Oakensoul Change Take 2, Electric Boogaloo

Vylaera

No oakensoul change in 8.0.4

Would have liked to see the Major Courage changed to Minor Courage but all-in-all this ring isn't bad at all.

You won't be using it in the elite endgame but it's viable for all PvE in between for most classes, including vet trials where you're playing a little more casually rather than hardcore score pushing. Vet Dungeons are all completable easily and efficiently with Oakensoul, normal dungeons are soloable easily as well (barring mechanics that require multiple people), and you're able to fit enough utility on your single bar and still get enough damage for solo Vet Arenas as well.

Of all the possible outcomes for this Mythic, we didn't get the absolute best one, but we definitely got a good one. I'll be using this on a few characters for more casual gameplay where I can turn my brain off after work and still perform well.

Sucks it'll be totally useless in PvP outside of werewolves though, but that's more to do with not being able to perform well with only one bar, rather than this mythic not being good enough.

jaws343

Dracane wrote: »

BroughBreaux wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

Just going to look forward to the inevitable MYM DKs keep spamming corrosive armor so they must be cheating posts that will definitely be coming in a few months.

[edited to remove quote]

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

We have recently removed some unnecessary back-and-forth in addition to some off-topic comments from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.

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silver1surfer69

thing is this is kinda designed for the not so experienced players - like dark convergence.

What happens is that the expereinced endgame players (pvp) make a meta with it.

we will have so many 1 bar oakensoul builds in pvp and they will smash everything.

This will kill balance and diversity untill the nerf comes when the chapter has sold enough.

Next months will be very 1 sided in (smallscale) pvp.

Merforum

BroughBreaux wrote: »

No oakensoul change in 8.0.4

Would have liked to see the Major Courage changed to Minor Courage but all-in-all this ring isn't bad at all.

You won't be using it in the elite endgame but it's viable for all PvE in between for most classes, including vet trials where you're playing a little more casually rather than hardcore score pushing. Vet Dungeons are all completable easily and efficiently with Oakensoul, normal dungeons are soloable easily as well (barring mechanics that require multiple people), and you're able to fit enough utility on your single bar and still get enough damage for solo Vet Arenas as well.

Of all the possible outcomes for this Mythic, we didn't get the absolute best one, but we definitely got a good one. I'll be using this on a few characters for more casual gameplay where I can turn my brain off after work and still perform well.

Sucks it'll be totally useless in PvP outside of werewolves though, but that's more to do with not being able to perform well with only one bar, rather than this mythic not being good enough.

Agree, the people that say it will be OP in PVP are just worried that lots of people they can beat today with high APM will be more competitive. The high end PVPers will never use this ring because it has way too many drawbacks. Mostly being able to have massive damage on one bar and massive defense on the other. One bar can never make up for that loss. Although if someone does figure out a way to close the gap on those players, SO WHAT, that is actually a good thing. It should go live as is and not be nerfed in a few months, but there will be massive PVP complaints that should be ignored.

Toxic_Hemlock

silver1surfer69 wrote: »

thing is this is kinda designed for the not so experienced players - like dark convergence.

What happens is that the expereinced endgame players (pvp) make a meta with it.

we will have so many 1 bar oakensoul builds in pvp and they will smash everything.

This will kill balance and diversity untill the nerf comes when the chapter has sold enough.

Next months will be very 1 sided in (smallscale) pvp.

And I will never see those people, but my gameplay will be much more enjoyable.

Like I said in an earlier post, if the competitive crowd find a way to use it to their benefit, hence being completive, IDK. It will make me want to explore Craglorn finally and maybe do an arena that I pay for with ESO+.

I for one am very glad there is not any big changes in 8.0.4. I have a few alts that will use it now so long as none of the leads require a flawless trial run!

edit: old fingers

goldenarcher1

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

silver1surfer69 wrote: »

I for one am very glad there is not any big changes in 8.0.4. I have a few alts that will use it now so long as none of the leads require a flawless trial run!

edit: old fingers

Good question about the leads.

This mythic will be great for my mindless Master's Greatsword brawler build.

Vylaera

Merforum wrote: »

BroughBreaux wrote: »

No oakensoul change in 8.0.4

Would have liked to see the Major Courage changed to Minor Courage but all-in-all this ring isn't bad at all.

You won't be using it in the elite endgame but it's viable for all PvE in between for most classes, including vet trials where you're playing a little more casually rather than hardcore score pushing. Vet Dungeons are all completable easily and efficiently with Oakensoul, normal dungeons are soloable easily as well (barring mechanics that require multiple people), and you're able to fit enough utility on your single bar and still get enough damage for solo Vet Arenas as well.

Of all the possible outcomes for this Mythic, we didn't get the absolute best one, but we definitely got a good one. I'll be using this on a few characters for more casual gameplay where I can turn my brain off after work and still perform well.

Sucks it'll be totally useless in PvP outside of werewolves though, but that's more to do with not being able to perform well with only one bar, rather than this mythic not being good enough.

