ESO+ just lost a significant amount of value

spartaxoxo

They probably won't lower the price, because these corporations rarely do. But no matter what the chapter content turns out to be, the fact of the matter is we just lost 2 dungeons and a story dlc zone. In the final one, we didn't even get an arena. And this year also includes NO coin homes (not inns), an unprecedented decision.

Will plus subscribers get anything that represents this lost value? A house, a dungeon dlc, and a story dlc are just gone.

Edit:

Here's my current projection of the dollar for dollar breakdown of the retail value of the added dlc.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

ETA

This year I received

Water's Edge House available for coin (Blackwood chapter) 6200 crown value

Blackwood (3500 crowns)

Ascending Tide (1500 crowns)

Firesong (2000 crowns)

Lost Depths (1500 crowns)

The total crown value that I received was 14700 crowns worth of stuff, if I were to buy them each from the store at individual crown prices. This is 107.98 worth of merchandise.

Next year I'll receive

No house = 0 crowns
New Chapter = 3500 crowns
1 DLC dungeon pack = 1500 crowns
1 system. Let's be optimistic and say this system has the same value as entire Q4 DLC release, and that I'll get it with plus, for the sake of argument. 2000 crowns

That's 7000 crowns of value. This is 54.98 dollars of value.

Even if you say well let's not compare having a house to not having a house because maybe this year was a one time thing, that's still 1500 crowns less. Which is 14.99 less value.

Grega

I dunno that is a “lost” value.

There are thousands every month making posts here wishing dlc dungeons aren’t included with Plus - Yello - now they kinda aren’t 🤷‍♂️.story dlc was also given for free this year and once before making plus not a factor.

It’s also widespread common knowledge #1 reason why people sub is craftbag - I doubt there is a single subscriber out there that explicitly does not use it. And since that is still there - for vast majority of subscribers I don’t think they will see this at all as any lost value. Probably happier about it.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Grega wrote: »

story dlc was also given for free this year and once before making plus not a factor.

“Free with paid purchase” is not “free”, it’s a discount. You still have to pay for it, and as it was bundled in with the Chapter it’s money directly out of pocket and not something you can buy with Crowns you might already have.

carly

I am a subscriber myself and I enjoyed the larger chapters of the past. To me the content seemed larger and more immersive than what we got with the year long system. Orsinium is a good example of that quality and is still one of my favorites chapters/zones in the game.

As for the housing, as someone that has 30 plus homes - I'd be happy with one quality home per year if they gave people the option to purchase with coins or crowns, that way everyone has a chance to purchase the new home if they so choose.

This is a great game and I personally wouldn't mind them revamping some of the older zones/dungeons and quests to reinvigorate the game. Quality over quantity is a winner every time.

Soarora

What I haven't seen anyone mention except as a negative is that ESO+ still includes all of the previous dungeons. It also includes previous Chapters from years before. For me, ESO+ hasn't lost any value yet since I mainly use it to unlock all of the previous dungeons.

LukosCreyden

If it means better quality content, I will happily take that loss.

"""loss""".

AzuraFan

Grega wrote: »

It’s also widespread common knowledge #1 reason why people sub is craftbag - I doubt there is a single subscriber out there that explicitly does not use it. And since that is still there - for vast majority of subscribers I don’t think they will see this at all as any lost value. Probably happier about it.

I'm a subscriber and I see it as lost value. I'm not sure what it is about games that makes subscribers more willing to let the value of a subscription erode, when they wouldn't do so with another type of product. For example, if you got 10 perks as part of a subscription and were suddenly told that you're only going to get 6 but the price isn't going down, I'm sure most would have something to say about that. But not with ESO+.

Yes, the craft bag is probably the most valuable part of the subscription for most players. I also like the increased bank space, and I like the access to the DLCs. That's been enough for me to shell out for ESO+ what I could be spending on three AAA games, or many more non-AAA games, per year. And that's on top of the major chapter release each year.

