PTS Update 33 - Feedback Thread for Account Wide Achievements

deleted221106-002999 · February 2022

Public dungeon skill points are a separate character specific from inception of account-wide - it has the little blue head icon above it in the journal.

It's just the non-skill point public dungeon quest and bosses done that are account-wide.

So, yes you still get the skill point from completing that small part of the public dungeon.

DarcyMardin · February 2022

Comrade_Ogilvy wrote: »

Public dungeon skill points are a separate character specific from inception of account-wide - it has the little blue head icon above it in the journal.

It's just the non-skill point public dungeon quest and bosses done that are account-wide.

So, yes you still get the skill point from completing that small part of the public dungeon.

Whew! Thanks for checking! I was panicking at the thought of maybe losing all those juicy skill points!

SilverBride · February 2022

[deleted by poster]

tomofhyrule · February 2022

Ok, I searched through all of the achievements and listed out all 533 Delve/WB/World Event checkoff, quasi-museums, and Quest achievements. If this list were made character-specific, at least until they were proven to be safe and/or an alternate way of tracking them were found, then we wouldn't affect replayability on alts. Alts could then still explire the world and mark off the map as normal, have logical conversations with Melina Cassel and the like, and we won't have issues with Lerisa disappearing or Khamira getting too friendly with Euraxia.

I think it'll always be possible to make a character-specific achievement go account-wide once it's *proven* to be cleanly severed from all quest/etc. connections. But as we saw on PTS, if an achievement is account-wide to begin with, it can't just be swapped back without breaking everything with that achievement.

ZOS, please make these character-specific until you find your elegant solution so we can at least keep replayability on alts!

Exploration

Aldmeri Dominion
- Anarume Bounty Hunter
- Bandit Lord Bounty Hunter
- Barrow Trench Explorer
- Bewan Explorer
- Big Ozur’s Bane
- Black Vine Ruins Explorer
- Bone Grappler’s Bane
- Burroot Kwama Mine Explorer
- Carac Dena Explorer
- Claw’s Strike Explorer
- Dead Man’s Drop Explorer
- Deathsong Deforester
- Del’s Claim Devastator
- Drowned Horde Decimator
- Dugan’s Demolisher
- Entila’s Folly Explorer
- Fardir’s Folly Explorer
- Gathongor Hunter
- Ghost Captain Crusher
- Gravecaller’s Doom
- Green Vanquisher
- Gurzag’s Mine Explorer
- Harridan’s Lair Explorer
- Hoarvor Pit Explorer
- Jode’s Light Explorer
- King of the Hill
- Kuna’s Delve Explorer
- Marines Avenger
- Mehrunes’ Spite Explorer
- Mercy Killer
- Mobar Mine Explorer
- Monsoon Marauder
- Naril Nagaia Explorer
- Ne Salas Explorer
- Nestmother Eradicator
- Nur-dro’s Downfall
- Ondil Explorer
- Peacemaker
- Poacher Pounder
- Roots of Silvenar Explorer
- Rootwater’s Demise
- Scuttle Pit Explorer
- Sea Elf’s Woe
- Shael Ruins Explorer
- Shagura’s Doom
- Skooma Watch
- Skullbreaker
- Snapjaw’s Bane
- Spy Smasher
- Tallatta’s Annihilator
- Thibaut’s Cave Explorer
- Thugrub Dissector
- Tomb of the Apostates Explorer
- Underroot Explorer
- Valanir’s Bane
- Vinedeath Cave Explorer
- Wansalen Explorer
- Water Walloper
- Weeping Wind Cave Explorer
- Wormroot Depths Explorer
- Ysolmarr’s Ruin
- Zymel Chaser
Daggerfall Covenant
- Aldunz Ruins Explorer
- Asard’s Assassin
- Bearclaw Mine Explorer
- Bloodcaller’s Ruin
- Brood Queen Destroyer
- Coldrock Diggings Explorer
- Cousin Scrag’s Demolisher
- Crestshade Mine Explorer
- Crypt of the Exiles Explorer
- Cryptwatch Fort Explorer
- Darkblood Hunter
- Dayarrus’ Deathbringer
- Divad’s Chagrin Mine Explorer
- Duneripper’s Downfall
- Ebon Crypt Explorer
- Enduum Explorer
- Erokii Ruins Explorer
- Farangel’s Delve Explorer
- Flyleaf Catacombs Explorer
- Gar Xuu Gar’s Bane
- Graufang Hunter
- Hag Hunter
- Hag Upheaval
- Hatespinner Hunter
- Hildune’s Secret Refuge Explorer
- Ilessan Tower Explorer
- Klathzgar Explorer
- Koeglin Mine Explorer
- Korignah’s Bane
- Kruz Control
- Lich Buster
- Limbscather Slayer
- Lonely Papa’s Doom
- Menhir Hunter
- Mines of Khuras Explorer
- Mummy King Murderer
- Nomeg Hyril’s Executioner
- Norvulk Ruins Explorer
- Orc’s Finger Ruins Explorer
- Pariah Catacombs Explorer
- Potrdun Watch Explorer
- Rubble Butte Explorer
- Saint Slayer
- Sandblown Mine Explorer
- Santaki Ruins Explorer
- Silumm Explorer
- Siren Hunter
- Spider Slayer
- Stroda’s Assassin
- Summoner Slayer
- Titanclaw Cracker
- Torog’s Spite Explorer
- Trapjaw Stalker
- Tribulation Crypt Explorer
- Troll’s Toothpick Explorer
- Viridian Watch Explorer
- Werewolf’s Bane
- Wolf-Father Exorcist
- Woodblight Killer
- Yldzuun Ruins Explorer
Ebonheart Pact
- Abomination Slayer
- Ammabani Ambusher
- Armene’s Bane
- Atanaz Ruins Explorer
- Avanchnzel Explorer
- ***’s Tomb Explorer
- Beralagr Hunter
- Bittergreen Obliterator
- Black Maw Shrine Explorer
- Broken Helm Hollow Explorer
- Broken Tusk Explorer
- Captain Bones Destroyer
- Chid-Moska Ruins Explorer
- Chill Hollow Explorer
- Corpse Garden Explorer
- Dreugh Destroyer
- Druitularg’s Bane
- Emberflint Mine Explorer
- Faldar’s Tooth Explorer
- Fort Greenwall Explorer
- Frigid Grotto Explorer
- Frost Atronach Destroyer
- Gandranen Explorer
- Ghost Banisher
- Giant Slayer
- Haynekhtnamet Hunter
- Hightide Hollow Explorer
- Icehammer’s Vault Explorer
- Inner Sea Armature Explorer
- Khajiiti Hunters’ Bane
- Knife Ear Grotto Explorer
- Lady Llarel’s Shelter Explorer
- Lower Bthanual Explorer
- Mabrigash Shade Destroyer
- Mannskadi’s Mauler
- Memory Masher
- Mephala’s Nest Explorer
- Mummy Lord Murderer
- Netch Wrangler
- Ogre Twin Tormerntor
- Old Sord’s Cave Explorer
- Onkobra Kwama Mine Explorer
- Rageclaw Hunter
- Ratmaster Crusher
- Saintly Slaughter
- Sharpfang Killer
- Shellcracker
- Sheogorath’s Tongue Explorer
- Short-Tusk Hunter
- Shroud Heather Barrow Explorer
- Slave Lord’s Ruination
- Snapleg Cave Explorer
- Softloam Cavern Explorer
- Stormcrag Crypt Explorer
- Strifeswarm Eradicator
- Taleon’s Crag Explorer
- Triple Circle Mine Explorer
- Troll Killer
- Urrai’s Bane
- Wispmother Vanquisher
Coldharbour
- Aba-Loria Explorer
- Brolsgerbwd’s Bane
- Cave of Trophies Explorer
- Centurion’s Ruin
- Cynhamoth’s End
- Daedroth Trio Hunter
- Forgefire Vault Explorer
- Grotto of Depravity Explorer
- Ice Wraith Hunter
- Mal Sorra’s Tomb Explorer
- Stortha’s Doom
- Wailing Maw Explorer
Craglorn
- Anka-Ra Consecrationalist
- Anomalous Scholar
- Nirncrux Inspector
- Balamath Explorer
- Buried Sands Explorer
- Chiselshriek Mine Explorer
- Exarch’s Stronghold Explorer
- Fearfangs Cavern Explorer
- Haddock’s Market Explorer
- Hircine’s Haunt Explorer
- Ilthag’s Undertower Explorer
- Loth’Na Caverns Explorer
- Molavar Explorer
- Mtharnaz Explorer
- Rkhardahrk Explorer
- Rkundzelft Explorer
- Ruins of Kardala Explorer
- Serpent’s Nest Explorer
- The Howling Sepulchers Explorer
- Tombs of the Na-Totambu Explorer
- Zalgaz’s Den Explorer
- Earthly Possessions
Cyrodiil
- Bloodmayne Cave Explorer
- Breakneck Cave Explorer
- Capstone Cave Explorer
- Cracked Wood Cave Explorer
- Echo Cave Explorer
- Haynote Cave Explorer
- Kingscrest Cavern Explorer
- Lipsand Tarn Explorer
- Muck Valley Cavern Explorer
- Newt Cave Explorer
- Nisin Cave Explorer
- Pothole Caverns Explorer
- Quickwater Cave Explorer
- Red Ruby Cave Explorer
- Serpent Hollow Explorer
- Toadstool Hollow Explorer
- Underpall Cave Explorer
- Vahtacen Explorer
Dark Anchors
- Covenant Anchor Shatterer
- Dominion Anchor Shatterer
- Pact Anchor Shatterer
- Imperial Anchor Shatterer

