PTS Update 33 - Feedback Thread for Account Wide Achievements

Balthors

Post to delete

renne

Balthors wrote: »

renne wrote: »

I would like to see the achievement lit up on my main even if it was done on another toon.

So let's just do the text white if one other characters already did it

My wish is just keep other characters achievement tracking.

Yeah, I get that. I just don't know how ZOS finds a middle ground with this, because I want stuff done on other toons to also properly count towards the achievement's completion on my main.

Shnax

Yeah, I get that. I just don't know how ZOS finds a middle ground with this, because I want stuff done on other toons to also properly count towards the achievement's completion on my main.

As it is on the PTS now, if you have done something on an alt and later do it on your main, it will still show as done on the account by that alt and you will never get your main credited for it.

Balthors

Post to delete

kind_hero

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

I've never had a permanent raid. In all 8 years I've been playing, I've changed about seven or six raids. But even if I had a permanent raid, I would not ask other people to raid, for my sake to get these achievements for other characters. This is not pretty, as it requires other people to spend several evenings. Especially if it's triple achievements. I was literally lucky that the raid where we got the GH did another run where I was able to get this achievement in the main. And again, I was literally lucky that in the next raid I was able to take a place under the right class in the raid for my main character in order to get DB. All other raids I had to play alts. Therefore, when Gina announced on the stream that finally the achievements would be account wide, I was very happy. Finally, I can conquer content without worrying that my progress is actually passing by. I can freely choose any raid, and not just the one where there was a slot for the class of my main character. I can freely not only choose a class, but also a role. I finally felt free in this regard.
I also don't see anything wrong with titles being account-wide. Yes, it's a bit illogical, but it's very convenient that I can actually always show what I have achieved on any of my characters. Yes, this puts the player above the character, but I think it's pretty correct.

Correct, this is a problem in raids where sometimes you need to play a specific class. But the cost of solving this problem creates issues with greater consequences and will affect the "play as you want" style of a larger player base than those in your situation.

I would also like to have a certain achievement on my main or alt. But sacrificing the character achievement progression like it is now on the server, is not the price I want to pay. And many people here are on the same page with me.
I do not raid, so besides some vet mode clears like vanilla raids and vAS, I don't hunt raid achievements. But I understand how important they are, because I did a lot of raiding before ESO started, in WoW.

Thing is, I completed most of the things I care about with my main, like story progression, zones, Caldwell's, crafting, etc. Merging everything like we are shown, will remove a lot of the motivation to replay some of the things I've done with my main on the few alts I have. And I enjoy these alts, especially because I can go in a zone where I achieved nothing, and start progressing through the story and zone, completing delves, public dungeons, doing the quest for each city, and so on. With account wide, all this will be lost, the quests will be just grind that I do not need. There is no feeling of progression, NPCs already react to you like you've saved their lives, the content is done. All I can do is to find some other thing that my main hasn't done yet, but maybe I don't care /have time for those activities.

People have asked for a class change (that would solve the problem with the titles in optimized raids), but instead we are getting a sledge hammer over the achievement system.

Foto1

renne wrote: »

Balthors wrote: »

If the character logged don't have the achievement but others got it, just add a mention like "this characters don't earn it", or keep the text grey like now, but as I show before, with the list of other characters did. So you still can see and prove you already did the achievement.

Account Wide Achievements will be still available, and we don't lost what we did before, and still keep the pleasure to get achievements on other / new characters.

That really simple and everyone will be satisfied, no ?

No, they won't.

Because no thank you I would like to see the achievement lit up on my main even if it was done on another toon. I would like all toons to have equal chance of being my main without having to grind through everything I've already done on that main on another toon because it still says that I haven't done that content.

but you will still know that you did not do this on a specific character

tmbrinks

renne wrote: »

Balthors wrote: »

If the character logged don't have the achievement but others got it, just add a mention like "this characters don't earn it", or keep the text grey like now, but as I show before, with the list of other characters did. So you still can see and prove you already did the achievement.

Account Wide Achievements will be still available, and we don't lost what we did before, and still keep the pleasure to get achievements on other / new characters.

