ESO+ just lost a significant amount of value

Amottica

Elsonso wrote: »

.

Amottica wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

1. They already said it will not have the same amount of quests. Their goal was to reduce handcrafted quests in favor of repeatable activities. We don't know what that activity will be, but we know there will less development time being spent on the story.

I see this as freeing up studio writing resources for New Game. Maybe not initially, as they can probably assign writers to all of the writing bugs, but going forward.

I am one of those people who thinks that many of the resources that ESO does not need get assigned to New Game, and they just announced that ESO will have less content, and probably can do with less resources.

They can and probably have hired more resources for the other game. They have been hiring for that other game for a while so this would not be a factor. If they are reducing the number of people working on ESO, even though they are still planning on producing four significant updates a year, it would be just to reduce payroll for this game, plain and simple.

New Game continues to build staffing. Obviously, some of that staff can come from inside... namely ESO. Of course, some of that migration from ESO to New Game gets backfilled and applied to ESO, but reducing content on ESO relieves the pressure to backfill.

There is no argument that personnel are added to a new project as it ramps up. Microsoft is not going to reduce how much content they create for ESO just so they can move staff to a new project. That would be one of the most absurd business moves a company could make. Doubtful that is the driving factor.

Amottica

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

So, I'll happily give them a year to try something else, content-wise. We won't see the new normal before 2024 imo.

According to the article, this will be the new normal cadence of content. They will make adjustments if it's necessary, but this is the beginning of the new normal cadence for at least a while. It's quite possible (and likely) the quality of 2023 will be higher than 2024. But the current cadence is done. And this cadence predates YLS, and in fact we had a dlc story arc with the current cadence during the Daedric War arc.

Assuming the "article" is the Studio Director's Letter, that is not accurate. They clearly indicate they are abandoning the cadence we have had for the past few years and note the cadence for 2023. I do not see where they say that is the new cadence going forward.

If anything, the statement that the current cadence had limited what they can do indicates they do not want to box themselves into a fixed cadence from year to year.

I, for one, am looking forward to seeing how these changes unfold. The best story arc I have seen was Morrowind, CWC, and Summerset which I understand occurred before the current year-long story design began. This could be good for the game but we will have to see how all of this unfolds. Until then we should refrain from suggesting the sky is falling.

spartaxoxo

Amottica wrote: »

Assuming the "article" is the Studio Director's Letter, that is not accurate. They clearly indicate they are abandoning the cadence we have had for the past few years and note the cadence for 2023. I do not see where they say that is the new cadence going forward.

It's right here. This is directly from the article.

Looking back at ESO's evolution since 2014, you can see that we often shake things up, try new things, and make changes as needed. So, we will assess how this new cadence is received—both by the development team and in the community. If we have to make more adjustments, we will.

This is the new cadence for at least a little while. Obviously, we do not know if they will decide they do need to make adjustments come 2024, but we can expect this to be the new cadence for some time period.

Elsonso

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

So, I'll happily give them a year to try something else, content-wise. We won't see the new normal before 2024 imo.

According to the article, this will be the new normal cadence of content. They will make adjustments if it's necessary, but this is the beginning of the new normal cadence for at least a while. It's quite possible (and likely) the quality of 2023 will be higher than 2024. But the current cadence is done. And this cadence predates YLS, and in fact we had a dlc story arc with the current cadence during the Daedric War arc.

I will go on record right now and say that they are not done with their cadence changes.

Why? 2023 is a hybrid year. Half old. Half new. They decided to change mid-stream. The 1Q DLC is already locked. It will be on PTS in a month. The 2Q chapter is probably more than half finished and will be on PTS in April. They announced no changes to this. (Yet) The 3Q DLC is the first thing they can change without upsetting the cart. There is plenty of time to change 2024 to be what they could not do in 2023.

spartaxoxo

Elsonso wrote: »

Why? 2023 is a hybrid year. Half old. Half new. They decided to change mid-stream.

Possibly. It's also possible that they realized that the story dlc and dungeon dlc aren't selling the way they'd like and simply aren't worth the cost to produce them anymore. I mean, they gave the last two story dlc away for free. They make more money, they spend less development time on low performing items, and if they can increase the quality of what they are offering enough that consumers don't care, then it will be quite a successful decision.

wolfie1.0.

also add that imperial city dlc is also free now.

