Your Experience with U35?

madman65

The one problem now is my resources are not lasting as long so I had to go with False gods on my Magicka toons. I haven`t checked out the Stamina toons yet because of the changes in U35 but I fear the same problem.

boi_anachronism_

iaminc wrote: »

Uninstalled, unsubbed a few weeks ago as I knew this was a total ****show and after being back in Eorsea on FF14 I can’t understand why I played this dumpster fire in the first place.

Nefas did a video comparison of eso "tutorial" with ff14's. I was speechless. There is absolutely no excuse for why they can't make a decent one. None. And then their answer is to nerf everything because new players complain about difficulty when the game literally never taught them how to play it. It's embarrassing.

rmajereub17_ESO

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Nefas did a video comparison of eso "tutorial" with ff14's. I was speechless. There is absolutely no excuse for why they can't make a decent one. None. And then their answer is to nerf everything because new players complain about difficulty when the game literally never taught them how to play it. It's embarrassing.

His video trying to raid on U35 was a hard watch, not cool for so many ppl what's happened. The tutorial vid blew my mind though.

Parasaurolophus

Farmed a Behemoth mask recently. All the same, the damage is still the same big.
Completed vIR hard mod. Everything is great. All bosses died in less than one minute, except last of course.
Oh... Listen guys. No, I'm not trolling. Especially since I haven't been to the trials yet. But it looks like the patch hit the weakest non-meta players.

boi_anachronism_

rmajereub17_ESO wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Nefas did a video comparison of eso "tutorial" with ff14's. I was speechless. There is absolutely no excuse for why they can't make a decent one. None. And then their answer is to nerf everything because new players complain about difficulty when the game literally never taught them how to play it. It's embarrassing.

His video trying to raid on U35 was a hard watch, not cool for so many ppl what's happened. The tutorial vid blew my mind though.

I watched it. I was supposed to be starting a prog group on the 1st. I'm not totally sure what to do now. Honestly I don't think people will want to.

boi_anachronism_

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Dawnblade wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Riptide wrote: »

So what exactly is improved in this patch? Which players are better off today than Sunday?

People who do not engage in veteran content but delight in the discomfort of those who do. That is the truth of it.

Thankfully such petty people are very rare. Unfortunately they are very vocal, even eloquent.

A few people are stating that they've found U35's changes to be basically unnoticeable or even a little bit of a buff to some of their characters. How is that taking "delight in the discomfort of those who" "engage in veteran content"?

A few are stating that, but not most.

Also, they most likely play easy content that isn't challenging AND they do not measure their performance in any quantifiable way to give an accurate comparison.

They could also just be trolling and lying.

No. Not simple. All veteran dungeons I've done since the release of U35 have been unchanged. DPS is still as big as before. vHoF HM is the same.

Logs or it didn't happen. Plenty of logs can be seen in real time on streams from high end groups and they don't support that.

VictorDragonslayer

radiostar wrote: »

Most error prone patch for getting kicked (timeouts (not moving around enough?), unknown "errors").

Most error prone patch for getting back into the game (character already logged, unknown "errors").

When in game, most group kicks (unknown reasons, mid fights (moving too fast?), mid quests, talking to npcs/companions, etc).

What the hell was Z smoking on this one??? LMAO

This application starts to fail miserably when load exceeds certain threshold. You can clearly see it in Cyro: more people produce more lags. It's hard to debug such problems on production environment (judging by disclaimer during NA hardware update, ZOS may not even know whether these problems are hardware-induced or software-induced, most likely both), I'm sure that engineers do their best, but business will invest money into performance testing, timely fixes and hardware upgrade only when money loss from downtime exceeds performance testing costs. How much money ZOS lose when you get disconnected from the trial several times in a row? Zero. Of course backend developers try to fix the game, but it takes time, effort and many man-hours.

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

iaminc wrote: »

Uninstalled, unsubbed a few weeks ago as I knew this was a total ****show and after being back in Eorsea on FF14 I can’t understand why I played this dumpster fire in the first place.

Nefas did a video comparison of eso "tutorial" with ff14's. I was speechless. There is absolutely no excuse for why they can't make a decent one. None. And then their answer is to nerf everything because new players complain about difficulty when the game literally never taught them how to play it. It's embarrassing.

Yeah, I started playing FF14 and completed Hall of the Novice as magic-focused DD. Amazing concept and solid implementation. Heck, even guild questlines teach you how to play, for example, thaumaturge questline shows that you have to properly manage your mana, crowd control key targets and focus down most dangerous ones. In ESO the closest thing to proper tutorial is vMA, but new player will need external guide and decent build in order to complete it without serious complications. Oh, and you need subscription / DLC.

"Play the way you want" is misleading. When you delve into endgame PvE or PvP, you will hit a wall sooner or later, and an uncomfortable truth will appear: you can play the way you want, but in order to win you have to play the way it works.

FeedbackOnly

Things are getting better as more top end adapts, but I don't think it's fair what we did to mid and low. We should build some way for people to understand rotations in amoury or bring back battle corner

baltic1284

So far so good have noticed a few odd bugs and issues like IC some the NPCs don't act right or stay in a single location all the time and never move or graphical issues and such but nothing like what some people were saying it would do. Has some of the challenge returned yes has damage output dropped yes but the game didn't end, and thousands of players didn't just leave either.

