2022: ESO's Worst Year, A Retrospective

Parasaurolophus

Once they start getting more involved with the game they soon realize many things, there is no guide to do quests in order and they have to look online, their inventory is getting full very quickly and they have to PAY for eso plus if they want to keep their materials at all, they see nice looking mounts and collectibles but the only way to get them is to PAY in the crown store.

There are enough things in the game that you can get. Yes, not many things will get for completing quests, but this is only because the quests in the game are too easy. Many of the lucky ones are also hidden behind the achievements. Well, we have, of course, the endavriors system.

LesserCircle

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Once they start getting more involved with the game they soon realize many things, there is no guide to do quests in order and they have to look online, their inventory is getting full very quickly and they have to PAY for eso plus if they want to keep their materials at all, they see nice looking mounts and collectibles but the only way to get them is to PAY in the crown store.

There are enough things in the game that you can get. Yes, not many things will get for completing quests, but this is only because the quests in the game are too easy. Many of the lucky ones are also hidden behind the achievements. Well, we have, of course, the endavriors system.

Like what? The ugly skins or the useless mementos? And if you are talking about the godslayer and planesbreaker mounts, they are so hard to get that you might just give up on them, specially as a new player POV. The endeavors system is only there so no one complains about crown crates, you need a full year to get a radiant apex and it won't be there anymore once you have enough endeavors. Plus it doesn't feel as rewarding as a quest made for a reward, it still has that feeling of just buying it in the store.

FeedbackOnly

Lumsdenml wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I am genuinely curious how the "everything is fine" contingent explains the divergent fortunes experienced by ESO and Final Fantasy 14 coming out of the pandemic. Nobody, at of yet, has ventured to answer this question.

Here are their respective Steam charts. Feel free to analyse the divergent fortunes experienced by the two games:

FFIV: https://steamcharts.com/app/39210

ESO: https://steamcharts.com/app/306130

Looks like FF has lost more players in the past few months than eso. Also, take a look at eso summer/ fall of 2019. Lost about 45% of players and yet it's still here. This game is cyclical, as is any game around for this long. Players will come back, at least until TES6 rolls out, and that is at least 8 years away....

45% is the big number.,.. I don't think it's wrong to say should try to do better next year

FeedbackOnly

me_ming wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

The development of next year's chapter is likely already done so I guess you probably need to aim for 2024. And I'm sorry to be the lone voice here, but I had no bugs at all this year. I know that pvp and endgame players did, but I haven't any interest in those modes - so it's not something I'm going to get my knickers in a twist over, since there's already plenty of that going on around here.

I hope you all find what you're looking for in this game, but if you're expecting major changes next year you may be whistling in the wind.

I'm just curious, [snip] what if the chapter next year added more content for PvP or if they made it that you can't solo kill a single overland monster? what if they made it that you NEED to group to actually accomplish anything in the next patch or chapter? [snip]

Development of next year's chapter isn't done. There's a lot of facts to prove that January is a big starting point. It's in production yes but things can change

[edited to remove quote]

Snamyap

I see a number of people react in a "it's not a problem if it doesn't affect me" manner. You may want to keep in mind that people that play content you're not interested in still pay for the content that you are interested in. This us vs them mentality benefits nobody.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

I actually liked this year really much
Overworld questing was one of the best we ever had in my opinion

Account wide acheivement are what i wanted from it, acheivement actually being account wide.

The card game is fun, better than companion and antiquity in my opinion

Auldwulfe

LesserCircle wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Once they start getting more involved with the game they soon realize many things, there is no guide to do quests in order and they have to look online, their inventory is getting full very quickly and they have to PAY for eso plus if they want to keep their materials at all, they see nice looking mounts and collectibles but the only way to get them is to PAY in the crown store.

There are enough things in the game that you can get. Yes, not many things will get for completing quests, but this is only because the quests in the game are too easy. Many of the lucky ones are also hidden behind the achievements. Well, we have, of course, the endavriors system.

