PTS Update 33 - Feedback Thread for Account Wide Achievements

Psiion

Greetings all,

As we have had to remove a few posts, this is a reminder to that Baiting is nonconstructive and against the ESO Forum's Community Rules. It’s very normal to disagree with others, and even debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If you encounter a post violating the rules in some way, we ask that you report the post for the Moderation Team to review rather than further engage and derail from the constructive feedback the thread is intended for.

Moving forward, please keep the Rules in mind.

silvereyes

Bootstomp wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

Pretty sure it's just a bug. Patience, grasshopper.

We wouldn't need to be "pretty sure" about any of this if ZOS would just weigh in on whether these issues are bugs or "features".

I did find it surprising that there was no "Known Issues" section in the patch notes, especially when it took people all of an hour on PTS to start reporting bugs.

To me, that says either development was so far behind schedule that it hadn't even made it to QA yet, or that the list of known issues was too long for publication. Either way, not a good look.

Jaraal

silvereyes wrote: »

kind_hero wrote: »

Pearly wrote: »

It would be cool to be able to wear titles on different characters, but I think there should also be some way to show that you earned a certain title on your current character. Something like a symbol next to the name of the title could work.

E.g., I got Godslayer on a different character than I'm wearing it on, so the title appears as "Godslayer". Then, I get Godslayer on the same character, so the title appears as "Godslayer*". Something more inventive than an asterisk would be better.

Yes, a smiley, like in "Godslayer "

I understand where you are coming from, but this opens up issues like level 1 chars having such titles, which is more like a joke. When I started playing, right from the beginning, there were no outfits, no skins, no fancy costumes, and for a while it was great, I loved ESO back then because you felt like a true Elder Scrolls hero (which always starts as a prisoner or from rags), and looking at players you could tell how much they advanced. Time has passed, we can't go back, meanwhile I am a big fan of the outfit system and have lots of costumes, but titles and achievements still represent the progress a character has made. Seeing trifecta titles on low level alts seems broken to me.

In all seriousness, though, titles always mean way more to the person wearing them than they do to anyone who sees another player wearing them. To many people, they are already a joke. Where we have arrived now is just the inevitable destination we have been heading towards for years.

Yeah if this goes through I’ll probably get another Emperor title (not Former Emperor), then log into a lvl 2 character while it’s active, then go around telling people I need help because I’m the Emperor and I need to get back to Cyrodiil to guide my people, but they won’t let me in because I’m not level 10.

Should provide for some interesting conversations!

deleted221106-002999

Jaraal wrote: »

Yeah if this goes through I’ll probably get another Emperor title (not Former Emperor), then log into a lvl 2 character while it’s active, then go around telling people I need help because I’m the Emperor and I need to get back to Cyrodiil to guide my people, but they won’t let me in because I’m not level 10.

Should provide for some interesting conversations!

Presumably you can get 'emperor slayer' now from squishing your 2nd level (well, 10th minimum I guess to enter cyro) when wearing the title?

That would be....interesting.

edit:typos

Dolgubon

L

Pearly wrote: »

It would be cool to be able to wear titles on different characters, but I think there should also be some way to show that you earned a certain title on your current character. Something like a symbol next to the name of the title could work.

E.g., I got Godslayer on a different character than I'm wearing it on, so the title appears as "Godslayer". Then, I get Godslayer on the same character, so the title appears as "Godslayer*". Something more inventive than an asterisk would be better.

Anything that makes titles different on a character that earned them is probably not a good solution. It just moves the post of 'i don't want to have to get a title on another toon' to 'i don't want to have to get this special identifier on another toon'.



Regarding this possibly being for server reasons: I think it's unlikely that it's a big consideration. One achievement should only take up maybe 6-11 bytes of space. (Basically just timestamp for completion) I'm not sure how many there are, but assuming 2.5k with maybe 200 still character specific achievements, that's ~23 kB. Since there's a lot of other still character specific stuff, like inventory, armory, (some) quests, eidetic memory, settings, and more, I don't think it particularly likely that it's a strong contributing factor.