Many of the changes didn't affect the player base or the players nearly as bad as a few in the community made it sound. Has damage output lowered, yes but not nearly as game ending as a few said it would. I still can drop some of the most powerful NPC aside from IC bosses that are their areas but just about everything else i still can like before. PvP isn't so one player rules all driven anymore you starting to see more different builds then just one class and only that class.

VictorDragonslayer

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Farmed a Behemoth mask recently. All the same, the damage is still the same big.
Completed vIR hard mod. Everything is great. All bosses died in less than one minute, except last of course.
Oh... Listen guys. No, I'm not trolling. Especially since I haven't been to the trials yet. But it looks like the patch hit the weakest non-meta players.

Yes, all these balance shakeups are "sink or swim". The trick is, not all players come here to swim. They bought that game and it's their right to trade, do quests, RP, take screensshots. I don't see any value in housing and won't see it no matter what. There are people that see zero value in veteran content and won't see it no matter what. It's ok. ZOS made a logical mistake: some players do not engage in PvE endgame not because they can't, but because they can to not engage.

carlos424

: )

Krayl

All I have to say about it is that it feels like ZOS wants to have a war of attrition with it's user base.

"How unfun do we need to make the game to get people to quit?"

I can't think of any other MMO I've played that's been out for years that suddenly gets the urge to make it's game less fun to play.

If I managed the team that put together the misguided road map (if there ever was one, sure don't seem like it) for these nonsense changes, I'd fully expect to be fired. In the least, I'd expect them to have the guts to address the community and explain why this was allowed to go live despite the changes being completely antithetical to the problems they stated warranted them.

WHERE are the final fixes for the hybridization changes? That was like a year ago. You're too busy making card games and murdering the combat system to even finish what you started! The meta changes - AGAIN! Now we've got to farm more mats and gold so we can afford gold jewelry since the upgrade materials are ridiculously rare, and that's obnoxious.

ZOS peeps - your community is TIRED. And by that I literally mean exhausted. This game has become such a chore to play due to the constant moving of the goalposts that logging in literally induces sleep, and nerfing everyone's damage sure ain't gonna help that.

The formula has gotten old. If you want this game to be one of those MMO's that hangs around and has a long life, you should think about the content for users to experience and not tinkering with the core of how the game operates. It's probably 7 years too late for that.

boi_anachronism_

VictorDragonslayer wrote: »

radiostar wrote: »

Most error prone patch for getting kicked (timeouts (not moving around enough?), unknown "errors").

Most error prone patch for getting back into the game (character already logged, unknown "errors").

When in game, most group kicks (unknown reasons, mid fights (moving too fast?), mid quests, talking to npcs/companions, etc).

What the hell was Z smoking on this one??? LMAO

This application starts to fail miserably when load exceeds certain threshold. You can clearly see it in Cyro: more people produce more lags. It's hard to debug such problems on production environment (judging by disclaimer during NA hardware update, ZOS may not even know whether these problems are hardware-induced or software-induced, most likely both), I'm sure that engineers do their best, but business will invest money into performance testing, timely fixes and hardware upgrade only when money loss from downtime exceeds performance testing costs. How much money ZOS lose when you get disconnected from the trial several times in a row? Zero. Of course backend developers try to fix the game, but it takes time, effort and many man-hours.

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

iaminc wrote: »

Uninstalled, unsubbed a few weeks ago as I knew this was a total ****show and after being back in Eorsea on FF14 I can’t understand why I played this dumpster fire in the first place.

Nefas did a video comparison of eso "tutorial" with ff14's. I was speechless. There is absolutely no excuse for why they can't make a decent one. None. And then their answer is to nerf everything because new players complain about difficulty when the game literally never taught them how to play it. It's embarrassing.

Yeah, I started playing FF14 and completed Hall of the Novice as magic-focused DD. Amazing concept and solid implementation. Heck, even guild questlines teach you how to play, for example, thaumaturge questline shows that you have to properly manage your mana, crowd control key targets and focus down most dangerous ones. In ESO the closest thing to proper tutorial is vMA, but new player will need external guide and decent build in order to complete it without serious complications. Oh, and you need subscription / DLC.

"Play the way you want" is misleading. When you delve into endgame PvE or PvP, you will hit a wall sooner or later, and an uncomfortable truth will appear: you can play the way you want, but in order to win you have to play the way it works.

100% agree. Until I did vma I really just didn't get it. Mechanics are king even beyond damage and new players just don't get that. I sure didn't. My player competency was 1000% better by my 3rd completion.

mandricus

My experience with U35? No experience at all. Having 12 alts and having most of most of them builded with gold gear, based on what I've read on the forums, I decided to not login at all, and to take a break. It would hurt too much for me to see with my own eyes the sad truth I already know. I followed all the threads on the PTS section and, while I've to say (unpopular opinion) that ZOS listened to some feedbacks and complaints from the player base, implementing some fixes in the PTS cycle, the outcome was quite clear since day 1. Some things were fixed or changed, some weren't. There is no time for everything, PTS cycles are too shorts and live release deadlines are fixed and known. Heck, to be honest I don't even know if the changes are good or bad for the long term. But the question is: is there really a long term? This game keep changing fundamental stuff 8 years after its release, on a cyclical base. I don't know if a long term will ever exist at this point. May be the long term vision is too keep changing stuff. What i know is that I'm done farming stuff, golding stuff, trying to find a build for a Magplar, a Stamblade or a Magcro just to enjoy it for some monts (or even weeks, sometimes), and having to start from scratch again with most of them every 3 or 6 months. Not because I don't like it. It's always fun to try a new build. But, the point is, I have to continuously change them not because i want it, but because I have to. I give up at this point.

blktauna

On EU my templar had to switch out of jabs. They did literally nothing. like no damage. ugh.
I havent tried anything else yet

SeaGtGruff

Riptide wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Riptide wrote: »

So what exactly is improved in this patch? Which players are better off today than Sunday?

