Maintenance for the week of November 25:
• [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 25, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 7:00AM EST (12:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 27, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 27, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 25, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 7:00AM EST (12:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 27, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 27, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
PTS Update 37 - Feedback Thread for Combat & Classes
-
TechMaybeHic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The_Titan_Tim wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »I've seen whirling blades dodges or just moved out of.
Either way; those 2 executes are already fine. Don't need buffs. Not sure why we are trying to fix things that are not broken
They’re not fine. They aren’t killing people. Executes work best when they are a 50/50.
Blockcasting is broken, so instead of taking everyone’s toy from them, you create a counter.
They kill people all the time. I'm not sure what you're on about.
I haven’t died to a Killer’s Blade since 2016 on any build, and when Executioner kills me, it’s because the ability is timed with a burst, where if they substituted it for Uppercut, it would have yielded the same result.
I’m speaking from a place of high APM.
As someone who duels for hours almost daily with some of the sweatiest players on XB/NA.
You’re not hitting me with those abilities unless you Off-Balance Stun me leading into them…
Something impossible if I’m rolling or blocking.
I can't take you seriously if you say an uppercut can do it. The best past of executioner is that you follow an uppercut and it goes off immediately after the uppercut because the GCD starts at activation of the uppercut. Yes; you combo it...
And should we discuss the scaling of those AOE ones with undeath and major evasion? Hey; but let's buff NB And I right?
If they provided the same functionality to Executioner, it wouldn’t be a “Nightblade” buff, it would be a well rounded buff for anyone using a melee single target execute.
If you’re hitting someone that is both not blocking and not dodging under 30% Health, how would any burst move combined with an uppercut not kill your target? Should I be taking you seriously?
They just buffed one NB execute to match executioner scaling and the other to always do it's modifiers at 25% if I recall. Yes, they are all dodgeable but they have 5ge higher modifiers. There are shortcomings for all of them as there should be. including the whirling blades target less being moved out of by faster targets, or the bashable Radiant Oppression
How are you comboing an uppercut as the last move in the combo given its channel? That's backwards. If you use uppercut, it's before the executioner. Uppercut can land with a medium and executioner in a very rapid succession.
Quite easily. Dizzying Swing creates off-balance, something you can med-weave your opponent to stun them into taking full damage from whatever ability you want, even an ultimate. Why Killer’s Blade when you can Spectral Bow someone much harder?
I do it quite often, you should try it out.
That's not finishing with dizzy, that's starting. You said you can just finish with dizzy
Why are you saying either spectral bow OR killers blade. Both should be available.
Both statements; are not an either or. Should be using combos maybe even all. A spammable is not a replacement for a burst, and a burst is not a replacement for an execute, and an execute is not a replacement for a spammable save for the extended range and damage spin to win, which is then the worst scaled execute
Edited by TechMaybeHic on March 12, 2023 5:43PM0 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭TechMaybeHic wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »I've seen whirling blades dodges or just moved out of.
Either way; those 2 executes are already fine. Don't need buffs. Not sure why we are trying to fix things that are not broken
They’re not fine. They aren’t killing people. Executes work best when they are a 50/50.
Blockcasting is broken, so instead of taking everyone’s toy from them, you create a counter.
They kill people all the time. I'm not sure what you're on about.
I haven’t died to a Killer’s Blade since 2016 on any build, and when Executioner kills me, it’s because the ability is timed with a burst, where if they substituted it for Uppercut, it would have yielded the same result.
I’m speaking from a place of high APM.
As someone who duels for hours almost daily with some of the sweatiest players on XB/NA.
You’re not hitting me with those abilities unless you Off-Balance Stun me leading into them…
Something impossible if I’m rolling or blocking.
I can't take you seriously if you say an uppercut can do it. The best past of executioner is that you follow an uppercut and it goes off immediately after the uppercut because the GCD starts at activation of the uppercut. Yes; you combo it...
And should we discuss the scaling of those AOE ones with undeath and major evasion? Hey; but let's buff NB And I right?
If they provided the same functionality to Executioner, it wouldn’t be a “Nightblade” buff, it would be a well rounded buff for anyone using a melee single target execute.
If you’re hitting someone that is both not blocking and not dodging under 30% Health, how would any burst move combined with an uppercut not kill your target? Should I be taking you seriously?
They just buffed one NB execute to match executioner scaling and the other to always do it's modifiers at 25% if I recall. Yes, they are all dodgeable but they have 5ge higher modifiers. There are shortcomings for all of them as there should be. including the whirling blades target less being moved out of by faster targets, or the bashable Radiant Oppression
How are you comboing an uppercut as the last move in the combo given its channel? That's backwards. If you use uppercut, it's before the executioner. Uppercut can land with a medium and executioner in a very rapid succession.
Quite easily. Dizzying Swing creates off-balance, something you can med-weave your opponent to stun them into taking full damage from whatever ability you want, even an ultimate. Why Killer’s Blade when you can Spectral Bow someone much harder?
I do it quite often, you should try it out.
That's not finishing with dizzy, that's starting. You said you can just finish with dizzy
Why are you saying either spectral bow OR killers blade. Both should be available.
Both statements; are not an either or. Should be using combos maybe even all.