Like what? The ugly skins or the useless mementos? And if you are talking about the godslayer and planesbreaker mounts, they are so hard to get that you might just give up on them, specially as a new player POV. The endeavors system is only there so no one complains about crown crates, you need a full year to get a radiant apex and it won't be there anymore once you have enough endeavors. Plus it doesn't feel as rewarding as a quest made for a reward, it still has that feeling of just buying it in the store.

I agree on Endeavors --- they are there solely to get around an anti-gambling law, and are being abused in an unethical way.
Seriously, they are more of an ad trying to convince you to gamble, than they are a means to get anything.

They are there to trigger FOMO (Fear of Missing Out).....
"See, you could be gambling to get this...." and if you don't gamble, you won't get it... as you will never earn endeavors fast enough to actually get the items, unless you are psychic enough to know what is coming over the next year.

Auldwulfe

AzuraFan

LesserCircle wrote: »

On the other side we have ESO, where new players ...
Once they start getting more involved with the game they soon realize many things, there is no guide to do quests in order and they have to look online, their inventory is getting full very quickly and they have to PAY for eso plus if they want to keep their materials at all, they see nice looking mounts and collectibles but the only way to get them is to PAY in the crown store.

ESO isn't friendly to new players, or even players who have been around for a while and don't realize they're missing out on things they should know. I didn't know about light attack weaving for the longest time because I didn't belong to a guild and wasn't reading the forums, so how was I supposed to know about it? There have been other things I discovered after playing the game for more than a year, either by accident, or because I stumbled across them, or I saw mention of it on the forums or in guild or zone chat.

I know I'm not alone in this because occasionally a guildie will exclaim about something they just discovered, even though they've been around for a while.

This game is really bad for in-game help, guidance, and tutorials. And then there's the ton of quest markers new players experience as soon as they reach their main alliance hub, with no guidance as to how to best proceed through the content to experience the story.

TaSheen

me_ming wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

The development of next year's chapter is likely already done so I guess you probably need to aim for 2024. And I'm sorry to be the lone voice here, but I had no bugs at all this year. I know that pvp and endgame players did, but I haven't any interest in those modes - so it's not something I'm going to get my knickers in a twist over, since there's already plenty of that going on around here.

I hope you all find what you're looking for in this game, but if you're expecting major changes next year you may be whistling in the wind.

I'm just curious, [snip] what if the chapter next year added more content for PvP or if they made it that you can't solo kill a single overland monster? what if they made it that you NEED to group to actually accomplish anything in the next patch or chapter? [snip]

I've been one who's said various times that they need to give something for those who pvp. I've also said that an option for vet overland is fine with me. And I've never said anyone should shut up and stop complaining. However, since I don't have the issues others do, I think it's perfectly fair that I get to say so.

But yes, if they did things to make the game so I found it too hard to solo any more, and forced grouping (I don't do group content for a variety of reasons) I would quit the game, and no, I would not be here whining about it, just as I quit WoW and RIFT years back now (a decade ago for WoW) and have never been back to their forums.

When the developers of a game take that game in a direction I don't find fun, I leave and don't go back.

[edited to remove quote]

ectoplasmicninja

Even from my perspective as a quester, this year was meh.

High Isle and Galen look and feel extremely similar, which while geographically understandable felt a bit disappointing to actually engage with. Unless I missed something, there was also a total lack of any emphasis on the Direnni ancestry of the Bretons. People did mention that they were half elf here and there, but it was all druids and no real exploration of anything more esoteric. I was hoping for some cool Breton lore expansion but I felt underwhelmed as it was just a bit like Bangkorai with the Wyrd.

Totally a personal opinion but I love the weirder parts of the Elder Scrolls (Dunmer insect architecture! Khajiit messing around with the moons! Argonians changing sex!) and the Bretons came out of this year still feeling extremely vanilla. Plus we were told the stakes would be smaller and involve more political intrigue and that's not what was delivered IMO.

Lord Bacaro being the last living descendant of Druid-King Kasorayn and wanting to rule from that perspective was neat and unexpected (perhaps too unexpected, because unless I missed something there were no breadcrumbs to that effect at all) but I was secretly hoping that we'd find out that he had been LARPing as the Ascendant Lord in order to provide a threat that would unite the Alliances and end the Three Banners War and things had gotten wildly out of hand. Alas.

