My thoughts on the recent outrage about ESO's monetization practices

redspecter23

SilverBride wrote: »

Wow wrote: »

You do need the banker. Everytime I see guildie/discord friends asking for what item should they get from crown store, I always answer

"Banker", "Banker", "Banker"

You'll need it

I don't have the banker and never will because I see no use for it. When I need to bank I just go to any town with a bank and use theirs.

When I see players with their banker out in town all I can think is they actually spent money for this to avoid walking a few more steps. I just don't get it.

It's personal preference and most would consider it a time saver. In town, it's a few steps. If you're in a dungeon, it's those same few steps plus two load screens and some more steps coming back multiplied by 4 because everyone in your group may be waiting for you. The banker saves significant time in those moments.

Is it necessary? No. Does it save time? Definitely. How much that time save is worth to any given person is subjective.

SilverBride

redspecter23 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Wow wrote: »

You do need the banker. Everytime I see guildie/discord friends asking for what item should they get from crown store, I always answer

"Banker", "Banker", "Banker"

You'll need it

I don't have the banker and never will because I see no use for it. When I need to bank I just go to any town with a bank and use theirs.

When I see players with their banker out in town all I can think is they actually spent money for this to avoid walking a few more steps. I just don't get it.

It's personal preference and most would consider it a time saver. In town, it's a few steps. If you're in a dungeon, it's those same few steps plus two load screens and some more steps coming back multiplied by 4 because everyone in your group may be waiting for you. The banker saves significant time in those moments.

Is it necessary? No. Does it save time? Definitely. How much that time save is worth to any given person is subjective.

I've never found a need to bank when in the middle of a dungeon, but regardless the point I was making is that no we don't need a banker.

Vulkunne

SilverBride wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Wow wrote: »

You do need the banker. Everytime I see guildie/discord friends asking for what item should they get from crown store, I always answer

"Banker", "Banker", "Banker"

You'll need it

I don't have the banker and never will because I see no use for it. When I need to bank I just go to any town with a bank and use theirs.

When I see players with their banker out in town all I can think is they actually spent money for this to avoid walking a few more steps. I just don't get it.

It's personal preference and most would consider it a time saver. In town, it's a few steps. If you're in a dungeon, it's those same few steps plus two load screens and some more steps coming back multiplied by 4 because everyone in your group may be waiting for you. The banker saves significant time in those moments.

Is it necessary? No. Does it save time? Definitely. How much that time save is worth to any given person is subjective.

I've never found a need to bank when in the middle of a dungeon, but regardless the point I was making is that no we don't need a banker.

While its true the vendor is probably utilized the most, I find a banker to be very helpful.

I am one of those people with many different characters, I keep all rations, repair crates, pots, all kinds of resources that each character needs, centralized in my bank.

So if we're out on a run or locked down in a trial for awhile, its a heck of alot easier to just whip out the banker and restock everything either the group or myself requires, per each character's specific needs.

I imagine that without having the banker option it would be absolute chaos for members of the group, or for myself, fast traveling back and forth to town as well as a logistical nightmare trying to de-centralize supplies between characters and having those characters need to restock themselves separately, rather than just going directly to the bank as the supplier centrally, which is just so much more easier and organized.

redspecter23

SilverBride wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Wow wrote: »

You do need the banker. Everytime I see guildie/discord friends asking for what item should they get from crown store, I always answer

"Banker", "Banker", "Banker"

You'll need it

I don't have the banker and never will because I see no use for it. When I need to bank I just go to any town with a bank and use theirs.

When I see players with their banker out in town all I can think is they actually spent money for this to avoid walking a few more steps. I just don't get it.

It's personal preference and most would consider it a time saver. In town, it's a few steps. If you're in a dungeon, it's those same few steps plus two load screens and some more steps coming back multiplied by 4 because everyone in your group may be waiting for you. The banker saves significant time in those moments.

Is it necessary? No. Does it save time? Definitely. How much that time save is worth to any given person is subjective.

I've never found a need to bank when in the middle of a dungeon, but regardless the point I was making is that no we don't need a banker.

Well of course you don't need the banker. Many players want the banker. Want is different than need. You said you didn't see the reason for it. I was trying to help show reasons that some players would want the banker even if it's something you aren't interested in.

