"You will not be able to outfit your character in class styles other than your current class."

AScarlato

FluffyBird wrote: »

BahometZ wrote: »

I can see people are upset, but I think time and perspective will enable people to move beyond grief and into acceptance. Everything will be okay.

Move beyond grief into acceptance of other games, sure.

Welp if not having access to one set of class motifs out of 100s available is too much for you that you need to leave, I can't say you appear to be that into the game to begin with. Else this is just idle threats common on forums.

ColovianHastur

BahometZ wrote: »

Whsts next? What's next?? None of those things.
What's with the wild speculation and drama, this isn't a retrospective change to previous styles. They're introducing one element of exclusivity and class flavour, and people are acting like they're being shackled in prison garb. [snip]

If they wanted exclusivity, then they shouldn't have done One Tamriel in the first place. Or allowed freedom of armour and weaponry to all classes.

Also, this is a feedback forum. People have a right to be angry or complain about unwanted changes or additions, with class-restricted motifs clearly being one.

[edited to remove quote]

RenReptile

Just by the sheer fact that this idea made it so far to the patch notes instead of being shot down after being suggested is absolutely wild to me.

It is annoying enough that a number of Appearance items are race-specific but now this annoyance is starting to leak over to outfit styles too? Bah! Wrong direction in my opinion. Never-mind the fact that we had to wait this long before the ability to even begin to start the grind for the chance to get a page.

Heck, I would love to see that Appearance items stack on a character. IE: Combine Maddening Mishap AND Werewolf Claw Body Scars "Body Markings" applied at the same time.

Reverse course on proceeding with this decision ESO.

ColovianHastur

flizomica wrote: »

One thing I did notice on PTS that is different from live is that equipping at least 5 of the class set style outfit styles unlocks the corresponding class set VFX, which only happens on live if you have 5 of the class set bonuses active. I don't think this was mentioned in the patch notes?

@ZOS_Kevin, @ZOS_GinaBruno - is this behavior intended? If it is, the change to lock styles to classes makes more sense given the added VFX was previously only associated with the set bonuses, which is already class-locked. Personally I would rather have no VFX associated with the style and also not lock the styles to classes, i.e. the same behavior as in the preview on live.





The first image shows my character triggering the VFX on PTS by equipping enough of the outfit styles, and the second image shows the VFX disappearing after I remove some of the outfit styles.

I mean, if the entire gimmick of this is simply some minor special effects, then simply turn those into a minor adornment or something of the sort that changes its visual effect depending on the class you have, and leave the motifs available for all classes, as they should be.

Forcing you to play a specific class just so you can wear a specific motif is the antithesis of the whole "play your way" motto ESO has.

I want one of those motifs, but I don't want to play a nightblade. Not very "play my way", is it?

DerAlleinTiger

JakaWild wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

The concept of "class identity", which was never about fashion or style, but about the use of skills, can exist along side freedom of stylistic expression. We can have class identity, and advocate for class identity in terms of skill use, without including fashion in the mix. When people say "class identity" in terms of combat, they are not talking about fashion and what they want to wear.

After all, we don't have to choose one or the other. Cosmetic freedom can exist along side class identity in combat.

Yeah this is just not true. Fashion or style USED to be highly connected to the identity of a class before transmogification became a thing. Being able to look at a character and know just by their style what class they were was a thing.

If i asked you to describe what a Nightblade (rogue archetype) looks like you wouldn't say a heavy armored axe wielding character. You have an image in your head that most people would describe in a very similar way. A very specific style of fashion.Your Cosmetic freedom already exists.You can be a heavy armor "style" rogue. You know what doesn't exist? Unique class styles.

tl:dr Class identity and style/fashion have been connected since dungeons and dragons created those archetypes.

This is just flat out FALSE. I've been playing since beta, and I've played the game every single day since day 1 of early access for the PC release. There was absolutely never a time in this game's history you could look at someone and just know their class based purely on their fashion. You could tell by any abilities they might have up. You could possibly take a guess when there was a particularly strong meta for a particular class. However, there has never once been a time where fashion was determined by class. Every single class has always been able to use any kind of gear they want to fulfill any kind of role they want. Not all DK's are tanks, not all sorcs are mag-DPS, not all templars are healers, not all NB's are stam-DPS. They never have been. Period.

