Account Wide Titles ruin Titles

Gaebriel0410

This is also a very good change for players who are into achievements, play mostly on a single character, but feel hesitant or unable to change character because they have all their achievements on their main and making another character would essentially make them 'start over'. I know a bunch of players like that, who all rejoiced at the (relative) freedom it gives.

HappyDan

Like skinny suggested give us something for repeating achievements, like colored titles, icons or even mount/pets

tim77

Combined points are great, people looking for this for a long time.

But i dont like the same thing for titles. It was always fun to get a nice title even for the storage mules. Mostly it was pirate, witch or assasine lol, but for one char i made a second master angler. Not for others, just for myself. Think titles should stick to the char who did it. Like others said, they are anyway not for bragging... just a fun for yourself. Not any more....

Parasaurolophus

If you think a particular character is unworthy of a certain title, don't use it.

SerafinaWaterstar

Its not about whether it is ‘worthy’ of a title or not - it is that the character has NOT done the thing that gives the achievement, whether it be Monster Hunter, Felonious Recompense or Godslayer.

Some of us like to play many characters as separate individuals, and so do not want all the achievements lumped together. It takes away our fun.

CBixby

If this had been introduced when I started in 2015 I would have been hyped. Now it’s been so long that it’s infuriating to think about. I have one dedicated toon for achievements, titles, and motifs and I use my alts as an incentive/goal that helps me keep playing so I can earn them there too.

If it goes through I’m positive I will lose interest and probably stop playing.

DarcyMardin

Wow, almost 300 comments on a subject I didn’t know anybody even cared about

kargen27

TiaFrye wrote: »

Some titles I will never be able to get on some of my characters (lack of time or motivation, or the right team) but having an immersive title on say cosplay toon that fits to the character they're portraying is a dream come true... I'm still the one who got it once upon a time, so what's the difference.

You and your character got it. You couldn't have done it without your character. It was a team effort between you and that one character.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

tmbrinks wrote: »

guarstompemoji wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

An account overview for Achievements would allow all of those who want to see their total account progress to see it. While still allowing players who want that feeling of completion and accomplishment on individual characters to have that.

This change will likely take away from all those players who want to do things individually, while there exists an option to do this without taking away. (This is if it's as worded as was said on the stream... I hope to (insert your favorite deity here) they're just introducing an account overview and their wording was inaccurate)

The amount of accusations and disparaging comments directed towards those that want to keep the individuality of their characters is astounding to me, and frankly disheartening of the community as a whole.

Brinks, I got hate mail for adding slightly different color to text within a game, once.

The human brain can wire against change.

As a support player, I am loving this. The raid lead wants my warden healer instead of my templar? Great! My necro? Awesome! I don't need to worry about stacking the clears on one character.

For roleplay, this is awesome! I want to earn the Lord or Lady title, then use that on a new character to play an estranged young and bumbling noble? Awesome!

But your good/noble character now has the assassin title.

Your thief character now has the Benefactor title.

It cuts both ways.

Give account-wide overview. You can see that yeah you got GS and GH on your warden, but got TTT and DB on your tempar, but you can show you've gotten all 4 on your account.

Yeah they would get those title but it doent matter like, at all. Just need to not equip them and its solved

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

After this change you simply will not judge people off their title. Not hard to quickly figure out who is legit and who is fake.

M0ntie

Combine achievement points yes.
But keep titles specific to the character that earned them, or make it distinguishable that it was the character that the title was earned on.
Giving away the title to all characters is a kick in the guts for what can be months of work (ie trials trifectas) to earn the hard titles on multiple characters. It also removes the incentive for people with a title to prog it again on another character, and help those without the title in the process.

Amottica

gronoxvx wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I fail to see how this ruins titles. If they actually earned it then they do know what they are doing.

How do you know they have not paid for a clear as things stand now? That means account-wide titles are not that big of an issue.

You can tell within the first few mins of starting an instance that someone paid for their title. Either through them not following mechanics specific to the content or even testing their knowledge of mechanics before the instance begins.

Exactly my point.

Kwoung

Are people really arguing that a character earned titles? Do their characters run around when they are asleep or something and they wake up to new titles? Seriously? The player earns titles, the character is nothing without the player... just log your character in, don't touch your keyboard and look at how much that character can accomplish.

