PTS Update 43 - Feedback Thread for Classes & Abilities

CameraBeardThePirate · July 10

Please take another pass at the class mastery scripts.

Buffing the Warden script is ridiculous. This script is one of the most broken (literally and figuratively) things that's ever been introduced. Until you manage to fix being able to break consistently from Charm, you need to look into adjusting this class script.

The Necro class script is awful. Convert it into stacks that persist for ~20 seconds and don't refresh with a new cast. As is, you basically never get more than 4% of each resource. Far better scripts to run than a measly 4% resources.

The Sorc script is hot garbage. That's kind of all there is to it.

Turtle_Bot · July 10

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Please take another pass at the class mastery scripts.

The Sorc script is hot garbage. That's kind of all there is to it.

Was the sorc script adjusted in some way on the PTS? Nothing was mentioned in the PTS patch notes that I could find.

While it's not super amazing on its own, I've found the non-pet part of it nice for additional AoE damage on the spammable (currently switching between AoE knife and shocking soul with the sorc class script and they are performing decently compared to most existing spammable options on live servers, especially for trash-packs and AoE encounters).

Edit: admittedly I haven't tried the pet half of the class script yet, but in theory it seems decent since you can drop crit surge (if you are running an oaken pet build) and still get healing over time.

Smexykins · July 10

Warden changes are just bad honestly. I get wanting to balance Arctic Blast for PvP but why did we gut the ability to use ice staves better? Can't we just have some middle ground for stam/mag? Maybe make it do more BLEED and FROST damage, idk anything is better than taking away the uniqueness...

CameraBeardThePirate · July 10

Smexykins wrote: »

Warden changes are just bad honestly. I get wanting to balance Arctic Blast for PvP but why did we gut the ability to use ice staves better? Can't we just have some middle ground for stam/mag? Maybe make it do more BLEED and FROST damage, idk anything is better than taking away the uniqueness...

95% of wardens in PvP use Polar anyways. Absolutely baffling that they cited PvP as a reason to change Arctic. It's by far the weaker morph in that environment.

TDVM · July 10

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

TDVM wrote: »

Bone Armor - Change Minor Resolve to something else since Vigor already has Minor Resolve, for example Minor Vitality it will be useful for pve and pvp

Uh no. Keep Minor Resolve on Armor. Not being forced to run Vigor is one of the biggest buffs Necro is receiving this patch. Bar space is critical on Necro, and the actual heal from Vigor isn't necessary because you have a myriad of other great healing options.

No, He needs useful buffs, this one is not useful

CameraBeardThePirate · July 10

OK I like the idea of the Grave Grasp change, but the ability just feels awful to use. The speed of the ability makes it basically impossible to land in PvP, and in PvE there's simply no reason to use it for damage when you can simply spam Scythe for an aoe spammable at a much cheaper cost.

It'd be much more interesting if it applied a similar debuff to Unleashed Ritualist, where your Pets (or better yet, all necro abilities) dealt more damage to the targets for X seconds.

Much like many other Necro abilities, this skill is simply too clunky to use. You need to really give it something worthwhile or it just won't land a spot on anyone's bar.

Udrath · July 10

Buff nova and increase brightness please.

Call down THE sun, dealing 125000 Sun Damage every 1 second for 8 seconds to enemies in the ZONE and afflicting them with SUNBURN, reducing them to ash if they are a vampire. An ally near the SUN can activate the Gravity Crush synergy, dealing 250000 Omega Sun Damage to all enemies in Tamriel and stunning them for 5 seconds.

TDVM · July 10

Necro need more debuffs in up43

BasP · July 10

Warden Feedback

To be honest, I don't really like the changes that have been made to the Warden. I'm guessing that optimized PvE Warden builds will probably see their DPS increase, but when I compare my Redguard Stamden's DW / 2H parse on a 6M dummy from the previous PTS to three parses on the new PTS my DPS was slightly lower each time (but so were the number of crits, so all in all it's about the same I think). Meanwhile, my Breton Magden's Frost Staff / Frost Staff DPS is definitely lower compared to before. And both builds have lost the nice instant burst heal from Arctic Blast.

