Upcoming Changes to Battleground Queues

M0ntie

Everyone I know preferred getting an even distribution of ALL the BG types. I like DM the least but would put up with the occasional one in what was previously the random BG queue.
ZOS need to fix this so that people queueing for a RANDOM BG get queued with other people requesting a RANDOM BG so that an even number of the differnt types of BGs is experienced. Currently people queueing for random get DM all the time.
Until then, I won't be doing any BGs.

Magio_

"Random" was always a misnomer. At least never accurate to the definition of the word until the patch before the current one. Same as how the Random Dungeon Finder is not truly Random but fills partially filled groups.

What ZOS has been willing to share is: "If we separated Objective Modes into their own queue, it would never pop". Basically, not enough people would queue for it to have healthy queue times at different times of the day, so you don't have it.

M0ntie

It was fine before, just put it back how it was

Taggund

Magio_ wrote: »

What ZOS has been willing to share is: "If we separated Objective Modes into their own queue, it would never pop". Basically, not enough people would queue for it to have healthy queue times at different times of the day, so you don't have it.

Maybe it is time for another test, and put a random queue that works as before the deathmatch only test as the default, and deathmatch only below it. It can then be seen if random is truly not popular.

Overall, the DM only "test" (that they indicated resulted in unhealthy BG population) was a response to New World, but in trying to placate one group of players they have instead ended up causing others to no longer like the effectively DM only BG approach (and this includes those that prefer no deathmatch, and those that like deathmatch and objectives and the variety in matches). The question for ZOS is which is the bigger group of players, and if they really want to try something that keeps all players that want to play BGs engaged in BGs and the game as a whole.

I would really be happy if they would at least just respond on the forums regarding this change, like they did with the original post and the follow-up on the queue change we have now.

Magio_

M0ntie wrote: »

It was fine before, just put it back how it was

When? We've had 4 different queue systems in the last ~2.5 years.

Aldoss

Taggund wrote: »

Maybe it is time for another test, and put a random queue that works as before the deathmatch only test as the default, and deathmatch only below it. It can then be seen if random is truly not popular.

This "test" already happened back when the queue was solo only. Random was the default, but players were allowed to choose to queue for either solo relic, solo land grab, or solo deathmatch.

Deathmatch was more popular by far.

New World release was either the worst time or the best time to perform the DM only test as most people who opted to give NW a shot were PvPers who were fed up with being neglected by ZOS for years and years. A shiny new game was presented by a big shot studio with enormous pockets and a pseudo promise that their demographic would be tailored to.

In addition to that, the time to try a new game was perfect because despite the PvP community loving the DM-only test, DC was so broken that it killed all enjoyment and people who would have queued, stopped. My wife and I went from doing 3-5 bgs a night to playing Valheim exclusively for the final two weeks of the test because playing against DC was the most unenjoyable experience.

The hype for NW was unreal. The release was beyond anyone's expectations. Unfortunately for them, their game just isn't that great (yet?) and numerous people who left to give NW a shot are back now and LOVING the DM only format.

I'm not saying you shouldn't get what you want, but the decision is on ZOS as whether or not it's a good idea for the health of their game to sacrifice fast queues in favor of letting people only queue for objectives and sit in queue for 20 min.

Magio_

Aldoss wrote: »

This "test" already happened back when the queue was solo only. Random was the default, but players were allowed to choose to queue for either solo relic, solo land grab, or solo deathmatch.

Deathmatch was more popular by far.

Also when it was Group Only.

Aldoss wrote: »

I'm not saying you shouldn't get what you want, but the decision is on ZOS as whether or not it's a good idea for the health of their game to sacrifice fast queues in favor of letting people only queue for objectives and sit in queue for 20 min.

Rich Lambert went as far as to say hours long queues for Random Objectives Only queue.

Beardimus

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks so much for your participation, patience and feedback while we experimented with only having the Deathmatch game mode available. It was important for us to run this for a few weeks to ensure we had an accurate representation of overall involvement and interest in Battlegrounds during this time.

First, it’s valuable to note the general feedback on this test was quite polarizing. While there were certainly a lot of players that liked only having Deathmatch available, there were just as many that didn’t enjoy it. A frequent complaint we saw, though, was the disappointment that we removed something that is ultimately at the core of our game: the freedom of choice. And in the case of this test, the data appeared to back that up as well. Although we initially saw a very slight bump in participation, it quickly declined and has left Battleground populations in a fairly unhealthy state.

