn't some crazy feat. Look at games like dark and darker, or any extraction style game. It's a common skill these days.

Yeah, console UI is vastly different than PC UI. Doesn't really matter that you are using a controller to navigate it. Your 1 down is like 6 or 7 downs, and then more downs to choose the right campaign and not accidentally abandon campaign.

Did you read my comment? I'm using a controller with base CONSOLE UI on PC. The people I quoted were suggesting this is impossible on CONSOLE UI.

LT and RT navigate to the bottom of the currently visible menu options. Campaigns are either one up or down from the bottom of where an RT takes you after opening the menu, and notifications (where you accept a queue while in combat) is one down from tbe crown store. Hence the RT > down or LT > down.

There is no "accidently abandoning the campaign", that option is located at the bottom of the campaign window. If you're memorizing the button combo like I've suggested here, that isn't even a somewhat relavent concern.

Again, I don't think you realize that PC and Console UI are different. You using a controller doesn't change the UI differnce.

For example. If I hit start on console (xbox) and hit right trigger to jump to the bottom. Well, that bottom is literally the Log Out menu option.

So, if I follow your directions, I would log out of the game...

On console, to queue for a campaign, you have to start by hitting the down arrow 8 times in the menu. Before you even get to the campaign option. And then once in the Campaign menu, you have to hope that you don't accidentally hit a trigger to the bottom of the menu, because doing that before hitting A will abandon campaign. All that while in combat. Not happening on Console.

The PC UI is the exact same as the console UI if you use a controller.

Based on the instructions given to queue into Cyrodil, this is false. Hitting the R trigger after start on console literally takes you to the log out option in the menu.

CameraBeardThePirate · August 21

jaws343 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

React wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

React wrote: »

Ingenon wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Queueing for Cryo from IC must be very different on the PC. I can't just hit a few buttons. I go to the menu select which cryo to go to, click that, then there is at least a 2 sec delay and I have then I to click to accept. In no fight will I live while doing all that. I'm in menu mod and can't even heal.

Exactly. This seems like a pc/add on issue, not a console one.
By the time I’ve opened the menu, I’d be dead! 🤣

Agreed. ZOS, please do not change availability of queue to Cyrodiil on console servers. Players on console cannot queue for Cyrodiil and accept the queue while actively in combat with an enemy PvP. We do not have access to the Tel Var Saver add-on on console servers. If action is needed, please ban the add-on, or make it not work by changing the game interface to add-ons.

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Major_Mangle wrote: »

I feel like a lot of people are missing the point of the thread. Thank you @React in your responses for explaining the issue more clearly. Also, your suggestion about being able to queue out while in a sanctuary zone is a good solution, but as I wrote in my initial comment I also think you should be able to accept a queue if you haven´t done or taken damage from a player within a certain time frame. This allow people to get out if they´re still stuck in combat.

First of all, bringing up the issue of ganking is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand. A ganker either takes you by surprise and with enough burst damage kills you within 1-2 GCD´s, which gives you no time to abuse the queue system, or the fail the attempt to kill their target and once you know a ganker is nearby, you´ve the upper hand because you know what´s coming and can predict further attempts. So in either scenario, bringing up ganking to the discussion is irrelevant.

There seem to be a few things going on here. The OP is upset because some PVPers are using an addon to one click out of a fight they are losing. I think this is a fair point. But before blaming the ability to port out to Cryo, try it on the console with no addons.

I brought up the example with the addon to further highlight the problem. The addon(s) in this case is an issue, but the underlying mechanic I´ve problems with is that you´re allowed to bypass the entire risk/reward design of IC. And as React wrote in an earlier comment you can easily practice the sequence of what buttons to press in order to queue for a campaign, same on PC even without addons.

We should not have to use /stuck and lose half our Tel Var.

For me this is somewhat of an indication that getting out of IC through "un-intended means" is you know....not intended. Not saying it doesn´t suck when you get clipped into terrain/walls etc, but if my suggestion to be able to accept or initiate a queue if you haven´t taken damage within a certain timeframe becomes a thing, it would solve the issue you bring up as well (since you generally speaking can´t hit or get hit by things when you clip into terrain.

@CameraBeardThePirate said it quite perfect

Or, accept that you shouldn't just get to run away from a fight in an environment where fighting over a currency is the main mechanic.

And I want to clarify, escaping through proper means like invis, streaking away, stage 4 vamp sprint or whatever proper combat mechanic that´s available to you (even out tanking the enemy and wait for your group to show up and help you) is fine. But why even have consumables (sigil of imperial retreat) designed to get you to safety in IC, when you can just bypass the entire design of IC.

Queueing for Cryo from IC must be very different on the PC. I can't just hit a few buttons. I go to the menu select which cryo to go to, click that, then there is at least a 2 sec delay and I have then I to click to accept. In no fight will I live while doing all that. I'm in menu mod and can't even heal.

Exactly. This seems like a pc/add on issue, not a console one.
By the time I’ve opened the menu, I’d be dead! 🤣

This isn't at all true. I'm from xbox NA originally, and I now play on PC NA using a controller and the base game UI.

As I mentioned in an earlier comment, it isn't at all difficult to manually do this while in combat with a controller. You simply need to memorize the button combination, which really isn't asking much. It's been quite some time since I've needed to do it, but it's something like Start > RT > down > A > A > A to begin the queue, then when it pops you press start twice (to clear the accept delay), then start > LT > down > A > A. This might not be precisely the correct combos, as I've not had to utilize it in a very long time, but neither function takes more than a second or two to execute and can be done while midair from a jump, or with a defensive ult active to protect yourself.

Navigating menus in combat isn't some crazy feat. Look at games like dark and darker, or any extraction style game. It's a common skill these days.

