My thoughts on the recent outrage about ESO's monetization practices

etchedpixels

AuraStorm43 wrote: »

Find me a setup that hits over 90k dps without a single dlc item, even if its possible thats 10k-15k dps under what the high end people are hitting at the high end right now, if you don’t buy DLC you are put at a significant distadvantage so it is pay to win

By that logic you can't do any DPS at all if you never bought the game so all games are pay to win. P2W is more normally a term associated with games where purchasing lots of lootboxes or cash shop items is required to be able to play at any level. There's no hard line sure but your interpretation seems extreme.

Also I'll point out - if you only have the base content you don't need to 90K dps for any of it

AuraStorm43

etchedpixels wrote: »

AuraStorm43 wrote: »

Find me a setup that hits over 90k dps without a single dlc item, even if its possible thats 10k-15k dps under what the high end people are hitting at the high end right now, if you don’t buy DLC you are put at a significant distadvantage so it is pay to win

By that logic you can't do any DPS at all if you never bought the game so all games are pay to win. P2W is more normally a term associated with games where purchasing lots of lootboxes or cash shop items is required to be able to play at any level. There's no hard line sure but your interpretation seems extreme.

Also I'll point out - if you only have the base content you don't need to 90K dps for any of it

Um, no thats not what i said at all, I said by not paying additional money you are put at a disadvantage, you are paying for advantages in this case, how is that not pay to win?

I think you underestimate just how much of this game is behind a paywall, nearly half the dungeons in this game are paywalled

Kiralyn2000

AuraStorm43 wrote: »

I think you underestimate just how much of this game is behind a paywall, nearly half the dungeons in this game are paywalled

And if you don't buy the new WoW expansion, you're locked out of a pile of dungeons and raids. (as well as PvP, since they have level cap increases, so you get left behind as the rest of the PvPers advance to a higher level bracket & power level)

Ditto with every other MMO that has expansions/zone DLC/etc.

And any other RPG that has expansions that introduce new areas & dungeons. (wow, all of Far Harbor & Nuka World were paywalled in Fallout 4! Plus new weapons & armor! /shocked)


Why am I supposed to be upset, here? I've been buying game expansions/etc since at least the 90's.

xaraan

Personally, I have no problem with the game trying to profit, that's what companies are for. They make money, they pay that money to investors (the guys that helped finance the game up front) and to employees, it's how the world works. So I don't want to demonize the basic aspect of being profitable. Especially on a game that is buy to play (even though ESO+ is almost a necessity for any serious play). I guess my point is, the cash shop on a base level is fine. BUT there are some places they step over the line IMO:

1. Things like respec scrolls, ww/vampire, skyshards, etc that are available in game should have that mentioned in the description. [For ex: Respecs can be purchased in any major city at the relevant shrine or purchase this scroll to do it now, instantly] The help screen is no excuse because that's a last resort when you can't figure something out, not a first resort when you see the option in front of you to address something. (And the time saver aspect being what you pay for is pretty lame - like the time it takes to port to Grahtwood and walk ten steps to the shrine is worth anymore than 10 crowns is laughable). If they truly feel like the time saver aspect is worth it, then giving players the option on the item when they buy it won't hurt their sales at all.

2. Crates: Crown crates, or any kind of gambling crate from any game should just not exist. We can argue zos isn't as bad as others, but it's just arguing about degrees of bad at that point IMO. Just let players buy what they want to buy, stop selling them chances to "win" it. The only caveat I'll give them is the fact they allow gold/crown sells at least gives players a way to "earn them in game" and the new endeavor system allows that as well. But as a hit against them, I have to say that they have consistently made crates worse and scummier over time. Adding more 'junk' in the mix to eat up the chances of getting a decent item - or adding items to a tier where it feels like they don't belong just to eat up the odds of getting good items. The amount of items that have been added to the tiers with the crate mounts or the tier right under that is horrendous and many of those items should be of a lower tier. Adding motifs to the crates and calling them style pages, slowly pushing skins and personalities to be available primarily there. Having crown gem only purchases.