Now the DLC access part is being considerably watered down going forward. One DLC, and a dungeon one at that.

Frankly I think as part of this new direction, ZOS should re-evaluate ESO+ and its benefits. Why should consumers keep paying for it when it's being watered down?

When you have a one-trick pony like the craft bag, the danger is that a motivated player can figure out how to do without it (as many have) and skip the subscription, or decide that yeah, they can't get along without the craft bag, but ESO+ is too expensive for just that, so bye-bye ESO.

Faulgor

They routinely gave away the Q4 DLC for free the last couple of years, so I don't think it's a huge diminishment.

Besides, we don't know yet if the new system released in Q4 will be free/included in the base game.

StabbityDoom

From the sound of it, I'm thrilled with what they have said. We won't know until we see it, but they really seem to have listened that we want fixes, qol upgrades, and better (less obvious) stories. It sounds fantastic. I don't care if we miss a DLC/2 dungeons this year. I'd rather less but better quality, and I'm happy with the letter. It really took responsibility.

NettleCarrier

It honestly doesn't bother me one bit, I keep the sub for a variety of reasons. I'd like them to fix the bugs.

AScarlato

To be fair, an expansion should have come with the entire year of content that is needed to complete the story. Can't believe they removed half the story and put them in dungeons and another zone that wasn't included when you paid FULL PRICE for the epansion.

DirtyDeeds765

ESO Plus doesn't guarantee you will get a certain amount of content each year. It guarantees you have access to all DLC content.

@DirtyDeeds765

spartaxoxo

Faulgor wrote: »

They routinely gave away the Q4 DLC for free the last couple of years, so I don't think it's a huge diminishment.

Besides, we don't know yet if the new system released in Q4 will be free/included in the base game.

Twice is not a routine or a trend.

spartaxoxo

Grega wrote: »

I dunno that is a “lost” value.

There are thousands every month making posts here wishing dlc dungeons aren’t included with Plus - Yello - now they kinda aren’t 🤷‍♂️.story dlc was also given for free this year and once before making plus not a factor.

It’s also widespread common knowledge #1 reason why people sub is craftbag - I doubt there is a single subscriber out there that explicitly does not use it. And since that is still there - for vast majority of subscribers I don’t think they will see this at all as any lost value. Probably happier about it.

Less content is less content. Would the year of Wrothgar have been as good if it didn't also include the Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood. Would Summerset have been as good of an entire year without Murkmire? The answer is no. TG, DB, an Murkmire all brought a good amount of content and added value to the year. And now, such a thing is gone. DLC dungeons WILL still be included with plus, we just get less dungeons. As someone who very much enjoys dungeons and solos them, yes, that's a significant loss for me.

It's great if you like the sound of it, but there's no reason we should have pick between quality of chapters and half the content. They have delivered both quality chapters and DLC in the past. That is value being lost, no doubt about it.

AzuraFan wrote: »

Grega wrote: »

It’s also widespread common knowledge #1 reason why people sub is craftbag - I doubt there is a single subscriber out there that explicitly does not use it. And since that is still there - for vast majority of subscribers I don’t think they will see this at all as any lost value. Probably happier about it.

I'm a subscriber and I see it as lost value. I'm not sure what it is about games that makes subscribers more willing to let the value of a subscription erode, when they wouldn't do so with another type of product.

Amen. The whole we can't have quality content if we have small zone DLC is such a false dichotomy. Everyone goes on about the Daedric War, but over the course of those 2 years, we got 8 dungeons, 2 small zone DLCs, 2 chapters, and high quality. Just because the pandemic impacted the quality of the last 2 years doesn't mean that they can't deliver quality content and a good amount of it at the same time.

AzuraFan

DirtyDeeds765 wrote: »

ESO Plus doesn't guarantee you will get a certain amount of content each year. It guarantees you have access to all DLC content.

Fair point. I guess it's up to each player to decide if ESO+ is still worth it.