How can we tell if someone is qualified if we don't know that character earned the title... come on really? Clue in, your toon doesn't earn anything, it's a toon that does absolutely nothing without someone controlling it!

brylars

Titles are nothing. They just say that one has completed an achievement. They do not give buffs or any other benefit other than bragging rights which most do not brag about.

spartaxoxo

Kwoung wrote: »

Are people really arguing that a character earned titles? Do their characters run around when they are asleep or something and they wake up to new titles? Seriously? The player earns titles, the character is nothing without the player... just log your character in, don't touch your keyboard and look at how much that character can accomplish.

How can we tell if someone is qualified if we don't know that character earned the title... come on really? Clue in, your toon doesn't earn anything, it's a toon that does absolutely nothing without someone controlling it!

While I don't view the concept this extremely, I definitely agree that it's the player that earned the title. You don't suddenly lose knowledge of the mechanics of a particular dungeon or trial just because you're on a different character. Sure there are some role specific nuances you might need to adjust to if you earned something on say your tank and now you're doing DPS, but overall you're going to have a lot easier time getting up to par than someone who doesn't have that title at all.

I think titles being unable to be used to gatekeep people from content they know how to do unless they play the character you want them to play is a good thing, personally. I see it as upside to account wide achievements.

blktauna

I think there's a lot of overreaction here. Nowhere has there been a list of what particular things will become account wide. My guess is it will be simple things like combining the holiday achievement progress, the area exploration progress, skyshard completion etc.

I'm highly doubtful trifectas, HM completions, anything involving gaining skill points, or rank in cyro etc will be included. I'm guessing that will include anything that awards colours too.

I don't care either way as I barely know where the achievement list is, and I don't care about titles except for occasional entertainment value. However I doubt players will get something for nothing so it makes more sense for it to be the small QOL achievements that will be global vs the godslayer issue some folks are worried about.

matterandstuff

blktauna wrote: »

I think there's a lot of overreaction here. Nowhere has there been a list of what particular things will become account wide. My guess is it will be simple things like combining the holiday achievement progress, the area exploration progress, skyshard completion etc.

I'm highly doubtful trifectas, HM completions, anything involving gaining skill points, or rank in cyro etc will be included. I'm guessing that will include anything that awards colours too.

I don't care either way as I barely know where the achievement list is, and I don't care about titles except for occasional entertainment value. However I doubt players will get something for nothing so it makes more sense for it to be the small QOL achievements that will be global vs the godslayer issue some folks are worried about.

They specifically said what things would be exempt in the livestream (and that everything else would be included) and everything in your "highly doubtful" list wasn't on the exempt list.

matterandstuff

I think this is a huge mistake - as another person who likes to get achievements on each character, it's destroying the main motivation to continue playing in endgame for a decent chunk of the playerbase.

If my character hasn't done the content, I don't want them to have the achievements as if they had, because then it seems as if there's no point doing the content. Getting DLC dungeon hardmodes in my healer is not the same as getting them as a DPS or a tank, and I want to be able to get those achievements on my DPSs and tank when I actually get them - not because my healer got them first.

It's a change that's destined to make people with my playstyle quit the game.

blktauna

matterandstuff wrote: »

[quote="blktauna;c-7506024"<snip> However I doubt players will get something for nothing so it makes more sense for it to be the small QOL achievements that will be global vs the godslayer issue some folks are worried about.

They specifically said what things would be exempt in the livestream (and that everything else would be included) and everything in your "highly doubtful" list wasn't on the exempt list.[/quote]

This seems extremely odd. I rewatched and checked out a few other things to see. I really feel this was glossed in the way they spoke about it and will reserve judgement until specifics come in.

SerafinaWaterstar

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Are people really arguing that a character earned titles? Do their characters run around when they are asleep or something and they wake up to new titles? Seriously? The player earns titles, the character is nothing without the player... just log your character in, don't touch your keyboard and look at how much that character can accomplish.

How can we tell if someone is qualified if we don't know that character earned the title... come on really? Clue in, your toon doesn't earn anything, it's a toon that does absolutely nothing without someone controlling it!

While I don't view the concept this extremely, I definitely agree that it's the player that earned the title. You don't suddenly lose knowledge of the mechanics of a particular dungeon or trial just because you're on a different character. Sure there are some role specific nuances you might need to adjust to if you earned something on say your tank and now you're doing DPS, but overall you're going to have a lot easier time getting up to par than someone who doesn't have that title at all.