Quests

Main Quest
- The Harborage
- Daughter of Giants
- Chasing Shadows
- Castle of the Worm
- The Tharn Speaks
- The Halls of Torment
- The Valley of Blades
- The Shadow of Sancre Tor
- Council of the Five Companions
- The God of Schemes
Aldmeri Dominion
- Maormer’s Bane
- Sunder the First Veil
- Sunder the Second Veil
- Sunder the Third Veil
- Hero of Falinesti
- Reliquary Retriever
- Southpoint Savior
- Court Ranger
- Valenwood Protector
- Veil Lifter
- Hero of Frond and Leaf
- Hound Hinderer
- Silvenar’s Friend
- Clan Mother Inaugurator
- Dark Mane Incarcerator
- Two Moons Pathwalker
Daggerfall Covenant
- Famed Recruiter
- Faolchu’s Bane
- Savior of Glenumbra
- Wyrd Friend
- Azura’s Ally
- Dreamslayer
- Spirit Warden Champion
- Hero of House Dorell
- Hero of House Tamrith
- Sword of Ravenwatch
- Alasan’s Devastation
- Ash’abah Hero
- Uwafa’s Ruination
- Bangkorai Garrison Liberator
- Evermore Defender
- High King Emeric’s Savior
Ebonheart Pact
- Hero of Bleakrock
- Balreth’s Bane
- General Serien’s Demise
- Sadal’s Overthrower
- Plague Ender
- Temple Knight
- Vox Slayer
- Egg Protector
- Mnemic Egg Guardian
- Skin-Stealer Destroyer
- Giant-Friend
- Skald-King’s Arrow
- Skald-King’s Salvation
- Reach Crusher
- Wormsquasher
- Ysgramor’s Prodigy
Coldharbour
- Guardian of the Great Mage
- Light of the Ayleid Kind
- Planemeld Sunderer

Blackwood

Exploration
- Undertow Cavern Explorer
- Bull-Fighter
- Xi-Tsei Explorer
- Doomvault Porcixid Explorer
- Arpenia Explorer
- Bloodrun Cave Explorer
- Vunalk Explorer
- Tongue Taker
- Sul-Xan Sacker
- Wart-Wacker
- Ruinach Ravager
- Trophy-Taker’s Taker
- Most Admired
- Enticed by Magic
Quests
- Leyawiin Mercenary
- Blackwood Investigator
- Ambition Acquirer
- Party Crasher
- Ambition’s Advocate
- Disaster Averter
- Daedric Dispeller

Greymoor

Exploration
- Beach Battler
- Blackreach Breacher
- Champion’s Champion
- Chillwind Depths Explorer
- Dragonhome Explorer
- Dwarven Disassembler
- Frozen Coast Explorer
- Giant Cheese Conoisseur
- Hunting the Hunters
- Midnight Barrow Explorer
- No Food For You
- Shades of Gray
- Shadowgreen Explorer
- The Scraps Explorer
Quests
- Friend to Fennorian
- Resolute Reconnoiter
- Threat Ender
- Skyrim Diplomat
- Mining Sample Collector
- Shieldthane of Morthal
- Swordthane of Karthwatch
- Titanborn’s Partner
- Assassin Assassinator
- Hero of the Holds
Harrowstorms
- Harrowstorm Chaser

Elsweyr

Exploration
- Abode of Ignominy Explorer
- Predator Mesa Explorer
- Desert Wind Caverns Explorer
- Tomb of the Serpents Explorer
- Darkpool Mine Explorer
- The Tangle Explorer
- Skullcracker
- Flattened the Nightmare Plateau
- Terror Bird Terminator
- Grave Guardian
- Sword Sunderer
- Red-Handed Vigilante
Quests
- Tharn’s Aide-de-Camp
- Precarious Parley
- Riverhold Defender
- Rimmen Revolution
- Assassination Cessation
- Betrayer Breaker
- Moonwalker
- Queenmaker

Summerset

Exploration
- King’s Haven Pass Explorer
- Eton Nir Grotto Explorer
- Archon’s Grove Explorer
- Tor-Hame-Khard Explorer
- Wasten Coraldale Explorer
- Traitor’s Vault Explorer
- Reef Raider
- Bucking the Matriarchy
- Sea Sload Slugger
- Talon Taker
- Amphibian Agitator
- Keel Hauler
- A Book and its Cover
Quests
- For the Queen
- Precious Pearl
- Mind Games
- Resolute Guardian
- Sweet Dreams
- Unreliable Narrator
- Enemy of my Enemy
- What Must Be Done
Abyssal Geysers
- Put a Cork In It

