2022: ESO's Worst Year, A Retrospective

Ishtarknows

Eric_Prince wrote: »

You know, I remember all the similar posts in the previous years.

Greymoor. 'WOO! [snip]! Antiquities is a lazy boring mobile game! We need a new class/skill line/combat feature/PvP thing'.

Blackwood. 'WOO! [snip]! Companions are so lame! Stupid worthless NPCs that can't hold aggro like a real player! We need a new class/skill line/combat feature/PvP thing'.

And now...

High Isle. 'WOO! [snip]! Card game is so lame! Stupid worthless mobile game! We need a new class/skill line/combat feature/PvP thing'.

[snip]
[edited for baiting & profanity bypass]

Any I heartily agree with every word. I joined ESO at Summerset launch and I'm kinda sad that was the pinnacle of the Chapters. Elsweyr was great too, but it's been downhill since Skyrim. Mythics add an extra dimension to combat but I have no need, want nor interest in companions or card games .

Dragonredux

Guys I love the game to death but let's be real here. If this game didn't have The Elder Scrolls brand this game would have died a while ago. The brand is keeping this game afloat and I just want the dev team to do better. I had too many guild mates and friends play less or not even log in and they are casual players that barely seen a vet dungeon.

tmbrinks

Kingsindarkness wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Kingsindarkness wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Things changing in a way that some players don't like doesn't mean that the game is bad or is getting worse.

Over 7000 players leaving is bad

Is there really concrete indisputable evidence for that though?

Even so, only 7k?

Really?

I just don't see getting worked up over that.

If the 7k is ONLY players who play ESO on steam on PC... you have to multiply by at least 2 or 3 to account for the PC players that don't use steam (2 if it's a 50/50 split, 3 if it's a 33/67 split, etc... ) and based on past polls on the forums of PC players... it's probably closer to a 25/75% split... so maybe even 4. (But I'll choose the middle, 3x)

Then multiply by 3 to account for the players on XBox and PS servers (as they don't have a steam option), and ZoS has stated the population is mostly evenly split between the 3 megaservers.

Suddenly your 7k is closer to 63k players lost.... and that is a sizable number.

Other option is to look at percentage change, 25% of players, stopped playing.

Most business would go under if 25% of their workforce quit. The same logic holds here.

No matter how you look at it... ESO is bleeding players.

While I haven't quit... my playtime is significantly lessened, and ESO is no longer my "Main Game"... it's at least sharing that title with another at this time.

But all of that is just conjecture to fit a narrative.

I'll wait for actual numbers before I get worried.

You won't get actual numbers. ZoS will never release them. They'll only tell you "total accounts", a number that can only increase.

Unfortunately, that "narrative" is consistent across multiple metrics (albeit all anecdotal).

Steam numbers (the only concrete player count we have) - down.
Threads about players unhappy with the game - up.
Numbers of players in my guilds and friends lists playing - down.

They all point to the same conclusion.

But, if there's one thing I've learned over the past 4 years... is that even with all the signs pointing towards one conclusion, some will still argue the opposite, and usually very loudly. And nothing said will change their opinion.

ForumBully

Kingsindarkness wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Things changing in a way that some players don't like doesn't mean that the game is bad or is getting worse.

If the content you and your friends love was changed so heavily that many of them leave the game, that'd be a change that "some players don't like," would that constitute the game getting worse?

Changes that I do not like don't mean that the game itself got worse. It only means that my impression of the game got worse.

Alright, then if we made every single overland mob into a dragon, and made every quest boss a 1v1 fight against Dagon himself you wouldn't like it, but it wouldn't make the game any worse. Gotcha. /s

A game isn't 'good' or 'bad,' and I've played plenty of games with many valid negative reviews and still enjoyed them, but the state of a game is defined by those who engage with it, and turning a blind eye to issues others have doesn't get rid of those issues. ESO gives off an increasingly negative impression to people outside the game as more and more content creators leave or make videos outlining issues they have, and word of mouth from people leaving undermines people's confidence in the game and its developer. Do you know how games die? How long term issues hemorrhaging players and trust ends them? Will that matter to you now, or only when it is your turn to be at the mercy of ZOS's slow and callous response, when all those who tried to speak up before have left?