I didn't like the damage nerfs but once they reverted the craziest of the changes I figured I could live with what remained. The animation change to templar change is utterly beyond the pale though.

VampiricByNature

I just want to say, I was hoping the card game would be more of a party game like Uno or something. All of our pvp is 3way so I was confused why the card game was 2 player.
While the game itself had issues this year, I found a good group to play with and probably logged more hours this year than any. I enjoy the game and I think everyone with complains also does. No one fights for something they don't love.

Companions and the card game didn't bring me much joy but I know people out there like that sort of thing. The new trial have been challenging and that's mostly what I focus on doing.

UnabashedlyHonest

CP5 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Katheriah wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

It seems like most of the older players have left, and the focus is towards new players. I am guessing its easier to get new players to spend money in the crown store.

Most of the older players have not left. I played since beta, stopped after Craglorn was introduced and came back after One Tamriel and have no plans on leaving. A lot of long time players are still active.

N=1.

I have seen multiple friends leave the game, including loyal, longtime players. One of them owns a guildhouse with all sets in the game and mundus stones, someone that cared about the game and invested both time and money.

I trust statistics over personal stories.

Your story of friends leaving the game is your experience, but it is not statistical proof that most older players have left or why.

Players come and go for various reasons. They get burned out and need a break, they get busy in real life and don't have time, they want to try a new game, or maybe this game just isn't what they are personally looking for any more. Not every player who leaves has done so because the game is "bad".

As is yours. Your claims that 'there are plenty of us left and everything is fine' is just as subjective, but when people, like Auldwulfe just did, come here and explain how thriving communities have withered and died over the past year due to many of the decisions and fallout from ZOS's actions, that shouldn't be ignored. If we just ignore the underlining issues causing this, then what will be your response when the wheel turns to you and your own friend group feels the strain of ZOS's negligence?

I never claimed otherwise. My experience is that ESO was just fine in 2022 for me and a lot of my friends. The changes that were made didn't change my gameplay at all, and that is just a fact. That doesn't mean I don't think any others were affected by it in a negative way, but a lot of players weren't, and ESO is far from dying because of it.

They didn't impact you at all and that's good, but when people come here talking about how massive guilds suddenly go dark that doesn't come off as hundreds of people coming together as 'burnt out' at the same time, or have real life things all happening at once. Discrediting others by asserting that those outside your friend's group as just being burnt out or that eso just isn't the game for them is an effort to make sure things don't change. I mentioned before that if there isn't pushback against ZOS's current behavior, it will continue, so do you feel the current direction ZOS is bringing the game is good for its long term health?

I think the take home message we're getting is "Take it or leave it".

Tandor

me_ming wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

The development of next year's chapter is likely already done so I guess you probably need to aim for 2024. And I'm sorry to be the lone voice here, but I had no bugs at all this year. I know that pvp and endgame players did, but I haven't any interest in those modes - so it's not something I'm going to get my knickers in a twist over, since there's already plenty of that going on around here.

I hope you all find what you're looking for in this game, but if you're expecting major changes next year you may be whistling in the wind.

I'm just curious, [snip] [/b]what if the chapter next year added more content for PvP or if they made it that you can't solo kill a single overland monster? what if they made it that you NEED to group to actually accomplish anything in the next patch or chapter? [snip]

[edited for baiting]

That's very unfair. What @TaSheen actually said was that she didn't have any problems and wouldn't dwell on other people's problems because they were doing so already - that's totally different to saying they shouldn't complain either.

Like her, I haven't suffered from any bugs this year and I've also adapted to any changes that affected me which was primarily the change to AwA to which I was very opposed. However, I adapted the way I play the game with a resulting loss of revenue to ZOS and that's that.

[edited to remove quote]

SilverBride

Snamyap wrote: »

I see a number of people react in a "it's not a problem if it doesn't affect me" manner. You may want to keep in mind that people that play content you're not interested in still pay for the content that you are interested in. This us vs them mentality benefits nobody.