In my humble opinion:

The Arctic Blast changes shouldn't go live. From the minimal testing I did, the DPS is noticeably less than before and the loss of an instant burst heal isn't fun either. (Just nerf Polar Wind instead if you want to nerf the Warden's tankiness in PvP.)
The Piercing Cold buff should be changed to "it grants you 4/8% damage done, which increases to 6/12% when wielding a Frost Staff" so that pure Frost Mages won't end up dealing less damage than before.

I'm also not that fond of the damage buff from Piercing Cold depending on having less than 30K health. As others have said, it's easy to go have more than 30K health when picking up the Orbs in Veteshran Hollows for example, and for higher IA Arcs it's also nice to have more HP than that. It's a shame to loose the damage buff in those cases. But I wouldn't mind it that much if the other aforementioned changes would be made.

Kensei_ESO · July 10

The Piercing Cold passive change is super weird and ugly game design. Not sure I understand the underlying reason for the change but please don't base it on an arbitrary amount of health.

Skjaldbjorn · July 10

Solariken wrote: »

The Piercing Cold passive change is super weird and ugly game design. Not sure I understand the underlying reason for the change but please don't base it on an arbitrary amount of health.

@Solariken You kind of have to dig into the history to understand it.

We started out with the AC passive "Advanced Species". It started at 2% per AC ability slotted. Players felt too much damage was tied up in the bear, limiting their options. Zos elected to reduce bear damage by ~30%, and increase the AC passive to 3% per ability.

Less than a year later, they revert that to 2% because, as far as I understand it, the sentiment was scaling percentage damage on Warden was too strong in PVP. So back to 2%, but they never reverted the bear nerfs.

Sometime later, they overhauled the AC passive to be penetration, and then crit damage, and revised Piercing Cold to be 6% flat damage. That was also apparently too strong for PVP, which gave us the 2/12% frost staff god awful abomination that should have died on the table.

Now, they've revised it in a way to give Warden back a strong flat % damage buff without it heavily impacting PVP, since most people run high health builds there.

Skjaldbjorn · July 10

BasP wrote: »

Warden Feedback
To be honest, I don't really like the changes that have been made to the Warden. I'm guessing that optimized PvE Warden builds will probably see their DPS increase, but when I compare my Redguard Stamden's DW / 2H parse on a 6M dummy from the previous PTS to three parses on the new PTS my DPS was slightly lower each time (but so were the number of crits, so all in all it's about the same I think).

Interesting. My DW/2h Stamden gained around ~6k DPS off the change. Obviously there's crit luck and set/CP variation, but I have no earthly idea how you lost damage. Though 6M dummies I will say aren't a great representation of optimal performance either.

Theist_VII · July 10

Udrath wrote: »

Buff nova and increase brightness please.

Call down THE sun, dealing 125000 Sun Damage every 1 second for 8 seconds to enemies in the ZONE and afflicting them with SUNBURN, reducing them to ash if they are a vampire. An ally near the SUN can activate the Gravity Crush synergy, dealing 250000 Omega Sun Damage to all enemies in Tamriel and stunning them for 5 seconds.

I know you’re being facetious, but Nova, among other never used Templar skills are terrible and could use a rework.

There are maybe 5/32 Templar skills that are weighted well enough to be worth using…

Radiant Glory
Total Dark
Extended Ritual
Honor the Dead
Restoring Rune

Everything else? There are better options either through Scribing, generic skill lines, or on other classes.

Good_VS_Evil · July 10

akasha167 wrote: »

Vampire Undeath passive nerf change is a horrible, horrible idea.

The drawback (fire damage, skill cost, health regen, etc.) was totally acceptable until now.

We're taking a different approach now, granting bonuses at a base line to remove its restrictiveness, while also reducing the power density so it is far less enabling for survivability.

Why ? Who stated that it was "restrictive", and too powerful ? Actually you're not removing the restrictiveness. You're just making it a stage 1 "bonus" because you nerfed something that didn't need to be nerfed.

Just being a stage 3 vampire was not the key to "enable" that survivability. If a character is already squishy, it will still be squishy even with a damage reduction up to 30% (which is also multiplicative, not additive). If you take a severe hit at full HP, you will take 100% damage from that hit anyway. And If you ever survive that initial attack, then you will start to take benefit from that gradual damage reduction.