Agree, the people that say it will be OP in PVP are just worried that lots of people they can beat today with high APM will be more competitive. The high end PVPers will never use this ring because it has way too many drawbacks. Mostly being able to have massive damage on one bar and massive defense on the other. One bar can never make up for that loss. Although if someone does figure out a way to close the gap on those players, SO WHAT, that is actually a good thing. It should go live as is and not be nerfed in a few months, but there will be massive PVP complaints that should be ignored.

Yeah exactly. The people saying it will be OP in PvP probably don't actually spend any time making builds and just sit on the forums complaining.

Oakensoul is totally useless in PvP. No one will get any use out of it, including ganks. I've throughly tested it and it's utter trash in a PvP environment.

Merforum

BroughBreaux wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

BroughBreaux wrote: »

No oakensoul change in 8.0.4

Would have liked to see the Major Courage changed to Minor Courage but all-in-all this ring isn't bad at all.

You won't be using it in the elite endgame but it's viable for all PvE in between for most classes, including vet trials where you're playing a little more casually rather than hardcore score pushing. Vet Dungeons are all completable easily and efficiently with Oakensoul, normal dungeons are soloable easily as well (barring mechanics that require multiple people), and you're able to fit enough utility on your single bar and still get enough damage for solo Vet Arenas as well.

Of all the possible outcomes for this Mythic, we didn't get the absolute best one, but we definitely got a good one. I'll be using this on a few characters for more casual gameplay where I can turn my brain off after work and still perform well.

Sucks it'll be totally useless in PvP outside of werewolves though, but that's more to do with not being able to perform well with only one bar, rather than this mythic not being good enough.

Agree, the people that say it will be OP in PVP are just worried that lots of people they can beat today with high APM will be more competitive. The high end PVPers will never use this ring because it has way too many drawbacks. Mostly being able to have massive damage on one bar and massive defense on the other. One bar can never make up for that loss. Although if someone does figure out a way to close the gap on those players, SO WHAT, that is actually a good thing. It should go live as is and not be nerfed in a few months, but there will be massive PVP complaints that should be ignored.

Yeah exactly. The people saying it will be OP in PvP probably don't actually spend any time making builds and just sit on the forums complaining.

Oakensoul is totally useless in PvP. No one will get any use out of it, including ganks. I've throughly tested it and it's utter trash in a PvP environment.

I totally agree with your first point. But as someone with arthritis and can't swap bars 1/3 of the time. And die mostly because I am hitting wrong skills and not healing properly, etc. People like me, which I think is intended user, will do better in PVP. Funniest thing is that sometimes I get mixed up and hit the wrong skill, like streaking into a wall, then people think I am really bad and target me, but get surprised when I don't mess up the buttons and kill them. I am thinking I will get about 33% better with this ring in PVP. But everyone like me who in no longer easy target and starts killing others, will make those people to come on here complaining like crazy, THEY need to be ignored.

BTW I've already started testing and the best I might be able to do with it is super tanky in normal form with WW for damage, since you have to choose only one bar. But I can have the exact same build now, so the first complaint I can see is 'THERE ARE MORE TANKY WWs IN PVP NNNEEEERRRFFF IT', let's expect this coming.

katorga

Dracane wrote: »

Dogvahkiin wrote: »

@MovesLikeJaguar: Fair point with CrystalWeapons

Nevertheless: It will be easier to reach the respective top results with Oaken/one-bar in comparison to two bars. On dummy but especially in real content. And with this in mind, I think a 20% gap is not enough.
100k dps with only one-bar+Oaken is simply overloaded and will be easy to reach. Meanwhile 70-80k is basically enough for nearly all content. In my guild there are several players with less dps and we achieved TTT, vas+2 and VCR+3 together.

......Regardless, like you said, even if it was 100k dps, it would be way too good for this ease of use....

Isn't that ZOS's entire point, raising the floor for the majority of players?

It makes it easier for most players to do arenas, reduces the need for perfectly optimized groups in trials, and generally makes solo life a huge amount easier.

- Not saying it is good, bad or I am for, against, but ZOS has a consistent pattern.

Merforum

Merforum wrote: »

BroughBreaux wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

BroughBreaux wrote: »

No oakensoul change in 8.0.4

Would have liked to see the Major Courage changed to Minor Courage but all-in-all this ring isn't bad at all.

You won't be using it in the elite endgame but it's viable for all PvE in between for most classes, including vet trials where you're playing a little more casually rather than hardcore score pushing. Vet Dungeons are all completable easily and efficiently with Oakensoul, normal dungeons are soloable easily as well (barring mechanics that require multiple people), and you're able to fit enough utility on your single bar and still get enough damage for solo Vet Arenas as well.

Of all the possible outcomes for this Mythic, we didn't get the absolute best one, but we definitely got a good one. I'll be using this on a few characters for more casual gameplay where I can turn my brain off after work and still perform well.

Sucks it'll be totally useless in PvP outside of werewolves though, but that's more to do with not being able to perform well with only one bar, rather than this mythic not being good enough.

