So is there going to be an official ZOS comment on 100m Essence Of Detection potions change?

Bushido2513

Mayrael wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

As of latest patch notes are we all good now?

Seems fine, but I correctly guessed the reason for this change.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7858538/#Comment_7858538

So why didn't anyone bothered to confirm "Yes, that's it, we're working on a solution, thank you for your patience"?

I mean ZOS is terrible at communication, like legit terrible at it. Perhaps they just wanted to see how everyone would react.

I remember Realgodzilla and Nycegaming detailing stories of trying to reach out to ZOS for a simple dialogue and basically getting the run around and eventually just ghosted. These were guys that had great attitude in their content, cared about the game, and were really decent about their requests.

After seeing that and all the other things we've seen things like this aren't surprising at all to me.

I'm just glad it worked out to a way that feels somewhat more acceptable to you and others.

Tommy_The_Gun

Now it is "only" 43 meters

It is still kinda funny tbh. Not even sad, just um funny ! At this point it is a Meme lol.

It is more or less the range of Snipe in PvP (or Focused Aim morph in PvE). I guess changing it back from 100 will maybe make Cyro experience playable. If you want to do some solo PvE questing then maybe. But for IC it is way too much. It will be impossible to sneak around as you will be detected through walls & obstacles not even knowing what (or who) detected you. And the mobs you are sneaking by will just agro you immediately.

The biggest issue I find when it comes to detection potions is that people "on the receiving end" have no clue who is using them. It is all just guessing game. And what If people will be detected if there is no one around ? It will get even worse.

The only way to move around unnoticed will be to roll a NB or Vamp (or NB Vamp). I thought that this is not the goal tbh. To shoe-horn everyone who wants to sneak around to use invisibility / invisibility potions. Because that is what is going to happen. Crouch stealth will be too easy to counter and won't be an alternative to invisibly.

EramTheLiar

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

It is more or less the range of Snipe in PvP (or Focused Aim morph in PvE). I guess changing it back from 100 will maybe make Cyro experience playable. If you want to do some solo PvE questing then maybe. But for IC it is way too much. It will be impossible to sneak around as you will be detected through walls & obstacles not even knowing what (or who) detected you. And the mobs you are sneaking by will just agro you immediately.

Maybe I am completely misunderstanding the patch notes, but it seemed to me like the whole point the fix was so that only the person who detects the stealthed character sees the stealthed characters - so in your example above, the person detecting the stealthed character would see and the mobs would not.

TechMaybeHic

They made cloak a guarantee then; right? And crouch less so? Seems fair if that's the case.

Amerises

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

They made cloak a guarantee then; right? And crouch less so? Seems fair if that's the case.

TL;DR what was the fix to invis? Do detect pots and abilities no longer pull you out of invis?

Jamie_Aubrey

Me who chugs these downs anytime a NB is near seeing these changes

Danse_Mayhem

This is a great change.

It’s a sacrifice to need to run detect pots instead of other potions just to be able to have a chance against 1 out of 6 classes, and chasing someone down whilst spamming inner light / camo hunter is not a viable counter.

[snip]

Until you disengage and just accept they got away, for a free escape or for them to come and one shot you - Or the group with some cheesy bomber build.

No thanks. Keep this change. Add a longer duration too. [snip]

[edited for baiting]

Mayrael

Amerises wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

They made cloak a guarantee then; right? And crouch less so? Seems fair if that's the case.

TL;DR what was the fix to invis? Do detect pots and abilities no longer pull you out of invis?

The function of detection potions remains unchanged when it comes to cloak/invisibility (including range, as detection potions still have about a 20m range when detecting INVISIBLE targets).

The fix was related to the fact that currently on live servers, it is possible to see an invisible target (without going into too much detail) by standing very close to it and doing absolutely nothing. This means that you can just stand there and see an "invisible" player, and this has been fixed, so it will no longer be possible.

Meanwhile, stealth (i.e., the standard "crouch" available to everyone) can now be broken from a distance almost twice as far as on live servers.

