ESO+ just lost a significant amount of value

TaSheen

spartaxoxo wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Well, I don't personally feel that the quality is going to ramp out of sight. I loved Blackwood and High Isle (though didn't/don't care for Deadlands) and Galen is truly wonderful. I didn't fine Western Skyrim wonderful at all for quality. So if we get more stuff similar to W Skyrim, I won't think it's an upgrade in quality, and I won't be best pleased.

Yes yes. I'm fully aware I'm a minority of one.

The chapter will presumably be more like Morrowind in terms of quality.

They already told us that the first half of the year isn't going to see significant change, and that their goal was to reduce handcrafted quests. So, you should probably view it like Morrowind.

*shrug* I wasn't pleased at all with Morrowind - neither TES III (which I didn't even complete the MQ in, nor spend more than around fifty hours in - the only one of the single player games for which that's true) nor ESO's version. And besides, you don't consider Morrowind had handcrafted quests?

No. It has handcrafted quests. The ones we're losing is the small zone dlc, so for that year it would be like getting Morrowind but not Clockwork City.

The reason I mentioned Morrowind as a likely comparison in terms of quality (don't mean setting) is because Morrowind introduced a much requested new feature and was the start of a story arc. The developers mentioned that they wanted to go back to story arcs like the Daedric War.

Ah. I misunderstood what you meant there. Of course, I wasn't real pleased with the "story arc" thing either. It might not have been so bad had it not been all about daedra. I did enjoy the Blackwood story, but I didn't even mess with Deadlands (hate all that lava etc - same for Vvardenfell, Stonefalls et al) and since I didn't "finish" it, I didn't really have to deal with Dagon, just the first three Ambitions and Vandacia (who was enough of a PITA thank you).

The older I get, the pickier I am. Works for me. I really did enjoy the year long story setup (even leaving Deadlands as dead content for me). I LOVED Elsweyr and Dragonhold.... and after the holidays I'll finish up in Galen and Y'ffelon. Wonder how many times I can die on the last boss....

Necrotech_Master

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

losing a dungeon DLC for more QoL and base game improvements that improve everyones experience is what i would rather have, i would pay for eso+ either way because A) i want to support the game and B ) what good is new content when its (lately) sometimes been borderline unplayable anyway

It shouldn't be a choice. But beyond that, whether you would use the DLC or not, it's still around 1500 crowns of retail value off of your sub. And I never asked them to still put in the dungeon dlc anyway.

When the pulled crown crates out of the free plus days for plus subscribers, they gave us statuettes as compensation. This was certainly a smaller loss than a dungeon dlc and a small zone dlc. Crates wasn't even part of plus, dlc access is


At the very least they should give us something like 1500 more crowns as part of plus imo. I'm not asking to change the cadence, I asked if plus would get an adjustment to the value it lost.

to me the statuettes are basically valueless, we have like 40-50 of them now or so, you know what the limit is on collectible furnishings? 110 (with eso+), in just undaunted trophies we already have well over this, and then when you factor in other collectible furnishings that have functionality (armory station), i just dont use like any of them, complete waste

i grab the statuettes and paintings purely because they are free, not because i like them, i know how useless they are being categorized as "collectible" furnishings, we already have close to 200 furnishings listed as collectible furnishings for a maximum of 110 slots (with ESO+)

i would also prefer the content to you know be better, the deadric war story arc stuff at least had decent size zones, and good stories, greymoor was ok (5 or 6/10), blackwood made me actively hate eveli (overall it was like a 3/10), high isle felt like the same copy pasta (4/10)

overall, i would say the only loss of value in ESO+ is if the game were to tank because of all the subpar (buggy + content) releases as of late

spartaxoxo

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

losing a dungeon DLC for more QoL and base game improvements that improve everyones experience is what i would rather have, i would pay for eso+ either way because A) i want to support the game and B ) what good is new content when its (lately) sometimes been borderline unplayable anyway

It shouldn't be a choice. But beyond that, whether you would use the DLC or not, it's still around 1500 crowns of retail value off of your sub. And I never asked them to still put in the dungeon dlc anyway.