Agree, the people that say it will be OP in PVP are just worried that lots of people they can beat today with high APM will be more competitive. The high end PVPers will never use this ring because it has way too many drawbacks. Mostly being able to have massive damage on one bar and massive defense on the other. One bar can never make up for that loss. Although if someone does figure out a way to close the gap on those players, SO WHAT, that is actually a good thing. It should go live as is and not be nerfed in a few months, but there will be massive PVP complaints that should be ignored.

Yeah exactly. The people saying it will be OP in PvP probably don't actually spend any time making builds and just sit on the forums complaining.

Oakensoul is totally useless in PvP. No one will get any use out of it, including ganks. I've throughly tested it and it's utter trash in a PvP environment.

I totally agree with your first point. But as someone with arthritis and can't swap bars 1/3 of the time. And die mostly because I am hitting wrong skills and not healing properly, etc. People like me, which I think is intended user, will do better in PVP. Funniest thing is that sometimes I get mixed up and hit the wrong skill, like streaking into a wall, then people think I am really bad and target me, but get surprised when I don't mess up the buttons and kill them. I am thinking I will get about 33% better with this ring in PVP. But everyone like me who in no longer easy target and starts killing others, will make those people to come on here complaining like crazy, THEY need to be ignored.

BTW I've already started testing and the best I might be able to do with it is super tanky in normal form with WW for damage, since you have to choose only one bar. But I can have the exact same build now, so the first complaint I can see is 'THERE ARE MORE TANKY WWs IN PVP NNNEEEERRRFFF IT', let's expect this coming.

I'm just going to say this now so people don't complain later. The tanky WW build I have RIGHT NOW is totally doing great with WW in BGs. Secret I'm wearing 1 set that actually gets better the more people dog pile on you, surprises them every time...And I have eternal vigor. Key to not dying on WW is not running out of resources and 1 bar for me is WAY better.

I should have been playing WW for a long time but only did way back in PVE and not in PVP much. But it is fun. NOTE I am GOOD with it NOW, without OAKEN so don't come to forums later and say OAKEN did made WW good. For me it is more the one bar that makes it better. BTW I've tested with NB, Sorc, DK and all work fine, next will be Warden, temp, Nec.

merpins

Merforum wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

BroughBreaux wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

BroughBreaux wrote: »

No oakensoul change in 8.0.4

Would have liked to see the Major Courage changed to Minor Courage but all-in-all this ring isn't bad at all.

You won't be using it in the elite endgame but it's viable for all PvE in between for most classes, including vet trials where you're playing a little more casually rather than hardcore score pushing. Vet Dungeons are all completable easily and efficiently with Oakensoul, normal dungeons are soloable easily as well (barring mechanics that require multiple people), and you're able to fit enough utility on your single bar and still get enough damage for solo Vet Arenas as well.

Of all the possible outcomes for this Mythic, we didn't get the absolute best one, but we definitely got a good one. I'll be using this on a few characters for more casual gameplay where I can turn my brain off after work and still perform well.

Sucks it'll be totally useless in PvP outside of werewolves though, but that's more to do with not being able to perform well with only one bar, rather than this mythic not being good enough.

Agree, the people that say it will be OP in PVP are just worried that lots of people they can beat today with high APM will be more competitive. The high end PVPers will never use this ring because it has way too many drawbacks. Mostly being able to have massive damage on one bar and massive defense on the other. One bar can never make up for that loss. Although if someone does figure out a way to close the gap on those players, SO WHAT, that is actually a good thing. It should go live as is and not be nerfed in a few months, but there will be massive PVP complaints that should be ignored.

Yeah exactly. The people saying it will be OP in PvP probably don't actually spend any time making builds and just sit on the forums complaining.

Oakensoul is totally useless in PvP. No one will get any use out of it, including ganks. I've throughly tested it and it's utter trash in a PvP environment.

I totally agree with your first point. But as someone with arthritis and can't swap bars 1/3 of the time. And die mostly because I am hitting wrong skills and not healing properly, etc. People like me, which I think is intended user, will do better in PVP. Funniest thing is that sometimes I get mixed up and hit the wrong skill, like streaking into a wall, then people think I am really bad and target me, but get surprised when I don't mess up the buttons and kill them. I am thinking I will get about 33% better with this ring in PVP. But everyone like me who in no longer easy target and starts killing others, will make those people to come on here complaining like crazy, THEY need to be ignored.

BTW I've already started testing and the best I might be able to do with it is super tanky in normal form with WW for damage, since you have to choose only one bar. But I can have the exact same build now, so the first complaint I can see is 'THERE ARE MORE TANKY WWs IN PVP NNNEEEERRRFFF IT', let's expect this coming.

I'm just going to say this now so people don't complain later. The tanky WW build I have RIGHT NOW is totally doing great with WW in BGs. Secret I'm wearing 1 set that actually gets better the more people dog pile on you, surprises them every time...And I have eternal vigor. Key to not dying on WW is not running out of resources and 1 bar for me is WAY better.

I should have been playing WW for a long time but only did way back in PVE and not in PVP much. But it is fun. NOTE I am GOOD with it NOW, without OAKEN so don't come to forums later and say OAKEN did made WW good. For me it is more the one bar that makes it better. BTW I've tested with NB, Sorc, DK and all work fine, next will be Warden, temp, Nec.