People who do not engage in veteran content but delight in the discomfort of those who do. That is the truth of it.

Thankfully such petty people are very rare. Unfortunately they are very vocal, even eloquent.

A few people are stating that they've found U35's changes to be basically unnoticeable or even a little bit of a buff to some of their characters. How is that taking "delight in the discomfort of those who" "engage in veteran content"?

Mate, you yourself have said you are doing normal content. Overland and normal, of course you will see little difference,. The wind could blow in a certain direction and you feel a “little bit of a buff”. It is not challenging content.

To you-- it is "not challenging" to you. And not challenging to a lot of other players, I'm sure, because I'll be soloing a world boss and have someone come along, melt it, and then go running off.

But I see a lot of other players in zone chat asking for help with world bosses, because they can't solo them. I wasn't always able to solo them, either, and I still can't solo some of them. So for you to make a blanket statement that "It is not challenging content" without adding any qualifiers, such as "to me," or "to a lot of players," sort of comes across to me as some of that "thinly veiled nastiness" which you have accused others of, as though you're completely dismissive toward anyone who does find it challenging, as though they don't matter in the slightest. That may or may not be what you intended, but it comes across that way to anyone who does find certain overland content challenging.

Riptide wrote: »

Very large swings in balance, in either direction, will rarely be felt strongly there by most people, and that is the brass tacks.

On the contrary, the update that came out a few years ago was strongly felt, both by me and by many other people. I'm sorry, but I can't supply the name of the update, and am not sure if it was two or three years ago, but it was the one where resource costs of skills, as well as resource recovery, changed to the point where many, many players were complaining in the forums about running out of Stamina and then not being able to recover from it. I found myself unable to solo certain PvE content after that, and it took me a long, long time to adjust my fighting style to accommodate to those changes.

And then I took another hit from last year's update, when I went overnight from being able to solo all of the world bosses in Northern Elsweyr to not being able to solo at least one of them on my PC EU main, although my PC NA main could still do it.

That content might not be challenging to you, but it is to me, and I enjoy doing it. And U35 hasn't affected my ability to solo that content the way previous updates did.

Riptide wrote: »

Veteran content, as you well know, is several orders of difficulty more challenging, and there is where anyone will see the the differences in balance changes in stark relief.

And you do not have people saying they are able to do things in normal or overland they were unable to do before. Merely anecdotal “feels fine”. And they may “feel fine” but that doesn’t mean they are “better off” any more than the grifted are “better off” when they buy some snake oil. They “feel fine”, sure. It doesn’t mean they are “better off”. Is a person “better off” if the max speed of their automobile is reduced 20kph, even if they do not “feel” it since they only drive in school zones? Those who use the autobahn know neither of them are, despite the exclusive school zone driver “feeling fine”.

More than one poster here, who “feels fine” after doing some overland or normal dungeons, have went out or their way to make multiple posts intimating that the nerfs, which they don’t “feel”, were initiated because veteran content consumers intimated that overland was too trivial and desired a more challenging mode for it. And go out of there way, repeatedly, to intimate that they got what they asked for.

It is thinly veiled nastiness, is what it is. Those folks have played the forum minigame for years with their foil being endgame content consumers that they resent, and they read like an open book about it. I submit that if you haven’t seen the comments for what they are then you choose not to. Or, you share the view and are friendly to the approach. Which, more power to you.

But a spade is a spade.

Thank you for clarifying which types of comments you were alluding to, but it seems like both sides of the "vets vs. casuals" divide can suffer from a lack of sympathy toward the other side.

Tsilara

As someone who mainly plays healers in Vet Dungeons and Hard modes.

The healing across my 5 healers has been nerfed 30 to 50% but damage output from mobs and bosses and effects has not.

These changes didn't break the game completely, but it broke my desire to play the game in a manner I enjoyed completely.

Knowing what I lost and after testing, its just demoralizing and the sense of loss is real.

I can't as easily save inexperienced and or sloppy players, nor easily provide dps on par with a dps focus'd toon as I used to be able too.

I have severe resource issues now. The self healing that tanks and dps has is completely sufficient in most cases if you know the fight mechanics for most 4 man vets, save a couple of fights with a synergistic meta build group.

The ones with actual heal and dps checks, people in the random Vet's I ran with are now struggling quite a bit with and I can't easily out heal the damage without the other players adding in their own self healing capabilities.

My healing contribution dropped from 70 to 90% to around 40% on most vet runs, sometimes much less. My DPS contribution while healing has roughly halved.

Its not rewarding anymore. I can't play the way I want to play anymore and am now forced to follow a meta build in gear and skills.

The compounding effects make me feel as if I am just along as a buff bot, not to make sure people get through a vet or hard mode without dying. These changes are not the game I want to play, but things were fun while it lasted.

Hopefully things improve, but I think my time is done until that day comes.

