ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hello all!
When Battlegrounds first launched, we initially saw some data and feedback showing a preference specifically towards the Deathmatch game mode. With the recent removal of the option to choose a game mode when queuing for a Battleground, we’ve now seen an uptick in players choosing to treat any game mode as Deathmatch. In an effort to increase Battleground population and interest, the Solo and Group queues will only offer the Deathmatch game mode for a period of time. This change will occur during next week's maintenances, on September 20 for PC/Mac/Stadia and September 22 on consoles.
After we have a chance to digest some of the feedback and data from this experiment, we’ll decide on what the next steps should be for Battleground queue options and consider the best way to add the other Battleground game modes back in.
Thanks for your continued interest and support! We’re excited to hear what you think.
Edit [October 15]
Thanks so much for your participation, patience and feedback while we experimented with only having the Deathmatch game mode available. It was important for us to run this for a few weeks to ensure we had an accurate representation of overall involvement and interest in Battlegrounds during this time.
First, it’s valuable to note the general feedback on this test was quite polarizing. While there were certainly a lot of players that liked only having Deathmatch available, there were just as many that didn’t enjoy it. A frequent complaint we saw, though, was the disappointment that we removed something that is ultimately at the core of our game: the freedom of choice. And in the case of this test, the data appeared to back that up as well. Although we initially saw a very slight bump in participation, it quickly declined and has left Battleground populations in a fairly unhealthy state.
Starting with the launch of Update 32 (November 1 for PC/Mac/Stadia and November 16 for consoles), we’ll be giving you more choices to decide which game mode to queue into depending on if you are playing solo or with a group. These will include:One thing to keep in mind is the random queue will include all game modes (Flag Games, Land Grabs, and Deathmatch) so the likelihood of getting Deathmatch is going to be higher for those queueing into that game mode, specifically.
- Solo Deathmatch
- Solo Random Battleground
- Group Deathmatch
- Group Random Battleground
We’ll continue to monitor the sentiment and participation rates with Battlegrounds once this rolls out next month, and we’ll let you know if we plan for any additional changes. Thanks again for posting all your thoughts during this time!
trackdemon5512 wrote: »So looking back at this debacle:
- a poorly thought out test yielded results that we expected.
- Few players actually engaged in BGs when they were DM only
- Listening to the loudest voices on the forum was clearly a mistake
- A specialized choice (randoms vs DM) queue is coming
- All of this IN NO WAY has remotely addressed players playing every flag game like a DM.
That last point is more important as it was the reasoning behind the test in the first place. While the developers are now making it easy to split the population, they missed the fundamental point of incentivizing combatants to play for an objective rather than to just kill everyone in Flag Games.
Exactly correct, as many of us said, this was a bad test and will only show exactly what we have said, a super loud 20-30 people who play DMs all day and spam the forums will be the only ones playing DM only and BGs will die in a week. NAILED IT.
And you are also correct, this did NOT address anything regarding the whiners who play all modes as DM, but is actually rewarding them AGAIN. If the random Q is backfilling the DM only with out some kind of logic, random will just be a trick to try to get people to come back while forcing them to play DM only all the time. Random should NOT backfill DM only or have logic to make it only happen 1/5 or 1/3 of the time.
But wouldn't the opposite be true actually?
If it is only a small minority of players, then the DM games will fill up with those DM players, and maybe a few from the random queue, and most of the objective players will have the random queue to themselves most of the time.
The reality is though, as we literally saw before they removed the individual queues in the first place, more people prefer DM game mode than objective mode, which is why we always saw DM game mode in the random queue more often back in the day. Actual pvpers prefer it.
Yeah you 20-30 DMer/posters keep saying that but we found unequivocally from this test, that DM is only popular to 20-30 people not 100-300 who like other games or more options. As I stated 20-30 people playing DM or posting forums 20-30 times a day, is not the same as the 200-300 people who only do it 1 or 2 times a day. 20x20 does not equal 200x2.
But the fact remains if the random queue is automatically going to always backfill DM only then all queues will be DM only, unless 12 people can queue for random before even 1 person queues for DM, how often will that happen. Queues should be separate or make random NON-DM only. Or add logic to make backfilling rare.
BTW they should make the daily random reward for BGs the same as daily dungeons if they wanted to increase the pop.
MurderMostFoul wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »So looking back at this debacle:
- a poorly thought out test yielded results that we expected.
