PTS Update 33 - Feedback Thread for Account Wide Achievements

Dojohoda

They are not giving us anything; they are taking away from us. Calling this account wide achievements is putting icing on a poop cake. It still stinks.

newtinmpls

As far as I know, no one ever wanted or asked for account wide achievements.

The requests I knew about were account wide use of titles.

I could be way off, though.

joerginger

newtinmpls wrote: »

As far as I know, no one ever wanted or asked for account wide achievements.

The requests I knew about were account wide use of titles.

I could be way off, though.

I was not the only one who asked for account wide achievements every now and then. And I have only been here for a bit more than three years, so I have no idea how often this had come up before.

I never cared much about titles and definitely couldn't care less if they are account wide or not.

remosito

newtinmpls wrote: »

As far as I know, no one ever wanted or asked for account wide achievements.

The requests I knew about were account wide use of titles.

I could be way off, though.

you are way off!

Got asked very regularly ever since I started playing....

For some that are looking at achievements as "theirs", having achievements not being account wide is a detriment to playing on alts as it's "wasted" time to get achievements done. You can have 18 chars with 900k each laundered and still not get black market mogul even though you as a player essentially did the achieve 16 times over...

alberichtano

matterandstuff wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

They say that these forum posts are being read and looked over by the team, and while this may be true, I feel like the people who really need to read and understand the impact of these decisions have not actually looked at a single word of what was written here. And if they have, it seems they have no sympathy for them as they would rather gut the game than fix it in such a way that it can continue to be unique and whole.

Matt Firor is the boss, ultimately it's his decision. And he has remained silent on the matter. We don't even know if he's read a single post about it.

It's easy to point fingers at Gina and Kevin and the forum moderators, but it's not their call. They are just the messengers that have to deal with the "cranky" players.

There's only really one way in the end to deal with people like that: walk and take your money with you.

Then Matt Firor can explain to his superiors how he was having such a blast ignoring the "cranky" players that he managed to financially tank an extremely successful MMO, and deal with "cranky" higher-up executives instead.

You assume that the orders for this didn't come from those same higher-ups though.

alberichtano

Vulkunne wrote: »

The gaming company could partner with a cloud storage provider that you would not have direct access to. Your sub fee would cover both costs.

- When playing the game it can quickly pull your profile from the cloud and then update while playing or when you log off
- Vendor manages your data storage at a reasonable fee, game dev manages the game with no additional fees

Problem solved. I would think this solution would have been considered especially now that ZOS is with MS. And that's my greatest concern in all this as far as why can they not work together to solve problems like this.

Because, I believe (and I admit it just guesswork on my part), MS doesn't want to use datastorage that they could rent for good money on a game they just purchased. Unless the gamers will pay at least the same amount for said data storage, it would be a net loss for them. And I am not sure that ZOS would want to increase the costs for the game in that way - it would probably kill the FTP-element, as laying the cost entirely on the Plus-ers would be devastating (though, again, I might be wrong here, since I am not sure how much MS wants to rent out there data space for).

MS bought ZOS in order to make profits, not to improve the games with their own tech. Like any company their duty is to make profit to the shareholders, and anything else would make them liable for misconduct. For a pure gaming company investments in an MMO could generate more profit, but for a parent company it would probably be seen as far too risky.

But again, this is what I believe is happening from my rather meager experience from businesses. I just don't think that MS wants to rain resources over ZOS or ESO, they want to make a profit from what already is there.

Stumo1970

remosito wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

As far as I know, no one ever wanted or asked for account wide achievements.

The requests I knew about were account wide use of titles.

I could be way off, though.

you are way off!

Got asked very regularly ever since I started playing....

For some that are looking at achievements as "theirs", having achievements not being account wide is a detriment to playing on alts as it's "wasted" time to get achievements done. You can have 18 chars with 900k each laundered and still not get black market mogul even though you as a player essentially did the achieve 16 times over...

Wasted? ... you realise people have a different way of playing than you right?

alberichtano

Raevenglass wrote: »

Just look at how they spoke about companions being a "well received" update, when criticism and dissatisfaction continues to be voiced concerning them, both on the forums and in game. There are still daily discussions in zone chat about them, its become almost as big a meme as the infamous Stuga..

The difference to me, though, is I can choose whether or not I want to have companions along for the ride. With the AwA as being implemented, I don't have a choice.

I'd like to have a choice.

What do you mean? You can still play without companions? Or did I misunderstand?

alberichtano

joerginger wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

As far as I know, no one ever wanted or asked for account wide achievements.

The requests I knew about were account wide use of titles.