I think it's pretty safe to say that even if the people who are unhappy with the current implementation are in the minority, there's still a significant amount of us. And for everyone saying that they asked in all their guilds of hundreds of people, and almost no one is unhappy - yeah I'm in a bunch of big guilds too. And it's generally true for large guilds that only a small number of people actively talk in them anyway. So regardless of guild size, you'll have a small sample size anyway. It's possibly also that they don't know the current PTS implementation of account wide achievements - I've seen a few people who were all for it, until they found out the details of the implementation that's on the PTS.

One thing I'm curious as to: since PTS is rather short, if a full solution can't be created in time, could the change go through as planned, except retaining character achievement info in the database, and then providing a full solution later down the road once devs have time to create it? Mostly all that would be required would be to just not delete the character specific data. And as a bonus, stuff like maps, museums, and quests could still depend on the character specific stuff, removing all of those weird edge cases that people have experienced.

Jaraal

Even better yet, why not leave a core mechanic that’s been part of the game for eight years alone?

silvereyes

Dolgubon wrote: »

One thing I'm curious as to: since PTS is rather short, if a full solution can't be created in time, could the change go through as planned, except retaining character achievement info in the database, and then providing a full solution later down the road once devs have time to create it? Mostly all that would be required would be to just not delete the character specific data. And as a bonus, stuff like maps, museums, and quests could still depend on the character specific stuff, removing all of those weird edge cases that people have experienced.

I'm curious about the destructiveness of the transition as well. However, it's not as easy as just not deleting old data. They will need to keep actively remembering any new character-specific progress in order to add on character-specific stuff in the future.

mbeetley_ESO

LtSnowballin wrote: »

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

Wanting account-wide achievements simply so you don't have to do them again on a new character doesn't make sense, since you have already earned those achievements. You don't HAVE to earn them on a new character, so account-wide only really is necessary to get a snapshot of everything you have done, regardless of character.

Let me go ahead and stop you there. It makes COMPLETE sense because it eliminates making the player REDO the content they didn't like in order to get a title that would be given to a different character. You're right, we don't HAVE to re-earn them, but we WANT the titles granted from an achievement on different toons, whilst retaining our main toon as our "achievement" toon. It makes perfect sense and it would be EXTREMELY beneficial to add this change, but with it, put in an "Opt in" or "Opt out" option so people that DO want it, can get it... And those who DON'T want it, don't have to have it.

Let me go ahead and stop you there. You're not talking about achievements; you're talking about titles. While there are some who are opposed to making titles account-wide, that would be a far less invasive way to solve the issue you're describing, wouldn't it? So many things are account-wide; why not add Titles to the mix?

Dojohoda

They are taking a system that works, a wonderful list, the best list in the game, that shows you what your character can do and has completed and in doing so, they are breaking parts of the game ... for what?

mbeetley_ESO

Just following on my previous post, I am curious: is there anything other than Titles that is granted through achievements but isn't already account-wide? I know dyes are unlocked for the account, and I don't remember how many other things (mementos, personalities, pets) are connected to achievements, but I'm pretty sure they are already account-wide if there are any. E.g., I can use Razak's Opus as a pet on any of my toons even though only one or two have completed that dungeon. Anyway, if that is the case, how would this not be solved by doing two things:

1) make titles account-wide
2) add an account-aggregate titles tab

I'm not saying that solution would make everyone happy, but it seems less invasive than overwriting the individual character achievement tracking altogether. And even if I am wrong and titles aren't the only thing that is unlocked beyond one's individual interface view, why not just unlock those other things for the account in addition to titles?

I believe one other big issue is the fact that some people think of achievements as something they accomplish as a player, while others view the achievements as things that their characters accomplish. The system as it currently stands is built for group 2, so I see why people in group 1 are unhappy. But as has been noted often in this discussion (and in other forum threads on the same topic), the ability to track individual character development is very important to many players. So finding a solution that recognizes this while at the same time accommodating those who take the player-side view seems a desirable goal, not so?

deleted221106-002999

Dolgubon wrote: »

L

Pearly wrote: »

It would be cool to be able to wear titles on different characters, but I think there should also be some way to show that you earned a certain title on your current character. Something like a symbol next to the name of the title could work.

E.g., I got Godslayer on a different character than I'm wearing it on, so the title appears as "Godslayer". Then, I get Godslayer on the same character, so the title appears as "Godslayer*". Something more inventive than an asterisk would be better.