To me, its just depressing compared to what it was and logging in and playing see everything I lost in the new numbers and combat metrics and the sense of accomplishment to get to where I was with those toons is now a blanket feeling of loss across all of them.

peacenote

Experience in one play session:

Yesterday was raid night. Two people couldn't make it and we had to call the raid BECAUSE THERE ARE NO FILLS. No one knows anyone who is still playing who was willing to DPS in our trial. It used to be you could throw a sweet roll and hit a DPS willing to jump in.

To me, this is why the patch failed regardless of anything else. It occurred to me last night that perhaps this patch was REALLY a way to attack inflation, because as I was listing things in the guild store I wondered if I was pricing things too high because demand is probably going down.

Instead, our dungeon group decided to play. We trio'd Falkreath Hold on normal for a bit waiting for our fourth player to farm Pillar of Nirn gear. And from a "beating the content" perspective I will say I do feel bad for folks who are saying normals are too slow now. We had no issue. It was super super fast to clear. Did not even bother with Dungeon Finder to get a fourth and we didn't really tweak anything for the patch. Three templars... 2 magplar DPS and one hybrid DPS/heals. The latter was me, because next up was Dread Cellar no death runs and I was too lazy to switch my CP and morphs to full DPS. Reading through everyone's feedback, I really agree with people who say we need better tutorials.

The jabs change makes me want to cry. My poor templar looks like she is going to fall over every time she pulls out the spear. I hate the change so much. I have been using this skill since beta and loved it as part of my templar identity. If the animation had been shortened but left otherwise the same, it is something perhaps I could get used to but it is just the worst. It feels wrong, it looks wrong, it's not fun.

In harder content as a full healer aligning my timers/buff felt a little off, but I really need more time with different setups in more dungeons and trials to say how I have been impacted there.

The only other thing I noticed was that my damage, as a hybrid wearing all healing slottables, was often, pull per pull, comparable to the numbers my full DPS friends were pulling. No idea what that means but it seemed wrong. You know, kind of like a game had a bunch of combat changes thrown against the wall, and as a result some skills were over nerfed and some were missed such that by mere happenstance I could keep up because I maybe hit skills that were less gutted.

For reference, skill wise, my friends/ our team is considered intermediate. We've cleared stuff like vMOL HM but struggled with vKA HM as a team. We are not super elite. That said, if we can't find 12 people to play at the same time suddenly all trial content has become inaccessible which is a huge step backwards!

I didn't have time to PvP or try my other characters yet.

Parasaurolophus

peacenote wrote: »

Experience in one play session:

Yesterday was raid night. Two people couldn't make it and we had to call the raid BECAUSE THERE ARE NO FILLS. No one knows anyone who is still playing who was willing to DPS in our trial. It used to be you could throw a sweet roll and hit a DPS willing to jump in.

To me, this is why the patch failed regardless of anything else. It occurred to me last night that perhaps this patch was REALLY a way to attack inflation, because as I was listing things in the guild store I wondered if I was pricing things too high because demand is probably going down.

Instead, our dungeon group decided to play. We trio'd Falkreath Hold on normal for a bit waiting for our fourth player to farm Pillar of Nirn gear. And from a "beating the content" perspective I will say I do feel bad for folks who are saying normals are too slow now. We had no issue. It was super super fast to clear. Did not even bother with Dungeon Finder to get a fourth and we didn't really tweak anything for the patch. Three templars... 2 magplar DPS and one hybrid DPS/heals. The latter was me, because next up was Dread Cellar no death runs and I was too lazy to switch my CP and morphs to full DPS. Reading through everyone's feedback, I really agree with people who say we need better tutorials.

The jabs change makes me want to cry. My poor templar looks like she is going to fall over every time she pulls out the spear. I hate the change so much. I have been using this skill since beta and loved it as part of my templar identity. If the animation had been shortened but left otherwise the same, it is something perhaps I could get used to but it is just the worst. It feels wrong, it looks wrong, it's not fun.

In harder content as a full healer aligning my timers/buff felt a little off, but I really need more time with different setups in more dungeons and trials to say how I have been impacted there.

The only other thing I noticed was that my damage, as a hybrid wearing all healing slottables, was often, pull per pull, comparable to the numbers my full DPS friends were pulling. No idea what that means but it seemed wrong. You know, kind of like a game had a bunch of combat changes thrown against the wall, and as a result some skills were over nerfed and some were missed such that by mere happenstance I could keep up because I maybe hit skills that were less gutted.

For reference, skill wise, my friends/ our team is considered intermediate. We've cleared stuff like vMOL HM but struggled with vKA HM as a team. We are not super elite. That said, if we can't find 12 people to play at the same time suddenly all trial content has become inaccessible which is a huge step backwards!

I didn't have time to PvP or try my other characters yet.

Same. Dungeons are no problem.

Marronsuisse

I said before that I lost 40% of my DPS on my PVE builds. It sucks but for some reason I figured my PVP build would be mostly fine.

I can't even heal damage from NPCs in Cyrodiil anymore, let alone players. I told everyone I'd take care of a resource, something I could easily solo last week, and not only could I not put a dent in the NPCs' health, my HOTs and burst heal did next to nothing. I died in less than 10 seconds.

I don't understand why some people say nothing has changed for them, and meanwhile I can't even play anymore outside of overland quests. It's like I'm back to when I started the game last year.