3. Pay to Win: "Win" is a relative term, but for me its anything that gives you an edge in the game. When they started selling pets that added inventory space, they started dipping a toe over that P2W line IMO. I know others disagree, but at that point it becomes an argument as to what "win" means to you and you could even go the other direction and say that how your character looks is a win for you (which is VERY important to most players in any game from what I've seen) - so even selling cosmetics gives players with money options far beyond what those without have. BUT, I'm trying to be reasonable and simply look at statistical advantages and inventory management is a very real thing in this game and those pets stepped onto that slippery slope. Again though, I think the fact they allow gold/gifting of items works as a rope that keeps them from sliding down that slope, but I do think they crossed the line.

and 4. Pricing. It's a bit ridiculous. I think about half the stuff is horribly priced and when it isn't, you'll notice it inches it's way up in price (music boxes) or get slowly incorporated into crown crates. I'm not even of the mind that stuff should be dirt cheap, but sometimes they get a bit carried away. Houses are way too expensive IMO for what they offer. Most are just copy pasted assets from elsewhere in the game and even when pretty aren't that interesting for the price when it comes down to it. They are often huge to justify the price I assume, but build space is too limited to make use of that size. Either way, they shouldn't cost as much as buying an entire game at $50+. Other items like the outfit slots (sold per character mind you) are over priced. I get the technical reason they are sold per character, but that doesn't change the fact they should be about 1/3 or 1/4 the price they are.

In the end, it could be worse and I think the fact they allow crown gifting for gold really helps to make some of the crappier parts of their cash shop easier to swallow. As for outrage - like it matters. Gamers have a short memory and for those that hold grudges, there are even less options unless you decide to not play games entirely. The community around games like FO76, Cyberpunk, No Man's Sky exploded with horrible launches, developers essentially screwed customers, but over the next year or so they worked to fix their games and suddenly communities rallied around them. Never mind the fact that the updates after launch for a game are meant to - yes, fix some bugs; but mainly to expand and build upon the game with new stuff. They were not meant to slowly try to give you what you paid for a year after the fact. Players that ran from ESO because of failing pvp servers and other problems they were bitter over and went to new games like New World only to discover their pvp lagged just as bad, was even more out of balance and grindier and many have stayed, not because they like NW better, but just because they hate it a little bit less (and because it's something different, even if it's just as broken). Most of those that I've talked to say the same thing, what else is there to play? There are only so many MMOs and you are hamstrung even more by what the group as a whole (if you are playing your MMOs with friends) wants to play. In the end, our outrage won't mean much if we don't speak with our wallets.

PizzaCat82

As someone who buys crowns with gold and only plays for crown items, raising crown prices and putting everything behind horrible RNG lootboxes means the only game left is crappy PVP and boring PVE.

It's pretty much making the game worse for people that want cosmetics because we have to grind gold faster and spend less time playing pretty much every other part of the game.

AuraStorm43

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

AuraStorm43 wrote: »

I think you underestimate just how much of this game is behind a paywall, nearly half the dungeons in this game are paywalled

And if you don't buy the new WoW expansion, you're locked out of a pile of dungeons and raids. (as well as PvP, since they have level cap increases, so you get left behind as the rest of the PvPers advance to a higher level bracket & power level)

Ditto with every other MMO that has expansions/zone DLC/etc.

And any other RPG that has expansions that introduce new areas & dungeons. (wow, all of Far Harbor & Nuka World were paywalled in Fallout 4! Plus new weapons & armor! /shocked)


Why am I supposed to be upset, here? I've been buying game expansions/etc since at least the 90's.

I’m not talking about those games i’m talking about ESO, the game has 20 dungeons, 2 character classes, multiple skill lines, and half the raids locked behind a paywall, multiple paywalls in some cases

You can “do well” sure but you’ll be at a disadvantage compared to people who pay the sub and buy the chapter that is pay to win

Not to mention the time saver micros like shards and skill lines, lootboxes, and outdated stuff like werewolf/vampire bites and respec scrolls that take advantage of new players

The crown store needs a revamp and more DLC needs to be moved from behind a paywall

Elvenheart

I’m a long time player with lots of alts. But I was a new player once like everyone else, and I’ve played LOTS of other games with their own version of a Crown Store.