- Few players actually engaged in BGs when they were DM only
- Listening to the loudest voices on the forum was clearly a mistake
- A specialized choice (randoms vs DM) queue is coming
- All of this IN NO WAY has remotely addressed players playing every flag game like a DM.
That last point is more important as it was the reasoning behind the test in the first place. While the developers are now making it easy to split the population, they missed the fundamental point of incentivizing combatants to play for an objective rather than to just kill everyone in Flag Games.
Exactly correct, as many of us said, this was a bad test and will only show exactly what we have said, a super loud 20-30 people who play DMs all day and spam the forums will be the only ones playing DM only and BGs will die in a week. NAILED IT.
And you are also correct, this did NOT address anything regarding the whiners who play all modes as DM, but is actually rewarding them AGAIN. If the random Q is backfilling the DM only with out some kind of logic, random will just be a trick to try to get people to come back while forcing them to play DM only all the time. Random should NOT backfill DM only or have logic to make it only happen 1/5 or 1/3 of the time.
But wouldn't the opposite be true actually?
If it is only a small minority of players, then the DM games will fill up with those DM players, and maybe a few from the random queue, and most of the objective players will have the random queue to themselves most of the time.
The reality is though, as we literally saw before they removed the individual queues in the first place, more people prefer DM game mode than objective mode, which is why we always saw DM game mode in the random queue more often back in the day. Actual pvpers prefer it.
Yeah you 20-30 DMer/posters keep saying that but we found unequivocally from this test, that DM is only popular to 20-30 people not 100-300 who like other games or more options. As I stated 20-30 people playing DM or posting forums 20-30 times a day, is not the same as the 200-300 people who only do it 1 or 2 times a day. 20x20 does not equal 200x2.
But the fact remains if the random queue is automatically going to always backfill DM only then all queues will be DM only, unless 12 people can queue for random before even 1 person queues for DM, how often will that happen. Queues should be separate or make random NON-DM only. Or add logic to make backfilling rare.
BTW they should make the daily random reward for BGs the same as daily dungeons if they wanted to increase the pop.
Not certain how you've arrived at these specific, unequivocal conclusions, but anyways...
I think they should, like before, make the random mode queues the only ones with the daily win bonus attached. That'll help drive casuals/pvers (and some DMers) there and mitigate some issues that backfilling could cause.
MurderMostFoul wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »So looking back at this debacle:
- a poorly thought out test yielded results that we expected.
- Few players actually engaged in BGs when they were DM only
- Listening to the loudest voices on the forum was clearly a mistake
- A specialized choice (randoms vs DM) queue is coming
- All of this IN NO WAY has remotely addressed players playing every flag game like a DM.
That last point is more important as it was the reasoning behind the test in the first place. While the developers are now making it easy to split the population, they missed the fundamental point of incentivizing combatants to play for an objective rather than to just kill everyone in Flag Games.
Exactly correct, as many of us said, this was a bad test and will only show exactly what we have said, a super loud 20-30 people who play DMs all day and spam the forums will be the only ones playing DM only and BGs will die in a week. NAILED IT.
And you are also correct, this did NOT address anything regarding the whiners who play all modes as DM, but is actually rewarding them AGAIN. If the random Q is backfilling the DM only with out some kind of logic, random will just be a trick to try to get people to come back while forcing them to play DM only all the time. Random should NOT backfill DM only or have logic to make it only happen 1/5 or 1/3 of the time.
But wouldn't the opposite be true actually?
If it is only a small minority of players, then the DM games will fill up with those DM players, and maybe a few from the random queue, and most of the objective players will have the random queue to themselves most of the time.
The reality is though, as we literally saw before they removed the individual queues in the first place, more people prefer DM game mode than objective mode, which is why we always saw DM game mode in the random queue more often back in the day. Actual pvpers prefer it.
Yeah you 20-30 DMer/posters keep saying that but we found unequivocally from this test, that DM is only popular to 20-30 people not 100-300 who like other games or more options. As I stated 20-30 people playing DM or posting forums 20-30 times a day, is not the same as the 200-300 people who only do it 1 or 2 times a day. 20x20 does not equal 200x2.
But the fact remains if the random queue is automatically going to always backfill DM only then all queues will be DM only, unless 12 people can queue for random before even 1 person queues for DM, how often will that happen. Queues should be separate or make random NON-DM only. Or add logic to make backfilling rare.
BTW they should make the daily random reward for BGs the same as daily dungeons if they wanted to increase the pop.