TLDR;
Invisibility was not nerfed, it received a working fix.
Stealth was nerfed because detection potions now detect crouching targets from 43 meters away.

Mayrael

Jamie_Aubrey wrote: »

Me who chugs these downs anytime a NB is near seeing these changes

Danse_Mayhem wrote: »

This is a great change.

It’s a sacrifice to need to run detect pots instead of other potions just to be able to have a chance against 1 out of 6 classes, and chasing someone down whilst spamming inner light / camo hunter is not a viable counter.

[snip]

Until you disengage and just accept they got away, for a free escape or for them to come and one shot you - Or the group with some cheesy bomber build.

No thanks. Keep this change. Add a longer duration too. [snip]

I'm sorry to spoil your fun (actually, I'm not sorry at all), but you were the ones nerfed, not NB. Read what I wrote above.

[edited to remove quote]

SuddenESO

It seems now that it was intentional, newest pts patch notes have lowered the range to 43.5m

Every class has got Something that is overpowered and unfair to everyone else that isn't currently using that class, that's how it should be otherwise everyone would use the same class all the time.

It's about learning how to counteract the advantage that certain classes have. This change realistically makes NB useless. Majority of people playing NB in pvp are utilizing some kind of stealth.

Time to cave in 😔

Dragon knights online
Let's go
I will be canceling my ESO plus if this goes live.

ShadowProc

The_Lex wrote: »

In every TES game since Morrowind, the Nightblade class is uniquely designed to play with cloak and shadow:

Morrowind Nightblade Class
In-game Description: Nightblades are spellcasters who use their magics to enhance mobility, concealment, and stealthy close combat. They have a sinister reputation, since many nightblades are thieves, enforcers, assassins, or covert agents.

Oblivion Nightblade Class
In-game description: Spell and shadow are their friends. By darkness they move with haste, casting magic to benefit their circumstances.

ESO Nightblade Class Description (on the official website)
Attack from the shadows, drain your foes' health, and vanish into the void with the Nightblade Class. The shadows truly are your greatest weapon as you wield abilities that deal devastating damage at any range and siphon your victim's lifeforce to your allies.

Nothing in these descriptions point toward a Nightblade playing a "brawler style." In fact, brawling is antithetical to the descriptions themselves. But, I'm good with people playing how they want. I am, however, against players who refuse to use the detection skills (class and guild skills) which are designed to combat the core nightblade play style but would, instead, have the historical style nerfed.

LMAO. Awesome find.

"Attack from the shadows.. .." That's the ball game folks. No further argument needed.

Unless they change it to Attack from the shadows and then see how far you can make it away before dying!!!!

ShadowProc

Danse_Mayhem wrote: »

This is a great change.

It’s a sacrifice to need to run detect pots instead of other potions just to be able to have a chance against 1 out of 6 classes, and chasing someone down whilst spamming inner light / camo hunter is not a viable counter.

[snip]

Until you disengage and just accept they got away, for a free escape or for them to come and one shot you - Or the group with some cheesy bomber build.

No thanks. Keep this change. Add a longer duration too. [snip]

[edited for baiting]

I am confused how being unable to kill someone is not a counter? Counters are for defense. The nb escaping is not the nb winning. The nb failed. You won the engagement.

Bushido2513

ShadowProc wrote: »

I am confused how being unable to kill someone is not a counter? Counters are for defense. The nb escaping is not the nb winning. The nb failed. You won the engagement.

Actually there are really no winners in an engagement like that. Successfully defending yourself is only that. You're actually still just vulnerable to another assault with only having gained a bit of situational awareness which is valuable though your opponent is free to now compensate for that and reengage at will.

At the very least it's a reset, at most one of you can exploit any new found awareness upon reengagement though NB likely gets initiative.

This can result in fights that are anywhere from quick and dirty to boring and tedious.

Mayrael

Bushido2513 wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

I am confused how being unable to kill someone is not a counter? Counters are for defense. The nb escaping is not the nb winning. The nb failed. You won the engagement.

