My thoughts on the recent outrage about ESO's monetization practices

Jeremy

AuraStorm43 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Other games are far worse.

SWTOR for example doesn't even let you level to max or wear high level gear without paying money.

FF14 you can't play at all.

Once you buy the game (which is fairly cheap) you get pretty much full access, especially if you have previously purchased all the expansions.

Yeah, the convenience and cosmetic items in the Crown Store are over-priced. No doubt about it. But it really doesn't bother me because none of that stuff is even remotely necessary to enjoy the game.

Those games doing something bad doesn’t make ESO good

deflorate wrote: »

zzzzzz

You don't need to buy anything. You can turn in-game gold into crowns and that doesn't take farming every single day for years, just paying attention and understanding the game. This is dumb.

“Don’t like it don’t buy it” isn’t an argument, Rich said the same thing and its still stupid, it doesn’t change that new players are being exploited

Maybe. But it's hard to make the argument that ESO does a bad job with monetization while giving us more content for our money than the competition.

I also don't see what's so stupid about the argument "don't like it don't buy it". Seems like a pretty good one to me. But there might be something to your claim that it exploits newer players, since they may not know any better than to get ripped off buying respec scrolls.

Casul

Elvenheart wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

MatarRebel wrote: »

If a company's practices or policies "enrage" you, you should stop using their services. Period. This ain't rocket science. Don't like it? Build you own product and community. Quit trying to change what a huge number of people already use and appreciate.

Which many of us are, I finally deleted the game after 6 years of consistent support. Just because we aren't playing doesn't mean we can't speak our minds of why we made the decision.

You’ve played and enjoyed the game for six years, but quit because ZOS sells in-game items to customers who choose to buy them? If you enjoy the game enough wouldn’t a better way to fight the depravities of monetization in a game you enjoy be to play and enjoy it in a way that gives ZOS as little money as possible, like never buying crowns and not subscribing to ESO+, just maybe getting the DLC if it’s something you like? This is just my opinion of course, but for me, giving up something I enjoy as much as I enjoy ESO just to make a point would end up hurting me far more than it would ever hurt ZOS, no matter how much money I spend on the game over the course of its life.

There lies the other issue though, regardless of the monetization issue, PvP is also terrible right now. Can't enjoy the content I want to and no amount of money I could invest would make it run any better. It is not just 1 major issue, it's a plethora of issues that add up to me not wanting to support the game anymore (not just financially but also dismissing it to people when they ask about the experience).

Jaxious79 wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

Jaxious79 wrote: »

AuraStorm43 wrote: »

Jaxious79 wrote: »

"Outrage" "youtube" come on. They are just looking for clicks there is nothing wrong with the cash shop they are not out to get you or take advantage of you.

Its not just “outrage youtubers” and if you can’t see anything wrong with the crown store i dunno what to tell you

Well good thing I'm not asking anyone here to tell me anything. I don't see anything wrong with the crown store I have a different opinion and that is fine. If these youtubers were not all at the same time talking about the same thing you wouldn't be here either. See I can form my own opinion without listening to YouTube.

Or most of us have been silent and now that there is a more public outroar we are joining in hopes that the developers actually care.

The Game is as populated as ever right now. People are everywhere, try logging into the game instead of watching youtubers about the game.

You and "most" of whoever else you are referring to are a tiny majority of the player base.

Game will of course look populated if you don't look towards the community that is being neglected. I don't want to make this topic off rail but PvP is mainly where people are leaving. But for some the monetization issue was the straw that broke the camel's back.

FlopsyPrince

MatarRebel wrote: »

If a company's practices or policies "enrage" you, you should stop using their services. Period. This ain't rocket science. Don't like it? Build you own product and community. Quit trying to change what a huge number of people already use and appreciate.

You like paying Crowns for things that are fairly cheap in the game? I have not heard anyone else make this claim. How do you know others like it too?

(Mods: I am looking for his answer. I am very curious how many here like this aspect.)

Reading it over again, I would agree that anyone who gets enraged with a game should stop playing it and do something else.

FlopsyPrince

Jeremy wrote: »

AuraStorm43 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Other games are far worse.

SWTOR for example doesn't even let you level to max or wear high level gear without paying money.

FF14 you can't play at all.