That really simple and everyone will be satisfied, no ?

No, they won't.

Because no thank you I would like to see the achievement lit up on my main even if it was done on another toon. I would like all toons to have equal chance of being my main without having to grind through everything I've already done on that main on another toon because it still says that I haven't done that content.

Have you been on the PTS to test it? If you "get" the item on another character to complete the collection it will forever say "Earned by: NOT MAIN CHARACTER" That sounds like the antithesis of what you're looking for.

Ek1

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Do you have any other general feedback?

In a very short sentence, is this needed as its general effect is already achieved through several add-on's?

It seems the main goal of this system and implementation is to give the player sense of total achievement number or much content is left to explore but there is handful of add-on's that pool and keep track of your total points as pointed out by several others.

If the goal is reduce grind same things over and over again, as it seems to been the theme lately, then its unclear why some cases this system will reduce that grind and some cases does not. Titles and achievements from content that is usually request to post links but not those that actually people hate grind like skyshards, guild quests and so on? Conveniently those are behind a pay wall aka crown store. I understand the gaming company has employers and those have mortgages to pay but for the price of getting a new character ready for some serious playing through those crown store time savers you could buy a totally new AAA rated game or years worth of subscription. I leave the discussion about how it would be good idea to drop one zero out of crown store items to increase its popularity to another thread and focus to the point that this is half baked idea how to help post about achievements they have done in some other character they just are not on right now. (Just use a achievement generator add-on for the link like rest of people).

As Ogilvy so well said

Comrade_Ogilvy wrote: »

[...]essentially destroys all that individual character progression (who did what and when) and their individual histories and their individual journeys. As is, this implementation is simply nuking all individual character progression - their back-story, journey, progress and virtual lives - into oblivion.

the present account wide implementation would create account wide copies of the characters with just different names and races.

As from developer standpoint, this will also nuke all kind of tracking done by achievements.

So it would better solution to collect those achievements to an ghost character (tech terms: account wide variable) where from the player could post the links or grab the titles and still keep each characters individual progression.

Or live up the account wide promise and lets finally stop this guild grind, skyshard grind and prerequest grind. Because that's the promise and dread of saying account wide.

Or remove the essential flag from those NPCs running to us over and over and over again offering the same quests we have done. That's literally the only reason I am doing quests anymore after first time.

Parasaurolophus

kargen27 wrote: »

So basically I won't be able to work for achievements on my main if another character reached that achievement. For achievements I've not yet finished on any character all characters contribute meaning I can't earn those achievements on any character.

Going for one achievement multiple times is gone.

So why have more than one character? Just open up all skills so a nightblade can use templar skills if they want and be done with it.

They are wrecking the way many of us play the game. Not wrecking it. Removing it. I see this as akin to just scrapping PvP, or removing trials.

When I have a half hour or so to goof off it is fun to get in game and kill things to try and get a trophy for those achievements on my main. Wow was that a run-on sentence but the point is now there is no incentive for me to bother.

The fact of the matter is that account wide achievement should eliminate the problem of choosing a character to achieve. It doesn't matter which character got the achievement anymore, you can just play safely knowing that your progress is saved for the entire account. Thus, Maine becomes just a favorite character. Honestly, I have nothing against the RP, against the fact that would track the progress of the character. But when it directly harms the overall progress, it greatly spoils the impression. Right now I'm on the verge of getting an immortal redeemer, but this achievement will go past the main "big piggy bank" which will leave me unhappy. I don't have the option to get this on my main character, and I wouldn't want to either. I've already spent two months on this and I don't have the opportunity to spend that much time again. Maybe I'll come back to it someday, but I don't want to right now. I just want to get this achievement for myself, not for the character.
Understand that not all characters have an army of twinks. Not everyone has the opportunity to get GS on at least two or three characters. Such achievements are the work of not only you alone. And I personally am not ready to spend more time for all the other 11 people in the raid to get achievements for all the characters. Yes, and usually no one asks for this, [snip] you need to value the time of other people, including those who are satisfied with the fact that they received an achievement on one character.
[snip]
Yes, I agree that due to the attachment of achievement to one character and date, there was confusion. But the very idea of a wide account must be implemented.