Actually there are really no winners in an engagement like that. Successfully defending yourself is only that. You're actually still just vulnerable to another assault with only having gained a bit of situational awareness which is valuable though your opponent is free to now compensate for that and reengage at will.

At the very least it's a reset, at most one of you can exploit any new found awareness upon reengagement though NB likely gets initiative.

This can result in fights that are anywhere from quick and dirty to boring and tedious.

You forget that stealth is not limited to NBs, same as LoS, blocking etc. etc. after NB attack you can also go stealth and try to hunt him, if he can be patient then why can't you?

I for example love to get "ganked", because most of the time NB's are failing miserably at it, and one detection potion used at right time leaves them dead. But this requires tactics, skill, build and knowledge, it's not "I win button" like many would like it to be. Same as you just don't hop on random DK or sorc and hope you will kill him by just pressing random skills.

Lucifer9th

They need to buff anti-invisible skills, it's not a reliable counter
For exemple, cloak (4050 mana) costs less than magelight (5130 mana),
we have to lose 1 skill slot, 1 GCD every 4 seconds and a excessive amount of mana to counter 1 skill without talk about
the little radius which can be avoided by several way as speed, roll dodge, mist form, los, ...

And when you launch a targeting skill to someone and if he go invisible just before the impact, he takes no damage, it's an invisible skill or enter the 4th dimension skill

EramTheLiar

Lucifer9th wrote: »

They need to buff anti-invisible skills, it's not a reliable counter
For exemple, cloak (4050 mana) costs less than magelight (5130 mana),
we have to lose 1 skill slot, 1 GCD every 4 seconds and a excessive amount of mana to counter 1 skill without talk about
the little radius which can be avoided by several way as speed, roll dodge, mist form, los, ...

And when you launch a targeting skill to someone and if he go invisible just before the impact, he takes no damage, it's an invisible skill or enter the 4th dimension skill

I agree with this - the character skill should have a greater range than the potions. The character skill is useful for the passive crit boost but the active effect is meh compared to the potions (although the skill is spammable, I think the detect potions are not?) If it were me I'd switch the radius of the character skills (magelight/hunter) with the potions.

DrNukenstein

The detect skills are very reliable if you use them right.

You have to use them preemptively. A good strategy is to do a 2 skill combo, detect, clean up. It works like 90% of the time. The other 10% of the time the cloak blade is smart enough to cloak at the first sign of heat. If that happens, remember them and go in with your detect up. If they cloak before they take any heat, it's because they really can't take any heat and they know it.

Note: This is a melee strategy. For ranged your options are to make yourself ungankable with mobility and aoe cc (really, just streak every 4 seconds, it's that easy to make yourself a near impossible target), or use those stupid potions.

Mayrael

Lucifer9th wrote: »

They need to buff anti-invisible skills, it's not a reliable counter
For exemple, cloak (4050 mana) costs less than magelight (5130 mana),
we have to lose 1 skill slot, 1 GCD every 4 seconds and a excessive amount of mana to counter 1 skill without talk about
the little radius which can be avoided by several way as speed, roll dodge, mist form, los, ...

And when you launch a targeting skill to someone and if he go invisible just before the impact, he takes no damage, it's an invisible skill or enter the 4th dimension skill

Counters to invisibility fulfill their purpose in the hands of someone who knows how to use them. They're not supposed to be skills that suddenly completely remove the ability to use invisibility, no matter what, because what would be the point of invisibility if anyone could just turn it off with a single button press?

Counters are supposed to be more expensive because you have to use them at the right moment and not spam them non-stop. If you don't understand this, then you still have a lot to learn.

Bushido2513

Mayrael wrote: »

You forget that stealth is not limited to NBs, same as LoS, blocking etc. etc. after NB attack you can also go stealth and try to hunt him, if he can be patient then why can't you?

I for example love to get "ganked", because most of the time NB's are failing miserably at it, and one detection potion used at right time leaves them dead. But this requires tactics, skill, build and knowledge, it's not "I win button" like many would like it to be. Same as you just don't hop on random DK or sorc and hope you will kill him by just pressing random skills.

