ESO+ just lost a significant amount of value

boi_anachronism_

spartaxoxo wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Consider this ZOS "renovation".

This would be a fair point if it was just supposed to be a one time thing, but it's supposed to be the new content cadence. So, it's more like they are removing the climbing wall, but they are putting in a some undisclosed water thing. Even if it's something everyone might like a pool or a jacuzzi, it would be incorrect to say climbing isn't lost.

Not really. They aren't putting something in the game that is contrary to the game. It's not like they took out pvp and put in a packman simulator. In fact it could be argue that ToT was exactly what you are describing way more then this situation. They aren't removing a facet of the game, they are fixing the framework so they can add more stable updates going forward which exactly lines up with the example I gave. And again, this is not set in stone they said already that this will be adjusted as necessary going forward. If they get to the point that they have fixed the framework more content will very likely be added again because they won't need the same manpower directed towards major coding overhauls

spartaxoxo

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Consider this ZOS "renovation".

This would be a fair point if it was just supposed to be a one time thing, but it's supposed to be the new content cadence. So, it's more like they are removing the climbing wall, but they are putting in a some undisclosed water thing. Even if it's something everyone might like a pool or a jacuzzi, it would be incorrect to say climbing isn't lost.

Not really. They aren't putting something in the game that is contrary to the game.

A pool isn't contrary to a gym, it's just different to climbing. Plenty of people swim as a workout. A system isn't contrary to an MMO, but it is different to the small zone story dlc packs we used to get.

They have removed small zone story DLCs and a dungeon pack for the foreseeable future.

boi_anachronism_

spartaxoxo wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Consider this ZOS "renovation".

This would be a fair point if it was just supposed to be a one time thing, but it's supposed to be the new content cadence. So, it's more like they are removing the climbing wall, but they are putting in a some undisclosed water thing. Even if it's something everyone might like a pool or a jacuzzi, it would be incorrect to say climbing isn't lost.

Not really. They aren't putting something in the game that is contrary to the game.

A pool isn't contrary to a gym, it's just different to climbing. Plenty of people swim as a workout. A system isn't contrary to an MMO, but it is different to the small zone story dlc packs we used to get.

They have removed small zone story DLCs and a dungeon pack for the foreseeable future.

No I'm afraid not. No climbing gym houses a pool because it is 100% contrary as you can not climb in a moist environment bud. It's physically impossible because you get no friction. So yes they are diametrically opposed in every sense. Not the same thing. Climbing gyms are there own thing with their own highly specific needs very much like live service MMOs are not the same as a single player game like GoW.

spartaxoxo

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Consider this ZOS "renovation".

This would be a fair point if it was just supposed to be a one time thing, but it's supposed to be the new content cadence. So, it's more like they are removing the climbing wall, but they are putting in a some undisclosed water thing. Even if it's something everyone might like a pool or a jacuzzi, it would be incorrect to say climbing isn't lost.

Not really. They aren't putting something in the game that is contrary to the game.

A pool isn't contrary to a gym, it's just different to climbing. Plenty of people swim as a workout. A system isn't contrary to an MMO, but it is different to the small zone story dlc packs we used to get.

They have removed small zone story DLCs and a dungeon pack for the foreseeable future.

No I'm afraid not. No climbing gym houses a pool because it is 100% contrary as you can not climb in a moist environment bud. It's physically impossible because you get no friction. So yes they are diametrically opposed in every sense. Not the same thing. Climbing gyms are there own thing with their own highly specific needs very much like live service MMOs are not the same as a single player game like GoW.

My local fitness center has both a pool and a climbing wall. They are obviously not housed in the same part of the facility.

The removal of a climbing wall to facilitate a pool also doesn't require the climbing wall to exist anymore.


