PTS Update 43 - Feedback Thread for Classes & Abilities

FoJul

TDVM wrote: »

Briefly what needs to be done for pvp:

dk - up, increase fire damage by 5-10%
plar - up, Reduce total damage from Radiant Destruction by 50% during the kill phase, and increase damage by 30-40% for the other damaging skills
sorc - nerf, reduce healing from shields by 50%+
nb - nerf, reduce total damage by 10-15%
warden - mini up, you can give more frost and cold damage
arcanist - mini nerf, damage skills are not to be touched, just a little less survivability.
necro - big up, just give it all the debuffs in the game so it's useful as the class that can debuff a target the most among all classes.


Now in about this general top by class in pvp:

1) mana sorc
2) arcanist
3) nb
4) warden
5) dk
6)plar
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7)necro

DK does not need any more buffs.

TheRedRavenTR

TDVM wrote: »

Briefly what needs to be done for pvp:

dk - up, increase fire damage by 5-10%
plar - up, Reduce total damage from Radiant Destruction by 50% during the kill phase, and increase damage by 30-40% for the other damaging skills
sorc - nerf, reduce healing from shields by 50%+
nb - nerf, reduce total damage by 10-15%
warden - mini up, you can give more frost and cold damage
arcanist - mini nerf, damage skills are not to be touched, just a little less survivability.
necro - big up, just give it all the debuffs in the game so it's useful as the class that can debuff a target the most among all classes.


Now in about this general top by class in pvp:

1) mana sorc
2) arcanist
3) nb
4) warden
5) dk
6)plar
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7)necro

this guy pvps... listen here zos!

Also can we nerf bash builds? damage scaling off resists?? why. It always stalemates or kills unexperienced players (you removed damage from sword and shield spammables ransack and heroic slash years ago saying "snb shouldnt dealt dmg".) while being annoyingly tanky with no skill expression other than bash basb bash reverb bash bash bash.

Add in a 40k hp sorc or arca hp shield stacking which is why these builds work (why does this exist, remove it.) and its very unfun.

Theist_VII

Nerf bash builds? That’s a new one!

Sword and Shield should absolutely have its niché for dealing damage. Why do you think kite shields exist? To scare people with their pointy end?

Shields were extremely dangerous weapons and ESO doesn’t do enough to represent that, if we’re being honest, maybe instead of “nerf bash builds” we should be encouraging the unique style of play.

…sort of like adding more sources of Bash Damage into the game, I’m looking at you Blazing Shield!

Vonnegut2506

Theist_VII wrote: »

Nerf bash builds? That’s a new one!

Sword and Shield should absolutely have its niché for dealing damage. Why do you think kite shields exist? To scare people with their pointy end?

Shields were extremely dangerous weapons and ESO doesn’t do enough to represent that, if we’re being honest, maybe instead of “nerf bash builds” we should be encouraging the unique style of play.

…sort of like adding more sources of Bash Damage into the game, I’m looking at you Blazing Shield!

If they made sword and shield do more damage, I wouldn't have to shake my head every time I see a dps in my random dungeons using them.

Tommy_The_Gun

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

I'm an NB enthusiastic and i do like the changes to switching some abilities skill trees. As a ranged magblade, i now find it actually a bit easier to maintain the shadow barrier passive in PvP, while having bit more health on my backbar instead of critical chance.

Big fan of this change!

While I understand the change to switch skills between skill trees, all of the sudden there is a quite substantial issue as basically there is not a single stamina costing shadow skill. It does not affect mag nb much, but in general is a huge departure from NB class desgin as since the game launched, NB always had at least one non-magicka costing skill in every class skill line. Sometimes it was stamina morph, skill that costed health or even a toggle. It mostly will hurt stam NB and stam NB is actually way behind mag nb in PvE & PvP side. I think they should just make at least one shadow skill so it would cost your highest resource pool. Otherwise, it is too big of a nerf imho.

BasP

Some more minor Necromancer feedback

It just occurred to me that Wardens now get a 5% damage done bonus from Netch and another 8% damage done bonus from Piercing Cold. Of course Necromancers already get a (relatively minor) 3% damage done bonus on one bar by slotting Siphon, but perhaps a similar bonus could be added to its passives to help the class put out a bit more damage? Something like:

• Dismember: While a Grave Lord ability is active, your Spell and Physical Penetration are increased by 1500 and your damage done is increased by 5%.