I've tested warden and temp both work fine and as expected. Let me know how it works for necromancer!

Dracane

Out of all the things I say, a compliment made to BroughBeraux is what gets deleted. Al

katorga wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Dogvahkiin wrote: »

@MovesLikeJaguar: Fair point with CrystalWeapons

Nevertheless: It will be easier to reach the respective top results with Oaken/one-bar in comparison to two bars. On dummy but especially in real content. And with this in mind, I think a 20% gap is not enough.
100k dps with only one-bar+Oaken is simply overloaded and will be easy to reach. Meanwhile 70-80k is basically enough for nearly all content. In my guild there are several players with less dps and we achieved TTT, vas+2 and VCR+3 together.

......Regardless, like you said, even if it was 100k dps, it would be way too good for this ease of use....

Isn't that ZOS's entire point, raising the floor for the majority of players?

It makes it easier for most players to do arenas, reduces the need for perfectly optimized groups in trials, and generally makes solo life a huge amount easier.

Does the game really need to get even easier and more streamlined? I don't know. I think it's so straightforward and the ring is too strong. Everyone uses the same argument in it being not as strong as a traditional setup. Obviously, but it comes too close and I don't understand how everyone is just fine with this. Back then when the Forums were made of a different kind of people, this would have been judged much more harshly. But they're all gone and none of them plays anymore for obvious reasons.

remosito

Dracane wrote: »

Does the game really need to get even easier and more streamlined? I don't know. I think it's so straightforward and the ring is too strong. Everyone uses the same argument in it being not as strong as a traditional setup. Obviously, but it comes too close and I don't understand how everyone is just fine with this. Back then when the Forums were made of a different kind of people, this would have been judged much more harshly. But they're all gone and none of them plays anymore for obvious reasons.

The Ring won't touch 2 bar setups. So all is good!

Seems rather obvious to me how raising the floor is a good thing. .

More people being able to do more content is a win. Really don't understand how somebody would think it ain't...

As for forum feedback now and years ago. Good ZOS is plugged into what ppl want and appreciate now. And not years ago...

Dracane

remosito wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Does the game really need to get even easier and more streamlined? I don't know. I think it's so straightforward and the ring is too strong. Everyone uses the same argument in it being not as strong as a traditional setup. Obviously, but it comes too close and I don't understand how everyone is just fine with this. Back then when the Forums were made of a different kind of people, this would have been judged much more harshly. But they're all gone and none of them plays anymore for obvious reasons.

Seems rather obvious to me how raising the floor is a good thing. .

More people being able to do more content is a win. Really don't understand how somebody would think it ain't...

I think so too.

Tommy_The_Gun

Merforum wrote: »

I'm just going to say this now so people don't complain later. The tanky WW build I have RIGHT NOW is totally doing great with WW in BGs. Secret I'm wearing 1 set that actually gets better the more people dog pile on you, surprises them every time...And I have eternal vigor. Key to not dying on WW is not running out of resources and 1 bar for me is WAY better.

I should have been playing WW for a long time but only did way back in PVE and not in PVP much. But it is fun. NOTE I am GOOD with it NOW, without OAKEN so don't come to forums later and say OAKEN did made WW good. For me it is more the one bar that makes it better. BTW I've tested with NB, Sorc, DK and all work fine, next will be Warden, temp, Nec.

Agree on that. As a WW you need to know your limitations and for me that is the key. I also have a build that works for me on a WW, but still, Wolves feel very inferior to other setups. Currently it is playable, but that is all I can say about that. I mean I wouldn't call WWs to be "good". They are a niche for a reason.

Btw. My observations are kinda similar to yours. Oakensoul will make non WW one-bar builds really powerful, but it won't make WW itself powerful. If something, Oakensoul will work the other way arround. It will make WW kinda more pointless as you will have same buffs + some stronger ones outside of WW form, while still having all of the class / weapon / guild / world passives and being free to use any skill & ulti you want. So why would anyone use WW next patch ? Just for the looks & RP ? Even with other mythic, WW setups seems way more inferior to non-WW one bar builds with Oakensoul.

Toxic_Hemlock

I just though up another point for keeping it the way it is:

In order to get the ring leads you need to be of significant scrying level to dig up the many sections. That means you need to be able to done enough content to unlock them and you need to spend enough time scrying that you will, at least, know a bit of the world. My point is that basically you won't see this ring being used on sub 50 level characters anyways so why not make it good for those that NEED it?

To me that means the ring will only be dug up by those that want the leg up it provides enough, at higher cp like myself. To the uninitiated it will be very hard to get and in trying to get it they may decide it is not worth the work. To the upper echelon of the game it will be useless until a META build comes out that makes the character a godling, but I ignore anyways.

It seems to hit the mark 100% for what it is supposed to do for this player and ZOS seems to have listened to players such as myself here.

jecks33

The guy in the video is a super good player that hit 114k with the ring.
The average player with the same setup can reach 80k instead of 40k, he will never reach the same dps as Luca Cash.
A good player will always follow the best setup (not the oakensoul build for sure).