That's a total of 4 dlcs that were given out as free in various forms of rewards. That is 4/10 non chapter dlc zones. Not an unsignificant amount.

I do think you have valid concerns about this, but also that it's premature until we know more about what is exactly going to come around. It could be something that will make eso plus have more value, equal value, or less.

me_ming

spartaxoxo wrote: »

me_ming wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

me_ming wrote: »

This is false. And in case you didn't read (or chose to ignore) what veteran players have been saying on this thread, ESO+ started with only IC (which launched, I believe, a month after ESO+ was integrated in the game) and then Orsinium, November 2015. We did not get Dark Brotherhood until May of 2016.

No. It isn't. Morrowind released in 2017. It's now 2022. We have consistently been getting content every quarter in the past for the past 5 years in fairly regular release intervals.

Beyond that...

Q1 is generally Jan, Feb, March
Q2 is generally April, May, June
Q3 is generally July, August, September
Q4 is generally October, November, December



Imperial City released Q3 for 2015 (August)

Orsinium released Q4 for 2015 (November)

The following quarter goes back to Q1...

And Thieves Guild released Q1 (Mar 2016)

And Dark Brotherhood released Q2 (May 2016)

Shadows of the Hist released Q3 (August 2016}

One Tamriel released in Q4 of 2016 (October 2016)

Which is basically considered the relaunch of the game, with us getting on the current content cadence for the last 5 years in Q2 of 2017.

Q1 (released in February 2017) was just adjustments to the game and new system (housing) after what was essentially a reboot of the entire game. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Patch/2.7.5

And finally Q2 put us on the official chapter + dlc quarterly content cadence we have now.


https://bethesda.net/en/article/YAdmsTy0ISEG0YSqgOSSs/the-elder-scrolls-online-one-tamriel-launch
https://eso-hub.com/en/dlc

So while, IMP City and Orsinium came out in 2015, while TG and DB came out in 2016, they were still all within a roughly 1 year time period of quarterly releases beginning with IMP city. It just wasn't formally called chapter and dlc yet. ZOS themselves sells this content as a bundle because of that. They discount it during their year one event. Because it represents the first year-long time period of dlc content, even though it technically happened during 2 different calendar years.

https://www.thegamer.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-year-one-event/

Did they skip a bit after they started putting out true DLCs (first up being IMP city) because they had to essentially soft relaunch the whole game? Yes.

But, the pattern of releases has been remarkably consistent since 2017. And was already informally following a very similar structure since 2015.

Yes, it IS false. I mean, you outlined it yourself. Content release was never what you were used too. IC and Orsinium were still on different years. You can't just come here and say, "well, I'll group them together because that's how I want to see it". That's not how the world works. They are of different years, and were most likely not planned to go together.

I said that in the past a year of content meant we got content each quarter, and that shows we did. Regardless of how you view year one, it's how the content was released for the past 5 years. So, that is an accurate statement.

Just because DLC began in the middle of 2015, resulting in the first 4 quarters to technically fall under 2 different calendar years, that doesn't mean that isn't the first year of content. It took place over a one year time period. August 2015 to August 2016 is a 1 year time period. That the DLC system did not debut until August, resulting in it's 4 quarterly releases technically taking place in two different calendar years, doesn't change that that is a 1 year time period.

Again, the developers themselves acknowledge this and discount them all together during their year one celebration, which I linked you. So yes, the developers themselves call that their Year One content.

Yeah but the company does not plan from Aug 2015 to Aug 2016, or am I wrong on that? And yes, it does change that as a 1-year period, because IC and Orsinium are not the only changes they made in 2015. Please remember that they also made changes during that year, Tamriel Unlimited for one, being one of the major changes. The fact that they bundled those DLCs together doesn't mean the devs considered it to be 1 year. It's a marketing strategy, so they can justify it's price. Has nothing to do with them being a "Year One" content.

[snip] ESO+'s promise was for you to gain access to DLC's. And, as I have mentioned over and over again, the only time you really loose value is when you don't get to access those content, like maybe if one day they say, from here on now ESO+ won't include more XP gained, or you won't have more extra space in your bank space. Or when you can't access the game at all because there's a login bug. Which is why I am really all for them taking a break releasing content for a quarter and focus on bug fixes. And not to mention if they include new systems/features in Q3 and 4, that's even better because even if I loose access to my ESO+ I still have access to those system or feature, especially if they are base game updates.