When the pulled crown crates out of the free plus days for plus subscribers, they gave us statuettes as compensation. This was certainly a smaller loss than a dungeon dlc and a small zone dlc. Crates wasn't even part of plus, dlc access is


At the very least they should give us something like 1500 more crowns as part of plus imo. I'm not asking to change the cadence, I asked if plus would get an adjustment to the value it lost.

to me the statuettes are basically valueless, we have like 40-50 of them now or so, you know what the limit is on collectible furnishings? 110 (with eso+), in just undaunted trophies we already have well over this, and then when you factor in other collectible furnishings that have functionality (armory station), i just dont use like any of them, complete waste

They are worth more than zero. And I doubt they'd cancel fixing bugs because they did something like add furniture or crowns to plus.

Collectible furnishings are on top of the traditional furnishings, so they can be an excellent way to fill areas without wasting traditional slots.

Regardless of personal opinions on the taste of the content, the retail value of getting 4 DLCs per year vs 2 DLCs per year for the same price results in a lower value

Amottica

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Number_51 wrote: »

The analogies with steaks and burgers and fries are flawed in that those are consumables. You use them once and they're gone. This is more like a gym membership where for $20/month you can use 3 sets of equipment. The next month, and still for $20, you can use those same 3 plus 3 other pieces of equipment. Then the next month it changes. It's still $20/month, but now you can use those same 6 and they only add 1 more piece of equipment. It's still value added, just at a lower rate.

Chapters are the gymnasium you have to rent out separately.

Fair enough. The point is that the lower rate represents a decrease in value from the previous year.

Not necessarily and with the information we have we do not know this. While we know we will get fewer content updates per year we do not truly know if that actually means less overall content being added to the game.

Granted, it is everyone's right to think their dollar has lost value here before opening the package, but it is pretty much just pure speculation and guessing as to the benefit or lack of that these changes will bring. Nothing more than that at this time.

katanagirl1

I guess my most significant concern right now is that I thought we sort of agreed to have a smaller chapter with High Isle and dlc Firesong so they could spend more time with the code upgrade.

We got a lot of bad bugs instead that many have not been fixed.

Doesn’t seem like we made any forward progress, just backward.

Eliran

I am still waiting for a new Arena which is harder than BRP ..

Seems like a lost hope dream

MrSpaM

Pretty much all of the value comes from the crafting bag, so as long as that is still there then you're not really losing anything tbh

Elsonso

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I guess my most significant concern right now is that I thought we sort of agreed to have a smaller chapter with High Isle and dlc Firesong so they could spend more time with the code upgrade.

We got a lot of bad bugs instead that many have not been fixed.

Doesn’t seem like we made any forward progress, just backward.

I would not say "Agreed" but yes, the plans recently have had a little "*" after them to note concessions.

BlueRaven

MrSpaM wrote: »

Pretty much all of the value comes from the crafting bag, so as long as that is still there then you're not really losing anything tbh

I don’t understand this argument.

So I will ask the question once again, they could take away the crowns (and all the other perks besides the bag) and you would still be good with it?

And after that they can raise the price for eso+ as well?

I am just curious about how much they can take away from eso+ before it becomes a problem for you.

Aardappelboom

While it's true that the added value each year is lowered a bit. The current Value of ESO+ is staying the same, which for me is enough to pay for.

You could cancel and buy all Dungeons and DLC seperately. Comparing that to a sub at the current price is what the value is.

I do understand hoever that if you've complete everything and don'y frequent the content anymore than it might feel like you'll be getting less value for money, but OP's statement is't entirely correct since it's the added value that is decreasing, not the value in itself.

Also, it's very early to value the subscription based on the letter, the new systeem or feature(s) could be tied into ESO+

spartaxoxo

Aardappelboom wrote: »

While it's true that the added value each year is lowered a bit. The current Value of ESO+ is staying the same, which for me is enough to pay for.

The value of the sub each year is the total value of the sub. Both the added items you'll get that year, as well as the old stuff. Since the added value went down, so will the total value of that year.

The value of 2023 will be retail value of Q1+Q2+Q3+Q4 2023 + the retail value of the crowns+ the value of old DLCs. We can't estimate the price of the crafting bag or other perks, as they aren't sold separately.

2023's Q2's value will NOT be the chapter, as it is not a part of ESO+. It will instead be High Isle, which is the chapter ESO+ will get added to the sub. It is of note that High Isle will not come with an achievement/coin/free house, a first for a chapter since housing was added.

Q3's value will be 0.00 because bug fixes are not part of the perks of plus.

G0K4R

MrSpaM wrote: »

Pretty much all of the value comes from the crafting bag, so as long as that is still there then you're not really losing anything tbh

I can agree with this.

