Account Wide Titles ruin Titles

Mayrael

This kind of threads show that you can't please all the people no matter what. Some want account wide achievements, some doesn't want them at all, some want it to be just partial, others want it to be optional and everyone thinks that he's point is the most important/correct.

Game is evolving, things are going to change.

I appreciate the fact that devs listened to player base who was asking for this for so many years, and it seemed that majority supported this idea so I don't understand current uproar against it.

Tandor

Mayrael wrote: »

This kind of threads show that you can't please all the people no matter what. Some want account wide achievements, some doesn't want them at all, some want it to be just partial, others want it to be optional and everyone thinks that he's point is the most important/correct.

Game is evolving, things are going to change.

I appreciate the fact that devs listened to player base who was asking for this for so many years, and it seemed that majority supported this idea so I don't understand current uproar against it.

You've answered your own point. Some want it for everything, some want it for some things but not other things, some don't want it at all. There's no clear majority for any particular option, so there's no real justification for making such a significant change (other than as an optional one).

adriant1978

Random idea: earn a title on one character, pay gold to unlock it on each alt.

The game needs more gold sinks.

tmbrinks

Mayrael wrote: »

This kind of threads show that you can't please all the people no matter what. Some want account wide achievements, some doesn't want them at all, some want it to be just partial, others want it to be optional and everyone thinks that he's point is the most important/correct.

Game is evolving, things are going to change.

I appreciate the fact that devs listened to player base who was asking for this for so many years, and it seemed that majority supported this idea so I don't understand current uproar against it.

From the number of comments on these threads, it's clearly not the "majority" for it.

It may have appeared to be the majority before because why would the players who really wanted it to stay how it's been for 7 years engage in the threads where people were demanding change to the system (mostly for motif knowledge, which isn't even happening), especially when they were only going to me met with shouts of "white knight" because they had the gall to think something was actually okay. Why would we have though that ZoS was going to change a core gameplay style (the replayability of the game on alt characters) 7 years into the game, so we just ignored those threads thinking (naively now it seems) that they wouldn't fundamentally alter the game this late. Had it been designed from the beginning to be account-wide, it wouldn't matter. But it wasn't, and many people have brought up very good reasons why they shouldn't go though with it, as it will negatively impact many players and how they interact w/ the game.

Account overview. Each character keeps individual achievements. Easy, simple.

I couldn't care less about titles on other characters myself, although I think it's ridiculous that a writ character who's never left a city will have the Godslayer title It doesn't matter, as others have stated, titles aren't used for anything in PVE, there's no "gatekeeping" happening, it won't change a thing. Players know who's actually good and who's carried, it's not a secret. However, I know others do for RP reasons want to keep titles separate.

Remathilis

Tandor wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

This kind of threads show that you can't please all the people no matter what. Some want account wide achievements, some doesn't want them at all, some want it to be just partial, others want it to be optional and everyone thinks that he's point is the most important/correct.

Game is evolving, things are going to change.

I appreciate the fact that devs listened to player base who was asking for this for so many years, and it seemed that majority supported this idea so I don't understand current uproar against it.

You've answered your own point. Some want it for everything, some want it for some things but not other things, some don't want it at all. There's no clear majority for any particular option, so there's no real justification for making such a significant change (other than as an optional one).

You are assuming the opinions expressed on this forum represent the vast majority of ESO players. News flash: they do not. Go on Reddit, go to the chat or YouTube comments of streamers, go to discords or even ask in zone chat; the amount of people happy or who don't care is vastly larger than the handful of hardcore RPers or vet trial groups who care if there templar has Murderer or that you can get hm clears using a dragonknight (which is the only constant that cannot be changed after earning the title).

Trust me, they wouldn't put this kind of effort into recoding how achievements worked if they didn't feel it had a net positive response.

Sandman929

I like Account wide titles, but those who don't have made better arguments based on how ZOS seems to be implementing this.
If it is the Player who earns the achievements, not the character, then why should some things be excluded...like Alliance War ranks, Emperor, Skyshards, etc?
The player achieved those goals, the same as any Trial achievements, and making some Account wide but not others makes no sense.

