Porting out of IC (Imperial City) when fighting other players needs a fix!

Major_Mangle

The situation where players port out of IC in order to avoid losing telvar stones to another player is abused on a regular basis and needs to be adjusted. Why have items such as sigil of imperial retreat (it´s entire purpose is to be used to safely get away with your stones), when you can simply just queue out to an empty campaign with 0 downsides. Players on PC even use addons that do this things automatically depending on your HP to telvar ratio, or addons which allows you to bind hotkeys to start the queue for them. The option to do this removes the entire risk/reward situation completely which shouldn´t be the case. I´ve 0 issues with people who uses tactics such as invisibility potions, stag 4 vamp sprint to get into invis and get away (or any other proper strategy to get away).

My suggestions to adjust this:
1. Doing damage or taking damage from a player within 30 seconds prevents you from accepting the queue and leaving IC this way.
2. Queueing out of IC while in combat with another player makes you lose the same amount of stones as if you died to said player.
3. Keep the current mechanic but make it so your character stays in IC for another 10-15 seconds before porting out.

OsUfi

Can you queue if you're in combat? If someone has time to open the Cyro window, queue for a campaign, get into queue, accept a queue request all while being attacked you're not doing enough DPS.

If they've queued before combat, then thats just poor timing. Tough boobies.

Major_Mangle

OsUfi wrote: »

Can you queue if you're in combat? If someone has time to open the Cyro window, queue for a campaign, get into queue, accept a queue request all while being attacked you're not doing enough DPS.

If they've queued before combat, then thats just poor timing. Tough boobies.

Yes you can start the queue while in combat. And you don´t need to open up several menus to do this. As I wrote, on PC (where I play) you can execute the entire procedure with the click of key (through addons) and you can even do this without the need to press a key at all since there are addons that allows you to set a custom HP threshold and if you drop below that HP threshold (you can also set how much telvar you need to carry for this sequence to start) you´ll automatically enter the queue.

Vulkunne

Major_Mangle wrote: »

The situation where players port out of IC in order to avoid losing telvar stones to another player is abused on a regular basis and needs to be adjusted. Why have items such as sigil of imperial retreat (it´s entire purpose is to be used to safely get away with your stones), when you can simply just queue out to an empty campaign with 0 downsides. Players on PC even use addons that do this things automatically depending on your HP to telvar ratio, or addons which allows you to bind hotkeys to start the queue for them. The option to do this removes the entire risk/reward situation completely which shouldn´t be the case. I´ve 0 issues with people who uses tactics such as invisibility potions, stag 4 vamp sprint to get into invis and get away (or any other proper strategy to get away).

My suggestions to adjust this:
1. Doing damage or taking damage from a player within 30 seconds prevents you from accepting the queue and leaving IC this way.
2. Queueing out of IC while in combat with another player makes you lose the same amount of stones as if you died to said player.
3. Keep the current mechanic but make it so your character stays in IC for another 10-15 seconds before porting out.

I completely agree. Back in the day, this wasn't as big a deal but it's now to the point of being ridiculous and has become too common a practice. There are some out there who leave the very moment you attack them or if they even see you... they gone. It's just sad man. And I saw that post regarding people using those addons, ummm that should be treated as 3rd party cheating software and banned from the game. I'd start with that.

fedouva

Those who use this mechanics will be very unhappy with your proposal, so it will be accepted with 0.0001% probability.

davidtk

I didn't saw addon with HP treshold for queue to Cyro/IC, lol.
TelVar Saver addon have telvar treshold with keybindings yes.
You can queue from IC to Cyro and vice versa, yes.
On every platform, yes.
Many new players even not know that they can bank telvars and APs.
So, even on console you can do that so why you want change it?
PvErs, low CPs etc will not be happy about this change. How long it is there? Whole time with IC?

Edit: About banking and queueing... That doesn't know even older players.
btw, during MyM queue is so buggy that even if you confirm tp nothing will happen.

Bammlschwamml

davidtk wrote: »

So, even on console you can do that so why you want change it?

Technically yes, you could do this on console too. But you would have to dig around in your menu and wait for a while until you can travel. It's way more complicated and unreliable than on pc. Especially when you are in the middle of a fight. As far as i know there are not a lot of players doing this on console. At least not to flee from fights.

