Account Wide Titles ruin Titles

Jaraal

Dojohoda wrote: »

AVA titles better not be included.

Vevvev wrote: »

When I see people in PvP with Flawless Conqueror, Grand Overlord, or any other number of personally achieved high ranking titles I know what to expect from that character. Now a level 3 could be sporting all of these titles, but so weak they couldn't harm a fly. I don't like this change one bit.

Granted, it's just a video game. But the principle that a lot of folks are basing their opinion on is stolen valor. Some people have no problem wearing medals they bought off eBay in public, on a uniform they never took an oath to wear. These are real life roleplayers. And yet, you can find many people who take offense at this, as they feel it cheapens the experiences of those who actually earned those medals. And the opinions about such behavior run the entire spectrum of thought.

As an achievement hunter, (primarily in PvP), I know the amount of work that goes into some of the more involved achievements/titles. And there's a certain personal satisfaction that comes with knowing you put in the work with multiple characters. Personally, I'm impressed when I see "Former Emperor" or "Grand Overlord" over the head of multiple characters with the same @ name, because I realize this is someone who's dedicated and has put in the work for their faction multiple times on several different toons. And with the original system there is no doubt that the character you see with that title over their head has put in the work. With the new system, everyone will view your character with skepticism as to whether they actually took the time to do it more than once. And I totally get the forseeable lack of motivation to play that many are voicing, because that's what keeps folks like me logging into the game. The desire to achieve things on multiple characters, and knowing that everyone who sees you on that toon has no doubt that you got it done on this charatcer as well.

In my opinion, this is ZOS's version of "participation trophies for everyone." It devalues the work some of us put in on multiple differently built and specced characters. I respect someone who has "The Flawless Conquerer" on ten toons more than I do someone who has it on one, because there's no doubt that they have mastered the arena in multiple ways to a rare degree. And they deserve the unspoken credit that comes with that.

RedRoomGaming

So what you’re saying is that it’s pointless me trying to get master angler on another toon? I was 3 zones away [snip]

[edited for profanity bypass]

RisenEclipse

I feel like keeping the character achievements and also having an over all account achievement tracker would just solve most of what everyone is worried about...

Elsonso

Jazraena wrote: »

You not liking the change is fair game. I don't understand why, but it's absolutely fair game. But if you're reasoning is roleplaying then something's off, because the moment the mere presence of an achievement becomes a problem is the moment you're breaking the role.

The achievements are part of the behind the scenes record keeping, the character sheet if you will. It is obviously a problem for some people.

spartaxoxo

RisenEclipse wrote: »

I feel like keeping the character achievements and also having an over all account achievement tracker would just solve most of what everyone is worried about...

It will solve almost none of what everyone is worried about...

People want to be able to equip titles they earned on one character or another, so they have more freedom to play the character they want to play doing hard content rather than worrying about it being the "wrong" character

People want to be able to use their titles as a cosmetic option

People want to reduce the amount of grind they need to do get their achievement points up.

ETC ETC ETC

None of the things people are most excited about with this change is helped by a mere tracker. A tracker is still just character achievements, it is not a compromise solution because people who want account wide achievements get none of what they want. If you want both sides to get what they want, both sides have to get what they want. And that means the option to fully use account wide achievements, not just something that rubs it in that you got an achievement on the wrong character.

Something like the option to opt out of syncing a character with the account achievements is a compromise solution, because then people who want to earn stuff on their individual character instead of having it unlocked automatically can OPT not to use account wide achievements.

Gaebriel0410

"Jaraal wrote:

Granted, it's just a video game. But the principle that a lot of folks are basing their opinion on is stolen valor. Some people have no problem wearing medals they bought off eBay in public, on a uniform they never took an oath to wear. These are real life roleplayers. And yet, you can find many people who take offense at this, as they feel it cheapens the experiences of those who actually earned those medals. And the opinions about such behavior run the entire spectrum of thought.

I've never heard about that term ever, but what you describe is not roleplaying.

It would only be roleplaying if what you described was happening in a setting, where those people played characters: decorated soldiers in your example. In which case it doesn't matter if the players took an oath to wear their uniform, since roleplaying is about what the characters do instead. What you describe is just some people wearing military gear and (I think?) pretending to be soldiers.