There is no way they would do something so drastic.

As far as content creators, I do not watch other people play and I base my opinion on my own experiences, and my own likes and dislikes.

ESO is not having its worst year and is not dying.

I'm curious, which year was the worst in your estimation?

Why does there have to be a worst?
Why the incessant need to convince people the game is bleeding players and dying?

it's kinda silly...

Why? Because it's possible to put a set of things into an order based on criteria.
It's not a trick question. Some have ranked 2022 as the "worst", others say it isn't. So I'm curious to know what other years are ranked lower in their opinions?

Nothing about that implies the game is dead or dying.

CP5

SilverBride wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Things changing in a way that some players don't like doesn't mean that the game is bad or is getting worse.

If the content you and your friends love was changed so heavily that many of them leave the game, that'd be a change that "some players don't like," would that constitute the game getting worse?

Changes that I do not like don't mean that the game itself got worse. It only means that my impression of the game got worse.

Alright, then if we made every single overland mob into a dragon, and made every quest boss a 1v1 fight against Dagon himself you wouldn't like it, but it wouldn't make the game any worse. Gotcha. /s

A game isn't 'good' or 'bad,' and I've played plenty of games with many valid negative reviews and still enjoyed them, but the state of a game is defined by those who engage with it, and turning a blind eye to issues others have doesn't get rid of those issues. ESO gives off an increasingly negative impression to people outside the game as more and more content creators leave or make videos outlining issues they have, and word of mouth from people leaving undermines people's confidence in the game and its developer. Do you know how games die? How long term issues hemorrhaging players and trust ends them? Will that matter to you now, or only when it is your turn to be at the mercy of ZOS's slow and callous response, when all those who tried to speak up before have left?

There is no way they would do something so drastic.

As far as content creators, I do not watch other people play and I base my opinion on my own experiences, and my own likes and dislikes.

ESO is not having its worst year and is not dying.

If you looked outside your social sphere, took to heart more of what those players say as sincere and honest, and tried to understand that people who do different things than you in this game can be just as passionate for it, then maybe you could understand how just because your part of the game is fine doesn't mean that other parts of the game are doing just as well. What experience do you have with these other areas, what gauge do you have to compare before and after, were you in a guild that had multiple groups running multiple times a week, with dozens of fantastic people, only to have it wither until the last raid lead finally breaks after having to find last minute fills for half the group week after week? Did you see cyrodiil when ESO launched and armies of players could take part in massive fights without the threat of crashing or having an unresponsive game?

How confident can you be with these claims if you yourself know that you participate in only one part of ESO, the part you enjoy but still only one small section. ESO is a multifaceted game with many different players, eventually the same issues that cause issues for them will come around to you, ZOS's inability to take player feedback and act upon it, like players pointing out bugs on pts or outlining how their intended changes won't reach their intended goals. Thier radio silence on engaging with the community through discussions, see most recently the several months late QnA. To attempt to undermine other people's points and downplay the issue is to encourage things as they are now, but these issues ZOS has with their ability to maintain the game will currently cause the game to end sooner than later, would you rather an uproar now to get ZOS in shape, so the game can last longer, or have people just leave until the ship sinks well sooner than it has any right to.

CE_Nex wrote: »

Hi, I hope you're having a lovely day.

In ragards to this thread, this is my own observation as a PvE endgame player on PC-NA: ESO is not dying, demographics are just shifting. PvE endgame is just not ZOS's focus, and honestly I can see why. Endgame is such a small population. On PC-NA, we have less than 100 unique clears of vDSR HM, and it's been 3 patches since the trial dropped. And, while I do not know for certain, I can assume similar numbers stand true for the other megaservers.

The changes made and the direction of the game in 2022 hasn't been looked upon favorably by the PvE endgame community so there's been an exodos of sorts. From everyone else who's not deep into endgame, the changes are probably welcome and enjoyable. And that's okay. Not everyone will agree to with every change ESO will have. That's normal, happens with every MMO. Some time in the future ESO may have an update which encourages a new generation of endgame raiders but isn't welcome by other subsets of the community. Tis the nature of things.