Once you buy the game (which is fairly cheap) you get pretty much full access, especially if you have previously purchased all the expansions.

Yeah, the convenience and cosmetic items in the Crown Store are over-priced. No doubt about it. But it really doesn't bother me because none of that stuff is even remotely necessary to enjoy the game.

Those games doing something bad doesn’t make ESO good

deflorate wrote: »

zzzzzz

You don't need to buy anything. You can turn in-game gold into crowns and that doesn't take farming every single day for years, just paying attention and understanding the game. This is dumb.

“Don’t like it don’t buy it” isn’t an argument, Rich said the same thing and its still stupid, it doesn’t change that new players are being exploited

Maybe. But it's hard to make the argument that ESO does a bad job with monetization while giving us more content for our money than the competition.

I also don't see what's so stupid about the argument "don't like it don't buy it". Seems like a pretty good one to me. But there might be something to your claim that it exploits newer players, since they may not know any better than to get ripped off buying respec scrolls.

It is bad because most who say that like the product. They just want it to improve. That is common of many things people ultimately like.

I am not sure your claim of "more content for the money" is really true.

I have wondered for a while why the WoW exodus rarely (never in my view) mentions ESO as an alternative. I was not impressed with the interface to FFXIV when I tried it, so I would think ESO should at least get many mentions.

etchedpixels

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

not sure your claim of "more content for the money" is really true.

I have wondered for a while why the WoW exodus rarely (never in my view) mentions ESO as an alternative. I was not impressed with the interface to FFXIV when I tried it, so I would think ESO should at least get many mentions.

There are plenty of WoW players in the guilds I am in but most of them already have played both and seem to switch back and forth and to new games depending which game is the more fun and where their friends are at the time.

FFIV is "new"(ish) so people are still switching to it. ESO is old, lots of people in other games played it before, moved on and sometimes move back.

SilverBride

BuildMan wrote: »

But for some the monetization issue was the straw that broke the camel's back.

How can something that is completely unnecessary cause anyone to quit playing?

You can successfully play this game without ever visiting the crown store. In all the years I've played I have only bought crowns twice, and only then because I wanted something really bad and treated myself to the luxury. There is nothing wrong with that.

Where the problem comes in is when players think they need to get every new shiny that comes around and do not have the self control to curb their own spending. That is a consumer problem that only the consumer can remedy.

Kwoung

etchedpixels wrote: »

FFIV is "new"(ish) so people are still switching to it. ESO is old, lots of people in other games played it before, moved on and sometimes move back.

FFXIV: Released 2010 - 2012
FFXIV: Re-released as "A Realm Reborn" 2013
ESO: Release 2014

FlopsyPrince

SilverBride wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

But for some the monetization issue was the straw that broke the camel's back.

How can something that is completely unnecessary cause anyone to quit playing?

You can successfully play this game without ever visiting the crown store. In all the years I've played I have only bought crowns twice, and only then because I wanted something really bad and treated myself to the luxury. There is nothing wrong with that.

Where the problem comes in is when players think they need to get every new shiny that comes around and do not have the self control to curb their own spending. That is a consumer problem that only the consumer can remedy.

It is not so much the shiny items. It is bad practices.

I tend to spend money on things I play. I am not a whale by any means, but I do spend some. What bothers me more is that I have 50K+ Crowns exiled on the PS4 when these are supposedly tied to "my account" as the splash screens tell me. Though I don't much care for the prices on cheap in game items.

The response of the PR front is annoying as well, especially cursing people for disagreeing.

Casul

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

But for some the monetization issue was the straw that broke the camel's back.

How can something that is completely unnecessary cause anyone to quit playing?

You can successfully play this game without ever visiting the crown store. In all the years I've played I have only bought crowns twice, and only then because I wanted something really bad and treated myself to the luxury. There is nothing wrong with that.

Where the problem comes in is when players think they need to get every new shiny that comes around and do not have the self control to curb their own spending. That is a consumer problem that only the consumer can remedy.

It is not so much the shiny items. It is bad practices.

I tend to spend money on things I play. I am not a whale by any means, but I do spend some. What bothers me more is that I have 50K+ Crowns exiled on the PS4 when these are supposedly tied to "my account" as the splash screens tell me. Though I don't much care for the prices on cheap in game items.