Skjaldbjorn

BasP wrote: »

Some more minor Necromancer feedback

It just occurred to me that Wardens now get a 5% damage done bonus from Netch and another 8% damage done bonus from Piercing Cold. Of course Necromancers already get a (relatively minor) 3% damage done bonus on one bar by slotting Siphon, but perhaps a similar bonus could be added to its passives to help the class put out a bit more damage? Something like:

• Dismember: While a Grave Lord ability is active, your Spell and Physical Penetration are increased by 1500 and your damage done is increased by 5%.

Don't forget Necros already get a 10-15%, can't recall which, damage bonus to DoTs, as well as penetration and crit in execute.

BasP

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

Some more minor Necromancer feedback

It just occurred to me that Wardens now get a 5% damage done bonus from Netch and another 8% damage done bonus from Piercing Cold. Of course Necromancers already get a (relatively minor) 3% damage done bonus on one bar by slotting Siphon, but perhaps a similar bonus could be added to its passives to help the class put out a bit more damage? Something like:

• Dismember: While a Grave Lord ability is active, your Spell and Physical Penetration are increased by 1500 and your damage done is increased by 5%.

Don't forget Necros already get a 10-15%, can't recall which, damage bonus to DoTs, as well as penetration and crit in execute.

Sure, I know that (I believe it's 10% since U35 - it used to be 15% though), and the Crit Chance buff is especially nice. But I don't believe anyone considers the current Necromancer to be close to OP because of them?

To be honest, however, I'd prefer some buffs to individual skills that are most commonly seen as underperforming (such as the Skeletal Arcanist and BB when compared to the old SB), but the thought had occurred to me that a simple second damage done buff might achieve the same effect.

Regarding Wardens, I do hope that the change to the healing from Arctic Blast will be undone and I'm still not sold on the damage buff depending on have less than 30K Health, as I just finished vVH on my Stamden with 35K Health on the live server. I suppose I could just not pick up those Orbs, but still...

Udrath

Revert jabs animation or change the animation to something besides a vampire staff motif.

codestripper

I feel like this change to Arctic Blast is just another tactic like the one they tried to pull with hardened ward ages ago. "We think its overperforming, so we need to adjust it. Let's nuke the skill first, wait for complaints, then adjust it to the nerf we actually wanted as a "compromise" to make the player base happier"

Go ahead and tell me one single scenario where you want to burst heal 3 seconds after you activate the skill... you are either dead or it is no longer needed.

My prediction is, they are going to remove the stun entirely, revert the heal to instant, and keep the damage how it currently is on the PTS. Thus, making the still subpar but still sane to use.

Personally, just do what everyone else is saying and keep it how it was, and nuke polar winds if you are going after PvP.

Thx.

RisKKR

Everyone is focusing on the aspect of damage on Warden without realising how hard we have just been gutted in terms of our healing. Nobody seems to remember a couple years ago what Warden was like before the devs buffed Arctic Blast. It was verging impossible to play in PvP without pocket healers for you. Unfortunately the devs have now reverted AB to be unplayable For PvP:

The devs made a claim AB is overpowered being a heal and CC “at once”, but this is false as it was already addressed in prior patches by changing the CC to be delayed; it has two huge rings of damage that pulse out and give players a big warning of the CC to come. For most players it’s easily recognisable and hasn’t been an oppressive problem, hence nobody had put forward complaints about the current state of the skill. You could literally emulate the same mechanic on any other class by pressing a burst heal, then a CC two seconds later. So in this regard AB is just good in terms of bar space.

With this nerf you simply won’t be able to get the heal off reliably even if you tried - you’d be double casting (~7k+ mag), with a 2 second delay in between, just for the burst heal. The comment the developers put forward about the skill being reworked with intention of it being ‘a CC with the occasional random, quirky, surprise burst heal every now and then’ is just awful game design. A heal or CC aren’t interchangeable mechanics; we want a CC when we want a CC and we want a heal when we want a heal…

Furthermore, doesn’t changing AB into a ‘spammable’ contradict the developer’s alleged purpose in changing the skill to begin with? It’s now not only ‘overpowered’ being a CC, Heal and DoT ‘all in one skill’, it’s now also a powerful AoE spammable too!
*Therefore, respectfully, I can only deduce that the initial heal of AB was not in fact removed “due to it over-performing”, but because the developers wanted to compensate for this random, new, AoE spammable buff for PvE (which I believe outperforms the previous Pulsar/Unstable Wall now), with no regard for PvP.