Saying "no we don't need a banker" while absolutely true, misses the point. This is a game. Nothing in it is needed. The game itself isn't needed. Assuming the goal is to sustain life, it's highly unlikely for a game or any element in it to provide food, shelter or protection from the elements.

With that hyperbole aside, it comes down to what individuals desire or want. By saying "we don't need a banker" you're implying that you speak for everyone and that's not the case. People have varying wants and desires even if it's something you don't want.

Lady_Galadhiel

SilverBride wrote: »

Wow wrote: »

You do need the banker. Everytime I see guildie/discord friends asking for what item should they get from crown store, I always answer

"Banker", "Banker", "Banker"

You'll need it

I don't have the banker and never will because I see no use for it. When I need to bank I just go to any town with a bank and use theirs.

When I see players with their banker out in town all I can think is they actually spent money for this to avoid walking a few more steps. I just don't get it.

It does save time,depending where you do writs,how many characters you have and how far the bank is away.
For me the banker saves a lot of time when doing writs on 9 characters.

SSX_Gryphon

My 2 cents.

Low ball items like your crown supply crates. The main argument I see is based on the person making that statement on the assumption that a new player will just buy them. I didn't. Nobody I know ever did either.

Sawman made an excellent observation on them however. On first play you get X amount of crowns on the basis that those will introduce you to the store in order to get you to use it more. He hits the nail on the head It's a deliberate move - but it's neither positive nor negative.

Same goes for those low ball items. Yes, they're deliberate. They're impulse buys. The same mechanic is used in every retail outlet on the planet - hey guy! here's some completely useless stuff that you can fling chump change at. It's been at every shop on the planet and unless you're giving hell to the store owners, then I'm sorry but, you don't really care about the crown store either. You're jumping on hissy fit bandwagon because content creators don't have a new build to show you this week and need to get that cheddar. (again, seperate to my previous re:Sawman, like my opinion would matter to him, but he makes good observations)

Do these items serve a purpose? No. Would the store be better off without them? Yes. Will they be removed? No. They're a low hanging fruit, that's no more sketch than any other store you shop out.

Case in point, if I buy a game and I'm new, I'm not dropping dollar on anything until I know I need it. I'm an adult and have better things to spend money on. If I want something, then yeah I'll get it.

The free crowns you get are just that. Free. If someones uses those free crowns to buy a useless item, then nobody dies and the universe doesn't implode.

ZoS are a vendor. It's thier job to make money. The problem with a lot of these opinions is that you're expecting a business to function to the contrary of every other business out there. I have no idea how you developed this expectation living in the world that you do.

What people want to spend money on is subjective. It's thier call. By all means, educate them, but unless you're going to post a pic of you giving your local shopkeep crap about the way they pump you for money as well, I don't really see what your point is.

There is nothing in that store that is essential. On that basis, they could jump the price 10 times over and be no worse than a Jaguar dealership, Gucci or Belstaff.

The online gaming community = Drama.

Now - I'm autistic, if anyones due a hissy fit over something not functioning in line with thier individual values, it's me. I'm embarrassed for some of you.

BlossomDead

Veita wrote: »

Absolutely true and I wish people would also take other games and compare them to ESO. You won't find a single MMORPG where the monetization is that player friendly as it is in ESO.

In my opinion, people are just greedy and want everything for free and if possible in the highest quality.

People stated they want the opportunity to buy things directly. I fail to see how that is wanting for free.

Charon_on_Vacation

SilverBride wrote: »

Wow wrote: »

You do need the banker. Everytime I see guildie/discord friends asking for what item should they get from crown store, I always answer

"Banker", "Banker", "Banker"

You'll need it

I don't have the banker and never will because I see no use for it. When I need to bank I just go to any town with a bank and use theirs.

When I see players with their banker out in town all I can think is they actually spent money for this to avoid walking a few more steps. I just don't get it.

you have to look at it from a different perspective.
it does save time.
when you are old, and lying on your deathbed, theres a good chance you'd pay the price for a banker, just to have 3 more days with your family.
that is what people pay for.
their time.

pklemming

Your example, is me wanting to buy stuff from the crown store on my deathbed, so I don't need to farm in game, and have more time with my family...

What is wrong with this statement?

SilverBride

redspecter23 wrote: »

By saying "we don't need a banker" you're implying that you speak for everyone and that's not the case. People have varying wants and desires even if it's something you don't want.

All I did was reply to this, and state my opinion that no we don't need a banker.