Furthermore, I love the people talking about the 'lore' and 'immersion' of different classes wearing armor that happens to have a tiny little, hard-to-see emblem of another class on them and it suddenly not making any sense at all. Except the classes themselves don't make a whole lot of sense in TES. Yes, they're all vaguely based around concepts and lore within TES, but before ESO there is no grand order of just generic "templars" with specific styles of combat and beliefs. These aren't factions in the lore, unless you're going to tell me every single necromancer is in cahoots with some grand hierarchy (which is very clearly not true by the lore and stories even in ESO itself). The classes were, and always have been, an MMO-ification of the setting and have no real lasting lore impacts. So much so that most serious roleplayers don't even recognize the classes in-character. It's mostly the more casual ones who do because they incorporate game mechanics into their RP more. The classes have no real, solid, lasting lore basis beyond "We needed some classes for an MMO so here's some threadbare lore," let alone an exclusive claim to armor designs. Why should templars, specifically, get crusader-esque armor? Someone might need to tell Pelinal if that's the case. Or are the like half a dozen nightblades actually in the lore the only ones allowed to wear rogue leathers? Come on.

The nature of TES has always been that while there are archetypes, those archetypes are not stereotypes. ESO, until now, has largely continued this tradition by not having class-locked gear (again until now) or roles or races. A Khajiit can wear heavy armor and shoot lightning as a tanky sorc battlemage. They don't have to all be sneaky rogue thief NB's. A DK can be a healer, a templar can be a thief, a sorc can be a ranger, an NB can be a tank. If you ask me, pigeon-holing them into specific armor designs just goes further against the inherent spirit in ESO and its classes than anything. Nevermind that there are loads of armor designs that you can already wear without it matching your race, class, faction, or anything else not because you like the faction it represents but because just plain like the design of it.

Why should these be any different? Absolutely disappointed in this. I was already starting to run the Archive and save up for the pages... but not so much anymore. Really, really disappointing and it's sucked away a lot of my excitement for this update.

DerAlleinTiger

flizomica wrote: »

One thing I did notice on PTS that is different from live is that equipping at least 5 of the class set style outfit styles unlocks the corresponding class set VFX, which only happens on live if you have 5 of the class set bonuses active. I don't think this was mentioned in the patch notes?

@ZOS_Kevin, @ZOS_GinaBruno - is this behavior intended? If it is, the change to lock styles to classes makes more sense given the added VFX was previously only associated with the set bonuses, which is already class-locked. Personally I would rather have no VFX associated with the style and also not lock the styles to classes, i.e. the same behavior as in the preview on live.

*snipped the images*

The first image shows my character triggering the VFX on PTS by equipping enough of the outfit styles, and the second image shows the VFX disappearing after I remove some of the outfit styles.

Eugh! Are you serious? They're adding the glow to the outfit styles too? Cringe. Well, there goes what little excitement I had left. I wish ZOS would stop adding these stupid effects to things that would otherwise be perfectly good, "mundane" aesthetics and ruining them with their flashy light nonsense. Even in the base game, I would have loved to use some of those sets with the floating orbs for their set effects but I hate, hate, hate the orbs constantly floating around. I don't use those sets for that sole reason. Now they're starting to do it with styles too? Monster item styles were one thing, since they were usually overdesigned and over-the-top anyway and I had little interest in them. This is just awful. What a way for my excitement to get absolutely demolished in one thread...

ArchangelIsraphel

Eugh! Are you serious? They're adding the glow to the outfit styles too? Cringe. Well, there goes what little excitement I had left. I wish ZOS would stop adding these stupid effects to things that would otherwise be perfectly good, "mundane" aesthetics and ruining them with their flashy light nonsense. Even in the base game, I would have loved to use some of those sets with the floating orbs for their set effects but I hate, hate, hate the orbs constantly floating around. I don't use those sets for that sole reason. Now they're starting to do it with styles too? Monster item styles were one thing, since they were usually overdesigned and over-the-top anyway and I had little interest in them. This is just awful. What a way for my excitement to get absolutely demolished in one thread...

Yeah, I agree with this. I mean, I have been really enjoying some of the monster styles, and I like a nice shiny weapon or mount once in a while. But some of the effects they've been adding to the game recently aren't very well done compared to other games that put out these kind of flashy things regularly. There's a lot of glowing, but the quality of the actual design is poor.

A lot of the glowing makes no sense when it comes to how it has been placed. It makes things look cluttered and over designed.