Happiness and health my friends.

Demographics shifting would suggest other parts of the game are growing proportionally. Pvp surely isn't, so has there been a boom in players doing the overland questing experience? And even beyond that 'population shift' comment, many people take issues with things not tied to combat balance. The performance issues, bugs brought up week 1 pts only to be let into the live game, rewrites of systems like the AWA situation. Even those outside of end game pve have things they can see as problems.

But, is it logical to cut off one leg, so the other gets more blood? ESO offers different types of content which attracts different types of players, I myself came here on the IP alone because of my love for the universe. In my time here, I've shared enough interest the game provides with players I'd have likely never have seen otherwise, and made many good friends that way. What good does an MMO get out of cutting demographics of players out, and what can they gain if the negative impression those players take with them is shared. Who can trust a developer whose willing to sacrifice groups of players in a gamble to gain more?

Treselegant

SammyKhajit wrote: »

This one is reluctant to call this year “the worst” or “a bad game”, more that it is not as enjoyable or exciting as previous years’ offerings. There was an effort to do something new, instead of the same old “the end is nigh” trope, but the promised political intrigues never quite delivered. The scenery and music are all very well done and excellent atmosphere built up, but scenery and music are not enough to carry the whole thing through.

We received two new companions and they are pleasant to hang out with, but again, Isobel and Ember both feel unfinished like Mirri and Bastian. We don’t get much character development, and if you want an example, the Skyrim mod, Inigo, shows the amazing potential of what ZOS could have done with the companions but squandered the opportunity.

The card game was a no for this one, but it was nice to see other players have enjoyed playing it.

2022 is not the worst year for the ESO, just one that did not deliver its promises…

Agreed. There is a real lack of polish in the features added in the last two years - a real 'yeah, that'll do' feeling. I've pretty much kept the same companion for over a year (except when the High Isle event made me use the new ones, so I gave them a fair shake as well) and after a while you start to see the seams, the places where things were not properly finished. There is a real disconnect between the mostly excellent companion quests (though, they are also, seemingly unfinished) and the dialogue given to them for when they are adventuring which makes me wonder at times if they were written by different people. Everything is so very unfinished and un-loved.

Elsonso

tmbrinks wrote: »

Unfortunately, that "narrative" is consistent across multiple metrics (albeit all anecdotal).

Steam numbers (the only concrete player count we have) - down.
Threads about players unhappy with the game - up.
Numbers of players in my guilds and friends lists playing - down.

They all point to the same conclusion.

Actually, they don't all point to the same conclusion.

Forums, as with any social media, suffer from an echo chamber syndrome where people simply repeat "accurate sounding" comments that they like. This is famously rampant on Twitter and Facebook. I have seen it here. Things get talked about well beyond their importance in the larger picture. The number of threads or comments on a subject is largely irrelevant to the overall importance of things. The number of unique perspectives in those threads is what matters. Quality, not quantity. The main reason to keep threads alive is to allow late comers the opportunity to provide their unique perspective. Social media is a very asynchronous means of expressing ideas.

By the measure of guild rosters and friend lists, ESO is already dead. Years ago. Shortly after guilds were introduced, I might add. The ESO population has been dynamic, even nomadic, for years. Players come and go through the revolving door. The guild rosters, the choice of guilds, and friend lists need to be maintained. It is not a set-and-forget. I have been in some active guilds that are still active. I have also been in multiple generations of dead guilds. If someone plays this game long term, my feeling is that they are well outside the popular norms.

Another thing to be aware of is a comment from above that sounds accurate and I need to repeat to fill my social media parrot metric for the day. Demographics shifting.

I do think that the demographics of the game have been shifting. For years, this game has had "hobby PVP" and I think that the serious PVP players shift out of the game once the newness is over. The remaining PVP players are less hard core PVP and more willing to accept things "as-is", or they don't continue to play PVP. If the game ever fixes PVP and the hard core people return, my expectation is that we will see this divide more clearly.

