PTS Update 43 - Feedback Thread for Classes & Abilities

Jsmalls

So just want to pull a blurb from the class balance section.

"Shifted numerous Nightblade abilities to improve their thematic tie into their skill line, while simultaneously addressing some long-standing balance issues the class has had in PvP environments."

Think it's safe to say most nightblades run 1-2 heavy pieces (so 14-16 seconds).

If the intention of this change was to make micromanaging Resolve more involved, well it's not. Path/cloak are used very frequently and will make the uptime on Resolve very easy to manage.

Moving to veiled strike moving to the assassination tree. So nightblades now get ANOTHER 2% crit chance on their offensive bar... At the loss of 3% health...

These changes do absolutely nothing to address long standing balance issues.

Merciless never needed change to allow you to hold it indefinitely.

The unique no name damage buffs are way too strong.

But honestly just would like an answer to your own statement. How did this change effect anything for Nightblade dominance in PvP? Can you please elaborate.

master_vanargand

Jsmalls wrote: »

So just want to pull a blurb from the class balance section.

"Shifted numerous Nightblade abilities to improve their thematic tie into their skill line, while simultaneously addressing some long-standing balance issues the class has had in PvP environments."

Think it's safe to say most nightblades run 1-2 heavy pieces (so 14-16 seconds).

If the intention of this change was to make micromanaging Resolve more involved, well it's not. Path/cloak are used very frequently and will make the uptime on Resolve very easy to manage.

Moving to veiled strike moving to the assassination tree. So nightblades now get ANOTHER 2% crit chance on their offensive bar... At the loss of 3% health...

These changes do absolutely nothing to address long standing balance issues.

Merciless never needed change to allow you to hold it indefinitely.

The unique no name damage buffs are way too strong.

But honestly just would like an answer to your own statement. How did this change effect anything for Nightblade dominance in PvP? Can you please elaborate.

Why do you hate Nightblade?
If you use the strongest Sorcerer, you will understand that Nightblade is trash in PvP.
Or you could use the Arcanist or Dragonknight.
If you use the class correctly, Nightblade is just trash.

Pelanora

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Daedric Curse:

"This ability and its morphs now deal their full damage in an area around the cursed enemy, rather than dealing full damage to the cursed enemy and half damage in an area around them."

So, umm... can some one explain to me if I am understanding this correctly ? I mean from the looks of it, if I understand this correctly, it means that Daedric Curse, Daedric Prey and Haunting Curse will no longer deal dmg to the target, but rather to every one around the target in the AOE.

So.... Technically, assuming it is true, then it kinda, sort off should no longer break invisibility/cloak/Invisibility potions and crouch stealth, cuz those are broken only on taking direct damage.

So if only one guy is standing in the area he gets the full whack of damage? Or how is this going to work?

Firstmep

master_vanargand wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

So just want to pull a blurb from the class balance section.

"Shifted numerous Nightblade abilities to improve their thematic tie into their skill line, while simultaneously addressing some long-standing balance issues the class has had in PvP environments."

Think it's safe to say most nightblades run 1-2 heavy pieces (so 14-16 seconds).

If the intention of this change was to make micromanaging Resolve more involved, well it's not. Path/cloak are used very frequently and will make the uptime on Resolve very easy to manage.

Moving to veiled strike moving to the assassination tree. So nightblades now get ANOTHER 2% crit chance on their offensive bar... At the loss of 3% health...

These changes do absolutely nothing to address long standing balance issues.

Merciless never needed change to allow you to hold it indefinitely.

The unique no name damage buffs are way too strong.

But honestly just would like an answer to your own statement. How did this change effect anything for Nightblade dominance in PvP? Can you please elaborate.

Why do you hate Nightblade?
If you use the strongest Sorcerer, you will understand that Nightblade is trash in PvP.
Or you could use the Arcanist or Dragonknight.
If you use the class correctly, Nightblade is just trash.

Xd.

Nah, NB dmg is absurdly overtuned in pvp. Not even sorc comes close to NB in terms of numbers.

FuryOfTyphon

Absolutely love that Necro has gotten some attention... But please reconsider which skills were changed.

The class has needed Major Sorcery/Brutality since it was released, and I am happy it has finally got it.
But it would make much more sense to tie these Major buffs to the the core damage ability of the class, Blastbones.

Blastbones is a key skill in both PvP and PvE.
And Skeletal Mage is a purely PvE skill.

Putting Major Sorcery/Brutality on Skeletal Mage is forcing PvPers to use a bar slot for this key buff basically what we are already doing with entropy or run potions which we are also already doing.

Having it on Blastbones would make both PvPers and and PvErs happy.

Ekyos

Hello !

I very much like the changes for both Necromancers (they really needed some love) and Nightblades, thank you !

For Wardens, I don't see how a passive called "Piercing Cold" should buff tanking.

I think this passive should just be a generic buff like "Increase cold and bleed damage by 4/8%", which would be a long time coming. Wardens are associated with cold and bleed damage the same way Dragonknights are associated with fire and poison damage or Sorcerers with lightning and physical damage, no need for a complicated passive with conditional bonuses.