I don't see any problem

Merforum

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

I'm just going to say this now so people don't complain later. The tanky WW build I have RIGHT NOW is totally doing great with WW in BGs. Secret I'm wearing 1 set that actually gets better the more people dog pile on you, surprises them every time...And I have eternal vigor. Key to not dying on WW is not running out of resources and 1 bar for me is WAY better.

I should have been playing WW for a long time but only did way back in PVE and not in PVP much. But it is fun. NOTE I am GOOD with it NOW, without OAKEN so don't come to forums later and say OAKEN did made WW good. For me it is more the one bar that makes it better. BTW I've tested with NB, Sorc, DK and all work fine, next will be Warden, temp, Nec.

Agree on that. As a WW you need to know your limitations and for me that is the key. I also have a build that works for me on a WW, but still, Wolves feel very inferior to other setups. Currently it is playable, but that is all I can say about that. I mean I wouldn't call WWs to be "good". They are a niche for a reason.

Btw. My observations are kinda similar to yours. Oakensoul will make non WW one-bar builds really powerful, but it won't make WW itself powerful. If something, Oakensoul will work the other way arround. It will make WW kinda more pointless as you will have same buffs + some stronger ones outside of WW form, while still having all of the class / weapon / guild / world passives and being free to use any skill & ulti you want. So why would anyone use WW next patch ? Just for the looks & RP ? Even with other mythic, WW setups seems way more inferior to non-WW one bar builds with Oakensoul.

Yes, I use sithis with WW now and it is good. Don't know if OAKEN will be better actually. However outside of WW form OAKEN will almost certainly be better for me. BTW most matches I have low kills, low deaths and lots of assists. That is the job of a TANK, to distract the enemy and have them beat on you while your team picks them off. UNFORTUNATELY in solo BGs at least 1-2 of the people have no clue, 1-2 are DMers running around on their own trying to steal kills, and if you are super lucky 1-2 will actually know what they are doing. If you have mostly group 1 or 2 your will mostly lose, if you have group 3 you will mostly win.

BTW when I say know that they are doing I mean, in relic I harass the people on the relic, I don't want kill them just want to get them to chase me, then IF I have a smart team mate they just walk up and take relic. Or I guard relic and don't let them bait me away. In chaosball, clear a path for me, let me get the ball and protect me HELLO EASY, although scoring on chaos is TERRIBLE I held ball for 5 minute straight and total point at end was 250 WHAT. They need to massively increase points for killing ball carrier, HOLDING ball, defending ball carrier which is dangerous. Also it would be a lot more fun if the ball reset to the middle something like every 3 minutes.

In DM do what I said above, I'll jump on to a group of enemies fighting get them to focus on me so team mate can just kill them at will. Flags are my favorite, domination all we need it 2 flags and hold them, so I sit on one, 2 people sit on another and 1-2 float back and forth or even whole group just goes back and forth. Crazy is same idea just get to flag first, guard it as long as possible, then run to next, by end of timer, just get flag and don't worry about defending.

FangOfTheTwoMoons

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

silver1surfer69 wrote: »

thing is this is kinda designed for the not so experienced players - like dark convergence.

What happens is that the expereinced endgame players (pvp) make a meta with it.

we will have so many 1 bar oakensoul builds in pvp and they will smash everything.

This will kill balance and diversity untill the nerf comes when the chapter has sold enough.

Next months will be very 1 sided in (smallscale) pvp.

And I will never see those people, but my gameplay will be much more enjoyable.

Like I said in an earlier post, if the competitive crowd find a way to use it to their benefit, hence being completive, IDK. It will make me want to explore Craglorn finally and maybe do an arena that I pay for with ESO+.

I for one am very glad there is not any big changes in 8.0.4. I have a few alts that will use it now so long as none of the leads require a flawless trial run!

edit: old fingers

Weather or not this has any impact in PVP this is such a horrible take. Not to mention how hypocritical it is.

The same argument can be made for anything in the game, but if it effects you, you'd have no problem protesting against it.

merpins

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

I just though up another point for keeping it the way it is:

In order to get the ring leads you need to be of significant scrying level to dig up the many sections. That means you need to be able to done enough content to unlock them and you need to spend enough time scrying that you will, at least, know a bit of the world. My point is that basically you won't see this ring being used on sub 50 level characters anyways so why not make it good for those that NEED it?

To me that means the ring will only be dug up by those that want the leg up it provides enough, at higher cp like myself. To the uninitiated it will be very hard to get and in trying to get it they may decide it is not worth the work. To the upper echelon of the game it will be useless until a META build comes out that makes the character a godling, but I ignore anyways.

It seems to hit the mark 100% for what it is supposed to do for this player and ZOS seems to have listened to players such as myself here.

As well as dug up by completionists and people that like to collect all the mythic items. But that's that. I agree.

Urzigurumash

BroughBreaux wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

BroughBreaux wrote: »

No oakensoul change in 8.0.4

Would have liked to see the Major Courage changed to Minor Courage but all-in-all this ring isn't bad at all.