In real situation, and again because it's multiplicative, 5-10% will mostly turn out to give no concrete bonus. You will just be a squishy character with stage 1 drawback (or whatever stage you're at). It's exactly the same issue for the necromancer 3% damage reduction passive, which practically gives nothing.

The damage reduction calculation needs a fix, not the vampire. And if you think being a vampire stage 3 in PvP is an issue (and I don't think it is), then please do work on a solution for PvP. Because Undeath passive is not an issue in PvE. Oh yes, now probably everyone in PvE will turn into vampire stage 1.

Exactly this, they are punishing ALL Vampire players for what essentially is a PvP problem. I dont get why this couldnt wait until the PvP update in the 4th Quarter later this year because it seems like THAT would have been the time to tweak issues in solely PvP related things.

CameraBeardThePirate · July 10

Good_VS_Evil wrote: »

akasha167 wrote: »

Vampire Undeath passive nerf change is a horrible, horrible idea.

The drawback (fire damage, skill cost, health regen, etc.) was totally acceptable until now.

We're taking a different approach now, granting bonuses at a base line to remove its restrictiveness, while also reducing the power density so it is far less enabling for survivability.

Why ? Who stated that it was "restrictive", and too powerful ? Actually you're not removing the restrictiveness. You're just making it a stage 1 "bonus" because you nerfed something that didn't need to be nerfed.

Just being a stage 3 vampire was not the key to "enable" that survivability. If a character is already squishy, it will still be squishy even with a damage reduction up to 30% (which is also multiplicative, not additive). If you take a severe hit at full HP, you will take 100% damage from that hit anyway. And If you ever survive that initial attack, then you will start to take benefit from that gradual damage reduction.

In real situation, and again because it's multiplicative, 5-10% will mostly turn out to give no concrete bonus. You will just be a squishy character with stage 1 drawback (or whatever stage you're at). It's exactly the same issue for the necromancer 3% damage reduction passive, which practically gives nothing.

The damage reduction calculation needs a fix, not the vampire. And if you think being a vampire stage 3 in PvP is an issue (and I don't think it is), then please do work on a solution for PvP. Because Undeath passive is not an issue in PvE. Oh yes, now probably everyone in PvE will turn into vampire stage 1.

Exactly this, they are punishing ALL Vampire players for what essentially is a PvP problem. I dont get why this couldnt wait until the PvP update in the 4th Quarter later this year because it seems like THAT would have been the time to tweak issues in solely PvP related things.

Or maybe, 30% mitigation is a problem outside of PvP too, because it is.

Good_VS_Evil · July 10

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Good_VS_Evil wrote: »

akasha167 wrote: »

Vampire Undeath passive nerf change is a horrible, horrible idea.

The drawback (fire damage, skill cost, health regen, etc.) was totally acceptable until now.

We're taking a different approach now, granting bonuses at a base line to remove its restrictiveness, while also reducing the power density so it is far less enabling for survivability.

Why ? Who stated that it was "restrictive", and too powerful ? Actually you're not removing the restrictiveness. You're just making it a stage 1 "bonus" because you nerfed something that didn't need to be nerfed.

Just being a stage 3 vampire was not the key to "enable" that survivability. If a character is already squishy, it will still be squishy even with a damage reduction up to 30% (which is also multiplicative, not additive). If you take a severe hit at full HP, you will take 100% damage from that hit anyway. And If you ever survive that initial attack, then you will start to take benefit from that gradual damage reduction.

In real situation, and again because it's multiplicative, 5-10% will mostly turn out to give no concrete bonus. You will just be a squishy character with stage 1 drawback (or whatever stage you're at). It's exactly the same issue for the necromancer 3% damage reduction passive, which practically gives nothing.

The damage reduction calculation needs a fix, not the vampire. And if you think being a vampire stage 3 in PvP is an issue (and I don't think it is), then please do work on a solution for PvP. Because Undeath passive is not an issue in PvE. Oh yes, now probably everyone in PvE will turn into vampire stage 1.