I don't care about anything but the crafting back and inventory slots. And probably many others can relate...

Tho it's frustrating in general atm. I cancel my sub every month cause I can't be sure wheather I wan't to keep playing next month. It's rly sad.

BlueRaven

G0K4R wrote: »

MrSpaM wrote: »

Pretty much all of the value comes from the crafting bag, so as long as that is still there then you're not really losing anything tbh

I can agree with this.

I don't care about anything but the crafting back and inventory slots. And probably many others can relate...

Tho it's frustrating in general atm. I cancel my sub every month cause I can't be sure wheather I wan't to keep playing next month. It's rly sad.

So many people here, willing to pay the same for less services. and have no issues with it.

This is a worrying sign for the future.

Arunei

BlueRaven wrote: »

G0K4R wrote: »

MrSpaM wrote: »

Pretty much all of the value comes from the crafting bag, so as long as that is still there then you're not really losing anything tbh

I can agree with this.

I don't care about anything but the crafting back and inventory slots. And probably many others can relate...

Tho it's frustrating in general atm. I cancel my sub every month cause I can't be sure wheather I wan't to keep playing next month. It's rly sad.

So many people here, willing to pay the same for less services. and have no issues with it.

This is a worrying sign for the future.

Or maybe, just maybe, a lot of people only subbed for the craft bag? If people can claim we're losing value based on the small amount of information we have now, you can't turn around and say people who never used that "value" are a problem. Just as many people sub for only the craft bag as they do for other perks of a sub. I've seen plenty of people say over the years they only sub for the craft bag, because that's the thing that has the most value to them. They're not lesser than people who only subbed for double bank space or for access to all DLC.

BlueRaven

Arunei wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

G0K4R wrote: »

MrSpaM wrote: »

Pretty much all of the value comes from the crafting bag, so as long as that is still there then you're not really losing anything tbh

I can agree with this.

I don't care about anything but the crafting back and inventory slots. And probably many others can relate...

Tho it's frustrating in general atm. I cancel my sub every month cause I can't be sure wheather I wan't to keep playing next month. It's rly sad.

So many people here, willing to pay the same for less services. and have no issues with it.

This is a worrying sign for the future.

Or maybe, just maybe, a lot of people only subbed for the craft bag? If people can claim we're losing value based on the small amount of information we have now, you can't turn around and say people who never used that "value" are a problem. Just as many people sub for only the craft bag as they do for other perks of a sub. I've seen plenty of people say over the years they only sub for the craft bag, because that's the thing that has the most value to them. They're not lesser than people who only subbed for double bank space or for access to all DLC.

So you are in the pro stripping value from eso+ camp then?

I have never seen such a vigorous argument that getting less value for your money is fine.

I am not disabled, but if the town stripped away services for them I would not stand up and go “Maybe, just maybe not everyone needs those services.”

People feel they are getting less for their eso+ subscription. Maybe, just maybe they are allowed to complain about that. This pushback, this defending, of getting less value is just crazy to me.

boi_anachronism_

BlueRaven wrote: »

Hey eso developers!

Good news!

You apparently can take away everything from eso+ (but the craft bag) and people will still defend your decision.
…

That’s what you who see no problem in what zos is doing are saying, right?

@spartaxoxo @boi_anachronism_

A better example is property taxes.

Where for the same property taxes they have announced they are cutting back on yearly road repair. And you are confronted with people who say “Well I just pay it for the garbage pick up, so it’s still a good deal.”

…

The bottom line.
Less future dlcs means less value for eso+. Future adventures I can look forward to are gone. Eso+ gave me a craft bag, but it also gave me an implied promise of access to future dlcs, of future narrative progress for my characters.
Now, if I want new adventures, I need to look outside of eso. Q3 and Q4 just looks bleak. And that makes the value of eso+ smaller. If I am not playing eso, than what value is eso+?

taxes are actually a great example. They focus on different things at different times. Simple example for that is schools. More taxes maybe allocated to them during that time as opposed road repair because they don't have enough money for both without raising taxes.

Elsonso

Arunei wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

G0K4R wrote: »

MrSpaM wrote: »

Pretty much all of the value comes from the crafting bag, so as long as that is still there then you're not really losing anything tbh

I can agree with this.

I don't care about anything but the crafting back and inventory slots. And probably many others can relate...

Tho it's frustrating in general atm. I cancel my sub every month cause I can't be sure wheather I wan't to keep playing next month. It's rly sad.