ETA



We aren't getting some zone DLCs or a 2nd dungeon pack anymore. We're getting a system and bug fixes instead.

boi_anachronism_

"your local fitness center" is the equivalent of the ymca it is not a climbing gym bud. They are not the same thing at all. Climbers don't go to our gym for basic fitness we go to train for a very specific thing. That's all it is. It's not a wall of ellipticals, or boxing, it's sole purpose is that. We have specialized equipment for training grip strength, technical classes, and sometimes yoga because flexibility in Paramount. Anything else we have is designed to specifically facilitate that. I've been doing it for 10 years sunshine. There's wrong and there's wrong and then there's you. There is zero equivalency in your comparison.

Your opinion is basically throw new coding on top of the millions of lines of ancient bad coding with the hope it doesn't collapse because you want more. More just for the sake of it. Idk how much you know about coding but you can't add more to a foundation you are currently tearing out it's impossible. You need to build to be compatible with what you have. Either we just add more till the game performance causes it to crumble like a house of cards or we fix the system so we can add more going forward. It's one or the other you can't have both.

spartaxoxo

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

"your local fitness center" is the equivalent of the ymca it is not a climbing gym bud.

The original comparison was a gym, not your personal climbing gym. I was discussing a gym, not your personal climbing gym.

They can have done bug fixes for games at the same time as releasing new content. They have been doing it for years, did it while working on the server re-architecure, and many games manage to do them without cutting out half their yearly content. They're going to be doing it around the time of the chapter launch too.

They are doing it this way to increase quality of content.

boi_anachronism_

spartaxoxo wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

"your local fitness center" is the equivalent of the ymca it is not a climbing gym bud.

The original comparison was a gym, not your personal climbing gym. I was discussing a gym, not your personal climbing gym.

They can have done bug fixes for games at the same time as releasing new content. They have been doing it for years, did it while working on the server re-architecure, and many games manage to do them without cutting out half their yearly content. They're going to be doing it around the time of the chapter launch too.

They are doing it this way to increase quality of content.

No. My comparison was specific to my gym because it had to do with a particular kind of foundational change for longevity of that thing and context was important for the comparison I was making. This isn't some random bug fix, what they have done is a microcosm of what needs to be done, it's been bandaid fixes. I don't know how you cant see that with performance constantly degrading. They have said over and over and over in interviews when discussing why certain older content hasn't been fixed... They need a tremendous amount of man power allocated to accomplish it and they couldn't do it without sacrificing in other areas. It has now gotten so bad that they have no other choice. Millions of lines of coding. if you want to understand what a true overhaul looks like look no further then FF14. They literally shutdown the entire server to fix it and relaunched the whole damn thing and that's what it's gonna come to if we continue how things were going. This is the same group of people that are mad that the road has potholes everywhere but don't want construction on the roads. I repeat you can't do the kind of overhaul needed at the same time. Period.

spartaxoxo

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

"your local fitness center" is the equivalent of the ymca it is not a climbing gym bud.

The original comparison was a gym, not your personal climbing gym. I was discussing a gym, not your personal climbing gym.

They can have done bug fixes for games at the same time as releasing new content. They have been doing it for years, did it while working on the server re-architecure, and many games manage to do them without cutting out half their yearly content. They're going to be doing it around the time of the chapter launch too.

They are doing it this way to increase quality of content.

No. My comparison was specific to my gym because it had to do with a particular kind of foundational change for longevity of that thing and context was important for the comparison I was making.

No. It is wasn't though. Your personal gym isn't the only gym that might need to make renovations. Beyond that, my point was different to your point. My point didn't rely on me knowing the particulars of where you worked out.

The gym had a rock wall, and now it doesn't. They removed it to renovate. The announced new feature is some kind of water thing. A pool is not wall. A system is not a small zone dlc.

You can make the argument that the gym will be better off with a pool. You can make the argument that the renovations are more important than the wall. You cannot make the argument that the wall was not lost. And the since the wall has value, and that value is now lost.

Likewise, you can make the argument the game needs to cut back on content. You can make the argument the game will be better to focus on systems rather than handcrafted experiences. You cannot make the argument that small zone dlcs and a second dungeon pack weren't lost. Therefore, something of value was lost.

They already did the bulk of the work for the server re-architecure while making new content. The Q3 qol patch is not stated to be bigger than that.