I’ve never felt preyed upon by any of these companies, or made to feel that I just had to buy something I didn’t want to buy in order to be able to play the game. Anything I have bought has been because I chose to buy it, not because I was tricked or manipulated into buying it only to learn I could have gotten it some other way. And taking skyshards, for example, before someone can pay for the convenience of unlocking a zone’s skyshards don’t they have to have a character on their account that has already unlocked them the normal way? They are not being tricked into thinking that the only way to get skyshards is to buy them with real money. Me, I get skyshards for all my characters the old fashioned way, but if people want to buy them, who am I to judge that and how much that convenience should cost? For ME, the convenience is not worth it, but for others with different amounts of playtime it may very well be.

And bankers, and merchants, and any other convenience items? They may be nice to have depending on the way one likes to play the game, but no one has to have them. It’s up to the individual player to decide if they are worth the cost to them. People expressing “outrage” at the cost of something are only expressing their own personal feelings, and trying to influence others to agree with them. And maybe get those clicks 😉

I agree that most games could do a better job of teaching players about these things, but at the same time too much information right at the beginning can be overwhelming. I find in MMOs that a lot of times I learn the most important things from other more experienced players. And ESO is MUCH better than most in that regard for a couple of reasons that come to mind - first, because of the caliber of players that I have encountered who genuinely like helping new players, and also because we can be in multiple guilds at once. If I ask something in guild chat chances are someone in one of my guilds is able to help me. Most games only let us join one guild.

I also agree with the people who say they wish ZOS would do away with the gems concept and just sell the items for crowns. But I don’t feel like anyone at ZOS or anywhere else has ever reached into my pocket and took my money against my will, like some people have suggested. Anything I have ever bought I have done so of my own free will. Reading through this thread I get the idea that some people are feeling like others are being tricked into buying things, but I don’t recall anyone actually saying, “I bought a respec scroll because I thought that’s the only way I could respec my character,” only people implying that it MIGHT happen to people because of the way ZOS sells them. If this did happen to someone and you mentioned it somewhere in this post, I apologize for not recalling it.

Sorry for my long rambling post. I’m having to work Christmas Eve so I have nothing better to do in my spare time than read through forum posts. I’d rather be home playing the game!

In my opinion it all boils down to if ZOS wants to have a Crown Store, that’s fine. If some people want to buy something from the Crown Store, that’s fine. If some people think the items in the Crown Store cost too much, that’s fine too. They don’t have to buy them. Each to their OWN opinion, but don’t try to rile up the masses over it. It’s nowhere near enough in importance to inspire “outrage” in anyone.

Happy Holidays!

Jeremy

Other games are far worse.

SWTOR for example doesn't even let you level to max or wear high level gear without paying money.

FF14 you can't play at all.

Once you buy the game (which is fairly cheap) you get pretty much full access, especially if you have previously purchased all the expansions.

Yeah, the convenience and cosmetic items in the Crown Store are over-priced. No doubt about it. But it really doesn't bother me because none of that stuff is even remotely necessary to enjoy the game.

woe

zzzzzz

You don't need to buy anything. You can turn in-game gold into crowns and that doesn't take farming every single day for years, just paying attention and understanding the game. This is dumb.

AuraStorm43

Jeremy wrote: »

Other games are far worse.

SWTOR for example doesn't even let you level to max or wear high level gear without paying money.

FF14 you can't play at all.

Once you buy the game (which is fairly cheap) you get pretty much full access, especially if you have previously purchased all the expansions.

Yeah, the convenience and cosmetic items in the Crown Store are over-priced. No doubt about it. But it really doesn't bother me because none of that stuff is even remotely necessary to enjoy the game.