I am basically begging the devs to rethink this change and revert it or I recommend keeping the initial heal of Arctic Blast with the delayed CC, and keeping this new AoE spammable buff. Preventing PvE players from having the initial heal of AB isn’t worth breaking warden PvP over.
If this change goes forward EVERY single warden is going to be a max health polar wind user so that they can heal. The prior 2% buff of damage was enough to kill PvPers, so it's negligible losing it now via the Piercing Cold change (and we get a block buff). It's truly a huge oversight. The live version of AB allows viability of building low health, high damage, as all damage dealing wardens should've been (as we are 'squishier'). AB's heal + delayed stun + proc of Glacial Presence passive is vital to live.

RisKKR

_Ahala_ wrote: »

No but seriously, since we are changing arctic blast this patch, let’s bring its range up to 8m since this is the new standard for player based aoes. Range is currently outdated. Just buff some green balance ability to allow low health wardens to actually survive in pvp and call it a day

I'm on board with MAJORLY buffing our Leaching Vines/Trellis + Lotus if zenimax are adamant in gutting AB as a heal. That's a great idea. It's genuinely scary the devs are contemplating putting this current AB change and Piercing Cold change live as it destroys even our change of using Polar Wind as damage dealers lol

Foxtrot39

Combat update attempt n°21 to request a rework of Bolstering darkness to not be useless

How can we talk about reworking anything in NB kit and ignore for 6 years the elephant in the room on that matter?

Even the update specifically told to address under used skill completely ignored the least used ultimate skill OF THE WHOLE GAME

I started playing around 2020 and I have seen only 2 players used that skill ever since

FoJul

I'm going to add this just so I can get it off my chest.

I think a few of the Necromancer's Passives needs reworks. Here are the passives I think could reuse a rework.

1. Death Gleening.
2. Death Knell.
3. Rapid Rot.

I feel like these don't add much help as they currently sit.

Suggestions below will be in order of the passives above.

1. Reduce the number of resource gained when enemy dies, but add the condition of when summons die. (~250 mag and stam on death of summons or enemies).
2. Increase your crit chance against enemies under 75% health by ~8% per Grave Lord ability slotted
3. When dealing damage, have a 16% chance of dealing 1000 poison damage to the enemy. This effect can happen once ever 2 seconds and damage scales off of your max stat. Increase your damage over time effects by 8%

^ the last one can be Poison/Disease or bleed honestly all of them fit the Rot description.

Those would be cool changes, but yeah Necro passives suck. Zos please help.

TheRedRavenTR

Theist_VII wrote: »

Nerf bash builds? That’s a new one!

Sword and Shield should absolutely have its niché for dealing damage. Why do you think kite shields exist? To scare people with their pointy end?

Shields were extremely dangerous weapons and ESO doesn’t do enough to represent that, if we’re being honest, maybe instead of “nerf bash builds” we should be encouraging the unique style of play.

…sort of like adding more sources of Bash Damage into the game, I’m looking at you Blazing Shield!

I love snb dealing damage, i loved it when it was skill expressive with animation cancelling heoric slash. not this go 7 heavy bash damage scales of resistance spam one button 40k hp max hp shield bs.

katemedina666

Warden: The nerfs shocked me, it's terrible, seriously.
Arctic Blast: It was a unique ability that only belonged to this class that gave us reliable healing, reasonable damage over time and some control, it could be used as a prebuff. This nerf ruins the entire gameplay for Magden. How to use this as spam with such a long cast? And most importantly, why? if there is Destructive Reach/Pulsar from the line of destruction. Making healing situational, automatically makes this skill unnecessary, as it will require additional healing on one of the bars. If this nerf is carried over to live, this morph will simply disappear from the bar and be replaced by a regular Vigor, which will lead to a loss of control and a decrease in area damage for the Warden. In addition, as many have already said, it would be better to nerf the more dominant Polar Wind in PVP (according to the stated goals of the developers).