Yeah, console UI is vastly different than PC UI. Doesn't really matter that you are using a controller to navigate it. Your 1 down is like 6 or 7 downs, and then more downs to choose the right campaign and not accidentally abandon campaign.

Did you read my comment? I'm using a controller with base CONSOLE UI on PC. The people I quoted were suggesting this is impossible on CONSOLE UI.

LT and RT navigate to the bottom of the currently visible menu options. Campaigns are either one up or down from the bottom of where an RT takes you after opening the menu, and notifications (where you accept a queue while in combat) is one down from tbe crown store. Hence the RT > down or LT > down.

There is no "accidently abandoning the campaign", that option is located at the bottom of the campaign window. If you're memorizing the button combo like I've suggested here, that isn't even a somewhat relavent concern.

Again, I don't think you realize that PC and Console UI are different. You using a controller doesn't change the UI differnce.

For example. If I hit start on console (xbox) and hit right trigger to jump to the bottom. Well, that bottom is literally the Log Out menu option.

So, if I follow your directions, I would log out of the game...

On console, to queue for a campaign, you have to start by hitting the down arrow 8 times in the menu. Before you even get to the campaign option. And then once in the Campaign menu, you have to hope that you don't accidentally hit a trigger to the bottom of the menu, because doing that before hitting A will abandon campaign. All that while in combat. Not happening on Console.

The PC UI is the exact same as the console UI if you use a controller.

Based on the instructions given to queue into Cyrodil, this is false. Hitting the R trigger after start on console literally takes you to the log out option in the menu.

His instructions were from memory (which he even admitted as such in his post). The instructions being wrong doesn't mean there isn't a very quick way to queue on Console UI.

The console UI is the exact same as PC UI when you enable Gamepad Support on PC

jaws343 · August 21

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

React wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

React wrote: »

Ingenon wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Queueing for Cryo from IC must be very different on the PC. I can't just hit a few buttons. I go to the menu select which cryo to go to, click that, then there is at least a 2 sec delay and I have then I to click to accept. In no fight will I live while doing all that. I'm in menu mod and can't even heal.

Exactly. This seems like a pc/add on issue, not a console one.
By the time I’ve opened the menu, I’d be dead! 🤣

Agreed. ZOS, please do not change availability of queue to Cyrodiil on console servers. Players on console cannot queue for Cyrodiil and accept the queue while actively in combat with an enemy PvP. We do not have access to the Tel Var Saver add-on on console servers. If action is needed, please ban the add-on, or make it not work by changing the game interface to add-ons.

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Major_Mangle wrote: »

I feel like a lot of people are missing the point of the thread. Thank you @React in your responses for explaining the issue more clearly. Also, your suggestion about being able to queue out while in a sanctuary zone is a good solution, but as I wrote in my initial comment I also think you should be able to accept a queue if you haven´t done or taken damage from a player within a certain time frame. This allow people to get out if they´re still stuck in combat.

First of all, bringing up the issue of ganking is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand. A ganker either takes you by surprise and with enough burst damage kills you within 1-2 GCD´s, which gives you no time to abuse the queue system, or the fail the attempt to kill their target and once you know a ganker is nearby, you´ve the upper hand because you know what´s coming and can predict further attempts. So in either scenario, bringing up ganking to the discussion is irrelevant.

There seem to be a few things going on here. The OP is upset because some PVPers are using an addon to one click out of a fight they are losing. I think this is a fair point. But before blaming the ability to port out to Cryo, try it on the console with no addons.

I brought up the example with the addon to further highlight the problem. The addon(s) in this case is an issue, but the underlying mechanic I´ve problems with is that you´re allowed to bypass the entire risk/reward design of IC. And as React wrote in an earlier comment you can easily practice the sequence of what buttons to press in order to queue for a campaign, same on PC even without addons.

We should not have to use /stuck and lose half our Tel Var.

For me this is somewhat of an indication that getting out of IC through "un-intended means" is you know....not intended. Not saying it doesn´t suck when you get clipped into terrain/walls etc, but if my suggestion to be able to accept or initiate a queue if you haven´t taken damage within a certain timeframe becomes a thing, it would solve the issue you bring up as well (since you generally speaking can´t hit or get hit by things when you clip into terrain.

@CameraBeardThePirate said it quite perfect

Or, accept that you shouldn't just get to run away from a fight in an environment where fighting over a currency is the main mechanic.

And I want to clarify, escaping through proper means like invis, streaking away, stage 4 vamp sprint or whatever proper combat mechanic that´s available to you (even out tanking the enemy and wait for your group to show up and help you) is fine. But why even have consumables (sigil of imperial retreat) designed to get you to safety in IC, when you can just bypass the entire design of IC.

Queueing for Cryo from IC must be very different on the PC. I can't just hit a few buttons. I go to the menu select which cryo to go to, click that, then there is at least a 2 sec delay and I have then I to click to accept. In no fight will I live while doing all that. I'm in menu mod and can't even heal.

Exactly. This seems like a pc/add on issue, not a console one.
By the time I’ve opened the menu, I’d be dead! 🤣

This isn't at all true. I'm from xbox NA originally, and I now play on PC NA using a controller and the base game UI.

As I mentioned in an earlier comment, it isn't at all difficult to manually do this while in combat with a controller. You simply need to memorize the button combination, which really isn't asking much. It's been quite some time since I've needed to do it, but it's something like Start > RT > down > A > A > A to begin the queue, then when it pops you press start twice (to clear the accept delay), then start > LT > down > A > A. This might not be precisely the correct combos, as I've not had to utilize it in a very long time, but neither function takes more than a second or two to execute and can be done while midair from a jump, or with a defensive ult active to protect yourself.

Navigating menus in combat isn't some crazy feat. Look at games like dark and darker, or any extraction style game. It's a common skill these days.

