PTS Update 37 - Feedback Thread for Combat & Classes

StaticWave

@gariondavey

This is the shield value with Bastion CP at 40k HP:

TechMaybeHic

StaticWave wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

So ZOS, what Magicka skill is getting Major Berserk added to it so Magicka specs can compete with Stamina specs that can now get 100% uptime on Breserk with no effort? Or are we only allowed to play Stamina this patch @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_Gilliam?

Wrecking Blow is pretty bad tho...

Thought they fixed the targeting this PTS so it would maybe be like Dizzy with just a different effect?

katorga

StaticWave wrote: »

@gariondavey

This is the shield value with Bastion CP at 40k HP:

Well that is garbage, especially considering I am block casting a 12K heal in pvp.

StaticWave

katorga wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

@gariondavey

This is the shield value with Bastion CP at 40k HP:

Well that is garbage, especially considering I am block casting a 12K heal in pvp.

But you have 40k hp lol… it’s definitely not garbage.

Katlefiya

StaticWave wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

@gariondavey

This is the shield value with Bastion CP at 40k HP:

Well that is garbage, especially considering I am block casting a 12K heal in pvp.

But you have 40k hp lol… it’s definitely not garbage.

So even with 40k hp and Bastion CP (not working in BGs) it only provides a damage shield that is still smaller than a block-casted heal while battle spirit is active? And it costs ~4K Magicka to apply? Sounds pretty awful to me.

StaticWave

Katlefiya wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

@gariondavey

This is the shield value with Bastion CP at 40k HP:

Well that is garbage, especially considering I am block casting a 12K heal in pvp.

But you have 40k hp lol… it’s definitely not garbage.

So even with 40k hp and Bastion CP (not working in BGs) it only provides a damage shield that is still smaller than a block-casted heal while battle spirit is active? And it costs ~4K Magicka to apply? Sounds pretty awful to me.

Yes, the shield should still be slightly smaller. What did you expect? A 13k shield with 40k HP? You might as well become a tank at that point.

At 40k HP you’re already very safe from most burst damage. Adding a 10k shield over that would be the icing on the cake.

And let’s say you don’t use shields, then you’re still safe from most damage because 40k HP lol. I play a 40k HP stamsorc and I can sit and face tank a DK with no shield. Imagine if I had a 10k shield. I’d be unkillable.

ForumBully

Katlefiya wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

@gariondavey

This is the shield value with Bastion CP at 40k HP:

Well that is garbage, especially considering I am block casting a 12K heal in pvp.

But you have 40k hp lol… it’s definitely not garbage.

So even with 40k hp and Bastion CP (not working in BGs) it only provides a damage shield that is still smaller than a block-casted heal while battle spirit is active? And it costs ~4K Magicka to apply? Sounds pretty awful to me.

The health change and slight shield buff this cycle is better than expect IMO. Running 40k health 30k Mag and the same spell power on PTS that I have on live, plus a slightly larger shield, is a fairly decent buff.
Compare that to what Templar and Necro got this update...nothing and the middle finger respectively.
I got stuff I'd like to see done with the passives, but mag Sorc didn't come away empty handed here, I'm even a little excited for the change to go live.

gariondavey

ForumBully wrote: »

Katlefiya wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

@gariondavey

This is the shield value with Bastion CP at 40k HP:

Well that is garbage, especially considering I am block casting a 12K heal in pvp.

But you have 40k hp lol… it’s definitely not garbage.

So even with 40k hp and Bastion CP (not working in BGs) it only provides a damage shield that is still smaller than a block-casted heal while battle spirit is active? And it costs ~4K Magicka to apply? Sounds pretty awful to me.

The health change and slight shield buff this cycle is better than expect IMO. Running 40k health 30k Mag and the same spell power on PTS that I have on live, plus a slightly larger shield, is a fairly decent buff.
Compare that to what Templar and Necro got this update...nothing and the middle finger respectively.
I got stuff I'd like to see done with the passives, but mag Sorc didn't come away empty handed here, I'm even a little excited for the change to go live.

There are a few mag sorcs around here who can't see the simple truth of what you just said
Amen about templar and necro

Araneae6537

Trinotops wrote: »

Honestly, pretty disappointing.