Absolutely not. I said “Dizzy and a burst move”The_Titan_Tim wrote: »If you’re hitting someone that is both not blocking and not dodging under 30% Health, how would any burst move combined with an uppercut not kill your target? Should I be taking you seriously?
Count on your hand how many times you’ve died to Killer’s Blade in PvP.
While you’re doing that, find me your class so I can understand your perspective.Edited by The_Titan_Tim on March 12, 2023 5:53PM0 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭Being a Templar opting for Radiant Destruction over other executes, or any class that rolls out with a defensive bar using either a shield or an ice staff, utilizing a burst heal while blocking immediately creates a bias.
If I recall correctly, you used to be a Templar main.
How can we have a good natured conversation about the need for execute abilities to shine, similar to how Radiant Destruction does currently, or the need for Blockcasting to be addressed when you’re biased to the idea, @TechMaybeHic?Edited by The_Titan_Tim on March 12, 2023 5:58PM0 -
TechMaybeHic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The_Titan_Tim wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »I've seen whirling blades dodges or just moved out of.
Either way; those 2 executes are already fine. Don't need buffs. Not sure why we are trying to fix things that are not broken
They’re not fine. They aren’t killing people. Executes work best when they are a 50/50.
Blockcasting is broken, so instead of taking everyone’s toy from them, you create a counter.
They kill people all the time. I'm not sure what you're on about.
I haven’t died to a Killer’s Blade since 2016 on any build, and when Executioner kills me, it’s because the ability is timed with a burst, where if they substituted it for Uppercut, it would have yielded the same result.
I’m speaking from a place of high APM.
As someone who duels for hours almost daily with some of the sweatiest players on XB/NA.
You’re not hitting me with those abilities unless you Off-Balance Stun me leading into them…
Something impossible if I’m rolling or blocking.
I can't take you seriously if you say an uppercut can do it. The best past of executioner is that you follow an uppercut and it goes off immediately after the uppercut because the GCD starts at activation of the uppercut. Yes; you combo it...
And should we discuss the scaling of those AOE ones with undeath and major evasion? Hey; but let's buff NB And I right?
If they provided the same functionality to Executioner, it wouldn’t be a “Nightblade” buff, it would be a well rounded buff for anyone using a melee single target execute.
If you’re hitting someone that is both not blocking and not dodging under 30% Health, how would any burst move combined with an uppercut not kill your target? Should I be taking you seriously?
They just buffed one NB execute to match executioner scaling and the other to always do it's modifiers at 25% if I recall. Yes, they are all dodgeable but they have 5ge higher modifiers. There are shortcomings for all of them as there should be. including the whirling blades target less being moved out of by faster targets, or the bashable Radiant Oppression
How are you comboing an uppercut as the last move in the combo given its channel? That's backwards. If you use uppercut, it's before the executioner. Uppercut can land with a medium and executioner in a very rapid succession.
Quite easily. Dizzying Swing creates off-balance, something you can med-weave your opponent to stun them into taking full damage from whatever ability you want, even an ultimate. Why Killer’s Blade when you can Spectral Bow someone much harder?
I do it quite often, you should try it out.
That's not finishing with dizzy, that's starting. You said you can just finish with dizzy
Why are you saying either spectral bow OR killers blade. Both should be available.
Both statements; are not an either or. Should be using combos maybe even all.
Absolutely not. I said “Dizzy and a burst move”
Count on your hand how many times you’ve died to Killer’s Blade in PvP.
While you’re doing that, find me your class so I can understand your perspective.
I was a templar from beta up until update 35. Since I have played NB, Necro, and DK in order of mist played. NB being the most and I have reverse slice for group, then killers blade solo. Necro I used spin to win because it has one job until tomorrow. DK; I run executioner.
Necro, not withstanding; both the DK and NB are similar to kill any good target. Get proc up, CC, Ultimate, burst, execute. Hope you get them burst before they heal. And if it takes much less than that; they are not very good0 -
TechMaybeHic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Being a Templar opting for Radiant Destruction over other executes, or any class that rolls out with a defensive bar using either a shield or an ice staff, utilizing a burst heal while blocking immediately creates a bias.
If I recall correctly, you used to be a Templar main.
How can we have a good natured conversation about the need for execute abilities to shine, similar to how Radiant Destruction does currently, or the need for Blockcasting to be addressed when you’re biased to the idea, @TechMaybeHic?
How am I biased to the idea?
How can we have a conversation if your basis is an over scaled ability that supposedly is to make up for everything else templar lacks for burst?1 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭TechMaybeHic wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »I've seen whirling blades dodges or just moved out of.
Either way; those 2 executes are already fine. Don't need buffs. Not sure why we are trying to fix things that are not broken
They’re not fine. They aren’t killing people. Executes work best when they are a 50/50.
Blockcasting is broken, so instead of taking everyone’s toy from them, you create a counter.
They kill people all the time. I'm not sure what you're on about.
I haven’t died to a Killer’s Blade since 2016 on any build, and when Executioner kills me, it’s because the ability is timed with a burst, where if they substituted it for Uppercut, it would have yielded the same result.
I’m speaking from a place of high APM.
As someone who duels for hours almost daily with some of the sweatiest players on XB/NA.