Yeah, console UI is vastly different than PC UI. Doesn't really matter that you are using a controller to navigate it. Your 1 down is like 6 or 7 downs, and then more downs to choose the right campaign and not accidentally abandon campaign.

Did you read my comment? I'm using a controller with base CONSOLE UI on PC. The people I quoted were suggesting this is impossible on CONSOLE UI.

LT and RT navigate to the bottom of the currently visible menu options. Campaigns are either one up or down from the bottom of where an RT takes you after opening the menu, and notifications (where you accept a queue while in combat) is one down from tbe crown store. Hence the RT > down or LT > down.

There is no "accidently abandoning the campaign", that option is located at the bottom of the campaign window. If you're memorizing the button combo like I've suggested here, that isn't even a somewhat relavent concern.

Again, I don't think you realize that PC and Console UI are different. You using a controller doesn't change the UI differnce.

For example. If I hit start on console (xbox) and hit right trigger to jump to the bottom. Well, that bottom is literally the Log Out menu option.

So, if I follow your directions, I would log out of the game...

On console, to queue for a campaign, you have to start by hitting the down arrow 8 times in the menu. Before you even get to the campaign option. And then once in the Campaign menu, you have to hope that you don't accidentally hit a trigger to the bottom of the menu, because doing that before hitting A will abandon campaign. All that while in combat. Not happening on Console.

The PC UI is the exact same as the console UI if you use a controller.

Based on the instructions given to queue into Cyrodil, this is false. Hitting the R trigger after start on console literally takes you to the log out option in the menu.

His instructions were from memory (which he even admitted as such in his post). The instructions being wrong doesn't mean there isn't a very quick way to queue on Console UI.

The console UI is the exact same as PC UI when you enable Gamepad Support on PC

If it is the same, there is no quick way to do this then. I highly doubt it is the same, because even if they were doing it from memory, the layout they described is not remotely close to the layout I posted earlier for actual xbox UI.

Hitting the down arrow 8 times, or hitting it randomly depending on the last menu you were in, is not intuitive in combat.

And then, even once you get into the Campaign menu, you have to hit A. Then you have to navigate to a campaign that has a quick queue. Grey Host is at top, so Grey host is literally a non option for a "retreat" queue into cyrodil since most of the time, you are placed into a queue, which defeats the purpose of trying to do this in combat. So you have to jump down a few campaigns to avoid it and the under 50 campaign.

CameraBeardThePirate · August 21

jaws343 wrote: »

If it is the same, there is no quick way to do this then. I highly doubt it is the same, because even if they were doing it from memory, the layout they described is not remotely close to the layout I posted earlier for actual xbox UI.

Hitting the down arrow 8 times, or hitting it randomly depending on the last menu you were in, is not intuitive in combat.

And then, even once you get into the Campaign menu, you have to hit A. Then you have to navigate to a campaign that has a quick queue. Grey Host is at top, so Grey host is literally a non option for a "retreat" queue into cyrodil since most of the time, you are placed into a queue, which defeats the purpose of trying to do this in combat. So you have to jump down a few campaigns to avoid it and the under 50 campaign.

*GASP* Could that be the exact same UI on PC? NO WAY!

After fiddling, it's pretty easy to queue. Right Trigger> Up 6 times> Spam A. You need to have a home campaign set, and then the home campaign appears at the top. Set your home to ravenwatch and you always have a quick queue.

I was able to queue in about 6 seconds and I don't even typically play with gamepad. Plenty of time to queue when in a SnB ulti, healing ulti, or clown form.

SkaraMinoc · August 21

React wrote: »

Whoever made that addon should have kept it for themselves. What did they think would happen?

React · August 21

jaws343 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

React wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

React wrote: »

Ingenon wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Queueing for Cryo from IC must be very different on the PC. I can't just hit a few buttons. I go to the menu select which cryo to go to, click that, then there is at least a 2 sec delay and I have then I to click to accept. In no fight will I live while doing all that. I'm in menu mod and can't even heal.

Exactly. This seems like a pc/add on issue, not a console one.
By the time I’ve opened the menu, I’d be dead! 🤣

Agreed. ZOS, please do not change availability of queue to Cyrodiil on console servers. Players on console cannot queue for Cyrodiil and accept the queue while actively in combat with an enemy PvP. We do not have access to the Tel Var Saver add-on on console servers. If action is needed, please ban the add-on, or make it not work by changing the game interface to add-ons.

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Major_Mangle wrote: »

I feel like a lot of people are missing the point of the thread. Thank you @React in your responses for explaining the issue more clearly. Also, your suggestion about being able to queue out while in a sanctuary zone is a good solution, but as I wrote in my initial comment I also think you should be able to accept a queue if you haven´t done or taken damage from a player within a certain time frame. This allow people to get out if they´re still stuck in combat.

First of all, bringing up the issue of ganking is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand. A ganker either takes you by surprise and with enough burst damage kills you within 1-2 GCD´s, which gives you no time to abuse the queue system, or the fail the attempt to kill their target and once you know a ganker is nearby, you´ve the upper hand because you know what´s coming and can predict further attempts. So in either scenario, bringing up ganking to the discussion is irrelevant.

There seem to be a few things going on here. The OP is upset because some PVPers are using an addon to one click out of a fight they are losing. I think this is a fair point. But before blaming the ability to port out to Cryo, try it on the console with no addons.

I brought up the example with the addon to further highlight the problem. The addon(s) in this case is an issue, but the underlying mechanic I´ve problems with is that you´re allowed to bypass the entire risk/reward design of IC. And as React wrote in an earlier comment you can easily practice the sequence of what buttons to press in order to queue for a campaign, same on PC even without addons.

We should not have to use /stuck and lose half our Tel Var.