[edited for baiting]

Elsonso

renne wrote: »

Balthors wrote: »

renne wrote: »

I would like to see the achievement lit up on my main even if it was done on another toon.

So let's just do the text white if one other characters already did it

My wish is just keep other characters achievement tracking.

Yeah, I get that. I just don't know how ZOS finds a middle ground with this, because I want stuff done on other toons to also properly count towards the achievement's completion on my main.

It's not rocket science to do that. I don't think you need to worry, though. ZOS usually forges forward with things like this, no middle ground will be necessary.

tmbrinks

I truly can't understand how there are people that are so against those of us that simply still want to be able to see what our individual characters have done in game.

When what has been thought of as a compromise accomplishes all that you're asking for (unless you have a self-admitted obsession of getting ALL achievements on ALL characters, which ironically the same arguments being used show that that is an impossibility), but doesn't destroy 8 years, and countless hours of replayability in the game.

Elsonso wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Balthors wrote: »

renne wrote: »

I would like to see the achievement lit up on my main even if it was done on another toon.

So let's just do the text white if one other characters already did it

My wish is just keep other characters achievement tracking.

Yeah, I get that. I just don't know how ZOS finds a middle ground with this, because I want stuff done on other toons to also properly count towards the achievement's completion on my main.

It's not rocket science to do that. I don't think you need to worry, though. ZOS usually forges forward with things like this, no middle ground will be necessary.

But sadly, this is the most likely outcome. Followed by a significant reduction in playing time for a sizable number of players. And it's not hard to see where that leads...

Parasaurolophus

kind_hero wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

I've never had a permanent raid. In all 8 years I've been playing, I've changed about seven or six raids. But even if I had a permanent raid, I would not ask other people to raid, for my sake to get these achievements for other characters. This is not pretty, as it requires other people to spend several evenings. Especially if it's triple achievements. I was literally lucky that the raid where we got the GH did another run where I was able to get this achievement in the main. And again, I was literally lucky that in the next raid I was able to take a place under the right class in the raid for my main character in order to get DB. All other raids I had to play alts. Therefore, when Gina announced on the stream that finally the achievements would be account wide, I was very happy. Finally, I can conquer content without worrying that my progress is actually passing by. I can freely choose any raid, and not just the one where there was a slot for the class of my main character. I can freely not only choose a class, but also a role. I finally felt free in this regard.
I also don't see anything wrong with titles being account-wide. Yes, it's a bit illogical, but it's very convenient that I can actually always show what I have achieved on any of my characters. Yes, this puts the player above the character, but I think it's pretty correct.

Correct, this is a problem in raids where sometimes you need to play a specific class. But the cost of solving this problem creates issues with greater consequences and will affect the "play as you want" style of a larger player base than those in your situation.

I would also like to have a certain achievement on my main or alt. But sacrificing the character achievement progression like it is now on the server, is not the price I want to pay. And many people here are on the same page with me.
I do not raid, so besides some vet mode clears like vanilla raids and vAS, I don't hunt raid achievements. But I understand how important they are, because I did a lot of raiding before ESO started, in WoW.

Thing is, I completed most of the things I care about with my main, like story progression, zones, Caldwell's, crafting, etc. Merging everything like we are shown, will remove a lot of the motivation to replay some of the things I've done with my main on the few alts I have. And I enjoy these alts, especially because I can go in a zone where I achieved nothing, and start progressing through the story and zone, completing delves, public dungeons, doing the quest for each city, and so on. With account wide, all this will be lost, the quests will be just grind that I do not need. There is no feeling of progression, NPCs already react to you like you've saved their lives, the content is done. All I can do is to find some other thing that my main hasn't done yet, but maybe I don't care /have time for those activities.

People have asked for a class change (that would solve the problem with the titles in optimized raids), but instead we are getting a sledge hammer over the achievement system.