Morrowind

Exploration
- Ashalmawia Explorer
- Breaker of the Unbroken
- Cheater Defeater
- Consort Killer
- Khartag Point Explorer
- Matus-Akin Egg Mine Explorer
- Nchuleft Explorer
- Pulk Explorer
- Salothan’s Cursebreaker
- Songbird Silencer
- Wuyuvus Slayer
- Zainsipilu Explorer
Quests
- Ald’ruhn Annalist
- Bearer of the Blessed Staff
- Ebony Enforcer
- Hand of a Living God
- Hand of the Mistress
- Kwama Miner
- Narsis’s Apprentice
- Naryu’s Confidant
- Pilgrim Protector
- Rising Sun
- Scarlet Judge
- Voice of the Failed Incarnates

Deadlands

Exploration
- Brandfire Reformatory Explorer
- False Martyrs’ Folly Explorer
- Unmaker Unmaker
- Scorpion Stomper
Quests
- Stranger in Town
- Rat Catcher
- Deadlands Jailbreaker
- Deadlands Mountaineer
- Unmasker
- Hopeful Rescuer
- Ambition Collector
- Dagon Defier
- Eternal Optimist
- Friend to the Kalmur
- Spire Sleuth

Markarth

Exploration
- A Friend In Deed
- Briar Rock Ruins Explorer
- Gloomreach Explorer
- Master of Storms
- Offerings to the Old Spirits
- Weaned from Darkness
- Dynastor Deposed
Quests
- Crow-Eye Savior
- Lothid Clan Liberator
- Nowhere Beyond Your Reach
- Peered into the Abyss
- A Bridge Between Kingdoms
- Ravenwatch Ambassador
- Reach Ritualist
- Subterranean Scholar
- Taking up the Mantle
- Witness to Prophecy
- Nighthollow Explorer
- Protector of Markarth

Dragonhold

Exploration
- Forsaken Citadel Explorer
- Moonlit Cove Explorer
- End of the Exile
- Temple Guardian Terror
- A Hero’s Song
Quests
- A New Beginning
- Leaves on the Wind
- Lair Locator
- Khenarthi’s Guidance
- Infiltrating the New Moon
- Halls of the Highmane
- Return of the Dragonguard
- The Dragon’s Wrath
- Fall of the Dark Aeon
- Bright Moons over Elsweyr

Murkmire

Exploration
- Tsofeer Cavern Explorer
- Teeth of Sithis Explorer
- Fiend of the Fens
- Feller of Thunder
- Swamp Rescuer
- Surreptitiously Shadowed
Quests
- Cold Blood, Warm Heart
- The Progeny
- Traps and Treasures
- Seeker of the Lost
- Mysteries of the Remnant
- Sap-Sleeper
- Shadows of the Past
- To Chase a Dream
- The River of Rebirth

Clockwork City

Exploration
- Halls of Regulation Explorer
- Shadow Cleft Explorer
- Imperfection
- Murderer of Crows
Quests
- Land of Gears and Cogs
- Clockwork Citizen
- Smoke and Mirrors
- Middle-Man
- Birds of a Feather
- Shadow Boxing
- The Real Sotha Sil
- The Burden of Knowledge
- Fortune and Fate

Dark Brotherhood

Exploration
- Hrota Cave Explorer
- Garlas Agea Explorer
- Defeat Limenaruus
- Conquer the Kvatch Arena
- Lonely Sentinel
Quests
- First Blood
- Dark Initiate
- New-Blade
- Sermonizer Subduer
- Brethren Benefactor
- Assassin
- Dark Discovery
- Dark Investigator
- Wrath of Sithis
- Silencer

Thieves Guild

Exploration
- Bahraha’s Gloom Explorer
- Shark’s Teeth Grotto Explorer
- Deepest Shallows
- Cutting the Keel
Quests
- Welcome to the Thieves Guild
- Always Travel Separately
- Iron Wheel Infiltration
- Never, Ever Steal from the Guild
- Wedding Crashers
- Broken Wheel
- A Life Deferred
- Seeds Untilled
- What Price, Freedom?
- Loose Ends

Orsinium

Exploration
- Nikolvara’s Kennel Explorer
- Coldperch Cavern Explorer
- Argent Mine Explorer
- Thukozod’s Sanctum Explorer
- Watcher’s Hold Explorer
- Zthenganaz Explorer
- Echatere Executioner
- Dolmen Denied
- Regent Removed
- Winterborn Witherer
- Manage the Madness
- Challenge of the Centurion
Quests
- Kingmaker
- Orc King’s Councilor
- Orc King’s Marshal
- Orc King’s Conqueror

ZOS_GregoryV · February 2022

Greetings all!

After review, and removing a handful of comments, we would like to once again remind everyone that Bashing is a violation of the Community Rules, and is stated as follows:

Bashing and Slanderous Comments: We do not permit the bashing of individuals (including ZeniMax employees), groups, or other companies on our forums. We believe that doing so is neither constructive nor in spirit of our game and community.

We ask that all comments be kept civil, constructive, and within the rules. Should there be any questions in regards to the rules, please take a few moments to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

SirBedevere · February 2022

tomofhyrule wrote: »

ZOS, please make these character-specific until you find your elegant solution so we can at least keep replayability on alts!

If I counted right, 334 of those were Exploration / Zone Guide related. Wouldn't it be more efficient to just store a single hidden 0/1 value for each one of those exploration objectives on the character record or something, rather than keep the achievements for all of them character specific?

I read in the main feedback thread that @remosito said the achievements have way more data, like timestamps and progress values and stuff. By contrast, 334 binary digits seems like they would be negligible to load along with the rest of a character's stats at the load screen, and it would only increase by a handful of digits twice a year as new overland zones are introduced. Maybe that could be a good compromise to fix the Zone Guide while still achieving the performance benefits ZOS needs?

tomofhyrule · February 2022

SirBedevere wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

ZOS, please make these character-specific until you find your elegant solution so we can at least keep replayability on alts!

If I counted right, 334 of those were Exploration / Zone Guide related. Wouldn't it be more efficient to just store a single hidden 0/1 value for each one of those exploration objectives on the character record or something, rather than keep the achievements for all of them character specific?

I read in the main feedback thread that @remosito said the achievements have way more data, like timestamps and progress values and stuff. By contrast, 334 binary digits seems like they would be negligible to load along with the rest of a character's stats at the load screen, and it would only increase by a handful of digits twice a year as new overland zones are introduced. Maybe that could be a good compromise to fix the Zone Guide while still achieving the performance benefits ZOS needs?

It would be a much simpler and data-efficient way to do it. The only problem is that that binary doesn't exist in game. And until it does, the achievement is the only way it's tracked.

I'll admit, I'm not a fan of this 'most achievements are account-wide but some are not' thing that's going on. If we're going to do account-wide, then do it all the way. But the ones that are currently not account-wide are not because of a reason - MA and the public dungeons are because the achievement also grants the skill point, the rune translations are tracked by achievement, etc.

In order to properly go from Character-specific to Acoount-wide, all connections need to be severed, or else we end up with issues like the museums (or Melina Cassel, or the map completion, or...). That said, I'd hope that they would be able to eventually fully divorce achievements from all tracking so this could be cleaner and less confusing. But as possible as it would be to go from character to account later once an achievement was proven to be clean, we've seen that going account to character is not possible.