Starting with the launch of Update 32 (November 1 for PC/Mac/Stadia and November 16 for consoles), we’ll be giving you more choices to decide which game mode to queue into depending on if you are playing solo or with a group. These will include:

• Solo Deathmatch
• Solo Random Battleground
• Group Deathmatch
• Group Random Battleground

One thing to keep in mind is the random queue will include all game modes (Flag Games, Land Grabs, and Deathmatch) so the likelihood of getting Deathmatch is going to be higher for those queueing into that game mode, specifically.

We’ll continue to monitor the sentiment and participation rates with Battlegrounds once this rolls out next month, and we’ll let you know if we plan for any additional changes. Thanks again for posting all your thoughts during this time!

Glad this was added back @zos_ginabruno having objectives back for group queues has added a real buzz to my guild and given folks a recent to play again.

Araneae6537

Don’t get excited yet, @Beardimus as the “random queue” pops DMs something like 99% of the time because the queues are not separate.

I am glad that there are now DM-only queues at that does seem to be the most popular mode. I do wish there was at least one separate queue for actually random battlegrounds though.

Beardimus

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Don’t get excited yet, @Beardimus as the “random queue” pops DMs something like 99% of the time because the queues are not separate.

I am glad that there are now DM-only queues at that does seem to be the most popular mode. I do wish there was at least one separate queue for actually random battlegrounds though.

Thanks @Araneae6537 on Xbox EU at least it feels around 60% the last week or so mid week, but primetime the DM rate Def goes up

Which I guess given the polarising opinion on this isn't a bad medium to Gina's point

Araneae6537

Beardimus wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Don’t get excited yet, @Beardimus as the “random queue” pops DMs something like 99% of the time because the queues are not separate.

I am glad that there are now DM-only queues at that does seem to be the most popular mode. I do wish there was at least one separate queue for actually random battlegrounds though.

Thanks @Araneae6537 on Xbox EU at least it feels around 60% the last week or so mid week, but primetime the DM rate Def goes up

Which I guess given the polarising opinion on this isn't a bad medium to Gina's point

You’re the first I’ve heard who got that much variety but I don’t recall the platform or time of those who posted ratios and also it may have changed over time — it would be interested to know! I’m glad that you’ve had a better time of it!

Maybe the queues could be something like:
Random (Solo)
Deathmatch (Solo)
Capture Games (Solo)
Deathmatch (Group)

1) Assuming there’s a good number queuing for both solo and group deathmatch.
2) By capture games, I mean what is often called “objectives” but since deathmatch of course also has an objective, I though capture made sense for the other games. Anyway, this would be solely those other game modes and probably could only support one queue.
3) Here random would, like queuing for a random dungeon, fill whichever queue needed more to have a game.

Beardimus

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Don’t get excited yet, @Beardimus as the “random queue” pops DMs something like 99% of the time because the queues are not separate.

I am glad that there are now DM-only queues at that does seem to be the most popular mode. I do wish there was at least one separate queue for actually random battlegrounds though.

Thanks @Araneae6537 on Xbox EU at least it feels around 60% the last week or so mid week, but primetime the DM rate Def goes up

Which I guess given the polarising opinion on this isn't a bad medium to Gina's point

You’re the first I’ve heard who got that much variety but I don’t recall the platform or time of those who posted ratios and also it may have changed over time — it would be interested to know! I’m glad that you’ve had a better time of it!

Maybe the queues could be something like:
Random (Solo)
Deathmatch (Solo)
Capture Games (Solo)
Deathmatch (Group)

1) Assuming there’s a good number queuing for both solo and group deathmatch.
2) By capture games, I mean what is often called “objectives” but since deathmatch of course also has an objective, I though capture made sense for the other games. Anyway, this would be solely those other game modes and probably could only support one queue.
3) Here random would, like queuing for a random dungeon, fill whichever queue needed more to have a game.

I dunno about that.

Objective games are good to be in a team, DM is my least fave solo and actually the same in a pre-made.

I guess it's down to population right, if all queuing are in random then there is variety. If alot are purely queing for DM solo then it steers the queue, I assume that's what's happening in the more prime time windows

I'm torn on what's worse, as if that's the case it infers pop is low when getting DMs and then would we be sat in objective queues waiting for alot longer

Anyway, main thing is we getting some pre-made action! I wished they would add private matches and some form of tournament mode then very happy

nightstrike

Beardimus wrote: »

I guess it's down to population right, if all queuing are in random then there is variety. If alot are purely queing for DM solo then it steers the queue, I assume that's what's happening in the more prime time windows

Except that it doesn't have to be a lot. 1/12 is all it takes to steer the queue.