I think titles being unable to be used to gatekeep people from content they know how to do unless they play the character you want them to play is a good thing, personally. I see it as upside to account wide achievements.

This is not just about titles & gatekeeping. That’s not my concern. Don’t think titles should be used in that way anyway & dislike gatekeeping.

My point is that my different characters are separate beings. I like how at the moment I can earn achievements on these characters individually. Not for the sake of ‘gatekeeping’ but knowing that I have understood how to play those different characters well. Can do vet trials on stamblade or sorc or healer, but not sure about being adept enough with my dks or necros. Haven’t mastered them yet.

But your point about mechs - I mainly dd, have a basic healer that can get you through most dungeons, but have not the slightest clue as to how to tank. You make it sound like swapping from dd to tank or healer is simple - it is not and requires a different understanding of the mechs & what to do. So it is me AND my different characters that can do certain things.

But slightly off the point, which is I would prefer the achievements to stay character based, or at least have the option, as for me, it is the character that gets the achievement, not just ‘the player’.

FeedbackOnly

Kwoung wrote: »

Are people really arguing that a character earned titles? Do their characters run around when they are asleep or something and they wake up to new titles? Seriously? The player earns titles, the character is nothing without the player... just log your character in, don't touch your keyboard and look at how much that character can accomplish.

How can we tell if someone is qualified if we don't know that character earned the title... come on really? Clue in, your toon doesn't earn anything, it's a toon that does absolutely nothing without someone controlling it!

Yeah but some characters are better then others. Then there's non meta characters who absolutely will suffer when they earn their achievements. People will claim it's impossible on xx and xx with xxxx

Put character names under some achievements and easily solve all issues

Wolfkeks

Mmh I personally like that they want to make achievements account wide but I can see that this could be an issue for others.

Maybe they could simply make two tabs, one for character achievements and one for the account achievements, then it should be easier to keep track of what achievements a character has or needs.

perfiction

I think account-wide achievements as presented on stream are an overkill.

I'm all in for account overview tab somewhere in achievements UI, it's great QOL thing - but we should be able to see which characters completed specific achievements (for example by showing a list of characters under achievement tooltip).

When it comes to ability to use titles on alt toons - I don't mind that if ZOS changes something about how titles are displayed in the nameplate. One suggestion would be normal (blue) title color if it was gained on different character and yellow/orange/any other color (or extra icon next to the title) if the achievement was gained on this specific character. Same thing with linking an achievement - being able to link an achievement without the need to relog is great, but it should show checklist of characters that unlocked this achievement.

I think it would be great middle ground.

side note: what about achievements that have some progress, for example "kill 500 players in battlegrounds"? The progress from all characters will be added together or what? I think this change will result in a big mess when it comes to achievements with progress or metaachievements (the ones that require X other achievements to be completed first).

karthrag_inak

Khajiit has nearly 40k points on one character, but mainly loves to play through content on all 18 of his characters. This one uses current lack of achievements on a character to measure what that character has yet to accomplish. Please do not just collapse all achievements into a single record. That would encourage this one to find something else to play, since it would be too much of a hassle figuring out which character still needs what quest/achievement task to advance.

Elsonso

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

After this change you simply will not judge people off their title. Not hard to quickly figure out who is legit and who is fake.

It is already this way, which is why it is interesting that titles are the part of the change that a lot of negative emotion is focused on.

Today, there is nothing to say that the Godslayer _character_ that just ran past you is the same build that earned the achievement, or even a better build. The player is the same, presumably, but even with that, the title does not mean the player could do it again. (Honestly, they probably can't...)

Bottom line is that account wide achievements allowing cross-character title use just means it will happen more often.

blktauna wrote: »

This seems extremely odd. I rewatched and checked out a few other things to see. I really feel this was glossed in the way they spoke about it and will reserve judgement until specifics come in.

Well, the way they announced this was really strange. It was almost like a footnote in the stream. I don't know if they thought it was big news and were being a little silly in how they presented it, or thought it was big news that would cause unrest and wanted to minimize things. (Edit: I guess it felt like they didn't have anything prepared to say about it...)

Coatmagic

Titles are (and imo) have no reason not to be in the hands of those that earned them.

Everyone has already stated about paid runs, but there are the non-paid, call it... accidental carries.... happening on guild runs to see who can play with the big boys.