When you take into consideration the names and images of the Winter's Embrace passives, I think it could be better to transfer the Glacial Presence bonus (increased chill damage) to Icy Aura, and the Icy Aura bonus (reduced snares effectiveness) to Glacial Presence. And instead of giving the increased blocked damage bonus to Piercing Cold, which doesn't make much sense thematically, you can give it to Glacial Presence.

That way, Glacial Presence and its big shielded boy would have nice tank bonuses (reduced snares effectiveness and increased blocked damage) and Icy Aura would increase chill damage, which is very nice thematically, while Piercing Cold would finally do what its name implies, making ennemies bleed with ice.

I don't think having access simultaneously to these two new bonuses (cold and bleed damage + increased blocked damage) would make either tank or DPS Wardens too strong, but you can always tweak the numbers if needed. The increased blocked damage doesn't seem that necessary for tanks though, while the increased damage very much is for DPS.

I don't know what to think of the changes for Arctic Blast. Being both a PvE and PvP player, I'd rather keep the burst heal + AoE DoT and just remove the stun entirely, which is quite clunky to use effectively in PvP. In my opinion, Bursting Vines would be a far better candidate to stun an ennemy. That way, this morph would swing the Warden to an enemy while stunning it (and it's possible to add a debuff, some damage or a self-heal in there), while Nature's Embrace would be the morph that improves the main skill by healing both the friendly target and the caster (and maybe adding some upfront healing ?).
Subterrannean Assault could also stun the ennemies on the first or second damage iteration for example.

In both cases, it would be a more straightforward and less clunky stun, and it would make Arctic Blast less overwhelming (even if I don't think it's strong enough to warrant a nerf in the first place).

Appart from that, I think the change for Arcanists' Flail is a bit pointless, if you want the other morph to be more useful, you would need to nerf the beam that also consume crux, not the Flail morph, but I really don't want to stop using the beam, so yeah...

Thank you, bye !

Tommy_The_Gun

So I have played for a while on PTS and I wanted to say something regarding Nightbalde changes:

1. While I do understand the idea behind switching NB skills around from one skill line to another, I have realised that implementation is really poor. Skills were just swapped, but without any consideration of consequences or "what if ?"

Addressing the Elephant in the room: Right now, there is not a single stamina costing skill or stamina morph in Nightbalde Shadow skill line.

This means that Shadow skill line & its passive is exclusively magicka costing and Stamina builds will be at a huge disadvantage, to the point in which they might even be not viable for some more demanding content. This was never the case in the past as NB always had at least one non-magicka costing skill in every of it's skill lines.

There is also an issue with rotation, because on a Stam NB it will be much harder as you will need to actively "track" Shadow Barrier buff and re-cast a Shadow skill when the passive is ending, regardless if you really need to cast a shadow skill or not.

Stam NB already had very difficult rotation, but now in order to keep a very strong survivability buff (not only tanks use it) it will get even more complicated.

Magicka NB on the other hand is in a way better spot, as from my testing it seems like it is either the same or slightly better than live server.

Mag NB tends to cast a lot of Path of Darkness in the rotation, while Stam is using Veiled Strike as spamable ,so in order to get the buff Stam NB will have to cast something else without somehow running out of magicka. As mentioned earlier even taking into account casting Shadow skill every 12 - 14 seconds, it still breaks the rotation.

Stam & Mag already had big disproportions on live (mag is way ahead) and this change is making this disproportion greater.

This imho should be addressed and at least one Shadow skill should be altered to cost your highest resource pool. It is the bare minimum that should be changed and if it wont be addressed, then it will make 1/3 toolkit kinda inacasable due to already stressed magicak management on Stamina build (yes, stamina NB already has a lot of magicka costing skills to cast).

2. Consuming Darkness is still the worst ultimate ability in the game. I mean seriously. This ultimate is a meme. You are specifically looking at NB Shadow skill line and you did not addressed that ? ? ? Why ? What is going on ? ? ?

System_Data

Pleasantly surprise reading the patch notes, it might make me return from hiatus. I'm sure numbers and implementations will have to be adjusted, but overall like the direction of the changes.

Regarding Arctic Blast, i think it would be simpler to have it just deal AoE Damage. If other players want a heal, there's Polar Wind, Fungal Growth or Resolving Vigor for on demand heals. I think it's silly that there was a heal that was scaling with damage in the first place.

Full damage builds should be glass canons and tank build should not be dealing high damage. It's why this game has been enduring a tank meta in PvP for almost a decade.

PvP balance in ESO has always struggled, i honestly play something else if i want my PvP fix.


Edit:
What if Arctic Blast became an aoe spammable with an unblockable stun, upon a successful stun you gain a 10% increase to your damage done for 3 seconds.

It would synergize with setting up warden's burst in PvP. Its AoE factor would make it harder to sustain the damage buff by stunning other targets so that it's harder to abuse. Although nice to have, PvE wardens wouldn't depend on it as the condition for the damage increase relies on a successful stun. It would also help with the slight damage nerf from the proposed changes on Piercing Cold.