For me this is somewhat of an indication that getting out of IC through "un-intended means" is you know....not intended. Not saying it doesn´t suck when you get clipped into terrain/walls etc, but if my suggestion to be able to accept or initiate a queue if you haven´t taken damage within a certain timeframe becomes a thing, it would solve the issue you bring up as well (since you generally speaking can´t hit or get hit by things when you clip into terrain.

@CameraBeardThePirate said it quite perfect

Or, accept that you shouldn't just get to run away from a fight in an environment where fighting over a currency is the main mechanic.

And I want to clarify, escaping through proper means like invis, streaking away, stage 4 vamp sprint or whatever proper combat mechanic that´s available to you (even out tanking the enemy and wait for your group to show up and help you) is fine. But why even have consumables (sigil of imperial retreat) designed to get you to safety in IC, when you can just bypass the entire design of IC.

Queueing for Cryo from IC must be very different on the PC. I can't just hit a few buttons. I go to the menu select which cryo to go to, click that, then there is at least a 2 sec delay and I have then I to click to accept. In no fight will I live while doing all that. I'm in menu mod and can't even heal.

Exactly. This seems like a pc/add on issue, not a console one.
By the time I’ve opened the menu, I’d be dead! 🤣

This isn't at all true. I'm from xbox NA originally, and I now play on PC NA using a controller and the base game UI.

As I mentioned in an earlier comment, it isn't at all difficult to manually do this while in combat with a controller. You simply need to memorize the button combination, which really isn't asking much. It's been quite some time since I've needed to do it, but it's something like Start > RT > down > A > A > A to begin the queue, then when it pops you press start twice (to clear the accept delay), then start > LT > down > A > A. This might not be precisely the correct combos, as I've not had to utilize it in a very long time, but neither function takes more than a second or two to execute and can be done while midair from a jump, or with a defensive ult active to protect yourself.

Navigating menus in combat isn't some crazy feat. Look at games like dark and darker, or any extraction style game. It's a common skill these days.

Yeah, console UI is vastly different than PC UI. Doesn't really matter that you are using a controller to navigate it. Your 1 down is like 6 or 7 downs, and then more downs to choose the right campaign and not accidentally abandon campaign.

Did you read my comment? I'm using a controller with base CONSOLE UI on PC. The people I quoted were suggesting this is impossible on CONSOLE UI.

LT and RT navigate to the bottom of the currently visible menu options. Campaigns are either one up or down from the bottom of where an RT takes you after opening the menu, and notifications (where you accept a queue while in combat) is one down from tbe crown store. Hence the RT > down or LT > down.

There is no "accidently abandoning the campaign", that option is located at the bottom of the campaign window. If you're memorizing the button combo like I've suggested here, that isn't even a somewhat relavent concern.

Again, I don't think you realize that PC and Console UI are different. You using a controller doesn't change the UI differnce.

For example. If I hit start on console (xbox) and hit right trigger to jump to the bottom. Well, that bottom is literally the Log Out menu option.

So, if I follow your directions, I would log out of the game...

On console, to queue for a campaign, you have to start by hitting the down arrow 8 times in the menu. Before you even get to the campaign option. And then once in the Campaign menu, you have to hope that you don't accidentally hit a trigger to the bottom of the menu, because doing that before hitting A will abandon campaign. All that while in combat. Not happening on Console.

The PC UI is the exact same as the console UI if you use a controller.

Based on the instructions given to queue into Cyrodil, this is false. Hitting the R trigger after start on console literally takes you to the log out option in the menu.

His instructions were from memory (which he even admitted as such in his post). The instructions being wrong doesn't mean there isn't a very quick way to queue on Console UI.

The console UI is the exact same as PC UI when you enable Gamepad Support on PC

If it is the same, there is no quick way to do this then. I highly doubt it is the same, because even if they were doing it from memory, the layout they described is not remotely close to the layout I posted earlier for actual xbox UI.

Hitting the down arrow 8 times, or hitting it randomly depending on the last menu you were in, is not intuitive in combat.

And then, even once you get into the Campaign menu, you have to hit A. Then you have to navigate to a campaign that has a quick queue. Grey Host is at top, so Grey host is literally a non option for a "retreat" queue into cyrodil since most of the time, you are placed into a queue, which defeats the purpose of trying to do this in combat. So you have to jump down a few campaigns to avoid it and the under 50 campaign.

When I'm home this evening, I'll make a video of me doing this in combat, using a controller and console UI with no addons, to demonstrate how quick and easy it is to do manually.

jaws343 · August 21

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

If it is the same, there is no quick way to do this then. I highly doubt it is the same, because even if they were doing it from memory, the layout they described is not remotely close to the layout I posted earlier for actual xbox UI.

Hitting the down arrow 8 times, or hitting it randomly depending on the last menu you were in, is not intuitive in combat.

And then, even once you get into the Campaign menu, you have to hit A. Then you have to navigate to a campaign that has a quick queue. Grey Host is at top, so Grey host is literally a non option for a "retreat" queue into cyrodil since most of the time, you are placed into a queue, which defeats the purpose of trying to do this in combat. So you have to jump down a few campaigns to avoid it and the under 50 campaign.

*GASP* Could that be the exact same UI on PC? NO WAY!

After fiddling, it's pretty easy to queue. Right Trigger> Up 6 times> Spam A. You need to have a home campaign set, and then the home campaign appears at the top. Set your home to ravenwatch and you always have a quick queue.

I was able to queue in about 6 seconds and I don't even typically play with gamepad. Plenty of time to queue when in a SnB ulti, healing ulti, or clown form.

Ah yes, that oh so easy process of:
Set random campaign to home, regardless of which campaign you actually want to home.
Click a minimum of ~10 buttons to enter the queue and then wait in the menu for that queue to initialize and accept it
But don't worry, if you are super fast it is only 6 seconds. 6 seconds in combat that you are apparently so afraid of continuing that you need to jump through hoops to leave and not die.
But don't worry, just pop a defensive ult, no big deal

99% of console players are dying if they attempt this, no matter how well versed in the menu they are.

jaws343 · August 21

To be clear, I am not even saying that entering a queue during combat in IC should be allowed. I agree, it should be removed. I just disagree that doing so on console is an easy or reasonable process.