Making a lot of potential problems into character-specific at least gives ZOS a bit of a safety net so there aren't problems like was saw this week on PTS.

SirBedevere · February 2022

tomofhyrule wrote: »

SirBedevere wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

ZOS, please make these character-specific until you find your elegant solution so we can at least keep replayability on alts!

If I counted right, 334 of those were Exploration / Zone Guide related. Wouldn't it be more efficient to just store a single hidden 0/1 value for each one of those exploration objectives on the character record or something, rather than keep the achievements for all of them character specific?

I read in the main feedback thread that @remosito said the achievements have way more data, like timestamps and progress values and stuff. By contrast, 334 binary digits seems like they would be negligible to load along with the rest of a character's stats at the load screen, and it would only increase by a handful of digits twice a year as new overland zones are introduced. Maybe that could be a good compromise to fix the Zone Guide while still achieving the performance benefits ZOS needs?

It would be a much simpler and data-efficient way to do it. The only problem is that that binary doesn't exist in game. And until it does, the achievement is the only way it's tracked.

Right, but I was just suggesting a fix. I mean, there's already code that runs when we log in, copying achievement progress from the character to the account. Why not set the Zone Guide binary data on the character at the same time? Seems like it would be a fairly trivial fix for a talented programmer, no?

I guess the real work would be going through the code for each one of those 334 zone guide objectives and updating it to use the binary data, but even though tedious, it should still probably be only a few hours' work for anyone who can copy/paste and change one index number, right? I've done spreadsheet work before, and this doesn't seem too different.

tomofhyrule · February 2022

SirBedevere wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

SirBedevere wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

ZOS, please make these character-specific until you find your elegant solution so we can at least keep replayability on alts!

If I counted right, 334 of those were Exploration / Zone Guide related. Wouldn't it be more efficient to just store a single hidden 0/1 value for each one of those exploration objectives on the character record or something, rather than keep the achievements for all of them character specific?

I read in the main feedback thread that @remosito said the achievements have way more data, like timestamps and progress values and stuff. By contrast, 334 binary digits seems like they would be negligible to load along with the rest of a character's stats at the load screen, and it would only increase by a handful of digits twice a year as new overland zones are introduced. Maybe that could be a good compromise to fix the Zone Guide while still achieving the performance benefits ZOS needs?

It would be a much simpler and data-efficient way to do it. The only problem is that that binary doesn't exist in game. And until it does, the achievement is the only way it's tracked.

Right, but I was just suggesting a fix. I mean, there's already code that runs when we log in, copying achievement progress from the character to the account. Why not set the Zone Guide binary data on the character at the same time? Seems like it would be a fairly trivial fix for a talented programmer, no?

I guess the real work would be going through the code for each one of those 334 zone guide objectives and updating it to use the binary data, but even though tedious, it should still probably be only a few hours' work for anyone who can copy/paste and change one index number, right? I've done spreadsheet work before, and this doesn't seem too different.

I completely agree. And all of the things that may link to those quest achievements should also be tied to the quest stages in the journal instead of the achievements as well.

I only think that the easiest thing for ZOS to do now is just set those achievements to characters while they build this binary map flag structure and check for vestigial quest/achievement links. This patch needs to undergo Stadia certification by Monday, so even if it would be a quick job for someone, a flagger is still a new system that would need to be tested. Changing achievements is tested and will work as a bandaid fix until the flagger system is set up. Once the flagger exists and the quest links are verified, that's another 533 achievements that they can put back to account-wide. After all, as much as we care about the history of our characters, I can't imagine anyone needs to get the full history of what date each of their characters cleared the Frigid Grotto delve.

They even said in the patch notes that a more elegant solution was being investigated. That flagger would be a more elegant system, but it needs to be implemented.

WiseSky · February 2022

Can we have a CheckMark next to Achievements so we can check them off and on if we want them to be Used by NPCs to treat us as such?

For example If I Uncheck Achievements for Finishing Auridon Zone, NPC wont greet me as such as I finished the zone?

matterandstuff · February 2022

ZOS_GregoryV wrote: »

Greetings all!

After review, and removing a handful of comments, we would like to once again remind everyone that Bashing is a violation of the Community Rules, and is stated as follows:
Bashing and Slanderous Comments: We do not permit the bashing of individuals (including ZeniMax employees), groups, or other companies on our forums. We believe that doing so is neither constructive nor in spirit of our game and community.

We ask that all comments be kept civil, constructive, and within the rules. Should there be any questions in regards to the rules, please take a few moments to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

This ZOS PR disaster with the community is really not being helped by the fact that 98% of the communication we've had from ZOS has been these posts.

Nemezijus · February 2022

matterandstuff wrote: »

ZOS_GregoryV wrote: »

Greetings all!

After review, and removing a handful of comments, we would like to once again remind everyone that Bashing is a violation of the Community Rules, and is stated as follows:
Bashing and Slanderous Comments: We do not permit the bashing of individuals (including ZeniMax employees), groups, or other companies on our forums. We believe that doing so is neither constructive nor in spirit of our game and community.

We ask that all comments be kept civil, constructive, and within the rules. Should there be any questions in regards to the rules, please take a few moments to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

This ZOS PR disaster with the community is really not being helped by the fact that 98% of the communication we've had from ZOS has been these posts.

No need to be mad at forum moderators who have nothing to do with game development and implementation. They are just trying to keep the place civil and people on topic rather than derailing.

karthrag_inak · February 2022

Comrade_Ogilvy wrote: »

Public dungeon skill points are a separate character specific from inception of account-wide - it has the little blue head icon above it in the journal.

It's just the non-skill point public dungeon quest and bosses done that are account-wide.

So, yes you still get the skill point from completing that small part of the public dungeon.

Wait - so one cannot redo the quests for the public dungeons on alts? That's terrible - why even return to them?

OleandersOne · February 2022

Nemezijus wrote: »

matterandstuff wrote: »

This ZOS PR disaster with the community is really not being helped by the fact that 98% of the communication we've had from ZOS has been these posts.

No need to be mad at forum moderators who have nothing to do with game development and implementation. They are just trying to keep the place civil and people on topic rather than derailing.

This is the place that Zos has provided for our feedback, we have every right to express our views here, as long as they are not personal, baiting, etc. The comment you quoted here is none of those things, doesn't read as "mad" at the mod or any such thing, but rather a factual statement. It is true - apart from Gina's Q&A, these moderation comments have been the only communication. Notice that I'm not saying that the mod comments haven't been justified, just that the comment you quote is pretty much correct.

Zezin · February 2022

karthrag_inak wrote: »

Comrade_Ogilvy wrote: »

Public dungeon skill points are a separate character specific from inception of account-wide - it has the little blue head icon above it in the journal.

It's just the non-skill point public dungeon quest and bosses done that are account-wide.

So, yes you still get the skill point from completing that small part of the public dungeon.

Wait - so one cannot redo the quests for the public dungeons on alts? That's terrible - why even return to them?

You can do the quests on as many alts as you want, the only thing you won't be able to do is get the achievement multiple times except for the skill point achievement as that is character specific.