I never stated that they should do small zone dlcs anyway, that they should give refunds, etc. That's the thread putting words in my mouth.

The opening post states simply "we lost value," and asks if anything will be done with plus. That's it.

boi_anachronism_

No you completely derailed from the purpose of the point using false equivalency. The comparison made sense in the context of what I was saying and you generalized it. If I went to your fitness center is be totally cool if they put in a brand new pool to replace dilapidated broke down rock wall. One thing works one doesn't. That simple.

You say loss as if the shallow excuse for content we got this year was a great loss. I see much more value in fixing the system then adding half-assed dlcs. And no WE didn't lose value. You did apparently. I am getting something 1000% more valuable which is longevity. I feel like I wasted my money this year if anything. IF they don't follow through then I would concede the point otherwise I'll die on this hill cause I'd like to see this game last more then another year. And btw how long did the rearchitecture take? Last I checked they were working on it for a year+? So for argument sake if it is even 3/4 the size of that it's 9 months of work in 3. I'm good with that.

spartaxoxo

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

No you completely derailed from the purpose of the point using false equivalency. The comparison made sense in the context of what I was saying and you generalized it.

No. I didn't. Your point was that it was better for the health of the game that repairs are made. And I countered that it was besides the point of the thread, because the point of the thread was that something of value was lost.

It might not matter to you. But it existed as part of your ESO+ and now it doesn't. What was lost has a retail value that was part of your sub. A retail value that I can use to make a price comparison between what was added on new this year, and what will be added on next year. So, now there will be less stuff that is part of Plus.

boi_anachronism_

spartaxoxo wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

No you completely derailed from the purpose of the point using false equivalency. The comparison made sense in the context of what I was saying and you generalized it.

No. I didn't. Your point was that it was better for the health of the game that repairs are made. And I countered that it was besides the point of the thread, because the point of the thread was that something of value was lost. It might not matter to you. But it existed as part of your ESO+ and now it doesn't. What was lost has a retail value that was part of your sub. A retail value that I can use to make a price comparison between what was added on new this year, and what will be added on next year. So, now there will be less stuff that is part of Plus.

You are acting as if we always had the same cadence of dlcs. We did not. Changes have been made over the years so to say we lost something is to infer that we were ironclad promised exactly the same cadence for the life span of the game. You could make that argument when dlcs have been given away for free in the past.

spartaxoxo

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

No you completely derailed from the purpose of the point using false equivalency. The comparison made sense in the context of what I was saying and you generalized it.

No. I didn't. Your point was that it was better for the health of the game that repairs are made. And I countered that it was besides the point of the thread, because the point of the thread was that something of value was lost. It might not matter to you. But it existed as part of your ESO+ and now it doesn't. What was lost has a retail value that was part of your sub. A retail value that I can use to make a price comparison between what was added on new this year, and what will be added on next year. So, now there will be less stuff that is part of Plus.

You are acting as if we always had the same cadence of dlcs. We did not. Changes have been made over the years so to say we lost something is to infer that we were ironclad promised exactly the same cadence for the life span of the game. You could make that argument when dlcs have been given away for free in the past.

No. Actually. It doesn't require an ironclad contract to lose value.

Products change over time, but we can still compare the prices of goods and services from one year to the next.

vsrs_au

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Luede wrote: »

the bottom line is that most will keep eso+, regardless of how little it brings, since most won't want to play without the craft bag.

For me, ESO Plus has always been about the Craft Bag, because I had already purchased all of the available DLCs before I finally decided to pay for an ESO Plus subscription. The fact that I already had access to all DLC content kept me away from ESO Plus at first, since I felt that I wouldn't be getting the "full value" from it. But after looking at the number of Crowns I'd be getting with the subscription, along with that all-important Craft Bag and the doubled Bank and Housing space, it was obvious to me that ESO Plus was a good investment with or without access to the DLC "rentals." And given that conclusion, I've had no hesitation to continue buying the DLCs upon their release despite having ESO Plus, even if I've been given a DLC for free as an event reward, since I always buy the Collectors Editions.