Anything that makes titles different on a character that earned them is probably not a good solution. It just moves the post of 'i don't want to have to get a title on another toon' to 'i don't want to have to get this special identifier on another toon'.



Regarding this possibly being for server reasons: I think it's unlikely that it's a big consideration. One achievement should only take up maybe 6-11 bytes of space. (Basically just timestamp for completion) I'm not sure how many there are, but assuming 2.5k with maybe 200 still character specific achievements, that's ~23 kB. Since there's a lot of other still character specific stuff, like inventory, armory, (some) quests, eidetic memory, settings, and more, I don't think it particularly likely that it's a strong contributing factor.


I think it's pretty safe to say that even if the people who are unhappy with the current implementation are in the minority, there's still a significant amount of us. And for everyone saying that they asked in all their guilds of hundreds of people, and almost no one is unhappy - yeah I'm in a bunch of big guilds too. And it's generally true for large guilds that only a small number of people actively talk in them anyway. So regardless of guild size, you'll have a small sample size anyway. It's possibly also that they don't know the current PTS implementation of account wide achievements - I've seen a few people who were all for it, until they found out the details of the implementation that's on the PTS.

One thing I'm curious as to: since PTS is rather short, if a full solution can't be created in time, could the change go through as planned, except retaining character achievement info in the database, and then providing a full solution later down the road once devs have time to create it? Mostly all that would be required would be to just not delete the character specific data. And as a bonus, stuff like maps, museums, and quests could still depend on the character specific stuff, removing all of those weird edge cases that people have experienced.

Guildies I've spoken to are mixed. Many think initially it sounds ok until they discover the implementation details: stuff they'd want as account-wide aren't and the realisation of the loss of character-specific data as a consequence pretty much shifts the mood to more sombre and less enthusiastic.

Regardless of pro/con proportions I fully expect a huge [snip] surge [edit]in extremely negative, angry and hostile reactions[/edit] in the non-forum, potter-around players who quietly play towards specific character related goals only to find that information forever gone if this goes live as is.

I agree, too, with your suggestion: it would be prudent to keep the character specific data if this implementation goes live. I'm still hoping that at the very least a client-side character-specific achievement tab like we have in current, with data processing on the client side could be maintained - this would preserve character specifics and enable continuation at that level, reduce the server data (on all those cold-storaged accounts, too) and enable the server side account-wide stuff as proposed.

[edited for profanity bypass]

[edited to bypass mod edit which sterilised context]

Jaraal

Comrade_Ogilvy wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Yeah if this goes through I’ll probably get another Emperor title (not Former Emperor), then log into a lvl 2 character while it’s active, then go around telling people I need help because I’m the Emperor and I need to get back to Cyrodiil to guide my people, but they won’t let me in because I’m not level 10.

Should provide for some interesting conversations!

Presumably you can get 'emperor slayer' now from squishing your 2nd level (well, 10th minimum I guess to enter cyro) when wearing the title?

That would be....interesting.

edit:typos

That’s a good point. Being Emperor gives you significant buffs. Since achievements are going to be account wide, I should be able to log in my lvl 10 pseudo-Emp and gain XP ridiculously fast killing resource guards and such with my uber powers. Could become the new leveling meta, surpassing BRP for XP gain.

silvereyes

Jaraal wrote: »

Comrade_Ogilvy wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Yeah if this goes through I’ll probably get another Emperor title (not Former Emperor), then log into a lvl 2 character while it’s active, then go around telling people I need help because I’m the Emperor and I need to get back to Cyrodiil to guide my people, but they won’t let me in because I’m not level 10.

Should provide for some interesting conversations!

Presumably you can get 'emperor slayer' now from squishing your 2nd level (well, 10th minimum I guess to enter cyro) when wearing the title?

That would be....interesting.

edit:typos

That’s a good point. Being Emperor gives you significant buffs. Since achievements are going to be account wide, I should be able to log in my lvl 10 pseudo-Emp and gain XP ridiculously fast killing resource guards and such with my uber powers. Could become the new leveling meta, surpassing BRP for XP gain.

Somehow I get the feeling that the time taken to push for emperor in the first place, plus the time to travel between resources would negate any efficiency advantages over BRP.