Wow wrote: »

You do need the banker. Everytime I see guildie/discord friends asking for what item should they get from crown store, I always answer

"Banker", "Banker", "Banker"

You'll need it

Kiralyn2000

Vulkunne wrote: »

I imagine that without having the banker option it would be absolute chaos for members of the group, or for myself, fast traveling back and forth to town as well as a logistical nightmare trying to de-centralize supplies between characters and having those characters need to restock themselves separately, rather than just going directly to the bank as the supplier centrally, which is just so much more easier and organized.

That seems so odd to me. All my characters have different stuff, so it wouldn't be handy at all to have it stored in the bank.
I mostly use the bank to store generic stuff - crafting mats (between free ESO+ weeks), recipes/motifs/pages to read on alts, surveys, furniture...

Having the right things on each character is much simpler. Of course, I don't need to "restock" all that often. /shrug

etchedpixels

Elsonso wrote: »

Huh. I consider the "free Crown Crates" to be largely worthless.

Most of it off the twitch crates is trash (usually all of it) just like every other crown crate. However if you go into the crown crate menu (the one with the creepy khajiit pushing them like a skooma dealer), you can convert all the crap into gems and use them to get something more interesting at about 5-6 gems a crate. Over a year that'll give you a mount and maybe a bit more for free.

Nothing awesome but if you are trying to play on the cheap they do add up to some nice shinies.

Vulkunne

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

I imagine that without having the banker option it would be absolute chaos for members of the group, or for myself, fast traveling back and forth to town as well as a logistical nightmare trying to de-centralize supplies between characters and having those characters need to restock themselves separately, rather than just going directly to the bank as the supplier centrally, which is just so much more easier and organized.

That seems so odd to me. All my characters have different stuff, so it wouldn't be handy at all to have it stored in the bank.
I mostly use the bank to store generic stuff - crafting mats (between free ESO+ weeks), recipes/motifs/pages to read on alts, surveys, furniture...

Having the right things on each character is much simpler. Of course, I don't need to "restock" all that often. /shrug

Hah. Depends on if its a mule or not. Still trying to get back into farming transmuters so I don't need to hoard things as much.

Wow

SilverBride wrote: »

When I see players with their banker out in town all I can think is they actually spent money for this to avoid walking a few more steps. I just don't get it.

Except if you multiply few more steps with the hours you play ESO, and multiply it with the alt you have in ESO, you will find it.
Million Steps

Except some people don't need to spend money, I got my banker from trading my saved Gold in Crown Exchange discord. The convenience it adds is immense.

Thats why everytime I see guildie/discord friends asking for what item should they get from crown store, I always answer

"Banker", "Banker", "Banker"

You'll need it. Even if you are F2P players, save that gold bit by bit, and buy it. @SilverBride if you are serious about playing this game, you need the banker, trust me, just save up some gold and go to the crown exchange, you will thank me later 100% guaranteed.

Kiralyn2000

Wow wrote: »

You'll need it. Even if you are F2P players, save that gold bit by bit, and buy it. @SilverBride if you are serious about playing this game, you need the banker, trust me, just save up some gold and go to the crown exchange, you will thank me later 100% guaranteed.

8 characters, been playing since 2016. I've never seen the banker as anything other than wasted crowns.

....aaaaand looking at SilverBride's profile, they've been here since 2014.

Wow

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Wow wrote: »

You'll need it. Even if you are F2P players, save that gold bit by bit, and buy it. @SilverBride if you are serious about playing this game, you need the banker, trust me, just save up some gold and go to the crown exchange, you will thank me later 100% guaranteed.

8 characters, been playing since 2016. I've never seen the banker as anything other than wasted crowns.

....aaaaand looking at SilverBride's profile, they've been here since 2014.

Good, now look at my profile. Ever since they introduced it to the Crown Store, I have recommended banker to so many people and have yet to get anyone mad at me for wasting their crowns/gold

SilverBride

Wow wrote: »

@SilverBride if you are serious about playing this game, you need the banker, trust me, just save up some gold and go to the crown exchange, you will thank me later 100% guaranteed.

I have plenty of gold and plenty of crowns. I am not purchasing the banker because I have zero need for one.

I do not carry a lot of things around with me so I never run out of bag space. And I don't rush around as fast as I can to save a few steps or a few minutes when I am playing. I play to relax and have fun and that's what I do.

wolfie1.0.

