Dark Convergence
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VarisVaris
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Since last patch the general outrage about this set has cooled off a lot.
However the only reason for this was that Dark Convergence was effected by a bug that prevented it from dealing the absurd damage numbers we've seen prior to the Deadlands patch.
Damage numbers so high that people fled from CP PvP and headed into no cp with set restrictions to avoid this set.
Ascending Tides fixes those bugs which will result in Dark Convergence becoming omnipresent again.
The set simply does too much and the bad performance makes matters even worse.
Lets sum up what DC does for you:
-Deals absurd amounts of damage that give
ultimates a fun for their money
-Pull and Stuns!!! players in the area
-Stacks those players together
-Snares the affected players
-ignores block
-has a 15 seconds cooldown
With how laggy the game is especially in Primetime people are often not able to break free because the server isn't responding causing them to turn into sitting ducks waiting there for you to run them over.
Ranged Bomb builds build on this lack of responsiveness because in a regular situation no one would ever die to someone popping a ranged destro ult and using elemental ring for additional damage, the only reason it is as effective is that people cannot do anything for multiple seconds when they've been pulled in.
There are 2 changes that should be done to Dark Convergence before this patch hits the live servers to make it less overperforming.
1.remove the stun after being pulled in, the server simply cannot keep up with that.
2. Reduce the base damage further and increase the damage bonus to 100% extra damage per target hit just like proximity detonation.
However the only reason for this was that Dark Convergence was effected by a bug that prevented it from dealing the absurd damage numbers we've seen prior to the Deadlands patch.
Damage numbers so high that people fled from CP PvP and headed into no cp with set restrictions to avoid this set.
Ascending Tides fixes those bugs which will result in Dark Convergence becoming omnipresent again.
The set simply does too much and the bad performance makes matters even worse.
Lets sum up what DC does for you:
-Deals absurd amounts of damage that give
ultimates a fun for their money
-Pull and Stuns!!! players in the area
-Stacks those players together
-Snares the affected players
-ignores block
-has a 15 seconds cooldown
With how laggy the game is especially in Primetime people are often not able to break free because the server isn't responding causing them to turn into sitting ducks waiting there for you to run them over.
Ranged Bomb builds build on this lack of responsiveness because in a regular situation no one would ever die to someone popping a ranged destro ult and using elemental ring for additional damage, the only reason it is as effective is that people cannot do anything for multiple seconds when they've been pulled in.
There are 2 changes that should be done to Dark Convergence before this patch hits the live servers to make it less overperforming.
1.remove the stun after being pulled in, the server simply cannot keep up with that.
2. Reduce the base damage further and increase the damage bonus to 100% extra damage per target hit just like proximity detonation.
10
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AJones43865✭✭✭✭Dark Convergence needs to be fixed by making it so it only effects NPC's. It's either that or remove the set from the game all together.
They never nerfed or fixed Dark Convergence to begin with. It still does all the stuff ZOS says it doesn't do.10 -
IronWooshu✭✭✭✭✭
✭Honestly Dark Convergence should do no damage, it should be used as utility cc only.12 -
TechMaybeHic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'd be fine with it's damage even when fixed. It's the pull that's the issue. Pulls people off walls, and due to it needing to be able to stun after the pull, it does not give CC immunity right away so it's possible with multiple going off, to be pulled multiple times in succession. And the pull doesn't force people to spread out; it gathers them in kind of countering it's own counter.3 -
Succuby✭✭✭Pull is not new mechanick to the game.
It was BROKEN for tanks last patches, that after pull mobs do not take attention for tanks for 3 seconds.
Why do i say it ? Because if game follow some standarts, as example pull standart - the Dark Convergence was not even a problem.
1 second animation - than pull with stun.
Have time to block not too be pulled or eat potion or use skill for the same.
With randomly game changes - we just get what we get. And it is not some really big problem for the game.
With no standarts - we always will get balance for people who cry more.
If it was one real standart like game have before in example 2017-2018 year real good balance is possible.
Now all we see = random changes.
Game only degrade this way.Edited by Succuby on February 10, 2022 11:48AM0 -
Abyssmol✭✭✭✭✭"Dark Convergence: Fixed an issue where some sound effects from this set were not playing properly." - this is awesome. Now we can hear DC pulling us off keep walls.10
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Succuby✭✭✭It really does, but why standart pulls does not ?
Why it works different ?
Why tanks lose3 seconds mobs attention in PVE from pull and gain nothing ?
And on thefirst place why pull DOES not need to pull from walls and keeps if it strikes ?Edited by Succuby on February 11, 2022 7:36AM0 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You left out that it is still pulling folks off keeps / walls.
But ZOS stated in the patch notes that they fixed the "unintended behavior." Therefore the pulling from the third floor to the ground and through walls and doors must be intended behavior.
Which brings the question: what unintended behavior did they fix exactly? They were specifically vague about it.2 -
xDeusEJRx✭✭✭✭✭
✭IronWooshu wrote: »Honestly Dark Convergence should do no damage, it should be used as utility cc only.
