PTS Update 33 - Feedback Thread for Account Wide Achievements

Jaimeh

Jaraal wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

It's a cold, calculated business decision, nothing more. Instead of expanding the infrastructure to keep pace with the evolving game, a decision was made to remove gameplay that we have come to love for the past eight years. Out of all the data that could be chosen for deletion, they chose that which means the most to us.

This ^ right here needs to be pointed out again and again. And if 70+ pages, plus numerous similar threads, plus feedback given through tickets in-game, haven't changed their minds, and they are still going through it instead of finding another solution (even if it was a costly and lengthy solution, it would still serve both them and the playerbase better in the long-term...) then the only way left to show dissatisfaction is by our lack of support.

ADarklore

Vulkunne wrote: »

At this point... if I was in charge over there I would sit down with everyone around a kitchen table... figure out where all the problems are and just rebuild the game from scratch. Forget trying to patch an 8 year old game and putting everyone thru burdensome changes. Just rebuild it and move the characters over if you can and move on.

See, that's the problem right there. They are still 'working remotely' and I believe this is why we have been seeing so many problems since the pandemic began. They are not 'sitting around discussing' and no matter what people say, I don't believe talking to people on a monitor is the same thing or gets the same points across. Being able to sit down next to them, or across the table, is a much more effective means of communication. You can't just walk over to someone's desk and say, "Hey, I found this problem, bring it up"... working remotely, you have to call- and hope they are working on the issue at the time and not eating breakfast or whatever. Until they get back to working in the office, I don't believe we're going to see improvements.

ArchangelIsraphel

Tandor wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

..... the coldness with which our concerns were addressed....

I think this is the key, right here.

There is no empathy for the players, or respect for the millions of hours we have spent on replaying the game and collecting achievements with our alts. It's a cold, calculated business decision, nothing more. Instead of expanding the infrastructure to keep pace with the evolving game, a decision was made to remove gameplay that we have come to love for the past eight years. Out of all the data that could be chosen for deletion, they chose that which means the most to us.

The coldness isn't just in the business decision that was taken, but also most critically in the wall of silence that was erected around it. That's the aspect that I find the most disappointing, and the most surprising as even for a company not renowned for its communication skills ZOS have previously tended to explain controversial changes and discuss them openly with the community which simply hasn't happened in any meaningful way in this case.

I agree with you wholly. Sometimes, it feels as though they are afraid of us, and these walls are raised so that they feel justified in doing what they are about to do without hearing why it is hurting the game and a portion of the playerbase that loved it in the longrun.

I'm not saying that to insult or bash them. To me, it feels like a matter of fact statement. We are so passionate about this game, that it scares them when they do not hear the sentiments bouncing off their internal echo chamber reflected back at them. They blithely respond to us as if the player base absolutely adores the company and every step it makes, standing before us with a smile as they openly proclaim how great we think everything they do is on livestreams and in other media, when quite the opposite is true.

Just look at how they spoke about companions being a "well received" update, when criticism and dissatisfaction continues to be voiced concerning them, both on the forums and in game. There are still daily discussions in zone chat about them, its become almost as big a meme as the infamous Stuga.

They say that these forum posts are being read and looked over by the team, and while this may be true, I feel like the people who really need to read and understand the impact of these decisions have not actually looked at a single word of what was written here. And if they have, it seems they have no sympathy for them as they would rather gut the game than fix it in such a way that it can continue to be unique and whole.

Nor do they seem to understand that their Q&A has not cleared up any "confusion". There was never any confusion to begin with, except about their motivations for such a change. Now that those motivations have been released, the atmosphere of dread concerning this change, and the companies seemingly unmovable perspective on it, has increased ten fold.

That, and the fact that their answer to #1 almost word for word reflects some of the forum posts here that have said "why this is a QOL update" without taking into consideration why we are saying it is NOT, is a distressing move by the company.

ZOS, telling us that you are removing elements of gameplay and content people enjoyed, telling them that you are tearing their motivation for creating new characters out of the game to "Improve performance" will not suddenly make it all okay.

We aren't going to suddenly go "Oh! You're stifling the unique identity of thousands of characters and the time and effort players spent recording that development to make performance improvements eight years after the fact? Performance improvements that should have been looked into long ago, when a better system for dealing with unique character tracking could have been developed along side AWA? Well, that makes me feel so much better! Hallelujah, I've seen the light! Please, let me be the first to offer my character up to Molag Bal a second time!"

