Oakensoul Change Take 2, Electric Boogaloo

Lalothen

Dogvahkiin wrote: »

Success should be earned. That's the point behind competitive gameplay.
Slotting a single item to achieve these goals is basically cheating.

Far from everyone playing ESO is here to be competitive; most just want to enjoy themselves whilst playing. That's what videogames are largely made for, regardless of the fact that some treat playing them like a profession.

If you want to engage in competitive play, then feel free to continue doing so with the other competitive players and groups out there doing things like speed runs, etc. That's where the challenge of competitive play lies, not trying to gatekeep more casual players from managing to merely complete some of the harder content. If you're measuring the merit of your success in veteran content against the fact that more casual players can't complete it at all (let alone vet achievements like nodeath, speedrun, HM, etc), that's not much of a competitive metric anyway, is it.

jaws343

Lalothen wrote: »

Dogvahkiin wrote: »

Success should be earned. That's the point behind competitive gameplay.
Slotting a single item to achieve these goals is basically cheating.

Far from everyone playing ESO is here to be competitive; most just want to enjoy themselves whilst playing. That's what videogames are largely made for, regardless of the fact that some treat playing them like a profession.

If you want to engage in competitive play, then feel free to continue doing so with the other competitive players and groups out there doing things like speed runs, etc. That's where the challenge of competitive play lies, not trying to gatekeep more casual players from managing to merely complete some of the harder content. If you're measuring the merit of your success in veteran content against the fact that more casual players can't complete it at all (let alone vet achievements like nodeath, speedrun, HM, etc), that's not much of a competitive metric anyway, is it.

But.. that's the whole point of harder content, and the point of normal and more mid-range difficulties of content. To literally gatekeep people who are not capable of completing it. The whole point of the harder content is the reward involved with completing it. It's why games have insanity type modes and associated achievements that go along with that. It's why this game has vet and vet hardmode achievements for dungeons. The difficulty is meant to be a challenge, that even some are not able to do. Not something that should be trivialized with a gear piece for someone who isn't even ready for the content to breeze past.

I say this as someone who has no intention of grinding out the trifectas for vet DLC dungeons because I know that my skill set is likely better served in other aspects of the game. And that is fine. I do it on vet, grind out some monster sets, and then move back to normal or even move on from the dungeon. I shouldn't be able to seamlessly do vet hardmode content if I am not willing to put in the effort to get better at the content, and a gear piece certainly shouldn't suddenly make that content accessible without any input from my end.

Dogvahkiin

bbpotts2ub17_ESO wrote: »

Hitting buttons faster isn't some sort of achievement, It is a dexterity test, if content has to be locked away from people because you can hit buttons more efficiently than the next player than that does not seem earning of an achievement.

Of course it is! In fact, the management of the controls (keyboard, mouse, controller, etc.) are the only way to interact with a virtual game at all. Hitting buttons more efficiently is, or can be, a big part to be "good" in a combat heavy game.

bbpotts2ub17_ESO wrote: »

I like the changes, Something ive learned during the vet trials I have done, is that people struggle with seeing the mechanics in trials, and if simplifying the DPS rotation even through means like this mythic. Hopefully that gets people to start paying attention to the mechanics instead of having the worry so much about keeping up this complex two bar rotation simply because that is expected. I enjoy the fact that this raises the midfloor a bit and can only this encourages more players who are not comfortable with 2 bar builds and their rotations to try veteran content, If more people try veteran content because of it GOOD why shouldn't they get the chance to feel comfortable with the veteran level content. Veteran Content should be more of a mechanics check than a silly dps check anyway.

You're right, it would help a lot of players. But I think it's a incremental part of the more difficult content to accomplish both at the same time - mechanics and a more complex rotation.

Lalothen

jaws343 wrote: »

But.. that's the whole point of harder content, and the point of normal and more mid-range difficulties of content. To literally gatekeep people who are not capable of completing it. The whole point of the harder content is the reward involved with completing it. It's why games have insanity type modes and associated achievements that go along with that. It's why this game has vet and vet hardmode achievements for dungeons. The difficulty is meant to be a challenge, that even some are not able to do. Not something that should be trivialized with a gear piece for someone who isn't even ready for the content to breeze past.