PeacefulAnarchy

Jaraal wrote: »

Comrade_Ogilvy wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Yeah if this goes through I’ll probably get another Emperor title (not Former Emperor), then log into a lvl 2 character while it’s active, then go around telling people I need help because I’m the Emperor and I need to get back to Cyrodiil to guide my people, but they won’t let me in because I’m not level 10.

Should provide for some interesting conversations!

Presumably you can get 'emperor slayer' now from squishing your 2nd level (well, 10th minimum I guess to enter cyro) when wearing the title?

That would be....interesting.

edit:typos

That’s a good point. Being Emperor gives you significant buffs. Since achievements are going to be account wide, I should be able to log in my lvl 10 pseudo-Emp and gain XP ridiculously fast killing resource guards and such with my uber powers. Could become the new leveling meta, surpassing BRP for XP gain.

Emperor is not a status granted by the achievement. The achievement is granted by having the status. Just like you can wear overlord on a baby character but they don't get the skill line or points, you can maybe wear the emperor title on your baby, but it won't actually grant you emp status or bonus.

Jaraal

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Comrade_Ogilvy wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Yeah if this goes through I’ll probably get another Emperor title (not Former Emperor), then log into a lvl 2 character while it’s active, then go around telling people I need help because I’m the Emperor and I need to get back to Cyrodiil to guide my people, but they won’t let me in because I’m not level 10.

Should provide for some interesting conversations!

Presumably you can get 'emperor slayer' now from squishing your 2nd level (well, 10th minimum I guess to enter cyro) when wearing the title?

That would be....interesting.

edit:typos

That’s a good point. Being Emperor gives you significant buffs. Since achievements are going to be account wide, I should be able to log in my lvl 10 pseudo-Emp and gain XP ridiculously fast killing resource guards and such with my uber powers. Could become the new leveling meta, surpassing BRP for XP gain.

Emperor is not a status granted by the achievement. The achievement is granted by having the status. Just like you can wear overlord on a baby character but they don't get the skill line or points, you can maybe wear the emperor title on your baby, but it won't actually grant you emp status or bonus.

But Emperor is not rank based like Grand Overlord. It’s strictly governed by AP points. With all the bugs being introduced with this new system, who’s to say scoreboard achievements won’t be affected as well?

And what if the status is actually granted by the achievement? We must peer inside Schrodinger’s achievement box to be certain.

Jaraal

silvereyes wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Comrade_Ogilvy wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Yeah if this goes through I’ll probably get another Emperor title (not Former Emperor), then log into a lvl 2 character while it’s active, then go around telling people I need help because I’m the Emperor and I need to get back to Cyrodiil to guide my people, but they won’t let me in because I’m not level 10.

Should provide for some interesting conversations!

Presumably you can get 'emperor slayer' now from squishing your 2nd level (well, 10th minimum I guess to enter cyro) when wearing the title?

That would be....interesting.

edit:typos

That’s a good point. Being Emperor gives you significant buffs. Since achievements are going to be account wide, I should be able to log in my lvl 10 pseudo-Emp and gain XP ridiculously fast killing resource guards and such with my uber powers. Could become the new leveling meta, surpassing BRP for XP gain.

Somehow I get the feeling that the time taken to push for emperor in the first place, plus the time to travel between resources would negate any efficiency advantages over BRP.

I meant once you Emp on your PvP character, you can log in on your lvl 10 shared achievements toon and run with your Emp buffs. And ZOS will be happy to sell you blocks of 10 riding speed lessons in the Crown Store.

Incidentally, if you run WGT while you are the acting Emperor, Clivia Tharn has some special dialogue reserved for you.

Oliviander

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

What would be a viable compromise? What would tou propose that would appease both groups? Zos supporting two separate systems as others stated is likely not a viable option from their view point. With that assumption What would you being willing to compromise to work with the character only folks. For whom many see the overview and aggregate with character achievement tracking as their compromise?

Maybe you are right - but it should be.
As this is the breaking point of the game for so many of us and in very different directions,
they should put every ressource they have in this delicate feature and try to make
most of player base happy.

