So is there going to be an official ZOS comment on 100m Essence Of Detection potions change?

Luede

ShadowProc wrote: »

There are numerous counters to cloak already.

BUT, a skilled nb can counter with dodge rolls, shade, shade, etc to get out of detect range and reenter cloak. THAT IS THE COUNTER PLAY.

no one dies. Counter and counter. That is perfect. That is the way it should be.

The players that are happy for this change want to be able to kill everything and feel the game should be designed that way. Well it shouldn't. There has to be counters for every class, not one size fits all. (Well maybe DK lol).

If you go with this change you are forcing all nbs to be brawlers. Well there are far better classes for brawler. I will dust off my dks and join the train.

maybe you should consider in your counter play essay that NBs now have a very strong class heal and don't need cloak at all.

the defense of NBs is now strongly gone through the roof

BlueRaven

Luede wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

There are numerous counters to cloak already.

BUT, a skilled nb can counter with dodge rolls, shade, shade, etc to get out of detect range and reenter cloak. THAT IS THE COUNTER PLAY.

no one dies. Counter and counter. That is perfect. That is the way it should be.

The players that are happy for this change want to be able to kill everything and feel the game should be designed that way. Well it shouldn't. There has to be counters for every class, not one size fits all. (Well maybe DK lol).

If you go with this change you are forcing all nbs to be brawlers. Well there are far better classes for brawler. I will dust off my dks and join the train.

maybe you should consider in your counter play essay that NBs now have a very strong class heal and don't need cloak at all.

the defense of NBs is now strongly gone through the roof

“A class does not need ability x because they have a (strong) class heal.”

What kind of argument is this?

Can we start cherry picking abilities for elimination from all of the classes, saying they don’t need them due to class heals?

SpacemanSpiff1

Luede wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

There are numerous counters to cloak already.

BUT, a skilled nb can counter with dodge rolls, shade, shade, etc to get out of detect range and reenter cloak. THAT IS THE COUNTER PLAY.

no one dies. Counter and counter. That is perfect. That is the way it should be.

The players that are happy for this change want to be able to kill everything and feel the game should be designed that way. Well it shouldn't. There has to be counters for every class, not one size fits all. (Well maybe DK lol).

If you go with this change you are forcing all nbs to be brawlers. Well there are far better classes for brawler. I will dust off my dks and join the train.

maybe you should consider in your counter play essay that NBs now have a very strong class heal and don't need cloak at all.

the defense of NBs is now strongly gone through the roof

nightblades arent the only class that can sneak.

the amount of people that refuse to counter stealth is through the roof.

Bushido2513

Mayrael wrote: »

There is a difference between testing balance improvements and making absurd changes. Following your line of reasoning, if we were to nerf DK to the ground so that it was the worst possible class in PvP, the MAJORITY of players would be satisfied (considering statistics and natural distribution) because those who play DK as their MAIN are a minority. Would that be good for the game because the MAJORITY is satisfied? What if we treated Sorc the same way instead of DK? Do you understand what I'm getting at? The majority of players are not a good indicator of what is right, because the majority of players will always want to grab the biggest piece of cake for themselves. That's why it's so important for the dev team to make balanced and thoughtful decisions. Changing the value of any skill by 500% would lead to terrible consequences. Imagine any skill suddenly having a range of 150-200 meters. That's absurd, not "testing."

It's possible I didn't explain that as well as I should have but I see where you're coming from and I'll explain further.

This game is in a not so great place when it comes to balance. So when you see me say something might be better I'm speaking in the context of the already absurd thing that is called balance within this game. I'm basically working with what ZOS has been giving me so I'm going using that benchmark when I say better for all players.

What you're talking about is a better for all players in the context of a game with much better balance and development support which we don't exactly have here.

If I was using your guidelines (which ZOS doesn't seem to care to) then yes I would be asking for a much different set of changes for this and many other imbalances in the game.

Mayrael wrote: »

That's why it's so important for the dev team to make balanced and thoughtful decisions.

They do and have been as it meets their agenda at the time and that's what I've been trying to get across to people.

You ca definitely talk about this game as if it's the game you want it to be or you can talk about the game that this game more so seems to be.

I can totally understand though how I see this as at least being some type of progress in this highly skewed thing they call game balance where you see it as just ludicrous

Bushido2513

Jaimeh wrote: »

Five pages in and still no official word... how difficult is it to say 'yes, intended' or 'no, not intended--looking into it'... Unless they are biding their time, so people buy the chapter first, and then confirm it, because this will obliterate a lot of peoples' playstyle, and they might understandably leave or take a break.