I think that the same is happening to the more serious veteran PVE players looking for a challenge. This game is not that challenging, and once they beat the quarterly dungeons, there isn't going to be a new challenge for a couple more months. On top of that, the builds change quarterly and the whole top tier veteran PVE scene just feels high maintenance, for both the player and the studio. An exodus here would not be a new thing.

I think that the players who do not really fit into either the serious PVP or veteran PVE demographics are dominating the population. More than that, I think that these players are the classic nomadic players who might return for an event, or chapter, or DLC, then go off and play something else for weeks or months. It would help explain a lot of what they have been doing with AwA and Homogenization, but not what they did in Update 35 with "accessibility". Then again, sometimes they use the wrong words and maybe it is just necessary to find the right ones. (ie Hybrid vs Homogenous)

Jaraal

Treselegant wrote: »

SammyKhajit wrote: »

This one is reluctant to call this year “the worst” or “a bad game”, more that it is not as enjoyable or exciting as previous years’ offerings. There was an effort to do something new, instead of the same old “the end is nigh” trope, but the promised political intrigues never quite delivered. The scenery and music are all very well done and excellent atmosphere built up, but scenery and music are not enough to carry the whole thing through.

We received two new companions and they are pleasant to hang out with, but again, Isobel and Ember both feel unfinished like Mirri and Bastian. We don’t get much character development, and if you want an example, the Skyrim mod, Inigo, shows the amazing potential of what ZOS could have done with the companions but squandered the opportunity.

The card game was a no for this one, but it was nice to see other players have enjoyed playing it.

2022 is not the worst year for the ESO, just one that did not deliver its promises…

Agreed. There is a real lack of polish in the features added in the last two years - a real 'yeah, that'll do' feeling. I've pretty much kept the same companion for over a year (except when the High Isle event made me use the new ones, so I gave them a fair shake as well) and after a while you start to see the seams, the places where things were not properly finished. There is a real disconnect between the mostly excellent companion quests (though, they are also, seemingly unfinished) and the dialogue given to them for when they are adventuring which makes me wonder at times if they were written by different people. Everything is so very unfinished and un-loved.

Yes, and this feeling started with the main quest characters, who really created an emotional aspect of the story with the need and willingness to make the ultimate sacrifice for the greater good. But then cheapened when the same characters were brought back to life as if they (and their part in saving Tamriel) never mattered.... but were dug up to sell new content. And the retcon was never even rationalized. You talk to them and ask them to explain what happened and it's like, "uh... I don't remember, but here I am! Let's go save (expansion X)!"

A truly disappointing way to cheapen the immersion.

heaven13

peacenote wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Lauranae wrote: »

Katheriah wrote: »

Lauranae wrote: »

What i know, is that the staff working for us, do it. With the tools and the rights or permissions they l
Personally, i would rather thanks the team for sticking with us, as we are starting to be a quite a negative crowd.
I would not feel motivated to do my job under such pressure.

That's some really nice sentiment and all, but as you said it... It's a job. If you look at the last patch you saw some bugs that should not have gone live. Like sieges that would never go away. It's gamebreaking in PvP and nobody even noticed it. Makes you wonder if they really care. What do their QA testers do all day?!

ESO is a product and not a cheap one. I have been supporting the game with ESO+ and buying all chapters on release. What I'm trying to say is most negative people don't hate the game, we love what the game can and should be.

If you're selling a product, people expect it to work. You can have a bad launch. A chain of bad launches with issues that take a month or longer to fix is getting less acceptable. Add the horrible communication from ZOS and you can expect torches and pitchforks.

I am not saying nothing bad happened and they did nothing all great.

I say that negativity accumulated is enough. You can complain, and explain and even yell and express your anger BUT at the end when there is only that, and the forum is becoming only that, i say its too much.

At some point, if ESO gives you so much anger, you know what to do. I did it on other games. (I dont point YOU sorry if my sentence is not well made - i speak in general)

And baring people to say that they had no problems because you had, is part of the problem. You want to voice your argument but you dont let those who do not have issues express themselves.

So at this point, this is again a unique voice, the negative one, that want to be heard and to silence the others.