But, I still think accepting a queue while in IC should be allowed. Punishing players with Tel Var loss because they decided to go into the city while they were in a queue for Cyrodil is a terrible idea. Especially since you can't control when that queue will pop. I've accepted Cyrodil queues while at 50% health left on roaming bosses. Because when the queue hits, the queue hits.

React · August 21

Here you go @jaws343 @Ingenon @MidniteOwl1913 @SerafinaWaterstar .

Using a controller, on console UI (which is identical to how it is on console), and using no addons.

My apologies for the mistaken button combination in my original post - like I had stated, it was from memory and I wasn't sure it was correct. The reality is your menu remembers what interface you opened last, so it is actually even more simple than what I had suggested in my original post.

Start by highlighting the campaign menu before you head into IC. That way the next time you open your menu, it requires no up and down movement or LT/RT to enter the campaign section.

1. Start > A > A > A - Begins the queue
2. When you hear the queue noise a few seconds later, Start > Start will clear the "forced 3 second delay" menu notification.
3. Start > LT > Down > Down > A > A - Accepts the queue.

In the video below, you'll see that from start to finish, I begin the queue and have exited the campaign in under 15 seconds. Furthermore, I spend a total of less than 5 seconds in the menu interfaces, and not consecutively. 2 seconds the first time, less than one second the second time, and 2 seconds the third time. I am actively defending myself the entire time, and I'm not just sitting in the menus for 15 seconds straight.

It is totally realistic to do in combat on console. This isn't just a PC issue, although the addons to auto accept certainly exacerbate the problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWsTZhWxJaM

SeaGtGruff · August 21

I think the main problem with not being able to join a queue while in combat is that you might get "stuck in combat" and then not have a way to leave the area. If a change were to be made, I'd rather it be based on whether you've actually taken damage recently than whether or not you're "in combat," similar to how you can't interact with objects and doors if you've just taken damage but can do so if you're able to avoid taking any more damage for a few seconds.

Mounting in Cyrodiil should probably be reworked to behave the same way-- actively taking damage should prevent you from being able to mount (but shouldn't knock you off your mount if you're already mounted), then after a few seconds you should be able to mount again if you haven't taken any new direct damage (and DOT shouldn't prevent you from mounting).

CameraBeardThePirate · August 21

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I think the main problem with not being able to join a queue while in combat is that you might get "stuck in combat" and then not have a way to leave the area. If a change were to be made, I'd rather it be based on whether you've actually taken damage recently than whether or not you're "in combat," similar to how you can't interact with objects and doors if you've just taken damage but can do so if you're able to avoid taking any more damage for a few seconds.

Mounting in Cyrodiil should probably be reworked to behave the same way-- actively taking damage should prevent you from being able to mount (but shouldn't knock you off your mount if you're already mounted), then after a few seconds you should be able to mount again if you haven't taken any new direct damage (and DOT shouldn't prevent you from mounting).

This is what most of us are actually suggesting. Make it similar to the doors in IC; if you've dealt damage recently or taken damage recently, you can't start a new queue. You wouldn't be prohibited from queueing in combat, nor would you be prohibited from accepting a queue you were already waiting in.

MidniteOwl1913 · August 21

React wrote: »

Ingenon wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Queueing for Cryo from IC must be very different on the PC. I can't just hit a few buttons. I go to the menu select which cryo to go to, click that, then there is at least a 2 sec delay and I have then I to click to accept. In no fight will I live while doing all that. I'm in menu mod and can't even heal.

Exactly. This seems like a pc/add on issue, not a console one.
By the time I’ve opened the menu, I’d be dead! 🤣

Agreed. ZOS, please do not change availability of queue to Cyrodiil on console servers. Players on console cannot queue for Cyrodiil and accept the queue while actively in combat with an enemy PvP. We do not have access to the Tel Var Saver add-on on console servers. If action is needed, please ban the add-on, or make it not work by changing the game interface to add-ons.

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Major_Mangle wrote: »

I feel like a lot of people are missing the point of the thread. Thank you @React in your responses for explaining the issue more clearly. Also, your suggestion about being able to queue out while in a sanctuary zone is a good solution, but as I wrote in my initial comment I also think you should be able to accept a queue if you haven´t done or taken damage from a player within a certain time frame. This allow people to get out if they´re still stuck in combat.

First of all, bringing up the issue of ganking is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand. A ganker either takes you by surprise and with enough burst damage kills you within 1-2 GCD´s, which gives you no time to abuse the queue system, or the fail the attempt to kill their target and once you know a ganker is nearby, you´ve the upper hand because you know what´s coming and can predict further attempts. So in either scenario, bringing up ganking to the discussion is irrelevant.

There seem to be a few things going on here. The OP is upset because some PVPers are using an addon to one click out of a fight they are losing. I think this is a fair point. But before blaming the ability to port out to Cryo, try it on the console with no addons.

I brought up the example with the addon to further highlight the problem. The addon(s) in this case is an issue, but the underlying mechanic I´ve problems with is that you´re allowed to bypass the entire risk/reward design of IC. And as React wrote in an earlier comment you can easily practice the sequence of what buttons to press in order to queue for a campaign, same on PC even without addons.

We should not have to use /stuck and lose half our Tel Var.

For me this is somewhat of an indication that getting out of IC through "un-intended means" is you know....not intended. Not saying it doesn´t suck when you get clipped into terrain/walls etc, but if my suggestion to be able to accept or initiate a queue if you haven´t taken damage within a certain timeframe becomes a thing, it would solve the issue you bring up as well (since you generally speaking can´t hit or get hit by things when you clip into terrain.