For some bizarre reason on this forum the term roleplaying often tends to be used as some kind of weird derogative way to describe all kinds of things that players do not like. Look how often you see 'RP build' or 'RP play how you want player' being used as an example of someone not as good / knowledgeable / hardcore as the writer desperately pretends to be (not the writer of the quote ofc, I mean in general). So as a roleplayer, I facepalm hard whenever I see the term being used again, to describe something a player doesn't like.

Lady_Galadhiel

Jaraal wrote: »

In my opinion, this is ZOS's version of "participation trophies for everyone." It devalues the work some of us put in on multiple differently built and specced characters. I respect someone who has "The Flawless Conquerer" on ten toons more than I do someone who has it on one, because there's no doubt that they have mastered the arena in multiple ways to a rare degree. And they deserve the unspoken credit that comes with that.

^^^
Couldn't say it any better.

RisenEclipse

spartaxoxo wrote: »

RisenEclipse wrote: »

I feel like keeping the character achievements and also having an over all account achievement tracker would just solve most of what everyone is worried about...

It will solve almost none of what everyone is worried about...

People want to be able to equip titles they earned on one character or another, so they have more freedom to play the character they want to play doing hard content rather than worrying about it being the "wrong" character

People want to be able to use their titles as a cosmetic option

People want to reduce the amount of grind they need to do get their achievement points up.

ETC ETC ETC

None of the things people are most excited about with this change is helped by a mere tracker. A tracker is still just character achievements, it is not a compromise solution because people who want account wide achievements get none of what they want. If you want both sides to get what they want, both sides have to get what they want. And that means the option to fully use account wide achievements, not just something that rubs it in that you got an achievement on the wrong character.

Something like the option to opt out of syncing a character with the account achievements is a compromise solution, because then people who want to earn stuff on their individual character instead of having it unlocked automatically can OPT not to use account wide achievements.

Actually, I've been reading this thread and I'm also seeing other people saying the exact opposite of what you're saying the people want. So honestly no matter what they'll do, a portion of the community will be upset with it. At this point, finding a middle to agree on is the best option imo.

spartaxoxo

Participation trophy? A player earns those titles. Your character isn't real. They didn't earn anything. Buying a carry is a participation trophy. Wearing a title that YOU earned is just using your cosmetics that YOU earned as you see fit.

Mayrael

Tandor wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

This kind of threads show that you can't please all the people no matter what. Some want account wide achievements, some doesn't want them at all, some want it to be just partial, others want it to be optional and everyone thinks that he's point is the most important/correct.

Game is evolving, things are going to change.

I appreciate the fact that devs listened to player base who was asking for this for so many years, and it seemed that majority supported this idea so I don't understand current uproar against it.

You've answered your own point. Some want it for everything, some want it for some things but not other things, some don't want it at all. There's no clear majority for any particular option, so there's no real justification for making such a significant change (other than as an optional one).

Well, let me put it another way. Where were all the people who objected to such changes when account wide achievement threads were discussed in the past. To me it's just a small change, but even I, who don't pay much attention to it, came to the conclusion that it's not an unwanted change because I didn't see much opposition before.

Let me put it this way. With all due respect to the RP community, but it's a minority in ESO, even pure PvP players outnumber role players, so forgive me but I get the impression that the majority however will be happy with such a change.

For me personally it's a change that doesn't bring much (I'm much more excited about the new hybridization possibilities) but if I had to evaluate it on the plus or minus it's a positive change for me and I have 18 characters I play regularly.

Csleia

Sandman929 wrote: »

I like Account wide titles, but those who don't have made better arguments based on how ZOS seems to be implementing this.
If it is the Player who earns the achievements, not the character, then why should some things be excluded...like Alliance War ranks, Emperor, Skyshards, etc?
The player achieved those goals, the same as any Trial achievements, and making some Account wide but not others makes no sense.

if it is the player who earned the achievement not the character?

ok, when the player earns achievements for all the trifectas what is left in endgame besides scorepushing?

im not talking about the casual player getting flawless conqueror, im talking about dawnbringer, godslayer, planesbreaker, etc, dungeon trifectas too

the backbone of eso endgame is players with experience and clears going onto new characters without the achievements to help others climb that ladder, we do not go back for these trifectas on the same character, we switch to a new character that doesnt have it

and this same concept applies to roleplayers too, would you go back to get master angler on the SAME CHARACTER THAT ALREADY HAS IT?
or switch characters, replay value

Jaraal

Gaebriel0410 wrote: »

It would only be roleplaying if what you described was happening in a setting, where those people played characters: decorated soldiers in your example. In which case it doesn't matter if the players took an oath to wear their uniform, since roleplaying is about what the characters do instead. What you describe is just some people wearing military gear and (I think?) pretending to be soldiers.