The response of the PR front is annoying as well, especially cursing people for disagreeing.

I spent a bit trying to organize my thoughts, but I am going to use what FlopsyPrince said. Everything is isolated. Outfit slots, armory slots, content between servers and platforms. I know most is software limitations but all these things on top of seeing gem prices go up while game quality goes down leaves a bad impression. And again I know ESO needs funding but I would rather we go sub to pay then have everything behind a crown store.

Edit: I also have not seen the clip of Rich cursing people but had heard the controversy. But I want to stay impartial till I had seen the clip with full context.

Hurbster

Charging crowns, ie real money for things that are readily available in the game for not a lot of gold is wrong and certainly IS predatory. The respec scrolls and the vampire/werewolf cures are specifically targeting players who don't know you can just buy them.

I have said it before and I will say it again. I like the game a lot but if anything causes me to leave the game it is the cash shop. It is not a free to play game and should not act as such.

SilverBride

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

I tend to spend money on things I play.

That is your choice, not a requirement.

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

What bothers me more is that I have 50K+ Crowns exiled on the PS4 when these are supposedly tied to "my account" as the splash screens tell me.

That is a customer service issue that needs to be worked out with them.

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Though I don't much care for the prices on cheap in game items.

Then don't purchase them.

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

The response of the PR front is annoying as well, especially cursing people for disagreeing.

This is also not a monetization issue.

SilverBride

Hurbster wrote: »

Charging crowns, ie real money for things that are readily available in the game for not a lot of gold is wrong and certainly IS predatory. The respec scrolls and the vampire/werewolf cures are specifically targeting players who don't know you can just buy them.

Most players do not run right to the crown store to look for Vampire or Werewolf cures. They ask their guildies or friends or in zone chat what they need to do to cure. It is intuitive to ask others how to do this or that and not immediately assume that everything is tied behind crowns.

Kiralyn2000

Here's the thing - "I don't like how they run the Crown store", doesn't effect my enjoyment of playing the game. Because I mostly ignore the Crown store.

Last time I bought Crowns was Black Friday 2017. Got 3k Crowns for $16. That, plus a few I got from ESO+ subs in 2016, is all the Crowns I've had & spent. Got 550 left. Grabbed a few costumes, plus zone DLC when they were on sale during their events (500 for TG, 500 for DB, etc)

(my other purchases since then were Summerset+Morrowind when Summerset came out, and Blackwood+Greymoor+Elsweyr this past fall during the sale.)

Jeffrey530

AuraStorm43 wrote: »

etchedpixels wrote: »

AuraStorm43 wrote: »

Find me a setup that hits over 90k dps without a single dlc item, even if its possible thats 10k-15k dps under what the high end people are hitting at the high end right now, if you don’t buy DLC you are put at a significant distadvantage so it is pay to win

By that logic you can't do any DPS at all if you never bought the game so all games are pay to win. P2W is more normally a term associated with games where purchasing lots of lootboxes or cash shop items is required to be able to play at any level. There's no hard line sure but your interpretation seems extreme.

Also I'll point out - if you only have the base content you don't need to 90K dps for any of it

Um, no thats not what i said at all, I said by not paying additional money you are put at a disadvantage, you are paying for advantages in this case, how is that not pay to win?

I think you underestimate just how much of this game is behind a paywall, nearly half the dungeons in this game are paywalled

You wanna pay for the base game (which is cheaper than a cinema ticket) and get access to additional content and dlcs for free?

Just show us how you would make enough profit to keep the lights on, pay the devs, convince the higher ups in the board room not to shut the game down and no one will argue with you. Or alrernatively, find us an example of another mmorpg with the scale and quality of eso that gives dlcs out for free after a single purchase of base game.

Hate to pop your bubble but gaming companies aren't ngos

Jeffrey530

Charon_on_Vacation wrote: »

everyone can decide themselves if they see it as a problem or not, but there is one undeniable fact.
crown crates were made with the intent to exploit the behaviour of customers. same goes for FOMO.
that is the reason why they exist. to exploit customers.
you can say its the customers fault for falling for it, and if that is your opinion, fine.
but keep in mind, they intentionally made those loot boxes to exploit the people that do fall for it.

Yea right if you look at it that way then marketing itself is exploitation of consumers. Look at 'limited time sale','artificial scarcity','advertising only the beneficial side of the product', 'fomo' as you said.