I could be way off, though.

I was not the only one who asked for account wide achievements every now and then. And I have only been here for a bit more than three years, so I have no idea how often this had come up before.

I never cared much about titles and definitely couldn't care less if they are account wide or not.

Good for you. But not for the rest of us.

This is what irks me with many of these threads, when some just care about what THEY want. I personally don't much care about Deathmatch in Battlegrounds, and would rather only play the other varieties. That doesn't mean I wouldn't defend DMs, because I know that many others do enjoy them.

This is especially true when there are other options than one of two extremes. We could have it both ways. And that is what the absolute majority is asking for in this thred (as I have seen at least). I don't mind if there are account wide achievements, it is not something I cared about or asked for, but I know that others have done so. It is the implementation that ZOS has gone for that I, and many others, are against.

DarcyMardin

All I know is that after the announcement came that this was indeed going live (rather than being delayed until all the glitches have been eliminated), my interest in playing ESO has taken a steep dive. I’ve cancelled two ESO+ subscriptions, one of which has been active since the game began. If I sign in at all, I get depressed and immediately leave. I have dozens of characters, all with their own personalities and achievements, but now I feel as if their hearts have been ripped out.

Maybe no one has communicated with us because this time they can’t even say, “You’re not losing anything.” (As they said when they changed the vMA weapons). Because we *are* losing something. Something huge. Something many of us have worked on and striven for for years. And the folks at ZOS apparently couldn’t care less.

Kesstryl

alberichtano wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

The gaming company could partner with a cloud storage provider that you would not have direct access to. Your sub fee would cover both costs.

- When playing the game it can quickly pull your profile from the cloud and then update while playing or when you log off
- Vendor manages your data storage at a reasonable fee, game dev manages the game with no additional fees

Problem solved. I would think this solution would have been considered especially now that ZOS is with MS. And that's my greatest concern in all this as far as why can they not work together to solve problems like this.

Because, I believe (and I admit it just guesswork on my part), MS doesn't want to use datastorage that they could rent for good money on a game they just purchased. Unless the gamers will pay at least the same amount for said data storage, it would be a net loss for them. And I am not sure that ZOS would want to increase the costs for the game in that way - it would probably kill the FTP-element, as laying the cost entirely on the Plus-ers would be devastating (though, again, I might be wrong here, since I am not sure how much MS wants to rent out there data space for).

MS bought ZOS in order to make profits, not to improve the games with their own tech. Like any company their duty is to make profit to the shareholders, and anything else would make them liable for misconduct. For a pure gaming company investments in an MMO could generate more profit, but for a parent company it would probably be seen as far too risky.

But again, this is what I believe is happening from my rather meager experience from businesses. I just don't think that MS wants to rain resources over ZOS or ESO, they want to make a profit from what already is there.

You could be right, but I disagree. I think the new card game is going to add a slew of achievements, and they're stripping our characters to give us this card game no one wants. It's pretty clear from the High Isle announcement feedback what the community thinks of the card game, and now this just makes the card game even more hated.

remosito

Stumo1970 wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

As far as I know, no one ever wanted or asked for account wide achievements.

The requests I knew about were account wide use of titles.

I could be way off, though.

you are way off!

Got asked very regularly ever since I started playing....

For some that are looking at achievements as "theirs", having achievements not being account wide is a detriment to playing on alts as it's "wasted" time to get achievements done. You can have 18 chars with 900k each laundered and still not get black market mogul even though you as a player essentially did the achieve 16 times over...

Wasted? ... you realise people have a different way of playing than you right?

of course.. was even starting with "for some that are looking at...."

note the "some"....usually that implies there are "others" that are different..

Kesstryl

newtinmpls wrote: »

As far as I know, no one ever wanted or asked for account wide achievements.

The requests I knew about were account wide use of titles.

I could be way off, though.

It has been requested quite a bit. While I could care less about AwA, I was ok with it being added because I'm not selfish enough to want to ruin someone else's style of play. What they're taking away though to implement it is taking away the ability to play the game the way I want to reduce their work load, save a few bytes of resources, and add a ton of new card game achievements. It's gut wrenching. It's like taking food off the plate of some of your children to give second helpings to the favorite child in the family.

jecks33

28 days since the pts started, do we have the "Q&A" about the AwA that Zos promised?

Elsonso

jecks33 wrote: »

28 days since the pts started, do we have the "Q&A" about the AwA that Zos promised?

@jecks33 https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/598865/account-wide-achievements-q-a

Giraffon

Three Alts sent to Sovngarde before they lose their souls to AWA. More will go soon once cool down clears.