• Templars get no buffs and are still just beam bots.
• Necros had the one thing going for them taken away (bombing) and nothing was given in return such as a reliable stun, better spammable, class access to Major Brutality/Sorcery.
• Harmony change is boring and negatively affects more fringe synergies like Lady Thorn.
• Haven't tested it, but the Bloodthirsty trait was already in a good spot. The buff seems unnecessary.
• Sorcs get a measly buff to their shield, which is better than nothing I guess, but the class would've benefited way more from things like Major/Minor buffs or debuffs attached to their abilities, a reliable burst heal, better pets in PvP.
• Nightblades still have a ridiculously overloaded class kit.
• No change to the Vampire Undeath passive.

I agree that templar, necro, and sorc need improvements. I think DK and NB are good, although I don’t think DK needed a further buff. I don’t think the vampire undeath passive should be changed unless the penalties for being a vampire are also reduced. Right now I don’t feel that vampire offers much to any build outside of PvP stealth.

Turtle_Bot

ForumBully wrote: »

Katlefiya wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

@gariondavey

This is the shield value with Bastion CP at 40k HP:

Well that is garbage, especially considering I am block casting a 12K heal in pvp.

But you have 40k hp lol… it’s definitely not garbage.

So even with 40k hp and Bastion CP (not working in BGs) it only provides a damage shield that is still smaller than a block-casted heal while battle spirit is active? And it costs ~4K Magicka to apply? Sounds pretty awful to me.

The health change and slight shield buff this cycle is better than expect IMO. Running 40k health 30k Mag and the same spell power on PTS that I have on live, plus a slightly larger shield, is a fairly decent buff.
Compare that to what Templar and Necro got this update...nothing and the middle finger respectively.
I got stuff I'd like to see done with the passives, but mag Sorc didn't come away empty handed here, I'm even a little excited for the change to go live.

My main issue with the changes was that it was a short term band-aid solution that's likely only going to get reverted (or nerfed harder) in the following patch without fixing the class's underlying issues.

I guess I shouldn't have expected anything else though considering band aids is all we get currently (unless you're a DK or a NB)

Turtle_Bot

StaticWave wrote: »

Katlefiya wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

@gariondavey

This is the shield value with Bastion CP at 40k HP:

Well that is garbage, especially considering I am block casting a 12K heal in pvp.

But you have 40k hp lol… it’s definitely not garbage.

So even with 40k hp and Bastion CP (not working in BGs) it only provides a damage shield that is still smaller than a block-casted heal while battle spirit is active? And it costs ~4K Magicka to apply? Sounds pretty awful to me.

Yes, the shield should still be slightly smaller. What did you expect? A 13k shield with 40k HP? You might as well become a tank at that point.

At 40k HP you’re already very safe from most burst damage. Adding a 10k shield over that would be the icing on the cake.

And let’s say you don’t use shields, then you’re still safe from most damage because 40k HP lol. I play a 40k HP stamsorc and I can sit and face tank a DK with no shield. Imagine if I had a 10k shield. I’d be unkillable.

this issue is difficult to balance, probably why it's so heavily debated.

The issue when comparing the 2 is that block casting heals, while not giving you that initial max health threshold that shields grant, does grant potentially over 98% damage mitigation.
That becomes a huge difference maker since having that block mitigation, since that mitigation would be the equivalent of having a separate damage shield on you that takes each damage instance on you and essentially applies a shield value equal to 98% of that damage instances damage value while you are casting your heals/HoTs are ticking and can apply this to as many instances of damage as required during that same 1 GCD period it takes to recast a damage shield.

The difference becomes extremely noticeable since shields only get armor mitigation and not block mitigation and armor mitigation caps out at around 50%. Meaning that by using shields instead of block heals you get 1 shield that has 50% mitigation, but that 1 shield has to protect you for all incoming instances of damage within that GCD instead of being able to block all damage instances separately no matter how many occur during that same GCD period.

TL//DR: if we account for block mitigation when healing up (which is a very common scenario) and apply that logic to shields, blocking is essentially the equivalent of having an uncapped damage shield up that drains stamina per second for each time it takes a hit for you while you heal up with your magicka, or shielding is the equivalent of having a 50% block mitigation cap while casting heals but also has a hard cap on how much total damage it can absorb as well as the 50% mitigation cap.

So for your example of 40k health with a 10k shield, that would the equivalent to another class having 50k health and a 10k heal over 6 seconds, but they have no additional block mitigation while they have that HoT ticking or until they take over 10k damage within that duration.