Honestly it is up to the consumers to decide whether they would purchase the products, or else you might as well pitch for the banning of advertising and sales strategy lol, which is not sensible at all.

Kwoung

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

Charon_on_Vacation wrote: »

everyone can decide themselves if they see it as a problem or not, but there is one undeniable fact.
crown crates were made with the intent to exploit the behaviour of customers. same goes for FOMO.
that is the reason why they exist. to exploit customers.
you can say its the customers fault for falling for it, and if that is your opinion, fine.
but keep in mind, they intentionally made those loot boxes to exploit the people that do fall for it.

Yea right if you look at it that way then marketing itself is exploitation of consumers. Look at 'limited time sale','artificial scarcity','advertising only the beneficial side of the product', 'fomo' as you said.

Honestly it is up to the consumers to decide whether they would purchase the products, or else you might as well pitch for the banning of advertising and sales strategy lol, which is not sensible at all.

Honestly, FOMO is a everyday occurrence in the ESO crown store... and that is the only place I have ever encountered it in my 60+ years as a consumer. It is not a widely used practice in marketing by any means, and the places I have heard of it, were truly limited time purchases, like those fancy Air Jordans or whatever, of which they only make a few of, retire the mold and are actual collector items you can trade or sell, not a fake digital item locked to your account and they will re-release over and over and over as a "limited time item", and eventually disappear when the game ends.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

SilverBride wrote: »

Hurbster wrote: »

Charging crowns, ie real money for things that are readily available in the game for not a lot of gold is wrong and certainly IS predatory. The respec scrolls and the vampire/werewolf cures are specifically targeting players who don't know you can just buy them.

Most players do not run right to the crown store to look for Vampire or Werewolf cures. They ask their guildies or friends or in zone chat what they need to do to cure. It is intuitive to ask others how to do this or that and not immediately assume that everything is tied behind crowns.

Hi Silverbride,

Firstly, I'm sorry. I don't know how to write small messages, but I make them as clean as possible for you to read quickly.

I read through some of your replies and I thought I'd give my opinion, once again to see the 'global package' deal we have been offered over the years and they way it has evolved or become more present than before. I won't ever give one phrase replies to negate what someone is saying, so please read through if you have the time.

Things our producer undeniably knows and how/who to market to:

Organised raids groups abide by/require you to have:
Kinras/Perfected Bahsei and various Mythical items
Note: Their peers will pressure them into getting these items and will help most of the time.
A subscription is required to be a full time raider (If not: Buy all DLC and have your own personal guild bank)
General community response: Too many meta changes/don't like being pushed

In terms of (some) newer/less social/play alone types:
The game has been recently re-marketed for an easier approach to the game. People who have or are still coming in are the ones who weren't either of age at the time or weren't enticed with ESO's older business model/gaming propositions.
Not all people are able to make smart decisions all the time and especially if they don't have access to the information in a clarified manner (I know the help section exists) IN some regards I believe it's predatory from the basis of the character types I meet in game as an ex/long time guild master and a day to day player.
Note: A subscription is not required for a casual player, but if they aspire to more, then yes.

PvP for all concerned:
Battlegrounds and their issues/changes/restrictions
PvP Cyrodiil and the live testing/changes/restrictions/performance/strange set deployments/guild breaking/departures
Imperial City and the fact that it only really 'works' one time a year/no changes/skills not working
Note: From my own personal experience, this is the only section of the game you can play without the subscription and it's benefits.
I see more and more familiar PvP names popping up in PvE high end raids, interesting?

I get that ESO has to make money to be successful and I wish them that! I've followed their affiliates for years, but I don't agree with the respec scrolls and their pricing nor do see eye to eye with money on top of money (Sub+the rest+conveniences), but that's just me I guess and perhaps other's feel the same way because the game does 'represent' us in a way, right?

On other note (but also linked to the topic) There's an interesting video from 2010 which talks about Casual vs Hardcore game styles and the way they can be marketed. I suggest you have a look: It's from the GDC vault and it's titled 'Casual is the new hardcore'.

SilverBride

Kwoung wrote: »

FOMO is a everyday occurrence in the ESO crown store... and that is the only place I have ever encountered it in my 60+ years as a consumer.