As for how PvE wardens could make up for the Piercing Cold adjustment, give Scorch a buff that provides 5% increase to your damage done for 10 seconds upon successfully hitting an enemy per cast, stacking up to 3 times for a total of 15% damage increase. This would benefit mostly the PvE side as PvP is more mobile which makes it harder to maintain the stacks.

gariondavey

RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »

Cast time scribed skills have a doo-doo time keeping up 10s duration buffs. A solution is needed, especially for Sorcery/Brutality/Prophecy/Savagery. At bare minimum, these 4 should have a longer duration since they're so necessary for any damage setup

This. @ZOS_Kevin please relay this information

ZDunlain

About templars

Talking purely from a PvP perspective:

The only thing they changed is adding more time on the buffs on dark flare... And still being an useless skill because the time it takes to travel to the enemy is horrendous and the most predictable skill ever, and all of that without mentioning the cast time lol. It should massively improve the skill and not do this little tweaks.

Also we have problems with our burst, idk why you need 6k dps in order to deal all the burst damage (and in PvP that is really really hard) meanwhile warden and nb have the easiest burst with no requirements... Please, reduce the dps needed to 3k over those 6 sec, it will not affect PvE...

Anyone remembers sun shield right? Yeah, because it is useless outside of tanking and even in tanking it is simply meh and outdated compared to tother class shields.

All of what I said have been told in forums constantly but you dont care at all, or maybe you care and need 1 or 2 years to make changes like you are gonna make with necro.

I dont know I am exhausted about giving feedback and read feedback regarding PvP templars and no one seems to care at all. Lot of patches and only you can see is oblivion on templar and maybe necros are even better than templars now, lets see.

I think it is because templar is on a good spot in PvE DD, but dk TOO and they are ALSO one of the best tanks and ALSO a very good top tier class in PvP (right now behind nb and sorc). Templar healers got nothing and provides nothing compared to warden healers and nb healers so people stop using it in endgame groups, the only healer role they have is on PvP ballgroups and even now sorcs are better in that role lol...

Hey and I dont even mention jabs, absolute terrible since u35. Also PLEASE GOD, reduce the damage of radiand destruction and take back old jabs that proc better the burning light passive (and also the older burning light) in order to give the class more damage previous of execute phase and reduce the execute damage to make it more enjoyable to play not just as a beambot that expend 2/5 of the fight beaming a meatbag.

Repeating this things over and over is exhausting tbh and I will stop to do it soon (as many good players here did) if nothing happens on the Q4 PvP focused patch.

SkaiFaith

I give my agree to what Decimus, Lags and Ekyos said.

I'll add the perspective of a solo PvEer copying here what I reported in another thread.


"Solo Warden PvEer - I don't like the direction.
People are already asking to also nerf Polar Wind for PvP. If this trend continues, Wardens will no longer be good to solo hard content, like Archive.

To me Wardens on live were completely fine.
While I don't PvP, what I get is that Warden's unique play style let the player stack a lot of health gaining some skills that do more damage or more healing scaling on health as a reward for the risk of constantly being low on Stamina and Magicka with low sustain.
This was making the class so exciting to play!

Changing bonuses for high health constraining the player to the tank role, nerfing the healing and/or damage, and removing the frosty theme... What does remain of Warden's prior identity?
And solo Wardens will have a hard time with both damage and healing reduced - even more if Polar Wind is going to get nerfed next based on PvPers complaints.

Please, just don't. This direction is bad for so many..."


And I'll add to this that while some Wardens stack on health, you can take advantage of them being low on the other resources to kill them in PvP - every time I die in PvE is because I'm at 0 Stam or Mag. PvPers should "work on that" pressure to overcome a high health player - which btw, Polar Wind just heals 2 people... It's simply fundamental for Player + Companion, and doesn't heal entire groups in PvP so it is rightly a greater heal. I mean it should not be on par with other heals, could be adjusted but not nerfed to the ground.

KlauthWarthog

Regarding the passive Undeath, just change it to grant Major Protection while you have a vampire skill active, or for X seconds after casting one. Stop tiptoeing around the obvious solution.

Aces-High-82

Firstmep wrote: »

My thoughts so far:

Arcanist: Honestly good change, especially.for pvp. Finally arcanist will have to spend Crux on the offensive instead of just spamming shields ad nauseum.

Nb: i like them moving skills in the proper skill lines, but in was hoping it would be accompanied by some healthy downward adjustments to their burst dmg. No class wearing 3 proc sets should be hitting 12-15knburst with their skills on top.

Sorc: Hardened ward is the most complained about skill atm and instead of addressing it they gave sorcs max range shalks.

Templar: the one change to dark flare isnt going to make the skill usable. Lose the empower from this morph for a better buff or debuff. No heavy attack builds will use a cast time spammable when the other morph is a 22 sec duration aoe that deals passive damage.

Warden: Soft caps? Also, tanky 45k hp wardens sure needed the extra block mitigation.

Necro: you have given in class access to major buffs, but this only brings necro to where bad classes were like 5 years ago. We have arcanist, dk, nightblades and sorcs getting every buff under the sun just for slotting already powerful skill on any bar, and instead of doing that for necro you put their major buffs on offensive abilities. Ask templars how many of them use sun fire for the major prophecy.

Scribing: people asked for longer duration on major buffs, instead you nerf them all down to 10 sec.
Did you guys ever use trample before? Do you seriously expect me to use a 1.5 second cast time skill that randomly fires off down yonder unless I precisely aim to gain major savagery for 10 whole seconds?
Btw Elemental explosion doesn't have prophecy and savagery...