---
When ESO had those huge issues with bank and items vanishing at launch, i left the game as i was mad. Shortly but i did it

It's a long-standing trend that ZOS tends to drag their feet on issues unless there is a large community outcry. Without continued pressure issues linger far longer than they should have any right, and if people just stop talking about the issues and either suffer through it or leave those issues won't be fixed and will only be made worse with additional problems added on down the road. Out of a love for the game and a desire to see it succeed, people rightfully speak up about the issues they have in hopes that the problems they have will get addressed. Being silent doesn't work, and even if those who are making noise now do leave, the continued problems will only cause others to keep the discussions going until something changes, either with the issues being fixed or, not.

Agree with this post and the OP's post.

Those of us still trying to be heard are trying because we love ESO. Over and over again, this year in particular changes were released to solve a described problem which wreaked havoc with other playstyles, when a more inclusive implementation fixing the problems but respecting and preserving more playstyles could have been done. Trade-offs were made that don't resonate and it's even worse when we are told "well, it's what you asked for." Silence on ZOS's part caused the community to tear each other apart, naming and blaming "casuals" "end game raiders" "role players" "pvp-ers" and more, when in reality most of us were negatively impacted. Not ALL... apparently some folks are perfectly happy with this year and that's great for you... but there's no reason that audience couldn't be bigger. All it would have taken is a little more engagement.

Yes, every year some content is released that some people aren't happy with. That's way different than what happened this year, where new content had to be held up against the much bigger yardstick of "is it worth what we lost?" And even this has happened before (bosmer passive change springs to mind) but not SO MUCH in one year.

This year I lost all my alt historical meaningful dates, like when they hit level 50. I lost accurate map tracking. I lost the ability to try a new role and know if I pass speed mode, hard mode, etc. in dungeon and trial content. I lost my "to-do" list for my characters. I lost the classic feel of my templars, and boy did I love my templars. I lost tons of friends who left the game, and progress in my raiding team (it has now disbanded). I lost the ability to block consistently. I lost the unique feel of my mag and stam toons.

That's... a lot of loss. To not be logging in every day feeling "oh this used to be more fun," replacement content needs to make up for all that. It needs to be more engaging than the stuff I miss. Do I care if a card game is added to ESO even if I don't want to play it? Well, no... but it's a pain point if a lot of what I used to do is gone from the game and that's all I get in return!

I'm totally loving the new dungeon and trial content and for now that's what primarily keeps me here, but it's not going to be enough if a way to re-pursue the challenging achievements in that group content isn't restored. I don't give two figs if it is an "achievement" or not but my desire to replay isn't there if I can't track my progress somewhere. I should not have to start a stopwatch and then track in a separate spreadsheet to see if I can finish a speed mode as a tank instead of a healer. Or make a new account. Both are ridiculous solutions to something I could easily do in game from 2014 - 2021!

Anyway I think that's why this year feels different/worse to some. A lot of changes were trade-offs or take- your-medicine "we promise it's good for you" and rolled out despite vocal outcry not just from the usual naysayers but people who normally say "guys, it's fine." But to see that you have to be looking at the posters and their post history.

I do still love this game. But there are a lot of things that I truly miss that I took for granted in 2021. 😢

Sometimes I feel like we’re the same person. What you say really resonates with the way I feel about the game, though it seems I’ve taken a further step back (haven’t done true group content in almost a year and haven’t even looked to see how I need to adjust my builds to get back to that point because I know it’ll change again probably soon). I really miss what this game used to be, in so many different areas, and that just makes me sad.

Pixiepumpkin

It seems like most of the older players have left, and the focus is towards new players. I am guessing its easier to get new players to spend money in the crown store.

SilverBride

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

It seems like most of the older players have left, and the focus is towards new players. I am guessing its easier to get new players to spend money in the crown store.

Most of the older players have not left. I played since beta, stopped after Craglorn was introduced and came back after One Tamriel and have no plans on leaving. A lot of long time players are still active.

Pixiepumpkin

SilverBride wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

It seems like most of the older players have left, and the focus is towards new players. I am guessing its easier to get new players to spend money in the crown store.