Just depends on the build and style of the nightblade. There are NBS that make me feel like wow we just had a great fight and there are those that just don't do the class justice and really just don't want to die but can't kill and just want to have fun feeling relevant to the game. I don't blame any player for playing the game they paid for but cloak is one of those things that can easily get annoying depending on who's using it.

In terms of one button fight resets it's best in slot. I'm not saying op at all, just saying that it's the easiest one a player can pick up and use to disengage repeatedly on demand.

Mayrael

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

You forget that stealth is not limited to NBs, same as LoS, blocking etc. etc. after NB attack you can also go stealth and try to hunt him, if he can be patient then why can't you?

I for example love to get "ganked", because most of the time NB's are failing miserably at it, and one detection potion used at right time leaves them dead. But this requires tactics, skill, build and knowledge, it's not "I win button" like many would like it to be. Same as you just don't hop on random DK or sorc and hope you will kill him by just pressing random skills.

Just depends on the build and style of the nightblade. There are NBS that make me feel like wow we just had a great fight and there are those that just don't do the class justice and really just don't want to die but can't kill and just want to have fun feeling relevant to the game. I don't blame any player for playing the game they paid for but cloak is one of those things that can easily get annoying depending on who's using it.

In terms of one button fight resets it's best in slot. I'm not saying op at all, just saying that it's the easiest one a player can pick up and use to disengage repeatedly on demand.

First part can be said about any class and its pretty common among every other class to.

About second part. Yes when an opponent of a NB doesn't know how or doesn't want to use cloak counter, no if NB fights someone who knows how to counter cloak.

I have around 50000 kills (so sample pool is pretty good) on my main according to addon, NBs are my most killed class, if cloak would be the best disengage tool in the game this stat would look different, because despite my experience I wouldn't be able to kill them so efficently (you know the best tool should save them from pretty mediocre player).

And since I am pretty average player, if I can kill NB's using counters we have in the game, anyone can do this.

DrNukenstein

Like I get it about ranged blades. Right now there really isn't much counterplay to their cloaking since they attack from outside detection or PBOAE ranges. The only way to get them out of stealth is ground cast flair or ranged aoe which is way less reliable.

Against melee though it is so easy to deny cloak. It really is. They'll be attacking you within range of PBAOE's and detect skills. It's most definitely not a one button reset in melee since for it to have a chance at doing what you need it to do you have to spend resources on making distance (shade, RAT, roll). A successful cloak in close quarters against a competent player easily costs 7k mag and 3k stamina. If a melee nightblade is going in and out of cloak freely, it's probably a build problem for the other player. No AOE or detect on the bars.

Bushido2513

Mayrael wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

You forget that stealth is not limited to NBs, same as LoS, blocking etc. etc. after NB attack you can also go stealth and try to hunt him, if he can be patient then why can't you?

I for example love to get "ganked", because most of the time NB's are failing miserably at it, and one detection potion used at right time leaves them dead. But this requires tactics, skill, build and knowledge, it's not "I win button" like many would like it to be. Same as you just don't hop on random DK or sorc and hope you will kill him by just pressing random skills.

Just depends on the build and style of the nightblade. There are NBS that make me feel like wow we just had a great fight and there are those that just don't do the class justice and really just don't want to die but can't kill and just want to have fun feeling relevant to the game. I don't blame any player for playing the game they paid for but cloak is one of those things that can easily get annoying depending on who's using it.

In terms of one button fight resets it's best in slot. I'm not saying op at all, just saying that it's the easiest one a player can pick up and use to disengage repeatedly on demand.

First part can be said about any class and its pretty common among every other class to.

About second part. Yes when an opponent of a NB doesn't know how or doesn't want to use cloak counter, no if NB fights someone who knows how to counter cloak.

I have around 50000 kills (so sample pool is pretty good) on my main according to addon, NBs are my most killed class, if cloak would be the best disengage tool in the game this stat would look different, because despite my experience I wouldn't be able to kill them so efficently (you know the best tool should save them from pretty mediocre player).