[Edited for Baiting]

boi_anachronism_

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

My thoughts,

One side is we are getting less value, which I agree with, vs. the other side who see we are not getting less value, and they are happy about it because they don’t see less value.

All the purposed value of plus is really a gated problem that ZOS themselves have created to create value. The unlimited craft bag, extra bank space, along with extra housing room is all restricted by ZOS on purpose to sell back to the players.

It has been said that they have made more money on ESO than all the other Elder Scrolls games. Look how many different times and ways they have released Skyrim. I am sure many nice bonuses have been giving out in return for all the said success, which hey it is deserved.

Just don’t expect me to be happy they are proposing less this year for the same price vs. the last 5 years.

Quarter one, two new dungeons.

Quarter 2, new chapter. Pretty sure we will have to purchase it. Personally, I am fine with buying it,

Quarter 3, Two less dungeons just fixes and QOL improvements. Which let's be honest, it’s something they should be doing anyway. No pass here from me for doing what you should have already been doing in the first place all along. Less value.

Quarter four, no zone DLC. New system, which has been including the last several years in the chapter or DLC release in the fourth quarter. Less value.

Maybe the QOL improvements and new system will be mind-blowing great, and all our dreams come true. But I have been here long enough to know to take the annual Director letter with a huge grain of salt. It is mostly a PR letter trying to sell us hope/hype for next year and how they are going to do better and fix the game. Basically, the same letter year to year.

Me, I see less value, so auto-renew stopped. No more crowns purchased. In waiting mode. I need to see the proof now and no longer hear about the promise of it. If ZOS wants any more of my money, I need to see the value and not the promise of it.

Stay safe

Ok but the sheer amount of dev work that goes into new content is massive. The amount of fixes they need to spend time on to fix the spaghetti code is also massive. We aren't talking about fixing a quest that isn't completing or an animation. The random small bug fixes won't cut it anymore. The devs have already said in interviews that the coding to fix old content is so complex that they usually just make more and try to make sure that issue is not there from the get go because of the sheer amount of time and man power required. The team from my understanding is around 200 people. This may seem like a lot but That includes programers, testers, directors and executive staff, QA, project managers, designers, animators, 3d modelers, sound, encounter, pvp, marketing, world builders, concept artists, customer support, web designers, server support, PR and half a dozen other departments. Let's say for argument sake there are 20 evenly split departments - that's 10 people per department. That's nothing for a game this size. For the scale they are talking about multiple departments would have to be refocused. So yeah. I'll take less content for the sake of less bugs. I mean what good is more content if you crash every time you go to do that content? What use are new dungeons and trials if bugs make them unplayable? My value is increased a thousand percent by the game having reliably playable content and I would gladly forgo a year of content if it drastically improved the health of the game. If major bug fixes and qol improvements aren't made then by all means nail them to the wall but I will always be in favor of making a higher quality game as opposed to more shallow content just for the sake of it.

spartaxoxo

me_ming wrote: »

Yeah but the company does not plan from Aug 2015 to Aug 2016, or am I wrong on that? And yes, it does change that as a 1-year period, because IC and Orsinium are not the only changes they made in 2015

Imperial City was the first official dlc, so it starts with them. And they have content roadmaps a couple years in advance.

ESO+'s promise was for you to gain access to DLC's. And, as I have mentioned over and over again, the only time you really loose value is when you don't get to access those content,

Nope. You can compare what you got from one year to another year to determine if the value was the same, different, or less. Getting less stuff is a decrease in value.

Stefirex

Grega wrote: »

When you have a one-trick pony like the craft bag, the danger is that a motivated player can figure out how to do without it (as many have) and skip the subscription, or decide that yeah, they can't get along without the craft bag, but ESO+ is too expensive for just that, so bye-bye ESO.

Have definitely learned to live without it.

Vrienda wrote: »

I've had a subscription since the game required one.

This game has NEVER required a subscription. EVER!

TaSheen

Stefirex wrote: »

Vrienda wrote: »

I've had a subscription since the game required one.