Maybe they could implement a partial block mitigation value for shields, if you're blocking while you have a damage shield up, it applies blocks additional mitigation at say 40% value, this way shields can last a bit longer but still won't reach the full potential that block casting heals can reach.
Either way, block casting heals is just far stronger than any damage shield can reach currently, unless we buff damage shields to ridiculous values or change the way they work entirely.

P.s. I'm not going to get into roll cancelling healing, that just gets too complicated with all the factors involved.

StaticWave

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

this issue is difficult to balance, probably why it's so heavily debated.

The issue when comparing the 2 is that block casting heals, while not giving you that initial max health threshold that shields grant, does grant potentially over 98% damage mitigation.
That becomes a huge difference maker since having that block mitigation, since that mitigation would be the equivalent of having a separate damage shield on you that takes each damage instance on you and essentially applies a shield value equal to 98% of that damage instances damage value while you are casting your heals/HoTs are ticking and can apply this to as many instances of damage as required during that same 1 GCD period it takes to recast a damage shield.

The difference becomes extremely noticeable since shields only get armor mitigation and not block mitigation and armor mitigation caps out at around 50%. Meaning that by using shields instead of block heals you get 1 shield that has 50% mitigation, but that 1 shield has to protect you for all incoming instances of damage within that GCD instead of being able to block all damage instances separately no matter how many occur during that same GCD period.

In a normal scenario I would most likely agree with you, but because this is specifically about the 40k HP sorc with a 10k shield screenshot I posted that I would have to disagree. At 40k HP on the live server with only Vigor, Surge, Dark Deal, and block mitigation, I can still sit and semi-face tank a DK. This is something every magsorc can do as we essentially share the same abilities if a magsorc decides to slot Vigor.

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

TL//DR: if we account for block mitigation when healing up (which is a very common scenario) and apply that logic to shields, blocking is essentially the equivalent of having an uncapped damage shield up that drains stamina per second for each time it takes a hit for you while you heal up with your magicka, or shielding is the equivalent of having a 50% block mitigation cap while casting heals but also has a hard cap on how much total damage it can absorb as well as the 50% mitigation cap.

There are too many variables to make an accurate comparison. Blocking also reduces your movement speed and essentially turns you into a turtle, while shield does not. Blocking also cuts off your stam sustain, while shielding does not. I would 100% choose blocking over shielding in a brawl where I don't need to move around as much, but I would 100% choose shielding over blocking if I'm a super mobile hit-and-run class.

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

So for your example of 40k health with a 10k shield, that would the equivalent to another class having 50k health and a 10k heal over 6 seconds, but they have no additional block mitigation while they have that HoT ticking or until they take over 10k damage within that duration.

A 40k HP class with a 10k shield can reapply the shield instantly to prevent its actual HP from taking damage. To do that on a 50k HP class with a 10k HoT over 6 seconds, you would 100% need to block/roll dodge.

For example if I can deal 8k single target damage and 2k DoT every 1 second to the player with a shield, he can reapply it instantly every 1 GCD to prevent his HP from taking damage. Meanwhile, the same guy with a 10k HoT will have to block/roll dodge. Yes, the guy spamming shield will drain his magicka stupidly fast, but the guy spamming roll dodge/block will also drain his stamina stupidly fast, and if we use your comparison of not having additional block mitigation while the HoT is ticking, then the stamina cost is going to be massive as it doubles.

This is why I've stated many times that shield is better at some scenarios and healing is better at some scenarios. A real fight has too many variables for us to make an accurate comparison.

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Maybe they could implement a partial block mitigation value for shields, if you're blocking while you have a damage shield up, it applies blocks additional mitigation at say 40% value, this way shields can last a bit longer but still won't reach the full potential that block casting heals can reach.
Either way, block casting heals is just far stronger than any damage shield can reach currently, unless we buff damage shields to ridiculous values or change the way they work entirely.

I would be ok with a 20% block mitigation for shields. Or, we could nerf block healing because it has honestly been too strong for too many patches.

The_Titan_Tim

@ZOS_Kevin & @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Suggestion for Killer’s Blade and Executioner (Single Target Execute Abilities)

Currently Radiant Destruction and Whirling Blades are working great at being used to finish players off, as they are undodgeable. Counterplay to these executes is blocking, and healing.

Killer’s Blade and Executioner are both dodgeable and blockable. One way that these abilities could reach a place of comparative use, would be making them unblockable, as they are currently dodgeable.