Same here, actually, I subscribed to ESO Plus for the first time a few days ago. I already own most of the chapters/DLCs, but really needed the craft bag, because I'd finally decided to start working on the crafting skill lines.

BlueRaven

vsrs_au wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Luede wrote: »

the bottom line is that most will keep eso+, regardless of how little it brings, since most won't want to play without the craft bag.

For me, ESO Plus has always been about the Craft Bag, because I had already purchased all of the available DLCs before I finally decided to pay for an ESO Plus subscription. The fact that I already had access to all DLC content kept me away from ESO Plus at first, since I felt that I wouldn't be getting the "full value" from it. But after looking at the number of Crowns I'd be getting with the subscription, along with that all-important Craft Bag and the doubled Bank and Housing space, it was obvious to me that ESO Plus was a good investment with or without access to the DLC "rentals." And given that conclusion, I've had no hesitation to continue buying the DLCs upon their release despite having ESO Plus, even if I've been given a DLC for free as an event reward, since I always buy the Collectors Editions.

Same here, actually, I subscribed to ESO Plus for the first time a few days ago. I already own most of the chapters/DLCs, but really needed the craft bag, because I'd finally decided to start working on the crafting skill lines.

I don’t understand your argument.

So they could take away the crowns and you would still be good with it?

I am just curious about how much they can take away from eso+ before it becomes a problem for you.

BlueRaven

Hey eso developers!

Good news!

You apparently can take away everything from eso+ (but the craft bag) and people will still defend your decision.
…

That’s what you who see no problem in what zos is doing are saying, right?

@spartaxoxo @boi_anachronism_

A better example is property taxes.

Where for the same property taxes they have announced they are cutting back on yearly road repair. And you are confronted with people who say “Well I just pay it for the garbage pick up, so it’s still a good deal.”

…

The bottom line.
Less future dlcs means less value for eso+. Future adventures I can look forward to are gone. Eso+ gave me a craft bag, but it also gave me an implied promise of access to future dlcs, of future narrative progress for my characters.
Now, if I want new adventures, I need to look outside of eso. Q3 and Q4 just looks bleak. And that makes the value of eso+ smaller. If I am not playing eso, than what value is eso+?

Darkstorne

BlueRaven wrote: »

Hey eso developers!

Good news!

You apparently can take away everything from eso+ (but the craft bag) and people will still defend your decision.
…

That’s what you who see no problem in what zos is doing are saying, right?

@spartaxoxo @boi_anachronism_

A better example is property taxes.

Where for the same property taxes they have announced they are cutting back on yearly road repair. And you are confronted with people who say “Well I just pay it for the garbage pick up, so it’s still a good deal.”

…

The bottom line.
Less future dlcs means less value for eso+. Future adventures I can look forward to are gone. Eso+ gave me a craft bag, but it also gave me an implied promise of access to future dlcs, of future narrative progress for my characters.
Now, if I want new adventures, I need to look outside of eso. Q3 and Q4 just looks bleak. And that makes the value of eso+ smaller. If I am not playing eso, than what value is eso+?

It's certainly wild that the original value proposition of ESO+ was "free" access to all the upcoming DLC. There was a minor outrage when Chapters were announced as specifically not DLC, so Orsinium-sized content would no longer be included in ESO+, and now we seem to be reduced to a single dungeon DLC each year.

Maybe they'll announce something new for ESO+ subscribers at the January reveal event to try and offset the DLC loss. They should certainly offer something, even if it's just an increase to the monthly Crowns granted. Dropping from 3 to 1 DLC without any change to the pricing model is... well it's something alright.

Number_51

spartaxoxo wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Consider this ZOS "renovation".

This would be a fair point if it was just supposed to be a one time thing, but it's supposed to be the new content cadence. So, it's more like they are removing the climbing wall, but they are putting in a some undisclosed water thing. Even if it's something everyone might like a pool or a jacuzzi, it would be incorrect to say climbing isn't lost.