Five pages made up of the thoughts of less than 20 people in a subsection of a forum is probably like a grain of sand to ZOS when compared to their current goals for the entire player base.

Just trying to add some perspective as I've noticed a few people that seem to think the forums are a hotline to home base other than when a post is flagged that violates the rules and needs to be removed.

Mrtoobyy

I very rarely play my NB as I love ny Templar main too much. But hey lets be real, is this change even needed? 100m? I barely die to NB's from cloak as it is now. I mean won't one pot on one person be enough to reveal multiple inivisible units?

Bushido2513

ShadowProc wrote: »

There are numerous counters to cloak already.

BUT, a skilled nb can counter with dodge rolls, shade, shade, etc to get out of detect range and reenter cloak. THAT IS THE COUNTER PLAY.

no one dies. Counter and counter. That is perfect. That is the way it should be.

The players that are happy for this change want to be able to kill everything and feel the game should be designed that way. Well it shouldn't. There has to be counters for every class, not one size fits all. (Well maybe DK lol).

If you go with this change you are forcing all nbs to be brawlers. Well there are far better classes for brawler. I will dust off my dks and join the train.

I think you're correct in saying there are plenty of counters and this is somewhat fair gameplay however it has a tendency to get annoying in several scenarios.

I don't think everyone should be able to kill everyone in the game but you also have to look at the reasoning why you can't kill someone. Here are some reasons I can get into as to why I can't kill someone.

They are a superior player and can currently counter my offensive with theirs.
They speced into heals, faster movement speed, and know the terrain so chasing them won't work and I am also free to leave.
They are a tank.

You get the picture.

But when you get into the territory of a fight being reset because someone fired of a skill there becomes a chance to create annoying reasons or fight scenarios where nobody dies and time is just sort of wasted.

I've always respected and been ok with a nb that just comes out of stealth and kills me quick or fairly quick. I don't enjoy when someone comes out of stealth, fails the attack and just keeps coming back from different directions with no ability to actually kill me.

I guess when I think about it I've just over time encountered some annoying nightblades as I think others have too thus there being some support for this change.

Unfortunately with changes like this I can't just say hey can you give me a strong counter to only the annoying nightblades and not the good ones.

Mayrael

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

There is a difference between testing balance improvements and making absurd changes. Following your line of reasoning, if we were to nerf DK to the ground so that it was the worst possible class in PvP, the MAJORITY of players would be satisfied (considering statistics and natural distribution) because those who play DK as their MAIN are a minority. Would that be good for the game because the MAJORITY is satisfied? What if we treated Sorc the same way instead of DK? Do you understand what I'm getting at? The majority of players are not a good indicator of what is right, because the majority of players will always want to grab the biggest piece of cake for themselves. That's why it's so important for the dev team to make balanced and thoughtful decisions. Changing the value of any skill by 500% would lead to terrible consequences. Imagine any skill suddenly having a range of 150-200 meters. That's absurd, not "testing."

It's possible I didn't explain that as well as I should have but I see where you're coming from and I'll explain further.

This game is in a not so great place when it comes to balance. So when you see me say something might be better I'm speaking in the context of the already absurd thing that is called balance within this game. I'm basically working with what ZOS has been giving me so I'm going using that benchmark when I say better for all players.

What you're talking about is a better for all players in the context of a game with much better balance and development support which we don't exactly have here.

If I was using your guidelines (which ZOS doesn't seem to care to) then yes I would be asking for a much different set of changes for this and many other imbalances in the game.

Mayrael wrote: »

That's why it's so important for the dev team to make balanced and thoughtful decisions.

They do and have been as it meets their agenda at the time and that's what I've been trying to get across to people.

You ca definitely talk about this game as if it's the game you want it to be or you can talk about the game that this game more so seems to be.

I can totally understand though how I see this as at least being some type of progress in this highly skewed thing they call game balance where you see it as just ludicrous

Thanks for explaining, it does shed some light on your approach and I understand it better now. However, I don't believe such drastic changes are a remedy for the game's balance issues, on the contrary, such large changes only lead to more instability and I'm not going to just "take what they give me" but actively speak out, critical feedback is needed, especially in this case.