You've never seen "3 Day Sale!" or "For a Limited Time Only!" advertisements anywhere else? That is what a sale is... a temporary price reduction... and they are everywhere. This is how sales and advertising work and is far from exclusive to the crown store.

FOMO (fear of missing out) is a problem with self control.

RicAlmighty

Kwoung wrote: »

Honestly, FOMO is a everyday occurrence in the ESO crown store... and that is the only place I have ever encountered it in my 60+ years as a consumer

[snip]

Go play Destiny 2 for a bit if you want to see what *real* FOMO looks like. ESO practically gives things away in comparison. There are dozens of other games that have much worse practices than ESO. Yes most of them are "free to play" but let's be honest with ourselves, a lot of new players are here because the base game has been on sale for < $10 at least a dozen times in the past 2 years. If you are ok with "predatory monetization" for free games, but not for games that cost < $10, then that is a rather specific line you have chosen to draw. The Crown store, as almost all micro-transaction stores is *completely optional* and can be fully ignored by a player without drastically impacting their gameplay experience.

In game stores are not "predatory" because a player cannot control their own impulses. I also find it funny how players complain about other players constantly but suddenly become staunch player advocates when it comes to "predatory monetization." That phrase has become the gaming equivalent of "but think about the children!"

[edited for bashing]

SilverBride

@Youyouz06

I appreciate the thought that you put into your post, but don't see how most of it is connected to monetization.

"Organised raids groups abide by/require you to have:"

These are prerequisites that players are imposing on other players. ZoS isn't requiring any of this, or requiring crown store purchases for group content.

"Not all people are able to make smart decisions all the time and especially if they don't have access to the information in a clarified manner."

Players need to learn to make smart decisions. The information is out there everywhere. Just ask guildies or friends or in zone or look it up online.

"PvP for all concerned:"

The current state of PvP isn't connected to the crown store.

Kwoung

SilverBride wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

FOMO is a everyday occurrence in the ESO crown store... and that is the only place I have ever encountered it in my 60+ years as a consumer.

You've never seen "3 Day Sale!" or "For a Limited Time Only!" advertisements anywhere else? That is what a sale is... a temporary price reduction... and they are everywhere. This is how sales and advertising work and is far from exclusive to the crown store.

FOMO (fear of missing out) is a problem with self control.

An item going on sale is *not* the same as it being removed from the market for an indefinite time period, by a long shot.

SilverBride

Kwoung wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

FOMO is a everyday occurrence in the ESO crown store... and that is the only place I have ever encountered it in my 60+ years as a consumer.

You've never seen "3 Day Sale!" or "For a Limited Time Only!" advertisements anywhere else? That is what a sale is... a temporary price reduction... and they are everywhere. This is how sales and advertising work and is far from exclusive to the crown store.

FOMO (fear of missing out) is a problem with self control.

An item going on sale is *not* the same as it being removed from the market for an indefinite time period, by a long shot.

There are limited time only items all the time in real life, especially around the holidays when items exclusively for that holiday or event are only sold only during that time. This occurrence is not new or exclusive to ESO or the crown store.

Kwoung

RicAlmighty wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Honestly, FOMO is a everyday occurrence in the ESO crown store... and that is the only place I have ever encountered it in my 60+ years as a consumer

[snip]

Go play Destiny 2 for a bit if you want to see what *real* FOMO looks like. ESO practically gives things away in comparison. There are dozens of other games that have much worse practices than ESO. Yes most of them are "free to play" but let's be honest with ourselves, a lot of new players are here because the base game has been on sale for < $10 at least a dozen times in the past 2 years. If you are ok with "predatory monetization" for free games, but not for games that cost < $10, then that is a rather specific line you have chosen to draw. The Crown store, as almost all micro-transaction stores is *completely optional* and can be fully ignored by a player without drastically impacting their gameplay experience.

In game stores are not "predatory" because a player cannot control their own impulses. I also find it funny how players complain about other players constantly but suddenly become staunch player advocates when it comes to "predatory monetization." That phrase has become the gaming equivalent of "but think about the children!"

Mounts, housing, outfits are all a huge part of the online game experience, where personalization are as big a part of the game as killing stuff. Exactly how many of each of those can you earn in game vs the vast amount the crown store offers, and how does the quality of items between them compare?