Exactly this, they are punishing ALL Vampire players for what essentially is a PvP problem. I dont get why this couldnt wait until the PvP update in the 4th Quarter later this year because it seems like THAT would have been the time to tweak issues in solely PvP related things.

Or maybe, 30% mitigation is a problem outside of PvP too, because it is.

It is not, every time this issue has been brought up it has been brought up from PvP players or PvP related angle. Every. Single. Time.

IncultaWolf · July 10

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

TDVM wrote: »

Bone Armor - Change Minor Resolve to something else since Vigor already has Minor Resolve, for example Minor Vitality it will be useful for pve and pvp

Uh no. Keep Minor Resolve on Armor. Not being forced to run Vigor is one of the biggest buffs Necro is receiving this patch. Bar space is critical on Necro, and the actual heal from Vigor isn't necessary because you have a myriad of other great healing options.

This, I like minor resolve on bone armor I'm really glad I can finally drop vigor for another necro heal ability, mortal coil is already as strong as vigor with these recent buffs and gives recoveries. Intensive mender is another great option when playing in group/battlegrounds with the new buffs.

chessalavakia_ESO · July 10

Personally, my initial take would be that the changes can feel to me like they are a bit lacking in finesse.

I'm not sure how it will feel in the long term as one might quickly adjust but, not generating corpses out of combat is definitely a bit of an annoyance right now.

Necromancer was under-performing and the changes will move things up a fair bit. I'm not sure if some might be going too far but...

The Vampirism change will likely leave stage 1 a bit overpowered and stage 3 and 4 a bit weak. I at times tried running builds where I'd try to sit at low health and use the passive to survive and found it generally didn't work that well. With the nerfed passive the point of doing that style of build gets even more narrow.

Arctic Blast changes add unpredictability which can be annoying. I want to know I'm going to get a heal when I hit my button for a heal. I don't want to not get a heal because a npc happened to be in range of me and got stunned.

Piercing Cold changes mean another redo for many Warden builds. My tank that I use to solo dungeons is going to take a 12% damage hit. if I go back to a Bleed build, I'll probably want to include some ice if I'm min maxing to get the damage boost if I'm below 30k hp. Frankly, many of my Warden characters are above 30k hp because they either PvP occasionally and thus need to be above 30k or they sometimes do harder content where the extra hp buys me a bit of breathing room. The blocking for me in most content isn't worth anywhere near as much as the damage.

BasP · July 10

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

Warden Feedback
To be honest, I don't really like the changes that have been made to the Warden. I'm guessing that optimized PvE Warden builds will probably see their DPS increase, but when I compare my Redguard Stamden's DW / 2H parse on a 6M dummy from the previous PTS to three parses on the new PTS my DPS was slightly lower each time (but so were the number of crits, so all in all it's about the same I think).

Interesting. My DW/2h Stamden gained around ~6k DPS off the change. Obviously there's crit luck and set/CP variation, but I have no earthly idea how you lost damage. Though 6M dummies I will say aren't a great representation of optimal performance either.

Yeah, I I was surprised as well. I know that the build I put together is far from optimized, but considering it didn't use a Frost Staff I figured that I'd have to see a damage increase. Now that I've compared my logs, it seems that my weaving just got even worse over night. I'll have to do some more tests tomorrow.

H_E · July 10

Necro abilities could use a lot of QOL changes as well some things I'd love to see that aren't strictly buffs or would be low impact buffs

Grave Lord

Venom Skull only counts for casts on that bar, while other comparable skills such as DK whip stack up on either bar

blighted blastbones getting stunned or loosing target feels really bad and dramatically lowers dps, a recast being avialable after the 2.5 seconds to instantly detonate early would fix this
gravelord's sacrifice is still buggy, with the corpses being generated from the empowered skulls not being targetable, along with needed to target an enemy to cast a self buff feeling entirely out of place

skeletal mage and skeletal arcanist deal abysmal damage and feel like they have no purpose in ever slotting for cleave damage

shocking siphon and both morphs breaking and disappearing when out ranged feel bad, the siphon ability around your character as well would be really nice