Most of the older players have not left. I played since beta, stopped after Craglorn was introduced and came back after One Tamriel and have no plans on leaving. A lot of long time players are still active.

i have played since beta, have the monkey. There is not a single person left on my friends list from those days, not one.

tohopka_eso

SilverBride wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

It seems like most of the older players have left, and the focus is towards new players. I am guessing its easier to get new players to spend money in the crown store.

Most of the older players have not left. I played since beta, stopped after Craglorn was introduced and came back after One Tamriel and have no plans on leaving. A lot of long time players are still active.

Same for me @SilverBride , came back after One tamriel, still here

SilverBride

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

It seems like most of the older players have left, and the focus is towards new players. I am guessing its easier to get new players to spend money in the crown store.

Most of the older players have not left. I played since beta, stopped after Craglorn was introduced and came back after One Tamriel and have no plans on leaving. A lot of long time players are still active.

i have played since beta, have the monkey. There is not a single person left on my friends list from those days, not one.

Players come and go, both long time players and newer ones. Just because some players from launch are no longer playing doesn't mean that most older players have left. There are still plenty of us around.

Ghaleb

I always find it funny when the crowd, faced with decent amount of data points providing a trend, then go about and ignore it. Even more, coining it as anecdotal and waiting for official numbers (which basically aims at killing the discussion as we will never receive official numbers).

And then the same crowd turns around and uses their anecdotal "evidence" as proof, that the game is fine.

I do like the irony.

Kingsindarkness

tmbrinks wrote: »

Kingsindarkness wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Kingsindarkness wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Things changing in a way that some players don't like doesn't mean that the game is bad or is getting worse.

Over 7000 players leaving is bad

Is there really concrete indisputable evidence for that though?

Even so, only 7k?

Really?

I just don't see getting worked up over that.

If the 7k is ONLY players who play ESO on steam on PC... you have to multiply by at least 2 or 3 to account for the PC players that don't use steam (2 if it's a 50/50 split, 3 if it's a 33/67 split, etc... ) and based on past polls on the forums of PC players... it's probably closer to a 25/75% split... so maybe even 4. (But I'll choose the middle, 3x)

Then multiply by 3 to account for the players on XBox and PS servers (as they don't have a steam option), and ZoS has stated the population is mostly evenly split between the 3 megaservers.

Suddenly your 7k is closer to 63k players lost.... and that is a sizable number.

Other option is to look at percentage change, 25% of players, stopped playing.

Most business would go under if 25% of their workforce quit. The same logic holds here.

No matter how you look at it... ESO is bleeding players.

While I haven't quit... my playtime is significantly lessened, and ESO is no longer my "Main Game"... it's at least sharing that title with another at this time.

But all of that is just conjecture to fit a narrative.

I'll wait for actual numbers before I get worried.

You won't get actual numbers. ZoS will never release them. They'll only tell you "total accounts", a number that can only increase.

Unfortunately, that "narrative" is consistent across multiple metrics (albeit all anecdotal).

Steam numbers (the only concrete player count we have) - down.
Threads about players unhappy with the game - up.
Numbers of players in my guilds and friends lists playing - down.

They all point to the same conclusion.

But, if there's one thing I've learned over the past 4 years... is that even with all the signs pointing towards one conclusion, some will still argue the opposite, and usually very loudly. And nothing said will change their opinion.

What conclusion?

Because others on this thread are telling me that no one is staying the game is bleeding subs or dying, yet dissertation after dissertation is being written in this thread...but no one is trying to convince us of anything..

As I said it's silly...

Look...ESO is really doing about the same as any MMO these days, and like most MMO's the forums are a dumpster-fire with different camps all shouting different narratives.

I just don't think that this venting is going to convince anyone of anything other than preaching to the choir type stuff..

YandereGirlfriend

I am genuinely curious how the "everything is fine" contingent explains the divergent fortunes experienced by ESO and Final Fantasy 14 coming out of the pandemic. Nobody, at of yet, has ventured to answer this question.

Like what, in your estimation, has caused Final Fantasy 14 to double its player base from 2020 to the present while ESO regresses back to more or less what it had before? One of the games managed to retain a massive share of their pandemic influx players and the other did not. It's fairly cut-and-dry.