Piercing Cold: This passive ability allowed the only class in the game to play a mage with an ice staff, because for other classes it was useless, losing in damage to all other types of weapons and going more into defense. By canceling the ice staff bonus and giving a general damage buff, we get another universal option in which there is no place for the ice staff (because it again loses in damage), which again destroys the entire uniqueness of the class. Besides, Warden tanks with Polar Wind are already immortal in PVP, thanks for another bonus from 30k HP for them, that's what was really missing. IMHO these nerfs fall into the category of “we wanted the best, but it turned out exactly the opposite” or “it’s been a long time since we nerfed Warden.”

BlackHammer225

As a Templar Main, I'm only here to point out a known fact about Backlash aka POTL and Purifying Light that should be looked at and adjusted.

Many patches ago Backlash and its morphs had their damage needed threshold increased to reach the 200% damage benefit. To further explain this change only impacted PVP, A player would apply this to an opponent and when applied they will need to deal a set amount of damage that is (UNKNOWN TO THE PLAYER) on the target within 6 seconds to gain the 200% damage increase towards the end of the abilities duration.

After those changes were released the ability has failed consistently to reach the UNKNOWN threshold needed, a few patches ago the threshold was reduced slightly but this had "ZERO" impact. Know that the ability states that if you don't reach the needed damage it'll do a set amount of damage to the target resulting in a default damage outcome that is lackluster your light attack might just hit harder then even if it critically strikes it won't be worth it.

I just would like for the threshold to be looked at again and adjusted so that PVP Templars can utilize their main burst ability.

baconaura

they should just make tentacular dread create crux. give us more ways to create cruxes, and you'll see people use more different skills. People are really only using cephiliach's because it generates crux. all the extra stuff is really much less important than the crux generation. and people are never gonna use tentacular as long as it doesnt generate crux.

just like how there is a time for pragmatic, and a time to use exhaustive fatecarver, people just need options for creating and dumping crux.

maybe if crux generation was tied to LA like merciless, that would free up people to use either morphs of abyssal impact.

Smexykins

Tried the Arctic Blast changes on PTS... even worse than I thought. Not having a burst heal be consistent is the worst possible thing you could've done honestly. It really just makes me feel like my main is going to be even worse in PvE and things aren't going to matter for PvP.

Aces-High-82

Sorcerer: can you please finally convert all class skills damage type to be shock/physical damage?
A consistent class identity would be wellcomed on all classes tbh.

ESO_Nightingale

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

Sorcerer: can you please finally convert all class skills damage type to be shock/physical damage?
A consistent class identity would be wellcomed on all classes tbh.

for sure. warden is begging for all damage types to be changed to bleed/frost

StShoot

topsecretagentx wrote: »

My feedback is please fix the completely underperforming NB in PVE. The numbers are out there and have been posted. There are plenty of graphs, charts, testimonials and the aggregate data from ESO Logs out there on the forums that have validated this already. NB PVE DPS buff is needed badly. They are not competitive in PVE and for those of us who main a NB this alienates us from content. The recent changes to Siphoning Strikes and Shadow Cloak really do not enhance DPS at all since they are both non-DPS skills which have limited application, especially since NB generally does not have sustain issues in PVE.

To the guy above who says NB needs a 10-15% DPS Nerf, they did that last patch, when Major Berserk was removed from the NB toolkit. PVE DPS is weakest in the class spectrum now with still an overly sophisticated rotation and no payout for learning it. Also, zero cleave at all. It has become demoralizing. NB damage is not your problem in PVP. If you are interested in levelling the playing field with NB in PVP, I have your solution right here:



NB should not be punished because players lack the motivation to slot detection potions. I am sure that is 99% of people in here complaining NBs kill them too much and yes I have tested this hypothesis in actual gameplay and found it to be 100% accurate. NBs will go for the easiest perceived kill (like any player, just watch a BatlleGround match). You carry these you are not the easiest anymore.

Give NB a themed Spammable. After the Nerf last patch Concealed is just inferior.

In my opinion only the Arcanist needs a nerf. You now have players mashing 3-4 buttons to exceed the DPS of players who run a calculated 8-10 button rotation. The worst part about this is player arrogance and elevated toxicity. Yes this is a thing, like the OakenSorcs that would run the Wayrest for their gear then run-- through all the enemies-- ahead of entire groups of new players who were trying to learn the game because the OakenSorcs were unkillable in Normal Dungeons. There were actually players who felt superior when they did this and treated their group with contempt.