I've had my progress accidentally reset in single player games. It sucks, but I eventually play back to where I was. It hits different in a social MMO. I was excited about a guild event this weekend, and now I have nothing to contribute. I've spent so long trying to catch up to other players so I could join in, and that progress is gone.

veznan5

Overall content has become more difficult and longer to clear.
I just completed my vet vateshran as a warden run last night,

compared to prepatch it took around 50% longer(80min to 55min)

adds were more dangerous due to their constant spawning and lower dps making dealing with them take longer

survival was harder and healing needed to be used more often.

the only thing that was better in this patch was that debuff upkeep became easier due to longer dot times, but that's a compensation to the dps loss

I think its reasonable to say that this trend is present in all content

Riptide

To you-- it is "not challenging" to you. And not challenging to a lot of other players, I'm sure, because I'll be soloing a world boss and have someone come along, melt it, and then go running off.

But I see a lot of other players in zone chat asking for help with world bosses, because they can't solo them. I wasn't always able to solo them, either, and I still can't solo some of them. So for you to make a blanket statement that "It is not challenging content" without adding any qualifiers, such as "to me," or "to a lot of players," sort of comes across to me as some of that "thinly veiled nastiness" which you have accused others of, as though you're completely dismissive toward anyone who does find it challenging, as though they don't matter in the slightest. That may or may not be what you intended, but it comes across that way to anyone who does find certain overland content challenging.

Certain. That is the operative word. “Certain” overland content. World bosses make up 1% or so of overland content, 5% at the very outside. Respectfully, to focus on that, while ignoring the 95-99% is the very definition of a straw man.

Thank you for clarifying which types of comments you were alluding to, but it seems like both sides of the "vets vs. casuals" divide can suffer from a lack of sympathy toward the other side.

I very strongly disagree. Almost all of us who participate in end game content actively help new players. You would be hard pressed to find an end game player who has not at least one example of mentoring a new player. Most of us have many, many examples - and actively do so constantly. Not only do most endgame players have sympathy for new players but actively spend our time to help make their experience better.

The better word to unpack is empathy. By virtue of every single endgame content consumer having in fact been a new player, every one of them understands what it is like to be in that situation, which makes it very easy to feel compassion for them.

Contrarily, people who have not participated actively in end game content like progression trials must needs imagine and hypothesize at the drives and concerns of those that do. And often attribute negative connotations that do not exist, supported by fictional situations whereby world bosses make up the bulk of overland content and the like.

I mean this respectfully, but indeed my post that you responded pointed out thinly veiled negativity, punctuated with the adage of calling a spade a spade. And so to infer that I or others share said negativity, by presenting a thinly veiled fallacy (that world bosses make up overland content) - it goes right to the heart of what I am getting at. A penchant quite a number of folks on this forum have for pretending a spade is a rake in order to utilize end game content consumers as a foil, when all along they are there to help.

I wonder….did you feel thankful to the person who came along and helped with the world boss? Or did you have a negative reaction? That is a rhetorical question, but I submit some folks deeply resent that sort of thing, even though it helped them and the other person was in fact trying to be helpful. Some of those sort of folks are active posters here, and are driven by that inexplicable agenda.

I have never, not once in ESOs history, found in game a person who resents new or casual players. Not once. But I have however found quite a bit of resentment towards endgame players by a handful of casual players. And those are the folks that are universally thought poorly of once people see them for what they are, because they truly are toxic, and certainly create angst everywhere they go.

SerafinaWaterstar

Oh I am <so> looking forward to this coming to consoles.

thedocbwarren

My first impression was it seemed to take a little longer to get through some minor encounters that were trivial or instant. I ended up just running and ignoring the useless mobs in PVE as it's not worth the engagement any more. I'll play a bit more but must admit I'm spending less time online since the U35 announce. Will see over time if this makes any meaningful difference to me personally. I am not an elite player. I was able to solo dungeons a few patches before and that stopped recently and with one other and companions it was almost not doable for just about every dungeon. Will see if that changes to none of them doable with our play style. If so, I'll look elsewhere. And given the constant tweaking i don't even bother with trying to "get gud" on this or even bother with CP allocations since seems they do nothing.

Love the game, don't get me wrong.

renne

rmajereub17_ESO wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Nefas did a video comparison of eso "tutorial" with ff14's. I was speechless. There is absolutely no excuse for why they can't make a decent one. None. And then their answer is to nerf everything because new players complain about difficulty when the game literally never taught them how to play it. It's embarrassing.

His video trying to raid on U35 was a hard watch, not cool for so many ppl what's happened. The tutorial vid blew my mind though.

I didn't watch the video of the attempt, but his post raid video was just demoralising, and quite frankly makes me even more worried about what this is going to be like on console where everything is just straight up not as snappy with FPS, and without all the assistance mods for mechanics, and skills, and timers and buffs. This is all stuff we on console have to manually learn and react to, and there's just so many completely inconsistent changes slammed onto us all at once with this, it's going to be a REALLY grim patch for us.

But I guess we're just here to be whales for ZOS, because almost nothing they ever do even thinks about the console impact and experience.

SeaGtGruff

Riptide wrote: »

To you-- it is "not challenging" to you. And not challenging to a lot of other players, I'm sure, because I'll be soloing a world boss and have someone come along, melt it, and then go running off.