Unfortunately, that's not what the set's intended for. Zos made it to do group wiping, not a utility/CC set as they stated when releasing it.
Maybe they could look at the pull/cc of it, but it's not intended for a utility set, it's intended to do zerg wiping.
So the chances of them removing the damage of it, is probably zero, if we're being honest.Solo PvP'er PS5 NA player
90% of my body is made of Magblade0 -
ealdwin✭✭✭✭✭
✭If I may speak openly and be honest... then original purpose and/or intent be [snip]. It's an over-budgeted set that does too much for its conditions and has a nasty side-effect of being a rotten annoyance in any form of PVP it has a presence in. Make it only effect non-player enemies, or remove the pull, or remove the damage. If that makes the set deconstruction fodder, then good riddance and to heck with it.
Edit: And plaguebreak too!
[edited for profanity bypass]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 26, 2022 7:35PM2 -
Jaimeh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You left out that it is still pulling folks off keeps / walls.
Yup, this is still happening. The other day I was upstairs in a keep, standing on top of the stairs, not near any edges, and a dark convergence pulled me near the D rink and through the hole downstairs. It was quite the whiplash
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etchedpixels✭✭✭✭✭
✭If I may speak openly and be honest... then original purpose and/or intent be [snip]. It's an over-budgeted set that does too much for its conditions and has a nasty side-effect of being a rotten annoyance in any form of PVP it has a presence in. Make it only effect non-player enemies, or remove the pull, or remove the damage. If that makes the set deconstruction fodder, then good riddance and to heck with it.
Edit: And plaguebreak too!
As a PvE player - it needs nerfing. In PvE it's also ridiculously overpowered when combined with things like titanic cleave. I love it but it's really quite ridiculously good.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 26, 2022 7:36PMToo many toons not enough time0 -
Arunei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It just needs to apply a unique CC that prevents people from being affected more than once every X seconds, and fixed so it won't pull off of siege and walls. It can't be intended that this thing can pull people through walls and doors either.Character List [RP and PvE]:SpoilerStands-Against-Death: Argonian Magplar Healer - Crafter
Krisiel: Redguard Stamsorc DPS - Literally crazy Werewolf, no like legit insane. She nuts
Kiju Veran: Khajiit Stamblade DPS - Ex-Fighters Guild Suthay who likes to punch things, nicknamed Tinykat
Niralae Elsinal: Altmer Stamsorc DPS - Young Altmer with way too much Magicka
Sarah Lacroix: Breton Magsorc DPS - Fledgling Vampire who drinks too much water
Slondor: Nord Tankblade - TESified verson of Slenderman
Marius Vastino: Imperial <insert role here> - Sarah's apathetic sire who likes to monologue
Delthor Rellenar: Dunmer Magknight DPS - Sarah's ex who's a certified psychopath
Lirawyn Calatare: Altmer Magplar Healer - Traveling performer and bard who's 101% vanilla bean
Gondryn Beldeau: Breton Tankplar - Sarah's Mages Guild mentor and certified badass old person
Gwendolyn Jenelle: Breton Magplar Healer - Friendly healer with a coffee addiction
Soliril Larethian- Altmer Magblade DPS - Blind alchemist who uses animals to see and brews plagues in his spare time
Tevril Rallenar: Dunmer Stamcro DPS - Delthor's "special" younger brother who raises small animals as friends
Celeroth Calatare: Bosmer <insert role here> - Shapeshifting Bosmer with enough sass to fill Valenwood
PC - NA - EP - CP1000+
Avid RPer. Hit me up in-game @Ras_Lei if you're interested in getting together for some arr-pee shenanigans!0 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
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The biggest problem here is that ZOS is trying to fix core gameplay mechanics (that is kinda game breaking at its core) with a set.Unfortunately, that's not what the set's intended for. Zos made it to do group wiping, not a utility/CC set as they stated when releasing it.
That is like trying to fix a faulty car engine with an oil change. It is not how it should be done. Ball groups as a "type of gameplay" or "play-style" have always been an issue and were always causing balancing issues. No matter what counter to stacking ZOS was adding throughout years - the result was always ball groups using those counters to their advantage.
The only time when an actual balance change worked against ball groups was when ZOS changed Pale Order ring so it would scale with group size (larger the group, the weaker this set gets). And I do believe that is how things should be balanced in the future. Something like this could be added to battle spirit, so that sets / abilities / passives etc would get gradually weaker the larger the group is. Heck, one of new, upcoming Rewards for the Worthy set (Rallying Cry) has something like this:
5 – While Battle Spirit is active, critically healing yourself or an ally causes you and up to 11 other group members within 12 meters to gain 300 Weapon and Spell Damage, and 1650 Critical Resistance for 20 seconds. Each group member affected reduces the Weapon and Spell Damage by 15 and the Critical Resistance by 83. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.
I am glad they are trying more of those types of scaling. But I believe that this is only the tip of the mountain, and I hope that eventually we will see all sets & abilities to have such scaling - at least in PvP.