But it's a good workaround for the infight bug, and stuff like getting glitched into to stairs/walls etc. So i really hope it stays in the game. Maybe with some changes for pc players.

TheDarkRuler

Major_Mangle wrote: »

My suggestions to adjust this:
1. Doing damage or taking damage from a player within 30 seconds prevents you from accepting the queue and leaving IC this way.
2. Queueing out of IC while in combat with another player makes you lose the same amount of stones as if you died to said player.
3. Keep the current mechanic but make it so your character stays in IC for another 10-15 seconds before porting out.

1st sounds solid and could be ok but what about group queues. Will group members be forced to stay too or will the group be disbanded then?
2nd is bad because ZOS never managed to fix combat bug ever since release and you get stuck forever in IC too.
3rd loading screen time should never allow your character be wounded/killed. Otherwise we'd have ton of additional issues.

I tend to use IC => Cyro to bank my Tel'Var too but I just go into one vault or through a door and can queue there in the armistice.

Yudo

This is heavily exploited right now. Not being able to queue while combat sounds like something you would expect.
Same way you cannot use a shrine or logout while in combat.
In case of group queue, those who are in combat will fail and need to solo queue?

I guess the challenge is that this queue is similar to the dungeon queue, it has higher priority than combat? In that case maybe it can be change to the other type.

Combat bug is still pain, sometimes I cannot exit cyro because of combat but and the only way to solve it is to queue for IC, that would perma lock me in cyro.

Four_Fingers

Oh, the injustice of it all to those NB gankers.
Sometimes you just need to get out in a hurry.

SkaraMinoc

Being able to port out of IC with Tel Var during PvP does seem like an odd feature to have. But there's reasons for it.

However, I don't see much of an issue with the addon. You can absolutely be killed before the IC->Cyrodiil timer goes off, even if there's an auto queue and auto accept. Porting out can take anywhere from 7 seconds all the way up to 15+ seconds during bad server performance. I've killed many Tel Var farmers before they could port out using their addon.

SkaraMinoc

Vulkunne wrote: »

And I saw that post regarding people using those addons, ummm that should be treated as 3rd party cheating software and banned from the game.

The ESO Lua API is not 3rd party cheating software. If there's an issue with the API where players are making addons that are against the spirit of PvP, ESO, etc. then ZOS should change the API.

RexyCat

OP suggestion is to remove the possibility to get to Cyrodiil from IC (and vv) and still be able to do things in IC/Cyrodiil until they get teleported out as queue time can be very long depending on which campaign one want to join.

The other issue is that OP claim that player in combat can get out of a campaign which should be stopped according to OP.

The issue here is that if a player is in combat and the underlaying system for teleportation will be prevented to work (as player in combat will not be able to confirm that they will want to join another campaign when that option pop up) then how are this supposed to work? Will the underlaying system now have an added time frame where player will not see any pop up until they are out of combat and then can teleport or how are this going to work?

So what about player that are using invis pots, are sneaking to avoid getting hit by gankers and then suddenly get in combat (this can happen if you aggro NPC as well as another player start attacking) and that same time this pop up to get to another campaign is happening?

How will OP even know that player that are vanish are getting to another campaign or are using add on to auto teleport as fast they are in danger while still be in combat?

We have already enough of in combat bug in PvE content and most likely the same issue will happen in PvP zones where you can not get out combat which means you have very limited means to use any item that are allowed while still being in combat such as you can not mount or open inventory.

When that bug happens you can literally not even log out of game, but need use quit. So while understand it can be annoying if somebody start a fight and then just are removed from game to another campaign, I can also understand that OP have no way to know if that isn't a player that have been hit by this bug or are using it to avoid loosing TV.

Will player that want to change to another campaign now be forced to stay in a safe zone until there is a empty slot for that campaign and then teleport to that campaign or will they still be able to do stuff that are related to PvE with this suggestion to prevent player from changing campaign while in combat?

Will that improve anything and for who?

Is that even such a large issue as most players in IC or Cyrodiil that don't want to loose their TV aren't going to start a fight and just teleport out to avoid loosing even more TV (AP can't be lost so this seem to be an IC centric issue) that there is need to do any changes at all to add on or how changing campaign work?

Orbital78

I would rather they just totally remove losing tel var all together. It might entice more people to visit IC.