No one has said it's not a problem if it doesn't affect them. But the truth is that 2022 was not a bad year for everyone. Those who enjoyed it should be able to give their feedback as well. It doesn't mean they don't empathize but they should not be expected to downplay their own positive experience.

Lumsdenml

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Lumsdenml wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I am genuinely curious how the "everything is fine" contingent explains the divergent fortunes experienced by ESO and Final Fantasy 14 coming out of the pandemic. Nobody, at of yet, has ventured to answer this question.

Here are their respective Steam charts. Feel free to analyse the divergent fortunes experienced by the two games:

FFIV: https://steamcharts.com/app/39210

ESO: https://steamcharts.com/app/306130

Looks like FF has lost more players in the past few months than eso. Also, take a look at eso summer/ fall of 2019. Lost about 45% of players and yet it's still here. This game is cyclical, as is any game around for this long. Players will come back, at least until TES6 rolls out, and that is at least 8 years away....

45% is the big number.,.. I don't think it's wrong to say should try to do better next year

True, but I'd say they did since that was 3 years ago and we haven't seen a drop that big since... even in 2022.

Elsonso

Lumsdenml wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Lumsdenml wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I am genuinely curious how the "everything is fine" contingent explains the divergent fortunes experienced by ESO and Final Fantasy 14 coming out of the pandemic. Nobody, at of yet, has ventured to answer this question.

Here are their respective Steam charts. Feel free to analyse the divergent fortunes experienced by the two games:

FFIV: https://steamcharts.com/app/39210

ESO: https://steamcharts.com/app/306130

Looks like FF has lost more players in the past few months than eso. Also, take a look at eso summer/ fall of 2019. Lost about 45% of players and yet it's still here. This game is cyclical, as is any game around for this long. Players will come back, at least until TES6 rolls out, and that is at least 8 years away....

45% is the big number.,.. I don't think it's wrong to say should try to do better next year

True, but I'd say they did since that was 3 years ago and we haven't seen a drop that big since... even in 2022.

3 years ago? On Steam, ESO dropped from a pandemic driven ~40k in April 2020 to a post pandemic ~20k going into November this year. If you look at the graph, there is a definite negative slope covering that entire range. There are small bumps at release dates, but nothing nearly as dramatic as that initial pandemic bump. Clearly, ZOS was a beneficiary, not an instigator, of their pandemic-driven popularity.

My take away on all of this is that ZOS just happened to be in the right place at the start of the pandemic. They had a live game that people could play. A port in the storm. Since then, ZOS has not been able to cement their gains, and the numbers drop. At least, on Steam Charts. I presume these numbers will continue to drop until they reach a soft base level. After that, things will level off and return to the normal fluctuations caused by new content and players leaving to do other things.

Destai

xgoku1 wrote: »

I'm looking forward to ZOS' 2023 plans. Whether I buy the Chapter and DLC really depends on their gimmick for the year.

2022 was a really easy skip for me, because a card game isn't worth the asking price. Even if it was 75% off, I would still have a good old think.

It wasn't like that for prior Chapters, I would miss out on something tangible and substantial by not having access. It was a sensible purchase.

The card game really should've been a side feature. I've warmed up to it, but I don't ever see that becoming something that'll take the place of exploration or dungeons for me. I play the game for the combat and the world, so it was odd to see this as the selling point of a whole chapter.

At least for me, ESO isn't the only game that I care about. I personally can't play more than one game at a time due to time constraints. And besides, I think ""MMO loyalty" is a silly concept, I would rather spend on something I'd enjoy rather than buy yet another by-the-numbers ESO chapter out of an imagined obligation.

I personally don't agree with the direction ZOS is taking with new Chapters since 2020. They are adding systems each year that they have to support ad infinitum into the future.


2020 saw Antiquities and Mythics added, which they have to add to every new Chapter going forward. 2021 saw Companions, two each will also have to be added every Chapter into the future. 2022 saw Tales of Tribute, presumably more Patron Decks will be added going forward.