Varana

A while ago, I continued to do the Alliance quest line with my very first character who hadn't finished it yet.

When in Nimalten in the Rift, you stumble across Aera Earth-Turner - who you met waaay back on Bleakrock Isle. And when greeting you, she thinks that was only a short time earlier.

So in early December 2020, I wanted to check when my character had done the Bleakrock quest line. Very easy - just look at her achievements.

It's a really nice feature that I can check when a specific character got to that point - be it challenging achievements, or just story stuff.

(We spoke 1815 days ago, to be precise.)

TiberX

NO !

Fallenguru

I wanted account wide achievements but not so I can have my pvp or trifecta titles on my alts, I hope they implement a system that still allows progression for alts but also takes away some of the tedious grinds like the monster hunter trophy. I personally think achievements that require do this x amount of times of collect x amount of these should be shared, these sorts of achievements generally happen in the background as your playing the game.

xDeusEJRx

I'll take former emperor on all my toons. No objections from me cause I'm not spending 12 hours again pushing emp ever again

IronWooshu

Mayrael wrote: »

I appreciate the fact that devs listened to player base who was asking for this for so many years, and it seemed that majority supported this idea so I don't understand current uproar against it.

Obviously they didn't or their wouldn't be as much backlash. Also looking at the polls posted over the years it's always been almost split.

For them to just trample over 50% without making compromise is ridiculous. This is on the level if they just said "*** it we are making a global auction house".. tons of people have been asking for that, probably half the population with the other half saying no.

If you think this isn't a big deal, your delusional. The 50% that wanted global achievements were still playing regardless. The 50% that didn't want it, 20% may quit. That's a lot of revenue they could potentially lose for doing something half cocked.

mickeyx

karekiz wrote: »

This new system ruins character development. How can we trust people know what they are doing now?

Nope sorry.

Jazraena

As a roleplayer, I am amazed at the notion of roleplayers of all people being opposed to this.

You can actually use a title appropriate to the role you play without doing some random arbitrary activity for the seventh time on a new character. Whether you have access to titles not fitting your character is completely immaterial. You, as a player, can access your achievement list. Your character can not.

Stop pretending to roleplay when your character is aware of game mechanics.

Elsonso

Jazraena wrote: »

As a roleplayer, I am amazed at the notion of roleplayers of all people being opposed to this.
You can actually use a title appropriate to the role you play without doing some random arbitrary activity for the seventh time on a new character. Whether you have access to titles not fitting your character is completely immaterial. You, as a player, can access your achievement list. Your character can not.

Role playing is not one single thing. Like many things, the term is generic across a number of different play styles, all of them "role playing".

While I agree that game mechanics are what the player applies to the character, and the player need only apply that Title which matters, there are others for whom the larger ecosystem of the character is important. I can understand that. For example, should a Lawful Good character have an achievement appropriate to a Chaotic Neutral thief just because another character the player played was a thief? Different players will answer that differently.

Seminolegirl1992

I'm down for account wide achievements. Little iffy on account wide titles. I've been longing for account wide achievements for ages now. Many times I'm on an alt and I can't remember whether I have a certain achievement or not. Rather than cycle through 18 toons to find out which one has it, this could solve that problem. I do hope that it mentions which toon and the date they got it on originally, but I have doubts that that's going to be implemented. @ZOS_Kevin if you could forward that question pretty please The issue with account wide titles is it cheapens earning them on multiple toons. May I ask for clarification as to which are character specific? Thanks so much Kevin, your transparency and kindness is astounding and you deserve a raise.

adriant1978

Jazraena wrote: »

As a roleplayer, I am amazed at the notion of roleplayers of all people being opposed to this.

You can actually use a title appropriate to the role you play without doing some random arbitrary activity for the seventh time on a new character. Whether you have access to titles not fitting your character is completely immaterial. You, as a player, can access your achievement list. Your character can not.

Stop pretending to roleplay when your character is aware of game mechanics.

Glad someone else brought this up.

To me achievements are an out-of-universe gameplay thing that belong to me the player.