Wow wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Wow wrote: »

You'll need it. Even if you are F2P players, save that gold bit by bit, and buy it. @SilverBride if you are serious about playing this game, you need the banker, trust me, just save up some gold and go to the crown exchange, you will thank me later 100% guaranteed.

8 characters, been playing since 2016. I've never seen the banker as anything other than wasted crowns.

....aaaaand looking at SilverBride's profile, they've been here since 2014.

Good, now look at my profile. Ever since they introduced it to the Crown Store, I have recommended banker to so many people and have yet to get anyone mad at me for wasting their crowns/gold

My top lists are:
Summerset dlc - jewelry access
Banker
Inventory pets
Character slots

Blinx

I don't have the banker(don't even think I want/need it), however I can't play without my little Fezez

Chips_Ahoy

I do not have the banker, I have the money and or the gold to buy it but I have never felt the need to have it and I will never buy it.

It is not necessary, save time? I play to waste time and have fun.

peacenote

I have been on both sides of this... some things do feel predatory to me and some seem reasonable in pursuit of keeping the ship afloat.

I do seem to recall a discussion where it was mentioned that ZOS had a new head of marketing and it actually was after this change that the new direction was noticed, moreso than when the Crown Store was released.

What's interesting/funny to me is that some things which seem more aggressive and iffy are often embraced by the community with little criticism while others seem silly but not a huge deal and cause "outrage."

Example 1--- Daily login rewards vs. Respec scrolls. Daily login rewards were released along with a change that made the Crown Store jarringly visible upon login. The rewards were CLEARLY a way to get people to log in every day and therefore have more eyes on flash Crown Store sales, especially since "exciting" rewards were always later in the month. A lot of people complained about immersion of the new UI elements, but few complained, as I did, that ZOS was blatantly trying change our login habits and buy more stuff. "How can you complain about free stuff?" was the general sentiment. My answer-- this is not "free" and if you truly just wanted to give things to loyal customers, all active players each month would get mailed the unique monthly reward and possibly other items... no action or change in habit required.

Outrage appears to be much higher now for respec scrolls, an activity that can be done in game by players for no real money. Might a few people buy them before they realize? Maybe, but most new players don't need to re-spec right away. These same players that almost immediately figure out that fake tanking is the way to get your dungeon queue to pop faster certainly can find out about in game functionality.

Example 2-- Event ticket system vs. Horse lessons.

The event tickets were originally rolled out/advertised as a way for people to be able to earn special mounts without having to spend crowns. However, the event tickets are capped with how many you can hold. There is no communication about whether current event rewards will ever come back... AND event tickets are usually highlighted at the end of an event IN THE CROWN STORE!!!

Obviously this "way to get free things" is an attempt to prey on "fear of missing out" by making the rewards seem one time only. This increases the urgency to log in every day and get tickets, and by not allowing accrual it also tries to get you to do EVERY event... AND you can only catch up by spending crowns. No one seems to care about any of this.

Meanwhile, fairly often I see people go off on a rant about horse training scrolls, even though the system was made much simpler and the there is an in-game equivalent. This is worse, how, exactly?

In my opinion, the predatory practices are the sneaky ones. The ones masquerading as "benefits" that are trying to control our habits. The flash sales and houses and mounts that are limited and people are saving up but don't know when items will come back when it is a bunch of pixels that clearly could be sold anytime. No inventory to move, no extra work at all.

Things like items having higher prices than they used to, selling things that can be done in game, having a useful feature tied to ESO+.... this is all in the straightforward, we need to sell stuff to keep the game going category and I don't mind it much. If you choose to spend money on exorbitant optional items, great, hopefully more content for everyone.

Anyway, the game needs to make money. When they are upfront about it, I'm fine with it. But don't pretend the reason you're making me claim my free event house in the Crown Store, as opposed to just applying it to my account, is somehow for my own benefit and not because you're hoping I'll forget to claim it and feel compelled to buy it later.

Castagere

The whole pay-to-win topic has always made me laugh. And when these you tubers make videos about it proves to me these people are not living in the real world. Zos and other MMO companies are in the business to make money. I hope they keep adding stuff to the shops that the whales will buy. I have played so many MMO's and the cash shops didn't affect my gameplay or enjoyment of the games. These people even call single-player games pay to win. The topic is a joke and they make videos about it to get clicks.