Ohh...Curse ist now applying 10k pen?

Firstmep

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

My thoughts so far:

Arcanist: Honestly good change, especially.for pvp. Finally arcanist will have to spend Crux on the offensive instead of just spamming shields ad nauseum.

Nb: i like them moving skills in the proper skill lines, but in was hoping it would be accompanied by some healthy downward adjustments to their burst dmg. No class wearing 3 proc sets should be hitting 12-15knburst with their skills on top.

Sorc: Hardened ward is the most complained about skill atm and instead of addressing it they gave sorcs max range shalks.

Templar: the one change to dark flare isnt going to make the skill usable. Lose the empower from this morph for a better buff or debuff. No heavy attack builds will use a cast time spammable when the other morph is a 22 sec duration aoe that deals passive damage.

Warden: Soft caps? Also, tanky 45k hp wardens sure needed the extra block mitigation.

Necro: you have given in class access to major buffs, but this only brings necro to where bad classes were like 5 years ago. We have arcanist, dk, nightblades and sorcs getting every buff under the sun just for slotting already powerful skill on any bar, and instead of doing that for necro you put their major buffs on offensive abilities. Ask templars how many of them use sun fire for the major prophecy.

Scribing: people asked for longer duration on major buffs, instead you nerf them all down to 10 sec.
Did you guys ever use trample before? Do you seriously expect me to use a 1.5 second cast time skill that randomly fires off down yonder unless I precisely aim to gain major savagery for 10 whole seconds?
Btw Elemental explosion doesn't have prophecy and savagery...

Ohh...Curse ist now applying 10k pen?

It does full aoe damage around the target.

Turtle_Bot

Firstmep wrote: »

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

My thoughts so far:

Arcanist: Honestly good change, especially.for pvp. Finally arcanist will have to spend Crux on the offensive instead of just spamming shields ad nauseum.

Nb: i like them moving skills in the proper skill lines, but in was hoping it would be accompanied by some healthy downward adjustments to their burst dmg. No class wearing 3 proc sets should be hitting 12-15knburst with their skills on top.

Sorc: Hardened ward is the most complained about skill atm and instead of addressing it they gave sorcs max range shalks.

Templar: the one change to dark flare isnt going to make the skill usable. Lose the empower from this morph for a better buff or debuff. No heavy attack builds will use a cast time spammable when the other morph is a 22 sec duration aoe that deals passive damage.

Warden: Soft caps? Also, tanky 45k hp wardens sure needed the extra block mitigation.

Necro: you have given in class access to major buffs, but this only brings necro to where bad classes were like 5 years ago. We have arcanist, dk, nightblades and sorcs getting every buff under the sun just for slotting already powerful skill on any bar, and instead of doing that for necro you put their major buffs on offensive abilities. Ask templars how many of them use sun fire for the major prophecy.

Scribing: people asked for longer duration on major buffs, instead you nerf them all down to 10 sec.
Did you guys ever use trample before? Do you seriously expect me to use a 1.5 second cast time skill that randomly fires off down yonder unless I precisely aim to gain major savagery for 10 whole seconds?
Btw Elemental explosion doesn't have prophecy and savagery...

Ohh...Curse ist now applying 10k pen?

It does full aoe damage around the target.

It can also now be blocked, which is a huge nerf to the ability

xylena_lazarow

Piercing Cold change is horrible for PvP Warden. It deletes 12% damage from actual damage builds and replaces it with a stalemate passive. It buffs the damage of SnB permablock DDs though. Disgusting.

jaws343

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

My thoughts so far:

Arcanist: Honestly good change, especially.for pvp. Finally arcanist will have to spend Crux on the offensive instead of just spamming shields ad nauseum.

Nb: i like them moving skills in the proper skill lines, but in was hoping it would be accompanied by some healthy downward adjustments to their burst dmg. No class wearing 3 proc sets should be hitting 12-15knburst with their skills on top.

Sorc: Hardened ward is the most complained about skill atm and instead of addressing it they gave sorcs max range shalks.

Templar: the one change to dark flare isnt going to make the skill usable. Lose the empower from this morph for a better buff or debuff. No heavy attack builds will use a cast time spammable when the other morph is a 22 sec duration aoe that deals passive damage.

Warden: Soft caps? Also, tanky 45k hp wardens sure needed the extra block mitigation.

Necro: you have given in class access to major buffs, but this only brings necro to where bad classes were like 5 years ago. We have arcanist, dk, nightblades and sorcs getting every buff under the sun just for slotting already powerful skill on any bar, and instead of doing that for necro you put their major buffs on offensive abilities. Ask templars how many of them use sun fire for the major prophecy.

Scribing: people asked for longer duration on major buffs, instead you nerf them all down to 10 sec.
Did you guys ever use trample before? Do you seriously expect me to use a 1.5 second cast time skill that randomly fires off down yonder unless I precisely aim to gain major savagery for 10 whole seconds?
Btw Elemental explosion doesn't have prophecy and savagery...

Ohh...Curse ist now applying 10k pen?

It does full aoe damage around the target.