And even if one believes that "everything is fine" with ESO, does the trajectory of Final Fantasy 14 not prove that ESO can (and probably should...) be doing some important things better?

Losing nearly all of those pandemic era players was NOT a foregone conclusion, nor was it destiny. It was the result of choices made about the direction of the game and how that direction has impacted both new and old players alike.

Ghaleb

You’re right @Kingsindarkness. No exchange here will yield a change of opinion. Nor will it yield any response of value from ZOS, except intensive moderation.

Best example is the U35 Q&A thread. 17-18 pages long around the same question and no reply from ZOS deserving to be called a reply.

So, yeah. You say the game is great and best in class. Others, me including, really enjoy(ed) the game but state the glaring (in our views, mind you) flaws and the negative trend that entails.

But ESO will not die today or tomorrow. Which trajectory it will take will become more clear. And when ZOS comes around and nerfs the area of the game you enjoy, we’ll meet on the forums.

Or not. As those now complaining move to other games at one point in time as being resentful towards a game is not healthy and changing that only works with moving on in the end. Mich to the detriment of ESO, as with fewer communities, the game bleeds diversity.

Oakenaxe

It seems that 2022 is acknowledged as the worst year for endgame players. Most people I see saying they felt not much difference are usually those more focused on overland and questing/exploring. I think the game should be attractive to both type of players, but it is clearly letting one side down. I am one of those that play through Steam and has stopped recently, after disappointments with U35, U36 and the lack of communication. Cyrodiil was the thing that kept me playing for a while even with all the issues, but things have gotten to a point I just can't stand any longer. I'm glad that some people's playstyle are not deeply affected with all the changes, but since I started playing (2017, I think) I have never seen so many people unhappy. Most endgame players like me.

Kingsindarkness

Ghaleb wrote: »

You’re right @Kingsindarkness. No exchange here will yield a change of opinion. Nor will it yield any response of value from ZOS, except intensive moderation.

Best example is the U35 Q&A thread. 17-18 pages long around the same question and no reply from ZOS deserving to be called a reply.

So, yeah. You say the game is great and best in class. Others, me including, really enjoy(ed) the game but state the glaring (in our views, mind you) flaws and the negative trend that entails.

But ESO will not die today or tomorrow. Which trajectory it will take will become more clear. And when ZOS comes around and nerfs the area of the game you enjoy, we’ll meet on the forums.

Or not. As those now complaining move to other games at one point in time as being resentful towards a game is not healthy and changing that only works with moving on in the end. Mich to the detriment of ESO, as with fewer communities, the game bleeds diversity.

I can promise you this...

in five years the exact same people who see nothing but problems will still be posting here as will the people who think the game is great.

it's the nature of the hobby...I still play DAOC and there are people on those forums that are still upset over Trails of Atlantis and are posting the exact same things as they did back in 2003...

ESO is going to continue as long as ZoS makes money off of it and so far it has made more money than all of the TES and Fallout games together and there really is no sign of that (no matter how many folks are playing) slowing down.

Pepegrillos

Ghaleb wrote: »

But ESO will not die today or tomorrow. Which trajectory it will take will become more clear. And when ZOS comes around and nerfs the area of the game you enjoy, we’ll meet on the forums.

There are worse deaths than death. There are SWTOR's kinds of deaths, an everlasting, heavily monetized, maintenance mode limbo.

baltic1284

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

It seems like most of the older players have left, and the focus is towards new players. I am guessing its easier to get new players to spend money in the crown store.

Yeah, I been around since Beta test from early beta there still old-time gamers still around we are not as active on the forums I think not 100 percent sure on that but there is still plenty of old-time gamers in the game from Beta test and such.

Kingsindarkness

Pepegrillos wrote: »

Ghaleb wrote: »

But ESO will not die today or tomorrow. Which trajectory it will take will become more clear. And when ZOS comes around and nerfs the area of the game you enjoy, we’ll meet on the forums.

There are worse deaths than death. There are SWTOR's kinds of deaths, an everlasting, heavily monetized, maintenance mode limbo.

That game has made over a Billion dollars in it's lifetime and is still earning...a lot of investors pray for that kind of limbo...