Mephit · February 2022

I had an exchange earlier with some people in an ESO Facebook group. They don’t have a clue what is coming.

One person said they trust ZOS and have faith they will sort this out, and that the release isn’t even live yet…

Another person said it’ll be ok cos they’ll probably do something similar to WOW.

I told them to check the PTS / forums but they won’t…

I genuinely think most people assume AWA will be something new, and are oblivious / ignorant of what is coming.

karthrag_inak · February 2022

Zezin wrote: »

karthrag_inak wrote: »

Comrade_Ogilvy wrote: »

Public dungeon skill points are a separate character specific from inception of account-wide - it has the little blue head icon above it in the journal.

It's just the non-skill point public dungeon quest and bosses done that are account-wide.

So, yes you still get the skill point from completing that small part of the public dungeon.

Wait - so one cannot redo the quests for the public dungeons on alts? That's terrible - why even return to them?

You can do the quests on as many alts as you want, the only thing you won't be able to do is get the achievement multiple times except for the skill point achievement as that is character specific.

Oh, ok, thank you for clarifying. This one was quite worried.

It would be great if an official statement spelled out what will and will not be affected by this change. Some elements are kind of confusing.

Zezin · February 2022

Mephit wrote: »

I had an exchange earlier with some people in an ESO Facebook group. They don’t have a clue what is coming.

One person said they trust ZOS and have faith they will sort this out, and that the release isn’t even live yet…

Another person said it’ll be ok cos they’ll probably do something similar to WOW.

I told them to check the PTS / forums but they won’t…

I genuinely think most people assume AWA will be something new, and are oblivious / ignorant of what is coming.

A lot of people I know, know what is coming, most are either ok with it, excited or only have minor reservations about it. Truthof things is most of those people don't have a reason to complain here at the forums and so you don't see them much, negative reactions are much easier to gather than positive ones, that's just how people work.

OleandersOne · February 2022

Zezin wrote: »

Mephit wrote: »

I had an exchange earlier with some people in an ESO Facebook group. They don’t have a clue what is coming.

One person said they trust ZOS and have faith they will sort this out, and that the release isn’t even live yet…

Another person said it’ll be ok cos they’ll probably do something similar to WOW.

I told them to check the PTS / forums but they won’t…

I genuinely think most people assume AWA will be something new, and are oblivious / ignorant of what is coming.

A lot of people I know, know what is coming, most are either ok with it, excited or only have minor reservations about it. Truthof things is most of those people don't have a reason to complain here at the forums and so you don't see them much, negative reactions are much easier to gather than positive ones, that's just how people work.

And I know many, many people who are not OK with it, and who have not commented here, because they've simply given up, after hearing the facts of that matter. It does tend to be a matter of perspective.

deleted221106-002999 · February 2022

karthrag_inak wrote: »

Comrade_Ogilvy wrote: »

Public dungeon skill points are a separate character specific from inception of account-wide - it has the little blue head icon above it in the journal.

It's just the non-skill point public dungeon quest and bosses done that are account-wide.

So, yes you still get the skill point from completing that small part of the public dungeon.

Wait - so one cannot redo the quests for the public dungeons on alts? That's terrible - why even return to them?

The achievement for the quest is account-wide and the public dungeon will show as complete on subsequent characters who approach it (map). Without entering, unless you keep some external log or have a good memory, you won't know which of your characters has done it.

In short, there's little to no point entering delves/public dungeons on other characters except to collect the skyshard (for skill points) or the skill point 'group quest' for public dungeons.

Which, of course, points very directly and purposefully towards the crown store to short-cut the drudge.

Kesstryl · February 2022

Mix wrote: »

While I agree with many of the feedback suggestions here (character specific data kept and so on) I think just ONE thing MUST be fixed before this goes Live:

Achievements must be unlinked from npc dialogue and quests.

The game must no longer "check" if a character has done an achievement, but rather if they have completed a quest (from a hidden database we don't see in-game) to see what npc dialogue choices are, to determine what we see in areas that change with quest progression and even to see if we are eligible for certain quests.

People are correct, for the current live version, that you can play the game and never open the achievements and everything is good. However, with this update that actually changes and achievements completed on another character DO impact your other characters and how they interact with the world/the world interacts with them. It is imperative that the game does NOT check achievements for anything except purchasing things that require achievements like furniture and houses.

Achievements must be unlinked from ALL npc dialogue choices and quests!

It seems to be that could be an enormous task. There is no way for testers to catch every single bug related to achievements being linked to quests and dialogue. ZOS it is perfectly acceptable to admit you bit off more than you can chew with this update and postpone the AwA until it is possible to go through and unlink everything. (and maybe consider some of the other feedback too!) You can have a patch between this update and the chapter. We won't mind. We prefer if you took your time to do it correctly. Otherwise, the day this launches you actually will break parts of the game for players who have never cared about achievements, which I think is completely unfair. A part of the game some players ignore will negatively impact their experience and that is just wrong.

(for the rest of us who love achievements you have this entire thread full of feedback and constructive criticism and suggestions)

From here on out, this is what I'm going to be the squeaky wheel over. I can accept the loss of individual character data, as much as I hate it, for whatever reasons, but I will stand my ground here with Mix on this non-negotiable point. NPCs and quests must be decoupled from achievements before this goes live. If that means delaying the update to properly do this, then get it done. I don't care if the world goes silent and I don't hear another blurb about the Planemeld or how the dead came back in Markath until the devs can safely reconnect those NPC reactions to completed quests. I don't want the game world to suddenly become the playground of Sheogorath! My characters deserve to quest, and I mean have access to ALL quests, in a coherent game world. This is where I stand, this is where the game succeeds or fails for me. This is what I will renew or not renew my sub over. Other players deserve to have the same thing, all alts having access to all quests in a coherent game world.

edited for clarity

Tandor · February 2022

Zezin wrote: »

Mephit wrote: »

I had an exchange earlier with some people in an ESO Facebook group. They don’t have a clue what is coming.

One person said they trust ZOS and have faith they will sort this out, and that the release isn’t even live yet…

Another person said it’ll be ok cos they’ll probably do something similar to WOW.

I told them to check the PTS / forums but they won’t…

I genuinely think most people assume AWA will be something new, and are oblivious / ignorant of what is coming.

A lot of people I know, know what is coming, most are either ok with it, excited or only have minor reservations about it. Truth of things is most of those people don't have a reason to complain here at the forums and so you don't see them much, negative reactions are much easier to gather than positive ones, that's just how people work.

Do they know the form in which it is coming, or are you simply reporting the number of people who are saying "Great, I'm so excited that account-wide achievements are coming" without knowing anything about the present implementation on PTS?

SilverBride · February 2022

Comrade_Ogilvy wrote: »

karthrag_inak wrote: »

Wait - so one cannot redo the quests for the public dungeons on alts? That's terrible - why even return to them?

The achievement for the quest is account-wide and the public dungeon will show as complete on subsequent characters who approach it (map). Without entering, unless you keep some external log or have a good memory, you won't know which of your characters has done it.

Is there some other way these bosses can be tracked other than with achievements? Something that would make the bosses in these places not show as complete on the map until that particular character has completed them themselves?

deleted221106-002999 · February 2022

Tandor wrote: »

Zezin wrote: »

Mephit wrote: »

I had an exchange earlier with some people in an ESO Facebook group. They don’t have a clue what is coming.