Which is exactly what we do in this game. Put on various gear that people can view, and pretend to be soldiers.

spartaxoxo

Mayrael wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

This kind of threads show that you can't please all the people no matter what. Some want account wide achievements, some doesn't want them at all, some want it to be just partial, others want it to be optional and everyone thinks that he's point is the most important/correct.

Game is evolving, things are going to change.

I appreciate the fact that devs listened to player base who was asking for this for so many years, and it seemed that majority supported this idea so I don't understand current uproar against it.

You've answered your own point. Some want it for everything, some want it for some things but not other things, some don't want it at all. There's no clear majority for any particular option, so there's no real justification for making such a significant change (other than as an optional one).

Well, let me put it another way. Where were all the people who objected to such changes when account wide achievement threads were discussed in the past. To me it's just a small change, but even I, who don't pay much attention to it, came to the conclusion that it's not an unwanted change because I didn't see much opposition before.

Let me put it this way. With all due respect to the RP community, but it's a minority in ESO, even pure PvP players outnumber role players, so forgive me but I get the impression that the majority however will be happy with such a change.

For me personally it's a change that doesn't bring much (I'm much more excited about the new hybridization possibilities) but if I had to evaluate it on the plus or minus it's a positive change for me and I have 18 characters I play regularly.

It's not even a net negative to roleplaying and in fact, it enhances for many roleplayers. They use it as yet another cosmetic to build the backstory of their characters and act consistently with the backstory. They might equip the title Master Thief, give them the theif personality, dress them all in black, toss their CP points into thieving, and play a nightblade. Then they will pick quests that go along with this crafted persona and maybe even talk to guildmates in character as this Master Thief.

Jaraal

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Participation trophy? A player earns those titles. Your character isn't real. They didn't earn anything. Buying a carry is a participation trophy. Wearing a title that YOU earned is just using your cosmetics that YOU earned as you see fit.

It's not just a cosmetic if a title I earned easily on my Stam DK is unobtainable on my magsorc (for now). But if I learn the build and become good enough to get the achievement with that character, there's a personal satisfaction that I earned it, not just selected from a dropdown menu.

blktauna

RedRoomGaming wrote: »

So what you’re saying is that it’s pointless me trying to get master angler on another toon? I was 3 zones away [snip]

Why would you stop? If you want to do the thing on that toon, do the thing.

[edited to remove quote]

Serenez

There is no right or wrong way to roleplay as people play the game for their own personal enjoyment. What roleplaying means to one person, could be entirely different to another. I do not role play but respect that some people are upset by this.

Based on the responses on this topic there are people who want account wide achievements, those who do not want account wide achievements and those that are ok with it as long as they have customizable options/and or exclusions.

There are some concerns expressed that having account wide 'titles' will devalue the time and effort someone has put into obtaining those achievements on multiple characters. There are also game economy issues that need to be taken into consideration as some achievements are directly linked to the crafting economy.

There is no one solution that is going to please everyone, however some compromises can possibly be addressed.
1. Having a toggle at the character log in screen and at character creation to OPT IN to account wide achievements.
2. On certain time consuming titles - only having the character that earned the title - be able to equip the title to maintain the integrity of the title. Players that have spent months and years obtaining titles on multiple characters, really imo should feel proud of that accomplishment and should not have it devalued.
3. Exclude any achievements that have direct economic consequences. Recipe/Motif/Rune knowledge and any other crafting achievements that affect Master Writ drop rate. (many of these have already been addressed in the live stream).
4. Have an account wide achievement tracking system at a glance, which can be viewed on all characters.

People all play video games differently. so of course there is going to be varying opinions. I do not understand myself the entire role playing aspect of the game, however guild mates or in game friends that role play, I try to respect their way that they play.

As expressed in this thread, many people like to control what achievements they have on each character and some players use the achievement system as a goal for their gameplay and enjoy unlocking each achievement on each character. This is what has kept this type of player attached to the game for multiple years. Some players make entirely new accounts even to accomplish this same goal out of boredom. Not everyone is going to understand that, as they do not play in this manner. It is what it is, and whether people understand this game play or not, it is part of the player base. It may be a much larger player base than what is shown on the forums here, as not everyone comes to the forums or are on social media. Without an option to OPT OUT of these Account Wide Achievements, this player base may decide to leave the game, cancel their memberships as this method of game play is the only motivation they have if they have already accomplished achievements on a main character.