Pestilent Colossus damage rarely feels like its worth the less major vuln uptime

passive rapid rot only synergizes with detonating siphon and boneyard, nothing else in the necromancers kit and relies on other skill lines to gain significant use, needs changes to interact with necros kit more

Bone Tyrant

Ruinous Scythe largely loss its use with grave lord's sacrifice only generating corpses with flame skull and dealing less damage than whirlwind and could have an 50% execute attached to it much like flail

the sustain from summoners armor seems redundant with the reusable parts passive, this skill should be reworked to a more offensive variant

Bitter harvest and its morphs both suffer from the duration being cut short when recasting to consume fewer remaining corpses rather than adding to, refreshing or keeping the longer duration. Making this skill a rather useless hot that's only used for its slot bonuses and ulti gen rather than also as a situational heal

Agony Totem's synergy with the other cro changes coming feels under whelming now not offering much over the utility and ease of the other morph, could be reworked to a ground dot the grants major courage to the counter part of major cowardice

empowering grasp is just entirely useless compared to the other morph, needs changes

passive Death Gleaning feels bad to only be active on a bar with a bone tyrant ability slotted rather than both bars, while active, or unconditionally

passive health avarice is just a straight up worse variant of the dragon knights burning heart passive giving 12% healing taken while a draconic power is active

Living Death

Blood for Blood consuming a corpse rarely is useful or have corpses available, morph should be reworked

life amid death and its morphs are rather difficult to have significant uptime with, due to how often a corpse is generated and with the completion this skill needs for corpses, could use a duration buff per corpse conusmed to make it more useful in non trash fights

Pevey · July 10

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

The Piercing Cold passive change is super weird and ugly game design. Not sure I understand the underlying reason for the change but please don't base it on an arbitrary amount of health.

@Solariken You kind of have to dig into the history to understand it.

We started out with the AC passive "Advanced Species". It started at 2% per AC ability slotted. Players felt too much damage was tied up in the bear, limiting their options. Zos elected to reduce bear damage by ~30%, and increase the AC passive to 3% per ability.

Less than a year later, they revert that to 2% because, as far as I understand it, the sentiment was scaling percentage damage on Warden was too strong in PVP. So back to 2%, but they never reverted the bear nerfs.

Sometime later, they overhauled the AC passive to be penetration, and then crit damage, and revised Piercing Cold to be 6% flat damage. That was also apparently too strong for PVP, which gave us the 2/12% frost staff god awful abomination that should have died on the table.

Now, they've revised it in a way to give Warden back a strong flat % damage buff without it heavily impacting PVP, since most people run high health builds there.

I don’t know how much the history is relevant anymore. There has been turnover at zos, and also people just sometimes change their minds over time. For whatever reason, certain ppl in the past thought warden damage was too high. This was never the case, and any analysis of the numbers will bear this out. The percent increase meant that ppl parsing at the high end would benefit fully, and get just enough of an increase to make the number look competitive with other classes. But the vast majority of players (in the mid-range) would not benefit as much and would be underpowered compared to other classes. New players without optimal gear sets suffer the most. It was always a bad bandaid to fix a problem that was never there to begin with.

People keep saying wardens are so tanky. Other classes also have tank-related toolkits. If warden’s tank toolkit is overperforming (I don’t think it is), then adjust that. Don’t nerf an entire class’s damage, please.

I think the fact that ice staff was turned into a tank weapon a few years back is also part of the problem. An alteration tank weapon, as others have suggested, I think would be a wonderful addition to the game. I’ve staves are destruction staves. They are supposed to be for damage. Drop the silly little ice shields on our blockade that only block projectiles. They are useless in PVE and in PvP I suppose contribute to this “tanky warden” perception. Maybe, I don’t do a ton of PvP.

I have 20 toons, multiples of all classes. I play them all, except sorcs because I don’t like those pets. I have 4 wardens of different races. Warden was my first class, and I love it, but I play them less and less as dps.

Someone in one of the threads said 4% was not a lot. But 4% off the top IS a lot. That same person said the 8k+ from chilled was a meaningful part of a warden’s damage. I agree with the latter. Those damage amounts are in the same ballpark, and they are both very meaningful to keep warden in line with other classes.