@CameraBeardThePirate said it quite perfect

Or, accept that you shouldn't just get to run away from a fight in an environment where fighting over a currency is the main mechanic.

And I want to clarify, escaping through proper means like invis, streaking away, stage 4 vamp sprint or whatever proper combat mechanic that´s available to you (even out tanking the enemy and wait for your group to show up and help you) is fine. But why even have consumables (sigil of imperial retreat) designed to get you to safety in IC, when you can just bypass the entire design of IC.

Queueing for Cryo from IC must be very different on the PC. I can't just hit a few buttons. I go to the menu select which cryo to go to, click that, then there is at least a 2 sec delay and I have then I to click to accept. In no fight will I live while doing all that. I'm in menu mod and can't even heal.

Exactly. This seems like a pc/add on issue, not a console one.
By the time I’ve opened the menu, I’d be dead! 🤣

This isn't at all true. I'm from xbox NA originally, and I now play on PC NA using a controller and the base game UI.

As I mentioned in an earlier comment, it isn't at all difficult to manually do this while in combat with a controller. You simply need to memorize the button combination, which really isn't asking much. It's been quite some time since I've needed to do it, but it's something like Start > RT > down > A > A > A to begin the queue, then when it pops you press start twice (to clear the accept delay), then start > LT > down > A > A. This might not be precisely the correct combos, as I've not had to utilize it in a very long time, but neither function takes more than a second or two to execute and can be done while midair from a jump, or with a defensive ult active to protect yourself.

Navigating menus in combat isn't some crazy feat. Look at games like dark and darker, or any extraction style game. It's a common skill these days.

Ok, but that's not how it works on the PlayStation. I can't press x multiple times and get out of IC. I have to use the menu. It takes more than 10 seconds and I'm in menu mode the whole time. I'm dead before I can leave. On the PlayStation while in menu mode you can't do anything else. My toon will just stand there like a target dummy.

CameraBeardThePirate · August 21

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

React wrote: »

Ingenon wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Queueing for Cryo from IC must be very different on the PC. I can't just hit a few buttons. I go to the menu select which cryo to go to, click that, then there is at least a 2 sec delay and I have then I to click to accept. In no fight will I live while doing all that. I'm in menu mod and can't even heal.

Exactly. This seems like a pc/add on issue, not a console one.
By the time I’ve opened the menu, I’d be dead! 🤣

Agreed. ZOS, please do not change availability of queue to Cyrodiil on console servers. Players on console cannot queue for Cyrodiil and accept the queue while actively in combat with an enemy PvP. We do not have access to the Tel Var Saver add-on on console servers. If action is needed, please ban the add-on, or make it not work by changing the game interface to add-ons.

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Major_Mangle wrote: »

I feel like a lot of people are missing the point of the thread. Thank you @React in your responses for explaining the issue more clearly. Also, your suggestion about being able to queue out while in a sanctuary zone is a good solution, but as I wrote in my initial comment I also think you should be able to accept a queue if you haven´t done or taken damage from a player within a certain time frame. This allow people to get out if they´re still stuck in combat.

First of all, bringing up the issue of ganking is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand. A ganker either takes you by surprise and with enough burst damage kills you within 1-2 GCD´s, which gives you no time to abuse the queue system, or the fail the attempt to kill their target and once you know a ganker is nearby, you´ve the upper hand because you know what´s coming and can predict further attempts. So in either scenario, bringing up ganking to the discussion is irrelevant.

There seem to be a few things going on here. The OP is upset because some PVPers are using an addon to one click out of a fight they are losing. I think this is a fair point. But before blaming the ability to port out to Cryo, try it on the console with no addons.

I brought up the example with the addon to further highlight the problem. The addon(s) in this case is an issue, but the underlying mechanic I´ve problems with is that you´re allowed to bypass the entire risk/reward design of IC. And as React wrote in an earlier comment you can easily practice the sequence of what buttons to press in order to queue for a campaign, same on PC even without addons.

We should not have to use /stuck and lose half our Tel Var.

For me this is somewhat of an indication that getting out of IC through "un-intended means" is you know....not intended. Not saying it doesn´t suck when you get clipped into terrain/walls etc, but if my suggestion to be able to accept or initiate a queue if you haven´t taken damage within a certain timeframe becomes a thing, it would solve the issue you bring up as well (since you generally speaking can´t hit or get hit by things when you clip into terrain.

@CameraBeardThePirate said it quite perfect

Or, accept that you shouldn't just get to run away from a fight in an environment where fighting over a currency is the main mechanic.

And I want to clarify, escaping through proper means like invis, streaking away, stage 4 vamp sprint or whatever proper combat mechanic that´s available to you (even out tanking the enemy and wait for your group to show up and help you) is fine. But why even have consumables (sigil of imperial retreat) designed to get you to safety in IC, when you can just bypass the entire design of IC.

Queueing for Cryo from IC must be very different on the PC. I can't just hit a few buttons. I go to the menu select which cryo to go to, click that, then there is at least a 2 sec delay and I have then I to click to accept. In no fight will I live while doing all that. I'm in menu mod and can't even heal.

Exactly. This seems like a pc/add on issue, not a console one.
By the time I’ve opened the menu, I’d be dead! 🤣

This isn't at all true. I'm from xbox NA originally, and I now play on PC NA using a controller and the base game UI.

As I mentioned in an earlier comment, it isn't at all difficult to manually do this while in combat with a controller. You simply need to memorize the button combination, which really isn't asking much. It's been quite some time since I've needed to do it, but it's something like Start > RT > down > A > A > A to begin the queue, then when it pops you press start twice (to clear the accept delay), then start > LT > down > A > A. This might not be precisely the correct combos, as I've not had to utilize it in a very long time, but neither function takes more than a second or two to execute and can be done while midair from a jump, or with a defensive ult active to protect yourself.