Except this time, there wont be a quest to get back what was taken.

I wonder if Meridia will appear to us one day and reunite us with our character data.

"That is the name I have given you. You are but a trace of your former self. A soulless one. An empty vessel that longs to be filled. It is as the Scrolls foretold, but not exactly as I imagined."
―Varen Aquilarios to the Vestige

Indeed, Varen, it is not exactly as I imagined at all.

deleted221106-002999

Currently the ambience for a new character is great - they haven't done anything and npc reactions reflect that: guards and other npcs are rude and dismissive as they should be.

On pts a new-made character is already saviour of the virtual universe.

The difference is really noticeable. It makes no sense, is deeply jarring and is most unpleasant.

There has to be some way to save this richness of individual character development going forward.

wulfienfang

So what is the point of this AWA?

Why even bother have new characters now?

We have the armory station, so now at this point why not just take out all the character slots but one. Put it all in the armory station, make the different races a costume, and just give us, what 10 slots to choose a different race and skills on that one character? Why both even making a new character or have multiple characters anymore.

So now character A kills world boss X, I log into Character B, Congrats! You just killed world boss X!!!!

Character A gets all the sky shards in zone A

Character B gets all those sky shards ...for doing nothing! but being on the same account.

There is no work, no play time with the new character, no PLAYING that new character to get use that build, make connections with its lore.

NOPE! Next you can just level all new characters to 50 and just run straight for that VET dungeon or whatever other PVP [snip]

I hope subscriptions plumet after this "dumbing down" [snip] or catering to one loud and specific group of people.

I just see now point in having any other character now, there is just no point at all.

[edited for profanity bypass]

Araneae6537

One of my early oh-wow-this-game-is-awesome moments was hearing ambient dialogue change after I’d completed some quests in Northern Elsweyr and then seeing the flag change — I LOVE being able to make a difference in the world.

Another thing I love (and have requested more of more often perhaps than expressing appreciation for what we do have) is being able to make choices, and that’s one of the things I have frequently enjoyed about side quests in zones as there is often a choice in the outcomes. And that’s also been the case in several dungeons and my characters may be praised or criticized for their deeds and choices. Will that now all be the same?

All this great work will be turned into a negative if characters are going to be praised or reviled for things they’ve never done. If I have any confusion, this is it: How is this deemed an acceptable sacrifice for anything? For performance? For some additional feature? This is such an essential part of the game.

silvereyes

wulfienfang wrote: »

Character A gets all the sky shards in zone A

Character B gets all those sky shards ...for doing nothing! but being on the same account.

No they don’t. Turn off your skyshards or Map Pins addons. Only the skyshards achievements are account wide, not the shards themselves.

dzugarueb17_ESO

silvereyes wrote: »

wulfienfang wrote: »

Character A gets all the sky shards in zone A

Character B gets all those sky shards ...for doing nothing! but being on the same account.

No they don’t. Turn off your skyshards or Map Pins addons. Only the skyshards achievements are account wide, not the shards themselves.

How do you keep track of what skyshards are taken and what are not on dosen chars then? Excel spreadsheet like the one we used to keep for alchemy? Seriously?

Jaraal

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

They say that these forum posts are being read and looked over by the team, and while this may be true, I feel like the people who really need to read and understand the impact of these decisions have not actually looked at a single word of what was written here. And if they have, it seems they have no sympathy for them as they would rather gut the game than fix it in such a way that it can continue to be unique and whole.

Matt Firor is the boss, ultimately it's his decision. And he has remained silent on the matter. We don't even know if he's read a single post about it.

It's easy to point fingers at Gina and Kevin and the forum moderators, but it's not their call. They are just the messengers that have to deal with the "cranky" players.

tomofhyrule

dzugarueb17_ESO wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

wulfienfang wrote: »

Character A gets all the sky shards in zone A

Character B gets all those sky shards ...for doing nothing! but being on the same account.

No they don’t. Turn off your skyshards or Map Pins addons. Only the skyshards achievements are account wide, not the shards themselves.

How do you keep track of what skyshards are taken and what are not on dosen chars then? Excel spreadsheet like the one we used to keep for alchemy? Seriously?