Let's consider two scenarios. One where this change never existed and the current one.
In the first case, nobody quits the game due to the lack of such a change (because no one would even think of it), because until now, although it wasn't perfect for everyone, it was bearable because if someone wanted to, they always had the option to hunt down NB. I didn't see any threads before this update saying: "Buff detection potions or I'm quitting the game!!!"

In the second case, you get a crowd of angry players (mainly NB), who will definitely oppose such changes in various ways, the most painful for ZOS being permanent resignations from the game, as these people are unlikely to ever return.

The current situation is unfortunately the aftermath of such a change being presented (even if only as a bug). If the change goes through, many NB players will quit the game. If the change doesn't go through, many players will be upset with ZOS for treating it only as a bug and will push for its introduction. I don't think people will quit the game because of this, but there will definitely be dissatisfaction.

Either way, ZOS had the opportunity to quickly resolve this issue and cut off all speculation immediately after it appeared. Now, however, after such a long time, in addition to embarrassment, they will receive unhappy players anyway.

AuraNebula

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Techwolf_Lupindo wrote: »

I think this is the result of customer feedback of leaving players when contacted by ZOS as to why they canceled ESO+ and left the game. I know many regular PvP players that have left the game due to issues. I am pretty sure the biggest issue with beginning players is they get ganked all the time even when running in beginners groups. Now, getting back at the gankers is the biggest issue, there are decated troll groups that drive away players due to one can't hunt and kill the gankers no matter what.

Eh I think it's more than that. I've ganked new players, bombed new players, x'd new players. Generally I've killed new players in multiple ways and I think they just don't like dying before they know what hit them and sometimes it's just a basic rotation from a more experienced player.

Honestly bombing to me is probably the bigger issue for players because here you are having the battle of your life hanging out with your friends or whatever and out of nowhere this thing just happens and now we all have to respawn and start over.

It's like if you were watching Bruce Lee finally fight Mohamed Ali but before they can get more than a few blows in a nuke just hits them both. Side note, obviously Ali wins but you get the point, we actually wanted to experience the fight and while I've done my fair share of bombing and ganking I will admit that nb is one of the classes that makes you feel like you just got reset for no good reason even if technically there is a reason and all that.

I know this potion will hurt some but I'd be lying if I said for once I didn't want to just see a large battle actually get to play out without nukes going off every other minute or so.

Though I can't really say that because I suspect bombs will still very much happen, just not from stealth.

No one left ESO because they got bombed. Bombing has been around since the beginning of the game. If you don't want to get bombed you need to have situational awareness. This is PvP not the land of milk and honey.

People didn't start leaving in droves until the past couple of years when lag got really bad and hybridization and DKs started reigning supreme.

Luede

BlueRaven wrote: »

Luede wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

There are numerous counters to cloak already.

BUT, a skilled nb can counter with dodge rolls, shade, shade, etc to get out of detect range and reenter cloak. THAT IS THE COUNTER PLAY.

no one dies. Counter and counter. That is perfect. That is the way it should be.

The players that are happy for this change want to be able to kill everything and feel the game should be designed that way. Well it shouldn't. There has to be counters for every class, not one size fits all. (Well maybe DK lol).

If you go with this change you are forcing all nbs to be brawlers. Well there are far better classes for brawler. I will dust off my dks and join the train.

maybe you should consider in your counter play essay that NBs now have a very strong class heal and don't need cloak at all.

the defense of NBs is now strongly gone through the roof

“A class does not need ability x because they have a (strong) class heal.”

What kind of argument is this?

Can we start cherry picking abilities for elimination from all of the classes, saying they don’t need them due to class heals?

it's a very simple calculation, if a class is significantly buffed, even though it was already doing well before thanks to stealth and image, there has to be a nerf. you can't eat the whole pie by yourself

Bushido2513

Mayrael wrote: »

Thanks for explaining, it does shed some light on your approach and I understand it better now. However, I don't believe such drastic changes are a remedy for the game's balance issues, on the contrary, such large changes only lead to more instability and I'm not going to just "take what they give me" but actively speak out, critical feedback is needed, especially in this case.

Let's consider two scenarios. One where this change never existed and the current one.
In the first case, nobody quits the game due to the lack of such a change (because no one would even think of it), because until now, although it wasn't perfect for everyone, it was bearable because if someone wanted to, they always had the option to hunt down NB. I didn't see any threads before this update saying: "Buff detection potions or I'm quitting the game!!!"

In the second case, you get a crowd of angry players (mainly NB), who will definitely oppose such changes in various ways, the most painful for ZOS being permanent resignations from the game, as these people are unlikely to ever return.