You won't be using it in the elite endgame but it's viable for all PvE in between for most classes, including vet trials where you're playing a little more casually rather than hardcore score pushing. Vet Dungeons are all completable easily and efficiently with Oakensoul, normal dungeons are soloable easily as well (barring mechanics that require multiple people), and you're able to fit enough utility on your single bar and still get enough damage for solo Vet Arenas as well.

Of all the possible outcomes for this Mythic, we didn't get the absolute best one, but we definitely got a good one. I'll be using this on a few characters for more casual gameplay where I can turn my brain off after work and still perform well.

Sucks it'll be totally useless in PvP outside of werewolves though, but that's more to do with not being able to perform well with only one bar, rather than this mythic not being good enough.

Agree, the people that say it will be OP in PVP are just worried that lots of people they can beat today with high APM will be more competitive. The high end PVPers will never use this ring because it has way too many drawbacks. Mostly being able to have massive damage on one bar and massive defense on the other. One bar can never make up for that loss. Although if someone does figure out a way to close the gap on those players, SO WHAT, that is actually a good thing. It should go live as is and not be nerfed in a few months, but there will be massive PVP complaints that should be ignored.

Yeah exactly. The people saying it will be OP in PvP probably don't actually spend any time making builds and just sit on the forums complaining.

Oakensoul is totally useless in PvP. No one will get any use out of it, including ganks. I've throughly tested it and it's utter trash in a PvP environment.

Please explain to us your testing, 100% uptime on Major Force and Heroism is something perhaps nobody has ever achieved before in PvP, so totally useless seems like a bit of a stretch.

Toxic_Hemlock

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

silver1surfer69 wrote: »

thing is this is kinda designed for the not so experienced players - like dark convergence.

What happens is that the expereinced endgame players (pvp) make a meta with it.

we will have so many 1 bar oakensoul builds in pvp and they will smash everything.

This will kill balance and diversity untill the nerf comes when the chapter has sold enough.

Next months will be very 1 sided in (smallscale) pvp.

And I will never see those people, but my gameplay will be much more enjoyable.

Like I said in an earlier post, if the competitive crowd find a way to use it to their benefit, hence being completive, IDK. It will make me want to explore Craglorn finally and maybe do an arena that I pay for with ESO+.

I for one am very glad there is not any big changes in 8.0.4. I have a few alts that will use it now so long as none of the leads require a flawless trial run!

edit: old fingers

Weather or not this has any impact in PVP this is such a horrible take. Not to mention how hypocritical it is.

The same argument can be made for anything in the game, but if it effects you, you'd have no problem protesting against it.

Horrible/hypocritical take or not, ESO is not really a good example of a good competitive game IMO as it does not place it's players on common ground and instead has them chasing the META builds. If your players rely on being able to find the next META to be competitive it relies less on player skill and more on what gear you are using with what patch. A good example is to place yourself equipped with only basic white gear vs a good player in the current META one round and reverse it the next; the clear winner is the one with the META gear or there would be no META. A better example of a good common PvP game is GW2 (used to be, now not as sure) as once you are at high level the gear is exactly the same only the cosmetics change thus common ground and skill determines the winner.

Most PvE suffers little from this as it doesn't being leaderboards or any ranking system. Trials being the exception here, but that is only to show how you rank up vs other for time taken mostly.

Don't get me wrong ESO is a terrific game, but any game that has current builds will always make the players chase the "golden egg", this is great for business, but very time consuming and expensive for casual players such as myself.

Oh and another edit to add:

Face it we are all selfish individuals anyways mostly only out for what effects us especioally in our free time. If this was not the case then nobody would care about money and instead spend their live helping others. If all you do in a game is PvP, do you care what the PvE crowd does? Answer that before calling me a hypocrite next time.

Edit: clarity

chessalavakia_ESO

jecks33 wrote: »

The guy in the video is a super good player that hit 114k with the ring.
The average player with the same setup can reach 80k instead of 40k, he will never reach the same dps as Luca Cash.
A good player will always follow the best setup (not the oakensoul build for sure).

I don't see any problem

The problem in your scenario where the item isn't good at a high level and is very good from above average to below average is that the players in that range that don't use the item get left behind.

Mr_Stach

So players can work on their skills and get better and get to the point where they don't need the Crutch.

It'll make them a bit better. If they don't work on it, they're not gonna all of the sudden be amazing when they slap on the ring.

Bad player will still be bad.

FangOfTheTwoMoons

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

silver1surfer69 wrote: »

thing is this is kinda designed for the not so experienced players - like dark convergence.

What happens is that the expereinced endgame players (pvp) make a meta with it.

we will have so many 1 bar oakensoul builds in pvp and they will smash everything.

This will kill balance and diversity untill the nerf comes when the chapter has sold enough.

Next months will be very 1 sided in (smallscale) pvp.

And I will never see those people, but my gameplay will be much more enjoyable.

Like I said in an earlier post, if the competitive crowd find a way to use it to their benefit, hence being completive, IDK. It will make me want to explore Craglorn finally and maybe do an arena that I pay for with ESO+.