It can also now be blocked, which is a huge nerf to the ability

The full AOE damage is only really practical in PVE, where sorc is severely lacking in cleave damage. So that will be nice. But it will pretty much be ignored in PVP. But yeah, it being blockable just throws another skill into the avoidable column for sorc burst. Only bad players are going to die to sorcs next patch. Bad players or execute stealing.

Turtle_Bot

jaws343 wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

My thoughts so far:

Arcanist: Honestly good change, especially.for pvp. Finally arcanist will have to spend Crux on the offensive instead of just spamming shields ad nauseum.

Nb: i like them moving skills in the proper skill lines, but in was hoping it would be accompanied by some healthy downward adjustments to their burst dmg. No class wearing 3 proc sets should be hitting 12-15knburst with their skills on top.

Sorc: Hardened ward is the most complained about skill atm and instead of addressing it they gave sorcs max range shalks.

Templar: the one change to dark flare isnt going to make the skill usable. Lose the empower from this morph for a better buff or debuff. No heavy attack builds will use a cast time spammable when the other morph is a 22 sec duration aoe that deals passive damage.

Warden: Soft caps? Also, tanky 45k hp wardens sure needed the extra block mitigation.

Necro: you have given in class access to major buffs, but this only brings necro to where bad classes were like 5 years ago. We have arcanist, dk, nightblades and sorcs getting every buff under the sun just for slotting already powerful skill on any bar, and instead of doing that for necro you put their major buffs on offensive abilities. Ask templars how many of them use sun fire for the major prophecy.

Scribing: people asked for longer duration on major buffs, instead you nerf them all down to 10 sec.
Did you guys ever use trample before? Do you seriously expect me to use a 1.5 second cast time skill that randomly fires off down yonder unless I precisely aim to gain major savagery for 10 whole seconds?
Btw Elemental explosion doesn't have prophecy and savagery...

Ohh...Curse ist now applying 10k pen?

It does full aoe damage around the target.

It can also now be blocked, which is a huge nerf to the ability

The full AOE damage is only really practical in PVE, where sorc is severely lacking in cleave damage. So that will be nice. But it will pretty much be ignored in PVP. But yeah, it being blockable just throws another skill into the avoidable column for sorc burst. Only bad players are going to die to sorcs next patch. Bad players or execute stealing.

100% yeah, I was referring to curse in PvP with being blockable, it being fully AoE is actually a really nice QoL buff for no-pet sorc for PvE to finally give it some viable cleave that it has indeed been lacking for a very long time there.

xylena_lazarow

Piercing Cold is a horrible change to PvP Warden DD. Unnecessary damage loss, pushes Frost Warden towards stalemate builds, pushes ranged DD to Lightning Staff instead, pushes melee brawler towards SnB permablock. None of those are good things, they are all destruction of class identity and damage in favor of generic power and stalemates.

Stafford197

PvE Frost Mages (Warden) got nerfed, Necro had to wait 5 years to get the essential Majors buffs, and now Undeath is for stage 1 vamps.
How does this happen?

ESO is now 10 years old and yet your design philosophy is still changing. Sometimes for better, often for worse, and never close to finished. From the Patch Note Dev Comments, to the recent ESO Live, to general lack of communication with the community… it all seems like there is no passion from ZOS anymore.

I hope you guys figure it out but it’s astonishing the kind of potential that ESO had which has been mostly thrown away over its lifetime.

CameraBeardThePirate

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

My thoughts so far:

Arcanist: Honestly good change, especially.for pvp. Finally arcanist will have to spend Crux on the offensive instead of just spamming shields ad nauseum.

Nb: i like them moving skills in the proper skill lines, but in was hoping it would be accompanied by some healthy downward adjustments to their burst dmg. No class wearing 3 proc sets should be hitting 12-15knburst with their skills on top.

Sorc: Hardened ward is the most complained about skill atm and instead of addressing it they gave sorcs max range shalks.

Templar: the one change to dark flare isnt going to make the skill usable. Lose the empower from this morph for a better buff or debuff. No heavy attack builds will use a cast time spammable when the other morph is a 22 sec duration aoe that deals passive damage.

Warden: Soft caps? Also, tanky 45k hp wardens sure needed the extra block mitigation.

Necro: you have given in class access to major buffs, but this only brings necro to where bad classes were like 5 years ago. We have arcanist, dk, nightblades and sorcs getting every buff under the sun just for slotting already powerful skill on any bar, and instead of doing that for necro you put their major buffs on offensive abilities. Ask templars how many of them use sun fire for the major prophecy.

Scribing: people asked for longer duration on major buffs, instead you nerf them all down to 10 sec.
Did you guys ever use trample before? Do you seriously expect me to use a 1.5 second cast time skill that randomly fires off down yonder unless I precisely aim to gain major savagery for 10 whole seconds?
Btw Elemental explosion doesn't have prophecy and savagery...

Ohh...Curse ist now applying 10k pen?

It does full aoe damage around the target.

It can also now be blocked, which is a huge nerf to the ability

Any sorc worth their salt will line up a streak with their curse proc. Being able to block it will not affect sorcs that know what they're doing.

BananaBender

Hello! My feedback is from a PvE player's point of view.