So many people here, willing to pay the same for less services. and have no issues with it.

This is a worrying sign for the future.

Or maybe, just maybe, a lot of people only subbed for the craft bag? If people can claim we're losing value based on the small amount of information we have now, you can't turn around and say people who never used that "value" are a problem. Just as many people sub for only the craft bag as they do for other perks of a sub. I've seen plenty of people say over the years they only sub for the craft bag, because that's the thing that has the most value to them. They're not lesser than people who only subbed for double bank space or for access to all DLC.

As you say, a lot of people probably subscribe just for the craft bag. That said, we should all be mindful of times when the value of ESO Plus is going to be reduced, or potentially reduced. This should apply even if ZOS might remove something that is not a reason that a person subscribes. Someday, a potential reduction could apply to them, and they will certainly appreciate the support from the other ESO Plus subscribers.

I say this because a craft bag not tied to ESO Plus has always been a "requested feature", and could even be one of the "most requested features". Personally, I think they would never do such a thing, but then ZOS does not always do as I think.

Yes, in that case, if the only reason to subscribe was the craft bag, the obvious answer is to stop subscribing. That is when the player realizes that the bank space, housing space, DLC zones, and other ESO Plus content was... nice to have.

I did not subscribe for the crafting bag. That is junk that is just sitting around collecting dust and a bag off where I don't see or think about it is nice to have. Today, I just sell or delete crafting materials.

Firor did not hint how all of the 2023 changes will impact ESO Plus. Maybe they haven't decided what to do, as I think all of this plan change is very recent. In any case, the door is wide open on this matter and ZOS can go either direction. What ZOS does not say is at least as important as what they do say. Anyone who has been around for a while knows this.

We will find out in January. Before then, they won't be saying anything at all to us and we are free to speculate to our heart's content. They are not oblivious to this situation, and they will undoubtedly have some sort of an ESO Plus statement in January, but I would not assume that it is going to be well received by the community.

SaffronCitrusflower

I kept my ESO+ sub for over 8 years primarily because I feel it's my responsibility to pay for the products I use. The craft bag and crowns were nice perks, but the main reason I subbed was because I felt it was the right thing to do as I play the game daily.

Now though, there is every indication that ZOS is sun-setting ESO. There are too many game changing bugs that don't get fixed in a timely manner or never fixed at all, and communication and respect for the customer base is the worst of any business I've dealt with on a regular basis. That's why I cancelled my sub after over 8 years. If ZOS isn't going to continue to invest in their game, then neither am I. Over the years I've paid over $3,000 to ZOS to play their game, and that should be plenty sufficient for the remainder of the life of ESO IMO provided ZOS stays the course they are on now with ESO. If ZOS changes course, improves communication, performance, gives bug fixes higher priority and shows some modicum of respect for the customer base, I will be happy to resub again in the future.

Elsonso

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

I kept my ESO+ sub for over 8 years primarily because I feel it's my responsibility to pay for the products I use. The craft bag and crowns were nice perks, but the main reason I subbed was because I felt it was the right thing to do as I play the game daily.

I did that until early this year, then decided that this manner of thinking was not benefiting me as much as it was them.

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

Now though, there is every indication that ZOS is sun-setting ESO. There are too many game changing bugs that don't get fixed in a timely manner or never fixed at all, and communication and respect for the customer base is the worst of any business I've dealt with on a regular basis. That's why I cancelled my sub after over 8 years. If ZOS isn't going to continue to invest in their game, then neither am I.

ZOS has a boatload of issues, but I do not think it is sunsetting. They have had product quality issues for a long time, and while it may be worse now, it isn't new. I think that this is something that is common across the whole game development industry and that ZOS has been just following standard industry practices. Additionally, it seems to me that they fell into the trap that development on an MMO never ends and ended up taking the mentality of "feature now, fix later, shoot for average". To steal an old marketing slogan, the name went on before the quality went in. Near as I can tell from other games I have played, this is not unheard of in many studios. Quality should be there the entire time, from concept to completion, and too many people think it gets added in by some QA department.

On that score, since ZOS was unable to dial in how to fix and create at the same time, this new strategy is an encouraging fallback. However, as with many things, we will have to wait until the end of next year to see whether it was more hype than substance. Meanwhile, they have to show more cards in their 2023 hand in January, but I expect that they will keep most of their cards hidden.

spartaxoxo

BlueRaven wrote: »

G0K4R wrote: »

MrSpaM wrote: »

Pretty much all of the value comes from the crafting bag, so as long as that is still there then you're not really losing anything tbh

I can agree with this.