You’re not hitting me with those abilities unless you Off-Balance Stun me leading into them…
Something impossible if I’m rolling or blocking.
I can't take you seriously if you say an uppercut can do it. The best past of executioner is that you follow an uppercut and it goes off immediately after the uppercut because the GCD starts at activation of the uppercut. Yes; you combo it...
And should we discuss the scaling of those AOE ones with undeath and major evasion? Hey; but let's buff NB And I right?
If they provided the same functionality to Executioner, it wouldn’t be a “Nightblade” buff, it would be a well rounded buff for anyone using a melee single target execute.
If you’re hitting someone that is both not blocking and not dodging under 30% Health, how would any burst move combined with an uppercut not kill your target? Should I be taking you seriously?
They just buffed one NB execute to match executioner scaling and the other to always do it's modifiers at 25% if I recall. Yes, they are all dodgeable but they have 5ge higher modifiers. There are shortcomings for all of them as there should be. including the whirling blades target less being moved out of by faster targets, or the bashable Radiant Oppression
How are you comboing an uppercut as the last move in the combo given its channel? That's backwards. If you use uppercut, it's before the executioner. Uppercut can land with a medium and executioner in a very rapid succession.
Quite easily. Dizzying Swing creates off-balance, something you can med-weave your opponent to stun them into taking full damage from whatever ability you want, even an ultimate. Why Killer’s Blade when you can Spectral Bow someone much harder?
I do it quite often, you should try it out.
That's not finishing with dizzy, that's starting. You said you can just finish with dizzy
Why are you saying either spectral bow OR killers blade. Both should be available.
Both statements; are not an either or. Should be using combos maybe even all.
Absolutely not. I said “Dizzy and a burst move”
Count on your hand how many times you’ve died to Killer’s Blade in PvP.
While you’re doing that, find me your class so I can understand your perspective.
I was a templar from beta up until update 35. Since I have played NB, Necro, and DK in order of mist played. NB being the most and I have reverse slice for group, then killers blade solo. Necro I used spin to win because it has one job until tomorrow. DK; I run executioner.
Necro, not withstanding; both the DK and NB are similar to kill any good target. Get proc up, CC, Ultimate, burst, execute. Hope you get them burst before they heal. And if it takes much less than that; they are not very good
Killer’s Blade doesn’t kill, it doesn’t do enough.
Whenever I die to a Nightblade, it’s never on my recap, and I exclusively run Stage 3, as it works great with Coral Riptide, one of my favorite sets at the moment.
My recap looks like this,
Concealed Weapon,
Heavy Attack,
Incapacitating Strike,
Light Attack,
Assassin’s Will.
Rarely you will replace Incap with Tether, and Assassin’s Will with Whirling Blades.0 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭TechMaybeHic wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Being a Templar opting for Radiant Destruction over other executes, or any class that rolls out with a defensive bar using either a shield or an ice staff, utilizing a burst heal while blocking immediately creates a bias.
If I recall correctly, you used to be a Templar main.
How can we have a good natured conversation about the need for execute abilities to shine, similar to how Radiant Destruction does currently, or the need for Blockcasting to be addressed when you’re biased to the idea, @TechMaybeHic?
How am I biased to the idea?
How can we have a conversation if your basis is an over scaled ability that supposedly is to make up for everything else templar lacks for burst?
If Radiant Destruction didn’t effect targets roll-dodging, would anyone use it?0 -
TechMaybeHic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The_Titan_Tim wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »I've seen whirling blades dodges or just moved out of.
Either way; those 2 executes are already fine. Don't need buffs. Not sure why we are trying to fix things that are not broken
They’re not fine. They aren’t killing people. Executes work best when they are a 50/50.
Blockcasting is broken, so instead of taking everyone’s toy from them, you create a counter.
They kill people all the time. I'm not sure what you're on about.
I haven’t died to a Killer’s Blade since 2016 on any build, and when Executioner kills me, it’s because the ability is timed with a burst, where if they substituted it for Uppercut, it would have yielded the same result.
I’m speaking from a place of high APM.
As someone who duels for hours almost daily with some of the sweatiest players on XB/NA.
You’re not hitting me with those abilities unless you Off-Balance Stun me leading into them…
Something impossible if I’m rolling or blocking.
I can't take you seriously if you say an uppercut can do it. The best past of executioner is that you follow an uppercut and it goes off immediately after the uppercut because the GCD starts at activation of the uppercut. Yes; you combo it...
And should we discuss the scaling of those AOE ones with undeath and major evasion? Hey; but let's buff NB And I right?
If they provided the same functionality to Executioner, it wouldn’t be a “Nightblade” buff, it would be a well rounded buff for anyone using a melee single target execute.
If you’re hitting someone that is both not blocking and not dodging under 30% Health, how would any burst move combined with an uppercut not kill your target? Should I be taking you seriously?
They just buffed one NB execute to match executioner scaling and the other to always do it's modifiers at 25% if I recall. Yes, they are all dodgeable but they have 5ge higher modifiers. There are shortcomings for all of them as there should be. including the whirling blades target less being moved out of by faster targets, or the bashable Radiant Oppression
How are you comboing an uppercut as the last move in the combo given its channel? That's backwards. If you use uppercut, it's before the executioner. Uppercut can land with a medium and executioner in a very rapid succession.