Honestly, I'm more concerned with the quality of the next chapter. But given how little I'll probably play in 2023 anyway (given the new releases coming down the pipe), what I see as a watering down of ESO+ (starting with giving away the Q4 DLC for the past two years) will just make it easier for me to cancel my sub.

SimonThesis

TBH Id glady pay a subscription for less bugs and more QOL improvements instead of another zone I'll never go to aka Fargrave.

spartaxoxo

SimonThesis wrote: »

TBH Id glady pay a subscription for less bugs and more QOL improvements instead of another zone I'll never go to aka Fargrave.

We used to get both. Less value.

SimonThesis

Since when have we gotten both? We have bugs that have been around for over 3 years. People have been stuck in combat and unable to mount for over 5 years now. Now we can't even block... Id gladly sub for them to fix bugs

ArchMikem

"System" content could also include PvP Battleground map packs. Like they said, content that can be repeatable. If you really squint your eyes, Housing is technically a repeatable gameplay content.

spartaxoxo

SimonThesis wrote: »

Since when have we gotten both? We have bugs that have been around for over 3 years. People have been stuck in combat and unable to mount for over 5 years now. Now we can't even block... Id gladly sub for them to fix bugs

They are fixing the block bug RN. Yes, we've had some persistent bugs. But it's pretty obvious this game is a lot more buggy now than during the Daedric War arc. That two year period brought us a largely playable game, 2 chapters, 2 zone stories, 8 dungeons, 2 trials, and an Arena. We also got 3 (coin purchasable/free) houses instead of 0.

They are objectively giving us less content than the last time we had a story arc. They gave us quality and quantity back then. It doesn't have to be and shouldn't be an and/or thing.

"Sorry guys we can't give you the same amount of content we've literally always had and also not constantly break everything" is somehow being successfully spun as a positive.

spartaxoxo

ArchMikem wrote: »

"System" content could also include PvP Battleground map packs. Like they said, content that can be repeatable. If you really squint your eyes, Housing is technically a repeatable gameplay content.

Yup.

In general, there are two types of content in ESO: hand-crafted, such as quests, stories and things you do one time per character; and systems, which are activities that are generally repeatable such as PvP, dungeons, trials, housing, daily crafting writs, etc.

They actually explicitly mention housing as an example of a system. They also mention daily crafting writs. Technically, they aren't promising anything more substantial in Q4 than the daily crafting writs.

colossalvoids

Depends how you see the value.

Bland almost lore-less/breaking/ignoring zones aren't my cup of tea personally, no character development, heavily dumbed down version of content we had 3-4 years ago and close to zero exciting features weren't worth the buck already for some time.

I'll miss a second dungeon pack but if their time won't be wasted bringing more stability and fixes (and enhance next year's pack to be more interesting) I'm all ears.

We're still having zero idea if q1 dungeon pack would be the same as always or altered already, same with q2 chapter not knowing scale and scope, features, availability of homes, etc. it can be a "reduced " year for sure or already fully altered one, Jan would probably tell a bit.

Jaimeh

Though OP has a point, I think most people sub for the craft bag and inventory double space (housing fans for the double capacity as well, since this is the only part that you can't make up without plus, whereas inventory can be managed via alt toons and accounts). Also, DLCs are pretty cheap and can easily be bought with game gold via crown exchange.

Amottica

I figured someone would suggest ESO+ just lost value.

I will point out that getting four dungeons and two zones a year is extremely heavy on the dungeon side. I know I am tired of getting so many dungeons a year.
'
Even then,we do not know how the DLCs will turn out. We may get more in the three releases a year. Even then, I have not seen the slightest clue offered to suggest what the Q4 offering will be. It may be a great offering to the game.

As such, we only know that things will get different and that it is premature to suggest we will get less value. Zenimax knows content is a big driver to keeping players in the game. So yes, it is very hasty to suggest any facts based on the vague information we have received.