Blockcasting within this game has reached a point of minimal counterability, I believe this change would help to level the playing field by bringing abilities up to par with their counterparts.

gariondavey

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin & @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Suggestion for Killer’s Blade and Executioner (Single Target Execute Abilities)

Currently Radiant Destruction and Whirling Blades are working great at being used to finish players off, as they are undodgeable. Counterplay to these executes is blocking, and healing.

Killer’s Blade and Executioner are both dodgeable and blockable. One way that these abilities could reach a place of comparative use, would be making them unblockable, as they are currently dodgeable.

Blockcasting within this game has reached a point of minimal counterability, I believe this change would help to level the playing field by bringing abilities up to par with their counterparts.

As someone who uses both of these abilities....please no. That would be absurdly op.

The_Titan_Tim

gariondavey wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin & @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Suggestion for Killer’s Blade and Executioner (Single Target Execute Abilities)

Currently Radiant Destruction and Whirling Blades are working great at being used to finish players off, as they are undodgeable. Counterplay to these executes is blocking, and healing.

Killer’s Blade and Executioner are both dodgeable and blockable. One way that these abilities could reach a place of comparative use, would be making them unblockable, as they are currently dodgeable.

Blockcasting within this game has reached a point of minimal counterability, I believe this change would help to level the playing field by bringing abilities up to par with their counterparts.

As someone who uses both of these abilities....please no. That would be absurdly op.

Executes are supposed to be OP when your opponent is low Health. You’re sacrificing an entire ability slot just to have it on your bar.

Right now there is zero counter to block casting in a 1v1 scenario. Sustain damaging sets don’t perform enough, and are purgeable, hard CCs don’t give you a free cast of an execute, so your opponent gets up blocking and spamming a burst heal…

If you were to try to name on one hand, how many players run Killer’s Blade in PvP, you’d have a hard time. It doesn’t compare to Whirling Blades or Radiant Destruction.

If you put Whirling Blades next to Executioner, 9/10 players would choose Whirling Blades as you can’t dodge it, there’s a 50% chance your opponent will block instead of roll dodge in execute, there’s a 100% chance your opponent will either block or roll dodge, completely eliminating Executioner and Killer’s Blade from their designated role.

StaticWave

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin & @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Suggestion for Killer’s Blade and Executioner (Single Target Execute Abilities)

Currently Radiant Destruction and Whirling Blades are working great at being used to finish players off, as they are undodgeable. Counterplay to these executes is blocking, and healing.

Killer’s Blade and Executioner are both dodgeable and blockable. One way that these abilities could reach a place of comparative use, would be making them unblockable, as they are currently dodgeable.

Blockcasting within this game has reached a point of minimal counterability, I believe this change would help to level the playing field by bringing abilities up to par with their counterparts.

As someone who uses both of these abilities....please no. That would be absurdly op.

Executes are supposed to be OP when your opponent is low Health. You’re sacrificing an entire ability slot just to have it on your bar.

Right now there is zero counter to block casting in a 1v1 scenario. Sustain damaging sets don’t perform enough, and are purgeable, hard CCs don’t give you a free cast of an execute, so your opponent gets up blocking and spamming a burst heal…

If you were to try to name on one hand, how many players run Killer’s Blade in PvP, you’d have a hard time. It doesn’t compare to Whirling Blades or Radiant Destruction.

If you put Whirling Blades next to Executioner, 9/10 players would choose Whirling Blades as you can’t dodge it, there’s a 50% chance your opponent will block instead of roll dodge in execute, there’s a 100% chance your opponent will either block or roll dodge, completely eliminating Executioner and Killer’s Blade from their designated role.

I actually only use Whirling Blades because the tooltip is within a tolerable amount to be used as a semi spammable.

TechMaybeHic

I've seen whirling blades dodges or just moved out of.

Either way; those 2 executes are already fine. Don't need buffs. Not sure why we are trying to fix things that are not broken

The_Titan_Tim

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

I've seen whirling blades dodges or just moved out of.

Either way; those 2 executes are already fine. Don't need buffs. Not sure why we are trying to fix things that are not broken

They’re not fine. They aren’t killing people. Executes work best when they are a 50/50.

Blockcasting is broken, so instead of taking everyone’s toy from them, you create a counter.

We can quite literally build against everything else, they have three abilities and entire potions specifically designed to pull Nightblade out of stealth. Unblockable CCs don’t guarantee an execute, so you find a way to guarantee them.

TechMaybeHic

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

I've seen whirling blades dodges or just moved out of.