If they want to give the classes a colored aura, it would have been cooler to have an extra slot where an aura/glow could be equipped, instead of linking it to a motif and making its visuals unappealing. That way, having such a glow could be optional.

Alpheu5

Sometimes it feels like they view good will as a currency and build it up for a few months just to cash it out on moves like this.

SirGabenOfSteamia

flizomica wrote: »

One thing I did notice on PTS that is different from live is that equipping at least 5 of the class set style outfit styles unlocks the corresponding class set VFX, which only happens on live if you have 5 of the class set bonuses active. I don't think this was mentioned in the patch notes?

@ZOS_Kevin, @ZOS_GinaBruno - is this behavior intended? If it is, the change to lock styles to classes makes more sense given the added VFX was previously only associated with the set bonuses, which is already class-locked. Personally I would rather have no VFX associated with the style and also not lock the styles to classes, i.e. the same behavior as in the preview on live.





The first image shows my character triggering the VFX on PTS by equipping enough of the outfit styles, and the second image shows the VFX disappearing after I remove some of the outfit styles.

An easy solution here would be to add two separate styles then: one with VFX and one without. The Hungering Void style from Vateshran Hollows is visually the same as the Ancestral Reach motif weapons except with a void type voriplasm VFX over it, but both are different styles. They are both acquirable from the Reach, just as both of these should be acquirable from the Infinite Archive.

Pelanora

I'm the eye of the queen killing high elves who work for the queen when I'm questing in another zone..... and that's OK but i can't be allowed to wear another classes clothes.

Yeaaaaa so that makes no sense. Why add new rules? So very new to eso? What's the rationale?

colossalvoids

So it was all about VFX, but won't it be more logical having a dedicated collected VFX tab whilst having styles as previously?

Almost no one uses full style to begin with to have those VFX bound to some certain combination.

FluffyBird

AScarlato wrote: »

FluffyBird wrote: »

BahometZ wrote: »

I can see people are upset, but I think time and perspective will enable people to move beyond grief and into acceptance. Everything will be okay.

Move beyond grief into acceptance of other games, sure.

Welp if not having access to one set of class motifs out of 100s available is too much for you that you need to leave, I can't say you appear to be that into the game to begin with. Else this is just idle threats common on forums.

Threats? Pfff. Can't threat someone who doesn't care in the first place.

One thing would not be enough, not something like this, for sure. It's one thing. Then one more. And another one. I just hate to see that ZOS keeps making those weird small decisions that for me already piled up to the point of... ummm... let's call it an indefinite break.

tomofhyrule

flizomica wrote: »

One thing I did notice on PTS that is different from live is that equipping at least 5 of the class set style outfit styles unlocks the corresponding class set VFX, which only happens on live if you have 5 of the class set bonuses active. I don't think this was mentioned in the patch notes?

ZOS_Kevin, ZOS_GinaBruno - is this behavior intended? If it is, the change to lock styles to classes makes more sense given the added VFX was previously only associated with the set bonuses, which is already class-locked. Personally I would rather have no VFX associated with the style and also not lock the styles to classes, i.e. the same behavior as in the preview on live.


The first image shows my character triggering the VFX on PTS by equipping enough of the outfit styles, and the second image shows the VFX disappearing after I remove some of the outfit styles.

wat.

Just checked myself, and ...yeah. Notably, this is not the behavior of the items on Live currently
On Live:

On PTS:


I guess that could explain why the pieces are now class-exclusive, but that just raises the question of why that's like that in the first place.

Why the change? No other outfit style in the game brings its set VFX with it in the outfit system - we don't have to see the floating pearls on characters who choose to wear 5 pieces of Syrabanic Marine heavy, even though the heavy version of that armor is only used for the Pearlescent Ward set. But it's understood that the VFX of the set are tied to the set itself, and the visual look of the items is an outfit that can be glamoured on to any other set. Yes, there are some weapon styles and arms packs that have VFX included, but never an armor set. But if I want to include VFX in an outfit, I'll just make sure that set is one of the ones I'm wearing.

It seems like the only reason this was done was so we could glamour our characters to... use the class set styles and the glow, but not actually wear the set? Again, why?

That did make me test one other thing: the VFX from the set is still also attached to the set itself on PTS. Here's the same character wearing Basalt, but glamouring it his normal outfit, and the VFX are still there:


I'm sorry, but there is no nicer way to say this: changing the behavior of this set from Live to PTS to 1) include the VFX and 2) make it exclusive is is such a monumentally incompetent decision that fundamentally does not understand why the fashion/RP/screenshot community uses the Outfit system.