FluffWit

Eh I have enough crowns to buy all the dlcs if I wanted to.

At this point literally all I'm subbing for is the craft bag.

Dr_Con

They were already giving an expansion away and people complained about it cheapening the value of ESO+. A new well-rounded zone is much needed.

also- craft bag, more transmutes, more inventory/(bank?) space, crowns, and previous DLCs with ESO+ membership.

This format was a needed change and likely puts some pressure off their QA workers, who will hopefully be able to take their time in finding and defining bugs/issues that need to be fixed. It would be nice if they included the community in this and put the updates on PTS ahead of time.

karthrag_inak

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They probably won't lower the price, because these corporations rarely do. But no matter what the chapter content turns out to be, the fact of the matter is we just lost 2 dungeons and a story dlc zone. In the final one, we didn't even get an arena. And this year also includes NO coin homes (not inns), an unprecedented decision.

Will plus subscribers get anything that represents this lost value? A house, a dungeon dlc, and a story dlc are just gone.

How does not getting more DLC content mean diminished value, or anything being lost at all, for that matter? Khajiit has read and re-read both game description and ESO+ agreement and nowhere is the commitment made or even inferred that more DLCs would come every year. Getting new DLC content access for free is an increase in value. Not getting such access due to no new content coming does not mean the value has decreased. Zero change is not a decrease.

ESO+ was worth the price 5 years ago, and with everything else that has been added since then, without the price increasing, ESO+ is just that much more valuable.

spartaxoxo

karthrag_inak wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They probably won't lower the price, because these corporations rarely do. But no matter what the chapter content turns out to be, the fact of the matter is we just lost 2 dungeons and a story dlc zone. In the final one, we didn't even get an arena. And this year also includes NO coin homes (not inns), an unprecedented decision.

Will plus subscribers get anything that represents this lost value? A house, a dungeon dlc, and a story dlc are just gone.

How does not getting more DLC content mean diminished value, or anything being lost at all, for that matter?

They don't have to have promised that. I am not accusing them of false advertising or anything illegal. It is a reasonable expectation to think a subscription product will continue to provide what it has always provided, unless they announce ahead of time they are changing it. Which they did. So, it's not relevant. No claim is being made about the advertising being false, no refund is being requested, no legality is in dispute. I am not saying they did anything of that nature.

It doesn't change that ESO+ lost value. That's how price increases work. Less product for the same price is a price increase and represents a lower value than it was before. Hence the question if they plan to change ESO+ at all.

Lost value is not the same thing as false advertising. If I used to sell a hamburger for 5.00 and now it's 6.00 and a smaller patty, the value is now lower. You can decide whether it's still worth it to you to buy it. It's not illegal to raise the price of burger, and in some cases it's necessary. Doesn't change that it's a lower value to the consumer to get less food for more money.

spartaxoxo

Amottica wrote: »

I figured someone would suggest ESO+ just lost value.

I will point out that getting four dungeons and two zones a year is extremely heavy on the dungeon side. I know I am tired of getting so many dungeons a year.
'
Even then,we do not know how the DLCs will turn out. We may get more in the three releases a year. Even then, I have not seen the slightest clue offered to suggest what the Q4 offering will be. It may be a great offering to the game.

As such, we only know that things will get different and that it is premature to suggest we will get less value. Zenimax knows content is a big driver to keeping players in the game. So yes, it is very hasty to suggest any facts based on the vague information we have received.

They stated the Q4 DLC will be the big system, and it's gonna be a tentpole type thing. It sounds like they've moved the big new system from being part of the chapter DLC to a standalone thing in Q4. We'll probably still get a Trial in the chapter though, as they said the chapter will be full featured. It will be interesting to see what they can do with more time to polish it.

BahometZ

I think it's too early to draw conclusions about worth.

Luede

the bottom line is that most will keep eso+, regardless of how little it brings, since most won't want to play without the craft bag.