Either way; those 2 executes are already fine. Don't need buffs. Not sure why we are trying to fix things that are not broken

They’re not fine. They aren’t killing people. Executes work best when they are a 50/50.

Blockcasting is broken, so instead of taking everyone’s toy from them, you create a counter.

They kill people all the time. I'm not sure what you're on about. The single target executables already scale more and are therefore better on blocking targets including vamp stage 3. I only use the AOE version in group play, and even then, I still like the 2her one that executes around the target as you get in range on activate, and it lands. The full execute DW one is short range and people literally just walk out of it. I think sorcs might use the one with a larger radius with higher initial damage but it scales much less.

The_Titan_Tim

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

I've seen whirling blades dodges or just moved out of.

Either way; those 2 executes are already fine. Don't need buffs. Not sure why we are trying to fix things that are not broken

They’re not fine. They aren’t killing people. Executes work best when they are a 50/50.

Blockcasting is broken, so instead of taking everyone’s toy from them, you create a counter.

They kill people all the time. I'm not sure what you're on about.

I haven’t died to a Killer’s Blade since 2016 on any build, and when Executioner kills me, it’s because the ability is timed with a burst, where if they substituted it for Uppercut, it would have yielded the same result.

I’m speaking from a place of high APM.
As someone who duels for hours almost daily with some of the sweatiest players on XB/NA.

You’re not hitting me with those abilities unless you Off-Balance Stun me leading into them…

Something impossible if I’m rolling or blocking.

The_Titan_Tim

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

I've seen whirling blades dodges or just moved out of.

Either way; those 2 executes are already fine. Don't need buffs. Not sure why we are trying to fix things that are not broken

They’re not fine. They aren’t killing people. Executes work best when they are a 50/50.

Blockcasting is broken, so instead of taking everyone’s toy from them, you create a counter.

They kill people all the time. I'm not sure what you're on about. The single target executables already scale more and are therefore better on blocking targets including vamp stage 3. I only use the AOE version in group play, and even then, I still like the 2her one that executes around the target as you get in range on activate, and it lands. The full execute DW one is short range and people literally just walk out of it. I think sorcs might use the one with a larger radius with higher initial damage but it scales much less.

Reverse Slice is fine, it’s an AoE.
That’s why I’m specifically referring to Executioner.

When you’re playing into it, people won’t just walk out of your Whirling Blades, you want to have your character almost on top of your opponent when going for the kill, it definitely works, and is one of the most complained about abilities when combined with Soul Tether.

TechMaybeHic

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

I've seen whirling blades dodges or just moved out of.

Either way; those 2 executes are already fine. Don't need buffs. Not sure why we are trying to fix things that are not broken

They’re not fine. They aren’t killing people. Executes work best when they are a 50/50.

Blockcasting is broken, so instead of taking everyone’s toy from them, you create a counter.

They kill people all the time. I'm not sure what you're on about.

I haven’t died to a Killer’s Blade since 2016 on any build, and when Executioner kills me, it’s because the ability is timed with a burst, where if they substituted it for Uppercut, it would have yielded the same result.

I’m speaking from a place of high APM.
As someone who duels for hours almost daily with some of the sweatiest players on XB/NA.

You’re not hitting me with those abilities unless you Off-Balance Stun me leading into them…

Something impossible if I’m rolling or blocking.

I can't take you seriously if you say an uppercut can do it. The best past of executioner is that you follow an uppercut and it goes off immediately after the uppercut because the GCD starts at activation of the uppercut. Yes; you combo it...

And should we discuss the scaling of those AOE ones with undeath and major evasion? Hey; but let's buff NB And I right?

TechMaybeHic

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

I've seen whirling blades dodges or just moved out of.

Either way; those 2 executes are already fine. Don't need buffs. Not sure why we are trying to fix things that are not broken

They’re not fine. They aren’t killing people. Executes work best when they are a 50/50.

Blockcasting is broken, so instead of taking everyone’s toy from them, you create a counter.

They kill people all the time. I'm not sure what you're on about. The single target executables already scale more and are therefore better on blocking targets including vamp stage 3. I only use the AOE version in group play, and even then, I still like the 2her one that executes around the target as you get in range on activate, and it lands. The full execute DW one is short range and people literally just walk out of it. I think sorcs might use the one with a larger radius with higher initial damage but it scales much less.

Reverse Slice is fine, it’s an AoE.
That’s why I’m specifically referring to Executioner.