I don't care about anything but the crafting back and inventory slots. And probably many others can relate...

Tho it's frustrating in general atm. I cancel my sub every month cause I can't be sure wheather I wan't to keep playing next month. It's rly sad.

So many people here, willing to pay the same for less services. and have no issues with it.

This is a worrying sign for the future.

I agree, you don't really see this with other services either.

So, some streaming tv subscriber can say, "My sub used to be ad-free, but now they have 5 ads per video. My sub has worsened." And most comments will be able to see that even if they don't mind the ads, ad-free was definitely something that was lost.

Or someone who eats food can go "1.00 used to buy me 20 oz. Bag of chips, but now it's just 10. Oz. They raised the price by shrinking the bag." And most comments won't be like "well, I only ate half the bag anyway. So really, it's the exact same price." They might find the price increase a good thing because of less food waste or for fitness reasons, but they won't sit there and tell you that 10 oz is the same amount of food as 20 oz.

But when it comes to a gaming company, people will tell you that you cannot compare prices from one year to the next, when a company announces it's cut the amount of new content it's offering subscriptions in half. Or that it's not actually cut because they personally didn't use it anyway. As if whether or not it was to their taste changes that it was nevertheless part of the retail value of the sub. Or that other people might have actually liked what was being cut.

What I find especially too bad is I didn't even say they should change the new content cadence. It's not like I said "leave the bugs in, I want another dungeon"' despite some of the commentary seeming to be under that impression. I even acknowledged it's unlikely to expect a price reduction as it's not normal business practice. All I asked was if they were going to make any adjustments to plus. You know, like when we got statuettes because crown crates (which wasn't even a plus feature) got removed from future plus days.

Amottica

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aardappelboom wrote: »

While it's true that the added value each year is lowered a bit. The current Value of ESO+ is staying the same, which for me is enough to pay for.

The value of the sub each year is the total value of the sub. Both the added items you'll get that year, as well as the old stuff. Since the added value went down, so will the total value of that year.

The value of 2023 will be retail value of Q1+Q2+Q3+Q4 2023 + the retail value of the crowns+ the value of old DLCs. We can't estimate the price of the crafting bag or other perks, as they aren't sold separately.

2023's Q2's value will NOT be the chapter, as it is not a part of ESO+. It will instead be High Isle, which is the chapter ESO+ will get added to the sub. It is of note that High Isle will not come with an achievement/coin/free house, a first for a chapter since housing was added.

Q3's value will be 0.00 because bug fixes are not part of the perks of plus.

The total value of the sub includes all zones and other content ESO+ grants access to. Not just the current year.

Further, we have not seen the total offering of Q1, Q2, and Q4 to know what they will bring to the game compared to previous years. As such, we can only speculate and guess based on the minimal information we have so far. I would prefer to base my opinions on what we will actually get vs what we imagine we will get.

spartaxoxo

Amottica wrote: »

The total value of the sub includes all zones and other content ESO+ grants access to. Not just the current year.

Further, we have not seen the total offering of Q1, Q2, and Q4 to know what they will bring to the game compared to previous years.

I already addressed both those points the post you quoted.

The value of 2023 will be retail value of Q1+Q2+Q3+Q4 2023 + the retail value of the crowns+ the value of old DLCs. We can't estimate the price of the crafting bag or other perks, as they aren't sold separately.

2023's Q2's value will NOT be the chapter, as it is not a part of ESO+. It will instead be High Isle, which is the chapter ESO+ will get added to the sub.

Additionally, Q1 we know it will just be a normal dungeons DLC. They already told us that Q1 and Q2 will not see much change from previous years.

Amottica

BlueRaven wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

G0K4R wrote: »

MrSpaM wrote: »

Pretty much all of the value comes from the crafting bag, so as long as that is still there then you're not really losing anything tbh

I can agree with this.

I don't care about anything but the crafting back and inventory slots. And probably many others can relate...

Tho it's frustrating in general atm. I cancel my sub every month cause I can't be sure wheather I wan't to keep playing next month. It's rly sad.

So many people here, willing to pay the same for less services. and have no issues with it.

This is a worrying sign for the future.