One person said they trust ZOS and have faith they will sort this out, and that the release isn’t even live yet…

Another person said it’ll be ok cos they’ll probably do something similar to WOW.

I told them to check the PTS / forums but they won’t…

I genuinely think most people assume AWA will be something new, and are oblivious / ignorant of what is coming.

A lot of people I know, know what is coming, most are either ok with it, excited or only have minor reservations about it. Truth of things is most of those people don't have a reason to complain here at the forums and so you don't see them much, negative reactions are much easier to gather than positive ones, that's just how people work.

Do they know the form in which it is coming, or are you simply reporting the number of people who are saying "Great, I'm so excited that account-wide achievements are coming" without knowing anything about the present implementation on PTS?

An important distinction.

My own anecdotal experience is that many are quite keen on the idea of account-wide achievements but, once they discover it means destroying most of the character specifics and makes a mess of replaying content on other characters then intitial enthusiasm drops sharpy into the negative, fiery expletive zone.

In addition, once they learn that account-wide doesn't mean the things they really thought it meant and wanted (eg account wide motifs, recipes etc) the fury bounds on the thermonuclear.

It's kind of surreal: almost everyone is ok with account-wide achievements but absolutely NOT done like this.

Saieden · February 2022

Kesstryl wrote: »

Mix wrote: »

While I agree with many of the feedback suggestions here (character specific data kept and so on) I think just ONE thing MUST be fixed before this goes Live:

Achievements must be unlinked from npc dialogue and quests.

The game must no longer "check" if a character has done an achievement, but rather if they have completed a quest (from a hidden database we don't see in-game) to see what npc dialogue choices are, to determine what we see in areas that change with quest progression and even to see if we are eligible for certain quests.

People are correct, for the current live version, that you can play the game and never open the achievements and everything is good. However, with this update that actually changes and achievements completed on another character DO impact your other characters and how they interact with the world/the world interacts with them. It is imperative that the game does NOT check achievements for anything except purchasing things that require achievements like furniture and houses.

Achievements must be unlinked from ALL npc dialogue choices and quests!

It seems to be that could be an enormous task. There is no way for testers to catch every single bug related to achievements being linked to quests and dialogue. ZOS it is perfectly acceptable to admit you bit off more than you can chew with this update and postpone the AwA until it is possible to go through and unlink everything. (and maybe consider some of the other feedback too!) You can have a patch between this update and the chapter. We won't mind. We prefer if you took your time to do it correctly. Otherwise, the day this launches you actually will break parts of the game for players who have never cared about achievements, which I think is completely unfair. A part of the game some players ignore will negatively impact their experience and that is just wrong.

(for the rest of us who love achievements you have this entire thread full of feedback and constructive criticism and suggestions)

From here on out, this is what I'm going to be the squeaky wheel over. I can accept the loss of individual character data, as much as I hate it, for whatever reasons, but I will stand my ground here with Mix on this non-negotiable point. NPCs and quests must be decoupled from achievements before this goes live. If that means delaying the update to properly do this, then get it done. I don't care if the world goes silent and I don't hear another blurb about the Planemeld or how the dead came back in Markath until the devs can safely reconnect those NPC reactions to completed quests. I don't want the game world to suddenly become the playground of Sheogorath! My characters deserve to quest, and I mean have access to ALL quests, in a coherent game world. This is where I stand, this is where the game succeeds or fails for me. This is what I will renew or not renew my sub over. Other players deserve to have the same thing, all alts having access to all quests in a coherent game world.

edited for clarity

For me, I dont care about what quests I've done on what character. I've long since stopped caring about side quests, though did/will want to zone quests at least once, for the story. I do these with my wife, exclusivey, and I dont care which character I do them on, I'll do them on whichever I feel like or who needs the skill points even. It doesn't matter all that much to me.

However, in the same vein, it absolutely mattered to me which dungeon and trial achievements I had completed on my dps, healer and newly made tank. My goal was to learn and progress veteran content, to at least hm clears, on all 3 roles to become a "complete" player and ultimately be able to lead with insight and experience from all perspectives of my team, whether in pugs or organized groups.

Even though I have known all along I may not ever be able to actually achieve this goal, it is what motivated me to be involved in this game. This was the account wide achievement I was working towards and everything that has transpired over the last few weeks has said to me "ZoS doesn't care the slightest about your goals and the tools you use measure their progress." I will not, and cannot, accept this now being removed after 18 months of progress. I have a full time job, and I value my time enough that keeping spreadsheets to do what I can already do easily in game, on top of all the grinding and maintenance present to keep up, is a deal breaker.

This game is advertised as "play the way you want", and the way I want is being nerfed into the ground and I would have to to take more of my precious time to make up for it, while still paying hard cash (let's face it, without Plus, this game is unplayable in any serious fashion. I don't have a problem with this, fundamentally). No. I just won't.

"But you're just one player! Others don't care!" I hear you say. Well, firstly, every roleplayer in the game is 9/10 using achievements in a similar function (tracking at character level) , just with different content. But that's not all. Virtually every raid guild is using the system to track the progress of their up and coming end game players in exactly the way I am for myself. How much time do you think those people have IRL to dedicate sorting through who should be allowed to sign up for Craglorns or vet Cloudrest +2? At what point is it too much for an already incredibly time consuming hobby that they pay real money to participate in? And even if they don't quit the game outright, how do you think it will look to guild members when they quit leading, and newer would-be leaders see the same problem and don't want to deal with this kind admin friction that the developers deliberately put into the game?

wenchmore420b14_ESO · February 2022

Zezin wrote: »

karthrag_inak wrote: »

Comrade_Ogilvy wrote: »

Public dungeon skill points are a separate character specific from inception of account-wide - it has the little blue head icon above it in the journal.

It's just the non-skill point public dungeon quest and bosses done that are account-wide.

So, yes you still get the skill point from completing that small part of the public dungeon.

Wait - so one cannot redo the quests for the public dungeons on alts? That's terrible - why even return to them?

You can do the quests on as many alts as you want, the only thing you won't be able to do is get the achievement multiple times except for the skill point achievement as that is character specific.

Except there ARE quests that lock areas after completion. These are still not replayable on current PTS.
And this is about more than just doing quests. Exploration, stortlines, NPC responses, etc.
Again, this is not that simple.

Kesstryl · February 2022

Saieden wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

Mix wrote: »

While I agree with many of the feedback suggestions here (character specific data kept and so on) I think just ONE thing MUST be fixed before this goes Live:

Achievements must be unlinked from npc dialogue and quests.

The game must no longer "check" if a character has done an achievement, but rather if they have completed a quest (from a hidden database we don't see in-game) to see what npc dialogue choices are, to determine what we see in areas that change with quest progression and even to see if we are eligible for certain quests.

People are correct, for the current live version, that you can play the game and never open the achievements and everything is good. However, with this update that actually changes and achievements completed on another character DO impact your other characters and how they interact with the world/the world interacts with them. It is imperative that the game does NOT check achievements for anything except purchasing things that require achievements like furniture and houses.