ForeverJenn

Of course I need all the pay for convience items from the crown store. How else am I going to have enough time to click all those monetized Youtube videos ranting about them?

Honestly, the irony in this complaint is so thick I can smell it.

AuraStorm43

You’re admitting that you wouldn’t play the game without eso plus, meaning the games pay to win to you

Yes there’s “time savers” in the crown store (you can call them pay for convenience but its the same thing as “time savers” in other games) but that ignores the time wasting, you can drop a hundred dollars or more and have a new fresh toon geared with abilities they couldn’t possibly have, skipping many hours of grinding, thats absurd, not to mention stuff like vamp/werewolf bites preys on new players

The DLC itself is gated behind a paywall as well, with many items that give gameplay advantages locked behind that paywall. Mythics, Jewelry Crafting, 2 classes, many set items, all locked behind a paywall. Its honestly insane how much is still paywalled, there’s almost as many dungeons paywalled as not, its blatant pay to win

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

I did watch the 'personal stream' replies too and some replies from the streamer were rather blunt, non fitting and a bit disrespectful.

I still believe that a cash shop should be cosmetics only, like you see in some other titles.
The pay for convenience factor of ESO leaves us asking the question 'Is the game planned around the store?' or at least certain areas of the game: 'levelling/acquiring skill lines'

Either way, I think that's the sentiment many got when these items first appeared in the store or at least I did. It's just that the store touches too many aspects of the game, it's undeniable now.

For some of us, we are Elder scrolls fans and haven't played other MMO titles in our lives, this is our first encounter with these practices. Maybe we aren't a crowd who wants to accept this?

I'll say it again: from a business model stand point, more than 1 out of 5 people are finding the game too expensive. It's time to acknowledge this and not just say: 'It bothers me to hear this'

AJones43865

Firstmep wrote: »

Hello everyone!

Recently i have seen a growing trend amount certain content creator(mainly on YouTube, not sure if it's also prevalent on Twitch), where people make exposé videos about the game monetization practices, and use answers from Rich Lambert's personal stream as a way to rail against the company.

I would like to state right now, to take everything I'm about to write here with a grain of salt. I am long time ESO player, and so I can't 100% accurately put myself in the shoes of new ESO players, and most of what I am about to write is my OPINION.
That being said, I constantly try out new games, especially rpgs and mmos, so I have a pretty good idea about the new player mindset in general.

With that being said I wanted to discuss a few points that have been brought against the crown store and the overall monetization practices of the game.

1. Certain "Pay for convenience" items are too expensive and predatory towards newer players.

a: One of the main concerns seems to be that things like respec scrolls, soul gems and other convenience items are sold at too high a premium, and essentially pray on the lack of information about the game's systems new players may have.
One of the points Rich made on his stream is him showing off how the respective respec shrine locations are available from the help menu after a quick search. I do think this was kind of an ill advised answer, since most people typically look for outside sources for game related information, whether it's friends, guildmates, websites, videos etc. Most people are pretty unlikely to rummage through Help menu for answers on how to respec.
Sadly the contra point to this in one of the YouTube exposé videos was to show off how hard it is to find this information inside the console help menu, since it doesn't actually have a search function.
However just as Rich's answer was ill advised, this video also completely fails to acknowledge the fact that most people wouldn't even be looking at the help menu for this information anyway, so the lack of accessibility on this topic is kinda moot anyway. Also the console help menu not having a search bar is likely an oversight due to consoles not typically coming with a keyboard, whilst PCs do. Still its a valid point so any dev reading please do add a searchbar for the console help menu kthx.

b: Like i already pointed out, most people will usually get there information from sources other than the ingame help menu, but i want to take this a step further.
I have been playing video games, mostly rpgs for over 20 year. I can count on one hand the amount of games, where the only way to respec a character was by spending real money in a cash shop.
This idea that new players coming in somehow believe that the only way to respec or obtain items like soul gems is through real money from the Crown Store, just seems insane to me.
I know there are eastern games out there, that actually do this, but most western developed games don't, and even eastern games adopted in the west usually do away with some of the most blatant P2W practices(or they go bust, almost always).