Other players with alts play completely different to this. They want these account wide achievements so they don't have to keep switching back and forth to continue their progress. It is a time saver and to this player base it is more efficient. I can respect this viewpoint as well.

A delicate balance to appease those who wish time efficiency while also appeasing those that want the integrity of the time based achievements (especially months/years worth) to be maintained. Then combine that with those who want to earn each achievement individually on each character for role playing / for goal related game play and motivation.

I hope that the Development team take these varying opinions into consideration. I would get more input on what people's concerns are surrounding this by reaching out via email survey, in game survey as not everyone goes to the forum, or pays attention to Reddit or Facebook. This is quite evident in the Communications post feedback thread.

Drdeath20

Somebody else’s suggestion but…

On character that earned the title it’s golded

On other characters it’s not colorized.

That way it shows you have done it but just not on this character.

Tandor

RisenEclipse wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

RisenEclipse wrote: »

I feel like keeping the character achievements and also having an over all account achievement tracker would just solve most of what everyone is worried about...

It will solve almost none of what everyone is worried about...

People want to be able to equip titles they earned on one character or another, so they have more freedom to play the character they want to play doing hard content rather than worrying about it being the "wrong" character

People want to be able to use their titles as a cosmetic option

People want to reduce the amount of grind they need to do get their achievement points up.

ETC ETC ETC

None of the things people are most excited about with this change is helped by a mere tracker. A tracker is still just character achievements, it is not a compromise solution because people who want account wide achievements get none of what they want. If you want both sides to get what they want, both sides have to get what they want. And that means the option to fully use account wide achievements, not just something that rubs it in that you got an achievement on the wrong character.

Something like the option to opt out of syncing a character with the account achievements is a compromise solution, because then people who want to earn stuff on their individual character instead of having it unlocked automatically can OPT not to use account wide achievements.

Actually, I've been reading this thread and I'm also seeing other people saying the exact opposite of what you're saying the people want. So honestly no matter what they'll do, a portion of the community will be upset with it. At this point, finding a middle to agree on is the best option imo.

Or, failing that, leave well alone. There is absolutely no point in switching a system that only 50% of the people like to another one that only the other 50% of the people will like. That's why ZOS leave the Guild Trading system as it is rather than switching to an Auction House system, and it's why they leave the pure PvE Justice System as it is rather than switching it to a PvE system with PvP penalties. They know that doing those things would turn on half the community but turn off the other half, so why do it? Yet for some as yet unexplained reason they seem keen to make this switch in exactly the same circumstances as those. I can only assume that they didn't realise how controversial it would be. Hopefully they now will. If they can't make it optional then they could at least pull it from this coming PTS cycle and only reintroduce it as and when they've addressed the controversial aspects of it.

adriant1978

Serenez wrote: »

Based on the responses on this topic there are people who want account wide achievements, those who do not want account wide achievements and those that are ok with it as long as they have customizable options/and or exclusions.

There are also people who literally don't care a jot about achievements, account wide or otherwise ... or maybe just me.

Sylvermynx

adriant1978 wrote: »

Serenez wrote: »

Based on the responses on this topic there are people who want account wide achievements, those who do not want account wide achievements and those that are ok with it as long as they have customizable options/and or exclusions.

There are also people who literally don't care a jot about achievements, account wide or otherwise ... or maybe just me.

Nope, not just you.

Gaebriel0410

Mayrael wrote: »

Let me put it this way. With all due respect to the RP community, but it's a minority in ESO, even pure PvP players outnumber role players, so forgive me but I get the impression that the majority however will be happy with such a change.

From what I've seen so far, most people in the RP community actually love the accountwide changes, I know I do, since it allows us to use extra customizations we earned (titles) on all of our characters. If there's 'inappropriate' titles for our characters, we simply don't use them. And for roleplayers, it's common to seperate gameplay from RP to a certain extent, since it would make no sense if everyone was the Main Hero, hence we tend to play 'regular' characters in the TES setting.

Most of the people citing RP reasons to not have account wide achievements, seem to be talking about wanting to keep their characters strictly seperate from each other. But that has nothing to do with the actual RP community. ^^

(Though I'm not sure about that minority thing, that's impossible to count so it just depends on who you hang out with, from my perspective the RP community outnumbers the others by far, since that's the players I tend to play with).