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moleculardrugs✭✭✭✭Will the upcoming patch allow dark convergence to combat ball groups better or not at all? That’s what I’m wondering0 -
doesurmindglow✭✭✭✭✭moleculardrugs wrote: »Will the upcoming patch allow dark convergence to combat ball groups better or not at all? That’s what I’m wondering
Don't need to wonder, it will objectively make ball groups stronger. Dark Convergence is a must-have in every ball group composition. They use it to stack pugs in advance of their coordinated AOE damage.
The buff will make this use case stronger still. They're optimized for CC immunity, so rolling out of enemy Dark Convergence will be relatively easy for them. But just like Vicious Death and Plaguebreak, it remains a very potent tool in ball groups' arsenal and the bug fix will only further strengthen that arsenal.Edited by doesurmindglow on February 14, 2022 10:28AMGuildmaster : The Wild Hunt (formerly Aka Baka) : AD PC/NA3 -
spacefracking✭✭✭✭Dark convergence made me quit pvp. Thanks zos. Please don't bring it back, it was a terrible mistake.9 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
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Unfortunately, that's not what the set's intended for. Zos made it to do group wiping, not a utility/CC set as they stated when releasing it.
Maybe they could look at the pull/cc of it, but it's not intended for a utility set, it's intended to do zerg wiping.
So the chances of them removing the damage of it, is probably zero, if we're being honest.
the biggest problem i see with their notes is that they recommend combining it with some hard CC, dark convergence itself already does a soft AND hard CC (the pull im considering "soft" because it doesnt apply cc immunity, and then the set itself applies a "hard' cc in the form of a stun right before it explodes)
the other thing that would also help out the problems is giving you cc immunity while using siegeplays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
feel free to stop by and use the facilities0 -
Veinblood1965✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Thank you! I was missing seeing DC threads, carry on!
I personally like the new set, I don't use it and get caught by it all the time, makes it interesting instead of the same old same old.0 -
CaptainVenom✭✭✭✭✭
✭People still complain about Dark Convergence? Jeez...🌈 Ride with Pride🌈
Magicka/Damage Sorcerer - PC - NA - DC2 -
Excelsus✭✭✭✭CaptainVenom wrote: »People still complain about Dark Convergence? Jeez...
Imagine still complaining about DC in 2022... get with the times guys. I only complain about Gryphons Repraisal Harmony builds... I doubt youve heard of them.0 -
Veinblood1965✭✭✭✭✭
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Imagine still complaining about DC in 2022... get with the times guys. I only complain about Gryphons Repraisal Harmony builds... I doubt youve heard of them.
I hate those, I'll start a thread. Here is the LINK.1 -
doesurmindglow✭✭✭✭✭CaptainVenom wrote: »People still complain about Dark Convergence? Jeez...
It's receiving a buff on PTS so yes, people are responding to the proposed changes that will make it much more prevalent again in PVP.
Which, to be fair, is a terrible idea. We lost a tremendous amount of players during that meta, and it became challenging to find decent fights outside of primetime in open world PVP. We should not replicate that failure.Guildmaster : The Wild Hunt (formerly Aka Baka) : AD PC/NA0 -
prof_doom✭✭✭✭✭doesurmindglow wrote: »
It's receiving a buff on PTS so yes, people are responding to the proposed changes that will make it much more prevalent again in PVP.
Which, to be fair, is a terrible idea. We lost a tremendous amount of players during that meta, and it became challenging to find decent fights outside of primetime in open world PVP. We should not replicate that failure.
The solution, as always, is simple. Separate PVP and PVE values for gear/skills.
Yes, buffing Dark Convergence is toxic in PVP. Not buffing Dark Convergence leaves it barely useful in PVE.
So no matter what, one group is going to be unhappy.1 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
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The solution, as always, is simple. Separate PVP and PVE values for gear/skills.
They actually have the capability to do this.
Take for example the sorcerer skill Suppression Field. It stuns PvE enemies, but silences PvP enemies instead. It's well within the realm of possibility to make other skills and sets adapt to the game type being played.
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Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
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They actually have the capability to do this.
Take for example the sorcerer skill Suppression Field. It stuns PvE enemies, but silences PvP enemies instead. It's well within the realm of possibility to make other skills and sets adapt to the game type being played.
or another more recent example, the whole "mist form debacle" lolplays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
feel free to stop by and use the facilities2 -
azjuwelz✭✭✭✭This set caused my entire guild to stop pvping for months. And not as a group decision—just many, many individuals until nobody was doing any pvp anywhere.Xbox-NA
Guildmaster of Nightmothers Deadly Deals
PVE/PVP Stamblade: Ylandra Silverthorn
PVE Magwarden healer: Raw'zl Dah Zel
PVE DK Tank: Greta Feuerwerk
PVP StamDK: Helga Feuerwerk
PVP Necro Healer: Dratha Helbain
PVE Magcro: Dorian Fey
PVE Magblade: Arivssa Thaoral
PVE Magsorc: Eldara Birchwood4 -
StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DELETE DARK CONVERGENCE!!!!spacefracking wrote: »Dark convergence made me quit pvp. Thanks zos. Please don't bring it back, it was a terrible mistake.
Like a mistake that someone doesn't want to admit they made.2