2. Crown store items, especially the aforementioned convenience items are too expensive.

a: First of all, just as Rich pointed out correctly on his stream, you don't just pay for the items themselves, but for the convenience to have access to those items and services anywhere, any time.
You don't just buy a respec, you buy yourself the time it would take for you to go to a major city, find the respec shrine and do it there. Suddenly the pricing starts to makes more sense.

b: One of the videos stipulated that respec scrolls cost 1 million gold, due to conversion rates. "It's costing them a million gold" .
Sorry but what?? Do you honestly believe that there are players out there, that know about how gold to crown conversion works, have a million gold or more, but don't know how to respec at a Rededication shrine?
You know what, I fully support ZOS "exploiting" this insanely large portion of the player base.

Not to mention, 1:1 comparing crown and gold prices is beyond stupid even without my previous argument, because gold to crown exchange rates change vary widely depending(typically seller side) on the source and channels which we use to convert. It's different per server, per person, per transaction. And yes this includes dedicated discord groups that help make these transactions happen.
I will say this though, I do think that many of these items are too expensive, I base their relative value, on how much time and effort purchasing them would save me, and paying half of a monthly Netflix subscription for a handful of soul gems definitely feels excessive pricing. But that's my point here, most of these items aren't particularly difficult to obtain outside the crown store, and it's likely that ZOS would make more money if they were cheaper(due to higher volume).

3. We already pay so much for the game and ESO+ is mandatory.
This a sentiment I have seen echoed not necessarily just recently, but ever since the game dropped it's original monetization model.
First of all, I want to say that ESO+ is absolutely perfect for I how play the game: When I play the game i play long hours and do a variety of activities, and when I don't, well I cancel my eso+ and the game cost me exactly nothing when I am not actually playing it.
I often hear how the craft bag is predatory, I'd say it absolutely is necessary if you plan on crafting your own items, gather materials for profit etc.
However those activities are all associated with long playtimes, and general dedication to playing the game. A single cinema ticket for a couple of hours of entertainment will cost you more than eso+.
Oh and btw, all those items you store in your super expensive crafting bag actually use data. Data that has to be stored and indexed physically somewhere else, on top of providing you access to said data any time you want to. And that costs money. And yes the company makes a profit off of it. So what? I swear people act like they have never worked for a business or owned one themselves.
In business you have to be profitable, just to justify the existence of the very business you run/work for. If this game wasn't profitable, than this game wouldn't exist.
That's how the real world works. This game provides hundreds, even thousands of hours of entertainment, for a fraction of the cost as most other entertainment media does.
Seriously, look at cinema tickets nowadays, and see how much it would cost you to spend even a hundred hours watching movies at a theatre. Yeah..
There's a reason why video streaming services are so popular nowadays, after all.

4. My last point is using Rich's personal stream and statements to rail against company policies that you don't like.
Rich Lambert is the creative director at ZOS, if you think that he is personally responsible for what's inside the crown store and how much it costs, you need a healthy dose of reality.
Please stop using someone's personal stream, which they do for fun btw, to create outrage against company policy. Rich is not a one man ZOS developer team, and just because you can't find the people personally responsible for the issues you have with the game, that doesn't mean you have the right to pin your anger on the first person you can find.
I see this behavior happen against the community managers on a daily basis, usually on subjects they have no control over, and it's just as bad.
It's basically the equivalent of calling a customer service of a company, and shouting at and degrading the CS agent, because you have and issue with the company itself.
It's called misplaced anger, and yall need look the definition up.


As a final word, if anyone thinks I am trying whiteknight or shill for ZOS: please look at my post history, I have never been afraid to criticize the company or even certain parts of the dev team if I felt like it.
I made this post, because I feel like a lot of the recent outrage about these crown store items were either badly argued, due to lack of information, or seeing the big picture, or in some cases were outright malicious looking to grab those sweet juicy outrage views.(Fact is, these items have been in the crown store for years, but never before I have seen such a concentrated effort from multiple content creators to pile up on the subject matter.)

I hope this post adheres all the community rules, etc etc bla bla.

Have a good one everyone!

I agree in every aspect but one. When people have to pay, relatively speaking, a lot for something, they are supposed to get a lot in return.

What is happening is prices are going through the roof for everything, but for years there has not been any reinvestment of those funds into the game and performance issues. So, for this thinking to be reasonable, the game would have to have seen significant stability and performance improvements.

We have not seen any stability or performance improvements for all this extra revenue ZOS is raking in. That is the problem. They are jacking up the prices but not delivering on their end of the deal.

AJones43865

carlos424 wrote: »

Why can’t zos put a little disclaimer on crown store items that can be obtained in-game? “This item can also be obtained in-game. For more information see the help menu.” Or something to that effect.