Vet and hardmode achievements are something I referenced in my post, and Oakensoul isn't going to suddenly allow casual players to breeze through those - especially not in trial scenarios. But it will give them more of a fighting shot at simply completing a vet mode dungeon or trial without any of the additional challenges, and maybe the confidence to actually take that shot in the first place. That's the point of it; there are plenty of players out there who've never used a monster set or even a normal trial 5-piece because they find veteran dungeons and normal trials a daunting, stressful prospect. That's who the ring is aimed at.

I shouldn't be able to seamlessly do vet hardmode content if I am not willing to put in the effort to get better at the content, and a gear piece certainly shouldn't suddenly make that content accessible without any input from my end.

Folk will still have to deal with the wider array of more punishing mechanics associated with vet content; it's still going to require effort to understand and deal with them. The ring doesn't stop folk standing in stupid, or flapping around unable to figure out what they need to do to stop a boss from one-shotting people, or whatever.

Also, being a trifecta runner I've got quite a bit of experience with the vet achievement aspect of gameplay, and I don't see Oakensoul making a noticeable difference in the ability of more casual players to complete those hardmodes/achievements - particularly not in more challenging DLC dungeons, or vet trials in general. I don't envision suddenly seeing a bunch of casual players running around with the titles, skins and other paraphernalia associated with completing challenger achievements, for example.

buttaface

Astounding to me there are still players of ESO who somehow believe that ESO was ever or should ever be some kind of ESport with sports-like achievements attached. It is not, has never been. ESO is a casual multiplayer MMO with a broad level of content types based on a casual solo RPG IP, that tries to add in some competitive elements as just one of several possible playstyles and choices. That's all it is, has ever been, will ever be.

Folks who are looking for meaningful competition in any kind of video game need to start by looking for games that require 1. true, not sticky/tab target aim and 2. significant parkour, and games in which "gear" is not an issue or progression, and mostly static among players. Stop trying to morph console adventure/fantasy multiplayer games, where side game puzzles erroneously labeled "mechanics" are a substitute for any meaningful difficulty into some true life or sports achievement.

To the topic, latest Oakensoul changes are good and well-considered, it will be a good addition to this casual game.

Faylestar

Dogvahkiin wrote: »

It shouldn't be possible to achieve 100k with this item. That's basically "raising the floor to the ceiling".

So Rele + nirn + Ring is 100k.

Meanwhile Rele + Nirn + kilt is what, 125-130k? (a bit less on magden)

100k seems pretty much on the lower end of acceptable in comparison.

divnyi

@buttaface literally everything in the game has "normal" mode for casual players. You don't need any meta builds for normal content. Idk what's your problem with high-end PvE.

Heartrage

I think we should have a baby wheel set for people with disabilities and for casual players but this feels like they're getting a motorcycle. And yes, the motorcycle is capped so good cyclists still win the race but the point of all this race is to learn to ride a bike and to get good at it. I fear people will just get on the motorcycle rather than sweat on the bike and, by the end, will complain about cyclists being in their motorcycle race and their motorcycle being capped.

What I'm trying to say is that i really hate motorcyclists, ZOS why are you adding them to the game? This is a fantasy mmorpg, not a racing game.

Psiion

Greetings all,

Once again, after removing some posts and content, this is a reminder that Baiting and personal attacks are NEVER acceptable on the ESO Forums. There are differing opinions and sides to every discussion, and the ESO Forums are intended to be a place for civil and constructive conversation. Moving forward, please keep the discussion within the Forums Community Rules.

Merforum

Here we go....