The current situation is unfortunately the aftermath of such a change being presented (even if only as a bug). If the change goes through, many NB players will quit the game. If the change doesn't go through, many players will be upset with ZOS for treating it only as a bug and will push for its introduction. I don't think people will quit the game because of this, but there will definitely be dissatisfaction.

Either way, ZOS had the opportunity to quickly resolve this issue and cut off all speculation immediately after it appeared. Now, however, after such a long time, in addition to embarrassment, they will receive unhappy players anyway.

You're very correct that this isn't a great remedy for anything really. But the thing is that this is just how ZOS works at this point. It's clear that they are following their vision and that's it. Every now and again they seem to take player feedback but I'm guessing it still has to fall within their overall vision.

So I look at it like this. I can try to tame a black bear or just accept it's a black and try to get it to not eat so many tourists.

I get that you're going to fight for the game you want and have paid for and I respect that and hope that one day they actually listen.

Just remember you're fighting a pattern of behavior here and that ZOS holds all the cards at this point. I don't say that to belittle you or anyone really, it's just facts.

ZOS isn't worried as much about retaining old players when they get as much or more value out of new or compliant players. That's a shame but it's also just business.

Also nobody really said anything about bombing as a reason to leave because we just accepted it and hey sometimes the bomber was on our side.

I'll even say this, I have enjoyed bombing and even have clips on yt, I deleted my gank clips for some reason. With that being said I'm interested in seeing what a world with less NB bombs would look like. Just curious is all I'm saying, not happy that a play style would be punished to achieve this.


That being said the funny part is that there will still be bombs. The only difference is that you'll see them coming.

Bushido2513

AuraNebula wrote: »

No one left ESO because they got bombed. Bombing has been around since the beginning of the game. If you don't want to get bombed you need to have situational awareness. This is PvP not the land of milk and honey.

People didn't start leaving in droves until the past couple of years when lag got really bad and hybridization and DKs started reigning supreme.

You are correct about lag and dk killing population among other things.

I'm not saying people left because of bombs and in fact even if this change happens there will still be many bombs, just ones you can see a bit more easily.

I mean this isn't my vision but it's clear that ZOS is aiming currently towards easy pvp access which is great for new entries but not as fun for some of the existing player base.

All that being said I'm just interested to see what combat looks like when visibility is more available.

I hope that if this change does go through and is terrible, that the player base will speak up and it will be reverted. I just think they deserve a chance to speak up after EVERYONE has a chance to try it out.

AuraNebula

Bushido2513 wrote: »

AuraNebula wrote: »

No one left ESO because they got bombed. Bombing has been around since the beginning of the game. If you don't want to get bombed you need to have situational awareness. This is PvP not the land of milk and honey.

People didn't start leaving in droves until the past couple of years when lag got really bad and hybridization and DKs started reigning supreme.

You are correct about lag and dk killing population among other things.

I'm not saying people left because of bombs and in fact even if this change happens there will still be many bombs, just ones you can see a bit more easily.

I mean this isn't my vision but it's clear that ZOS is aiming currently towards easy pvp access which is great for new entries but not as fun for some of the existing player base.

All that being said I'm just interested to see what combat looks like when visibility is more available.

I hope that if this change does go through and is terrible, that the player base will speak up and it will be reverted. I just think they deserve a chance to speak up after EVERYONE has a chance to try it out.

With the counters to stealth and invisibility already present in the game...it is easy to stop a bomber coming in to kill a group. With 100m you will be able to see bombers before they are even getting ready to bomb.

I know that I get targeted if I'm spotted because I am a known bomber. Might as well kill me before I cause a problem right? Same goes for other bombers. I try to kill as many enemy bombers on my NB to save my alliance from getting bombed. While I wait for my opportunity to bomb I look for other NBs to try and help my alliance win so they can focus on taking a keep.

This is what makes PvP exciting. You never know what is going to happen. But you're right an zos is aiming towards easy PvP access for new players, but if they can't hold on to their existing player base then what's the point? I love this game and it has given me years of wonderful memories, as it has for thousands of others. It just hurts seeing the direction they've decided to take it in.

Bushido2513

Luede wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Luede wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

There are numerous counters to cloak already.

BUT, a skilled nb can counter with dodge rolls, shade, shade, etc to get out of detect range and reenter cloak. THAT IS THE COUNTER PLAY.

no one dies. Counter and counter. That is perfect. That is the way it should be.