As I clearly stated previously, I have no issue with them having a crown store, I have issue with almost none of those items being able to be earned in game. Also, after waiting almost 2 years for a particular house I missed because I was on vacation the first go around, I think the limited time thing with no idea of when it may come back around sucks. Simply putting stuff on a set rotation would be a 1000% improvement, but using the whole "If you miss it now, it may or may not ever come back around, and if it does will only be for 3 days, so you better buy it now" practice, is pretty lame.

[edited to remove quote]

Kwoung

SilverBride wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

FOMO is a everyday occurrence in the ESO crown store... and that is the only place I have ever encountered it in my 60+ years as a consumer.

You've never seen "3 Day Sale!" or "For a Limited Time Only!" advertisements anywhere else? That is what a sale is... a temporary price reduction... and they are everywhere. This is how sales and advertising work and is far from exclusive to the crown store.

FOMO (fear of missing out) is a problem with self control.

An item going on sale is *not* the same as it being removed from the market for an indefinite time period, by a long shot.

There are limited time only items all the time in real life, especially around the holidays when items exclusively for that holiday or event are only sold only during that time. This occurrence is not new or exclusive to ESO or the crown store.

Well actually, you can buy those holiday items at any time of year, the stores just don't stock them on the shelves, well because almost no one wants xmas ornaments in March and it would be a waste of limited shelf space... something that a digital store selling digital items never has to worry about.

A real life example of the crown store would be more like my wanting to move to Portland and buy a house, of which they have unlimited numbers of..., except they only allowed house buying in Portland 8 months ago. Now I need to keep checking the Portland website to see if they are once again allowing home buying there, a day which may or may not ever come and in the meantime, I am outta luck... but can move to Orlando, because they are currently allowing home buying for the next 3 days only... so I better decide fast!

SilverBride

Kwoung wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

There are limited time only items all the time in real life, especially around the holidays when items exclusively for that holiday or event are only sold only during that time. This occurrence is not new or exclusive to ESO or the crown store.

Well actually, you can buy those holiday items at any time of year, the stores just don't stock them on the shelves, well because almost no one wants xmas ornaments in March and it would be a waste of limited shelf space... something that a digital store selling digital items never has to worry about.

I'm not talking about items like generic Christmas ornaments. There are also exclusive limited time items, such as a figurine that is only sold at Christmas with the current year stamped on it. They only manufacture so many of this type of item.

I do see your point though that there should be a calendar of when limited offers will be available in the crown store, and/or more advance notice. A better notification system would be nice and would probably increase their sale of these items.

blktauna

AuraStorm43 wrote: »

Its not just PVP on the PVE front you are put at a significant disadvantage by not paying, it really adds up between mythics, lack of jewelry crafting, and lack of newer better gear

You can’t even get maelstrom weapons without orsinium, and every PVE build runs them

I'd have to disagree here. I have no use for these maelstrom weapons and do not use them. I am also fairly successful at completing the content I want to complete. I don't use mythics in pve either. I do the occasional vet dungeon and trials but am perfectly capable of doing what needs doing.

A lot of folks fall prey to some overblown guild demanding they have x,y and z or they can't do the run, then that's not true at all. Well, the guild can require what it likes but you are being misled if you think the content can't be done.

Kwoung

Jaxious79 wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

FOMO is a everyday occurrence in the ESO crown store... and that is the only place I have ever encountered it in my 60+ years as a consumer.

You've never seen "3 Day Sale!" or "For a Limited Time Only!" advertisements anywhere else? That is what a sale is... a temporary price reduction... and they are everywhere. This is how sales and advertising work and is far from exclusive to the crown store.

FOMO (fear of missing out) is a problem with self control.

An item going on sale is *not* the same as it being removed from the market for an indefinite time period, by a long shot.

There are limited time only items all the time in real life, especially around the holidays when items exclusively for that holiday or event are only sold only during that time. This occurrence is not new or exclusive to ESO or the crown store.

Well actually, you can buy those holiday items at any time of year, the stores just don't stock them on the shelves, well because almost no one wants xmas ornaments in March and it would be a waste of limited shelf space... something that a digital store selling digital items never has to worry about.