Compare this to the closed-loop systems added in 2017 (Battlegrounds) 2018 (Psijic skills and Jewelry crafting) 2019 (Necromancer class) which don't need further resource investment.

I honestly think their resources are being spread thin because they have to support systems added since 2020, rather than work on a single, blockbuster feature for the next year. You gotta come up with new Mythics, make sure they are kinda OP but not break the game, nerf older Mythics so that FOMO works. You gotta add unique companions with their own quest lines, interactivity to the game world, and extensive work from voice actors.

I think there's value in having persistent systems that mature with each expansion. At least in principle. One of the things I never liked about WoW was how features were locked into that expansion - like Strongholds if you're familiar. You get the selling point, you work on it, and then the next expansion comes out and completely wipes out the value of that thing you worked on. I've enjoyed most of the systems they've added because I know they're going to mature with each subsequent release. But, I do agree with you, that it feels like they're stretched thin trying to support these.

The whole year-long story season thing was never that great to begin with IMO. Somehow they still insist on sticking to this awkward story-telling mode of packaging story content in 4-man dungeons, 12-man trials, hamfisting all the lore into the Q4 DLC, and constant story recaps through dialogue like the Vestige has Alzheimer's.

The lore, while mostly good IMO, does feel shoehorned into the release format. I was thinking about how all the smaller zones have REALLY strong stories, arguably stronger than most of the chapter zones. It's odd to me because the chapter zones should leave ample room for some extensive stories and they just leave it hanging. Comparing to a show, it feels like they stop the episode the at a commercial. It's fine if they want to stretch a story across releases, like they did with Morrowind/SS/CWC, but I don't think it's being done as concise as it could be. It's not to say the stories are bad or anything, I still enjoy most of them, but they do feel rushed at times.

And yeah, the recaps are a bit tiring. I get it, they're there to help people remember things if they take a break, but it comes at the cost of the narrative and the PC's character development.

I've been playing since 2019 and I don't think I've seen a single significant update that didn't have some serious bugs on launch. The game will be literally broken for two weeks after every new update drops. It seems bizarre how the community is really complacent about this happening every single time. People get really weirdly aggressive saying some version of "bugs are inevitable", which, okay, but we don't need to normalize that. There are products/games that are released without major, gamebreaking bugs too. At what point do we say this company is incompetent with a consistent record of failure?

Bugs are inevitable, that's just the reality of software, but it's how they handle them that bugs me the most. I'd be significantly less mad about bugs were there better communication and some evidence of lessons learned. Two examples that come to mind - annoying NPCs and Zone Completion. For the former, they eventually moved a few NPCs and then proceed to launch High Isle with that annoying announcement NPC for the card game. And she's plopped into every zone. For the latter, with High Isle, I reported a bug where the skyshard hints show completed on toons that haven't done them yet. First off, they said it'd be fixed in U36 - it wasn't - and then it happened again in Firesong. Seems like there's change management problems with these guys.

Great post btw, enjoyed reading it.

Cazador

Can't help but disagree with this year being the worst year, at least not for me. I found basically all content to be much more interesting than last year and I simply just adapted to the changes that were made.

One thing that needs said however from reading through this thread is that no matter your perspective on this year, nobody is wrong feeling how they do. If somebody is like me and enjoyed what we got our experience isn't less valuable than somebody who didn't and vice versa.

Destai

Cazador wrote: »

Can't help but disagree with this year being the worst year, at least not for me. I found basically all content to be much more interesting than last year and I simply just adapted to the changes that were made.

One thing that needs said however from reading through this thread is that no matter your perspective on this year, nobody is wrong feeling how they do. If somebody is like me and enjoyed what we got our experience isn't less valuable than somebody who didn't and vice versa.

Really valid point. It’s definitely not the worst year for me either, that was honestly Greymoor. That was mostly because of how rocky that launch was. I enjoyed most of this year’s content aside from a few minor gripes.