In every BG I'm in, I ask in group chat what people queued for. I have yet to have someone say "DM".

dogmycats

Why is it 99% of Deathmatch in Random Battleground?
It's totally not Random. No chance to get achievement in other mode.
And the matching is not fair for solo players against group players, hope you can do better in matching mechanism.

_adhyffbjjjf12

to quote them

"First, it’s valuable to note the general feedback on this test was quite polarizing. While there were certainly a lot of players that liked only having Deathmatch available, there were just as many that didn’t enjoy it. A frequent complaint we saw, though, was the disappointment that we removed something that is ultimately at the core of our game: the freedom of choice. And in the case of this test, the data appeared to back that up as well. Although we initially saw a very slight bump in participation, it quickly declined and has left Battleground populations in a fairly unhealthy state."

Should not have resulted in a change that made it a 90%+ chance to get DM in RANDOM. They either screwed up their code again and don't have the integrity to notify their customer base, or they arrogantly removed content customers paid for because actually "ultimately at the core of our game: the freedom of choice" was a disingenuous soundbite.

Casul

I pushed the leaderboard a few weeks ago and got to top 15, proabably 150 BG since the patch. No objective.

I think I am done, between the lack of performance and predatory monitization I have started looking elsewhere for MMOs.

I think I will stay to at least get my event house built since I had already put a lot of time into that, but for actual content I am moving on. Hopefully they can pull me back at some point.

Beardimus

nightstrike wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

I guess it's down to population right, if all queuing are in random then there is variety. If alot are purely queing for DM solo then it steers the queue, I assume that's what's happening in the more prime time windows

Except that it doesn't have to be a lot. 1/12 is all it takes to steer the queue.

In every BG I'm in, I ask in group chat what people queued for. I have yet to have someone say "DM".

Do we know that for sure?

As honnestly on the quieter days I'm getting a fair few objective games. But weekend a Def switch to more DMs and have noticed that the last two days (holidays)

At this point a DM and a noDM queue might be the only way. I really prefer objective games, would be nice to have a few DM sprinkled in but I'd prefer non to all

Magio_

Beardimus wrote: »

nightstrike wrote: »

Except that it doesn't have to be a lot. 1/12 is all it takes to steer the queue.

Do we know that for sure?

No, they don't at all.

This thread really needs a new GreenText post. The same things have been said over and over in thread after thread on the same exact topic.

If you find all the Rich Lambert clips through the countless BG Queue threads, these are basically the points he made:
• The queue system working as intended.
• ZOS knew it was going to be DM for the vast majority of matches.
• That's seen as ok by ZOS because the vast majority of players are queueing for BGs are using the DM-only queues. ZOS can see this data, we can't.
• The 1 DM queue player pulling 11 Random queuers into a DM could technically happen, but it's a myth because players using Random queue are such a minority, which brings us to the next point.
• ZOS has said if they made an objective only queue it there would be times where it would take hours, if ever, for a match to pop. Long queues are seen as bad business and are a big no-no for ZOS.

Some of you here would be ok with long queues if it guaranteed an Objective Mode match, but that would make you a hardcore Objective Mode player. ZOS never caters to "hardcore" players. Specially a minority, which Objective Modes only players are a minority within a minority of BG players.

nightstrike

Magio_ wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

nightstrike wrote: »

Except that it doesn't have to be a lot. 1/12 is all it takes to steer the queue.

Do we know that for sure?

No, they don't at all.

I'm pretty sure that what I said is correct. 1 person in DM will pull 11 people from Random into a DM game. Therefore, "No, they don't at all" seems to be a strange thing to say. You may think that there aren't any games that are started that way, but that doesn't change my statement as written.

Further, I continually ask in group chat who queued for what. I'm still waiting for one single person to say "DM".

Magio_

nightstrike wrote: »

Magio_ wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

nightstrike wrote: »

Except that it doesn't have to be a lot. 1/12 is all it takes to steer the queue.

Do we know that for sure?

No, they don't at all.

I'm pretty sure that what I said is correct. 1 person in DM will pull 11 people from Random into a DM game. Therefore, "No, they don't at all" seems to be a strange thing to say. You may think that there aren't any games that are started that way, but that doesn't change my statement as written.