Quite easily. Dizzying Swing creates off-balance, something you can med-weave your opponent to stun them into taking full damage from whatever ability you want, even an ultimate. Why Killer’s Blade when you can Spectral Bow someone much harder?
I do it quite often, you should try it out.
That's not finishing with dizzy, that's starting. You said you can just finish with dizzy
Why are you saying either spectral bow OR killers blade. Both should be available.
Both statements; are not an either or. Should be using combos maybe even all.
Absolutely not. I said “Dizzy and a burst move”
Count on your hand how many times you’ve died to Killer’s Blade in PvP.
While you’re doing that, find me your class so I can understand your perspective.
I was a templar from beta up until update 35. Since I have played NB, Necro, and DK in order of mist played. NB being the most and I have reverse slice for group, then killers blade solo. Necro I used spin to win because it has one job until tomorrow. DK; I run executioner.
Necro, not withstanding; both the DK and NB are similar to kill any good target. Get proc up, CC, Ultimate, burst, execute. Hope you get them burst before they heal. And if it takes much less than that; they are not very good
Killer’s Blade doesn’t kill, it doesn’t do enough.
Whenever I die to a Nightblade, it’s never on my recap, and I exclusively run Stage 3, as it works great with Coral Riptide, one of my favorite sets at the moment.
My recap looks like this,
Concealed Weapon,
Heavy Attack,
Incapacitating Strike,
Light Attack,
Assassin’s Will.
Rarely you will replace Incap with Tether, and Assassin’s Will with Whirling Blades.
They didn't need an execute on you then if they ended with Assassin's Will. That's what comes next, and whirling blades probably has other build decisions involved especially with tether as we are talking ab AOE bomb but killers blade hits harder single target so I go with that because undeath is a thing and so are mass healing
0 -
TechMaybeHic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The_Titan_Tim wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Being a Templar opting for Radiant Destruction over other executes, or any class that rolls out with a defensive bar using either a shield or an ice staff, utilizing a burst heal while blocking immediately creates a bias.
If I recall correctly, you used to be a Templar main.
How can we have a good natured conversation about the need for execute abilities to shine, similar to how Radiant Destruction does currently, or the need for Blockcasting to be addressed when you’re biased to the idea, @TechMaybeHic?
How am I biased to the idea?
How can we have a conversation if your basis is an over scaled ability that supposedly is to make up for everything else templar lacks for burst?
If Radiant Destruction didn’t effect targets roll-dodging, would anyone use it?
Yep. It has been a favorite to spam from the back of a group since it came out. Wat keeps people from using it, until it got ridiculous level of scaling; is by yourself, there is a dela before it goes off and you miss your execute window0 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭TechMaybeHic wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Being a Templar opting for Radiant Destruction over other executes, or any class that rolls out with a defensive bar using either a shield or an ice staff, utilizing a burst heal while blocking immediately creates a bias.
If I recall correctly, you used to be a Templar main.
How can we have a good natured conversation about the need for execute abilities to shine, similar to how Radiant Destruction does currently, or the need for Blockcasting to be addressed when you’re biased to the idea, @TechMaybeHic?
How am I biased to the idea?
How can we have a conversation if your basis is an over scaled ability that supposedly is to make up for everything else templar lacks for burst?
If Radiant Destruction didn’t effect targets roll-dodging, would anyone use it?
Yep. It has been a favorite to spam from the back of a group since it came out. Wat keeps people from using it, until it got ridiculous level of scaling; is by yourself, there is a dela before it goes off and you miss your execute window
If Radiant didn’t effect Roll Dodge, I honestly don’t believe any Melee Templar would use the ability.
That Roll Dodge catch is extremely powerful, and rightfully so. There needs to be counterplay to every playstyle.
There are quite a few ways to attack Blockcasting, you could buff resource draining sets, you could buff Nocturnal’s Ploy to the point where it takes buffs off as fast as Daedric Trickery applies them, or you could make more abilities go through block.
Every execute should feel like Radiant,
but in their own unique ways.
This is how you fix the meta.
It attacks the two things overperforming most…
Blockcasting and Stage 3Edited by The_Titan_Tim on March 12, 2023 7:03PM0 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Or we could nerf both Stage 3 and Blockcasting without needing to create another issuePlatform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc4 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »Or we could nerf both Stage 3 and Blockcasting without needing to create another issue
How would you go about nerfing Blockcasting without absolutely destroying PvE tanks?
Because I’ve already ran through your suggestion multiple times, and have yet to conceptualize an answer that doesn’t make tanks mains cancel you.Edited by The_Titan_Tim on March 13, 2023 5:08AM0 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The_Titan_Tim wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Or we could nerf both Stage 3 and Blockcasting without needing to create another issue
How would you go about nerfing Blockcasting without absolutely destroying PvE tanks?
Because I’ve already ran through your suggestion multiple times, and have yet to conceptualize an answer that doesn’t make tanks mains cancel you.
1) Introduce a unique debuff that increases Block Cost by X amount
2) Decrease the Block Mitigation potential by half in PvP through Battle Spirit. A 50% base block mitigation will now be 25%. They did it with healing and shields, so I'm sure they can do it with Block mitigation.