And since I am pretty average player, if I can kill NB's using counters we have in the game, anyone can do this.

Well honestly as with most things in this game the number isn't always reflective of the whole picture.

You are also correct, any class can be annoying when they lean on their respective kit and the right build.

Also you're correct in that I'm speaking more of people that don't handle NB cloak as well. I handle it fine but I think when you combine how many players crutch on it and how many players don't handle it well you end up with an annoying recipe if nothing else simply because people like to see targets.


I'm not saying it isn't an l2p issue but more so pointing out the easy potential to create a more than average number of annoying situations over time.

That being said I believe it's an accumulation issue over time because currently dk and to some degree Warden are pretty high up there on the annoying meter.

Bushido2513

[snip]

Actually I always said I didn't care if the change happened or not just that I was interested in progression.

Also in both threads when it was found out that the change wasn't bad at all I asked if everyone was cool with that and was happy for one person who I knew didn't want this change.

You're probably thinking I speak for me when I point out the frustrations of others but that's incorrect

I play NB and have no problem with the class.

[removed quote]

Mayrael

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

You forget that stealth is not limited to NBs, same as LoS, blocking etc. etc. after NB attack you can also go stealth and try to hunt him, if he can be patient then why can't you?

I for example love to get "ganked", because most of the time NB's are failing miserably at it, and one detection potion used at right time leaves them dead. But this requires tactics, skill, build and knowledge, it's not "I win button" like many would like it to be. Same as you just don't hop on random DK or sorc and hope you will kill him by just pressing random skills.

Just depends on the build and style of the nightblade. There are NBS that make me feel like wow we just had a great fight and there are those that just don't do the class justice and really just don't want to die but can't kill and just want to have fun feeling relevant to the game. I don't blame any player for playing the game they paid for but cloak is one of those things that can easily get annoying depending on who's using it.

In terms of one button fight resets it's best in slot. I'm not saying op at all, just saying that it's the easiest one a player can pick up and use to disengage repeatedly on demand.

First part can be said about any class and its pretty common among every other class to.

About second part. Yes when an opponent of a NB doesn't know how or doesn't want to use cloak counter, no if NB fights someone who knows how to counter cloak.

I have around 50000 kills (so sample pool is pretty good) on my main according to addon, NBs are my most killed class, if cloak would be the best disengage tool in the game this stat would look different, because despite my experience I wouldn't be able to kill them so efficently (you know the best tool should save them from pretty mediocre player).

And since I am pretty average player, if I can kill NB's using counters we have in the game, anyone can do this.

Well honestly as with most things in this game the number isn't always reflective of the whole picture.

You are also correct, any class can be annoying when they lean on their respective kit and the right build.

Also you're correct in that I'm speaking more of people that don't handle NB cloak as well. I handle it fine but I think when you combine how many players crutch on it and how many players don't handle it well you end up with an annoying recipe if nothing else simply because people like to see targets.


I'm not saying it isn't an l2p issue but more so pointing out the easy potential to create a more than average number of annoying situations over time.

That being said I believe it's an accumulation issue over time because currently dk and to some degree Warden are pretty high up there on the annoying meter.

You're right that numbers are not always a good way to describe reality, but in most cases they work well and certainly better than feelings or emotions, which can be extremely subjective.

Indeed, you're also right that for beginners, fighting against NBs can be quite a difficult experience, but for a beginner in PvP, many things can be attributed to this, such as tank/heal bots, fleeing players, zergs, small scalers, very experienced players who seem invincible but can kill a new player in a few seconds, the mount simulator in Cyrodiil, losing Tel Var in IC, etc. The disappearing NB is just one of those annoying aspects of PvP that, in my opinion, you have to get used to, because if we got rid of all of it, PvP would become very boring and predictable, and it's precisely the chaos in PvP that attracts us so strongly to it. The same map has been my home for 9 years of playing, and I never got bored of it.

Bushido2513

Mayrael wrote: »

You're right that numbers are not always a good way to describe reality, but in most cases they work well and certainly better than feelings or emotions, which can be extremely subjective.