James-Wayne

Jman100582 wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

Jman100582 wrote: »

Imo power creep comes primarily from sets and from certain classes and group comps. Cp has been nerfed into the floor and that was really the only other way to get power for your character. Sets have been becoming increasingly stronger and stronger with every dlc (I wonder why) and certain classes are way overturned and that’s what people choose to run. Hard caps only address the build part. They don’t do anything for class/group comp balance. Hard caps are essentially sledgehammer nerfs and I’m pretty sure everybody on eso is sick and tired of those. And by putting hard caps on people you will only encourage people to run certain builds, killing diversity. It is lazy and not thought out, as power creep comes from multiple interactions of sets and players in of itself. You can’t address one part of that with a blanket nerf and expect things to balance out

[snip] People should have to work hard to accomplish hard content that is meant to be COMPETITIVE. If there wasn’t leaderboards and stuff like that I really would not care, I really wouldn’t. But the hi-end, vet endgame content was meant to be competitive. What business do people that just want to casually play on their weekends have in competitive content? Most really don’t care. I for one don’t, I’m very much a casual pver and have never pulled over 70k dps. I don’t expect to be competitive on my one bar stamplar even though I’ve played eso for 5 years at this point. I only need to go into vet dungeons once every couple of months for gear anyways. If I ran a proper pve rele/kilt/advancing build would I do more? Yeah. But I don’t, so I don’t expect or even think I deserve to be in the hi-end or even competitive

As for your example: adding base weapon spell dmg is what has made dks and plars so oppressive in pvp. It has had negative effects. And only now are both of these classes getting touched up on after who knows how long. Blanket nerfs and buffs have very rarely had their intended effect

[Removed Response to Removed content]

Powercreep is HIGH end DPS that keeps going up and up. And allows people to blow through the toughest content in the game bypassing most of the mechanics or being unkillable killing machines in PVP. Procs sets are only a tiny part of that overall and I would say 2 things that contribute most was removing the % proc chance from most proc sets and SCALING which is OUT OF CONTROL. But the thing that makes scaling insane is that there is NO CAP ON the stat you scale off of, mainly w/s DMG. Which means in 2 seconds ZOS can FIX every one of those proc sets with a w/s dmg CAP, see how that works. Plus the fact that healing of all things scales off w/s dmg which is just dumb.

BTW I agree with you that blanket solutions are terrible, but CAPS are not a blanket nerf they are a laser targeted nerf at ONLY the outlier stats. If you want to see a BLANKET nerf it is called battle spirit where instead of using CAPS to control things they use BLANKET % decreases. Think about it, if you want to tone down the OP damage you don't take half the damage away from some who hits like a wet noodle, like a tank or healer, you ONLY REDUCE THE TOP END. THAT is called balance and targeted solution, NOT blanket.

Like I said ZOS could fix the game for years to come by simple putting LA on same GCD, CAP a few outlier stats crit chance, w/s dmg being the most abused. That would reduce powercreep dramatically, and have little to no effect on 90% of players, while allowing for so much more diversity. BTW in PVE I don't think anyone cares if some classes are better or worse at specific things that is the fun part. In PVP there are some insane outlier abilities like inviso/streak that should be toned down or removed but class differences aren't really contributing to powercreep like the other stuff mentioned.

[snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

LA on gcd will never happen. And it really shouldn’t, because otherwise it’ll require a player to press a button EXACTLY every one second to deal maximum dps. Which is inhuman to say the least. Light attack dmg should be adjusted yeah, it’s not even an ability but deals so much damage on logs. But to put in gcd will dramatically slow the pace of the game as well, and it would make it harder to proc stuff like enchants and sets

[Removed response to removed content]

I've been saying for years, want to lower ceiling? Then lower damage of light attack, its not a skill, it should not be doing as much damage as it is period. This will greatly help high ping locations with meeting damage numbers required for content.