Those games doing something bad doesn’t make ESO good

deflorate wrote: »

zzzzzz

You don't need to buy anything. You can turn in-game gold into crowns and that doesn't take farming every single day for years, just paying attention and understanding the game. This is dumb.

“Don’t like it don’t buy it” isn’t an argument, Rich said the same thing and its still stupid, it doesn’t change that new players are being exploited

FlopsyPrince

Sylvermynx wrote: »

I didn't know until your post Firstmep that there WAS outrage by "content creators" - because I have zero interest in and therefore no use for "them".

I bought crates off and on the first year I played, got a LOT of nice stuff on both accounts, and since then I've pretty much never bought any of them again. Once in a while there will be a crate season I really love so I'll buy one or two, but that's it.

My SOE are going bye-bye on this season....

I have bought a few sets of crates lately and got NOTHING of use out of 2-3 sets.

I didn't expect multiple radiant items, but even a single mount didn't drop. Just a couple of useless skins and a bunch of stuff I sold back. This is a very poor drop rate. You may have won the lottery in this case (if true), but that doesn't mean the lottery is good to play.

====

Some comments on the OP:

- Data storage is cheap these days. That is why AI and machine learning are "hot" again today after already being "the next big thing" 40 years ago. The architecture of ESO may be poor enough it is a challenge, but storing more data and making it be truly "per account" as the splash screens claim is not as hard as some believe.

The problem is that they have strong incentives to make people buy things multiple times when switching platforms. That is a bad incentive and I would bet it plays a more serious role than any true level of development effort to maintain.

- Rich is the public face of ESO. He may or may not control some things, but the leadership at ZOS should at least be connecting him with solid reasoning. He WILL be held accountable, especially since no one else is available.

This is probably the reason ZOS says so little publicly, but that has another flaw of alienating your users over time, something that is not good for any company.

FlopsyPrince

mickeyx wrote: »

I saw that stream and the way he was dropping F bombs and was so rude shocked me. Not to mention how he banned the content creator for simply asking a question? A lot of players were taken aback by his behavior and i know few who decided to stop playing the game over this.

[snip]

To hear that a major PR person for an online game is doing this may not be surprising, but is not unusual today. We have become a very crass society in many ways.

Rich would have brought many critical comments on himself if this is an accurate report. (I did not watch the stream and I am quite unlikely to do so now.)

Some of this may be my bias and I am not always perfectly clean with my language in daily life, but doing a video where you have to "curse like a sailor" is not a smart thing for almost any company.

[snip]
[edited for bashing]

IronWooshu

I personally think name change tokens are ridiculous overpriced as well as armory slots.

Taggund

In general, I tend to think of the crown items in real dollar cost, and I think crown items should cost 10% of what they actually do. Outfit slots being per character is what really turned me off on the crown store, and seeing that armory slots are the same just indicated to me there are actually people out there that will spend this money.

FlopsyPrince

IronWooshu wrote: »

I personally think name change tokens are ridiculous overpriced as well as armory slots.

Or the cost of getting a shave or a haircut!

AuraStorm43

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

mickeyx wrote: »

I saw that stream and the way he was dropping F bombs and was so rude shocked me. Not to mention how he banned the content creator for simply asking a question? A lot of players were taken aback by his behavior and i know few who decided to stop playing the game over this.

[snip]

To hear that a major PR person for an online game is doing this may not be surprising, but is not unusual today. We have become a very crass society in many ways.

Rich would have brought many critical comments on himself if this is an accurate report. (I did not watch the stream and I am quite unlikely to do so now.)

Some of this may be my bias and I am not always perfectly clean with my language in daily life, but doing a video where you have to "curse like a sailor" is not a smart thing for almost any company.

[snip]

Its funny cuz ESO itself has a profanity filter on by default and here, but nah its fine if Rich acts like that

[edited to remove quote]

ADarklore

Here is the one thing I've been seeing with 'streamers' and 'Youtubers' lately... most of them are using 'anger' and 'angst' to generate publicity for themselves. All of this seems to have come as a result of Asmongold and his angry streaming about WOW and Blizzard. Since then, I've noticed an uptick in 'angry' Youtube videos directed at virtually every game on the market- it seems ANGRY generates buzz and attention. If there is something to be 'angry' about, they will rant about it for attention- some deserved, most not.