All of these won't 100% solve the block casting issue because it only takes 1 block + a burst heal to instantly restore full HP, but it would target their sustain without hurting PvErs. There's also the last option which is nerfing burst heal values. It won't affect PvE healers because they get the full value and their crit heals are usually 20-25k+. A slight 20% nerf to that won't make trial runs impossible.Platform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc0 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭Unblockable single-target melee executes would ensure those executes succeed at their designed role, making it actually dangerous for players to hit 25% health in a defensive heavy meta...
…all the while providing an answer to Blockcasting and more importantly their synergy with Burst Heals, inadvertently buffing Sorcerer as they are the only class without a stand-alone burst heal, and the least likely to suffer from this change while nerfing egregious offenders like Dragonknight, Warden, and Nightblade as they are the most guilty of Ice Staff blocked burst heals.
I hear so much complaining about things overperforming, and underperforming… buff Sorc, nerf DK, yet here we have a solution that does both of those things and it’s not adequate?0 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Unblockable single-target melee executes would ensure those executes succeed at their designed role, making it actually dangerous for players to hit 25% health in a defensive heavy meta...
…all the while providing an answer to Blockcasting and more importantly their synergy with Burst Heals, inadvertently buffing Sorcerer as they are the only class without a stand-alone burst heal, and the least likely to suffer from this change while nerfing egregious offenders like Dragonknight, Warden, and Nightblade as they are the most guilty of Ice Staff blocked burst heals.
I hear so much complaining about things overperforming, and underperforming… buff Sorc, nerf DK, yet here we have a solution that does both of those things and it’s not adequate?
Okay so let's say unblockable single target melee executes are implemented. You go into Cyrodiil and encounter a templar with Jesus beam and a Nb with Killer's Blade. Jesus Beam is blockable but undodgable, and Killer's Blade is unblockable but dodgable.
What exactly do you propose the player do in this situation? I'm sure you've 1vXed before, so please tell me your thoughts on this.Platform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc0 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Unblockable single-target melee executes would ensure those executes succeed at their designed role, making it actually dangerous for players to hit 25% health in a defensive heavy meta...
…all the while providing an answer to Blockcasting and more importantly their synergy with Burst Heals, inadvertently buffing Sorcerer as they are the only class without a stand-alone burst heal, and the least likely to suffer from this change while nerfing egregious offenders like Dragonknight, Warden, and Nightblade as they are the most guilty of Ice Staff blocked burst heals.
I hear so much complaining about things overperforming, and underperforming… buff Sorc, nerf DK, yet here we have a solution that does both of those things and it’s not adequate?
Okay so let's say unblockable single target melee executes are implemented. You go into Cyrodiil and encounter a templar with Jesus beam and a Nb with Killer's Blade. Jesus Beam is blockable but undodgable, and Killer's Blade is unblockable but dodgable.
What exactly do you propose the player do in this situation? I'm sure you've 1vXed before, so please tell me your thoughts on this.
You line of sight, this game isn’t balanced for 1vX.
ESO LoS is the biggest cheat code I’ve ever seen in any game. It doesn’t matter if you can’t block or dodge an ability when it can’t target you.Edited by The_Titan_Tim on March 13, 2023 5:30AM0 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The_Titan_Tim wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Unblockable single-target melee executes would ensure those executes succeed at their designed role, making it actually dangerous for players to hit 25% health in a defensive heavy meta...
…all the while providing an answer to Blockcasting and more importantly their synergy with Burst Heals, inadvertently buffing Sorcerer as they are the only class without a stand-alone burst heal, and the least likely to suffer from this change while nerfing egregious offenders like Dragonknight, Warden, and Nightblade as they are the most guilty of Ice Staff blocked burst heals.
I hear so much complaining about things overperforming, and underperforming… buff Sorc, nerf DK, yet here we have a solution that does both of those things and it’s not adequate?
Okay so let's say unblockable single target melee executes are implemented. You go into Cyrodiil and encounter a templar with Jesus beam and a Nb with Killer's Blade. Jesus Beam is blockable but undodgable, and Killer's Blade is unblockable but dodgable.
What exactly do you propose the player do in this situation? I'm sure you've 1vXed before, so please tell me your thoughts on this.
You line of sight, this game isn’t balanced for 1vX.
ESO LoS is the biggest cheat code I’ve ever seen in any game.
But LoS requires you to be fast to reach the line of sight faster and have enough time to recover before your enemies approach.
How can you get to line of sight quickly when Jesus Beam is undodgable, forcing you to hold block which reduces your movement speed? Then the NB comes and executes you through your block because it's unblockable. You literally have no option but death.Platform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc0 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Unblockable single-target melee executes would ensure those executes succeed at their designed role, making it actually dangerous for players to hit 25% health in a defensive heavy meta...
…all the while providing an answer to Blockcasting and more importantly their synergy with Burst Heals, inadvertently buffing Sorcerer as they are the only class without a stand-alone burst heal, and the least likely to suffer from this change while nerfing egregious offenders like Dragonknight, Warden, and Nightblade as they are the most guilty of Ice Staff blocked burst heals.
I hear so much complaining about things overperforming, and underperforming… buff Sorc, nerf DK, yet here we have a solution that does both of those things and it’s not adequate?