Runefang

James-Wayne wrote: »

Jman100582 wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

Jman100582 wrote: »

Imo power creep comes primarily from sets and from certain classes and group comps. Cp has been nerfed into the floor and that was really the only other way to get power for your character. Sets have been becoming increasingly stronger and stronger with every dlc (I wonder why) and certain classes are way overturned and that’s what people choose to run. Hard caps only address the build part. They don’t do anything for class/group comp balance. Hard caps are essentially sledgehammer nerfs and I’m pretty sure everybody on eso is sick and tired of those. And by putting hard caps on people you will only encourage people to run certain builds, killing diversity. It is lazy and not thought out, as power creep comes from multiple interactions of sets and players in of itself. You can’t address one part of that with a blanket nerf and expect things to balance out

[snip] People should have to work hard to accomplish hard content that is meant to be COMPETITIVE. If there wasn’t leaderboards and stuff like that I really would not care, I really wouldn’t. But the hi-end, vet endgame content was meant to be competitive. What business do people that just want to casually play on their weekends have in competitive content? Most really don’t care. I for one don’t, I’m very much a casual pver and have never pulled over 70k dps. I don’t expect to be competitive on my one bar stamplar even though I’ve played eso for 5 years at this point. I only need to go into vet dungeons once every couple of months for gear anyways. If I ran a proper pve rele/kilt/advancing build would I do more? Yeah. But I don’t, so I don’t expect or even think I deserve to be in the hi-end or even competitive

As for your example: adding base weapon spell dmg is what has made dks and plars so oppressive in pvp. It has had negative effects. And only now are both of these classes getting touched up on after who knows how long. Blanket nerfs and buffs have very rarely had their intended effect

[Removed Response to Removed content]

Powercreep is HIGH end DPS that keeps going up and up. And allows people to blow through the toughest content in the game bypassing most of the mechanics or being unkillable killing machines in PVP. Procs sets are only a tiny part of that overall and I would say 2 things that contribute most was removing the % proc chance from most proc sets and SCALING which is OUT OF CONTROL. But the thing that makes scaling insane is that there is NO CAP ON the stat you scale off of, mainly w/s DMG. Which means in 2 seconds ZOS can FIX every one of those proc sets with a w/s dmg CAP, see how that works. Plus the fact that healing of all things scales off w/s dmg which is just dumb.

BTW I agree with you that blanket solutions are terrible, but CAPS are not a blanket nerf they are a laser targeted nerf at ONLY the outlier stats. If you want to see a BLANKET nerf it is called battle spirit where instead of using CAPS to control things they use BLANKET % decreases. Think about it, if you want to tone down the OP damage you don't take half the damage away from some who hits like a wet noodle, like a tank or healer, you ONLY REDUCE THE TOP END. THAT is called balance and targeted solution, NOT blanket.

Like I said ZOS could fix the game for years to come by simple putting LA on same GCD, CAP a few outlier stats crit chance, w/s dmg being the most abused. That would reduce powercreep dramatically, and have little to no effect on 90% of players, while allowing for so much more diversity. BTW in PVE I don't think anyone cares if some classes are better or worse at specific things that is the fun part. In PVP there are some insane outlier abilities like inviso/streak that should be toned down or removed but class differences aren't really contributing to powercreep like the other stuff mentioned.

[snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

LA on gcd will never happen. And it really shouldn’t, because otherwise it’ll require a player to press a button EXACTLY every one second to deal maximum dps. Which is inhuman to say the least. Light attack dmg should be adjusted yeah, it’s not even an ability but deals so much damage on logs. But to put in gcd will dramatically slow the pace of the game as well, and it would make it harder to proc stuff like enchants and sets

[Removed response to removed content]

I've been saying for years, want to lower ceiling? Then lower damage of light attack, its not a skill, it should not be doing as much damage as it is period. This will greatly help high ping locations with meeting damage numbers required for content.

50% of your APM for 12-13% of your damage isn't a big return on your effort honestly. Stop trying to lower the ceiling by halving our APM. We'll be bored outta our minds.

Stx

Am I missing something here? This version is still INSANELY overpowered for pvp and solo pve, it will be mandatory to run, not to mention werewolf.

Major courage, force, protection, heroism, berserk from one item... just think about that. Not to mention the other buffs which are easier to get.