Bragerth

silvereyes wrote: »

This isn't a fix for all the issues on PTS, and it does nothing for those on console, but I've made an addon to hide "earned by" tooltips on multi-character account-wide achievements earned after U33 goes live.

https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info3313-Honestly-EarnedAchievements.html


So at least for those on PC, you won't need to fear loading your alts in the wrong order on launch day, since there won't be any partial credit given to anyone. Achievements that were completed before Update 33 will retain their "earned by" tooltips, as well as single-objective achievements earned after Update 33 launches.

awesome I'm glad your making it as an addon, wish they would just get rid of the earned by themselves but thank goodness for add ons

silvereyes

Kesstryl wrote: »

alberichtano wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

The gaming company could partner with a cloud storage provider that you would not have direct access to. Your sub fee would cover both costs.

- When playing the game it can quickly pull your profile from the cloud and then update while playing or when you log off
- Vendor manages your data storage at a reasonable fee, game dev manages the game with no additional fees

Problem solved. I would think this solution would have been considered especially now that ZOS is with MS. And that's my greatest concern in all this as far as why can they not work together to solve problems like this.

Because, I believe (and I admit it just guesswork on my part), MS doesn't want to use datastorage that they could rent for good money on a game they just purchased. Unless the gamers will pay at least the same amount for said data storage, it would be a net loss for them. And I am not sure that ZOS would want to increase the costs for the game in that way - it would probably kill the FTP-element, as laying the cost entirely on the Plus-ers would be devastating (though, again, I might be wrong here, since I am not sure how much MS wants to rent out there data space for).

MS bought ZOS in order to make profits, not to improve the games with their own tech. Like any company their duty is to make profit to the shareholders, and anything else would make them liable for misconduct. For a pure gaming company investments in an MMO could generate more profit, but for a parent company it would probably be seen as far too risky.

But again, this is what I believe is happening from my rather meager experience from businesses. I just don't think that MS wants to rain resources over ZOS or ESO, they want to make a profit from what already is there.

I think the new card game is going to add a slew of achievements

I've been thinking about this, and I don't think this is just about the card game. I think the performance / server stability reasons that ZOS gave are genuine, and they are experiencing a real issue with scalability right now.

1. Even as early as the end of 2019, work on database cold storage had already begun. They realized they had a scaling problem even then, as accumulated character data continued to pile up over time.
2. When the pandemic hit, ESO's popularity exploded, hitting active player numbers unseen "since console launch back in 2015". According to Steam Charts, the active player count more than doubled between the end of 2019 and April 2020.
3. When Greymoor released, the servers couldn't handle character load traffic. They singled out some redundant character save code - which was fixed - but also achievements as the underlying cause. This was even considering the fact that many of the characters being loaded were either brand new, or hadn't played in years.
4. Database caching and worker optimizations work is already complete, and launched with Update 27.
5. There was another large spike of activity in late March 2021. This corresponds with the patch before the Blackwood Chapter release, not the Chapter itself.
6. Cold storage is running late. It's activated on Playstation NA and EU and XBox NA and EU servers. However, it hasn't been activated on PC NA or PC EU servers, yet, and there's no ETA for when it will be.

Given that evidence, I think that what is happening is that the database optimizations the developers have implemented so far - including caching - are proving insufficient to deal with the game's rapid data growth. The Greymoor Boom is now exacting a delayed performance drag on the database as those players accumulate more data per character, and they accumulate more and more characters. The cold storage optimizations aren't complete yet, and they probably won't be on PC in time for the new surge of activity in the coming month.

They probably knew this all this in Q4 of last year when they planned out their rearchitecture, and they knew they didn't have enough time to fundamentally change all the achievements data to use a different storage mechanism before March 2022. So they decided to try and kill two birds with one stone and implemented a frequently-requested feature of account-wide achievements to try and buy some time by deleting data.

They probably foresaw some backlash, but I honestly don't think that they knew how much there would be, and they had no backup plan. The player activity surge is coming, and soon, and AwA is their only hope to weather it.

Just another reason why they need to reinstate a formal program for community dialog again, IMO. If the Council of Nirn, Council of Raiders programs were still active, and this had been discussed with them ahead of time, it probably would have been apparent to ZOS much earlier that character data is sacred to a lot of players, and they needed to come up with a different plan to deal with their technical issues. The community / class rep programs and PTS feedback are not good substitutes to a back-and-forth dialog.

Jaraal

silvereyes wrote: »

According to Steam Charts, the active player count more than doubled between the end of 2019 and April 2020.