I for one am very glad there is not any big changes in 8.0.4. I have a few alts that will use it now so long as none of the leads require a flawless trial run!

edit: old fingers

Weather or not this has any impact in PVP this is such a horrible take. Not to mention how hypocritical it is.

The same argument can be made for anything in the game, but if it effects you, you'd have no problem protesting against it.

Horrible/hypocritical take or not, ESO is not really a good example of a good competitive game IMO as it does not place it's players on common ground and instead has them chasing the META builds. If your players rely on being able to find the next META to be competitive it relies less on player skill and more on what gear you are using with what patch. A good example is to place yourself equipped with only basic white gear vs a good player in the current META one round and reverse it the next; the clear winner is the one with the META gear or there would be no META. A better example of a good common PvP game is GW2 (used to be, now not as sure) as once you are at high level the gear is exactly the same only the cosmetics change thus common ground and skill determines the winner.

Most PvE suffers little from this as it doesn't being leaderboards or any ranking system. Trials being the exception here, but that is only to show how you rank up vs other for time taken mostly.

Don't get me wrong ESO is a terrific game, but any game that has current builds will always make the players chase the "golden egg", this is great for business, but very time consuming and expensive for casual players such as myself.

Oh and another edit to add:

Face it we are all selfish individuals anyways mostly only out for what effects us especioally in our free time. If this was not the case then nobody would care about money and instead spend their live helping others. If all you do in a game is PvP, do you care what the PvE crowd does? Answer that before calling me a hypocrite next time.

Edit: clarity

No matter what game it is, there will always be a meta. It's an absolute fact that you cannot deny.

Player skill always trumps gear so I don't know where you got this idea that the gear is carrying people. Maybe in PVP some gear sets can push people slightly over their skill ceiling, but it's not magically making people better without investment into actually learning how to press their buttons and understanding the fundamentals of how the game works. If you think someone with less experience can jump into PVP and win against someone with more experience and skill, simply off of gear, you're sorely mistaken. The gear wouldn't even make a mediocre PVPer come close to a top PVPer.

In PVE your argument falls even more flat. Slap the most meta gear on some random PUGs in Cragalorn and they still wouldn't be able to pass the Twins in vMOL. Not mention there are people who have beaten VMA completely naked, using their fists, light attacking only, and in first person. While others struggle to do it still, even in meta gear.

It's funny you mention GW2. I never played their open world, but their battlegrounds are fun. You're making it sound like there isn't a meta in GW2 PVP and that couldn't be more wrong. The meta in GW2 is very real. It's simply classed based instead of class+gear. Some classes vastly out perform others.

There is absolutely no way to eliminate a meta in any game without standardizing everything and at that point it is no longer fun.

Your last paragraph is alarming. You're really trying to justify being selfish and inconsiderate. I do not play PVE as much anymore and I still care about the opinions of PVE players. If something broken was introduced to PVE of course I'd agree it would have to get nerfed, even if it ruined it in PVP. Only a self-centered person would deny it. I actually care about the feelings of others and I also care about the overall health of the game.

Do not take this in offense, but this sounds like this boils down to; your skills might not be on par with with high-end players, so you're making excuses about meta gear to justify it.

Toxic_Hemlock

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

silver1surfer69 wrote: »

thing is this is kinda designed for the not so experienced players - like dark convergence.

What happens is that the expereinced endgame players (pvp) make a meta with it.

we will have so many 1 bar oakensoul builds in pvp and they will smash everything.

This will kill balance and diversity untill the nerf comes when the chapter has sold enough.

Next months will be very 1 sided in (smallscale) pvp.

And I will never see those people, but my gameplay will be much more enjoyable.

Like I said in an earlier post, if the competitive crowd find a way to use it to their benefit, hence being completive, IDK. It will make me want to explore Craglorn finally and maybe do an arena that I pay for with ESO+.

I for one am very glad there is not any big changes in 8.0.4. I have a few alts that will use it now so long as none of the leads require a flawless trial run!

edit: old fingers

Weather or not this has any impact in PVP this is such a horrible take. Not to mention how hypocritical it is.

The same argument can be made for anything in the game, but if it effects you, you'd have no problem protesting against it.

Horrible/hypocritical take or not, ESO is not really a good example of a good competitive game IMO as it does not place it's players on common ground and instead has them chasing the META builds. If your players rely on being able to find the next META to be competitive it relies less on player skill and more on what gear you are using with what patch. A good example is to place yourself equipped with only basic white gear vs a good player in the current META one round and reverse it the next; the clear winner is the one with the META gear or there would be no META. A better example of a good common PvP game is GW2 (used to be, now not as sure) as once you are at high level the gear is exactly the same only the cosmetics change thus common ground and skill determines the winner.

Most PvE suffers little from this as it doesn't being leaderboards or any ranking system. Trials being the exception here, but that is only to show how you rank up vs other for time taken mostly.

Don't get me wrong ESO is a terrific game, but any game that has current builds will always make the players chase the "golden egg", this is great for business, but very time consuming and expensive for casual players such as myself.