You're right I should have quantified the statement by saying that I took it that we were discussing 1v1 encounters and I (possibly incorrectly) believed that your stats wouldn't break it down by that category. I'm always careful about saying I got a kill in this game because there's a few ways to get a kill that wouldn't require much involvement for the player but that would still count according to the game engine final blow, bombing, execute mechanics, game mode, group vs solo, etc. Not saying I do or don't know how you got all the kills but you see my point of why I believe just a single number can be misleading when not quantified.

Mayrael wrote: »

Indeed, you're also right that for beginners, fighting against NBs can be quite a difficult experience, but for a beginner in PvP, many things can be attributed to this, such as tank/heal bots, fleeing players, zergs, small scalers, very experienced players who seem invincible but can kill a new player in a few seconds, the mount simulator in Cyrodiil, losing Tel Var in IC, etc. The disappearing NB is just one of those annoying aspects of PvP that, in my opinion, you have to get used to, because if we got rid of all of it, PvP would become very boring and predictable, and it's precisely the chaos in PvP that attracts us so strongly to it. The same map has been my home for 9 years of playing, and I never got bored of it.

So what I go back to is the psychology of players. I think that all the things you listed can definitely be frustrating but I think basic psychology causes some to equate anything that becomes a target you can't hit as cowardice. It also makes some feel like they have weapons they can't even get to use because they lose targets.

Now I do agree they should switch to a detect pot or pop a detect skill but I think some players still recall the times when those didn't work as well. They've been buffed since then but I think that's still kicking in for some people and it might also feel contrary to when you fight all the other classes and you can just go in and give it all you got and win or lose know that at least you can see them and try your best even if it ends in death.

Again that's no excuse for not learning how the game works and getting better. I just feel like maybe that's why cloak gets a little more hate than other things you've listed above.

As a side note sometimes I play a tank vs being an escapist and I do feel like people seem to be happier when they can sit and try to bash my brains out for a bit or even chase me vs if I just disappear.

Mayrael

Of course, you're right that a small sample could easily lead to distorting the overall trend. That's why I provided the total number of kills on my character, because while the game and addon count kills differently, with a fairly large sample size, statistics start to work and show the overall trend.

As for what is more or less annoying, it's obviously an individual matter. I've seen entire zones in Cyrodiil get angry at one player who could tank dozens of people, and people were really mad. It was so annoying that everyone knew those players by their username, and everyone knew it was pointless to even attack them because it was a waste of time, and entire groups would ignore them.

I've seen similar things with certain sorcerers who used the tactic of dropping a decoy and fleeing (which most small scale groups do), which allowed them to catch less experienced players in the group, and if the entire group chased such a sorcerer, they would run as fast as they could. After a while, everyone knew that it was pointless to engage with certain sorcerers because if they felt threatened, they would run like the devil him self would chase them, and only fight when they felt they could win - which I don't criticize, because it's a very smart tactic to know when to fight and when to withdraw - the problem is that for some players fighting against them was a frustrating experience - when they almost have their target but he escapes.

So, yes, the Nightblade also fits into the theme of running away when you see that you can't win, which actually leads us to the point where we can say that regardless of whether it's using LoS, speed, or invisibility, all of these things frustrate those who believe that no one has the right to avoid being killed in the game. It seems to me (and this is only my opinion, not supported by any hard evidence) that the most frustrated people by running away from combat are in a group of players who play classes with less mobility because they don't have such an "easy" escape route (which is a false assumption, with the current state of the game, everyone can run at full speed, be invisible or teleport), and they believe that only an "honorable" fight to the death is the only right way, and when someone simply outsmarts them, they get angry because they feel cheated.

BlueRaven

Lucifer9th wrote: »

They need to buff anti-invisible skills, it's not a reliable counter
For exemple, cloak (4050 mana) costs less than magelight (5130 mana),
we have to lose 1 skill slot, 1 GCD every 4 seconds and a excessive amount of mana to counter 1 skill without talk about
the little radius which can be avoided by several way as speed, roll dodge, mist form, los, ...