Okay so let's say unblockable single target melee executes are implemented. You go into Cyrodiil and encounter a templar with Jesus beam and a Nb with Killer's Blade. Jesus Beam is blockable but undodgable, and Killer's Blade is unblockable but dodgable.
What exactly do you propose the player do in this situation? I'm sure you've 1vXed before, so please tell me your thoughts on this.
You line of sight, this game isn’t balanced for 1vX.
ESO LoS is the biggest cheat code I’ve ever seen in any game.
But LoS requires you to be fast to reach the line of sight faster and have enough time to recover before your enemies approach.
How can you get to line of sight quickly when Jesus Beam is undodgable, forcing you to hold block which reduces your movement speed? Then the NB comes and executes you through your block because it's unblockable. You literally have no option but death.
You already have no option but death when fighting any decent ball group, look no further than the countless proc sets available.
Avoiding proper answers to problems in the fear of unbalancing 1vX, when it’s already in nature imbalanced and incapable of being balanced…
… is something I can’t quite get behind.
When you go out looking to be outnumbered, you’re embracing the challenge, adding more to it only increases your glory when you pull it off.1 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The_Titan_Tim wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Unblockable single-target melee executes would ensure those executes succeed at their designed role, making it actually dangerous for players to hit 25% health in a defensive heavy meta...
…all the while providing an answer to Blockcasting and more importantly their synergy with Burst Heals, inadvertently buffing Sorcerer as they are the only class without a stand-alone burst heal, and the least likely to suffer from this change while nerfing egregious offenders like Dragonknight, Warden, and Nightblade as they are the most guilty of Ice Staff blocked burst heals.
I hear so much complaining about things overperforming, and underperforming… buff Sorc, nerf DK, yet here we have a solution that does both of those things and it’s not adequate?
Okay so let's say unblockable single target melee executes are implemented. You go into Cyrodiil and encounter a templar with Jesus beam and a Nb with Killer's Blade. Jesus Beam is blockable but undodgable, and Killer's Blade is unblockable but dodgable.
What exactly do you propose the player do in this situation? I'm sure you've 1vXed before, so please tell me your thoughts on this.
You line of sight, this game isn’t balanced for 1vX.
ESO LoS is the biggest cheat code I’ve ever seen in any game.
But LoS requires you to be fast to reach the line of sight faster and have enough time to recover before your enemies approach.
How can you get to line of sight quickly when Jesus Beam is undodgable, forcing you to hold block which reduces your movement speed? Then the NB comes and executes you through your block because it's unblockable. You literally have no option but death.
You already have no option but death when fighting any decent ball group, look no further than the countless proc sets available.
Avoiding proper answers to problems in the fear of unbalancing 1vX, when it’s already in nature imbalanced and incapable of being balanced…
… is something I can’t quite get behind.
When you go out looking to be outnumbered, you’re embracing the challenge, adding more to it only increases your glory when you pull it off.
I didn't say ball group. I said a templar and a NB, a 1v2. It's a very survivable situation, but making melee executes unblockable will remove the option to survive.
1vX is not really imbalanced. You're just going against a bunch of players less experienced than you. It's like pitting Lebron against 3 high schoolers. He's obviously going to win a 1v3. Players should be rewarded for putting in time and effort to hone their skills, and 1vXing is one of those rewards. Obviously winning a 1v3 vs newbies isn't really interesting, but when it's a 1v5, 1v6, or even 1v7, the fight becomes rewarding in itself.
When I go out looking for outnumbered fights, I don't complain about dying. But when there's broken things that are clearly imbalanced and amplified in an outnumbered fight like fighting someone with 3 proc sets, heavy attack builds that can do 20k dmg, or undodgable/unblockable ranged executes, then I'm going to complain lol.Edited by StaticWave on March 13, 2023 5:48AMPlatform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc0 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Unblockable single-target melee executes would ensure those executes succeed at their designed role, making it actually dangerous for players to hit 25% health in a defensive heavy meta...
…all the while providing an answer to Blockcasting and more importantly their synergy with Burst Heals, inadvertently buffing Sorcerer as they are the only class without a stand-alone burst heal, and the least likely to suffer from this change while nerfing egregious offenders like Dragonknight, Warden, and Nightblade as they are the most guilty of Ice Staff blocked burst heals.
I hear so much complaining about things overperforming, and underperforming… buff Sorc, nerf DK, yet here we have a solution that does both of those things and it’s not adequate?
Okay so let's say unblockable single target melee executes are implemented. You go into Cyrodiil and encounter a templar with Jesus beam and a Nb with Killer's Blade. Jesus Beam is blockable but undodgable, and Killer's Blade is unblockable but dodgable.
What exactly do you propose the player do in this situation? I'm sure you've 1vXed before, so please tell me your thoughts on this.
You line of sight, this game isn’t balanced for 1vX.
ESO LoS is the biggest cheat code I’ve ever seen in any game.
But LoS requires you to be fast to reach the line of sight faster and have enough time to recover before your enemies approach.
How can you get to line of sight quickly when Jesus Beam is undodgable, forcing you to hold block which reduces your movement speed? Then the NB comes and executes you through your block because it's unblockable. You literally have no option but death.