Further, I continually ask in group chat who queued for what. I'm still waiting for one single person to say "DM".

Good job at not reading past the first line.

Hmm, I wonder whose info I should trust? Some random on the forums with anecdata that supports their point or the Creative Director on video saying the vast majority of people are using the DM-only options when queueing for BGs?

Hard call.

Taggund

Based on the number of people complaining (even in guild chat, and not just the forum) about the queues I have a hard time believing that people are intentionally (i.e., not just because it is the default option) queuing for deathmatch, or that there is not a good number of players that would like them back.

In any event, no player response is changing any minds in any of the multitude of threads on the issue. We need a ZOS statement on whether this is the way it is going to be from here on out, or there is a chance we may get objective BGs back. My guess is they just don't know what to do, or just really don't care because it is a low priority. (The original goal was to counter New World release, and they may not see that as a concern anymore, so will just leave what they have.)

Hotdog_23

Sine the change I have yet to get anything but DM. Queue for all 4 game modes to get the quick match and they are always Deathmatch, Just my experience.

Stay safe and Happy Holidays

RedTalon

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Sine the change I have yet to get anything but DM. Queue for all 4 game modes to get the quick match and they are always Deathmatch, Just my experience.

Stay safe and Happy Holidays

Yeah if you que for all four you will always get death matches

Casul

I'm calling it, BG objective modes are going to be pulled in 2022. Not big enough to support the minority of players = unnecessary investment.

Just another nail in the PvP coffin.

Aurahna

My concern is that I would like to play something other than Death match. I do hope this changes or gives the option to play something else soon. I queued approximately 40+ times yesterday. I got 1 Domination and the other 40+ times were deathmatch when choosing Solo Random Battleground or Group Random Battleground

Suggestion: Separate the queues Deathmatch for those that only want to play that, and then another queue for anything else other than deathmatch. I would rather take a 20 minute queue then be stuck in a deathmatch loop with basically no variation. The current system does not make me want to queue for a BG.

alexlalas

As this discussion continues and ZOS took no action for months... let me add a different suggestion:

1) Random queue AT THE TOP of the list that fills up any other queues (yes AT THE TOP - default choice if you dont select anything - makes all the difference).
2) Individual queues fore each battle mode -- however NO SPECIAL RERWARDS (extra XP) since those are not random (I dont understand currenttly why I get a bonus for a random queue when I select DM only???).

Expected Results -- 1) everyone who wants a specfic game mode can play it. You can get achivements or whatever you are looking for. 2) Rewarding only those who are there to fill up other queues ("up to anything") will drive demand to real random queue. 3) This random (for rewards / xp seekers) backfilling queue AT THE TOP as default option will attract enough people to avoid long time for all others. 4) DM-only people can continue to play DM-only as much as they like.

Araneae6537

alexlalas wrote: »

As this discussion continues and ZOS took no action for months... let me add a different suggestion:

1) Random queue AT THE TOP of the list that fills up any other queues (yes AT THE TOP - default choice if you dont select anything - makes all the difference).
2) Individual queues fore each battle mode -- however NO SPECIAL RERWARDS (extra XP) since those are not random (I dont understand currenttly why I get a bonus for a random queue when I select DM only???).

Expected Results -- 1) everyone who wants a specfic game mode can play it. You can get achivements or whatever you are looking for. 2) Rewarding only those who are there to fill up other queues ("up to anything") will drive demand to real random queue. 3) This random (for rewards / xp seekers) backfilling queue AT THE TOP as default option will attract enough people to avoid long time for all others. 4) DM-only people can continue to play DM-only as much as they like.

I think those are excellent suggestions!

Magio_

Aurahna wrote: »

I would rather take a 20 minute queue then be stuck in a deathmatch loop

Lol, 20 minutes is wishful thinking. Try "hours", which ZOS doesn't want to happen.

Araneae6537 wrote: »

I think those are excellent suggestions!

They're not new suggestions. ZOS already shot it down saying there's not enough population to support that many different queues, specially the objective mode only ones now that there is Solo and Group versions for every queue.

caindele

At least make Random Battleground the default in the drop down list. People are lazy and don't pay attention, so you will most likely get a more randomized BG choice than the way it is now....just saying

Taggund

Based on the number of people complaining about not getting objective BGs, I doubt the queue situation would be as bad as mentioned.

Again, we need a ZOS statement, not other players conjecture.