And when you launch a targeting skill to someone and if he go invisible just before the impact, he takes no damage, it's an invisible skill or enter the 4th dimension skill

Cloak also takes up a skill slot. And magelight gives buffs beyond seeing invisible things.

When not being activated, the cloak skill and the one morph that continues to allow invisibility, does nothing for the user if slotted and not utilized.
Magelight continues to give buffs as long as it’s on the bar. No mana required.

Want the two to cost the same? Magelight would need a nerf.

Lucifer9th

Mayrael wrote: »

Counters to invisibility fulfill their purpose in the hands of someone who knows how to use them. They're not supposed to be skills that suddenly completely remove the ability to use invisibility, no matter what, because what would be the point of invisibility if anyone could just turn it off with a single button press?

Counters are supposed to be more expensive because you have to use them at the right moment and not spam them non-stop. If you don't understand this, then you still have a lot to learn.

I did not talk about using non stop, you have to use every 4 sec during the counter attack on a cloak nb, 4 sec is quite few to kill when roll dodge, healthy offering exists and you have to keep be as possible at close melee range with him,

You talk about counter to be more expensive, I don't think counter of streak are more expensive, they put ramping cost which was fair

BlueRaven wrote: »

Cloak also takes up a skill slot. And magelight gives buffs beyond seeing invisible things.

When not being activated, the cloak skill and the one morph that continues to allow invisibility, does nothing for the user if slotted and not utilized.
Magelight continues to give buffs as long as it’s on the bar. No mana required.

Want the two to cost the same? Magelight would need a nerf.

Cloak gives you major resolve when casted (you don't have to slot a skill which gives you major resolve which means 1 slot bonus), next attack crit when casted and 3% max health when slotted (and it's part of your gameplay)
magelight gives you major prophecy on 1 bar when slotted and not when casted so you can't benefit of more crit rate on both bar just with it and imagine having to modify one skill of your build just to counter 1 gameplay when slots are important

Mayrael

Lucifer9th wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Counters to invisibility fulfill their purpose in the hands of someone who knows how to use them. They're not supposed to be skills that suddenly completely remove the ability to use invisibility, no matter what, because what would be the point of invisibility if anyone could just turn it off with a single button press?

Counters are supposed to be more expensive because you have to use them at the right moment and not spam them non-stop. If you don't understand this, then you still have a lot to learn.

I did not talk about using non stop, you have to use every 4 sec during the counter attack on a cloak nb, 4 sec is quite few to kill when roll dodge, healthy offering exists and you have to keep be as possible at close melee range with him,

You talk about counter to be more expensive, I don't think counter of streak are more expensive, they put ramping cost which was fair

BlueRaven wrote: »

Cloak also takes up a skill slot. And magelight gives buffs beyond seeing invisible things.

When not being activated, the cloak skill and the one morph that continues to allow invisibility, does nothing for the user if slotted and not utilized.
Magelight continues to give buffs as long as it’s on the bar. No mana required.

Want the two to cost the same? Magelight would need a nerf.

Cloak gives you major resolve when casted (you don't have to slot a skill which gives you major resolve which means 1 slot bonus), next attack crit when casted and 3% max health when slotted (and it's part of your gameplay)
magelight gives you major prophecy on 1 bar when slotted and not when casted so you can't benefit of more crit rate on both bar just with it and imagine having to modify one skill of your build just to counter 1 gameplay when slots are important

Gapclosers take a slot to and have usage otside of only chasing sorcs, there was a time when each meele build had to have gapcloser on a bar not because of sorcs but because it was the best tool to move around the battlefield, nothing has changed but some people are not willing to place gapclosers on their bars because they preffer to have more buffs, and then complain about streaking sorc - they have the tools but refuse to use it.

Also streak works always, just to be precise here - it moves sorc from point A to B always and you can't counter it, you can just react to it, while cloak can be prevented or completly wasted you feel the difference?

JerBearESO

Any word on fixes for things such as NPCs, for no reason, and direct damage from status effects from DoTs pulling NB out of invisible? Did they fix this stuff or will it be another few years?