Oh and another edit to add:

Face it we are all selfish individuals anyways mostly only out for what effects us especioally in our free time. If this was not the case then nobody would care about money and instead spend their live helping others. If all you do in a game is PvP, do you care what the PvE crowd does? Answer that before calling me a hypocrite next time.

Edit: clarity

No matter what game it is, there will always be a meta. It's an absolute fact that you cannot deny.

Player skill always trumps gear so I don't know where you got this idea that the gear is carrying people. Maybe in PVP some gear sets can push people slightly over their skill ceiling, but it's not magically making people better without investment into actually learning how to press their buttons and understanding the fundamentals of how the game works. If you think someone with less experience can jump into PVP and win against someone with more experience and skill, simply off of gear, you're sorely mistaken. The gear wouldn't even make a mediocre PVPer come close to a top PVPer.

In PVE your argument falls even more flat. Slap the most meta gear on some random PUGs in Cragalorn and they still wouldn't be able to pass the Twins in vMOL. Not mention there are people who have beaten VMA completely naked, using their fists, light attacking only, and in first person. While others struggle to do it still, even in meta gear.

It's funny you mention GW2. I never played their open world, but their battlegrounds are fun. You're making it sound like there isn't a meta in GW2 PVP and that couldn't be more wrong. The meta in GW2 is very real. It's simply classed based instead of class+gear. Some classes vastly out perform others.

There is absolutely no way to eliminate a meta in any game without standardizing everything and at that point it is no longer fun.

Your last paragraph is alarming. You're really trying to justify being selfish and inconsiderate. I do not play PVE as much anymore and I still care about the opinions of PVE players. If something broken was introduced to PVE of course I'd agree it would have to get nerfed, even if it ruined it in PVP. Only a self-centered person would deny it. I actually care about the feelings of others and I also care about the overall health of the game.

Do not take this in offense, but this sounds like this boils down to; your skills might not be on par with with high-end players, so you're making excuses about meta gear to justify it.

Agree to disagree, have a nice day.

Iron_Warrior

Sooo they didn't nerf it at the end...

Oakensoul chads, we eating good!!

merpins

Iron_Warrior wrote: »

Sooo they didn't nerf it at the end...

Oakensoul chads, we eating good!!

There's still a few weeks for them to change it, and it could always be nerfed down the line if it's found to be something that people abuse. I think it's fine as is as well, and I don't think it will be an item that people really can abuse, not really anyway. So I'm hopeful it goes live as-is.

fred4

x

Urzigurumash wrote: »

BroughBreaux wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

BroughBreaux wrote: »

No oakensoul change in 8.0.4

Would have liked to see the Major Courage changed to Minor Courage but all-in-all this ring isn't bad at all.

You won't be using it in the elite endgame but it's viable for all PvE in between for most classes, including vet trials where you're playing a little more casually rather than hardcore score pushing. Vet Dungeons are all completable easily and efficiently with Oakensoul, normal dungeons are soloable easily as well (barring mechanics that require multiple people), and you're able to fit enough utility on your single bar and still get enough damage for solo Vet Arenas as well.

Of all the possible outcomes for this Mythic, we didn't get the absolute best one, but we definitely got a good one. I'll be using this on a few characters for more casual gameplay where I can turn my brain off after work and still perform well.

Sucks it'll be totally useless in PvP outside of werewolves though, but that's more to do with not being able to perform well with only one bar, rather than this mythic not being good enough.

Agree, the people that say it will be OP in PVP are just worried that lots of people they can beat today with high APM will be more competitive. The high end PVPers will never use this ring because it has way too many drawbacks. Mostly being able to have massive damage on one bar and massive defense on the other. One bar can never make up for that loss. Although if someone does figure out a way to close the gap on those players, SO WHAT, that is actually a good thing. It should go live as is and not be nerfed in a few months, but there will be massive PVP complaints that should be ignored.

Yeah exactly. The people saying it will be OP in PvP probably don't actually spend any time making builds and just sit on the forums complaining.

Oakensoul is totally useless in PvP. No one will get any use out of it, including ganks. I've throughly tested it and it's utter trash in a PvP environment.

Please explain to us your testing, 100% uptime on Major Force and Heroism is something perhaps nobody has ever achieved before in PvP, so totally useless seems like a bit of a stretch.

That would be my question as well.

Major Courage, Force, Berserk and Brutality / Sorcery, all active on your first hit from cloak, which is a guaranteed crit. Let's make that Incap. Please don't say you can already reach the crit cap. You can, but getting Major Force from Oakensoul leaves you free to invest elsewhere. In terms of defense, I find that a lot of that simply comes from 1H+S. That skill line actually has a passive for a few % weapon / spell damage increase. Not as good as 2H/DW, but better than a resto staff. If you want a balanced build, that may be the way to go.

I don't know what this means. I'm only going to test on live. I'd sure be curious exactly what you've tested and with whom. Can you even test ganks on the PTS? A dueller who is expecting you will typically be unkillable, if they're running a tanky open world spec. I would not expect Oakensoul to change that.