Interesting that you mention that. In the past few days that I've been looking at the numbers, they've gone from -800 players to now -1,243 players. Could be just a normal cycle..... or the start of something bigger, spurred by this drastic change in how the game is played.

Only time will tell.

Zezin

Jaraal wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

According to Steam Charts, the active player count more than doubled between the end of 2019 and April 2020.

Interesting that you mention that. In the past few days that I've been looking at the numbers, they've gone from -800 players to now -1,243 players. Could be just a normal cycle..... or the start of something bigger, spurred by this drastic change in how the game is played.

Only time will tell.

Or it could be because of certain souls-like game a lot of my friends are playing lol.

Zezin

Zezin wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

According to Steam Charts, the active player count more than doubled between the end of 2019 and April 2020.

Interesting that you mention that. In the past few days that I've been looking at the numbers, they've gone from -800 players to now -1,243 players. Could be just a normal cycle..... or the start of something bigger, spurred by this drastic change in how the game is played.

Only time will tell.

Or it could be because of certain souls-like game a lot of my friends are playing lol.

And this is a pretty common occurrence, happened during the launch of other games(mostly MMOs) too, people go and play the new shinny thing and then come back.

Edited for clarity.

Jaraal

Zezin wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

According to Steam Charts, the active player count more than doubled between the end of 2019 and April 2020.

Interesting that you mention that. In the past few days that I've been looking at the numbers, they've gone from -800 players to now -1,243 players. Could be just a normal cycle..... or the start of something bigger, spurred by this drastic change in how the game is played.

Only time will tell.

Or it could be because of certain souls-like game a lot of my friends are playing lol.

Yeah, I'll be playing it too once I get a new power supply in for my Win10 comp. Lots of people raving about it.

Nice thing about non-MMO games: they don't change the game on you halfway through and wipe out all your previous (and future) hard work.

SilverBride

DarcyMardin wrote: »

All I know is that after the announcement came that this was indeed going live (rather than being delayed until all the glitches have been eliminated), my interest in playing ESO has taken a steep dive. I’ve cancelled two ESO+ subscriptions, one of which has been active since the game began. If I sign in at all, I get depressed and immediately leave. I have dozens of characters, all with their own personalities and achievements, but now I feel as if their hearts have been ripped out.

I feel the same exact way. I log on and think why do any questing or map clearing, which is something I love, because completing this zone will soon be more difficult due to not being able to track some of the map objectives. I spend most of my time online now just decorating my houses, which is something I love but was not my main activity.

I really understand how you feel about your characters because I feel the same way. I love how my characters seem to develop their own personalities, and this isn't something I consciously make happen. They just develop into individuals because I play them as individuals.

ESO is more than just a game for me. I log on and see my world and the friends I've made and I can spend some time enjoying it all stress free every day. But this change is greatly diminishing my desire to play, and I won't be purchasing the new chapter for now.

[Edited for clarity]

Kesstryl

Well, the final patch notes are up and no news about decoupling NPCs and quests from achievements. I'm going to role play on PTS and record it, maybe even stream it just so ZOS and everyone will see how ridiculous the game world will be for alts, then when PTS closes, I'm done. Unless they have fixes in the pipeline, my eight years with this game ends this update.

silvereyes

Kesstryl wrote: »

Well, the final patch notes are up and no news about decoupling NPCs and quests from achievements. I'm going to role play on PTS and record it, maybe even stream it just so ZOS and everyone will see how ridiculous the game world will be for alts, then when PTS closes, I'm done. Unless they have fixes in the pipeline, my eight years with this game ends this update.

Sigh. I guess it's time to start on another addon to track world bosses, delves, and dolmens. Maybe dungeon bosses too, while I'm at it. It'll probably mean resetting all progress back to zero, but I'd rather have that happen than have them all at 100%.

Zorrin

Kesstryl wrote: »

Well, the final patch notes are up and no news about decoupling NPCs and quests from achievements. I'm going to role play on PTS and record it, maybe even stream it just so ZOS and everyone will see how ridiculous the game world will be for alts, then when PTS closes, I'm done. Unless they have fixes in the pipeline, my eight years with this game ends this update.

Agreed. With such a disgustingly broken "shared (ew)" world state, I can't even think of ESO as a game worthy of the Elder Scrolls title anymore. Eight whole years of my time, money, and love... and it might as well have all been tied to a rock and thrown off a ship at deep sea. I truly hope they have fixes down the road, but this is far too heartbreaking in the meantime.