But you're not losing the climbing wall. In fact in Q3 they'll have the opportunity to improve the climbing wall. And they're still adding the pool, just not the pool and jacuzzi that was originally planned the prior year.

Elsonso

Am I the only one that thinks "the gym" has run its course? Can we switch back to automobile analogies? Maybe grocery stores? Otters?

Darkstorne wrote: »

It's certainly wild that the original value proposition of ESO+ was "free" access to all the upcoming DLC. There was a minor outrage when Chapters were announced as specifically not DLC, so Orsinium-sized content would no longer be included in ESO+, and now we seem to be reduced to a single dungeon DLC each year.

Maybe they'll announce something new for ESO+ subscribers at the January reveal event to try and offset the DLC loss. They should certainly offer something, even if it's just an increase to the monthly Crowns granted. Dropping from 3 to 1 DLC without any change to the pricing model is... well it's something alright.

ESO Plus hasn't had anything substantially new added in a while, so it is certainly ripe for an upgrade. With the downgrade coming in 2023, it is even more important that they don't do something that will cost them subscriber revenue. Depending on the Crafting Bag to hold people in line may not work on everyone. It will be interesting to see what sort of carrot they toss out in January, or if they are just going to blithely assume that everyone will stay in the boat.

TaSheen

Elsonso wrote: »

Am I the only one that thinks "the gym" has run its course? Can we switch back to automobile analogies? Maybe grocery stores? Otters?

ESO Plus hasn't had anything substantially new added in a while, so it is certainly ripe for an upgrade. With the downgrade coming in 2023, it is even more important that they don't do something that will cost them subscriber revenue. Depending on the Crafting Bag to hold people in line may not work on everyone. It will be interesting to see what sort of carrot they toss out in January, or if they are just going to blithely assume that everyone will stay in the boat.

Well.... I canceled renewals on 3 annual subs. I'll see what the reveal says is going to happen, but though I've always subbed to MMOs, if the content is going to be reduced, I won't renew subs. I can get along fine without the craft bag - I already have all the mules anyone could ever need.

spartaxoxo

Darkstorne wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Hey eso developers!

Good news!

You apparently can take away everything from eso+ (but the craft bag) and people will still defend your decision.
…

That’s what you who see no problem in what zos is doing are saying, right?

@spartaxoxo @boi_anachronism_

A better example is property taxes.

Where for the same property taxes they have announced they are cutting back on yearly road repair. And you are confronted with people who say “Well I just pay it for the garbage pick up, so it’s still a good deal.”

…

The bottom line.
Less future dlcs means less value for eso+. Future adventures I can look forward to are gone. Eso+ gave me a craft bag, but it also gave me an implied promise of access to future dlcs, of future narrative progress for my characters.
Now, if I want new adventures, I need to look outside of eso. Q3 and Q4 just looks bleak. And that makes the value of eso+ smaller. If I am not playing eso, than what value is eso+?

It's certainly wild that the original value proposition of ESO+ was "free" access to all the upcoming DLC. There was a minor outrage when Chapters were announced as specifically not DLC, so Orsinium-sized content would no longer be included in ESO+, and now we seem to be reduced to a single dungeon DLC each year.

Maybe they'll announce something new for ESO+ subscribers at the January reveal event to try and offset the DLC loss. They should certainly offer something, even if it's just an increase to the monthly Crowns granted. Dropping from 3 to 1 DLC without any change to the pricing model is... well it's something alright.

What's wild to me is that when crown crates were removed from free plus days for plus subscribers, people complained about how ESO+ lost some value and we ended up with the free statuettes. This was not considered nearly as controversial even though crates aren't even a real part of ESO+.

But viewing losing 2 future DLCs every year for the foreseeable future is apparently. 🤷🏿‍♀️

Amottica

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Number_51 wrote: »

The analogies with steaks and burgers and fries are flawed in that those are consumables. You use them once and they're gone. This is more like a gym membership where for $20/month you can use 3 sets of equipment. The next month, and still for $20, you can use those same 3 plus 3 other pieces of equipment. Then the next month it changes. It's still $20/month, but now you can use those same 6 and they only add 1 more piece of equipment. It's still value added, just at a lower rate.