The players that are happy for this change want to be able to kill everything and feel the game should be designed that way. Well it shouldn't. There has to be counters for every class, not one size fits all. (Well maybe DK lol).

If you go with this change you are forcing all nbs to be brawlers. Well there are far better classes for brawler. I will dust off my dks and join the train.

maybe you should consider in your counter play essay that NBs now have a very strong class heal and don't need cloak at all.

the defense of NBs is now strongly gone through the roof

“A class does not need ability x because they have a (strong) class heal.”

What kind of argument is this?

Can we start cherry picking abilities for elimination from all of the classes, saying they don’t need them due to class heals?

it's a very simple calculation, if a class is significantly buffed, even though it was already doing well before thanks to stealth and image, there has to be a nerf. you can't eat the whole pie by yourself

Well you tried to make it simple lol but this case is anything but simple.

A class doing "better" is subjective but ok I do agree NB is in a good place. Where this gets tricky is that cloak isn't just used for brawling players.

A brawler, bomber, and newbie trying to get across the street all have different uses for cloak.

For some it's part of an attack but not critical, for another it's critical to the attack and any spec of defense, for a newbie or questing it's purely critical defense

So when considering a skill properly you have to factor in scenarios and the like to better understand the impact of changes.

ShadowProc

Luede wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

There are numerous counters to cloak already.

BUT, a skilled nb can counter with dodge rolls, shade, shade, etc to get out of detect range and reenter cloak. THAT IS THE COUNTER PLAY.

no one dies. Counter and counter. That is perfect. That is the way it should be.

The players that are happy for this change want to be able to kill everything and feel the game should be designed that way. Well it shouldn't. There has to be counters for every class, not one size fits all. (Well maybe DK lol).

If you go with this change you are forcing all nbs to be brawlers. Well there are far better classes for brawler. I will dust off my dks and join the train.

maybe you should consider in your counter play essay that NBs now have a very strong class heal and don't need cloak at all.

the defense of NBs is now strongly gone through the roof

Wrong. If you build as a brawler. Not the same if you like rogue playstyle. This will destroy that playstyle. The majority of the nb population is playing it as we like to play rogue. Take that away and I am gone for good. It will be the final nail in the coffin for me. As I am sure for others.

We like jumping into the game and being able to play solo. Hence being a ROGUE.

You all want less players then so be it

ShadowProc

Luede wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Luede wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

There are numerous counters to cloak already.

BUT, a skilled nb can counter with dodge rolls, shade, shade, etc to get out of detect range and reenter cloak. THAT IS THE COUNTER PLAY.

no one dies. Counter and counter. That is perfect. That is the way it should be.

The players that are happy for this change want to be able to kill everything and feel the game should be designed that way. Well it shouldn't. There has to be counters for every class, not one size fits all. (Well maybe DK lol).

If you go with this change you are forcing all nbs to be brawlers. Well there are far better classes for brawler. I will dust off my dks and join the train.

maybe you should consider in your counter play essay that NBs now have a very strong class heal and don't need cloak at all.

the defense of NBs is now strongly gone through the roof

“A class does not need ability x because they have a (strong) class heal.”

What kind of argument is this?

Can we start cherry picking abilities for elimination from all of the classes, saying they don’t need them due to class heals?

it's a very simple calculation, if a class is significantly buffed, even though it was already doing well before thanks to stealth and image, there has to be a nerf. you can't eat the whole pie by yourself

No it's not a simple calculation. You are plain wrong. It's about killing the rogue playstyle. Those are the ones here advocating to reverse this. Most nbs don't want to play brawler. Your missing the while point. I can tell you are a player that doesn't use existing tools to detect and counter nbs. Or you get mad because there are players you can't kill.

The_Lex

In every TES game since Morrowind, the Nightblade class is uniquely designed to play with cloak and shadow:

Morrowind Nightblade Class
In-game Description: Nightblades are spellcasters who use their magics to enhance mobility, concealment, and stealthy close combat. They have a sinister reputation, since many nightblades are thieves, enforcers, assassins, or covert agents.

Oblivion Nightblade Class
In-game description: Spell and shadow are their friends. By darkness they move with haste, casting magic to benefit their circumstances.

ESO Nightblade Class Description (on the official website)
Attack from the shadows, drain your foes' health, and vanish into the void with the Nightblade Class. The shadows truly are your greatest weapon as you wield abilities that deal devastating damage at any range and siphon your victim's lifeforce to your allies.