Or maybe, just maybe, a lot of people only subbed for the craft bag? If people can claim we're losing value based on the small amount of information we have now, you can't turn around and say people who never used that "value" are a problem. Just as many people sub for only the craft bag as they do for other perks of a sub. I've seen plenty of people say over the years they only sub for the craft bag, because that's the thing that has the most value to them. They're not lesser than people who only subbed for double bank space or for access to all DLC.

I have never seen such a vigorous argument that getting less value for your money is fine. .

I have not seen any argument at all based on detailed information concerning the sum and total of each of the three content DLCs will have compared to what we have been receiving in both quality and quantity. As we get more detailed information concerning these changes we are not able to have vigorous discussions that are meaningful. Until then this discussion is heavily flawed due to what it is lacking and that is a fact.

spartaxoxo

Amottica wrote: »

I have not seen any argument at all based on detailed information concerning the sum and total of each of the three content DLCs will have compared to what we have been receiving in both quality and quantity.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

This year I received

Water's Edge House available for coin (Blackwood chapter) 6200 crown value

Blackwood (3500 crowns)

Ascending Tide (1500 crowns)

Firesong (2000 crowns)

Lost Depths (1500 crowns)

The total crown value that I received was 14700 crowns worth of stuff, if I were to buy them each from the store at individual crown prices. This is 107.98 worth of merchandise.

Next year I'll receive

No house = 0 crowns
New Chapter = 3500 crowns
1 DLC dungeon pack = 1500 crowns
1 system. Let's be optimistic and say this system has the same value as entire Q4 DLC release, and that I'll get it with plus, for the sake of argument. 2000 crowns

That's 7000 crowns of value. This is 54.98 dollars of value.

Even if you say well let's not compare having a house to not having a house because maybe this year was a one time thing, that's still 1500 crowns less. Which is 14.99 less value.

I valued Q1 at the normal dungeons pack price, because they already told us that the first half of the year will not see a change.

Q2 for ESO+ is High Isle, a known value

Q3 is 0.00 because they already told us not to expect value in terms of content this quarter, but instead that it will work on bug fixes. The system was not stated to be replacing this value, only Q4.

Q4 is the only unknown value. I set it for the sake of argument at the same value as what it was replacing. This is because they told us this what we can expect. Small zone dlc is 2000 crowns. You can choose to withold judgment because it might exceed the expectations and be worth more than the Q4 DLC. But, it's not unreasonable for others to set the expectation only at in what is in the letter, which that it will simply replace Q4.

Necrotech_Master

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I have not seen any argument at all based on detailed information concerning the sum and total of each of the three content DLCs will have compared to what we have been receiving in both quality and quantity.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

This year I received

Water's Edge House available for coin (Blackwood chapter) 6200 crown value

Blackwood (3500 crowns)

Ascending Tide (1500 crowns)

Firesong (2000 crowns)

Lost Depths (1500 crowns)

The total crown value that I received was 14700 crowns worth of stuff, if I were to buy them each from the store at individual crown prices. This is 107.98 worth of merchandise.

Next year I'll receive

No house = 0 crowns
New Chapter = 3500 crowns
1 DLC dungeon pack = 1500 crowns
1 system. Let's be optimistic and say this system has the same value as entire Q4 DLC release, and that I'll get it with plus, for the sake of argument. 2000 crowns

That's 7000 crowns of value. This is 54.98 dollars of value.

Even if you say well let's not compare having a house to not having a house because maybe this year was a one time thing, that's still 1500 crowns less. Which is 14.99 less value.

I valued Q1 at the normal dungeons pack price, because they already told us that the first half of the year will not see a change.

Q2 for ESO+ is High Isle, a known value

Q3 is 0.00 because they already told us not to expect value in terms of content this quarter, but instead that it will work on bug fixes. The system was not stated to be replacing this value, only Q4.

Q4 is the only unknown value. I set it for the sake of argument at the same value as what it was replacing. This is because they told us this what we can expect. Small zone dlc is 2000 crowns. You can choose to withold judgment because it might exceed the expectations and be worth more than the Q4 DLC. But, it's not unreasonable for others to set the expectation only at in what is in the letter, which that it will simply replace Q4.

if Q3 has QoL, that is content, just one that we are not expected to pay for, which if i had to say, is more benefit to eso population as a whole

i still dont understand the whole lost value thing, we could just you know revert back to the first year of the game where the sub was REQUIRED to play at all, period

spartaxoxo

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I have not seen any argument at all based on detailed information concerning the sum and total of each of the three content DLCs will have compared to what we have been receiving in both quality and quantity.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

This year I received

Water's Edge House available for coin (Blackwood chapter) 6200 crown value

Blackwood (3500 crowns)

Ascending Tide (1500 crowns)

Firesong (2000 crowns)

Lost Depths (1500 crowns)

The total crown value that I received was 14700 crowns worth of stuff, if I were to buy them each from the store at individual crown prices. This is 107.98 worth of merchandise.