And the only way I can see thy can do this is implement both
accountwide achievemnts (incremental between chars ) and character achievements (non incremental between chars)
simultanously. (My Draft: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/597289/)

They rather should skip the cardgame - imho

Gelmir

Why ZOS would make such a controversial move like this is beyond me. They will be disgruntling half of the community, whereas the lack of this new feature wouldn't cause any havoc.

wheresbes

I also hope ZOS reconsiders it, achievements are a core aspect of the game for me. I would have much less incentive to do content with a new toon if I know I'm not getting achievements.

Please, make it optional.

Jaraal

Gelmir wrote: »

Why ZOS would make such a controversial move like this is beyond me. They will be disgruntling half of the community, whereas the lack of this new feature wouldn't cause any havoc.

You are forgetting the Zenimax motto: "If it ain't broke, let's fix it!"

Cominfordatoothbrush

I'm sure others have stated it much more eloquently but I have to add another request that there be some kind of system to indicate which characters actually fulfilled achievements and when they did it. Even if it just showed a list of dates and names when you mouse over, a tab in your journal for global vs character achievements, or something like Kyoma's achievement tracker.

As far as cumulative achievements go, I don't mind them being merged, but the sheer scope of achievements that are no longer tracked or character is far FAR too much. I'm completely in favor of global achievements, but ONLY under the circumstance that I can still see which characters have done what.

For me this holds importance for roleplay, a sense of progression (both tracking your character's progress and the satisfaction of seeing the popup regardless if another character has done it), replayability, and honestly there are a lot of achievements that hold sentimental value for me that I don't want to be erased.

So tldr; /please/ implement a per-character system alongside this. There are so many reasons for people to want both systems and if simple mods can do it, I'm sure there's a way it's possible.

Side note, I'm unconditionally in favor of account wide titles and think it's a great idea. Do motifs and furnishings next please

Anfieldkris

Comrade_Ogilvy wrote: »

.

IronWooshu wrote: »

Can anyone check Cyrodiil devles for me, I usually refrain from completing them on my PVP toon so the delve boss spawn but with my main they are all complete and now no delve bosses are spawning in Cyro and I can't get my AP buff.

This is already identified as an issue by myself and others: if delves have been completed at account-level any subseuqent characters are treated as having completed it - so have to stand around and wait for boss spawns.

Without a fix the trick of using undone delves for the +20%ap battle spirit bonus is gone - you'll have to wait around for the full 5+ mins for boss(es) to respawn.

So this has to be a bug/glitch, right?

If the boss is despawned then the account wide achievement sounds like it is treating it as if you have just killed it right now when you enter the delve, rather than as if you have killed it previously. Either that or just bad luck/timing - someone else just killed it. You can kill the same delve boss over and over on any character to get the AP buff currently on live, it doesn’t matter how many times you have killed it before. These aren’t one and done things at the moment.

Salmeyna

Araneae6537 wrote: »

@Salmeyna If ZOS can create an option for players to choose to configure their accounts that way, great. I’m all for player options, including those I would never wish to touch myself.

I must say that your no compromise hard stance is really unfair though. Surely you must realize that there are players who feel as strongly as you but in the opposite way? To be able to do content again with a different character or not, to do it a different way, or not at all and have some characters noble heroes and others villians, etc. or simply to feel a sense of accomplishment while progressing through dungeons etc. with a new character.

I really hope that ZOS reevaluates how achievements are handled and can give the most players what is most important to them. I care about the enjoyment of players with very different goals and playstyles than me as well as the overall health of the game. If that means I must sacrifice many of my character achievements, little goals and happiness in meeting them, so be it. Make nothing have to be repeatable and no reward or even acknowledgement for doing so. BUT I must be able to interact with the world anew on each character, do any quest I want and not have NPCs interact with my character as if I’d previously done xyz. I have never even heard of an MMORPG that doesn’t at least allow that, however much may be accountwide.

@Araneae6537
Of course i do. That's also what i'm saying. There are people with different playstyles, everyone giving their feedback on their stances in this post. I don't see any no compromise hard stance in my writings. I plead for no overview tab instead of real accountwide achievements. As long as there are accountwide achievements, especially the grindy ones, i'm happy. I support people who want to feel special with a 18xmaster angler or planebreaker. I support people who want some other forms of markings. I also personally don't want all achievements accountwide. I love the museum content, the exploration and the questing, and would love to have that characterspecific. I'm also pretty sure that my personal choice of accountwide/characterspecific achievements is completely irrelevant to anyone. I want to possibility to unlock grindy achievements, especially those that require a group of players, on all my chars, so i don't have to waste my time on that, and can focus on what i enjoy: the world, the stories.
And yes, i totally agree, i would also like to be able to interact with each of my chars individually with the world. And i'm also gladly sacrificing all those achievements i've already grinded on many chars.