Navigating menus in combat isn't some crazy feat. Look at games like dark and darker, or any extraction style game. It's a common skill these days.

Ok, but that's not how it works on the PlayStation. I can't press x multiple times and get out of IC. I have to use the menu. It takes more than 10 seconds and I'm in menu mode the whole time. I'm dead before I can leave. On the PlayStation while in menu mode you can't do anything else. My toon will just stand there like a target dummy.

Did you not watch the video React posted 3 comments above? You can memorize the buttons to press and do it with very little time spent in the menu.

People can and DO queue out of IC mid combat in gamepad mode.

React · August 21

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

React wrote: »

Ingenon wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Queueing for Cryo from IC must be very different on the PC. I can't just hit a few buttons. I go to the menu select which cryo to go to, click that, then there is at least a 2 sec delay and I have then I to click to accept. In no fight will I live while doing all that. I'm in menu mod and can't even heal.

Exactly. This seems like a pc/add on issue, not a console one.
By the time I’ve opened the menu, I’d be dead! 🤣

Agreed. ZOS, please do not change availability of queue to Cyrodiil on console servers. Players on console cannot queue for Cyrodiil and accept the queue while actively in combat with an enemy PvP. We do not have access to the Tel Var Saver add-on on console servers. If action is needed, please ban the add-on, or make it not work by changing the game interface to add-ons.

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Major_Mangle wrote: »

I feel like a lot of people are missing the point of the thread. Thank you @React in your responses for explaining the issue more clearly. Also, your suggestion about being able to queue out while in a sanctuary zone is a good solution, but as I wrote in my initial comment I also think you should be able to accept a queue if you haven´t done or taken damage from a player within a certain time frame. This allow people to get out if they´re still stuck in combat.

First of all, bringing up the issue of ganking is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand. A ganker either takes you by surprise and with enough burst damage kills you within 1-2 GCD´s, which gives you no time to abuse the queue system, or the fail the attempt to kill their target and once you know a ganker is nearby, you´ve the upper hand because you know what´s coming and can predict further attempts. So in either scenario, bringing up ganking to the discussion is irrelevant.

There seem to be a few things going on here. The OP is upset because some PVPers are using an addon to one click out of a fight they are losing. I think this is a fair point. But before blaming the ability to port out to Cryo, try it on the console with no addons.

I brought up the example with the addon to further highlight the problem. The addon(s) in this case is an issue, but the underlying mechanic I´ve problems with is that you´re allowed to bypass the entire risk/reward design of IC. And as React wrote in an earlier comment you can easily practice the sequence of what buttons to press in order to queue for a campaign, same on PC even without addons.

We should not have to use /stuck and lose half our Tel Var.

For me this is somewhat of an indication that getting out of IC through "un-intended means" is you know....not intended. Not saying it doesn´t suck when you get clipped into terrain/walls etc, but if my suggestion to be able to accept or initiate a queue if you haven´t taken damage within a certain timeframe becomes a thing, it would solve the issue you bring up as well (since you generally speaking can´t hit or get hit by things when you clip into terrain.

@CameraBeardThePirate said it quite perfect

Or, accept that you shouldn't just get to run away from a fight in an environment where fighting over a currency is the main mechanic.

And I want to clarify, escaping through proper means like invis, streaking away, stage 4 vamp sprint or whatever proper combat mechanic that´s available to you (even out tanking the enemy and wait for your group to show up and help you) is fine. But why even have consumables (sigil of imperial retreat) designed to get you to safety in IC, when you can just bypass the entire design of IC.

Queueing for Cryo from IC must be very different on the PC. I can't just hit a few buttons. I go to the menu select which cryo to go to, click that, then there is at least a 2 sec delay and I have then I to click to accept. In no fight will I live while doing all that. I'm in menu mod and can't even heal.

Exactly. This seems like a pc/add on issue, not a console one.
By the time I’ve opened the menu, I’d be dead! 🤣

This isn't at all true. I'm from xbox NA originally, and I now play on PC NA using a controller and the base game UI.

As I mentioned in an earlier comment, it isn't at all difficult to manually do this while in combat with a controller. You simply need to memorize the button combination, which really isn't asking much. It's been quite some time since I've needed to do it, but it's something like Start > RT > down > A > A > A to begin the queue, then when it pops you press start twice (to clear the accept delay), then start > LT > down > A > A. This might not be precisely the correct combos, as I've not had to utilize it in a very long time, but neither function takes more than a second or two to execute and can be done while midair from a jump, or with a defensive ult active to protect yourself.

Navigating menus in combat isn't some crazy feat. Look at games like dark and darker, or any extraction style game. It's a common skill these days.

Ok, but that's not how it works on the PlayStation. I can't press x multiple times and get out of IC. I have to use the menu. It takes more than 10 seconds and I'm in menu mode the whole time. I'm dead before I can leave. On the PlayStation while in menu mode you can't do anything else. My toon will just stand there like a target dummy.

This just isn't true. Watch the video in the comment I tagged you in (not the one you just responded to, from much earlier in the thread). I am using a controller on console UI, and I demonstrate exactly how to do this while in combat. I am using the menu, and I don't get stuck in it.

It's sort of beside the point of this thread, but seeing so many people using blatant misinformation to argue against the removal of a literal exploit is actually insane.

MidniteOwl1913 · August 21

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

React wrote: »

Ingenon wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Queueing for Cryo from IC must be very different on the PC. I can't just hit a few buttons. I go to the menu select which cryo to go to, click that, then there is at least a 2 sec delay and I have then I to click to accept. In no fight will I live while doing all that. I'm in menu mod and can't even heal.