Nothing in these descriptions point toward a Nightblade playing a "brawler style." In fact, brawling is antithetical to the descriptions themselves. But, I'm good with people playing how they want. I am, however, against players who refuse to use the detection skills (class and guild skills) which are designed to combat the core nightblade play style but would, instead, have the historical style nerfed.

StarOfElyon

I hope this goes live.

Maitsukas

From the latest patch notes:

Detection Potions: Reduced the bonus detection size of these potions to 43.5 meters, down from 100 meters. These values will ensure similar power experiences and detection sizes as before, with the new updates to how Invisibility works with detection bonuses under the hood.

Bushido2513

ShadowProc wrote: »

You all want less players then so be it

Eh I mean that's one way to look at it. I trend to think that due to being invested more will just do what we're normally do when ZOS throws a curve ball, shelve the class and switch, take a break, or leave the game all together.

The thing is that likely more will stick around than leave overall for several reasons that don't revolve around what cloak is currently, new class, new, chapter, promise of servers, existing friends, etc.

I speak from experience of watching classes get gutted over the years and people still staying cloak might be the last straw but I doubt bit and if anything they will just revert it in a patch or two and say they need to gather data before doing so.

Mayrael

Here we have it, it was a bug afterall.

BlueRaven

Mayrael wrote: »

Here we have it, it was a bug afterall.

Not really. They apparently readjusted how detect works?

What changed?

Sedare38

Did they address why they made the change to 100m? No, did they then nerf it but still not provide an adequate explanation of the change in the first place? Yes.

FROM TODAY'S PTS NOTES:

"General
Detection Potions: Reduced the bonus detection size of these potions to 43.5 meters, down from 100 meters. These values will ensure similar power experiences and detection sizes as before, with the new updates to how Invisibility works with detection bonuses under the hood."

Estin

So how does invisible work with detection bonuses now that warranted such a change?

EramTheLiar

BlueRaven wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Here we have it, it was a bug afterall.

Not really. They apparently readjusted how detect works?

What changed?

The change was in 9.0.0:

Fixed an issue where sources of Invisibility from things such as Shadow Cloak or potions could still allow you to be detected by other players in some cases, such as when you were wearing too many pieces of Heavy Armor, or when player targets had increases to Stealth Detection.

The speculation was whatever changed there also resulted in extending the detect potion range, if I recall correctly.

And thinking about it, hindisight being 20-20, I could see the extension of the detect potion range being deliberate, for the purpose of testing (though why they wouldn't comment on it is beyond me). But whether deliberate or not, it's not 100m any more.

Bushido2513

The_Lex wrote: »

I am, however, against players who refuse to use the detection skills (class and guild skills) which are designed to combat the core nightblade play style but would, instead, have the historical style nerfed.

I'm afraid that ship has sailed at this point. The game is clearly moving towards a more new player friendly vibe with less of a skill gap or expectation.

History, lore, themes, etc are really more for flavor at this point then anything.

To ZOS credit the game is much more new player friendly than it was years ago when I started. But that progress comes with a price I suppose and I think vet players tend to feel it the most unfortunately.

Bushido2513

As of latest patch notes are we all good now?

Thecompton73

.

Bushido2513 wrote: »

As of latest patch notes are we all good now?

Not really, it's still a very big change to one of the core aspects to how NB and other stealth players are hidden/revealed and nothing in the original patch notes about stealth or the more recent notes about the detection potion serve to clearly explain what exactly changed about stealth, why that necessitates the potion change nor the plan for what stealth play is going to look/feel like after this hits live.

Mayrael

So I conducted some tests on the PTS and here's what I found:

1. Exactly as written in the patch notes, the detection range of targets that are INVISIBLE has not changed compared to what's on live. Everything is okay!
2. The bug where someone standing very close (<1m) to a NB and not using any detection methods could still see the NB even when they were invisible has been fixed. Great!
3. However, there has been a significant change to the detection range of players who are in stealth. I marked on the picture MORE OR LESS how it looks like in practice in the game.

EDIT:
In other words, cloak wasn't nerfed and even got fixed. Stealth aka crouch got nerfed about twice the range.
All test were done with CP's Piercing Gaze and Out of sight.

Mayrael

Bushido2513 wrote: »

As of latest patch notes are we all good now?

Seems fine, but I correctly guessed the reason for this change.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7858538/#Comment_7858538

So why didn't anyone bothered to confirm "Yes, that's it, we're working on a solution, thank you for your patience"?