If we want to wear one of our class sets, we'll wear a class set. I can get the glowiness from that. But most of the fashion community tries to make their fashion choices based on how they want their character to look, which includes having no VFX when it is not warranted. Nobody wants e.g. the Soulcleaver set as a glamour option because they can't get enough of the permanent red glow while using Grim Focus and wants that glow to cover their body. (Ok fine, I'm sure there is at least one person who does, but for the vast majority of the people who are salty about this change, they want the NB pieces because they are simple, understated, and unique and can be used in other outfits to achieve looks that can't be gotten otherwise).
Incidentally, this is also a major reason that a lot of people are very salty about the Grim Focus changes from the last patch, because the permanent glow is changing the visuals of their character. I've taken to unslotting that skill outside of content because it is not what I intend for my character to look like.

Again, this has to have been a deliberate decision to make these the only example in the game of styles which bring the associated set VFX, thereby restricting them to the respective class. Can the dev responsible for this change please explain why this decision was made, counter to all other sets? Why are visuals being forced on our characters this late in the game?

Again, if you want to keep this behavior of included VFX on the weapons and keep them exclusive, I don't understand it but that's not a huge deal. But the armor pieces all have unique looks and should not act differently than they do on live. People have been asking about these styles since the Infinite Archive dropped, we've seen them in the Collectables menu, and now to throw this curveball like this is... an odd choice, to say the least.

Major_Toughness

Have no qualms with it.

A lot of focus is on one item, the Soulcleaver Mask. Just wait until they release a similar motif in future for everyone, which will undoubtedly happen.

I understand the Alliance outfits are not bound to the alliance you are on but that similarly makes no sense.

Why should an EP DK be able to wear AD styles and NB styles which contain the logos for such?

Coincidentally I wanted to use the Necromancer mask on my Nightblade, however I can't.

KlauthWarthog

Oh great, another pointless VFX layer to clutter the screen and conflict with the outfit color choices.
Are they going to add the VFX for the Maw weapons to the Dro-m'Athra weapon styles out of the blue as well?
The visual styling in this game is quickly devolving into that of a generic flashy eastern MMO.

essi2

This limitation is nonsensical and entirely antithetical to the point of the Outfit System in the first place.

Please don't let it go live with this limitation.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin

Tensar

Also, that specific costume is one costume for all three alliances. And we even may see our character wearing the 'wrong' one in Battlegrounds when it 'changes' your alliance. We don't have any "your character cannot use this" since it just colors the costume differently - still the same, but a different color. Even the face markings you get for the "Glory of the [Alliance]" are unlocked for everyone, so all of my characters can wear red face paint and eyes despite fighting for the wrong alliances.

Yes and that's a problem, that's nice to see them changing their mind with being more coherent with the ingame universe.

lunaslide

Inari Telvanni wrote: »

"Style Pages for Class Sets are now available in the Infinite Archive to collect. Style Pages are curated and will drop for your class first. Other Style Pages will drop after a set is complete. All pages are usable, but you will not be able to outfit your character in class styles other than your current class."

So. What exactly is the point of the style page, then? With every other page, be that style page or motif page, you can wear whatever you please regardless of class, race or equipment.
Why is this the exception? What is there to gain from this? The main reason most people have been looking forward to the class sets as style pages is, primarily, the nightblade mask. And most people can't access that because they need to be a nightblade to equip it, exactly like the armor piece?

This goes against the idea of style/motif pages to begin with.

They've ruined class identity, so now you get to exclusively look like your own class style while still equipping all the same gear no matter the class.

Alpheu5

Tensar wrote: »

Also, that specific costume is one costume for all three alliances. And we even may see our character wearing the 'wrong' one in Battlegrounds when it 'changes' your alliance. We don't have any "your character cannot use this" since it just colors the costume differently - still the same, but a different color. Even the face markings you get for the "Glory of the [Alliance]" are unlocked for everyone, so all of my characters can wear red face paint and eyes despite fighting for the wrong alliances.

Yes and that's a problem, that's nice to see them changing their mind with being more coherent with the ingame universe.

A Templar isn't going to keel over and die if they have a Warden emblem on their jacket the same way guards won't arrest me because I'm wearing a Black Hand robe.