I've been playing ESO for YEARS, I have not noticed any uptick in their prices nor their practices becoming 'predatory'. Gamers are more than able to- if they choose- to research the game online and get information instead of expecting the game to hold their hands. This is the same for almost every game I've played... usually there is very little 'help' other than brief tutorials and then you're thrown into the game to sink or swim. If you don't want to sink, or spend hours treading water, then you simply GOOGLE your questions and undoubtedly you'll find answers somewhere within.

ZOS is first and foremost a BUSINESS... they aren't a charity. It's their job to make money for the company and investors, not to give things away for free; especially an MMO with ongoing debts that need to be paid. A single player game that isn't continuously adding content or expected to add content beyond a certain point, that's different... yet even single player games are now starting to push online stores for additional revenue.

As for things being 'too expensive' in the CROWN store... that's what Crown discount sales are for!!! You miss it, that's your problem, not theirs. Even though I'm not currently playing ESO as I've taken a break, I still bought two 21000 Crown packs this week because I know I'll be back at some point. So if people want CHEAPER Crown items, then buy Crowns on sale.

Iron_Warrior

First of all it's not only about content creators, it's more than that so don't downplay it. Zos owns this game and they have the right to do anything that they want with their cash shop. But i also payed for this game and have the right to point out their crap and say their cash shop is "predatory", "overpriced" and the gambling boxes are getting worse and worse. I also think as long as we have people that make all kind of excuses for big gaming companies and take everything that they served with an happy smile, this industry will only go downhill.

Casul

Performance is down, prices are up.

AuraStorm43

ADarklore wrote: »

Here is the one thing I've been seeing with 'streamers' and 'Youtubers' lately... most of them are using 'anger' and 'angst' to generate publicity for themselves. All of this seems to have come as a result of Asmongold and his angry streaming about WOW and Blizzard. Since then, I've noticed an uptick in 'angry' Youtube videos directed at virtually every game on the market- it seems ANGRY generates buzz and attention. If there is something to be 'angry' about, they will rant about it for attention- some deserved, most not.

I've been playing ESO for YEARS, I have not noticed any uptick in their prices nor their practices becoming 'predatory'. Gamers are more than able to- if they choose- to research the game online and get information instead of expecting the game to hold their hands. This is the same for almost every game I've played... usually there is very little 'help' other than brief tutorials and then you're thrown into the game to sink or swim. If you don't want to sink, or spend hours treading water, then you simply GOOGLE your questions and undoubtedly you'll find answers somewhere within.

ZOS is first and foremost a BUSINESS... they aren't a charity. It's their job to make money for the company and investors, not to give things away for free; especially an MMO with ongoing debts that need to be paid. A single player game that isn't continuously adding content or expected to add content beyond a certain point, that's different... yet even single player games are now starting to push online stores for additional revenue.

As for things being 'too expensive' in the CROWN store... that's what Crown discount sales are for!!! You miss it, that's your problem, not theirs. Even though I'm not currently playing ESO as I've taken a break, I still bought two 21000 Crown packs this week because I know I'll be back at some point. So if people want CHEAPER Crown items, then buy Crowns on sale.

“People are talking about this just to get clout” or maybe people want the game to be better

It started because they advertised a sale for downright useless items that take advantage of new players

RicAlmighty

AuraStorm43 wrote: »

I think you underestimate just how much of this game is behind a paywall, nearly half the dungeons in this game are paywalled

I will never understand this line of thinking. Are you expecting all new content for free after whatever time you entered the game? Developing content costs money, period. Either you find value in what is being provided or you do not and you make your purchasing decision accordingly. But implying that new content should arrive at little to no cost is simply not living in reality.

etchedpixels

AuraStorm43 wrote: »

I’m not talking about those games i’m talking about ESO, the game has 20 dungeons, 2 character classes, multiple skill lines, and half the raids locked behind a paywall, multiple paywalls in some cases

As I said before by this definition the whole game is behind a paywall because it's not free to download!