This item is insane and hilarious.

merpins

Stx wrote: »

Am I missing something here? This version is still INSANELY overpowered for pvp and solo pve, it will be mandatory to run, not to mention werewolf.

Major courage, force, protection, heroism, berserk from one item... just think about that. Not to mention the other buffs which are easier to get.

This item is insane and hilarious.

For solo, it hurts no one. People already faceroll solo content anyway, and for solo dungeons 90% of the time, Pale Order is either necessary or better.
For Pvp, it's the same as with PVE. You're giving up your backbar, which includes self heals and other utility options that this ring does not cover. Either you are severely suboptimal in damage because you're missing all the bonuses your back bar gives you, or you're a glass canon that has no healing. It might find a home in some gank builds, but aside from that, I don't see it being used by anyone other than people that actually need it and the odd werewolf every once-in-a-while (there are better mythics and monster helms for ww's in this case).

For most solo arenas, you run into the same problem as PVP. Lack of self heals or utility. You might be able to make a pretty optimal one-bar setup that does 80% of the damage that a 2-bar dps setup will do.... But then you're still 20% behind. It's by no means optimal for this situation either.

Merforum

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

Am I missing something here? This version is still INSANELY overpowered for pvp and solo pve, it will be mandatory to run, not to mention werewolf.

Major courage, force, protection, heroism, berserk from one item... just think about that. Not to mention the other buffs which are easier to get.

This item is insane and hilarious.

For solo, it hurts no one. People already faceroll solo content anyway, and for solo dungeons 90% of the time, Pale Order is either necessary or better.
For Pvp, it's the same as with PVE. You're giving up your backbar, which includes self heals and other utility options that this ring does not cover. Either you are severely suboptimal in damage because you're missing all the bonuses your back bar gives you, or you're a glass canon that has no healing. It might find a home in some gank builds, but aside from that, I don't see it being used by anyone other than people that actually need it and the odd werewolf every once-in-a-while (there are better mythics and monster helms for ww's in this case).

For most solo arenas, you run into the same problem as PVP. Lack of self heals or utility. You might be able to make a pretty optimal one-bar setup that does 80% of the damage that a 2-bar dps setup will do.... But then you're still 20% behind. It's by no means optimal for this situation either.

Also absolutely no slot for NB detection, will have to make a bunch of pots. But for people who struggle with high apm and bar swapping this is going to be a huge boost (which is exactly the intention I think) and that is what high apm PVPers are afraid of.

If we try to maximize our 5 slots for PVP what do you have, 1 burst heal NEED, 1 spammable NEED, 1 execute NEED, , 1 HOT maybe, then only 1 more bar for gap closer/AOE/DOT/buffs/skill that procs a passive/detection/streak/inviso/etc Going to only be used by people who really need it.

divnyi

Merforum wrote: »

1 execute NEED

You don't. Most of my chars do just fine without one.

What you need to assemble is: Major Expedition source, Burst heal, HoT(s), Spammable, Burst damage, +your class staples.

Decision on what to drop and what to have is really tough one. But it's possible. I already have that solved for 4/6 classes.

I guess if something is to be nerfed for PvP, it's Major Heroism. I believe most of players in PvP will try to abuse it specifically.

Toxic_Hemlock

I already only solo anyways, and almost never switch bars. And this ring might just give the leg up I need to do a few more dungeons, or even an arena. If it makes those that do PvP or do 12 man trials OP, so what I never do those, but I would like to start doing some on the content I pay for.

Leave it alone, you already killed the extra stats, please don't nerf it more.

Merforum

divnyi wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

1 execute NEED

You don't. Most of my chars do just fine without one.

What you need to assemble is: Major Expedition source, Burst heal, HoT(s), Spammable, Burst damage, +your class staples.

Decision on what to drop and what to have is really tough one. But it's possible. I already have that solved for 4/6 classes.

I guess if something is to be nerfed for PvP, it's Major Heroism. I believe most of players in PvP will try to abuse it specifically.