Warden never needed to be in this spot. It never needed its damage toolkit to be so clearly underpowered, with all sorts of bank-bending to make it look like this wasn’t the case on top end parses.

Twohothardware · July 11

The Necromancer major buffs being added are most welcome but the class needs more adjustments. The addition of the major and minor buffs are more convenient than anything most all of these were accessible through potions, expert hunter/magelight, resolving vigor, ect.

Necro needs a harder hitting skill to make it competitive in PvP again. Blastbones has been gutted with the loss of Stalking Blastbones and so we need more burst damage put in here somewhere. Necro is also lacking a qualify CC. Bone Totem is a delayed CC that you can just walk out of and so it's ineffective against players compared to what other classes have available. Streak, Fossilize, Rune of Eldritch Horror, these are the types of CC's that Necro needs access to.

Skjaldbjorn · July 11

Pevey wrote: »

I don’t know how much the history is relevant anymore. There has been turnover at zos, and also people just sometimes change their minds over time. For whatever reason, certain ppl in the past thought warden damage was too high. This was never the case, and any analysis of the numbers will bear this out. The percent increase meant that ppl parsing at the high end would benefit fully, and get just enough of an increase to make the number look competitive with other classes. But the vast majority of players (in the mid-range) would not benefit as much and would be underpowered compared to other classes. New players without optimal gear sets suffer the most. It was always a bad bandaid to fix a problem that was never there to begin with.

People keep saying wardens are so tanky. Other classes also have tank-related toolkits. If warden’s tank toolkit is overperforming (I don’t think it is), then adjust that. Don’t nerf an entire class’s damage, please.

I think the fact that ice staff was turned into a tank weapon a few years back is also part of the problem. An alteration tank weapon, as others have suggested, I think would be a wonderful addition to the game. I’ve staves are destruction staves. They are supposed to be for damage. Drop the silly little ice shields on our blockade that only block projectiles. They are useless in PVE and in PvP I suppose contribute to this “tanky warden” perception. Maybe, I don’t do a ton of PvP.

I have 20 toons, multiples of all classes. I play them all, except sorcs because I don’t like those pets. I have 4 wardens of different races. Warden was my first class, and I love it, but I play them less and less as dps.

Someone in one of the threads said 4% was not a lot. But 4% off the top IS a lot. That same person said the 8k+ from chilled was a meaningful part of a warden’s damage. I agree with the latter. Those damage amounts are in the same ballpark, and they are both very meaningful to keep warden in line with other classes.

Warden never needed to be in this spot. It never needed its damage toolkit to be so clearly underpowered, with all sorts of bank-bending to make it look like this wasn’t the case on top end parses.

The majority of the changes I am referring to occurred under Gilliam's watch. They are still very much relevant to today.

However, I do fundamentally agree with most of what you said. As I've said before, I don't care if they add an extra ~2% or whatever for frost staves. That doesn't bother me. But a 10% gap was utterly absurd and should have never crawled out of whatever hellhole the idea spawned from. That should have been a non-starter. Encouraging them to change things scares me because we could end up with something equally awful.

spaceghost8 · July 11

I like the new changes but Necro is still behind the other classes dps wise

To boost Necro, what do u think about changing the death knell passive from 10% Crit chance for each gravelord skill on your bar when enemies are under 25% to 5% Crit chance for each gravelord ability on your bar all the time.

Make the new major savagery/prophecy buff from siphon (while slotted on either bar)

spaceghost8 · July 11

About the Nerien’eth monster set from crypt of hearts 2… it’s a shame it’s almost impossible to proc this Necro themed monster set on my Necro… most necros have their bars filled with dots and with only a smammable as direct damage

How about changing this monster sets proc conditions to better suite Necro game play, make it proc of dots instead of direct damage

Theist_VII · July 11

spaceghost8 wrote: »

About the Nerien’eth monster set from crypt of hearts 2… it’s a shame it’s almost impossible to proc this Necro themed monster set on my Necro… most necros have their bars filled with dots and with only a smammable as direct damage

How about changing this monster sets proc conditions to better suite Necro game play, make it proc of dots instead of direct damage

With that line of thinking, one could make the argument that the Shroud of the Lich set could use some love aswell.