So, Class Balance is a thing. Please address.

Yeah it always feels awesome to waste a 45 second potion cooldown on a skill that can be spammed without any punishment if you get pulled out from the cloak, realy completly ballanced. I mean it could be a good counter if the blade had no access to shade (which blades barely need to use) or a burstheal that eqauls coag/AB
Its awesome how you complain about 3-4 button arcanist dd (to be fair its more like 7-8 xD) in PvE while the blade hits exactly the same number of buttons to hit their burst in pvp xD (cloak->incap->bow->spam/Execute) to bring you from 100 to 0. If it wasnt for sorcs and their toolkit, which counters the blade somewhat well, than we would have a population of 60-70 % blades in cyro.

BasP

Arctic Blast (morph):

• This morph’s heal will now occur if the ability failed to damage any enemies with the initial hit, rather than if the stun failed to hit any targets. Reduced the healing from this ability by ~11%.

Is it just me or has the skill become worse than it already was? Previously you'd at least get a heal after a few seconds if you were in combat with a boss/player that had CC immunity. In such a situation it won't go off at all now, unless I'm missing something?

Luke_Flamesword

Yeah, it looks like awful nerf. You just can't heal when sorrounded by enemies, so in situations when usually you need heal. What will be in next iteration? "This morph’s heal will now occur if you have full health"?

React

The developers really need to state their intentions for arctic blast. The skill was useful as it was before the changes this PTS. It was a reasonable (but not nearly as strong as comparable options) burst heal, that saved barspace by being a blockable stun.

Now what does it do? It's an AOE spammable, but if you don't hit someone with it you get a heal? Where is this going to be used? You're not going to slot it as your heal in PVP, it is outclassed by healing soul, healing contingency, and polar wind. You're not going to slot it as your AOE spammable in PVP, it is outclassed by pulsar and soul burst. You're not going to slot it as your stun in PVP, it is outclassed by soul burst and turn evil (as AOE stuns, there are better ST options too).

Meanwhile, Polar wind is the most stupidly overperforming heal that exists in PVP right now and you're not addressing it? I just can't make sense of the logic here.

Please revert the changes to arctic, and address polar wind (ideally make polar wind a self heal so that it no longer allows warden healers to build 45-60k HP while increasing the cross healing to disgusting levels).

Lalothen

BasP wrote: »

Arctic Blast (morph):

• This morph’s heal will now occur if the ability failed to damage any enemies with the initial hit, rather than if the stun failed to hit any targets. Reduced the healing from this ability by ~11%.

Is it just me or has the the skill become worse than it already was? Previously you'd at least get a heal after a few seconds if you were in combat with a boss/player that had CC immunity. In such a situation it won't go off at all now, unless I'm missing something?

"Oh I'm almost dead! I'd best run away or los the enemies so I can proc my burst h- oh darn I'm now dead!"

I have an idea: Why don't they apply the Budding Seeds idea to Arctic Blast? As in, you cast Arctic Blast and it does the DD & DoT, and then whilst Arctic Blast is active you can cast it again (for reduced cost maybe) to consume the Arctic Blast buff and proc the burst heal?

Afterip

I think the person who redesigned Stalking Blasbones was now working on Arctic Blast.

PrinceShroob

I'm not sure what y'all's vendetta against Arctic Blast is, but as a lot of people have said, you're changing the wrong morph.

The skill needs to be an unconditional burst heal because Fungal Growth is not a burst heal, it's an area heal like Combat Prayer and weaker than other burst heals. You can't even make the argument that some classes lack burst heals since Nightblades got Malevolent Offering changed to be usable as a burst heal on self years ago.

If the skill has too much going for it, just get rid of the stun--it wasn't terribly useful, anyway, since it had to hit three times to work. But all the changes so far have been trying to fix what ain't broke.

DrNukenstein

They should halve Streak's distance, and double it's cost

BasP

PrinceShroob wrote: »

If the skill has too much going for it, just get rid of the stun--it wasn't terribly useful, anyway, since it had to hit three times to work. But all the changes so far have been trying to fix what ain't broke.

If ZOS is determined to change Arctic Blast, that would have my preference as well. In that case the DPS of the skill could be increased too considering it would no longer do three things at once.

But still - I'd prefer to see the skill go back to the way it was.