Seems like you are disagreeing just to be disagreeable. Too much of that on here. But 'burst damage'/execute is close enough. Some spammables just aren't enough to kill a tanky/healy spammer. BTW I forgot one that is NEEDED in many cases too 'snare removal'.

BTW I agree, if they remove anything it should be major heroism (although that is a perfect one if your worried about WW), and would be nice if they add a few stats back or just minor toughness if they do. BTW I figured out a couple of builds too, PVE easy pug tank/WW. Can solo too with it.

Dracane

If this would ever be as or almost as good as a normal setup, it should be considered OP. Having to manage only 5 skills and getting pumped with passives no normal build could achieve can hardly be considered balanced when it's enough to have nearly the same if not even better performance in some instances.

This thing would be a massive upgrade for anyone with disability even if it was in the state it was until this patch iteration. It doesn't and shouldn't become good enough to be used by traditional players to any grand success. It should just be left for those it surely was intended for originally instead of trying to still players who just seek for an overpowered item that allows them to play lazier.

remosito

Dracane wrote: »

when it's enough to have nearly the same if not even better performance in some instances.
.

@Dracane

vids or parses of these "instances" or they dont exist..

merpins

Dracane wrote: »

If this would ever be as or almost as good as a normal setup, it should be considered OP. Having to manage only 5 skills and getting pumped with passives no normal build could achieve can hardly be considered balanced when it's enough to have nearly the same if not even better performance in some instances.

This thing would be a massive upgrade for anyone with disability even if it was in the state it was until this patch iteration. It doesn't and shouldn't become good enough to be used by traditional players to any grand success. It should just be left for those it surely was intended for originally instead of trying to still players who just seek for an overpowered item that allows them to play lazier.

Uh... So how do you plan on designing an item that only the disabled can use? The best of the best can get 20% under top end. That's around 100k dps. That's by no means optimal, and that is not overpowered. It's an item designed for people that need it. What you said is like saying PVE players shouldn't be able to use Deadly Strike because it's a PVP set, and therefore it either shouldn't exist or should be nerfed into being bad. Disabled players are players and want good items. Make the item bad, and no one uses it. It's fine where it is right now.

Dracane

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

If this would ever be as or almost as good as a normal setup, it should be considered OP. Having to manage only 5 skills and getting pumped with passives no normal build could achieve can hardly be considered balanced when it's enough to have nearly the same if not even better performance in some instances.

This thing would be a massive upgrade for anyone with disability even if it was in the state it was until this patch iteration. It doesn't and shouldn't become good enough to be used by traditional players to any grand success. It should just be left for those it surely was intended for originally instead of trying to still players who just seek for an overpowered item that allows them to play lazier.

Uh... So how do you plan on designing an item that only the disabled can use? The best of the best can get 20% under top end. That's around 100k dps. That's by no means optimal, and that is not overpowered. It's an item designed for people that need it. What you said is like saying PVE players shouldn't be able to use Deadly Strike because it's a PVP set, and therefore it either shouldn't exist or should be nerfed into being bad. Disabled players are players and want good items. Make the item bad, and no one uses it. It's fine where it is right now.

100k dps would have been hard to achieve for an optimised parse build just a year ago. No way a 1 bar parse should get 100k just like that.

Disabled players would use Oakensoul no matter what. There is no other mythical as overstacked and tailored to that playstyle. Like I said, it would have been completely fine for 1 bar builds in its last iteration. Now, it's so great that it gets way too close to optimised builds and only Divine's know what pvpers will come up with.

qcell

(placeholder)

merpins

Dracane wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

If this would ever be as or almost as good as a normal setup, it should be considered OP. Having to manage only 5 skills and getting pumped with passives no normal build could achieve can hardly be considered balanced when it's enough to have nearly the same if not even better performance in some instances.

This thing would be a massive upgrade for anyone with disability even if it was in the state it was until this patch iteration. It doesn't and shouldn't become good enough to be used by traditional players to any grand success. It should just be left for those it surely was intended for originally instead of trying to still players who just seek for an overpowered item that allows them to play lazier.