That's one of the few things we can still track in the zone guide. Along with Striking Locales.

I don't understand why striking locales work but delves dons, but I really hope ZOS just makes the exploration and quest achievements all character-based until their 'elegant solution' has been found. I don't care what the history of my character clearing certain delves is, but I do want to still be able to explore the map from scratch.

SilverBride

tomofhyrule wrote: »

...I do want to still be able to explore the map from scratch.

This is also what I would like because that is how I play the game. I recently made my first alt in a few years and was really looking forward to completing every quest and every map objective in every zone, like my 3 characters before her did.

Is there some way that completing the map objectives could be connected to something other than the achievements so they could skill be tracked per character?

Kesstryl

Araneae6537 wrote: »

One of my early oh-wow-this-game-is-awesome moments was hearing ambient dialogue change after I’d completed some quests in Northern Elsweyr and then seeing the flag change — I LOVE being able to make a difference in the world.

Another thing I love (and have requested more of more often perhaps than expressing appreciation for what we do have) is being able to make choices, and that’s one of the things I have frequently enjoyed about side quests in zones as there is often a choice in the outcomes. And that’s also been the case in several dungeons and my characters may be praised or criticized for their deeds and choices. Will that now all be the same?

All this great work will be turned into a negative if characters are going to be praised or reviled for things they’ve never done. If I have any confusion, this is it: How is this deemed an acceptable sacrifice for anything? For performance? For some additional feature? This is such an essential part of the game.

I think you will forever hear the choices of whatever character was the first one who did those, so if you chose an evil option, your good characters will forever hear what a Molag Bal hind kissing loser you are. Could someone test this on PTS? That you are hearing responses for the first character who did those things or achieved those things based on how AwA recorded them?

ArchangelIsraphel

Jaraal wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

They say that these forum posts are being read and looked over by the team, and while this may be true, I feel like the people who really need to read and understand the impact of these decisions have not actually looked at a single word of what was written here. And if they have, it seems they have no sympathy for them as they would rather gut the game than fix it in such a way that it can continue to be unique and whole.

Matt Firor is the boss, ultimately it's his decision. And he has remained silent on the matter. We don't even know if he's read a single post about it.

It's easy to point fingers at Gina and Kevin and the forum moderators, but it's not their call. They are just the messengers that have to deal with the "cranky" players.

Yes, that section of my post is mainly aimed at the higher ups. The community managers are merely the messengers. If they have any feelings about this, it must be very frustrating for them to be unable to express them to us because they aren't being allowed to.

alberichtano

SilverBride wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

...I do want to still be able to explore the map from scratch.

This is also what I would like because that is how I play the game. I recently made my first alt in a few years and was really looking forward to completing every quest and every map objective in every zone, like my 3 characters before her did.

Is there some way that completing the map objectives could be connected to something other than the achievements so they could skill be tracked per character?

Sure there could. But that would gobble up as much resources, if not more, than the current system. So that is not going to happen either, I think. (But if someone more adept in databases knows better, feel free to correct me.)

SilverBride

alberichtano wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

...I do want to still be able to explore the map from scratch.

This is also what I would like because that is how I play the game. I recently made my first alt in a few years and was really looking forward to completing every quest and every map objective in every zone, like my 3 characters before her did.

Is there some way that completing the map objectives could be connected to something other than the achievements so they could skill be tracked per character?

Sure there could. But that would gobble up as much resources, if not more, than the current system. So that is not going to happen either, I think. (But if someone more adept in databases knows better, feel free to correct me.)

I'm not sure it would. Would a client side option work without using up resources if there was one? I don't know how this works either but am hopeful that a way to track map completion may be found.

Kesstryl

SilverBride wrote: »

alberichtano wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

...I do want to still be able to explore the map from scratch.

This is also what I would like because that is how I play the game. I recently made my first alt in a few years and was really looking forward to completing every quest and every map objective in every zone, like my 3 characters before her did.

Is there some way that completing the map objectives could be connected to something other than the achievements so they could skill be tracked per character?

Sure there could. But that would gobble up as much resources, if not more, than the current system. So that is not going to happen either, I think. (But if someone more adept in databases knows better, feel free to correct me.)