Regarding the recent Warden changes:
Stamina Warden feels a lot better. The damage boost feels noticeable with the new passive and the new set.
Sadly now that Warden doesn't gain any buffs for using and Ice Staff, the best weapon setup is going to be DW and Maelstrom 2H, as it is with pretty much all classes. Warden's spammable options are quite bad compared to other classes, which further limits your choices to weapons which can offer a spammable that is worth using. In most cases if not all it's either Rapid Strikes or Whirling Blades. You backbar weapon doesn't see too much variety either, since Maelstrom Greatsword works on your Chilled procs, there is pretty much no reason to use anything else now, even in cleave situations.

So overall Stamina Warden feels better, though the class identity of being a Warden is pretty much non existent.
When it comes to Magicka Warden things are not looking too good. It suffers from the same problem of having no good spammables, but since the game is missing a good magicka spammables, your options are very limited. Destructive Reach not a good option, since there is no reason of using an Ice Staff front bar, Wield Soul with the Frost damage just didn't deal enough damage to compete with the live version of Frost Warden. Sustain was also a massive issue, I was consistently running out of stamina and magicka on pretty much all setups viable enough for actual content, meaning I was forced to use recovery foods which do not give any HP, making you extremely likely to die in trials, especially in HM content.

All in all, magicka Warden felt awful to play. For anyone who is interested, the best result I had was with Asylum Inferno staff front bar, with Maelstrom Greatsword on the back bar with Relequen, Zaan and Velothi with 2pc Tarnished Nightmare for the crit. Damage was still 10-15k lower than on live server and felt way worse to play.

Warden's skills are in dire need of a damage buff, most if your damage is tied to Subterranean Assault, your bear, the Chilled status effect, which was a cool theme and now pretty much dead and the standard interaction with Rapid Strikes and Maelstrom 2h. Rest of the Warden toolkit do nearly no damage and function only as just another extra DoT to apply on the enemy. While I'm sure you can now get some really high parse numbers on Stamden, in content none of that matters. Single target damage is so rarely required in trials and when it is, other classes just do it so much better. Warden lacks any synergy with ultimates, as the bear provides good sustained damage, but in majority of the situations not what's needed. Bosses move and have mechanics etc. So higher damage in a short window is much much better than a little bit of sustained damage over time. This is one of the reasons why DK's and Arcanists are way better than other classes to fill your group with.

About the new Infinite Archive set for Warden, the damage seems fine, nothing out of this world, but also not terrible. I would like to see a slight or even a large increase in the damage boost to Warden's skills, since as I mentioned earlier, they tend to underperform. This would boost Warden's cleave nicely by buffing Subterranean Assault or the magicka morph of it.

I wish there was a way to bring back the effectiveness of Ice Staves on warden, since it was one of my favourite classes to play, and it actually felt unique and refreshing to play something that isn't a copy of another class. Now it feels borderline unplayable. It's just a necromancer with different animations and somehow even worse damage and sustain.

tonyaccount

As a player who only plays one character(which is a necro) the necro changes are largely awesome and I'm happy with them. But now that we are at finally at fixing and it probably takes a while until it happens again, I would propose the following changes:

1. As others have mentioned, moving the Major Sorcery/Brutality from Skeletal Mage to Grave Lord's Sacrifice would make it more accessible for PvP without really having impact on PvE. Skeletal Mage is quite bad in PvP and necros desperately need the extra slot to be somewhat competitive.

2. Make the Major Sorcery/Brutality/Prophecy/Savagery work on both bars, allowing them to be slotted on backbar if necessary. Again a nice QOL change that adds a little bit of flexibility. Nevermind, both of them are active for 20sec from casting. This one can be disregarded.

3. Give Necro a respectable CC. I would suggest Empowering Grasp stunning anything that it hits, up to a maximum of 2 players, prioritizing closer targets. It is quite difficult to line up against a distant target, but when used well would do a good job.

4. Make the Avid Boneyard morph purely selfish and buff its size from 6m to 8m. Change the synergy damage back to pre-nerf damage a few patches ago(slight buff), and change the tooltip to "You or an ally standing in the graveyard can activate the Grave Robber Synergy, dealing X Frost Damage to enemies in the area and healing for the damage done." This will be useful in both PvP and PvE, giving you a reliable burst synergy and a heal that others can't steal. A unique and fun interaction that the game needs more of.

5. Buff the Skeletal Mage to a viable state and make it attack the target your Blastbones/heavy attack targets. Since U35 this ability has just been low impact and necro could use a PvE damage buff. We are talking about pretty much doubling the damage of the mage, that's how bad this ability is.

Afterip

master_vanargand wrote: »

you will understand that Nightblade is trash in PvP.
If you use the class correctly, Nightblade is just trash.

You just gave me an extra 10 years of life, because a good laugh prolongs life. Thank you!

Jsmalls

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

My thoughts so far:

Arcanist: Honestly good change, especially.for pvp. Finally arcanist will have to spend Crux on the offensive instead of just spamming shields ad nauseum.

Nb: i like them moving skills in the proper skill lines, but in was hoping it would be accompanied by some healthy downward adjustments to their burst dmg. No class wearing 3 proc sets should be hitting 12-15knburst with their skills on top.