Uh... So how do you plan on designing an item that only the disabled can use? The best of the best can get 20% under top end. That's around 100k dps. That's by no means optimal, and that is not overpowered. It's an item designed for people that need it. What you said is like saying PVE players shouldn't be able to use Deadly Strike because it's a PVP set, and therefore it either shouldn't exist or should be nerfed into being bad. Disabled players are players and want good items. Make the item bad, and no one uses it. It's fine where it is right now.

100k dps would have been hard to achieve for an optimised parse build just a year ago. No way a 1 bar parse should get 100k just like that.

Disabled players would use Oakensoul no matter what. There is no other mythical as overstacked and tailored to that playstyle. Like I said, it would have been completely fine for 1 bar builds in its last iteration. Now, it's so great that it gets way too close to optimised builds and only Divine's know what pvpers will come up with.

... A year ago? You mean right when CP 2.0 came out and people hadn't gotten a handle on it yet and thus had trouble making builds, and top end for about a week was 110k dps before jumping up to 130k dps? 100k dps has been the lower end of high end dps for about 4 years now, and most decent Oakensoul builds do 70-90k dps. Only the best of the best do 100k, so what, 1% of players can do that? And that 1% won't bother with it.

The last iteration of the ring was terrible. No one would have used it. The point is to give disabled players a boost. The previous nerfed version of the ring wouldn't have done that, so disabled players literally wouldn't have used it. Why do I know? A close friend of mine has a motor function disability, and even he said the previous version of the ring was a joke.

Merforum

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

If this would ever be as or almost as good as a normal setup, it should be considered OP. Having to manage only 5 skills and getting pumped with passives no normal build could achieve can hardly be considered balanced when it's enough to have nearly the same if not even better performance in some instances.

This thing would be a massive upgrade for anyone with disability even if it was in the state it was until this patch iteration. It doesn't and shouldn't become good enough to be used by traditional players to any grand success. It should just be left for those it surely was intended for originally instead of trying to still players who just seek for an overpowered item that allows them to play lazier.

Uh... So how do you plan on designing an item that only the disabled can use? The best of the best can get 20% under top end. That's around 100k dps. That's by no means optimal, and that is not overpowered. It's an item designed for people that need it. What you said is like saying PVE players shouldn't be able to use Deadly Strike because it's a PVP set, and therefore it either shouldn't exist or should be nerfed into being bad. Disabled players are players and want good items. Make the item bad, and no one uses it. It's fine where it is right now.

100k dps would have been hard to achieve for an optimised parse build just a year ago. No way a 1 bar parse should get 100k just like that.

Disabled players would use Oakensoul no matter what. There is no other mythical as overstacked and tailored to that playstyle. Like I said, it would have been completely fine for 1 bar builds in its last iteration. Now, it's so great that it gets way too close to optimised builds and only Divine's know what pvpers will come up with.

... A year ago? You mean right when CP 2.0 came out and people hadn't gotten a handle on it yet and thus had trouble making builds, and top end for about a week was 110k dps before jumping up to 130k dps? 100k dps has been the lower end of high end dps for about 4 years now, and most decent Oakensoul builds do 70-90k dps. Only the best of the best do 100k, so what, 1% of players can do that? And that 1% won't bother with it.

The last iteration of the ring was terrible. No one would have used it. The point is to give disabled players a boost. The previous nerfed version of the ring wouldn't have done that, so disabled players literally wouldn't have used it. Why do I know? A close friend of mine has a motor function disability, and even he said the previous version of the ring was a joke.

There really should be NO complaints. The ring will have several effects IMO

1. top end PVPer who are used to 2 bars and way better that way will never use it
2. mid level PVPer without disabilities will have TWO options, continue using 2 bar or be about the same with 1 bar
3. disabled and anyone who struggles with 2 bars will have large boost, probably enough to compete with group #2
4. beginner PVPer will have biggest boost but still be killed easily, but be able to get to group 2, 3 FASTER and maybe even jump to group 1 because they won't be SO bad they the quit before they 'git gud'

So ironically the ring gives group 2 more options for builds which you would think was a WIN, but they don't like it ONLY because group 3 will be competitive (which you would also think was a WIN since they keep talking about competition). And as I said before 1vXer will hate this ring because the X will potentially be much stronger.