But I see a lot of other players in zone chat asking for help with world bosses, because they can't solo them. I wasn't always able to solo them, either, and I still can't solo some of them. So for you to make a blanket statement that "It is not challenging content" without adding any qualifiers, such as "to me," or "to a lot of players," sort of comes across to me as some of that "thinly veiled nastiness" which you have accused others of, as though you're completely dismissive toward anyone who does find it challenging, as though they don't matter in the slightest. That may or may not be what you intended, but it comes across that way to anyone who does find certain overland content challenging.

Certain. That is the operative word. “Certain” overland content. World bosses make up 1% or so of overland content, 5% at the very outside. Respectfully, to focus on that, while ignoring the 95-99% is the very definition of a straw man.

Thank you for clarifying which types of comments you were alluding to, but it seems like both sides of the "vets vs. casuals" divide can suffer from a lack of sympathy toward the other side.

I very strongly disagree. Almost all of us who participate in end game content actively help new players. You would be hard pressed to find an end game player who has not at least one example of mentoring a new player. Most of us have many, many examples - and actively do so constantly. Not only do most endgame players have sympathy for new players but actively spend our time to help make their experience better.

The better word to unpack is empathy. By virtue of every single endgame content consumer having in fact been a new player, every one of them understands what it is like to be in that situation, which makes it very easy to feel compassion for them.

Contrarily, people who have not participated actively in end game content like progression trials must needs imagine and hypothesize at the drives and concerns of those that do. And often attribute negative connotations that do not exist, supported by fictional situations whereby world bosses make up the bulk of overland content and the like.

I mean this respectfully, but indeed my post that you responded pointed out thinly veiled negativity, punctuated with the adage of calling a spade a spade. And so to infer that I or others share said negativity, by presenting a thinly veiled fallacy (that world bosses make up overland content) - it goes right to the heart of what I am getting at. A penchant quite a number of folks on this forum have for pretending a spade is a rake in order to utilize end game content consumers as a foil, when all along they are there to help.

I wonder….did you feel thankful to the person who came along and helped with the world boss? Or did you have a negative reaction? That is a rhetorical question, but I submit some folks deeply resent that sort of thing, even though it helped them and the other person was in fact trying to be helpful. Some of those sort of folks are active posters here, and are driven by that inexplicable agenda.

I have never, not once in ESOs history, found in game a person who resents new or casual players. Not once. But I have however found quite a bit of resentment towards endgame players by a handful of casual players. And those are the folks that are universally thought poorly of once people see them for what they are, because they truly are toxic, and certainly create angst everywhere they go.

It almost sounds like you want to exclude world bosses from overland content because you don't think it makes up enough of a percentage. If you want to talk about the majority of overland content, then say "the majority of overland content." When you use a blanket all-encompassing term rather than clarifying that you aren't referring to all of it, the implication is that you are referring to all of it.

I do question your percentage, though. How did you calculate it? Was it based on the amount of a zone's surface area? If so, then the rocks and trees make up a larger percentage of overland content than the world bosses do. Except I don't see any daily quest givers in the zones handing out jobs to go deal with troublesome rocks and trees. They don't ask you to go kill the overland mobs, either. No, they ask you to go do a delve, go kill a world boss, and maybe (depending on the zone) take care of a "world event" such as a harrowstorm or dragon, or do some other zone-specific job like recover Ashlander relics. So if you look at world bosses in terms of overland content that players are encouraged to engage in day after day, by virtue of a zone's daily repeatable quests, they make up a lot more than 1% of the overland content.

When you ask me whether I ever felt thankful toward players who came along and helped me with a world boss, is that meant as a rhetorical question that you believe you already know the answer to? Yes, I was grateful for players who helped me kill a world boss that I couldn't solo. No, I don't feel particularly grateful toward clearly-OP players who come along and melt a world boss that I'm in the midst of soloing. On the other hand, if I'm soloing a world boss and other players join in without melting it in mere seconds, I tell everyone "gg" after we all finish off the boss together. And if I see someone ask for help with a world boss in zone chat, I go to help them if I'm not too busy with something else-- not because I want their gratitude, but because I want to help them have fun.

And that last word, "fun," is exactly why I don't feel particularly grateful toward an OP player who comes along and melts a boss that I was soloing-- because they just ended my fun prematurely. I don't fight world bosses just for daily quest rewards, or for zone gear drops, although of course I sometimes do it for those rewards. But most of the time I do it because I have fun engaging in a fight that isn't over in a few seconds. I would fight them even if there were no rewards, because to me the fight is a reward in itself. I don't want the fight to go on forever, but I don't mind if it goes on for a long time as long as there are real opportunities for me to slip up and die. For example, I don't enjoy troll bosses that constantly regenerate their health, since the "fight" boils down to damaging their health faster than they heal, which is tedious and boring to me. But a boss that takes a long time to kill because it spawns waves of adds that must be dealt with, and that attacks you in ways that need to be dodged or blocked or interrupted, is a lot more fun to me because I'm not just bashing away on it like it's a test dummy.

You suggest that I'm concocting some sort of fictional strawman argument. I suggest that you seem to be marginalizing any sort of overland content that doesn't fit into your "overland is not challenging" narrative. And I repeat what I said-- it might not be challenging to you, but that doesn't mean it isn't challenging for anyone. And when you make a sweeping generalization like that without qualifying it, and seemingly without allowing for any exceptions-- and even going so far as to suggest that any exceptions which someone mentions is just a strawman argument-- you are essentially belittling any players who do find any challenges in overland content.

morrowjen

I feel like I need to amend my prior statement. After running both vCR and a vet HM dungeon, things are far worse than just having my damage halved in vKA. Now I worry if the game is worth playing in its current state and I fear for PUGs (something I used to love doing).