The set has far too long of a cooldown to be of any use.

Udrath · July 11

Telos_Tim wrote: »

Udrath wrote: »

Buff nova and increase brightness please.

Call down THE sun, dealing 125000 Sun Damage every 1 second for 8 seconds to enemies in the ZONE and afflicting them with SUNBURN, reducing them to ash if they are a vampire. An ally near the SUN can activate the Gravity Crush synergy, dealing 250000 Omega Sun Damage to all enemies in Tamriel and stunning them for 5 seconds.

I know you’re being facetious, but Nova, among other never used Templar skills are terrible and could use a rework.

There are maybe 5/32 Templar skills that are weighted well enough to be worth using…

Radiant Glory
Total Dark
Extended Ritual
Honor the Dead
Restoring Rune

Everything else? There are better options either through Scribing, generic skill lines, or on other classes.

I still use jabs. Not a fan of it being a source of major brutality though and the animation. Wish it did bleed damage or fire damage, or proc’d something that helped damage instead. Or if both morphs had healing and gave brutality or sorcery depending which morph we choose.

Theist_VII · July 11

Udrath wrote: »

Telos_Tim wrote: »

Udrath wrote: »

Buff nova and increase brightness please.

Call down THE sun, dealing 125000 Sun Damage every 1 second for 8 seconds to enemies in the ZONE and afflicting them with SUNBURN, reducing them to ash if they are a vampire. An ally near the SUN can activate the Gravity Crush synergy, dealing 250000 Omega Sun Damage to all enemies in Tamriel and stunning them for 5 seconds.

I know you’re being facetious, but Nova, among other never used Templar skills are terrible and could use a rework.

There are maybe 5/32 Templar skills that are weighted well enough to be worth using…

Radiant Glory
Total Dark
Extended Ritual
Honor the Dead
Restoring Rune

Everything else? There are better options either through Scribing, generic skill lines, or on other classes.

I still use jabs. Not a fan of it being a source of major brutality though and the animation. Wish it did bleed damage or fire damage, or proc’d something that helped damage instead. Or if both morphs had healing and gave brutality or sorcery depending which morph we choose.

Jabs are an AoE spammable, so is Flail.

One gives Major Brutality/Sorcery, and applies a tiny snare, has a small AoE, then does reduced damage to all other enemies nearby.

One gives a unique 5% damage increase to all targets that you hit with it, immobilizes all targets, has a massive AoE, deals full damage to all enemies, and lastly heals you while building into the class mechanic rather than spending.

It’s pretty clear which skill is the better one of the two at what they aim for.

Now, the 5 skills I mentioned are either better, or up-to-par with other skills in their respective categories. Everything else on Templar’s kit is weaker than at least one or two other skills within their respective categories.

FuryOfTyphon · July 11

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

TDVM wrote: »

Bone Armor - Change Minor Resolve to something else since Vigor already has Minor Resolve, for example Minor Vitality it will be useful for pve and pvp

Uh no. Keep Minor Resolve on Armor. Not being forced to run Vigor is one of the biggest buffs Necro is receiving this patch. Bar space is critical on Necro, and the actual heal from Vigor isn't necessary because you have a myriad of other great healing options.

Umm no. Terrible Take.

If you are a PvPer and you dont have vigor on, you are nerfing yourself for absolutely no reason.

If you are a PvE DPS, you dont need an armor buff, but you're complaining about bar space?
Put Vigor on, have a heal + Minor Resolve.

If you are a PvE Tank/Heals, you should have vigor on for the heal, for the Resolve or to proc Powerful Assault.

Vigor is one of the best heals in the game in any form of content, and should be on most builds.

Having Minor Protection or Vitality would be more useful in nearly every situation.

Chilly-McFreeze · July 11

FuryOfTyphon wrote: »

Vigor is one of the best heals in the game in any form of content, and should be on most builds.

Not that I disagree with the rest of your post but this is partly where the issue is rooted. Vigor was already looked at too good by parts of the community since it got minor resolve. People get tired of having to use the same skills on every build because the alternatives are inferior. So it certainly isn't a bad thing to spread out sources of minor resolve.