Sorc: Hardened ward is the most complained about skill atm and instead of addressing it they gave sorcs max range shalks.

Templar: the one change to dark flare isnt going to make the skill usable. Lose the empower from this morph for a better buff or debuff. No heavy attack builds will use a cast time spammable when the other morph is a 22 sec duration aoe that deals passive damage.

Warden: Soft caps? Also, tanky 45k hp wardens sure needed the extra block mitigation.

Necro: you have given in class access to major buffs, but this only brings necro to where bad classes were like 5 years ago. We have arcanist, dk, nightblades and sorcs getting every buff under the sun just for slotting already powerful skill on any bar, and instead of doing that for necro you put their major buffs on offensive abilities. Ask templars how many of them use sun fire for the major prophecy.

Scribing: people asked for longer duration on major buffs, instead you nerf them all down to 10 sec.
Did you guys ever use trample before? Do you seriously expect me to use a 1.5 second cast time skill that randomly fires off down yonder unless I precisely aim to gain major savagery for 10 whole seconds?
Btw Elemental explosion doesn't have prophecy and savagery...

Ohh...Curse ist now applying 10k pen?

It does full aoe damage around the target.

It can also now be blocked, which is a huge nerf to the ability

Any sorc worth their salt will line up a streak with their curse proc. Being able to block it will not affect sorcs that know what they're doing.

@CameraBeardThePirate
@Turtle_Bot

Regardless of individual skill level those who choose to use Curse consecutively instead of waiting for the 2nd explosion will be unable to ensure it hits unblocked 50% of the time (probably a little less than 50% if evaluated over the course of several applications but you get my point).

This is coming from a Sorc that already streaks right before the curse goes off from sheer instincts (was evaluating myself yesterday while playing it's unhealthy how well I do this without thinking).

That being said let's not twist words, this is a NERF plain and simple regardless of skill level.

Even in GvG where CC's are stolen a lot, this is a serious nerf.

It's fine it's not the end of the world, but let's not let our own Bias cloud facts

CameraBeardThePirate

Jsmalls wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

My thoughts so far:

Arcanist: Honestly good change, especially.for pvp. Finally arcanist will have to spend Crux on the offensive instead of just spamming shields ad nauseum.

Nb: i like them moving skills in the proper skill lines, but in was hoping it would be accompanied by some healthy downward adjustments to their burst dmg. No class wearing 3 proc sets should be hitting 12-15knburst with their skills on top.

Sorc: Hardened ward is the most complained about skill atm and instead of addressing it they gave sorcs max range shalks.

Templar: the one change to dark flare isnt going to make the skill usable. Lose the empower from this morph for a better buff or debuff. No heavy attack builds will use a cast time spammable when the other morph is a 22 sec duration aoe that deals passive damage.

Warden: Soft caps? Also, tanky 45k hp wardens sure needed the extra block mitigation.

Necro: you have given in class access to major buffs, but this only brings necro to where bad classes were like 5 years ago. We have arcanist, dk, nightblades and sorcs getting every buff under the sun just for slotting already powerful skill on any bar, and instead of doing that for necro you put their major buffs on offensive abilities. Ask templars how many of them use sun fire for the major prophecy.

Scribing: people asked for longer duration on major buffs, instead you nerf them all down to 10 sec.
Did you guys ever use trample before? Do you seriously expect me to use a 1.5 second cast time skill that randomly fires off down yonder unless I precisely aim to gain major savagery for 10 whole seconds?
Btw Elemental explosion doesn't have prophecy and savagery...

Ohh...Curse ist now applying 10k pen?

It does full aoe damage around the target.

It can also now be blocked, which is a huge nerf to the ability

Any sorc worth their salt will line up a streak with their curse proc. Being able to block it will not affect sorcs that know what they're doing.

@CameraBeardThePirate
@Turtle_Bot

Regardless of individual skill level those who choose to use Curse consecutively instead of waiting for the 2nd explosion will be unable to ensure it hits unblocked 50% of the time (probably a little less than 50% if evaluated over the course of several applications but you get my point).

This is coming from a Sorc that already streaks right before the curse goes off from sheer instincts (was evaluating myself yesterday while playing it's unhealthy how well I do this without thinking).

That being said let's not twist words, this is a NERF plain and simple regardless of skill level.

Even in GvG where CC's are stolen a lot, this is a serious nerf.

It's fine it's not the end of the world, but let's not let our own Bias cloud facts

Yes it's a nerf, but it really isn't as serious as you're making it out to be.

The amount of players in this game skilled enough to
A) Recognize they have Curse on them
B ) Know when the Curse is about to explode
C) Remember to tap block when the Curse is about to explode
is laughably small. Most players in Cyrodiil can't even break free in a consistently short amount of time. Sorcs are going to be just fine.

Turtle_Bot

Jsmalls wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

My thoughts so far:

Arcanist: Honestly good change, especially.for pvp. Finally arcanist will have to spend Crux on the offensive instead of just spamming shields ad nauseum.

Nb: i like them moving skills in the proper skill lines, but in was hoping it would be accompanied by some healthy downward adjustments to their burst dmg. No class wearing 3 proc sets should be hitting 12-15knburst with their skills on top.