Achievements must be unlinked from ALL npc dialogue choices and quests!

It seems to be that could be an enormous task. There is no way for testers to catch every single bug related to achievements being linked to quests and dialogue. ZOS it is perfectly acceptable to admit you bit off more than you can chew with this update and postpone the AwA until it is possible to go through and unlink everything. (and maybe consider some of the other feedback too!) You can have a patch between this update and the chapter. We won't mind. We prefer if you took your time to do it correctly. Otherwise, the day this launches you actually will break parts of the game for players who have never cared about achievements, which I think is completely unfair. A part of the game some players ignore will negatively impact their experience and that is just wrong.

(for the rest of us who love achievements you have this entire thread full of feedback and constructive criticism and suggestions)

From here on out, this is what I'm going to be the squeaky wheel over. I can accept the loss of individual character data, as much as I hate it, for whatever reasons, but I will stand my ground here with Mix on this non-negotiable point. NPCs and quests must be decoupled from achievements before this goes live. If that means delaying the update to properly do this, then get it done. I don't care if the world goes silent and I don't hear another blurb about the Planemeld or how the dead came back in Markath until the devs can safely reconnect those NPC reactions to completed quests. I don't want the game world to suddenly become the playground of Sheogorath! My characters deserve to quest, and I mean have access to ALL quests, in a coherent game world. This is where I stand, this is where the game succeeds or fails for me. This is what I will renew or not renew my sub over. Other players deserve to have the same thing, all alts having access to all quests in a coherent game world.

edited for clarity

For me, I dont care about what quests I've done on what character. I've long since stopped caring about side quests, though did/will want to zone quests at least once, for the story. I do these with my wife, exclusivey, and I dont care which character I do them on, I'll do them on whichever I feel like or who needs the skill points even. It doesn't matter all that much to me.

However, in the same vein, it absolutely mattered to me which dungeon and trial achievements I had completed on my dps, healer and newly made tank. My goal was to learn and progress veteran content, to at least hm clears, on all 3 roles to become a "complete" player and ultimately be able to lead with insight and experience from all perspectives of my team, whether in pugs or organized groups.

Even though I have known all along I may not ever be able to actually achieve this goal, it is what motivated me to be involved in this game. This was the account wide achievement I was working towards and everything that has transpired over the last few weeks has said to me "ZoS doesn't care the slightest about your goals and the tools you use measure their progress." I will not, and cannot, accept this now being removed after 18 months of progress. I have a full time job, and I value my time enough that keeping spreadsheets to do what I can already do easily in game, on top of all the grinding and maintenance present to keep up, is a deal breaker.

This game is advertised as "play the way you want", and the way I want is being nerfed into the ground and I would have to to take more of my precious time to make up for it, while still paying hard cash (let's face it, without Plus, this game is unplayable in any serious fashion. I don't have a problem with this, fundamentally). No. I just won't.

"But you're just one player! Others don't care!" I hear you say. Well, firstly, every roleplayer in the game is 9/10 using achievements in a similar function (tracking at character level) , just with different content. But that's not all. Virtually every raid guild is using the system to track the progress of their up and coming end game players in exactly the way I am for myself. How much time do you think those people have IRL to dedicate sorting through who should be allowed to sign up for Craglorns or vet Cloudrest +2? At what point is it too much for an already incredibly time consuming hobby that they pay real money to participate in? And even if they don't quit the game outright, how do you think it will look to guild members when they quit leading, and newer would-be leaders see the same problem and don't want to deal with this kind admin friction that the developers deliberately put into the game?

I totally agree with you on the character tracking. I didn't want this either. I would have preferred AwA given on top of individual character tracking, NOT taking away individual character achievements to be replaced by AwA. At this point, AwA is set in stone and it is coming, and they will not keep character based achievements or tracking because of database size. I'm letting ZOS know that if I have to put up with this, here's where I draw the line. For my play style the quests and stories are what motivate me to log in. Definitely keep posting your feedback and what draws the line for you. At this point, I'm not sure if we are being heard and they're just leaving this thread open for us to vent, but people need to continue to be loud and clear on where our tolerance ends what draws the line for us. If losing character tracking and achievements is where your tolerance ends, I support you in stating that.

wenchmore420b14_ESO · February 2022

Kesstryl wrote: »

Saieden wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

Mix wrote: »

While I agree with many of the feedback suggestions here (character specific data kept and so on) I think just ONE thing MUST be fixed before this goes Live:

Achievements must be unlinked from npc dialogue and quests.

The game must no longer "check" if a character has done an achievement, but rather if they have completed a quest (from a hidden database we don't see in-game) to see what npc dialogue choices are, to determine what we see in areas that change with quest progression and even to see if we are eligible for certain quests.

People are correct, for the current live version, that you can play the game and never open the achievements and everything is good. However, with this update that actually changes and achievements completed on another character DO impact your other characters and how they interact with the world/the world interacts with them. It is imperative that the game does NOT check achievements for anything except purchasing things that require achievements like furniture and houses.

Achievements must be unlinked from ALL npc dialogue choices and quests!

It seems to be that could be an enormous task. There is no way for testers to catch every single bug related to achievements being linked to quests and dialogue. ZOS it is perfectly acceptable to admit you bit off more than you can chew with this update and postpone the AwA until it is possible to go through and unlink everything. (and maybe consider some of the other feedback too!) You can have a patch between this update and the chapter. We won't mind. We prefer if you took your time to do it correctly. Otherwise, the day this launches you actually will break parts of the game for players who have never cared about achievements, which I think is completely unfair. A part of the game some players ignore will negatively impact their experience and that is just wrong.

(for the rest of us who love achievements you have this entire thread full of feedback and constructive criticism and suggestions)

From here on out, this is what I'm going to be the squeaky wheel over. I can accept the loss of individual character data, as much as I hate it, for whatever reasons, but I will stand my ground here with Mix on this non-negotiable point. NPCs and quests must be decoupled from achievements before this goes live. If that means delaying the update to properly do this, then get it done. I don't care if the world goes silent and I don't hear another blurb about the Planemeld or how the dead came back in Markath until the devs can safely reconnect those NPC reactions to completed quests. I don't want the game world to suddenly become the playground of Sheogorath! My characters deserve to quest, and I mean have access to ALL quests, in a coherent game world. This is where I stand, this is where the game succeeds or fails for me. This is what I will renew or not renew my sub over. Other players deserve to have the same thing, all alts having access to all quests in a coherent game world.

edited for clarity

For me, I dont care about what quests I've done on what character. I've long since stopped caring about side quests, though did/will want to zone quests at least once, for the story. I do these with my wife, exclusivey, and I dont care which character I do them on, I'll do them on whichever I feel like or who needs the skill points even. It doesn't matter all that much to me.

However, in the same vein, it absolutely mattered to me which dungeon and trial achievements I had completed on my dps, healer and newly made tank. My goal was to learn and progress veteran content, to at least hm clears, on all 3 roles to become a "complete" player and ultimately be able to lead with insight and experience from all perspectives of my team, whether in pugs or organized groups.