Let's look at it from the other side. Well, you care about RP and it is important for you that the character has his own history and identification through the achievement system. I understand this, because in fact I am also far from being a player who sees only numbers and tables in the game. However, there are a number of achievements in the game that I would prefer not to do, but I did them and now I regret, because they contradict the RP for my main character. I'm talking about the Dark Brotherhood and a number of crime achievements in general that I'd like to avoid. However, account wide achovments could save me from this in the future. For example, I could complete the Blackwood main quest on another character and not tell Eveli that I am a member of the Dark Brotherhood so as not to remember this once again and not ruin my own RP. Now I could get all these achievements with a completely different "evil" character. So my desire to get all the achievements and the desire not to desecrate the character's RP would be feasible and I would have no to regret what I did later or worry about incomplete progress.
I also fully support changing the class of a character, but I wouldn't want to change the main class every time it's necessary. Today I'm a templar, tomorrow I'm a necro? And the day after tomorrow again templar? In my opinion, this would hurt RP much more than account wide achievements and titles.

RaddlemanNumber7

If you have a "No Kill" character, like I do, and you use the Character achievements kill counts to validate that character's clean sheet, then you are [snip] out of luck, like I am. All I did with him on PTS is log in, and suddenly ...

Live NA


PTS


This is what moving the goal posts after 8 years does.

I know this is a bit niche, but it is an example of playing the game as you want to play.

[edited for profanity bypass]

Balthors

Post to delete

Elsonso

tmbrinks wrote: »

I truly can't understand how there are people that are so against those of us that simply still want to be able to see what our individual characters have done in game.

Elsonso wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Balthors wrote: »

renne wrote: »

I would like to see the achievement lit up on my main even if it was done on another toon.

My wish is just keep other characters achievement tracking.

Yeah, I get that. I just don't know how ZOS finds a middle ground with this, because I want stuff done on other toons to also properly count towards the achievement's completion on my main.

It's not rocket science to do that. I don't think you need to worry, though. ZOS usually forges forward with things like this, no middle ground will be necessary.

But sadly, this is the most likely outcome. Followed by a significant reduction in playing time for a sizable number of players. And it's not hard to see where that leads...

Well, maybe this is a wakeup call.

silvereyes

tmbrinks wrote: »

I truly can't understand how there are people that are so against those of us that simply still want to be able to see what our individual characters have done in game.

I don't want to put words into others' mouths, so if any of the following is inaccurate, please correct me.

From what I've been able to glean reading others' posts, the main point of contention from people who are actively against keeping any sort of character tracking in achievements is that it defeats the point of what they want in an account-wide achievements system. They have a goal of completing all the achievements, of checking all the boxes. It's why they play the game, and it's what they find fun.

They would like to try new characters, but any time they create a new character, it would create a brand new, empty checklist to fill in.

One might tell them to simply ignore the character achievements and set their goals based upon earning all account achievements, but that's not how the completionist mindset works. As long as the game offers checkboxes somewhere, the fact that some are empty will compel such players to want to check them all, even if they are hidden.

Would these players survive if character-specific tracking were added? Probably. The situation wouldn't be any worse for them than live is today, and it would have the added benefits for them of at least account-wide titles and achievement vendors. But it would be sad for them, after getting their hopes up that they would finally be able to make new characters without killing their completionist progression.

ealdwin

I'm largely in agreement with what seems to be the multitude in this thread, that more thought and work should go into this. Forgive me if a few of these points have already been said or hashed out at this point, but the thread is 22 pages long and I'm just now entering the discussion.

Account-Wide Achievements and Character Achievements should be separate things and viewable through different tabs. Account-Wide Achievements would not combine totals, but rather record which characters have achieved each achievement. Character Achievements would record those achievements earned by the current character. That way if someone is doing different activities on different characters (such as Questing char, Crime char, PVP char, & Crafting char) they would be able to see that as a Player, all that they have achieved on one screen in-game, but would also be able to see those achievements which each character has uniquely earned.

The current implementation is poor because it erases unique character achievements.

The other thing that needs added is a Setting to Hide Account-Wide titles. All this would do is change the dataset available in the title drop down in the character tab. With Hide Account-Wide titles on, players would only be able to see and use those titles which that character has earned.