You already have no option but death when fighting any decent ball group, look no further than the countless proc sets available.
Avoiding proper answers to problems in the fear of unbalancing 1vX, when it’s already in nature imbalanced and incapable of being balanced…
… is something I can’t quite get behind.
When you go out looking to be outnumbered, you’re embracing the challenge, adding more to it only increases your glory when you pull it off.
I didn't say ball group. I said a templar and a NB, a 1v2. It's a very survivable situation, but making melee executes unblockable will remove the option to survive.
1vX is not really imbalanced. You're just going against a bunch of players less experienced than you. It's like pitting Lebron against 3 high schoolers. He's obviously going to win a 1v3. Players should be rewarded for putting in time and effort to hone their skills, and 1vXing is one of those rewards. Obviously winning a 1v3 vs newbies isn't really interesting, but when it's a 1v5, 1v6, or even 1v7, the fight becomes rewarding in itself.
When I go out looking for outnumbered fights, I don't complain about dying. But when there's broken things that are clearly imbalanced and amplified in an outnumbered fight like fighting someone with 3 proc sets, heavy attack builds that can do 20k dmg, or undodgable/unblockable ranged executes, then I'm going to complain lol.
Understandable where the concern would be, I think you’re overestimating the impact that the change would have, because Killer’s Blade gets next-to-zero playtime in PvP due to every other ability on Nightblade’s kit doing so much, and Executioner will always come from a Two-Hander, so it would be rather easy to see someone coming at you with one and to change up the battle plan accordingly.
When I’m fighting certain classes, there are Health thresholds I will NEVER go past. Like Templar for example, I will never hover around 30% if I can help it, for Nightblade I make it a point to keep my health above 75% with constant HoTs. There are certain rules you adhere to based on knowing your build’s limitations.
Regardless of execute abilities, If groups or players are getting you into execute, it doesn’t matter what you’re doing, you’re going to die one of those times. All it takes is a spammable and burst ability not even having to crit… regardless of Stage 3.0 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭@StaticWave just wanted to say thanks for our discussion a few weeks back about sets, it sat in the back of my mind and when I got cheesed down by a Vate Ice Staff Serpent’s Disdain DK blockcasting everything I finally got the motivation to get around to updating my Stamplar and jumped into vDreadsail Reef and swapped CA out for Coral Riptide and have to say best decision I’ve made,
When you get used to cruising around 30% Stamina, possible with it’s synergy with NMA & Stage 3 increased costs, it turns into a never ending Clever Alchemist proc.
If you haven’t tried the set out, I highly recommend it.
Especially on a Sorc with Crit Surge.Edited by The_Titan_Tim on March 13, 2023 6:30AM0 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The_Titan_Tim wrote: »@StaticWave just wanted to say thanks for our discussion a few weeks back about sets, it sat in the back of my mind and when I got cheesed down by a Vate Ice Staff Serpent’s Disdain DK blockcasting everything I finally got the motivation to get around to updating my Stamplar and jumped into vDreadsail Reef and swapped CA out for Coral Riptide and have to say best decision I’ve made,
When you get used to cruising around 30% Stamina, possible with it’s synergy with NMA & Stage 3 increased costs, it turns into a never ending Clever Alchemist proc.
If you haven’t tried the set out, I highly recommend it.
Especially on a Sorc with Crit Surge.
That's amazing! I've always wanted to get Coral Riptide but I didn't have the motivation to grind it out. Maybe I'll get a group going in the near future lol. How's your sustain with it?Platform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc0 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »@StaticWave just wanted to say thanks for our discussion a few weeks back about sets, it sat in the back of my mind and when I got cheesed down by a Vate Ice Staff Serpent’s Disdain DK blockcasting everything I finally got the motivation to get around to updating my Stamplar and jumped into vDreadsail Reef and swapped CA out for Coral Riptide and have to say best decision I’ve made,
When you get used to cruising around 30% Stamina, possible with it’s synergy with NMA & Stage 3 increased costs, it turns into a never ending Clever Alchemist proc.
If you haven’t tried the set out, I highly recommend it.
Especially on a Sorc with Crit Surge.
That's amazing! I've always wanted to get Coral Riptide but I didn't have the motivation to grind it out. Maybe I'll get a group going in the near future lol. How's your sustain with it?
StamPlar has been relegated to D-Swing, so pretty well. Uppercut and Power of the Light cost almost nothing which works great for keeping your resources around that percentage allowing for an easy 700 free damage. The crit chance stacks synergize great with the 10% free crit damage of Plar.
If your stam gets too high, Camo Hunter works great to lower your stamina when you weave it into Roll-Dodges to push your stam down, giving it an entirely new use outside of Stealth Pulling and passives.
It’s a balancing act for sure, but when you master it, the set is unrivaled.Edited by The_Titan_Tim on March 13, 2023 7:27AM0 -
adamsmith42✭✭✭✭DeathStalker wrote: »DeathStalker wrote: »As someone at the bottom of the damage numbers, all I can say is... pretty disappointing. When are we at the bottom going to be remembered? When are we going to be able to feel strong and not struggle? Light attack weaving and animation canceling should not be mandatory to clear content except for things like the hardest dungeons and trials. My hands hurt so much and get so stiff trying to do all the movements needed to do damage. So disappointing. Forgotten. Unimportant. Maybe one day people like me can play and feel strong and powerful but it doesn't seem to be anytime soon.