Chapters are the gymnasium you have to rent out separately.

Fair enough. The point is that the lower rate represents a decrease in value from the previous year.

Not necessarily and with the information we have we do not know this. Quality is significantly more important than quantity to start with. While we know we will get fewer content updates per year we do not truly know if that actually means less overall content being added to the game.

Granted, it is everyone's right to think their dollar has lost value here before opening the package, but it is pretty much just pure speculation and guessing as to the benefit or lack of that these changes will bring. Nothing more than that at this time.

spartaxoxo

Amottica wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Number_51 wrote: »

The analogies with steaks and burgers and fries are flawed in that those are consumables. You use them once and they're gone. This is more like a gym membership where for $20/month you can use 3 sets of equipment. The next month, and still for $20, you can use those same 3 plus 3 other pieces of equipment. Then the next month it changes. It's still $20/month, but now you can use those same 6 and they only add 1 more piece of equipment. It's still value added, just at a lower rate.

Chapters are the gymnasium you have to rent out separately.

Fair enough. The point is that the lower rate represents a decrease in value from the previous year.

Not necessarily and with the information we have we do not know this. Quality is significantly more important than quantity to start with.

ESO+ and the game are two related but different things. They can't improve ESO+ with something that is for the entire game and doesn't add content. That's not a plus benefit, that's a game benefit.

We already know that we have lost the 3rd quarter dungeon dlc for bug fixes. Will we get a better quality game thanks to that? Perhaps. Most likely. Will plus be improved by it? Absolutely not. There is now new content being accessed for free, or no perks associated with a bug fix.

We can't make a comparison between the small zone dlc and the new system, other than to note that new systems were already part of every single year. So, the mere presence of a new system in and of itself can't replace a small zone dlc.

But, we absolutely can say ESO+ has lowered during Q3.

TaSheen

Well, I don't personally feel that the quality is going to ramp out of sight. I loved Blackwood and High Isle (though didn't/don't care for Deadlands) and Galen is truly wonderful. I didn't fine Western Skyrim wonderful at all for quality. So if we get more stuff similar to W Skyrim, I won't think it's an upgrade in quality, and I won't be best pleased.

Yes yes. I'm fully aware I'm a minority of one.

spartaxoxo

TaSheen wrote: »

Well, I don't personally feel that the quality is going to ramp out of sight. I loved Blackwood and High Isle (though didn't/don't care for Deadlands) and Galen is truly wonderful. I didn't fine Western Skyrim wonderful at all for quality. So if we get more stuff similar to W Skyrim, I won't think it's an upgrade in quality, and I won't be best pleased.

Yes yes. I'm fully aware I'm a minority of one.

The chapter will presumably be more like Morrowind in terms of quality.

They already told us that the first half of the year isn't going to see significant change, and that their goal was to reduce handcrafted quests. So, you should probably view it like Morrowind.

DMuehlhausen

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

I think people need to realize ZOS is almost certainly sunsetting ESO. There is every indication that this is what's going on when you look at the bugs not fixed, the smaller content releases, the lack of any kind of communication, etc.....every indicator is that ZOS is pulling back from their investment in ESO.

This is part of why I cancelled my ESO+ sub after 8 years when U35 was on the PTS. Look around and see what's going on.

Yes they are going to sunset possibly the most subbed to MMO currently on the market.

spartaxoxo

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

I think people need to realize ZOS is almost certainly sunsetting ESO. There is every indication that this is what's going on when you look at the bugs not fixed, the smaller content releases, the lack of any kind of communication, etc.....every indicator is that ZOS is pulling back from their investment in ESO.

This is part of why I cancelled my ESO+ sub after 8 years when U35 was on the PTS. Look around and see what's going on.

Yes they are going to sunset possibly the most subbed to MMO currently on the market.

While there's no doubt ESO is one of the most profitable games on the market, there's no way it holds that title over say something like FF14 or WoW.