This game has NEVER required a subscription. EVER!

Uh. I believe it did actually.

https://elderscrollsonline.info/news/elder-scrolls-online-becomes-buy-to-play

Arunei

Stefirex wrote: »

Grega wrote: »

When you have a one-trick pony like the craft bag, the danger is that a motivated player can figure out how to do without it (as many have) and skip the subscription, or decide that yeah, they can't get along without the craft bag, but ESO+ is too expensive for just that, so bye-bye ESO.

Have definitely learned to live without it.

Vrienda wrote: »

I've had a subscription since the game required one.

This game has NEVER required a subscription. EVER!

The game started as needing a sub just to play.

Stefirex

Arunei wrote: »

Stefirex wrote: »

Grega wrote: »

When you have a one-trick pony like the craft bag, the danger is that a motivated player can figure out how to do without it (as many have) and skip the subscription, or decide that yeah, they can't get along without the craft bag, but ESO+ is too expensive for just that, so bye-bye ESO.

Have definitely learned to live without it.

Vrienda wrote: »

I've had a subscription since the game required one.

This game has NEVER required a subscription. EVER!

The game started as needing a sub just to play.

I stand corrected. It's been so long I had forgotten, but you have to give me that Vrienda made it sound like it became a requirement, not the other way around.

spartaxoxo

Stefirex wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Stefirex wrote: »

Grega wrote: »

When you have a one-trick pony like the craft bag, the danger is that a motivated player can figure out how to do without it (as many have) and skip the subscription, or decide that yeah, they can't get along without the craft bag, but ESO+ is too expensive for just that, so bye-bye ESO.

Have definitely learned to live without it.

Vrienda wrote: »

I've had a subscription since the game required one.

This game has NEVER required a subscription. EVER!

The game started as needing a sub just to play.

I stand corrected. It's been so long I had forgotten, but you have to give me that Vrienda made it sound like it became a requirement, not the other way around.

No. Not really. I read it as she had been playing the game during the time period of required subs. But, then I knew that it was briefly a pay to play game. IIRC they ditched the fee because console would have had to pay twice. But, not totally sure as I started playing at console launch.

Amottica

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Assuming the "article" is the Studio Director's Letter, that is not accurate. They clearly indicate they are abandoning the cadence we have had for the past few years and note the cadence for 2023. I do not see where they say that is the new cadence going forward.

It's right here. This is directly from the article.

Looking back at ESO's evolution since 2014, you can see that we often shake things up, try new things, and make changes as needed. So, we will assess how this new cadence is received—both by the development team and in the community. If we have to make more adjustments, we will.

This is the new cadence for at least a little while. Obviously, we do not know if they will decide they do need to make adjustments come 2024, but we can expect this to be the new cadence for some time period.

Thx and thx for showing that they will make adjustments, as I already noted. Such a comment does indicate this is not set in stone as I was noting, even though I had missed that one comment.

ComboBreaker88

The craft bag alone make eso plus worth it. Not sure if you were here before that was put in, but it was an absolute game changer. No one is giving up the craft bag

Elsonso

ComboBreaker88 wrote: »

The craft bag alone make eso plus worth it. Not sure if you were here before that was put in, but it was an absolute game changer. No one is giving up the craft bag

I did. Beginning of this year. Times 3. ZOS has not earned a review of that decision, either. They failed with U35 (spectacularly), the U36 DLC was free, and the Firor letter was not inspiring. I guess I will see in mid January, but I expect more marketing hype than reasons to subscribe, so not looking promising.

Faulgor

Elsonso wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

So, I'll happily give them a year to try something else, content-wise. We won't see the new normal before 2024 imo.

According to the article, this will be the new normal cadence of content. They will make adjustments if it's necessary, but this is the beginning of the new normal cadence for at least a while. It's quite possible (and likely) the quality of 2023 will be higher than 2024. But the current cadence is done. And this cadence predates YLS, and in fact we had a dlc story arc with the current cadence during the Daedric War arc.

I will go on record right now and say that they are not done with their cadence changes.

Why? 2023 is a hybrid year. Half old. Half new. They decided to change mid-stream. The 1Q DLC is already locked. It will be on PTS in a month. The 2Q chapter is probably more than half finished and will be on PTS in April. They announced no changes to this. (Yet) The 3Q DLC is the first thing they can change without upsetting the cart. There is plenty of time to change 2024 to be what they could not do in 2023.