BahometZ

How is this abuse? Who is being wronged here?
Sounds like sour grapes. IC is so barren who honestly thinks that *this* is an issue worth prosecuting.

CrazyKitty

Major_Mangle wrote: »

The situation where players port out of IC in order to avoid losing telvar stones to another player is abused on a regular basis and needs to be adjusted. Why have items such as sigil of imperial retreat (it´s entire purpose is to be used to safely get away with your stones), when you can simply just queue out to an empty campaign with 0 downsides. Players on PC even use addons that do this things automatically depending on your HP to telvar ratio, or addons which allows you to bind hotkeys to start the queue for them. The option to do this removes the entire risk/reward situation completely which shouldn´t be the case. I´ve 0 issues with people who uses tactics such as invisibility potions, stag 4 vamp sprint to get into invis and get away (or any other proper strategy to get away).

My suggestions to adjust this:
1. Doing damage or taking damage from a player within 30 seconds prevents you from accepting the queue and leaving IC this way.
2. Queueing out of IC while in combat with another player makes you lose the same amount of stones as if you died to said player.
3. Keep the current mechanic but make it so your character stays in IC for another 10-15 seconds before porting out.

No fix is needed on this front. It's already a gankers paradise in IC. The gankers already have the upper hand so significantly that it keeps most players from ever even entering the zone unless there is an event going and they need event tickets.

It's virtually impossible to queue for Cyrodiil while engaged in a fight and have queue hit before the fight is over.

This is not a problem and there is nothing to fix.

FayJolyn

if the penalty for dying wasn't so big then I actually would engage more with IC. it's only worth it for gankers and meta pvp'ers. I only occasionally pvp and if I do a daily i go out of my way to avoid conflict. if the porting out feature ever gets "fixed" then I'll never set foot in IC again tbh.

davidtk

Bammlschwamml wrote: »

davidtk wrote: »

So, even on console you can do that so why you want change it?

Technically yes, you could do this on console too. But you would have to dig around in your menu and wait for a while until you can travel. It's way more complicated and unreliable than on pc. Especially when you are in the middle of a fight. As far as i know there are not a lot of players doing this on console. At least not to flee from fights.

But it's a good workaround for the infight bug, and stuff like getting glitched into to stairs/walls etc. So i really hope it stays in the game. Maybe with some changes for pc players.

Yea, I hard imagine that pain to work with console UI in some situations.
On PC just hit "L" and double click on any campaign. In fight it is about skills with mouse and keyboard and then you must just listen to sounds because when you hear notification you must go via "N" or "L" and confirm port.
Ofc with addon it is super easy with tresholds or keybind.

BahometZ wrote: »

How is this abuse? Who is being wronged here?
Sounds like sour grapes. IC is so barren who honestly thinks that *this* is an issue worth prosecuting.

Agree, there is not any exploit/abuse or something wrong to do it.

davidtk

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Being able to port out of IC with Tel Var during PvP does seem like an odd feature to have.

However, I don't see much of an issue with the addon. You can absolutely be killed before the IC->Cyrodiil timer goes off, even if there's an auto queue and auto accept. Porting out can take anywhere from 7 seconds all the way up to 15+ seconds during bad server performance. I've killed many Tel Var farmers before they could port out using their addon.

On MyM queues almost didn'T worked well.
You'll run behind a gate or balcony when no one kills you, and you still won't port even after confirmation because the server didn't get a confirmation response. Rofl

Theist_VII

Porting out of IC at all is a problem, irregardless of whether you’re in combat.

When IC was designed, they had planned for everyone to have to fight their way back to their home base or die in order to bank their tel-var.

That’s why they put the grates down into the sewers from above, and the more knowledgeable you are of the city, the faster you could get out and back to your home base.

Orbital78

Major_Mangle wrote: »

Players on PC even use addons that do this things automatically depending on your HP to telvar ratio, or addons which allows you to bind hotkeys to start the queue for them.

Wow, that is amazing. I didn't even know this existed, I will definitely check it out. Manually doing it isn't hard but a simple keybind is even more handy. Cheers.

Dax_Draconis

I didn't know this was a thing. Thanks!

ESO_player123

What was the name of that addon?

Yudo

Theist_VII wrote: »

Porting out of IC at all is a problem, irregardless of whether you’re in combat.

When IC was designed, they had planned for everyone to have to fight their way back to their home base or die in order to bank their tel-var.