I have to say, as i read your post, we seem to agree on most things, so i'm quite perplexed on why you call me out on my hard stance, whatever that entails. Maybe there is a misunderstanding, or maybe i communicate wrongly. English isn't my native language after all, that's a real possibility.

Salmeyna

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

What would be a viable compromise? What would tou propose that would appease both groups? Zos supporting two separate systems as others stated is likely not a viable option from their view point. With that assumption What would you being willing to compromise to work with the character only folks. For whom many see the overview and aggregate with character achievement tracking as their compromise?

Well, from my perspective the perfect compromise would be if achievements would unlock accountwide, and you could have a counter and maybe even names with them. The people who feel like they lose their work if all gets merged, would still keep it in form of the counters, since you can't get an Emperorx10 if you didn't do it on 10 chars. I would get the Unlock, so i have everything, they get bragging rights for their grind. Maybe a filter on character for better tracking. As a filter is something optional, i would simply keep my hands away from it and be happy about not seeing anything missing, and others still have an option to track everything characterwide.

Seems like i didn't communicate well, so i want to highlight that i also don't want the achievements keeping my from doing certain quests or collections. It is what i'm willing to sacrifice for not having to grind out everything 18 times, but i would be sad about it.

renne

Gelmir wrote: »

Why ZOS would make such a controversial move like this is beyond me. They will be disgruntling half of the community, whereas the lack of this new feature wouldn't cause any havoc.

Because the other half the community want it and obviously enough people have demanded it over the years and continued to bug about it for them to consider it as something to implement. I know people love to think that ZOS pulls all of this kind of stuff out of their rears, but it comes from somewhere and it's massively disingenuous for people to act like they think this is just them doing something for the hell of it. Yes, it's going to make people unhappy. Hopefully they can find a way of implementing this as a compromise to make the most people happy as possible.

But there are plenty of us who do want this. Just like there are people who don't.

Also it's pretty naive to think that not having this "wouldn't cause any havoc", considering it's caused enough noise over the years for them to introduce it AND they've announced it.

"Wouldn't cause any havoc"?

Shnax

From what I have seen, very few people are against account wide achievements completely. Most just want a solution that does not erase their characters' individual progress.

I would love to see a version of account wide achievements that not only keeps each character's progress traceable, but adds to the current system by introducing new achievements that encourage playing with different classes and in different roles.

The proposed change not only fails to add anything new, but also removes variety in character development from the game.

deleted221106-002999

Anfieldkris wrote: »

Comrade_Ogilvy wrote: »

.

IronWooshu wrote: »

Can anyone check Cyrodiil devles for me, I usually refrain from completing them on my PVP toon so the delve boss spawn but with my main they are all complete and now no delve bosses are spawning in Cyro and I can't get my AP buff.

This is already identified as an issue by myself and others: if delves have been completed at account-level any subseuqent characters are treated as having completed it - so have to stand around and wait for boss spawns.

Without a fix the trick of using undone delves for the +20%ap battle spirit bonus is gone - you'll have to wait around for the full 5+ mins for boss(es) to respawn.

So this has to be a bug/glitch, right?

If the boss is despawned then the account wide achievement sounds like it is treating it as if you have just killed it right now when you enter the delve, rather than as if you have killed it previously. Either that or just bad luck/timing - someone else just killed it. You can kill the same delve boss over and over on any character to get the AP buff currently on live, it doesn’t matter how many times you have killed it before. These aren’t one and done things at the moment.

Apologies for lack of clarity - you can still kill the delve boss and get the ap buff - it just treats a 'new' character entering the delve as having already completed it if the account-wide achievement has been triggered. This means instead of leaving delve bosses until you need the ap boost, there's no point AND that the character would have to wait for the 5+mins for boss to spawn, rather than, as now, triggering boss respawn on approach.


edited original post to hopefully clarify the account-wide delve completion with time impact incurred for other characters who have not completed it.

tim77

rofl Kudos to the one guy with perma emp-title... he's the real winner i guess... 18 "current emperors" forever

sionIV

1. I'm starting to doubt ZOS every time I hear the 'server performance improvement' argument. They keep changing/removing things and I still don't notice any major difference when it comes to performance. If anything, Cyrodiil has only gotten worse for me after all of these changes.