This isn't the time or place, but I can regale you with what happened when Bioware only paid attention to End game raiders because they were copying what Blizzard did.

it didn't end well.

vsrs_au

Ghaleb wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

https://steamcharts.com/app/306130#All
October 2018 18,229 players
October 2019 21,527 players
October 2020 33,807 players
October 2021 29,949 players
October 2022 22,010 players

Steam players account for about 10% of the player base. 2020/2021 are high for one simple reason. People were at home more.

May I ask for the source you are referencing? This discussion flares up again and again and whenever scrutinized, the person stating that steam players only make 10% of the player base can't quote a source. So seriously interested.

This gives a good source for the 10% estimate, I think:
- total active players: https://mmo-population.com/r/elderscrollsonline
- total active players (Steam): https://steamcharts.com/app/306130

So it's pretty close to 10%.

vsrs_au

Tandor wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Steams not a great indicator of this game as the game was out quite sometime before it ever hit Steam so most vets do not use it. Still; it would be hard for me to say ESO is not on a downturn. I don't have enough copium to believe its doing well.

A lot of Steam purchasers also play through the ZOS launcher. They may well have the game on Steam but they don't feature in the Steam chart numbers.

Why is that? I have the game on Steam, and play via the ZOS launcher, and every time I play, Steam updates my total hours played, so I guess that means I contribute to the Steam charts.

propertyOfUndefined

I love the game. I really do. And coming from a software development background myself, I have great respect for this game's dev team. I don't know about Steam statistics. All I can offer is the POV of somebody who's played the game routinely for several years, then stopped for a few months, only to come back 2 patches later (a week ago) to find the in-game experience feeling stale.

I want to voice my concerns in the hope that something can be done about them. It isn't my intention to defame anybody, or convince people who are happy with the way things are that they're wrong. I imagine it’s the same for a lot of the other players who shared their gripes in this thread. No need to be overly defensive.

heaven13

SilverBride wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Things changing in a way that some players don't like doesn't mean that the game is bad or is getting worse.

If the content you and your friends love was changed so heavily that many of them leave the game, that'd be a change that "some players don't like," would that constitute the game getting worse?

Changes that I do not like don't mean that the game itself got worse. It only means that my impression of the game got worse.

Alright, then if we made every single overland mob into a dragon, and made every quest boss a 1v1 fight against Dagon himself you wouldn't like it, but it wouldn't make the game any worse. Gotcha. /s

A game isn't 'good' or 'bad,' and I've played plenty of games with many valid negative reviews and still enjoyed them, but the state of a game is defined by those who engage with it, and turning a blind eye to issues others have doesn't get rid of those issues. ESO gives off an increasingly negative impression to people outside the game as more and more content creators leave or make videos outlining issues they have, and word of mouth from people leaving undermines people's confidence in the game and its developer. Do you know how games die? How long term issues hemorrhaging players and trust ends them? Will that matter to you now, or only when it is your turn to be at the mercy of ZOS's slow and callous response, when all those who tried to speak up before have left?

There is no way they would do something so drastic.

They never would have done accountwide achievements and gotten rid of character progression either, per the devs themselves for many, many years.

Or given us alliance change.

Until they did.

SilverBride

heaven13 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

There is no way they would do something so drastic.

They never would have done accountwide achievements and gotten rid of character progression either, per the devs themselves for many, many years.

Or given us alliance change.

Until they did.

To put my post back into context, "if we made every single overland mob into a dragon, and made every quest boss a 1v1 fight against Dagon himself" is what I was replying to.

heaven13

SilverBride wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

There is no way they would do something so drastic.

They never would have done accountwide achievements and gotten rid of character progression either, per the devs themselves for many, many years.

Or given us alliance change.

Until they did.

To put my post back into context, "if we made every single overland mob into a dragon, and made every quest boss a 1v1 fight against Dagon himself" is what I was replying to.

I’m well aware of the context. There are plenty of things we longtime players found absolutely outrageous to even consider that did end up happening, including things the devs themselves promised wouldn’t happen. Never say never, after all.

ATomiX69

The worst year (so far) stay tuned for more