I'm not sure it would. Would a client side option work without using up resources if there was one? I don't know how this works either but am hopeful that a way to track map completion may be found.

I think this was already talked about, and the conclusion is that anything client side is easy to tamper with. Also, if you lose your hard drive, you will have lost everything with no way to get it back.

deleted221106-002999

Kesstryl wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

...Would a client side option work without using up resources if there was one? I don't know how this works either but am hopeful that a way to track map completion may be found.

I think this was already talked about, and the conclusion is that anything client side is easy to tamper with. Also, if you lose your hard drive, you will have lost everything with no way to get it back.

I've asked a few times (here, here and here) about client-side; had zero response from zos (even sent messages to @ZOS_GinaBruno and @ZOS_Kevin in attempt to bump awareness/discussion/exploration/feedback). Haven't seen anyone else discuss it.

Doesn't matter if the data isn't tamper-proof since it only affects the individual player and has no impact on the game (assuming just using the current character-specific achievements interface with data stored/processed client side using same server side calls that work with proposed account-wide). If the client side data was used for npc interactions preferred by many then again it would only matter to that player and would have no other affect on any other player or the game. The only issue is the data becoming the player's responsibility but, if this was clearly flagged at update time, then it's on the player to ensure backups, which is fair enough. It may be advantageous for other uses to have such client-side data human readable/editable anyway.

I could easily live with a system like this as it would preserve the game I prefer to play, account-wide players could just ignore it and zos would get their arguable server performance gains. Everyone wins.

I expect it could be done but I very much doubt the will to attempt it exists.

It just looks like they've all signed off on this with the near simultaneous release of the 'news' announcement and the q&a.

Onwards and downwards, unfortunately.

edit: editing

silvereyes

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I don't understand why striking locales work but delves dons, but I really hope ZOS just makes the exploration and quest achievements all character-based until their 'elegant solution' has been found

I imagine it's probably because the code is already tracking exploration discovery points independently of achievements, and the zone guide and map icons are keyed off of that data set and not achievements. The same thing goes for points of interest, mundus stones and wayshrines.

Conversely, there doesn't seem to have been a separate boss / world event completion flag data set. The zone guide and map icons for clearing things that require combat appear to have been triggered based upon achievements.

It probably seemed like a good idea at the time, since it required less duplicate data to track. Unfortunately, it created a dependency on achievements that is now leading to what most consider bugs in the zone guide.

Vulkunne

The gaming company could partner with a cloud storage provider that you would not have direct access to. Your sub fee would cover both costs.

- When playing the game it can quickly pull your profile from the cloud and then update while playing or when you log off
- Vendor manages your data storage at a reasonable fee, game dev manages the game with no additional fees

Problem solved. I would think this solution would have been considered especially now that ZOS is with MS. And that's my greatest concern in all this as far as why can they not work together to solve problems like this.

spacefracking

Comrade_Ogilvy wrote: »

Currently the ambience for a new character is great - they haven't done anything and npc reactions reflect that: guards and other npcs are rude and dismissive as they should be.

On pts a new-made character is already saviour of the virtual universe.

The difference is really noticeable. It makes no sense, is deeply jarring and is most unpleasant.

There has to be some way to save this richness of individual character development going forward.

^^^ it feels as though this decision was made from the perspective of someone who just tests things on template characters with 0 previous account progress. It caters to people who don't play this game very much.

silvereyes

This isn't a fix for all the issues on PTS, and it does nothing for those on console, but I've made an addon to hide "earned by" tooltips on multi-character account-wide achievements earned after U33 goes live.

https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info3313-Honestly-EarnedAchievements.html


So at least for those on PC, you won't need to fear loading your alts in the wrong order on launch day, since there won't be any partial credit given to anyone. Achievements that were completed before Update 33 will retain their "earned by" tooltips, as well as single-objective achievements earned after Update 33 launches.

Kesstryl

silvereyes wrote: »

This isn't a fix for all the issues on PTS, and it does nothing for those on console, but I've made an addon to hide "earned by" tooltips on multi-character account-wide achievements earned after U33 goes live.

https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info3313-Honestly-EarnedAchievements.html


So at least for those on PC, you won't need to fear loading your alts in the wrong order on launch day, since there won't be any partial credit given to anyone. Achievements that were completed before Update 33 will retain their "earned by" tooltips, as well as single-objective achievements earned after Update 33 launches.