One of the big issues is that very few things are explained. There is no guide that I know of. You just get a few information blurbs during load screens.

My question is why can't ZOS invest a higher portion of their revenue into fixing stability and performance issues. Then the higher prices for everything would make sense and be acceptable.

Kiralyn2000

AuraStorm43 wrote: »

you can drop a hundred dollars or more and have a new fresh toon geared with abilities they couldn’t possibly have, skipping many hours of grinding, thats absurd,

You're right, it's absurd that someone would even consider wasting money like that, rather than playing the game.

The DLC itself is gated behind a paywall as well, with many items that give gameplay advantages locked behind that paywall. Mythics, Jewelry Crafting, 2 classes, many set items, all locked behind a paywall. Its honestly insane how much is still paywalled, there’s almost as many dungeons paywalled as not, its blatant pay to win

If you consider "You have to buy an expansion or DLC to get content" as "paywalled" and "pay to win", then nearly every game ever made (and all non-f2p MMOs) fit that.

"But there's good stuff in those DLC, so you have to 'pay' if you want to 'win'/compete". Here's the thing. If a new DLC or expansion didn't have new features, people would scream about Why Bother, What's The Point?!?! And if there's actually useful new mechanics/gameplay/etc, then you guys scream about "paywalls" and "p2w"!

Sounds like a catch-22.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

AJones43865 wrote: »

carlos424 wrote: »

Why can’t zos put a little disclaimer on crown store items that can be obtained in-game? “This item can also be obtained in-game. For more information see the help menu.” Or something to that effect.

One of the big issues is that very few things are explained. There is no guide that I know of. You just get a few information blurbs during load screens.

My question is why can't ZOS invest a higher portion of their revenue into fixing stability and performance issues. Then the higher prices for everything would make sense and be acceptable.

They have improved some areas of the game, but in a general sense it did take a long time and it isn't finished.

redspecter23 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Wow wrote: »

You do need the banker. Everytime I see guildie/discord friends asking for what item should they get from crown store, I always answer

"Banker", "Banker", "Banker"

You'll need it

I don't have the banker and never will because I see no use for it. When I need to bank I just go to any town with a bank and use theirs.

When I see players with their banker out in town all I can think is they actually spent money for this to avoid walking a few more steps. I just don't get it.

It's personal preference and most would consider it a time saver. In town, it's a few steps. If you're in a dungeon, it's those same few steps plus two load screens and some more steps coming back multiplied by 4 because everyone in your group may be waiting for you. The banker saves significant time in those moments.

Is it necessary? No. Does it save time? Definitely. How much that time save is worth to any given person is subjective.

I have a banker, merchant and the fence (all bought when they came out)
I understand the benefit and the pleasure of being able to 'Oh I'll get my NPC out!', but the fact that reskins came out (at the same price) is a bit disappointing, but it doesn't just stop at the banker as many items are just reskins over the years at the same price too.

The problems with the store are various.

AuraStorm43

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

AuraStorm43 wrote: »

you can drop a hundred dollars or more and have a new fresh toon geared with abilities they couldn’t possibly have, skipping many hours of grinding, thats absurd,

You're right, it's absurd that someone would even consider wasting money like that, rather than playing the game.

The DLC itself is gated behind a paywall as well, with many items that give gameplay advantages locked behind that paywall. Mythics, Jewelry Crafting, 2 classes, many set items, all locked behind a paywall. Its honestly insane how much is still paywalled, there’s almost as many dungeons paywalled as not, its blatant pay to win

If you consider "You have to buy an expansion or DLC to get content" as "paywalled" and "pay to win", then nearly every game ever made (and all non-f2p MMOs) fit that.

"But there's good stuff in those DLC, so you have to 'pay' if you want to 'win'/compete". Here's the thing. If a new DLC or expansion didn't have new features, people would scream about Why Bother, What's The Point?!?! And if there's actually useful new mechanics/gameplay/etc, then you guys scream about "paywalls" and "p2w"!

Sounds like a catch-22.

The thing is the items in the DLC are far and away better than anything you can get in the base game

Find me a setup that hits over 90k dps without a single dlc item, even if its possible thats 10k-15k dps under what the high end people are hitting at the high end right now, if you don’t buy DLC you are put at a significant distadvantage so it is pay to win