Elsonso

Kesstryl wrote: »

Well, the final patch notes are up and no news about decoupling NPCs and quests from achievements. I'm going to role play on PTS and record it, maybe even stream it just so ZOS and everyone will see how ridiculous the game world will be for alts, then when PTS closes, I'm done. Unless they have fixes in the pipeline, my eight years with this game ends this update.

My intention is to park all my characters, except for the one that will be playing High Isle this June. After High Isle, reassess the state of the game, which I do not expect to improve with age. There are a few combat, performance, and achievement bugs they will have to address before I commit to long term play here.

Sadly, they have not answered my Q&A followup question about whether I have a time limit for migrating achievements from character to account (ie logging into each character). No answer, so powering down again. Until next week... Beeeeoooop.

Jaraal

silvereyes wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

Well, the final patch notes are up and no news about decoupling NPCs and quests from achievements. I'm going to role play on PTS and record it, maybe even stream it just so ZOS and everyone will see how ridiculous the game world will be for alts, then when PTS closes, I'm done. Unless they have fixes in the pipeline, my eight years with this game ends this update.

Sigh. I guess it's time to start on another addon to track world bosses, delves, and dolmens. Maybe dungeon bosses too, while I'm at it. It'll probably mean resetting all progress back to zero, but I'd rather have that happen than have them all at 100%.

That's very nice of you, but console players will still have to deal with the aftermath of this update. And it's pretty sad when one individual tries to clean up the fallout of a major corporation's decision.

Kudos to you.

Arunei

Stumo1970 wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

As far as I know, no one ever wanted or asked for account wide achievements.

The requests I knew about were account wide use of titles.

I could be way off, though.

you are way off!

Got asked very regularly ever since I started playing....

For some that are looking at achievements as "theirs", having achievements not being account wide is a detriment to playing on alts as it's "wasted" time to get achievements done. You can have 18 chars with 900k each laundered and still not get black market mogul even though you as a player essentially did the achieve 16 times over...

Wasted? ... you realise people have a different way of playing than you right?

They were saying that there are people who felt their time was wasted playing on different alts and getting work towards achieves on them instead of playing on their main and getting them, and over the years that exact argument has been made over and over. They weren't saying that's how everyone feels, since this thread has made it clear different people enjoy the game in different ways. They were clarifying that it has been asked for for quite some time and listing one of the main reasons given for people wanting AwA.

alberichtano wrote: »

joerginger wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

As far as I know, no one ever wanted or asked for account wide achievements.

The requests I knew about were account wide use of titles.

I could be way off, though.

I was not the only one who asked for account wide achievements every now and then. And I have only been here for a bit more than three years, so I have no idea how often this had come up before.

I never cared much about titles and definitely couldn't care less if they are account wide or not.

Good for you. But not for the rest of us.

This is what irks me with many of these threads, when some just care about what THEY want. I personally don't much care about Deathmatch in Battlegrounds, and would rather only play the other varieties. That doesn't mean I wouldn't defend DMs, because I know that many others do enjoy them.

This is especially true when there are other options than one of two extremes. We could have it both ways. And that is what the absolute majority is asking for in this thred (as I have seen at least). I don't mind if there are account wide achievements, it is not something I cared about or asked for, but I know that others have done so. It is the implementation that ZOS has gone for that I, and many others, are against.

Uh...I don't think that person was saying what you think they were to warrant that reaction. They never said "this is how I play and I don't care about how anyone else does", they were just saying they personally have asked for AwA in the past but they didn't care if Titles specifically were part of that or not. Nothing indicated they only care about what they wanted, the person they were replying to had said they don't think AwA was requested very much and that they thought it was mostly account-wide Titles people were asking for. The person you quoted was simply telling them that's not the case for them.

People should slow down posting and re-read what they're replying to, because a lot of people are understandably upset, but they're misreading posts and assuming people are fighting against them when they really aren't.

Jaraal

Zorrin wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

Well, the final patch notes are up and no news about decoupling NPCs and quests from achievements. I'm going to role play on PTS and record it, maybe even stream it just so ZOS and everyone will see how ridiculous the game world will be for alts, then when PTS closes, I'm done. Unless they have fixes in the pipeline, my eight years with this game ends this update.

Agreed. With such a disgustingly broken "shared (ew)" world state, I can't even think of ESO as a game worthy of the Elder Scrolls title anymore. Eight whole years of my time, money, and love... and it might as well have all been tied to a rock and thrown off a ship at deep sea. I truly hope they have fixes down the road, but this is far too heartbreaking in the meantime.

Agree with your sentiments. However, once the character data is deleted, it won't ever be coming back.