Parasaurolophus

LesserCircle wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Once they start getting more involved with the game they soon realize many things, there is no guide to do quests in order and they have to look online, their inventory is getting full very quickly and they have to PAY for eso plus if they want to keep their materials at all, they see nice looking mounts and collectibles but the only way to get them is to PAY in the crown store.

There are enough things in the game that you can get. Yes, not many things will get for completing quests, but this is only because the quests in the game are too easy. Many of the lucky ones are also hidden behind the achievements. Well, we have, of course, the endavriors system.

Like what? The ugly skins or the useless mementos? And if you are talking about the godslayer and planesbreaker mounts, they are so hard to get that you might just give up on them, specially as a new player POV. The endeavors system is only there so no one complains about crown crates, you need a full year to get a radiant apex and it won't be there anymore once you have enough endeavors. Plus it doesn't feel as rewarding as a quest made for a reward, it still has that feeling of just buying it in the store.

I'm ready to argue with you. Because things that "everyone" can get are greatly depreciated, because they are simply available to everyone. This clearly does not play into the personality of your character. In the end, awards should be given for some kind of achievement. And the quests in eso are too easy to appreciate.

LesserCircle

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

LesserCircle wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Once they start getting more involved with the game they soon realize many things, there is no guide to do quests in order and they have to look online, their inventory is getting full very quickly and they have to PAY for eso plus if they want to keep their materials at all, they see nice looking mounts and collectibles but the only way to get them is to PAY in the crown store.

There are enough things in the game that you can get. Yes, not many things will get for completing quests, but this is only because the quests in the game are too easy. Many of the lucky ones are also hidden behind the achievements. Well, we have, of course, the endavriors system.

Like what? The ugly skins or the useless mementos? And if you are talking about the godslayer and planesbreaker mounts, they are so hard to get that you might just give up on them, specially as a new player POV. The endeavors system is only there so no one complains about crown crates, you need a full year to get a radiant apex and it won't be there anymore once you have enough endeavors. Plus it doesn't feel as rewarding as a quest made for a reward, it still has that feeling of just buying it in the store.

I'm ready to argue with you. Because things that "everyone" can get are greatly depreciated, because they are simply available to everyone. This clearly does not play into the personality of your character. In the end, awards should be given for some kind of achievement. And the quests in eso are too easy to appreciate.

You don't have to argue with me because I agree, but there are only 2 mounts, while players should do some kind of achievement, it shouldn't be only 2 and the hardest ones that exist at that. I'm a decent player, I have some DLC trial HMs, dungeon DLC trifectas, Flawless Conqueror, Spirit slayer... But I'm still not that crazy to try and get Godslayer or Planesbreaker.

Hotdog_23

ESO has took a step back this year for sure. Update 35 was like a ball bat to the knees.

The story is rather bland, or maybe just a disappointment compared to my hopes for what it could have been when first introduced. It is because this year was developed during the change to remote work and the changes COVID has had on business and everyone everywhere? Or maybe ZOS big push into a new game being developed and stealing resources from ESO or at least more talented people behind the scenes? Possibly it is because ZOS has no clear plan or direction for the game beyond change for the sake of change. Maybe I am wrong on all accounts, but how do I know since ZOS does not talk/share with us on anything?

Communication definitely has took a high leap backwards after update 35. Maybe ZOS was surprised by the feedback and the question being asked. Without any real answers or reasons for their actions they just turtled up and shut up.

It feels like they have lost faith in us as players concerning any feedback, so they just stopped listening [snip]. Sure some people were mean [snip] on the forums but rather being thick-skinned and ignore them they deserted us all here on the forums.

Feel like they have a distain for us now. [snip] This is what most people do in real life when you run across negative people, but when you run a business, you can’t shut down like this. A lot of us stopping singing their praise and started questioning them and they took that to heart and left us. Would not be surprised if one day I visit here and I see a banner saying they are closing the forums down for some reason or another.

My hope is that this period of great silence, ZOS has been doing some soul-searching and working/looking on ways to improve and have a goal/direction for ESO they can share with us the community. Sadly, just don’t think this is true.