With more time spent, I've gone from thinking, "No problem, we will get those gains back" to questioning what I should do going forward. Given what this community means and has meant to me that's not a small statement.

heaven13

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Riptide wrote: »

To you-- it is "not challenging" to you. And not challenging to a lot of other players, I'm sure, because I'll be soloing a world boss and have someone come along, melt it, and then go running off.

But I see a lot of other players in zone chat asking for help with world bosses, because they can't solo them. I wasn't always able to solo them, either, and I still can't solo some of them. So for you to make a blanket statement that "It is not challenging content" without adding any qualifiers, such as "to me," or "to a lot of players," sort of comes across to me as some of that "thinly veiled nastiness" which you have accused others of, as though you're completely dismissive toward anyone who does find it challenging, as though they don't matter in the slightest. That may or may not be what you intended, but it comes across that way to anyone who does find certain overland content challenging.

Certain. That is the operative word. “Certain” overland content. World bosses make up 1% or so of overland content, 5% at the very outside. Respectfully, to focus on that, while ignoring the 95-99% is the very definition of a straw man.

Thank you for clarifying which types of comments you were alluding to, but it seems like both sides of the "vets vs. casuals" divide can suffer from a lack of sympathy toward the other side.

I very strongly disagree. Almost all of us who participate in end game content actively help new players. You would be hard pressed to find an end game player who has not at least one example of mentoring a new player. Most of us have many, many examples - and actively do so constantly. Not only do most endgame players have sympathy for new players but actively spend our time to help make their experience better.

The better word to unpack is empathy. By virtue of every single endgame content consumer having in fact been a new player, every one of them understands what it is like to be in that situation, which makes it very easy to feel compassion for them.

Contrarily, people who have not participated actively in end game content like progression trials must needs imagine and hypothesize at the drives and concerns of those that do. And often attribute negative connotations that do not exist, supported by fictional situations whereby world bosses make up the bulk of overland content and the like.

I mean this respectfully, but indeed my post that you responded pointed out thinly veiled negativity, punctuated with the adage of calling a spade a spade. And so to infer that I or others share said negativity, by presenting a thinly veiled fallacy (that world bosses make up overland content) - it goes right to the heart of what I am getting at. A penchant quite a number of folks on this forum have for pretending a spade is a rake in order to utilize end game content consumers as a foil, when all along they are there to help.

I wonder….did you feel thankful to the person who came along and helped with the world boss? Or did you have a negative reaction? That is a rhetorical question, but I submit some folks deeply resent that sort of thing, even though it helped them and the other person was in fact trying to be helpful. Some of those sort of folks are active posters here, and are driven by that inexplicable agenda.

I have never, not once in ESOs history, found in game a person who resents new or casual players. Not once. But I have however found quite a bit of resentment towards endgame players by a handful of casual players. And those are the folks that are universally thought poorly of once people see them for what they are, because they truly are toxic, and certainly create angst everywhere they go.

It almost sounds like you want to exclude world bosses from overland content because you don't think it makes up enough of a percentage. If you want to talk about the majority of overland content, then say "the majority of overland content." When you use a blanket all-encompassing term rather than clarifying that you aren't referring to all of it, the implication is that you are referring to all of it.

I do question your percentage, though. How did you calculate it? Was it based on the amount of a zone's surface area? If so, then the rocks and trees make up a larger percentage of overland content than the world bosses do. Except I don't see any daily quest givers in the zones handing out jobs to go deal with troublesome rocks and trees. They don't ask you to go kill the overland mobs, either. No, they ask you to go do a delve, go kill a world boss, and maybe (depending on the zone) take care of a "world event" such as a harrowstorm or dragon, or do some other zone-specific job like recover Ashlander relics. So if you look at world bosses in terms of overland content that players are encouraged to engage in day after day, by virtue of a zone's daily repeatable quests, they make up a lot more than 1% of the overland content.

When you ask me whether I ever felt thankful toward players who came along and helped me with a world boss, is that meant as a rhetorical question that you believe you already know the answer to? Yes, I was grateful for players who helped me kill a world boss that I couldn't solo. No, I don't feel particularly grateful toward clearly-OP players who come along and melt a world boss that I'm in the midst of soloing. On the other hand, if I'm soloing a world boss and other players join in without melting it in mere seconds, I tell everyone "gg" after we all finish off the boss together. And if I see someone ask for help with a world boss in zone chat, I go to help them if I'm not too busy with something else-- not because I want their gratitude, but because I want to help them have fun.

And that last word, "fun," is exactly why I don't feel particularly grateful toward an OP player who comes along and melts a boss that I was soloing-- because they just ended my fun prematurely. I don't fight world bosses just for daily quest rewards, or for zone gear drops, although of course I sometimes do it for those rewards. But most of the time I do it because I have fun engaging in a fight that isn't over in a few seconds. I would fight them even if there were no rewards, because to me the fight is a reward in itself. I don't want the fight to go on forever, but I don't mind if it goes on for a long time as long as there are real opportunities for me to slip up and die. For example, I don't enjoy troll bosses that constantly regenerate their health, since the "fight" boils down to damaging their health faster than they heal, which is tedious and boring to me. But a boss that takes a long time to kill because it spawns waves of adds that must be dealt with, and that attacks you in ways that need to be dodged or blocked or interrupted, is a lot more fun to me because I'm not just bashing away on it like it's a test dummy.