My character, in-universe, knows that he defeated Molag Bal and saved Tamriel without "Achievement Unlocked: God of Schemes" popping up.

Jazraena

Elsonso wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

As a roleplayer, I am amazed at the notion of roleplayers of all people being opposed to this.
You can actually use a title appropriate to the role you play without doing some random arbitrary activity for the seventh time on a new character. Whether you have access to titles not fitting your character is completely immaterial. You, as a player, can access your achievement list. Your character can not.

Role playing is not one single thing. Like many things, the term is generic across a number of different play styles, all of them "role playing".

While I agree that game mechanics are what the player applies to the character, and the player need only apply that Title which matters, there are others for whom the larger ecosystem of the character is important. I can understand that. For example, should a Lawful Good character have an achievement appropriate to a Chaotic Neutral thief just because another character the player played was a thief? Different players will answer that differently.

Your character does not have achievements, much like you, in real life, don't get an achievement popup when turning 20. There is absolutely no, none, zero interpretation of 'roleplaying' in which this fundamental changes and you could still call it roleplaying with a straight face without being a 4th Wall Aware Tamriel Deadpool.

Dislike global achievements if you must, but don't use roleplaying as an excuse to do so. The general reaction in roleplaying communities has been absolutely ecstatic for good reason.

AScarlato

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

I am someone who rps but I don't really take issue with having the murderer achievements unlocked on a righteous character because achievements just don't really mean much to my rp. I can see how people who like having an ingame character-specific tracker of stuff wouldn't like this change, but for me it doesn't matter. The ingame achievement list has nothing to do with my rp, it's something I do whether achievements exist or not.

Completely agree as a Roleplayer. Roleplayers will pick and choose titles based on our character backstories and not what they do in game. In fact, most of us RP's don't RP that we have done most of the things we've done in game, because it ruins RP if everyone in the RP has completed the main story quests and are all the heroes who are personal confidants of Queen Ayrenn or whatever.

In game level means nothing in RP. We have RP characters who are forever level 5. RP is more about acting and writing than it is about CP and levels and what dungeons someone has done.

I'm not understanding the "oh no the RPers" arguments here for a title appearing in a drop down list, that you DO NOT HAVE TO USE or acknowledge. I have tons of titles now that don't fit my characters but the game decided to give me for doing some activity. I just don't equip them.

Vevvev

When I see people in PvP with Flawless Conqueror, Grand Overlord, or any other number of personally achieved high ranking titles I know what to expect from that character. Now a level 3 could be sporting all of these titles, but so weak they couldn't harm a fly. I don't like this change one bit.

kind_hero

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

If you have any questions or concerns about account wide achievements, please let us know. We can circle back with the dev team for feedback and get back to you.

My 1st concern is this: I have started with my main in the beta. After the beta was wiped out, I created the same char, same sliders, and I am fond of certain achievements because of the dates (even the noob ones, like how long it took to get to a certain point). I also have an alt, which started an other journey, sometime later and did different things. Sometimes I like comparing these achievements, and see them as a journal.
What will happen with the chronology of achievements? How will the achievements merge? If we lose the date of the achievements, then it is bad, I don't like that.

The 2nd concern is about titles such as veteran dungeons or certain things which give a degree of accomplishment when you get it, regardless that you get it a 2nd or 3rd time. Like someone else said, getting it in different circumstances, on an other char is the achievement, and it never gets old. Will we have vet titles or pvp titles on newbie chars? I wouldn't like to see end game titles on starting characters or mules. Please don't allow jokes like this!

What I like about account wide titles is the possibility of getting the grind achievements account wide, such as kill 1000 players for the red dye, harvest x resources, open 1k chests, monster hunter grind, this kind of things.
All the rest should be character bound and link-able from the UI, in a way that you can link your main char's achievements, but cannot use a grand overlord title on a level 3 char.

Also, since we are here, the recipe book should be account wide. I don't see the point of learning multiple furnishing blueprints or food recipes on alts. Same with motif knowledge, which might become controversial if you do that, but it is illogical to learn the same thing on different chars. These would be QoL improvements.