If only someone could make an addon to make all the NPCs giving inappropriate dialogue to alts silent. I'd rather the game world go silent than hear how magnanimous I am on my level 3 alt! Thank you though for helping in what way you can.

Raevenglass

Just look at how they spoke about companions being a "well received" update, when criticism and dissatisfaction continues to be voiced concerning them, both on the forums and in game. There are still daily discussions in zone chat about them, its become almost as big a meme as the infamous Stuga..

The difference to me, though, is I can choose whether or not I want to have companions along for the ride. With the AwA as being implemented, I don't have a choice.

I'd like to have a choice.

KaosWarMonk

So wrt the proposed change to achievements being account wide I guess this is what we're saying...




Thank you

Arunei

Jaraal wrote: »

Saieden wrote: »

dzugarueb17_ESO wrote: »

What am I going to say is harsh.

Do you realize, that most of your players play this game because no other new Elder Scrolls game is on the horizon?

You're going to gut replayability of a basically single player (because it is - for so, so many people) game, for what, slight DB size reduction?

Yeah, this really can't affect performance in any way - I work as a game developer longer than I'm here with you (for 8 years btw), and I've seen various systems and databases along the way - and the reason stated is completely baffling to me (as for many other people).

Maybe you can fix the quests and quest consequences (a very important thing for a single player RPG, mind), but considering you fix some bugs in quests for years - can we count on you fixing this enormous disaster we see it on PTS in such a miniscule timeframe? I guess we realistically can't.

Ok, putting aside quests - zone guide shows delves and dolmens and whatnot as completed on a brand new toon - this is not a glaring bug to you, like, seriously? You won't even acknowledge this as a bug? What about other achiev only trackers - riddles, etc.? Thats a disaster.

You've done a lot of great QoL things for a single player, convenient and replayable experience, basically the whole history if ESO shows commitment to a single player player base - One Tamriel, companions, alchemy tracking etc. - it was really great. But now you're taking a step in a whole other direction and the huge player opinion split shows that. Why?

Please, delay this thing, it definitely needs to be worked on more. Its basically "resources scarcity" from Eve Online reddit situation - there is no shame in devs admitting the decision is rushed and taking time to work on it.

Most of this, in some form or another, has been said since the day one of the PTS cycle. They ignored all of it and are doubling-down on burning their game from the inside.

Yes, regardless of the potential fallout, they are already past the point of no return. The official announcement being put up on the website after weeks of "feedback" means it's a done deal. And probably has been since before it dropped on the PTS.

Which makes me curious as to why they stated that they would be 'reviewing our concerns', if it was all a moot point?

Lip service, essentially. Notice how the Q&A didn't come out until AFTER the article stating it's coming next update? They knew they wouldn't actually take into consideration the legitimate concerns of players and the number of bugs and glitches this will cause, they were just stalling until it was made official with the article that it's happening.

peacenote

Jaraal wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

I still can't believe it was released on PTS in this state. Did they think we wanted all our characters to just play dress up and drag queen each other as if they're all the same person? It's just so gross for an Elder Scrolls game!

Apparently they think some people wanted that - and apparently some do.

Hard to tell actual percent wise, and seriously, how would you gather or sort data to assess this? (semi-serious question)

I think it's going to be a case of "be careful what you wish for." A lot of folks came to this thread (and others) early on saying, "Yay, AWA finally!" But when they read the details and saw the actual implementation, were like, "OK, maybe this needs more work, this isn't exactly what I was hoping for." And ZOS has spun it by saying 'You guys have been requesting this for years!'.... essentially placing the burden of responsibility squarely upon the shoulders of the players themselves.

Yes, and this is why I think the FAQ was especially tone deaf (and cold as others have said). By linking AwA with the character-specific changes, we're being told that we asked for character-specific data to be deleted which in many, many cases for people pro-AwA was NOT true.