Not certain how you've arrived at these specific, unequivocal conclusions, but anyways...
I think they should, like before, make the random mode queues the only ones with the daily win bonus attached. That'll help drive casuals/pvers (and some DMers) there and mitigate some issues that backfilling could cause.
Gina wrote, "Although we initially saw a very slight bump in participation, it quickly declined and has left Battleground populations in a fairly unhealthy state."
Translation 20 dudes playing DM over and over and everyone else not bothering. This test proved what everyone except the 20-30 dudes keep saying over and over, that the DM pop is only them.
MurderMostFoul wrote: »MurderMostFoul wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »So looking back at this debacle:
- a poorly thought out test yielded results that we expected.
- Few players actually engaged in BGs when they were DM only
- Listening to the loudest voices on the forum was clearly a mistake
- A specialized choice (randoms vs DM) queue is coming
- All of this IN NO WAY has remotely addressed players playing every flag game like a DM.
That last point is more important as it was the reasoning behind the test in the first place. While the developers are now making it easy to split the population, they missed the fundamental point of incentivizing combatants to play for an objective rather than to just kill everyone in Flag Games.
Exactly correct, as many of us said, this was a bad test and will only show exactly what we have said, a super loud 20-30 people who play DMs all day and spam the forums will be the only ones playing DM only and BGs will die in a week. NAILED IT.
And you are also correct, this did NOT address anything regarding the whiners who play all modes as DM, but is actually rewarding them AGAIN. If the random Q is backfilling the DM only with out some kind of logic, random will just be a trick to try to get people to come back while forcing them to play DM only all the time. Random should NOT backfill DM only or have logic to make it only happen 1/5 or 1/3 of the time.
But wouldn't the opposite be true actually?
If it is only a small minority of players, then the DM games will fill up with those DM players, and maybe a few from the random queue, and most of the objective players will have the random queue to themselves most of the time.
The reality is though, as we literally saw before they removed the individual queues in the first place, more people prefer DM game mode than objective mode, which is why we always saw DM game mode in the random queue more often back in the day. Actual pvpers prefer it.
Yeah you 20-30 DMer/posters keep saying that but we found unequivocally from this test, that DM is only popular to 20-30 people not 100-300 who like other games or more options. As I stated 20-30 people playing DM or posting forums 20-30 times a day, is not the same as the 200-300 people who only do it 1 or 2 times a day. 20x20 does not equal 200x2.
But the fact remains if the random queue is automatically going to always backfill DM only then all queues will be DM only, unless 12 people can queue for random before even 1 person queues for DM, how often will that happen. Queues should be separate or make random NON-DM only. Or add logic to make backfilling rare.
BTW they should make the daily random reward for BGs the same as daily dungeons if they wanted to increase the pop.
Not certain how you've arrived at these specific, unequivocal conclusions, but anyways...
I think they should, like before, make the random mode queues the only ones with the daily win bonus attached. That'll help drive casuals/pvers (and some DMers) there and mitigate some issues that backfilling could cause.
Gina wrote, "Although we initially saw a very slight bump in participation, it quickly declined and has left Battleground populations in a fairly unhealthy state."
Translation 20 dudes playing DM over and over and everyone else not bothering. This test proved what everyone except the 20-30 dudes keep saying over and over, that the DM pop is only them.
What you stated is an assumption, not a translation. It is certainly not "proven" by this test and one could easily equivocate the results. Hyperbolic language is fine for emphasis, but it becomes misleading when used repeatedly.
Hopefully, the system will prioritize matching DM queuers with other DM queuers. That would also help mitigate some issues with backfilling DM games with random queuers.
MurderMostFoul wrote: »MurderMostFoul wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »So looking back at this debacle:
- a poorly thought out test yielded results that we expected.
- Few players actually engaged in BGs when they were DM only
- Listening to the loudest voices on the forum was clearly a mistake
- A specialized choice (randoms vs DM) queue is coming
- All of this IN NO WAY has remotely addressed players playing every flag game like a DM.
That last point is more important as it was the reasoning behind the test in the first place. While the developers are now making it easy to split the population, they missed the fundamental point of incentivizing combatants to play for an objective rather than to just kill everyone in Flag Games.
Exactly correct, as many of us said, this was a bad test and will only show exactly what we have said, a super loud 20-30 people who play DMs all day and spam the forums will be the only ones playing DM only and BGs will die in a week. NAILED IT.