That's my two-cents.

IronWooshu

They are gonna go ahead with this heavy handed change that is terrible.

The name completion by is terrible, especially if an alt that gets it and then gets deleted later that name is forever etched on achievements. This also is counter intuitive on play how you want to play since it makes me still stick to my main so my alts names don't take the achievement away from my main.

Solution: Scrap the name achieved by completely.

As is there is no middle ground for those wanting individual tracking and those wanting global completion. Sacrifices need to be made on both side for a common balance.

Solution: Any achievement not earned by an alt shows as completed but it is just a white title, when completing the achievement on the alt, the title changes color to a yellow or orange (can be any color) OR the achievements are greyed out on the alt but still show completed and achievement score is still shown account wide.

Zone guide tracking currently on the PTS shows completion for alts.. this kills all replayability, I and many others I've talked to that were all for global achievements hate this idea. This seems like an oversight or just a haphazard last minute "we need to sell this year so let's add global achievements" change at the last minute.

Solution: Make alts zone guides incomplete untill they complete it themselves. Delves shouldn't show completed on an alt in the zone guide until they are completed on an alt especially with how many people play trying to actually kill and get the delve boss to spawn on an alt is going to be a nightmare.

This last solution with the zone guide can go hand in hand with the color change for achievements when the alt earns them. You could even scrap the color change and do WoW did and have them greyed out. At least a game company like Blizzard with many internal issues can still get things right with the playerbase when making global achievements.

Please don't let this current iteration go live ZoS.

ealdwin

One more thought:

Would a poll be at all useful, just a simple: Should Account-Wide Achievements as is go live? Yes or No. Not for discussion purposes, but in a more quantitative feedback for ZOS way?

IronWooshu

ealdwin wrote: »

One more thought:

Would a poll be at all useful, just a simple: Should Account-Wide Achievements as is go live? Yes or No. Not for discussion purposes, but in a more quantitative feedback for ZOS way?

This forum makes up probably not even 1% of the games population. It will be as biased as Nefas poll on his channel was where his followers are just an echo chamber.

TequilaFire

I am mostly concerned about game breaking bugs that seem to be being caused by the current iteration.

silvereyes

ealdwin wrote: »

One more thought:

Would a poll be at all useful, just a simple: Should Account-Wide Achievements as is go live? Yes or No. Not for discussion purposes, but in a more quantitative feedback for ZOS way?

I don’t know what it would accomplish, besides pitting players against one another. If the devs don’t know there are a lot of upset people by now, yet another poll isn’t going to change that.

NerfSeige

IronWooshu wrote: »

ealdwin wrote: »

One more thought:

Would a poll be at all useful, just a simple: Should Account-Wide Achievements as is go live? Yes or No. Not for discussion purposes, but in a more quantitative feedback for ZOS way?

This forum makes up probably not even 1% of the games population. It will be as biased as Nefas poll on his channel was where his followers are just an echo chamber.

In game poll should be doable, 1 week, and you can change your answer within the time frame.

Kesstryl

Mycroftz wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

You can repeat quests and get the quest reward on as many characters as you like. You just won't get an achievement for it.

You can’t repeat quests that can only be done once, and if the system overwrites your achievements in a way that auto-completes these for you, then you won’t be able to do these quests on all toons.

As someone who has mutliple characters who I RP with, I DON'T WANT THIS! I don't want my other characters locked out of quest content because one of them already got the achievement for this. I don't want the stories messed up like this. I play ESO for the stories and quests, and this will ruin the reason I play big time!

If this goes live and I lose the ability to replay content on my alts because of some account wide achievement, I will not buy more content from you ZOS! I will not buy another Chapter or DLC because being able to replay the stories is part of what I want. If you make it so I can ever only do it once, I'm out. I re-watch favorite movies, re-read favorite books, and re-play favorite games, this one included. I would not want to be locked out of doing Greymoor or Blackwood, or the Ravenwatch quests in Rivenspire just because of some global achievement. I want to be able to replay all the stories because I enjoy them enough to go through them again. This will destroy any reason to buy new content if I can't replay it.

ealdwin

silvereyes wrote: »

ealdwin wrote: »

One more thought:

Would a poll be at all useful, just a simple: Should Account-Wide Achievements as is go live? Yes or No. Not for discussion purposes, but in a more quantitative feedback for ZOS way?