Next year I'll receive

No house = 0 crowns
New Chapter = 3500 crowns
1 DLC dungeon pack = 1500 crowns
1 system. Let's be optimistic and say this system has the same value as entire Q4 DLC release, and that I'll get it with plus, for the sake of argument. 2000 crowns

That's 7000 crowns of value. This is 54.98 dollars of value.

Even if you say well let's not compare having a house to not having a house because maybe this year was a one time thing, that's still 1500 crowns less. Which is 14.99 less value.

I valued Q1 at the normal dungeons pack price, because they already told us that the first half of the year will not see a change.

Q2 for ESO+ is High Isle, a known value

Q3 is 0.00 because they already told us not to expect value in terms of content this quarter, but instead that it will work on bug fixes. The system was not stated to be replacing this value, only Q4.

Q4 is the only unknown value. I set it for the sake of argument at the same value as what it was replacing. This is because they told us this what we can expect. Small zone dlc is 2000 crowns. You can choose to withold judgment because it might exceed the expectations and be worth more than the Q4 DLC. But, it's not unreasonable for others to set the expectation only at in what is in the letter, which that it will simply replace Q4.

if Q3 has QoL, that is content, just one that we are not expected to pay for, which if i had to say, is more benefit to eso population as a whole

i still dont understand the whole lost value thing, we could just you know revert back to the first year of the game where the sub was REQUIRED to play at all, period

ESO as a whole sure. But fixes are something they are supposed to do, not content they sell with a retail value. They are also NOT part of ESO plus. I am not talking about the game as a whole, I am talking about the plus benefits (which we pay for) in specific.

BlueRaven

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I have not seen any argument at all based on detailed information concerning the sum and total of each of the three content DLCs will have compared to what we have been receiving in both quality and quantity.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

This year I received

Water's Edge House available for coin (Blackwood chapter) 6200 crown value

Blackwood (3500 crowns)

Ascending Tide (1500 crowns)

Firesong (2000 crowns)

Lost Depths (1500 crowns)

The total crown value that I received was 14700 crowns worth of stuff, if I were to buy them each from the store at individual crown prices. This is 107.98 worth of merchandise.

Next year I'll receive

No house = 0 crowns
New Chapter = 3500 crowns
1 DLC dungeon pack = 1500 crowns
1 system. Let's be optimistic and say this system has the same value as entire Q4 DLC release, and that I'll get it with plus, for the sake of argument. 2000 crowns

That's 7000 crowns of value. This is 54.98 dollars of value.

Even if you say well let's not compare having a house to not having a house because maybe this year was a one time thing, that's still 1500 crowns less. Which is 14.99 less value.

I valued Q1 at the normal dungeons pack price, because they already told us that the first half of the year will not see a change.

Q2 for ESO+ is High Isle, a known value

Q3 is 0.00 because they already told us not to expect value in terms of content this quarter, but instead that it will work on bug fixes. The system was not stated to be replacing this value, only Q4.

Q4 is the only unknown value. I set it for the sake of argument at the same value as what it was replacing. This is because they told us this what we can expect. Small zone dlc is 2000 crowns. You can choose to withold judgment because it might exceed the expectations and be worth more than the Q4 DLC. But, it's not unreasonable for others to set the expectation only at in what is in the letter, which that it will simply replace Q4.

That’s a nice breakdown.

But keep in mind the new “system” they are apparently introducing could be for everyone not just eso+ players. As far as we know it could CP 3.0.

For me, an eso+ subscriber, after reading what next year will be like, I am seeing no added content for eso+ after Q1.

DMuehlhausen

BlueRaven wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

G0K4R wrote: »

MrSpaM wrote: »

Pretty much all of the value comes from the crafting bag, so as long as that is still there then you're not really losing anything tbh

I can agree with this.

I don't care about anything but the crafting back and inventory slots. And probably many others can relate...