Tandor

Gaebriel0410 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Let me put it this way. With all due respect to the RP community, but it's a minority in ESO, even pure PvP players outnumber role players, so forgive me but I get the impression that the majority however will be happy with such a change.

From what I've seen so far, most people in the RP community actually love the accountwide changes, I know I do, since it allows us to use extra customizations we earned (titles) on all of our characters. If there's 'inappropriate' titles for our characters, we simply don't use them. And for roleplayers, it's common to seperate gameplay from RP to a certain extent, since it would make no sense if everyone was the Main Hero, hence we tend to play 'regular' characters in the TES setting.

Most of the people citing RP reasons to not have account wide achievements, seem to be talking about wanting to keep their characters strictly seperate from each other. But that has nothing to do with the actual RP community. ^^

(Though I'm not sure about that minority thing, that's impossible to count so it just depends on who you hang out with, from my perspective the RP community outnumbers the others by far, since that's the players I tend to play with).

Nobody has said it does, but just because "the RP community" likes the change doesn't mean that others who role-play in their own way have to like it too. I'm not an active role-player in any formal way, but I do have an Imperial Templar who I play very much as a Paladin and who therefore avoids all Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood content while my Dark Elf Nightblade is played as an Assassin for whom that content is perfect. I want their achievements kept separate, not shared, and that's a perfectly valid opinion coming from my limited role-play perspective, even if it's not the same opinion as that of the "RP community".

WrathOfInnos

This is an interesting issue, and one I can definitely see both sides of.

From a trials title and achievement PoV it will be really nice that you can earn it on any character. Often players will want to complete new content on their "achievement main", which is typically an original class. This results in groups with 6 sorcs and 0 necromancers trying to prog difficult content. Now we'll be able to bring whatever the group needs and still unlock the achievements and titles for the preferred character, even if it is not the current meta.

For repeating content, it does remove some incentive, and will probably make groups harder to fill. It also adds more incentive to do things the first time (18 titles unlocked). For example I did one Planesbreaker after Blackwood released, and I don't have the time or desire to prog it 17 more times for all my characters. This will unlock the earned title for any character suited, a massive QoL change. At the same time it makes me less likely to complete a 2nd or 3rd PB for literally no reward.

Lady_Galadhiel

Tandor wrote: »

Nobody has said it does, but just because "the RP community" likes the change doesn't mean that others who role-play in their own way have to like it too. I'm not an active role-player in any formal way, but I do have an Imperial Templar who I play very much as a Paladin and who therefore avoids all Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood content while my Dark Elf Nightblade is played as an Assassin for whom that content is perfect. I want their achievements kept separate, not shared, and that's a perfectly valid opinion coming from my limited role-play perspective, even if it's not the same opinion as that of the "RP community".

I am in the same boat pretty much, both of my main chars on Eu and Na avoid dark brotherhood, never stepped inside the sanctuary but now all of a sudden they should both get the achievements related to it? I really really hope this stuff will be optional.

Same as the PvP achievement and titles, I literally don't need a Merciless title or an achievement for killing 1000 players on a char wich did never participate in any Battleground.

Elsonso

Gaebriel0410 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Let me put it this way. With all due respect to the RP community, but it's a minority in ESO, even pure PvP players outnumber role players, so forgive me but I get the impression that the majority however will be happy with such a change.

From what I've seen so far, most people in the RP community actually love the accountwide changes, I know I do, since it allows us to use extra customizations we earned (titles) on all of our characters. If there's 'inappropriate' titles for our characters, we simply don't use them. And for roleplayers, it's common to seperate gameplay from RP to a certain extent, since it would make no sense if everyone was the Main Hero, hence we tend to play 'regular' characters in the TES setting.

Most of the people citing RP reasons to not have account wide achievements, seem to be talking about wanting to keep their characters strictly seperate from each other. But that has nothing to do with the actual RP community. ^^

(Though I'm not sure about that minority thing, that's impossible to count so it just depends on who you hang out with, from my perspective the RP community outnumbers the others by far, since that's the players I tend to play with).

There is a distinct difference between a person who role plays and what I think you mean by the "RP community". They overlap, but are not the same thing. I have no idea how much they overlap, but the "RP community" is entirely within the larger group of players that role play.

spartaxoxo

Jaraal wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Participation trophy? A player earns those titles. Your character isn't real. They didn't earn anything. Buying a carry is a participation trophy. Wearing a title that YOU earned is just using your cosmetics that YOU earned as you see fit.