In my opinion the whole system should be optional... BUT I support the idea, I just hope you will do it right, not mess up our history of playtime. Some of us are playing the same char since launch!

newtinmpls

Weper wrote: »

I don't get it why are some people mad about this. Haven't they played other MMOs?

I'm not asking you to agree..I'm asking you to respect a different point of view.

This is NOT just an MMO it is an MMORPG.

For some players, this means that each character is a separate individual, regardless of the fact that they have the same oversoul (player).

I would contrast it with say, checkers where the idea of the importance or personality of skill of any given piece is a non-issue.

Jazraena

I'm not all that good at PvP, don't have any rank above Major, and have casually flattened too many Grand Overlords, Flawless Conquerors and many other titles to assign any expected competence to it.

Conversely, Sergeant Unassuming might rip you to shreds out of nowhere.

newtinmpls wrote: »

Weper wrote: »

I don't get it why are some people mad about this. Haven't they played other MMOs?

I'm not asking you to agree..I'm asking you to respect a different point of view.

This is NOT just an MMO it is an MMORPG.

For some players, this means that each character is a separate individual, regardless of the fact that they have the same oversoul (player).

I would contrast it with say, checkers where the idea of the importance or personality of skill of any given piece is a non-issue.

Once more, if you treat the character as it's own individual... then said individual can't read the achievement list. You as a player can. Your character cannot.

Kwoung

Vevvev wrote: »

When I see people in PvP with Flawless Conqueror, Grand Overlord, or any other number of personally achieved high ranking titles I know what to expect from that character. Now a level 3 could be sporting all of these titles, but so weak they couldn't harm a fly. I don't like this change one bit.

IDK, I have gone out on low level alts and literally destroyed folks because of the way scaling works. Anyways, what does it matter, if someone is dumb enough to toss their grand overlord title on a level 3, its on them for wearing a huge target. But just because that character is low level, you are still fighting someone who is probably fairly skilled and will kick most peoples backside.

Xebov

tmbrinks wrote: »

From the number of comments on these threads, it's clearly not the "majority" for it.

Previously you had suggestion threads where ppl that wanted the change put their weight in to get it. Now that its happening you have the reverse, you now have ppl here that like the current way that want to prevent it. For ppl that wante dthe change there is little reason to diskuss here because they get what they wanted.

SerafinaWaterstar

Jazraena wrote: »

I'm not all that good at PvP, don't have any rank above Major, and have casually flattened too many Grand Overlords, Flawless Conquerors and many other titles to assign any expected competence to it.

Conversely, Sergeant Unassuming might rip you to shreds out of nowhere.

newtinmpls wrote: »

Weper wrote: »

I don't get it why are some people mad about this. Haven't they played other MMOs?

I'm not asking you to agree..I'm asking you to respect a different point of view.

This is NOT just an MMO it is an MMORPG.

For some players, this means that each character is a separate individual, regardless of the fact that they have the same oversoul (player).

I would contrast it with say, checkers where the idea of the importance or personality of skill of any given piece is a non-issue.

Once more, if you treat the character as it's own individual... then said individual can't read the achievement list. You as a player can. Your character cannot.

I like getting achievement on my individual characters. Yes, I do treat them as separate individual characters - what is so wrong in that? You are basically telling me my way of playing is invalid, which is rather unkind.

I have repeatedly suggested that this should be optional or there should be an account overview - I am not suggesting that the way you want it to be is incorrect. Please show the same courtesy I am showing you.

Elsonso

Jazraena wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

As a roleplayer, I am amazed at the notion of roleplayers of all people being opposed to this.
You can actually use a title appropriate to the role you play without doing some random arbitrary activity for the seventh time on a new character. Whether you have access to titles not fitting your character is completely immaterial. You, as a player, can access your achievement list. Your character can not.

Role playing is not one single thing. Like many things, the term is generic across a number of different play styles, all of them "role playing".

While I agree that game mechanics are what the player applies to the character, and the player need only apply that Title which matters, there are others for whom the larger ecosystem of the character is important. I can understand that. For example, should a Lawful Good character have an achievement appropriate to a Chaotic Neutral thief just because another character the player played was a thief? Different players will answer that differently.