However, this is why I try to always make posts showing all sides that I can imagine of an issue, and also why I get frustrated with topics on the forums boil things down in a way that are too simplified or are obviously thinking about only one perspective. When healing orbs and springs got nerfed, TONS of people on the forums were saying that it was because ZOS was done with mindless healbots who just spammed orbs. The forums were divided (kind of like AwA) with people defending healers and explaining the role and people ripping apart healers and generalizing all of them as being not good. Never once was that idea mentioned by ZOS, nor was this a real issue that plagued typical healers, good or inexperienced, but it was repeated over and over, even after ZOS released a statement that said the healing changes were part of their efforts to improve performance. Ideas and words and opinions do have power. And I think all of the negative things said about healers during that time are still negatively impacting the perception of the role today.

Forum posts that say "nerf this" or "this MUST be changed" and whatnot, and then you go and read the description and it's obvious it's only a PvP perspective, or an issue with end game trials... they also drive me crazy. Because I just imagine these ideas catching on and being implemented blindly because the quick, easy headlines make it sound like it is an absolute problem across all aspects of the game (and a quick win to ZOS). And even if ZOS actually knows better, it gives them headlines and sound bytes to point to later.

That said, one should hope that companies would know their product well enough to understand the reasons behind the reasons that people say things. Like they should know that a lot of people just wanted account-wide titles. And they should know that a lot of their customers would want to retain character-specific data and they should have been prepared to address that concern on day 2, if not in the stream on the day of the release.

But there's a saying that the road to hell is paved to good intentions , and I also have seen just as many well-meaning employees de-rail projects and discussions as I have seen it be done by under-performing employees or ones who just enjoy stirring up trouble. So yes, anyone IN a conversation bears some responsibility for how it turns out, although the subject matter experts should carry more of it. And everyone should be a) careful what they wish for and b) exact and clear in how they express their wishes!

Not that most of you left still reading this thread really NEED the example, because you all get it , but here is one I'll give about a small piece of functionality I'd like to see added to the game - the ability to change hair color. I'd like it to be as easy to change as it is to change costumes or skins (in fact, when you really think about it, it's crazy that you can make your skin scaly or glowy or a completely different color but we can't change our HAIR). However if I just went around saying "let me change my hair color!" some folks might say "OK, we already have that; you can get an appearance change token." ZOS might look at this request and put the appearance change tokens on sale more often, or advertise them in their Twitter feed. But if I said "Please let us change hair color at the outfit station and save it as a setting in an outfit slot" or "Please add a 'wig' collectible that allows me to buy certain hair colors and apply them or hide them, like hats." Those are two very different requests. However I could say "let me change my hair color" over and over and people will draw their own conclusions as to what I mean and what I want. And then the narrative becomes muddled, unclear, or completely false.

I truly feel that, looking at the data and comments, that MOST people would have been happier with account-wide titles, and account-wide overview tab, and the ability to toggle on or off repeat achievement pop-ups and the character specific view. But everything has been boiled down to "AwA is great; everyone wants it; other games have it; you're crazy and old fashioned if you're against it." And worst of all, likely ZOS wants to do it for their own reasons and is now trying to tell us that THIS is what we wanted all along. It just... feels horrible.

tmbrinks

Just got an achievement on an alt... still got a rush when getting it. Too bad that feeling will be lost in 2 weeks

Jaraal

tmbrinks wrote: »

Just got an achievement on an alt... still got a rush when getting it. Too bad that feeling will be lost in 2 weeks

Well done! It's a shame such a fun and rewarding part of the game will soon be lost forever. But hey, there's a card game coming soon to make us forget all about it!

KaosWarMonk

tmbrinks wrote: »

Just got an achievement on an alt... still got a rush when getting it. Too bad that feeling will be lost in 2 weeks

^ Yeah exactly this.

Earning achievements on your toons is rewarding and the titles are the badge you get to wear for it. It's another way to customise your toons, give them character and give you bragging rights. Now every alt straight out of skipping the tutorial can be the Saviour of Tamriel... Woo.

The only reason for AWA I've seen from players thus far is still 'I don't want to have to grind xyz for this achievement again'. Yeah I may be biased but how does I don't want to do xyz (which is entirely optional) equate to removing something that a lot of other players do want to do?

And the db performance excuse just doesn't wash. Take the time to redesign the db properly then instead of doing a band aid solution. Never take something away unless you can give something better - as the previous 78 pages suggests this is not better.

spacefracking

tmbrinks wrote: »

Just got an achievement on an alt... still got a rush when getting it. Too bad that feeling will be lost in 2 weeks

That sucks man

Still hoping they change their mind with this inexplicable change