Yes, the best single target execute in-game and you want to buff it...

The_Titan_Tim

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

I've seen whirling blades dodges or just moved out of.

Either way; those 2 executes are already fine. Don't need buffs. Not sure why we are trying to fix things that are not broken

They’re not fine. They aren’t killing people. Executes work best when they are a 50/50.

Blockcasting is broken, so instead of taking everyone’s toy from them, you create a counter.

They kill people all the time. I'm not sure what you're on about.

I haven’t died to a Killer’s Blade since 2016 on any build, and when Executioner kills me, it’s because the ability is timed with a burst, where if they substituted it for Uppercut, it would have yielded the same result.

I’m speaking from a place of high APM.
As someone who duels for hours almost daily with some of the sweatiest players on XB/NA.

You’re not hitting me with those abilities unless you Off-Balance Stun me leading into them…

Something impossible if I’m rolling or blocking.

I can't take you seriously if you say an uppercut can do it. The best past of executioner is that you follow an uppercut and it goes off immediately after the uppercut because the GCD starts at activation of the uppercut. Yes; you combo it...

And should we discuss the scaling of those AOE ones with undeath and major evasion? Hey; but let's buff NB And I right?

If they provided the same functionality to Executioner, it wouldn’t be a “Nightblade” buff, it would be a well rounded buff for anyone using a melee single target execute.

If you’re hitting someone that is both not blocking and not dodging under 30% Health, how would any burst move combined with an uppercut not kill your target? Should I be taking you seriously?

The_Titan_Tim

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

I've seen whirling blades dodges or just moved out of.

Either way; those 2 executes are already fine. Don't need buffs. Not sure why we are trying to fix things that are not broken

They’re not fine. They aren’t killing people. Executes work best when they are a 50/50.

Blockcasting is broken, so instead of taking everyone’s toy from them, you create a counter.

They kill people all the time. I'm not sure what you're on about. The single target executables already scale more and are therefore better on blocking targets including vamp stage 3. I only use the AOE version in group play, and even then, I still like the 2her one that executes around the target as you get in range on activate, and it lands. The full execute DW one is short range and people literally just walk out of it. I think sorcs might use the one with a larger radius with higher initial damage but it scales much less.

Reverse Slice is fine, it’s an AoE.
That’s why I’m specifically referring to Executioner.

Yes, the best single target execute in-game and you want to buff it...

What class do you play? Do you use a sword and shield or ice staff?

ForumBully

It's not really a large field when we're talking about executes...I almost always use Executioner when using 2h...same with Whirling and DW...apart from Templar, I don't really use class executes, but just saying it that way seems like it's a lot of skills in the dust, but really it's only 2. NB and Sorc.

I don't use Killers Blade as I find it less reliable than the 2h or DW executes and I'm usually using one of those options for weapons, same with Stamsorc (the weapon line executes are just better).
I think Wrath could be better for MagSorcs, maybe with an added DOT component, but it's not a bad skill.

The_Titan_Tim

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

I've seen whirling blades dodges or just moved out of.

Either way; those 2 executes are already fine. Don't need buffs. Not sure why we are trying to fix things that are not broken

They’re not fine. They aren’t killing people. Executes work best when they are a 50/50.

Blockcasting is broken, so instead of taking everyone’s toy from them, you create a counter.

They kill people all the time. I'm not sure what you're on about. The single target executables already scale more and are therefore better on blocking targets including vamp stage 3. I only use the AOE version in group play, and even then, I still like the 2her one that executes around the target as you get in range on activate, and it lands. The full execute DW one is short range and people literally just walk out of it. I think sorcs might use the one with a larger radius with higher initial damage but it scales much less.

Reverse Slice is fine, it’s an AoE.
That’s why I’m specifically referring to Executioner.

Yes, the best single target execute in-game and you want to buff it...

Radiant Destruction? 😂

TechMaybeHic

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

I've seen whirling blades dodges or just moved out of.

Either way; those 2 executes are already fine. Don't need buffs. Not sure why we are trying to fix things that are not broken

They’re not fine. They aren’t killing people. Executes work best when they are a 50/50.

Blockcasting is broken, so instead of taking everyone’s toy from them, you create a counter.

They kill people all the time. I'm not sure what you're on about.

I haven’t died to a Killer’s Blade since 2016 on any build, and when Executioner kills me, it’s because the ability is timed with a burst, where if they substituted it for Uppercut, it would have yielded the same result.