That’s why they put the grates down into the sewers from above, and the more knowledgeable you are of the city, the faster you could get out and back to your home base.

You can even buy port back stones for this purpose with telvar, but why even bother when you can just queue out It does not add up.

ESO_player123

Yudo wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

Porting out of IC at all is a problem, irregardless of whether you’re in combat.

When IC was designed, they had planned for everyone to have to fight their way back to their home base or die in order to bank their tel-var.

That’s why they put the grates down into the sewers from above, and the more knowledgeable you are of the city, the faster you could get out and back to your home base.

You can even buy port back stones for this purpose with telvar, but why even bother when you can just queue out It does not add up.

If they remove the ability to queue while NOT in combat, I will not bother coming to IC at all. I do not PvP, and I do not farm telvar. I come there to occasionally use the keys that I get from events and hunt for lore books. If I have to go through the sewers back to the base each time I check the bookshelves then it's a waste of time.

davidtk

ESO_player123 wrote: »

What was the name of that addon?

TelVar Saver for example
TV limit for automatic queue, backup campaign (and during MyM it knows mym campaigns), keybind for fast queue , auto saving TVs in the bank

joe_schmo

No, it doesn't need to be fixed. I'd rather not get ganked and lose 10,000 tel var after doing all the work to kill the boss myself. They will sit there and watch me port away, and they will deal with it.

Personofsecrets

Between class imbalance that allows some class great survivability via movement, over time effects like elemental susceptibility, door trolling, and ineffective sigil of imperial retreats, the que system is something that helps improve the game.

zaria

Major_Mangle wrote: »

The situation where players port out of IC in order to avoid losing telvar stones to another player is abused on a regular basis and needs to be adjusted. Why have items such as sigil of imperial retreat (it´s entire purpose is to be used to safely get away with your stones), when you can simply just queue out to an empty campaign with 0 downsides. Players on PC even use addons that do this things automatically depending on your HP to telvar ratio, or addons which allows you to bind hotkeys to start the queue for them. The option to do this removes the entire risk/reward situation completely which shouldn´t be the case. I´ve 0 issues with people who uses tactics such as invisibility potions, stag 4 vamp sprint to get into invis and get away (or any other proper strategy to get away).

My suggestions to adjust this:
1. Doing damage or taking damage from a player within 30 seconds prevents you from accepting the queue and leaving IC this way.
2. Queueing out of IC while in combat with another player makes you lose the same amount of stones as if you died to said player.
3. Keep the current mechanic but make it so your character stays in IC for another 10-15 seconds before porting out.

I'm not sure game can differentiate damage done by players and npc well. Yes you have the Cyrodil PvP death who is against enemy players and keep or resource guards who only let you rez at hold keeps and PvE death who let you rez like normal for PvE but not sure how accurate this is and we all know how fun stuck in combat is in Cyrodil.

Porting out is very nice if you just want to do couple of quests or get telvar for endeavor and leave.
3 I have little issue with as its anyway an +10 second delay before porting out, extending this a bit does little harm.

fred4

ZOS have been unable to fix the "stuck in combat" bug for 10 years. Porting between PvE, IC and Cyro is, at times, the only way to work around this as a player. I've occasionally ported out of trials to Cyro for this reason.

I know we're specifically talking about porting from IC here. As far as I can tell, ZOS have relaxed the criteria for going through a door, or into the sewers, such that you may do so after a while, even when you are technically still in combat, e.g. when the screen border is blinking red in menus. I can, however, think of situations when I was unable to leave a district due to unwanted boss aggro.

TL;DR: I wouldn't want a lock on porting out while the "in combat" bug remains and because the ability to do so can also be useful in some IC scenarios that don't involve any PvP. Porting also offers an alternative to "/stuck", come to think of it.

That said, I also feel this is a non-issue. As a nightblade main who has practically lived in IC, I can confirm that you do not need to port out to Cyro on that class. Ever. As a sorc who knows what they are doing, you also have some unique options, e.g. streaking to a protected platform. At any rate, nightblades are often said to dominate IC. I don't begrudge other classes the option to disengage by porting out.

Jaraal

Porting to IC/Cyro is the only feasible workaround for ZOS' 10 year long stuck in combat bug. Removing this transit would make a lot of already frustrated PvPers quite unhappy.