TaSheen

spartaxoxo wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Well, I don't personally feel that the quality is going to ramp out of sight. I loved Blackwood and High Isle (though didn't/don't care for Deadlands) and Galen is truly wonderful. I didn't fine Western Skyrim wonderful at all for quality. So if we get more stuff similar to W Skyrim, I won't think it's an upgrade in quality, and I won't be best pleased.

Yes yes. I'm fully aware I'm a minority of one.

The chapter will presumably be more like Morrowind in terms of quality.

They already told us that the first half of the year isn't going to see significant change, and that their goal was to reduce handcrafted quests. So, you should probably view it like Morrowind.

*shrug* I wasn't pleased at all with Morrowind - neither TES III (which I didn't even complete the MQ in, nor spend more than around fifty hours in - the only one of the single player games for which that's true) nor ESO's version. And besides, you don't consider Morrowind had handcrafted quests?

Necrotech_Master

i would agree more with @boi_anachronism_ on this

we arent necessarily paying ESO+ just for new content, since they still sell that content anyway, we are also paying for them to maintain the game, and if this year has anything to say, its that they clearly have a lot of fundamental code issues going on if they managed to have severe launch issues on at least 3 of the 4 major releases this year lol

they also had severe launch issues with greymoor (if anyone remembers that and the lagfest that western skyrim/blackreach was during launch lol), although these were fixed faster (<1 week), which is why i usually say i go for the other benefits of eso+ such as the craft bag and bank space etc, you dont get these benefits playing for free, now whether you can deal with it or not is up to you, i prefer the convenience

i usually just spend the crown stipend on the dlcs anyway so if i lost eso+ i wouldnt lose the content, so in that regard ESO+ doesnt matter at all, i was never "getting" free content with eso+ because i didnt want to rely on eso+ to access the content

losing a dungeon DLC for more QoL and base game improvements that improve everyones experience is what i would rather have, i would pay for eso+ either way because A) i want to support the game and B ) what good is new content when its (lately) sometimes been borderline unplayable anyway

spartaxoxo

TaSheen wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Well, I don't personally feel that the quality is going to ramp out of sight. I loved Blackwood and High Isle (though didn't/don't care for Deadlands) and Galen is truly wonderful. I didn't fine Western Skyrim wonderful at all for quality. So if we get more stuff similar to W Skyrim, I won't think it's an upgrade in quality, and I won't be best pleased.

Yes yes. I'm fully aware I'm a minority of one.

The chapter will presumably be more like Morrowind in terms of quality.

They already told us that the first half of the year isn't going to see significant change, and that their goal was to reduce handcrafted quests. So, you should probably view it like Morrowind.

*shrug* I wasn't pleased at all with Morrowind - neither TES III (which I didn't even complete the MQ in, nor spend more than around fifty hours in - the only one of the single player games for which that's true) nor ESO's version. And besides, you don't consider Morrowind had handcrafted quests?

No. It has handcrafted quests. The ones we're losing is the small zone dlc, so for that year it would be like getting Morrowind but not Clockwork City.

The reason I mentioned Morrowind as a likely comparison in terms of quality (don't mean setting) is because Morrowind introduced a much requested new feature and was the start of a story arc. The developers mentioned that they wanted to go back to story arcs like the Daedric War.

spartaxoxo

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

losing a dungeon DLC for more QoL and base game improvements that improve everyones experience is what i would rather have, i would pay for eso+ either way because A) i want to support the game and B ) what good is new content when its (lately) sometimes been borderline unplayable anyway

It shouldn't be a choice. But beyond that, whether you would use the DLC or not, it's still around 1500 crowns of retail value off of your sub. And I never asked them to still put in the dungeon dlc anyway.

When the pulled crown crates out of the free plus days for plus subscribers, they gave us statuettes as compensation. This was certainly a smaller loss than a dungeon dlc and a small zone dlc. Crates wasn't even part of plus, dlc access is


At the very least they should give us something like 1500 more crowns as part of plus imo. I'm not asking to change the cadence, I asked if plus would get an adjustment to the value it lost.