2. While I would prefer two different tabs, one for individual characters and one for account, if we're looking at a compromise, people should look closer at WoW. When you're playing on a character there, you still have account bound achievements, but they look visually different (colour) so it's quite easy to see which you haven't completed on that specific character.

Example of this:

As can be seen in the picture, the brightly coloured one at the top has been earned by that character, while the three under has been earned on the account but not by that character. These stand out as they're still grey, but the title of the achievement is different and you can see on the symbol to the right that they have been completed. It even has a time of date for the completion. The last two achievements are completely grey, and haven't been completed by the character nor on the account.

I would personally prefer to keep the individual achievements, but I'm willing to use a system like the above as a compromise.

3. There is a difference between removing something that people have had for a very long time, and adding something new to the game. The people who are against a compromise, or those who don't want to wait for a proper implementation should consider this. They're not removing anything from your game by compromising or waiting a bit to properly implement the feature. If they chose to go through with this, they will remove something that a lot of people care about, and in worst case scenario (deleting data), they won't be able to give it back. This won't be a "We'll fix it in the next patch", it'll be a "I'm sorry, but the data from your individual characters are gone, we can't bring it back."

I shouldn't have to tell ZOS this, but I'll do it anyway: Don't rush major changes like these, take your time to implement them properly, that way you'll cause the least amount of damage.

Araneae6537

Salmeyna wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

@Salmeyna If ZOS can create an option for players to choose to configure their accounts that way, great. I’m all for player options, including those I would never wish to touch myself.

I must say that your no compromise hard stance is really unfair though. Surely you must realize that there are players who feel as strongly as you but in the opposite way? To be able to do content again with a different character or not, to do it a different way, or not at all and have some characters noble heroes and others villians, etc. or simply to feel a sense of accomplishment while progressing through dungeons etc. with a new character.

I really hope that ZOS reevaluates how achievements are handled and can give the most players what is most important to them. I care about the enjoyment of players with very different goals and playstyles than me as well as the overall health of the game. If that means I must sacrifice many of my character achievements, little goals and happiness in meeting them, so be it. Make nothing have to be repeatable and no reward or even acknowledgement for doing so. BUT I must be able to interact with the world anew on each character, do any quest I want and not have NPCs interact with my character as if I’d previously done xyz. I have never even heard of an MMORPG that doesn’t at least allow that, however much may be accountwide.

@Araneae6537
Of course i do. That's also what i'm saying. There are people with different playstyles, everyone giving their feedback on their stances in this post. I don't see any no compromise hard stance in my writings. I plead for no overview tab instead of real accountwide achievements. As long as there are accountwide achievements, especially the grindy ones, i'm happy. I support people who want to feel special with a 18xmaster angler or planebreaker. I support people who want some other forms of markings. I also personally don't want all achievements accountwide. I love the museum content, the exploration and the questing, and would love to have that characterspecific. I'm also pretty sure that my personal choice of accountwide/characterspecific achievements is completely irrelevant to anyone. I want to possibility to unlock grindy achievements, especially those that require a group of players, on all my chars, so i don't have to waste my time on that, and can focus on what i enjoy: the world, the stories.
And yes, i totally agree, i would also like to be able to interact with each of my chars individually with the world. And i'm also gladly sacrificing all those achievements i've already grinded on many chars.

I have to say, as i read your post, we seem to agree on most things, so i'm quite perplexed on why you call me out on my hard stance, whatever that entails. Maybe there is a misunderstanding, or maybe i communicate wrongly. English isn't my native language after all, that's a real possibility.

You are right, my apologies, and I edited my post to remove the call-out. I went back and reread your posts and I think I misread the full intent or emphasis. An earlier post especially I had read as essentially calling for ZOS to obliterate character data, no delay, no compromise but in rereading I see that wasn’t a fair understanding. I am very upset about many aspects of what ZOS has implemented on the PTS and that colors my reading and discussion of it.