I am rambling on so stopping typing. Just know I am still here ZOS if you are listening, and I am still in your corner pulling for you, but I have lost so much faith and goodwill in you by your actions that it hurts because I do love ESO.

Stay safe

[edited for bashing]

Cadbury

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Katheriah wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

It seems like most of the older players have left, and the focus is towards new players. I am guessing its easier to get new players to spend money in the crown store.

Most of the older players have not left. I played since beta, stopped after Craglorn was introduced and came back after One Tamriel and have no plans on leaving. A lot of long time players are still active.

N=1.

I have seen multiple friends leave the game, including loyal, longtime players. One of them owns a guildhouse with all sets in the game and mundus stones, someone that cared about the game and invested both time and money.

I trust statistics over personal stories.

Your story of friends leaving the game is your experience, but it is not statistical proof that most older players have left or why.

Players come and go for various reasons. They get burned out and need a break, they get busy in real life and don't have time, they want to try a new game, or maybe this game just isn't what they are personally looking for any more. Not every player who leaves has done so because the game is "bad".

As is yours. Your claims that 'there are plenty of us left and everything is fine' is just as subjective, but when people, like Auldwulfe just did, come here and explain how thriving communities have withered and died over the past year due to many of the decisions and fallout from ZOS's actions, that shouldn't be ignored. If we just ignore the underlining issues causing this, then what will be your response when the wheel turns to you and your own friend group feels the strain of ZOS's negligence?

I never claimed otherwise. My experience is that ESO was just fine in 2022 for me and a lot of my friends. The changes that were made didn't change my gameplay at all, and that is just a fact. That doesn't mean I don't think any others were affected by it in a negative way, but a lot of players weren't, and ESO is far from dying because of it.

They didn't impact you at all and that's good, but when people come here talking about how massive guilds suddenly go dark that doesn't come off as hundreds of people coming together as 'burnt out' at the same time, or have real life things all happening at once. Discrediting others by asserting that those outside your friend's group as just being burnt out or that eso just isn't the game for them is an effort to make sure things don't change. I mentioned before that if there isn't pushback against ZOS's current behavior, it will continue, so do you feel the current direction ZOS is bringing the game is good for its long term health?

I think the take home message we're getting is "Take it or leave it".

Pretty much this.

At the end of the day, some of the people on the "This game is fine" side will continue to view those who take issue with the game (technical or otherwise) with disdain. And some of those on the "This game has issues" side will do the same. Both will view each other in a negative light and will continue to drive a wedge between players. "Us vs them" is a tale as old as time.

It's not too dissimilar from what happens in other communities. There must always be a "side" to choose.

Side note: The AwA change seems to show that the devs are perfectly willing to dynamically change almost every aspect of the game on a moment's notice. Not just endgame or PvP.

Jaraal

Cadbury wrote: »

Side note: The AwA change seems to show that the devs are perfectly willing to dynamically change almost ever aspect of the game on a moment's notice. Not just endgame or PvP.

Agreed. Fundamental things that have been in the game from the beginning, like achievements for alts, Bosmer stealth, 24 person groups, defining templar animations..... gone, in an instant. It gives you the feeling that nothing is sacred, and that anything we take for granted can be revoked without notice or input from the players.

DemonicGoat

Cadbury wrote: »

Side note: The AwA change seems to show that the devs are perfectly willing to dynamically change almost ever aspect of the game on a moment's notice. Not just endgame or PvP.

I think It needs to be said that the "devs" arent always the same people, people leave for better jobs or whatever and someone new is brought in.

Anyone who looked at what ESO was hiring for devs over the past 2 years? By the amount of positions opened alone at one point I had a bad feeling about how things were going to go moving forward,.. We also have to consider Rich took over for Matt in 2019 or so.. when that new IP got underway(matt claims 50 designers,200 devs),.. I dont think its a big stretch of the imagination to guess many capable,veteran devs went to that new project while ESO gets maintained by a new crop of hires or whoever is available.

That would also line up with the quantity of content and quality of updates slipping after Summerset.

Anyhow. Food for thought.