Even though I have known all along I may not ever be able to actually achieve this goal, it is what motivated me to be involved in this game. This was the account wide achievement I was working towards and everything that has transpired over the last few weeks has said to me "ZoS doesn't care the slightest about your goals and the tools you use measure their progress." I will not, and cannot, accept this now being removed after 18 months of progress. I have a full time job, and I value my time enough that keeping spreadsheets to do what I can already do easily in game, on top of all the grinding and maintenance present to keep up, is a deal breaker.

This game is advertised as "play the way you want", and the way I want is being nerfed into the ground and I would have to to take more of my precious time to make up for it, while still paying hard cash (let's face it, without Plus, this game is unplayable in any serious fashion. I don't have a problem with this, fundamentally). No. I just won't.

"But you're just one player! Others don't care!" I hear you say. Well, firstly, every roleplayer in the game is 9/10 using achievements in a similar function (tracking at character level) , just with different content. But that's not all. Virtually every raid guild is using the system to track the progress of their up and coming end game players in exactly the way I am for myself. How much time do you think those people have IRL to dedicate sorting through who should be allowed to sign up for Craglorns or vet Cloudrest +2? At what point is it too much for an already incredibly time consuming hobby that they pay real money to participate in? And even if they don't quit the game outright, how do you think it will look to guild members when they quit leading, and newer would-be leaders see the same problem and don't want to deal with this kind admin friction that the developers deliberately put into the game?

I totally agree with you on the character tracking. I didn't want this either. I would have preferred AwA given on top of individual character tracking, NOT taking away individual character achievements to be replaced by AwA. At this point, AwA is set in stone and it is coming, and they will not keep character based achievements or tracking because of database size. I'm letting ZOS know that if I have to put up with this, here's where I draw the line. For my play style the quests and stories are what motivate me to log in. Definitely keep posting your feedback and what draws the line for you. At this point, I'm not sure if we are being heard and they're just leaving this thread open for us to vent, but people need to continue to be loud and clear on where our tolerance ends what draws the line for us. If losing character tracking and achievements is where your tolerance ends, I support you in stating that.

I remember when they added 3rd person view, no trader kiosks, when Vet went to CP, when Craglorn was new, and pre T1.
I have always just been patient and just "Wait & See". Some changes I really didn't want, some I did. If needed I adapted.
But I found this week, that my play style won't just change AFTER UD33, but has changed now.
I use my alts for crafting writs. As I go through them now, it's like saying goodbye. One alt got Master Blacksmith the other day, and I was like "Oh Cool!" then I was "Oh wait..:(".
I have a new character that I took time to write a full back story and character arch that I was looking forward to playing pure vanilla. Not so much now.

I will log in on UD launch, just to explain to my guildies and friends what is going on as many in game doesn't know what's really coming. And even in worst case scenario, I will still log in to take care of Guild Hall, bid on traders, etc, because I care about my guildies.
BUT, the UD will go live 3/14. My sub that I have kept EVERY month since March 2014, will expire 3/25.
I will log on and "See myself" how it affects me and mine. I will take that 10 days to decide if I renew it or use that $ elsewhere.
My 2 drakes...
Huzzah!

alberichtano · February 2022

Kesstryl wrote: »

Mix wrote: »

While I agree with many of the feedback suggestions here (character specific data kept and so on) I think just ONE thing MUST be fixed before this goes Live:

Achievements must be unlinked from npc dialogue and quests.

The game must no longer "check" if a character has done an achievement, but rather if they have completed a quest (from a hidden database we don't see in-game) to see what npc dialogue choices are, to determine what we see in areas that change with quest progression and even to see if we are eligible for certain quests.

People are correct, for the current live version, that you can play the game and never open the achievements and everything is good. However, with this update that actually changes and achievements completed on another character DO impact your other characters and how they interact with the world/the world interacts with them. It is imperative that the game does NOT check achievements for anything except purchasing things that require achievements like furniture and houses.

Achievements must be unlinked from ALL npc dialogue choices and quests!

It seems to be that could be an enormous task. There is no way for testers to catch every single bug related to achievements being linked to quests and dialogue. ZOS it is perfectly acceptable to admit you bit off more than you can chew with this update and postpone the AwA until it is possible to go through and unlink everything. (and maybe consider some of the other feedback too!) You can have a patch between this update and the chapter. We won't mind. We prefer if you took your time to do it correctly. Otherwise, the day this launches you actually will break parts of the game for players who have never cared about achievements, which I think is completely unfair. A part of the game some players ignore will negatively impact their experience and that is just wrong.

(for the rest of us who love achievements you have this entire thread full of feedback and constructive criticism and suggestions)

From here on out, this is what I'm going to be the squeaky wheel over. I can accept the loss of individual character data, as much as I hate it, for whatever reasons, but I will stand my ground here with Mix on this non-negotiable point. NPCs and quests must be decoupled from achievements before this goes live. If that means delaying the update to properly do this, then get it done. I don't care if the world goes silent and I don't hear another blurb about the Planemeld or how the dead came back in Markath until the devs can safely reconnect those NPC reactions to completed quests. I don't want the game world to suddenly become the playground of Sheogorath! My characters deserve to quest, and I mean have access to ALL quests, in a coherent game world. This is where I stand, this is where the game succeeds or fails for me. This is what I will renew or not renew my sub over. Other players deserve to have the same thing, all alts having access to all quests in a coherent game world.

edited for clarity

I see one problem with this though. Decoupling means that there has to be another way to keep track of things. Whatever form or shape that will take is nearly irrelevent, as it WILL cost resources to create and to maintain, exactly like the present system we have. In other words, the gain that ZOS claims will come from AwA would be null and void if it is replaced by another system that replaces it. The scrapping of keeping track isn't a side effect - it is the very point, as I understand it.

Tandor · February 2022

Comrade_Ogilvy wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Zezin wrote: »

Mephit wrote: »

I had an exchange earlier with some people in an ESO Facebook group. They don’t have a clue what is coming.

One person said they trust ZOS and have faith they will sort this out, and that the release isn’t even live yet…

Another person said it’ll be ok cos they’ll probably do something similar to WOW.

I told them to check the PTS / forums but they won’t…

I genuinely think most people assume AWA will be something new, and are oblivious / ignorant of what is coming.

A lot of people I know, know what is coming, most are either ok with it, excited or only have minor reservations about it. Truth of things is most of those people don't have a reason to complain here at the forums and so you don't see them much, negative reactions are much easier to gather than positive ones, that's just how people work.

Do they know the form in which it is coming, or are you simply reporting the number of people who are saying "Great, I'm so excited that account-wide achievements are coming" without knowing anything about the present implementation on PTS?

An important distinction.

My own anecdotal experience is that many are quite keen on the idea of account-wide achievements but, once they discover it means destroying most of the character specifics and makes a mess of replaying content on other characters then intitial enthusiasm drops sharpy into the negative, fiery expletive zone.

In addition, once they learn that account-wide doesn't mean the things they really thought it meant and wanted (eg account wide motifs, recipes etc) the fury bounds on the thermonuclear.

It's kind of surreal: almost everyone is ok with account-wide achievements but absolutely NOT done like this.

If you should ever think of telling them that it doesn't include mount training I'd suggest putting it in writing, thermonuclear doesn't even come close to describing their likely reaction and you really don't want to be around them at that moment

!