What?
Do you ever heard of oakensoul heavy attack builds? You can parse over 80k literally just pressing mouse button e using ultimate when ready.
The people at "bottom of damage numbers" never had a such favorable spot for doing good damage ever before
Those 80k builds are lies to those at the bottom. Every time you see one they are wearing end-game gear that those at the bottom can't get. take off all end-game gear, monster sets, and everything that a beginner or someone who can't run dungeons and trails doesn't have and the numbers you will see are way lower than 80k. WAY LOWER.
What? Endgame gear?? Aside from the possible argument that Oakensoul is endgame gear... the meta for HA Sorcs is Sergeant's Mail and Storm Master... both from base game dungeons that only need to be run in normal (Wayrest Sewers and Tempest Island) and a one-piece Slimecraw comes from Wayrest as well (or Kra'gah if you need a bit more pen from Fungal Grotto I, literally the first dungeon in the game)... those vet dungeons are about as difficult as some normal dlcs... you don't even need to go into a 12 man trial to get these sets, and can hit 95k on a trial dummy with them if you cast a skill between each heavy (pets, wall and crystal frags when it procs) ... in fact, the other options in place of Storm Master (Noble Duelist, Undaunted Infiltrator and Undaunted Unweaver also are all from base game dungeons. You can easily farm these through the dungeon queue with minimal effort, even if you aren't doing much dps before you have them, the dungeons are easy enough that the group will get you through, and once you have them you will be able to do basically anything other than vet dlc hard modes without aggravating your arthritis.Edited by adamsmith42 on March 13, 2023 9:21AM4 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »
Well that is garbage, especially considering I am block casting a 12K heal in pvp.
But you have 40k hp lol… it’s definitely not garbage.
it is not even worth wasting a GCD on.adamsmith42 wrote: »DeathStalker wrote: »DeathStalker wrote: »As someone at the bottom of the damage numbers, all I can say is... pretty disappointing. When are we at the bottom going to be remembered? When are we going to be able to feel strong and not struggle? Light attack weaving and animation canceling should not be mandatory to clear content except for things like the hardest dungeons and trials. My hands hurt so much and get so stiff trying to do all the movements needed to do damage. So disappointing. Forgotten. Unimportant. Maybe one day people like me can play and feel strong and powerful but it doesn't seem to be anytime soon.
What?
Do you ever heard of oakensoul heavy attack builds? You can parse over 80k literally just pressing mouse button e using ultimate when ready.
The people at "bottom of damage numbers" never had a such favorable spot for doing good damage ever before
Those 80k builds are lies to those at the bottom. Every time you see one they are wearing end-game gear that those at the bottom can't get. take off all end-game gear, monster sets, and everything that a beginner or someone who can't run dungeons and trails doesn't have and the numbers you will see are way lower than 80k. WAY LOWER.
What? Endgame gear?? Aside from the possible argument that Oakensoul is endgame gear... the meta for HA Sorcs is Sergeant's Mail and Storm Master... both from base game dungeons that only need to be run in normal (Wayrest Sewers and Tempest Island) and a one-piece Slimecraw comes from Wayrest as well (or Kra'gah if you need a bit more pen from Fungal Grotto I, literally the first dungeon in the game)... those vet dungeons are about as difficult as some normal dlcs... you don't even need to go into a 12 man trial to get these sets, and can hit 95k on a trial dummy with them if you cast a skill between each heavy (pets, wall and crystal frags when it procs) ... in fact, the other options in place of Storm Master (Noble Duelist, Undaunted Infiltrator and Undaunted Unweaver also are all from base game dungeons. You can easily farm these through the dungeon queue with minimal effort, even if you aren't doing much dps before you have them, the dungeons are easy enough that the group will get you through, and once you have them you will be able to do basically anything other than vet dlc hard modes without aggravating your arthritis.
I think he means the top passing builds (130K ish) are wearing endgame trials gear, which probably 50% or more of pve population doesn't have. Hard for new players to start endgame content when the groups all want you have an existing completion achievement as a prerequisite.
0 -
TechMaybeHic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Welp; A few minutes in and I see empowering chain DKs with Rush of Agony, corrosive, spamming brawler. This is fine.5 -
acastanza_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TechMaybeHic wrote: »Welp; A few minutes in and I see empowering chain DKs with Rush of Agony, corrosive, spamming brawler. This is fine.
Yup, who would have thunk it, the exact changes we repeatedly told ZOS were bad for the game, are *surprise, surprise* bad for the game.6 -
ForumBully✭✭✭✭✭
✭acastanza_ESO wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »Welp; A few minutes in and I see empowering chain DKs with Rush of Agony, corrosive, spamming brawler. This is fine.
Yup, who would have thunk it, the exact changes we repeatedly told ZOS were bad for the game, are *surprise, surprise* bad for the game.
I'm sure after a year or so of careful observation they'll arrive at the same conclusion.8 -
FeedbackOnly✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why is sorcerer only good at dps... because the other class has better group play aka buffs and debuffs.
Increase the penetration debuff so it's usable in more than just stamina sorcerers0