AScarlato

FluffyBird wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

FluffyBird wrote: »

BahometZ wrote: »

I can see people are upset, but I think time and perspective will enable people to move beyond grief and into acceptance. Everything will be okay.

Move beyond grief into acceptance of other games, sure.

Welp if not having access to one set of class motifs out of 100s available is too much for you that you need to leave, I can't say you appear to be that into the game to begin with. Else this is just idle threats common on forums.

Threats? Pfff. Can't threat someone who doesn't care in the first place.

One thing would not be enough, not something like this, for sure. It's one thing. Then one more. And another one. I just hate to see that ZOS keeps making those weird small decisions that for me already piled up to the point of... ummm... let's call it an indefinite break.

Well bye then. Good luck finding another mmo with no restrictions whatsoever.

ArchangelIsraphel

I just did some testing of the visual effects and motifs. I'm not impressed.

I'm not trying to "bash" them, this is my honest feedback about the animations- many of them look like the wavy colored steam that comes off of cartoon characters when it is being implied that they have body odor, or smell bad. Especially since the animation is concentrated around the arms/shoulders/armpits.

They don't compliment the motifs very well.

These animations really need to be optional. As someone else said, the easiest way would be to have two different versions of the motif- one with the animation, and one without. Maybe the one with the animation could be the class specific one, while allowing the non-animated one to be worn by all characters regardless of class.

There's quite a few different motifs with alternate versions, so this seems like a very reasonable request to ask of the team before these get released.

(I also wish the Templar VFX could be changed to something that's more like, floating motes of light, or sparks of light, rather than an overbearing yellow glow with wavy lines. Im a Templar, not a flashlight.)

Vulkunne

If the armor is glowing I will not use it. Just like now.

LunaFlora

why not just make vfx optional like many people already want?

and make it so it's only possible to get the vfx when your character is the style's class?

i really hope it'll get changed before update 41's release.
we want to use all of the outfit styles please

FluffyBird

AScarlato wrote: »

FluffyBird wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

FluffyBird wrote: »

BahometZ wrote: »

I can see people are upset, but I think time and perspective will enable people to move beyond grief and into acceptance. Everything will be okay.

Move beyond grief into acceptance of other games, sure.

Welp if not having access to one set of class motifs out of 100s available is too much for you that you need to leave, I can't say you appear to be that into the game to begin with. Else this is just idle threats common on forums.

Threats? Pfff. Can't threat someone who doesn't care in the first place.

One thing would not be enough, not something like this, for sure. It's one thing. Then one more. And another one. I just hate to see that ZOS keeps making those weird small decisions that for me already piled up to the point of... ummm... let's call it an indefinite break.

Well bye then. Good luck finding another mmo with no restrictions whatsoever.

May enemy spells always fly over your head. Just like my point did.

Jaimeh

I'm probably in the minority here, but I don't think this is the end of the world. I play with all my alts, so if I like the styles I'll get to use them on a character (and I like for my characters to have distinct styles). I think it's fun for classes to have unique flairs and effects, the only thing I would ask for is for any effects to be toggled on/off, so that people who have visual sensitivity can opt out.

Araneae6537

I was disappointed at first because I would like to use the nightblade helm style, but there are lots of motifs and styles that I do like, so I just hope the pages that drop are tradeable, and I’ll go for the new Apocrypha furnishing plans.

To me, classes are the starting point for building your character and I like for them to have different strengths to be played in different ways, but it’s not a group or faction. It makes sense to have set abilities that work with certain class skills, but not styles. That makes no sense to me. But I don’t like most armor set FX anyway, so I feel less like I’m missing out.

(Edit: typo)

Quethrosar

does the sorcerer set give the purple glow just by using styles? otherwise no thanks .

Alp

Man this really ruined my excitement for these new motifs. Any reasoning behind locking certain styles to certain archetypes went out the window the day the wedding dress costume went on sale. Why suddenly bother now?

Ulvich

I went to the main ESO site this morning to pre-purchase Gold Road and figured I would drop by here first. Good thing I did. After reading this I think I'll hold off for a while. With any luck they will pay attention and decide that this is a bad idea, and not at all popular with the masses.
I am having a real hard time in continuing my support for this game when they decide to make ridiculous changes such as this.
Just leave it alone, already.

Redtrek524

Wow a real step backwards on the part of ZOS. Between the middling content addittions, lack of requested QoL improvements and now this...I guess I wont be renewing my plus subscription.