I’m speaking from a place of high APM.
As someone who duels for hours almost daily with some of the sweatiest players on XB/NA.

You’re not hitting me with those abilities unless you Off-Balance Stun me leading into them…

Something impossible if I’m rolling or blocking.

I can't take you seriously if you say an uppercut can do it. The best past of executioner is that you follow an uppercut and it goes off immediately after the uppercut because the GCD starts at activation of the uppercut. Yes; you combo it...

And should we discuss the scaling of those AOE ones with undeath and major evasion? Hey; but let's buff NB And I right?

If they provided the same functionality to Executioner, it wouldn’t be a “Nightblade” buff, it would be a well rounded buff for anyone using a melee single target execute.

If you’re hitting someone that is both not blocking and not dodging under 30% Health, how would any burst move combined with an uppercut not kill your target? Should I be taking you seriously?

They just buffed one NB execute to match executioner scaling and the other to always do it's modifiers at 25% if I recall. Yes, they are all dodgeable but they have 5ge higher modifiers. There are shortcomings for all of them as there should be. including the whirling blades target less being moved out of by faster targets, or the bashable Radiant Oppression

How are you comboing an uppercut as the last move in the combo given it's channel? That's backwards. If you use uppercut, it's before the executioner. Uppercut can land with a medium and executioner in a very rapid succession.

TechMaybeHic

ForumBully wrote: »

It's not really a large field when we're talking about executes...I almost always use Executioner when using 2h...same with Whirling and DW...apart from Templar, I don't really use class executes, but just saying it that way seems like it's a lot of skills in the dust, but really it's only 2. NB and Sorc.

I don't use Killers Blade as I find it less reliable than the 2h or DW executes and I'm usually using one of those options for weapons, same with Stamsorc (the weapon line executes are just better).
I think Wrath could be better for MagSorcs, maybe with an added DOT component, but it's not a bad skill.

Sorcs can be very good because it's delayed. I am baffled by the lack of considerations on GCDs here and how to make the most out of them

The_Titan_Tim

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

I've seen whirling blades dodges or just moved out of.

Either way; those 2 executes are already fine. Don't need buffs. Not sure why we are trying to fix things that are not broken

They’re not fine. They aren’t killing people. Executes work best when they are a 50/50.

Blockcasting is broken, so instead of taking everyone’s toy from them, you create a counter.

They kill people all the time. I'm not sure what you're on about.

I haven’t died to a Killer’s Blade since 2016 on any build, and when Executioner kills me, it’s because the ability is timed with a burst, where if they substituted it for Uppercut, it would have yielded the same result.

I’m speaking from a place of high APM.
As someone who duels for hours almost daily with some of the sweatiest players on XB/NA.

You’re not hitting me with those abilities unless you Off-Balance Stun me leading into them…

Something impossible if I’m rolling or blocking.

I can't take you seriously if you say an uppercut can do it. The best past of executioner is that you follow an uppercut and it goes off immediately after the uppercut because the GCD starts at activation of the uppercut. Yes; you combo it...

And should we discuss the scaling of those AOE ones with undeath and major evasion? Hey; but let's buff NB And I right?

If they provided the same functionality to Executioner, it wouldn’t be a “Nightblade” buff, it would be a well rounded buff for anyone using a melee single target execute.

If you’re hitting someone that is both not blocking and not dodging under 30% Health, how would any burst move combined with an uppercut not kill your target? Should I be taking you seriously?

They just buffed one NB execute to match executioner scaling and the other to always do it's modifiers at 25% if I recall. Yes, they are all dodgeable but they have 5ge higher modifiers. There are shortcomings for all of them as there should be. including the whirling blades target less being moved out of by faster targets, or the bashable Radiant Oppression

How are you comboing an uppercut as the last move in the combo given its channel? That's backwards. If you use uppercut, it's before the executioner. Uppercut can land with a medium and executioner in a very rapid succession.

Quite easily. Dizzying Swing creates off-balance, something you can med-weave your opponent to stun them into taking full damage from whatever ability you want, even an ultimate. Why Killer’s Blade when you can Spectral Bow someone much harder?

If Single-Target Melee executes were unblockable, the counter would be roll dodging away from your opponent, instead dodging AND/OR blocking.

Good luck killing someone blocking with Executioner or Killer’s Blade.

You skated my question though, what class do you play, and what weapons do you use?