Exactly. This seems like a pc/add on issue, not a console one.
By the time I’ve opened the menu, I’d be dead! 🤣

Agreed. ZOS, please do not change availability of queue to Cyrodiil on console servers. Players on console cannot queue for Cyrodiil and accept the queue while actively in combat with an enemy PvP. We do not have access to the Tel Var Saver add-on on console servers. If action is needed, please ban the add-on, or make it not work by changing the game interface to add-ons.

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Major_Mangle wrote: »

I feel like a lot of people are missing the point of the thread. Thank you @React in your responses for explaining the issue more clearly. Also, your suggestion about being able to queue out while in a sanctuary zone is a good solution, but as I wrote in my initial comment I also think you should be able to accept a queue if you haven´t done or taken damage from a player within a certain time frame. This allow people to get out if they´re still stuck in combat.

First of all, bringing up the issue of ganking is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand. A ganker either takes you by surprise and with enough burst damage kills you within 1-2 GCD´s, which gives you no time to abuse the queue system, or the fail the attempt to kill their target and once you know a ganker is nearby, you´ve the upper hand because you know what´s coming and can predict further attempts. So in either scenario, bringing up ganking to the discussion is irrelevant.

There seem to be a few things going on here. The OP is upset because some PVPers are using an addon to one click out of a fight they are losing. I think this is a fair point. But before blaming the ability to port out to Cryo, try it on the console with no addons.

I brought up the example with the addon to further highlight the problem. The addon(s) in this case is an issue, but the underlying mechanic I´ve problems with is that you´re allowed to bypass the entire risk/reward design of IC. And as React wrote in an earlier comment you can easily practice the sequence of what buttons to press in order to queue for a campaign, same on PC even without addons.

We should not have to use /stuck and lose half our Tel Var.

For me this is somewhat of an indication that getting out of IC through "un-intended means" is you know....not intended. Not saying it doesn´t suck when you get clipped into terrain/walls etc, but if my suggestion to be able to accept or initiate a queue if you haven´t taken damage within a certain timeframe becomes a thing, it would solve the issue you bring up as well (since you generally speaking can´t hit or get hit by things when you clip into terrain.

@CameraBeardThePirate said it quite perfect

Or, accept that you shouldn't just get to run away from a fight in an environment where fighting over a currency is the main mechanic.

And I want to clarify, escaping through proper means like invis, streaking away, stage 4 vamp sprint or whatever proper combat mechanic that´s available to you (even out tanking the enemy and wait for your group to show up and help you) is fine. But why even have consumables (sigil of imperial retreat) designed to get you to safety in IC, when you can just bypass the entire design of IC.

Queueing for Cryo from IC must be very different on the PC. I can't just hit a few buttons. I go to the menu select which cryo to go to, click that, then there is at least a 2 sec delay and I have then I to click to accept. In no fight will I live while doing all that. I'm in menu mod and can't even heal.

Exactly. This seems like a pc/add on issue, not a console one.
By the time I’ve opened the menu, I’d be dead! 🤣

This isn't at all true. I'm from xbox NA originally, and I now play on PC NA using a controller and the base game UI.

As I mentioned in an earlier comment, it isn't at all difficult to manually do this while in combat with a controller. You simply need to memorize the button combination, which really isn't asking much. It's been quite some time since I've needed to do it, but it's something like Start > RT > down > A > A > A to begin the queue, then when it pops you press start twice (to clear the accept delay), then start > LT > down > A > A. This might not be precisely the correct combos, as I've not had to utilize it in a very long time, but neither function takes more than a second or two to execute and can be done while midair from a jump, or with a defensive ult active to protect yourself.

Navigating menus in combat isn't some crazy feat. Look at games like dark and darker, or any extraction style game. It's a common skill these days.

Ok, but that's not how it works on the PlayStation. I can't press x multiple times and get out of IC. I have to use the menu. It takes more than 10 seconds and I'm in menu mode the whole time. I'm dead before I can leave. On the PlayStation while in menu mode you can't do anything else. My toon will just stand there like a target dummy.

Did you not watch the video React posted 3 comments above? You can memorize the buttons to press and do it with very little time spent in the menu.

People can and DO queue out of IC mid combat in gamepad mode.

I tried it. It takes me about 7 seconds. Four initially and then another 3 after the 2 second queue time. My reflexes are *nowhere* near as fast as React's. I'm old no apologies. I'm pretty sure I would still be dead before I exited.

TBH I don't think even many younger players are that fast. Possible doesn't mean common...

SeaGtGruff · August 21

Well, it's up to ZOS to decide whether it's actually an "exploit."

As for "blatant misinformation," it was claimed that the statements about being able to queue for a different campaign back before IC got its own campaigns was "misinformation," but it absolutely was possible to do so. One can be honestly mistaken about something, and calling someone's mistaken remark "blatant misinformation" kind of seems to suggest that it's some form of deliberate disinformation. I didn't know about cross-campaign "guest" queuing back in the day until I saw someone mention it and I tried it myself, so I can imagine there were players who never realized it was a thing. We can't turn back time to prove or disprove whether something used to be possible, but we can look for confirmation in old posts from back then.

One thing I found interesting while reading through old posts from before the PvP campaign changes made in Update 22 were comments from people who said that we couldn't start a queue if we were in combat. Unfortunately, I don't know if that was actually so or just a mistaken assumption-- I don't remember whether I ever tried to do that back then-- but it made me wonder if the ability to queue while in combat might be a relatively new thing, perhaps added to help players get around the "stuck in combat" condition. (I hesitate to call it a "bug," since for all I know it might be working exactly as intended.)

In any case, I'd be in favor of removing the ability for scripts and addons to access queue-related functions, and for removing the ability to join a queue if any direct damage has been received within the last couple of seconds. I mean, if I'm not allowed to open a door while an NPC or mob is attacking me, it seems odd to let me start a new queue while I'm under attack.