Your character does not have achievements, much like you, in real life, don't get an achievement popup when turning 20. There is absolutely no, none, zero interpretation of 'roleplaying' in which this fundamental changes and you could still call it roleplaying with a straight face without being a 4th Wall Aware Tamriel Deadpool.

Like I said... different players, different role players, will answer that question differently. I wasn't actually expecting an answer.

Call_of_Red_Mountain

Mayrael wrote: »

This kind of threads show that you can't please all the people no matter what. Some want account wide achievements, some doesn't want them at all, some want it to be just partial, others want it to be optional and everyone thinks that he's point is the most important/correct.

Game is evolving, things are going to change.

I appreciate the fact that devs listened to player base who was asking for this for so many years, and it seemed that majority supported this idea so I don't understand current uproar against it.

🤝

gorky1

Mayrael wrote: »

This kind of threads show that you can't please all the people no matter what. Some want account wide achievements, some doesn't want them at all, some want it to be just partial, others want it to be optional and everyone thinks that he's point is the most important/correct.

Game is evolving, things are going to change.

I appreciate the fact that devs listened to player base who was asking for this for so many years, and it seemed that majority supported this idea so I don't understand current uproar against it.

Agreed!

I think the silent majority are OK with this change.
Do what you want in the game. Don't forget to have fun!

Jazraena

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

I'm not all that good at PvP, don't have any rank above Major, and have casually flattened too many Grand Overlords, Flawless Conquerors and many other titles to assign any expected competence to it.

Conversely, Sergeant Unassuming might rip you to shreds out of nowhere.

newtinmpls wrote: »

Weper wrote: »

I don't get it why are some people mad about this. Haven't they played other MMOs?

I'm not asking you to agree..I'm asking you to respect a different point of view.

This is NOT just an MMO it is an MMORPG.

For some players, this means that each character is a separate individual, regardless of the fact that they have the same oversoul (player).

I would contrast it with say, checkers where the idea of the importance or personality of skill of any given piece is a non-issue.

Once more, if you treat the character as it's own individual... then said individual can't read the achievement list. You as a player can. Your character cannot.

I like getting achievement on my individual characters. Yes, I do treat them as separate individual characters - what is so wrong in that? You are basically telling me my way of playing is invalid, which is rather unkind.

I have repeatedly suggested that this should be optional or there should be an account overview - I am not suggesting that the way you want it to be is incorrect. Please show the same courtesy I am showing you.

It's not about what I or anyone else wants.

It's about people pretending this somehow interferes with their roleplaying. It does not. If it does, you're breaking the 4th Wall - and that's no longer roleplaying then.

You not liking the change is fair game. I don't understand why, but it's absolutely fair game. But if you're reasoning is roleplaying then something's off, because the moment the mere presence of an achievement becomes a problem is the moment you're breaking the role.

Jazraena

Elsonso wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

As a roleplayer, I am amazed at the notion of roleplayers of all people being opposed to this.
You can actually use a title appropriate to the role you play without doing some random arbitrary activity for the seventh time on a new character. Whether you have access to titles not fitting your character is completely immaterial. You, as a player, can access your achievement list. Your character can not.

Role playing is not one single thing. Like many things, the term is generic across a number of different play styles, all of them "role playing".

While I agree that game mechanics are what the player applies to the character, and the player need only apply that Title which matters, there are others for whom the larger ecosystem of the character is important. I can understand that. For example, should a Lawful Good character have an achievement appropriate to a Chaotic Neutral thief just because another character the player played was a thief? Different players will answer that differently.

Your character does not have achievements, much like you, in real life, don't get an achievement popup when turning 20. There is absolutely no, none, zero interpretation of 'roleplaying' in which this fundamental changes and you could still call it roleplaying with a straight face without being a 4th Wall Aware Tamriel Deadpool.

Like I said... different players, different role players, will answer that question differently. I wasn't actually expecting an answer.

There are differences in opinion, and then there's people just misusing the term 'roleplay' for something it's not. It's a very binary question: Is your character aware of game mechanics, or are they not?