Tho it's frustrating in general atm. I cancel my sub every month cause I can't be sure wheather I wan't to keep playing next month. It's rly sad.

So many people here, willing to pay the same for less services. and have no issues with it.

This is a worrying sign for the future.

Or maybe, just maybe, a lot of people only subbed for the craft bag? If people can claim we're losing value based on the small amount of information we have now, you can't turn around and say people who never used that "value" are a problem. Just as many people sub for only the craft bag as they do for other perks of a sub. I've seen plenty of people say over the years they only sub for the craft bag, because that's the thing that has the most value to them. They're not lesser than people who only subbed for double bank space or for access to all DLC.

So you are in the pro stripping value from eso+ camp then?

I have never seen such a vigorous argument that getting less value for your money is fine.

I am not disabled, but if the town stripped away services for them I would not stand up and go “Maybe, just maybe not everyone needs those services.”

People feel they are getting less for their eso+ subscription. Maybe, just maybe they are allowed to complain about that. This pushback, this defending, of getting less value is just crazy to me.

Actually most people don't feel they are losing any value at all. Cause as the person you quoted and threw one heck of a straw man argument against said. It's the crafting bag. Almost everyone I know subs simply for the crafting bag. They could take basically everything else away and leave just the bag and many people would still happily sub. My guess is you didn't play pre eso+ crafting bag. Where basically 1 or 2 nights a week you had a min of 5 hour game session that was nothing but managing your inventory due to crafting mats.

So yeah the value is still 110% there for majority of subscribers.

Elsonso

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i still dont understand the whole lost value thing, we could just you know revert back to the first year of the game where the sub was REQUIRED to play at all, period

Previously, we got QoL and a new System in a year along with the dungeons and zones. Now they are separated out and the dungeons and zone are gone from the plan.

TBD what impact that this will have on ESO Plus, but we already seem to be down 2 dungeons and a zone.

spartaxoxo

BlueRaven wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I have not seen any argument at all based on detailed information concerning the sum and total of each of the three content DLCs will have compared to what we have been receiving in both quality and quantity.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

This year I received

Water's Edge House available for coin (Blackwood chapter) 6200 crown value

Blackwood (3500 crowns)

Ascending Tide (1500 crowns)

Firesong (2000 crowns)

Lost Depths (1500 crowns)

The total crown value that I received was 14700 crowns worth of stuff, if I were to buy them each from the store at individual crown prices. This is 107.98 worth of merchandise.

Next year I'll receive

No house = 0 crowns
New Chapter = 3500 crowns
1 DLC dungeon pack = 1500 crowns
1 system. Let's be optimistic and say this system has the same value as entire Q4 DLC release, and that I'll get it with plus, for the sake of argument. 2000 crowns

That's 7000 crowns of value. This is 54.98 dollars of value.

Even if you say well let's not compare having a house to not having a house because maybe this year was a one time thing, that's still 1500 crowns less. Which is 14.99 less value.

I valued Q1 at the normal dungeons pack price, because they already told us that the first half of the year will not see a change.

Q2 for ESO+ is High Isle, a known value

Q3 is 0.00 because they already told us not to expect value in terms of content this quarter, but instead that it will work on bug fixes. The system was not stated to be replacing this value, only Q4.

Q4 is the only unknown value. I set it for the sake of argument at the same value as what it was replacing. This is because they told us this what we can expect. Small zone dlc is 2000 crowns. You can choose to withold judgment because it might exceed the expectations and be worth more than the Q4 DLC. But, it's not unreasonable for others to set the expectation only at in what is in the letter, which that it will simply replace Q4.

That’s a nice breakdown.

But keep in mind the new “system” they are apparently introducing could be for everyone not just eso+ players. As far as we know it could CP 3.0.

For me, an eso+ subscriber, after reading what next year will be like, I am seeing no added content for eso+ after Q1.

I set the value of Q4 to the maximum level described in the letter, just for the sake of argument tbh.

The first year of the Daedric War arc (starts with Morrowind) gave us

2 Dungeons DLCs (4 total dungeons)
1 chapter and 1 small zone DLC worth of handcrafted quests, while still delivering a multi-year story arc.
3 systems
2 Trials
And an achievement house

And I don't expect next year to be at that same level. I don't think whatever this one system is will be worth the 3 systems from the last story arc.

ETA:

The 3 systems added, for those that may not remember or weren't here, were a new class (Warden), a new pvp mode (battlegrounds), and the transmutation system.