Elsonso

Cadbury wrote: »

Side note: The AwA change seems to show that the devs are perfectly willing to dynamically change almost every aspect of the game on a moment's notice. Not just endgame or PvP.

One of two reasons that I dialed back my playtime here. I no longer trust the studio to create a game that is worth investing time and effort long term. The decision makers feel too disconnected from their game for me to trust that they can build a game that is.

rexagamemnon

Eso isnt dead, ZOS almost could have killed ESO this year with the bad roll out of updates, disregard of community feedback, bugs and technical malfunctions, lack luster new game systems undesired by the community, and horrendous public relations such as the multiple disrespectful tweets from the current creative director for ESO.
1)U35…that has been a complete trainwreck. Creative director and dev at ZOS basically told us to get stuffed. there wasn’t much that was welcome from U35 and they went ahead with it, so no point in the PTS IMO
2) bad PR- we all know rich’s tweets from this year, no apology yet for his “knee-jerk reaction” tweet, and there was his player1 player2 tweet that certianly was in bad taste to say the least. Also not to beat a dead horse but, how about the Q&A ZOS?
3)tales of tribute, the new system implemented was not recieved well. I personally love the game, even though the reward system from it is sub-par IMO. But i acknowledge from the start before i tried it. ESO is a sandbox MMORPG so im down for virtually any new system/activity to be implemented to the game;play how you want and what you want is what i say. BUT ESO COULD HAVE GONE WITH SOMETHING MORE DESIRED AND HIGHER PRIORITY THAN A CARD GAME AT THE MOMENT. I will also point out, the card game was Rich’s idea.
4)U36 launch was the worst launch on a server/technical side in the history of the game. This was supposed to be the least game changing update in a long time because the community’s feedback and backlash regarding U35 and change fatigue. But U36 has had more bugs than any update before it, and U35 had a few bugs and glitches also. U36 had game breaking bugs. People couldnt log into game, cyrodill was broken even more than it already is, and that is saying something considering cyrodill has been busted for a while and we know the issues surrounding Cyrodill and the solutions for it, which are understandable presently.
And this is just off the top of my head at the moment.

BlakMarket

I think this video @Nefas released today - really sums this thread up and the direction of the game. You can clearly see it's a video he did not enjoy making.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Zv5f40sCM0

ProudMary

DemonicGoat wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

Side note: The AwA change seems to show that the devs are perfectly willing to dynamically change almost ever aspect of the game on a moment's notice. Not just endgame or PvP.

I think It needs to be said that the "devs" arent always the same people, people leave for better jobs or whatever and someone new is brought in.

Anyone who looked at what ESO was hiring for devs over the past 2 years? By the amount of positions opened alone at one point I had a bad feeling about how things were going to go moving forward,.. We also have to consider Rich took over for Matt in 2019 or so.. when that new IP got underway(matt claims 50 designers,200 devs),.. I dont think its a big stretch of the imagination to guess many capable,veteran devs went to that new project while ESO gets maintained by a new crop of hires or whoever is available.

That would also line up with the quantity of content and quality of updates slipping after Summerset.

Anyhow. Food for thought.

This would explain a lot if accurate.

Tandor

ProudMary wrote: »

DemonicGoat wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

Side note: The AwA change seems to show that the devs are perfectly willing to dynamically change almost ever aspect of the game on a moment's notice. Not just endgame or PvP.

I think It needs to be said that the "devs" arent always the same people, people leave for better jobs or whatever and someone new is brought in.

Anyone who looked at what ESO was hiring for devs over the past 2 years? By the amount of positions opened alone at one point I had a bad feeling about how things were going to go moving forward,.. We also have to consider Rich took over for Matt in 2019 or so.. when that new IP got underway(matt claims 50 designers,200 devs),.. I dont think its a big stretch of the imagination to guess many capable,veteran devs went to that new project while ESO gets maintained by a new crop of hires or whoever is available.

That would also line up with the quantity of content and quality of updates slipping after Summerset.

Anyhow. Food for thought.

This would explain a lot if accurate.

Bear in mind that they are recruiting for work on a second game.