Many running around with such 'accidental titles' including alts from spur of the moment accomplishments you hadn't gotten on your main yet. As for this build or that build couldn't do that, well we can't inspect one another so that's really neither here nor there, is it?

People know what they can and can't do, and title hunters know (or should) where the titles came from and can sort their characters out themselves, and those that have lots of alts and don't feel like banging out 18 Witch titles, cut em some slack already!

For my part, I won't be running any hard-got titles on any alts, but them Witch titles wheeee!

PS: Something I would love as an altoholic, LET US TOGGLE OUR CHAMPION POINT VISABILITY. Why? Because XP flows too fast, and before heads even round a new character it's too late. Barely know what's going on yet and trying to learn group content on a new character with XXXX cp showing is a bloody nightmare 8*(

priestnall.andrewrwb17_ESO

Depends on the title - some are linked to GRINDY ones that aren’t particularly skill based but more a commit to doing the same thing over and over again; like fishing. Basically they need to sit down and think about what is a “personal achievement” and ones that can be shared by multiple characters on the same account. If they can make that distinction - and I think that’s what they were getting at during the livestream then yeah all for it.

Myrnhiel

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

I did delicately keep my main character away from Dark brotherhood,she never even entered the sanctuary but she should then get all achievements unlocked for it what my thief assassin Khajiit did?
Honestly I can see some people wanting this but I don't.
So if it would be optional everyone would benefit.

Yes, I did the same thing with my main character. She might be a thief sometimes (depends on the situation), but she definitely is not a murderer.
So having a title or achievement related to the Dark Brotherhood on this character just feels completely wrong.

So, if this goes live without having the possibility to toggle this off, I think I will delete my murderous cat before in order to avoid the transfer of any DB titles to my main character. I would do this with a very heavy heart, because I really like her, but my main Bosmer will always come first.

So yes, please make this optional.

tmbrinks

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Are people really arguing that a character earned titles? Do their characters run around when they are asleep or something and they wake up to new titles? Seriously? The player earns titles, the character is nothing without the player... just log your character in, don't touch your keyboard and look at how much that character can accomplish.

How can we tell if someone is qualified if we don't know that character earned the title... come on really? Clue in, your toon doesn't earn anything, it's a toon that does absolutely nothing without someone controlling it!

While I don't view the concept this extremely, I definitely agree that it's the player that earned the title. You don't suddenly lose knowledge of the mechanics of a particular dungeon or trial just because you're on a different character. Sure there are some role specific nuances you might need to adjust to if you earned something on say your tank and now you're doing DPS, but overall you're going to have a lot easier time getting up to par than someone who doesn't have that title at all.

I think titles being unable to be used to gatekeep people from content they know how to do unless they play the character you want them to play is a good thing, personally. I see it as upside to account wide achievements.

This is not just about titles & gatekeeping. That’s not my concern. Don’t think titles should be used in that way anyway & dislike gatekeeping.

My point is that my different characters are separate beings. I like how at the moment I can earn achievements on these characters individually. Not for the sake of ‘gatekeeping’ but knowing that I have understood how to play those different characters well. Can do vet trials on stamblade or sorc or healer, but not sure about being adept enough with my dks or necros. Haven’t mastered them yet.

But your point about mechs - I mainly dd, have a basic healer that can get you through most dungeons, but have not the slightest clue as to how to tank. You make it sound like swapping from dd to tank or healer is simple - it is not and requires a different understanding of the mechs & what to do. So it is me AND my different characters that can do certain things.

But slightly off the point, which is I would prefer the achievements to stay character based, or at least have the option, as for me, it is the character that gets the achievement, not just ‘the player’.

Exactly, it has nothing to do with "gatekeeping", it's simply that many of us prefer to earn things on different characters, and we're losing that with this change. I'm actually offended that is the reason they're settling on, as it only seeks to dismiss my view by making it seem like I have ulterior motives.

Jack-0

I hope titles *are* shared across characters. I don’t know why people try and use achievements or titles to judge whether someone can join their trial group, there are other ways to determine if someone’s suitable - recommendations from players you trust, logs, or how about just taking someone at their word or taking them along and if they can’t cut it, drop them later? No big deal…

For those concerned over their imaginary back stories for their characters, if you can imagine enough of a back story for your role play, can’t you also imagine that your lawful good character doesn’t have these titles by..not toggling them on?