If you buy the base game you can complete the base game just fine without loot boxes and without all the other garbage that afflicts many other modern (particularly phone and 'esport') games. You can complete all the story lines and all the things you bought access too. You don't get half way through and discover that you can't get past level 20 without buying an upgrade, or that you can't complete a quest boss without loot box gear.

You can “do well” sure but you’ll be at a disadvantage compared to people who pay the sub and buy the chapter that is pay to win

There is probably only one spot where it's of any material relevance - that's PvP where not having some of the additional content means you lack access to some of the mythic items. In the PvE space you can happily complete what you get without being mugged by surprise along the way.

Not to mention the time saver micros like shards and skill lines, lootboxes, and outdated stuff like werewolf/vampire bites and respec scrolls that take advantage of new players

They've made the recent ones actually warn you that they can be obtained from other places. They badly need to update the existing ones, on that I agree.

Kiralyn2000

You know what surprised me as being ridiculously overpriced? I tried Five Guys the other day, and a burger & fries was $16.
(and the fries were very greasy. They soaked through the take-out bag and left a stain on my car seat )

AuraStorm43

RicAlmighty wrote: »

AuraStorm43 wrote: »

I think you underestimate just how much of this game is behind a paywall, nearly half the dungeons in this game are paywalled

I will never understand this line of thinking. Are you expecting all new content for free after whatever time you entered the game? Developing content costs money, period. Either you find value in what is being provided or you do not and you make your purchasing decision accordingly. But implying that new content should arrive at little to no cost is simply not living in reality.

I never said that i wanted all new content to be free, dunno where you got that idea but its a nice strawman i guess, I’m well aware these things cost money but with how overmonitized this game is, they should put some older dlc ahead of the pay wall

etchedpixels wrote: »

AuraStorm43 wrote: »

I’m not talking about those games i’m talking about ESO, the game has 20 dungeons, 2 character classes, multiple skill lines, and half the raids locked behind a paywall, multiple paywalls in some cases

As I said before by this definition the whole game is behind a paywall because it's not free to download!

If you buy the base game you can complete the base game just fine without loot boxes and without all the other garbage that afflicts many other modern (particularly phone and 'esport') games. You can complete all the story lines and all the things you bought access too. You don't get half way through and discover that you can't get past level 20 without buying an upgrade, or that you can't complete a quest boss without loot box gear.

You can “do well” sure but you’ll be at a disadvantage compared to people who pay the sub and buy the chapter that is pay to win

There is probably only one spot where it's of any material relevance - that's PvP where not having some of the additional content means you lack access to some of the mythic items. In the PvE space you can happily complete what you get without being mugged by surprise along the way.

Not to mention the time saver micros like shards and skill lines, lootboxes, and outdated stuff like werewolf/vampire bites and respec scrolls that take advantage of new players

They've made the recent ones actually warn you that they can be obtained from other places. They badly need to update the existing ones, on that I agree.

Its not just PVP on the PVE front you are put at a significant disadvantage by not paying, it really adds up between mythics, lack of jewelry crafting, and lack of newer better gear

You can’t even get maelstrom weapons without orsinium, and every PVE build runs them

FlopsyPrince

ADarklore wrote: »

Here is the one thing I've been seeing with 'streamers' and 'Youtubers' lately... most of them are using 'anger' and 'angst' to generate publicity for themselves. All of this seems to have come as a result of Asmongold and his angry streaming about WOW and Blizzard. Since then, I've noticed an uptick in 'angry' Youtube videos directed at virtually every game on the market- it seems ANGRY generates buzz and attention. If there is something to be 'angry' about, they will rant about it for attention- some deserved, most not.

I've been playing ESO for YEARS, I have not noticed any uptick in their prices nor their practices becoming 'predatory'. Gamers are more than able to- if they choose- to research the game online and get information instead of expecting the game to hold their hands. This is the same for almost every game I've played... usually there is very little 'help' other than brief tutorials and then you're thrown into the game to sink or swim. If you don't want to sink, or spend hours treading water, then you simply GOOGLE your questions and undoubtedly you'll find answers somewhere within.