You suggest that I'm concocting some sort of fictional strawman argument. I suggest that you seem to be marginalizing any sort of overland content that doesn't fit into your "overland is not challenging" narrative. And I repeat what I said-- it might not be challenging to you, but that doesn't mean it isn't challenging for anyone. And when you make a sweeping generalization like that without qualifying it, and seemingly without allowing for any exceptions-- and even going so far as to suggest that any exceptions which someone mentions is just a strawman argument-- you are essentially belittling any players who do find any challenges in overland content.

Bolded emphasis mine

I just want to point out that THAT is exactly why people ask for harder overland. Not because they just want to mindlessly beat on something for a long period of time, but because they enjoy the challenge of performing mechanics and succeeding! It’s why people enjoy doing vMA and vVH, even if it’s not the weekly. We want to enjoy a challenge, particularly from story bosses who are hyped to be incredibly powerful.

It’s not what this patch was about, at all. U35 mostly affects veteran content because, as others have pointed out, the more difficult something is the more you’re likely to feel the changes and it’s done in a way to just slow down dps and make it take longer; it’s not necessarily engaging depending on the fight. My partner was saying it felt like playing on EU where he has 1/3 of the CP (500 vs 1500) in terms of TTK. Was he more in danger of dying? Not in the particular content he was in at the time. And, depending on the fight, it actually becomes impossible or sets the actual mid tier prog groups back multiple patches in terms of their progression through content.

Tenthirty2

My experience so far.
Yeah...

These combat updates are a mistake and need correction.
I did not join PTS to test this before live, I already had a feeling it would go this badly when I heard that VERY overused U35 phrase "Raise the floor and lower the ceiling"
I'm sorry, but as someone who has spent a career in the corporate world that phrase sounds like nothing more than mindless corpobabble that fell out of someone's face in a project planning meeting and it describes nothing about what was actually done. So I already had a lot of warning bells going off.
Even when I read about many of the adjustments they were going to implement I was still not finding logic there.
Like ok, summing it up basically I will do less damage and combat will take longer...

Maybe a good intention was there at the start but somewhere between intention and implementation someone didn't play the telephone game right.

So what was done ended up hobbling a major chunk of the player base.
Raze the floor more like.

I fall firmly into the category of player that these changes were supposed to help make "veteran content more accessible"
How.
By doing less damage? By making my rotation feel like I've regressed in player skill by 2 years?
By my skills not firing and making me so frustrated that I want to monkey-mash on the keyboard hoping something flies out of my character that actually deals damage?

Rich? I think? Said wait and see, just try it. I felt that was fair, so I did.
Now that I've tried it, I do not like it.
Combat was one of the things I did enjoy about ESO and feeling like I could actually yanno, kill stuff.
Combat is no longer fun and I feel like I've had all the skills I've been working on for the past couple years just trashed.

I actually posted a lengthy, for fun "story time" thread the other day, which has since been plowed under prolly back to like page 57 of the forum by tones of threads like this one, whatever. But in it I shared some personal triumphs I got to enjoy a couple weeks before U35 went live.
I improved my build AND my skill as a player by a huge mark, gods it felt good.
I soloed Shipwright's Regret, then Blackheart Haven, then Lair of Maarselok and finally Moongrave Fane.

For me, being the kind of player who's floor needed to be raised I was THRILLED, easily the best week I ever had in ESO.

Could I do that now? I doubt it, especially Moongrave bcuz that dungeon does NOT forgive.

I wasn't going to post this bcuz there is so much salt about this stupid update already, but whatever, adding a bit more salt if it will matter.

So yeah my experience so far is again, the combat updates are a mistake and need to be corrected, if not completely reverted.
And then somebody or -bodies on the development team really need to go back and look at why they thought this was even necessary in the first bloody place?
What was the intention, really?
And where were the droves of players clamoring for these changes?
Or was it supposed to help with server performance. No, can't be that bcuz from what I've experienced this week server performance is the same, or actually a bit worse at times.

Enough salt, I'm done.

Just correct the horrible combat changes, please.

Jaraal

morrowjen wrote: »

I feel like I need to amend my prior statement. After running both vCR and a vet HM dungeon, things are far worse than just having my damage halved in vKA. Now I worry if the game is worth playing in its current state and I fear for PUGs (something I used to love doing).

With more time spent, I've gone from thinking, "No problem, we will get those gains back" to questioning what I should do going forward. Given what this community means and has meant to me that's not a small statement.

Yeah I’ve noticed that my regular dungeons take longer, doing dailies take longer, killing players in Cyrodiil takes longer, even leveling my alts takes longer. I’ve been focusing on doing things that still take the same amount of time, like stealing, housing, crafting, etc. But those things are not something I plan on changing my long term focus towards.

My time is limited, so when normal things take longer to do, I find myself finding other things to do with the time. Nobody likes to lose progress in games, and losing 20-40% of your damage and healing isn’t something you’re going to overcome, if you’ve been doing this a while. It’s human nature to get discouraged by setbacks, especially those out of our control. So no one should be surprised by the number of people who are just walking away.