It's not just a cosmetic if a title I earned easily on my Stam DK is unobtainable on my magsorc (for now). But if I learn the build and become good enough to get the achievement with that character, there's a personal satisfaction that I earned it, not just selected from a dropdown menu.

Your personally been more satisifed doesn't mean it's a participation trophy. That title became avaialble because someone earned it and it's just insulting to compare it to something that is given automatically, devalues that the person earned it. I actually understand why you get more personal satisfaction out of earning it a 2nd time but it don't negate this is earning again, not something unearned period. IMO

Elsonso

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Participation trophy? A player earns those titles. Your character isn't real. They didn't earn anything. Buying a carry is a participation trophy. Wearing a title that YOU earned is just using your cosmetics that YOU earned as you see fit.

It's not just a cosmetic if a title I earned easily on my Stam DK is unobtainable on my magsorc (for now). But if I learn the build and become good enough to get the achievement with that character, there's a personal satisfaction that I earned it, not just selected from a dropdown menu.

Your personally been more satisifed doesn't mean it's a participation trophy. That title became avaialble because someone earned it and it's just insulting to compare it to something that is given automatically, devalues that the person earned it. I actually understand why you get more personal satisfaction out of earning it a 2nd time but it don't negate this is earning again, not something unearned period. IMO

What is sad to me is that all of these diverse, sometimes mutually exclusive, concepts sort of co-existed in an uneasy truce until Update 33.

spartaxoxo

Elsonso wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Participation trophy? A player earns those titles. Your character isn't real. They didn't earn anything. Buying a carry is a participation trophy. Wearing a title that YOU earned is just using your cosmetics that YOU earned as you see fit.

It's not just a cosmetic if a title I earned easily on my Stam DK is unobtainable on my magsorc (for now). But if I learn the build and become good enough to get the achievement with that character, there's a personal satisfaction that I earned it, not just selected from a dropdown menu.

Your personally been more satisifed doesn't mean it's a participation trophy. That title became avaialble because someone earned it and it's just insulting to compare it to something that is given automatically, devalues that the person earned it. I actually understand why you get more personal satisfaction out of earning it a 2nd time but it don't negate this is earning again, not something unearned period. IMO

What is sad to me is that all of these diverse, sometimes mutually exclusive, concepts sort of co-existed in an uneasy truce until Update 33.

I personally was never satisifed by the achievement systems. A lot of people weren't. We just had no choice but to play the way people who prefer character achievement worked.

tmbrinks

Elsonso wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Participation trophy? A player earns those titles. Your character isn't real. They didn't earn anything. Buying a carry is a participation trophy. Wearing a title that YOU earned is just using your cosmetics that YOU earned as you see fit.

It's not just a cosmetic if a title I earned easily on my Stam DK is unobtainable on my magsorc (for now). But if I learn the build and become good enough to get the achievement with that character, there's a personal satisfaction that I earned it, not just selected from a dropdown menu.

Your personally been more satisifed doesn't mean it's a participation trophy. That title became avaialble because someone earned it and it's just insulting to compare it to something that is given automatically, devalues that the person earned it. I actually understand why you get more personal satisfaction out of earning it a 2nd time but it don't negate this is earning again, not something unearned period. IMO

What is sad to me is that all of these diverse, sometimes mutually exclusive, concepts sort of co-existed in an uneasy truce until Update 33.

Yup.

Previously you had,
Skins account wide so you could show off those dungeon/trial achievements on any character.
Momentos/Mounts/Etc account wide so you show off those on any character
Style Pages being account wide, so you could learn a motif on 1 character and be able to use it to outfit any other.
Gear that is completely sharable between many of your characters (many "other MMOs" use specific gear for specific classes, so it's not shareable!)

You also had,
Individual titles to show on the character that earned it
Individual achievements to show progress for a specific character.
Motifs/Research/Training on each character (the first two tie intricately into master writ drops)

A decent balance of the two, even shifted to the account-wide stuff before.

Now we're shifting the scales even further so they are definitely tipped in one direction, and being told that any compromise we suggest (such as an in-game overall achievement tracker) because we would still like the ability to track achievements on our individual characters isn't a compromise at all, we get accused of having ulterior motives for doing so.

Elsonso

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I personally was never satisifed by the achievement systems. A lot of people weren't. We just had no choice but to play the way people who prefer character achievement worked.

The character achievement people, at least this one, wasn't either. As I said, it was an uneasy truce.