Sorc: Hardened ward is the most complained about skill atm and instead of addressing it they gave sorcs max range shalks.

Templar: the one change to dark flare isnt going to make the skill usable. Lose the empower from this morph for a better buff or debuff. No heavy attack builds will use a cast time spammable when the other morph is a 22 sec duration aoe that deals passive damage.

Warden: Soft caps? Also, tanky 45k hp wardens sure needed the extra block mitigation.

Necro: you have given in class access to major buffs, but this only brings necro to where bad classes were like 5 years ago. We have arcanist, dk, nightblades and sorcs getting every buff under the sun just for slotting already powerful skill on any bar, and instead of doing that for necro you put their major buffs on offensive abilities. Ask templars how many of them use sun fire for the major prophecy.

Scribing: people asked for longer duration on major buffs, instead you nerf them all down to 10 sec.
Did you guys ever use trample before? Do you seriously expect me to use a 1.5 second cast time skill that randomly fires off down yonder unless I precisely aim to gain major savagery for 10 whole seconds?
Btw Elemental explosion doesn't have prophecy and savagery...

Ohh...Curse ist now applying 10k pen?

It does full aoe damage around the target.

It can also now be blocked, which is a huge nerf to the ability

Any sorc worth their salt will line up a streak with their curse proc. Being able to block it will not affect sorcs that know what they're doing.

@CameraBeardThePirate
@Turtle_Bot

Regardless of individual skill level those who choose to use Curse consecutively instead of waiting for the 2nd explosion will be unable to ensure it hits unblocked 50% of the time (probably a little less than 50% if evaluated over the course of several applications but you get my point).

This is coming from a Sorc that already streaks right before the curse goes off from sheer instincts (was evaluating myself yesterday while playing it's unhealthy how well I do this without thinking).

That being said let's not twist words, this is a NERF plain and simple regardless of skill level.

Even in GvG where CC's are stolen a lot, this is a serious nerf.

It's fine it's not the end of the world, but let's not let our own Bias cloud facts

Exactly, any player worth their salt knows that curse is the telegraph to an attempted incoming burst combo and will take appropriate measures to counteract that combo. Those measures also just got much more effective because curse no longer ignores block as well as dodge.

FYI: I actually like the change, it gives PvE no-pet sorc some much needed cleave damage while giving another sorc ability some viable counter play for good skill expression. But this also doesn't mean I'm going to sit there while others try to claim a nerf is anything but.

Skjaldbjorn

After giving this a lot of thought, a solid revision to the Piercing Cold change for Warden could look like this;

While above 32k HP (bumped a bit from 30k), increase your block mitigation by 5/10%. This increases to 6/12% when wielding a frost staff.

While below 32k HP, increase your damage by 4/8%. This increases to 5/10% when wielding a frost staff.

This keeps the flavor of the "ice mage" everyone liked while scaling it down a little bit. It also gives flavor to Warden tanks and gives them incentive to use ice staves more than sword/board.

DrNukenstein

Jsmalls wrote: »

But honestly just would like an answer to your own statement. How did this change effect anything for Nightblade dominance in PvP? Can you please elaborate.

Nightblade dominance? You mean the nightblades with the shields that burst heal, free mobility with CC, and bonkers ranged burst damage?

Nevermind, that's Magsorc. The current overloaded problem class that can survive by spamming one button and do the high end of any other classes point-blank limited burst from range.

They don't even have to announce themselves with curse, but they like to claim that using it is a huge draw back. Really, it is like that. Add up the numbers for force pulse, crystal weapon, and power overload then multiply the number of numbers by 330 (? set). That's how much damage a mag sorc can do almost every second, from downtown, if they want to.

Wanna make it a beeeeeg burst that you can do every other second? Crushing weapon>power overload>frag. That is basically the BFG from quake.

And sure, you can claim that a person focused on you will dodge and block just like how it is for anyone on any other class. The difference is sorc is the one class that absolutely does not have to be standing on top of their enemy to do their damage, and can just spam their damage over and over until they eventually win the stamina game.

CameraBeardThePirate

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

But honestly just would like an answer to your own statement. How did this change effect anything for Nightblade dominance in PvP? Can you please elaborate.

Nightblade dominance? You mean the nightblades with the shields that burst heal, free mobility with CC, and bonkers ranged burst damage?

Nevermind, that's Magsorc. The current overloaded problem class that can survive by spamming one button and do the high end of any other classes point-blank limited burst from range.

They don't even have to announce themselves with curse, but they like to claim that using it is a huge draw back. Really, it is like that. Add up the numbers for force pulse, crystal weapon, and power overload then multiply the number of numbers by 330 (? set). That's how much damage a mag sorc can do almost every second, from downtown, if they want to.

Wanna make it a beeeeeg burst that you can do every other second? Crushing weapon>power overload>frag. That is basically the BFG from quake.

And sure, you can claim that a person focused on you will dodge and block just like how it is for anyone on any other class. The difference is sorc is the one class that absolutely does not have to be standing on top of their enemy to do their damage, and can just spam their damage over and over until they eventually win the stamina game.

Oh please. Magsorcs and Nightblades are both overtuned right now. Both classes have nigh infinite sustain, great escape tools, way too much damage, and high mobility + survivability.