I don’t know what it would accomplish, besides pitting players against one another. If the devs don’t know there are a lot of upset people by now, yet another poll isn’t going to change that.

That's fair. It was just a random thought about if there would be another way to put a rough quantity or ratio to the feedback.

Elsonso

silvereyes wrote: »

If the devs don’t know there are a lot of upset people by now, yet another poll isn’t going to change that.

I am pretty sure they knew long before they even told us they were going to do this. It didn't require a fortune teller to predict this would happen.

TequilaFire wrote: »

I am mostly concerned about game breaking bugs that seem to be being caused by the current iteration.

This is what I expect they will focus on over the next couple of weeks. I am not sure what they will consider "game breaking", but there will be things fixed.

silvereyes

@ZOS_GinaBruno, any chance we can get a Known Issues section added to Monday's PTS patch notes? Not knowing if some things like dolmens, delves and world-bosses auto-completing are intentional or bugs is driving a lot of us a bit crazy. Same thing with quest completion, where alts are seeing their quest progress change due to account-wide achievements.

wolfie1.0.

If this is going live and as is and there wont be a compromise then these are the changes that should

• Delves/Dungeons/Trials/Dolmens(or equivalent) and "group" bosses don't mark complete on map or list until your character completes the associated quest on each map
• Remove all dialogue that is related to achievements and make those instead related to character quest completion. I do not want to hear how i have slain molag bal or other such nonsense on a character that just had their soul removed by mr bal. or how i conquered this or that when i haven't gotten to that content yet.
• In the journal create a register of ALL of the quests my character has or has not completed
• In the Journal enable the ability to track/look up quests and if they award skill points, or other rewards, IE Cadwells Silver/gold only reinforced and includes guild quests and other ways to track progression.
• Collection quests need to be accessible at the character level, including associated rewards.
• Companion Rapport either needs to be made account wide or Rapport related quests need to be fixed
• Enable characters to hold more than 25 quests at a time
• Lift the 50 repeatable daily quest limit. If your going to remove the incentive for me to play alternative characters then I at least want the option to do as many daily quests as i can each day. I should be able to do EVERY quest option at least once.

you should be able to at least do this. Please note that i am not asking for achievements to be personalized per character. I am asking for more robust resources to track quest completion and questing options. I also want the ability to quest HOW i want and not have it impact my gameplay. I want to be able to make different choices on different characters. I want the appearance that those choices matter. If i can't have the hope of grinding achievements on multiple characters then i at least want the ability to grind as many daily repeatable quests as i can each day, and not be capped.

proprio.meb16_ESO

Not sure they were fully aware of broken quests, at least when they announced and first implemented AWA...

i don't care about titles or anything, but definitely want to be able to replay quests and content with a new toon.. all quests that are linked to achvs must be checked and eventually fixed before u33 release... it makes no sense a quest being advanced on multiple characters (maybe in parallel) due to it being linked to an achievement... it's not even bad, it's just stupid.

Tandor

silvereyes wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno, any chance we can get a Known Issues section added to Monday's PTS patch notes? Not knowing if some things like dolmens, delves and world-bosses auto-completing are intentional or bugs is driving a lot of us a bit crazy. Same thing with quest completion, where alts are seeing their quest progress change due to account-wide achievements.

Agreed, but more than that we need a statement indicating exactly what they were aiming for in implementing this change and why.

So much of it doesn't make any sense even for those who wanted account-wide achievements, and it has all the appearance of a last-minute addition to the base game changes for this Update which wasn't properly tested and for which the players were never consulted despite it wrecking the basis on which a lot of us have played the game and developed our characters over the past 8 years. It needs to be pulled and reintroduced when it has been properly redesigned and tested following thorough consideration and consultation. There isn't time to do all that before this Update goes Live.