Yeah that's what I meant.

But while we're quoting the letter, it still seems ambiguous if the Q4 "new tentpole system" will be a free base game update, or be considered a DLC. Matt calls it an update at one point, but that doesn't mean much. They might also change their plans about this down the road, and especially so for any Q3/Q4 additions for 2024 and beyond.

Q4: Rather than the usual zone DLC, we'll be featuring a new system. We are working on the concept and design for this now; we’ll give more details during our Global Reveal Event early next year. 

I guess it depends whether you put the emphasis on zone or DLC.

... rather than our usual zone DLC, we'll be featuring a new system.
... rather than our usual zone DLC, we'll be featuring a new system.

Number_51

The analogies with steaks and burgers and fries are flawed in that those are consumables. You use them once and they're gone. This is more like a gym membership where for $20/month you can use 3 sets of equipment. The next month, and still for $20, you can use those same 3 plus 3 other pieces of equipment. Then the next month it changes. It's still $20/month, but now you can use those same 6 and they only add 1 more piece of equipment. It's still value added, just at a lower rate.

Chapters are the gymnasium you have to rent out separately.

Elsonso

Faulgor wrote: »

But while we're quoting the letter, it still seems ambiguous if the Q4 "new tentpole system" will be a free base game update, or be considered a DLC. Matt calls it an update at one point, but that doesn't mean much. They might also change their plans about this down the road, and especially so for any Q3/Q4 additions for 2024 and beyond.

Q4: Rather than the usual zone DLC, we'll be featuring a new system. We are working on the concept and design for this now; we’ll give more details during our Global Reveal Event early next year. 

I guess it depends whether you put the emphasis on zone or DLC.

... rather than our usual zone DLC, we'll be featuring a new system.
... rather than our usual zone DLC, we'll be featuring a new system.

My expectation is they will monetize the QoL and System DLC, much the same way they monetized the 3Q and 4Q DLC in the past. This gives ESO Plus something and allows ZOS to give them away for free with a promotion, as they have done in the past, while making them normally a paid (Crowns/ESO Plus) thing.

AzuraFan

ComboBreaker88 wrote: »

The craft bag alone make eso plus worth it. Not sure if you were here before that was put in, but it was an absolute game changer. No one is giving up the craft bag

I'm considering it. Due to AwA I only play my main, and she's maxed out for all the crafting lines, meaning she only uses a small subset of materials for the daily writs. I also have enough stuff in my craft bag to last a while.

I played ESO for months before I subbed, and I only subbed because I was playing alts and needed materials at all levels.

If whatever they announce in January means I'll start playing alts again, I'll likely remained subbed. If not, I may unsub.

Mesite

.I need ESO+ to get my other mythics

spartaxoxo

Number_51 wrote: »

The analogies with steaks and burgers and fries are flawed in that those are consumables. You use them once and they're gone. This is more like a gym membership where for $20/month you can use 3 sets of equipment. The next month, and still for $20, you can use those same 3 plus 3 other pieces of equipment. Then the next month it changes. It's still $20/month, but now you can use those same 6 and they only add 1 more piece of equipment. It's still value added, just at a lower rate.

Chapters are the gymnasium you have to rent out separately.

Fair enough. The point is that the lower rate represents a decrease in value from the previous year. If say Netflix were to announce that it was going to stop making original movies (wouldn't be removing the old ones), but they were going to use that time to make more teen soap operas and true crime documentaries, nobody would argue with the idea that Netflix losing new movies represents a loss in value. Or tell people that subbed just for the movies that they are wrong that they lost out on new movies. It's really only video games where that's the case.

BlueRaven

ComboBreaker88 wrote: »

The craft bag alone make eso plus worth it. Not sure if you were here before that was put in, but it was an absolute game changer. No one is giving up the craft bag

So you would be fine if they took away the crowns as well?

Do you think others would be ok with them taking away the crowns? Because, you know, the craft bag?

Could it be that people get eso+ for more than one thing, and they have a right to complain if they feel they are getting less value for the money they are spending?

Just curious.

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

We have recently removed some unnecessary off-topic and back-and-forth posts from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.