BTW I am so bad with bar swap I would have used the ring in any form so far for PVP. PVE maybe not the nerfed one. Current version I think I would use it in most activities.

EDIT playing BGs with the sweatlords the past week I can say that something like RAT is going to be mandatory with all the mDK snare spammer, so that is 1 slot gone almost for sure. If using ring with WW might go with one of the snare removal sets.

Dracane

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

A close friend of mine has a motor function disability, and even he said the previous version of the ring was a joke.

Of course he or anyone would say that. Because it wasn't outright OP enough.
Time will tell. I will definitely be using it or at the very least try it.

merpins

Dracane wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

A close friend of mine has a motor function disability, and even he said the previous version of the ring was a joke.

Of course he or anyone would say that. Because it wasn't outright OP enough.
Time will tell. I will definitely be using it or at the very least try it.

I'm sure everyone will try it, but it won't stick. Also, it was bad in its previous nerfed state: every stat it gave was covered by groups, and more than half the item was covered by a single potion.

Time will definitely tell. I'm sure people'll get some casual builds together that could be fun to use. But I doubt that it'll be anything game breaking. If anything it'll just give you more options. Make an easier build at the cost of 20+% effectiveness? It'll probably be a normal option like that. Do you wanna run your op guy at half power in pugs because you can't get through a single rotation before a boss dies, or do you wanna play a casual 1 bar 2 button build that is at full effectiveness in random dailies without having to go through all the dots that does 60k-70k dps. I doubt it'll be much more than that for the layman that doesnt actively need it.

darkred666

Hello everyone,
Usually I don’t give my opinion or very little if not asked but I find that there is too much bad faith on the part of some players.
Personally, I find this ring in this v3 top version and what it finally took to be able to play anything and everything to add challenge in eso.
I’ve never had so much fun with this ring in teso in a long time trying a lot of set combinations with the ring.
In addition, it allows and it is important to bridge the gap between vet and new players or casual players but also those with disabilities. as some have put it up with this ring the counter part is important we have 5 slots and one less ultimate is huge. For me the ring in its current form can never really replace a combianaison with 2 bars opti for the dps. but at least it allows alternative game styles and allow people with disabilities to better compete with and play more high-level content. no need for the ring for normal content, it is too easy.
This is only my opinion as a player and only engages me. We often criticize zos wrongly or is right whatever he does because when there are changes. but this is for me a good change and especially an addition with the accesiblity options to allow people who have worries to be able to play teso and to be able to advance in the game and get satifaction in the game like everyone else.
PS : sorry for my poor english; this is not my main language

K9002

This ring feels almost like taken out of TES 3. Single player TES always had short duration buffs but the tedium of recasting them could be alleviated by wearing items with permanent buff enchantments. Some unique items came pre-enchanted with multiple buffs on a single piece. If you know the TES 3 inventory system, then you know how many different items could be worn.

For me it boils down to ESO's enchantment system being so nonsensical. We still have to juggle short buffs but we can't really put them on items (other than 5 piece bonuses like Rattlecage), we just get these bland HP/mag/stam runes for all 7 pieces of armor. I don't think the enchanting system could be reworked without introducing brand new balance issues, so using a mythic item that covers the standardized buffs seems like the best compromise.

Dogvahkiin

Oakensoul https://youtube.com/watch?v=Wk2AA0jvhpQ
vs
traditional Setup https://youtube.com/watch?v=vnlwkbqqDYs

...obviously totally balanced


And about the arguments of "loosing 5 abilities and one ultimate, so it needs to be powerful":
That's under the assumption of managing all of your backbar abilities perfectly with 100% uptime while doing damage with your frontbar - and one bar is obviously a lot easier to play (and maintain dps) while performing mechanics.
So: why using 2-bar setups in future?