A real life example of the crown store would be more like my wanting to move to Portland and buy a house, of which they have unlimited numbers of..., except they only allowed house buying in Portland 8 months ago. Now I need to keep checking the Portland website to see if they are once again allowing home buying there, a day which may or may not ever come and in the meantime, I am outta luck... but can move to Orlando, because they are currently allowing home buying for the next 3 days only... so I better decide fast!

[snip]

Umm no, that is exactly what ZOS does. I missed buying a home some 3 years ago because I went on a cruise, then had to wait for 2 years for it to come around again. Their service staff wouldn't sell me the home, even though I wasn't around when they offered it, they wouldn't tell me when it would be available again, so I could make other plans if necessary and well.. the entire situation just sucked. If it was available to be earned in game, regardless of how heinous the quest would be, I am pretty sure I could have earned in in way less than 2 years. Their current system basically sucks, it isn't just all about FOMO, it is about punishing people that actually have a life, because if you don't log in at least 2x a week, you may miss the one thing you actually wanted in the Crown Store.

And yes, the real life example was so far from reality it would never happen... so why does it happen in ESO?

[edited to remove quote]

merpins

It's less about ZoS doing it and more about the practice in general. Think back to MMOs like WOW. In wow, you could unlock most cosmetic stuff through working at it in game, you know, playing the game for a long time and earning it. Loot boxes didn't exist back then, or at least they weren't the norm. Just because you don't have a problem not spending tons of money on it doesn't mean other people don't, it's a predatory system that takes advantage of addiction and human nature.

Here's how they could fix that system: keep the loot box system, but remove the ability to buy them for real money. Make it so in order to get loot boxes, you have to do game content, you have to play their game. The more you play and enjoy the game, the more likely you're going to spend money or endorse the game, which in turn makes them more money. Maybe even make it end game content; this would make the loot boxes the end game alongside housing, since let's face it, housing is the only real end game content right now. Remove the endeavor system, it's not necessary with this system in place, and add radiant apex mounts to in-game events rather than through the loot box system, then at a later date add them to the cash shop to be purchased outright without having to get loot boxes for players that missed the event, incentivizing them to pay attention to be there when these events drop so they don't miss the exclusive free mounts and therefore have to buy them. Obviously make these events difficult to complete so it's rewarding. In fact, you could keep the endeavor system but it's to purchase the mounts that you missed during the events. You can buy for these endeavor tokens, or for crowns. That'd make sense. Then remove other predatory things from the cash shop or include a descriptive warning. For example, soul gems could have a warning that tells you how to get them. Ww and vamp bites could tell you how to get them in game, same with the cures along with the cost of the cure for gold in game, AND the respecs that are in game. Something like you go to buy a skill respec in the cash shop and it says, in bold red letters "This service is available in game in Grahtwood, Deshan, and Stormhaven for x (the amount it would cost based on your level) gold. Are you sure you want to buy this for crowns?" These services only really prey on those that are super lazy, people that are in dungeons/trials, or in most cases, new players who don't know better. 90% comes from such players, which is why it's predatory.

Hurbster

How does it go again? Oh yeah 'sunk cost fallacy'.

FlopsyPrince

SilverBride wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

I tend to spend money on things I play.

That is your choice, not a requirement.

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

What bothers me more is that I have 50K+ Crowns exiled on the PS4 when these are supposedly tied to "my account" as the splash screens tell me.

That is a customer service issue that needs to be worked out with them.

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Though I don't much care for the prices on cheap in game items.

Then don't purchase them.

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

The response of the PR front is annoying as well, especially cursing people for disagreeing.

This is also not a monetization issue.

You fail to realize this is all tied together. It is all part of a package that is not good. Any one of items would be annoying, overall they indicate more.

Claiming my first issue is a "Customer Service" one is naïve. I have tried that route and god no help whatsoever. I am not going to complain loudly here, but it remains very annoying and noting it is appropriate in a thread discussing Crown Store practices (as are the reactions of their PR outlets on Crown Store items).

They can of course do what they want. I am also allowed to express that it bothers me, I hope. I wish I could see change, but the only are they really changed was when a lot of the same videocasters being complained about here brought up unfair action in other areas.

I hope they learn to harness solid feedback mechanisms to improve what they offer and better please those who ultimately pay their salaries. Falling back on "just quit" is not an acceptable approach except in rare cases.