Thank you for your understanding.

me_ming

spartaxoxo wrote: »

me_ming wrote: »

Yeah but the company does not plan from Aug 2015 to Aug 2016, or am I wrong on that? And yes, it does change that as a 1-year period, because IC and Orsinium are not the only changes they made in 2015

Imperial City was the first official dlc, so it starts with them. And they have content roadmaps a couple years in advance.

ESO+'s promise was for you to gain access to DLC's. And, as I have mentioned over and over again, the only time you really loose value is when you don't get to access those content,

Nope. You can compare what you got from one year to another year to determine if the value was the same, different, or less. Getting less stuff is a decrease in value.

What do you mean "Nope"? Where did they ever promise that ESO+ that we should get the same number of content every year? Because I should have that same content since day one of my subscription since I paid membership even before ESO+. Again, you are confusing yourself with IC and Orsinium being part of year 1 for ESO+, it is NOT. Otherwise, provide me information/proof that says so. Again, no, the bundle in the Crown Store is not a proof. [Snip]. I can also assume, that it's just a marketing strategy that it's just a way for ZOS to justify it's price.

[Edited for bashing]

spartaxoxo

me_ming wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

me_ming wrote: »

Yeah but the company does not plan from Aug 2015 to Aug 2016, or am I wrong on that? And yes, it does change that as a 1-year period, because IC and Orsinium are not the only changes they made in 2015

Imperial City was the first official dlc, so it starts with them. And they have content roadmaps a couple years in advance.

ESO+'s promise was for you to gain access to DLC's. And, as I have mentioned over and over again, the only time you really loose value is when you don't get to access those content,

Nope. You can compare what you got from one year to another year to determine if the value was the same, different, or less. Getting less stuff is a decrease in value.

What do you mean "Nope"? Where did they ever promise that ESO+ that we should get the same number of content every year?

They don't have to promise anything of the sort for me to be able to make a valid price comparison.

Year one a company sold me a basket with an estimated retail value for 20 dollars. The next year they gave another basket worth 10 dollars. 20 dollars is more than 10 dollars, so the 10 dollar basket is worth less.

boi_anachronism_

Number_51 wrote: »

The analogies with steaks and burgers and fries are flawed in that those are consumables. You use them once and they're gone. This is more like a gym membership where for $20/month you can use 3 sets of equipment. The next month, and still for $20, you can use those same 3 plus 3 other pieces of equipment. Then the next month it changes. It's still $20/month, but now you can use those same 6 and they only add 1 more piece of equipment. It's still value added, just at a lower rate.

Chapters are the gymnasium you have to rent out separately.

Just to throw this out there: riffing off of the gym metaphor here I'm a climber and climbing gym memberships are hella expensive. My gym has closed for renovations at different points, some for a substantial period of time. They changed all the padding at one point for example which if you know anything about that is just a massive undertaking. while it didn't change the content of the gym at all it was a huge QOL improvement that was much needed. Did I consider that a loss of value for the time I couldn't go? Definitely not, on the contrary I felt substantially more value was added because I had an updated, safer place to climb with more possibilities in terms of content they could add in the future because of that. I was used to getting new sets and content during that time, I got nothing new even though it started as once a week, then changed to twice and during this period it was zero. Consider this ZOS "renovation". No matter where you go or what you do stores, gyms, airports, apartments- they all cause inconvenience and interruption where you may not be able to take advantage of everything you normally might for the sake of having a better long term product and upkeep. Sometimes that involves major overhauls

spartaxoxo

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Consider this ZOS "renovation".

This would be a fair point if it was just supposed to be a one time thing, but it's supposed to be the new content cadence. So, it's more like they are removing the climbing wall, but they are putting in a some undisclosed water thing. Even if it's something everyone might like a pool or a jacuzzi, it would be incorrect to say climbing isn't lost.

UnabashedlyHonest

ComboBreaker88 wrote: »

The craft bag alone make eso plus worth it. Not sure if you were here before that was put in, but it was an absolute game changer. No one is giving up the craft bag

I also am doing just fine with no longer having a craft bag. I still do daily writs and everything else. Not having the craft bag hasn't changed the way I play or the activities I participate in. I use a personal guild bank now and it works just as well.