ZOS is first and foremost a BUSINESS... they aren't a charity. It's their job to make money for the company and investors, not to give things away for free; especially an MMO with ongoing debts that need to be paid. A single player game that isn't continuously adding content or expected to add content beyond a certain point, that's different... yet even single player games are now starting to push online stores for additional revenue.

As for things being 'too expensive' in the CROWN store... that's what Crown discount sales are for!!! You miss it, that's your problem, not theirs. Even though I'm not currently playing ESO as I've taken a break, I still bought two 21000 Crown packs this week because I know I'll be back at some point. So if people want CHEAPER Crown items, then buy Crowns on sale.

Crown sales don't make things that much cheaper. Not a good reason, unless you are being sarcastic.

YouTubers may get more viewers with angst, but the game companies usually help bring that on themselves. Are you really arguing Blizzard wasn't very foolish?

ZOS should pay attention to all that. I know the idea was prevalent that "WoW will never die" when I quit at the end of Mists. They seem to finally be shooting themselves in the foot for a variety of reasons, many of which hit ESO and other MMOs.

No one is immune from being penalized by ignoring their customers!

luen79rwb17_ESO

I really didn't care for ZOS's twitter post about respec scrolls. Players took care of that very fast. What really bothered me was Rich Lambert's cursing towards players who have a different opinion than him. It doesn't even matter who's right, they're customers and random people. He on the contrary is very public, the face and high ranking leader of a company, stating opinions and even sharing in-company comments with cursing words towards people.

For a person in that job and profile, if you have an issue that bothers you that much, you should have the tools to address it properly which was not in that case, in my opinion. ZOS and Bethesda should really work on not letting their developers talk about work on personal streams.

FlopsyPrince

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

You know what surprised me as being ridiculously overpriced? I tried Five Guys the other day, and a burger & fries was $16.
(and the fries were very greasy. They soaked through the take-out bag and left a stain on my car seat )

So? What does that have to do with overpriced Crown Store items? Just about all food is getting expensive now. I am old enough to remember when you could get a full meal at McDonalds for under a dollar (when I was growing up), but that is definitely not the case now.

Though you are getting food (quality may vary) for that and you can't mop the floors for it instead. So the comparison is not really accurate.

FlopsyPrince

luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »

I really didn't care for ZOS's twitter post about respec scrolls. Players took care of that very fast. What really bothered me was Rich Lambert's cursing towards players who have a different opinion than him. It doesn't even matter who's right, they're customers and random people. He on the contrary is very public, the face and high ranking leader of a company, stating opinions and even sharing in-company comments with cursing words towards people.

For a person in that job and profile, if you have an issue that bothers you that much, you should have the tools to address it properly which was not in that case, in my opinion. ZOS and Bethesda should really work on not letting their developers talk about work on personal streams.

I am seeing that many people in many roles are completely intolerant of any disagreement today. That is too bad, since people can disagree without having to throw mud around.

Jaxious79

"Outrage" "youtube" come on. They are just looking for clicks there is nothing wrong with the cash shop they are not out to get you or take advantage of you.

AuraStorm43

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »

I really didn't care for ZOS's twitter post about respec scrolls. Players took care of that very fast. What really bothered me was Rich Lambert's cursing towards players who have a different opinion than him. It doesn't even matter who's right, they're customers and random people. He on the contrary is very public, the face and high ranking leader of a company, stating opinions and even sharing in-company comments with cursing words towards people.

For a person in that job and profile, if you have an issue that bothers you that much, you should have the tools to address it properly which was not in that case, in my opinion. ZOS and Bethesda should really work on not letting their developers talk about work on personal streams.

I am seeing that many people in many roles are completely intolerant of any disagreement today. That is too bad, since people can disagree without having to throw mud around.

And a lotta that mud flinging by Rich is at perfectly valid questions