And you are also correct, this did NOT address anything regarding the whiners who play all modes as DM, but is actually rewarding them AGAIN. If the random Q is backfilling the DM only with out some kind of logic, random will just be a trick to try to get people to come back while forcing them to play DM only all the time. Random should NOT backfill DM only or have logic to make it only happen 1/5 or 1/3 of the time.
But wouldn't the opposite be true actually?
If it is only a small minority of players, then the DM games will fill up with those DM players, and maybe a few from the random queue, and most of the objective players will have the random queue to themselves most of the time.
The reality is though, as we literally saw before they removed the individual queues in the first place, more people prefer DM game mode than objective mode, which is why we always saw DM game mode in the random queue more often back in the day. Actual pvpers prefer it.
Yeah you 20-30 DMer/posters keep saying that but we found unequivocally from this test, that DM is only popular to 20-30 people not 100-300 who like other games or more options. As I stated 20-30 people playing DM or posting forums 20-30 times a day, is not the same as the 200-300 people who only do it 1 or 2 times a day. 20x20 does not equal 200x2.
But the fact remains if the random queue is automatically going to always backfill DM only then all queues will be DM only, unless 12 people can queue for random before even 1 person queues for DM, how often will that happen. Queues should be separate or make random NON-DM only. Or add logic to make backfilling rare.
BTW they should make the daily random reward for BGs the same as daily dungeons if they wanted to increase the pop.
Not certain how you've arrived at these specific, unequivocal conclusions, but anyways...
I think they should, like before, make the random mode queues the only ones with the daily win bonus attached. That'll help drive casuals/pvers (and some DMers) there and mitigate some issues that backfilling could cause.
Gina wrote, "Although we initially saw a very slight bump in participation, it quickly declined and has left Battleground populations in a fairly unhealthy state."
Translation 20 dudes playing DM over and over and everyone else not bothering. This test proved what everyone except the 20-30 dudes keep saying over and over, that the DM pop is only them.
What you stated is an assumption, not a translation. It is certainly not "proven" by this test and one could easily equivocate the results. Hyperbolic language is fine for emphasis, but it becomes misleading when used repeatedly.
Hopefully, the system will prioritize matching DM queuers with other DM queuers. That would also help mitigate some issues with backfilling DM games with random queuers.
So the 20 dudes saying DM is the most popular game over and over got ZOS to buy into your nonsense or call your bluff, and gave you all a DM ONLY 'test' for a month, the result POPULATION IN TOILET. They specifically tested what you have been saying and The RESULT is CLEAR, YOU ARE WRONG. But I am done talking about that because at this point you are only lying to yourself.
ZOS must stop listening to this tiny super loud minority group that make suggestions that ruin the game for everyone except their narrow interests.
MurderMostFoul wrote: »MurderMostFoul wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »So looking back at this debacle:
- a poorly thought out test yielded results that we expected.
- Few players actually engaged in BGs when they were DM only
- Listening to the loudest voices on the forum was clearly a mistake
- A specialized choice (randoms vs DM) queue is coming
- All of this IN NO WAY has remotely addressed players playing every flag game like a DM.
That last point is more important as it was the reasoning behind the test in the first place. While the developers are now making it easy to split the population, they missed the fundamental point of incentivizing combatants to play for an objective rather than to just kill everyone in Flag Games.
Exactly correct, as many of us said, this was a bad test and will only show exactly what we have said, a super loud 20-30 people who play DMs all day and spam the forums will be the only ones playing DM only and BGs will die in a week. NAILED IT.
And you are also correct, this did NOT address anything regarding the whiners who play all modes as DM, but is actually rewarding them AGAIN. If the random Q is backfilling the DM only with out some kind of logic, random will just be a trick to try to get people to come back while forcing them to play DM only all the time. Random should NOT backfill DM only or have logic to make it only happen 1/5 or 1/3 of the time.
But wouldn't the opposite be true actually?
If it is only a small minority of players, then the DM games will fill up with those DM players, and maybe a few from the random queue, and most of the objective players will have the random queue to themselves most of the time.
The reality is though, as we literally saw before they removed the individual queues in the first place, more people prefer DM game mode than objective mode, which is why we always saw DM game mode in the random queue more often back in the day. Actual pvpers prefer it.
Yeah you 20-30 DMer/posters keep saying that but we found unequivocally from this test, that DM is only popular to 20-30 people not 100-300 who like other games or more options. As I stated 20-30 people playing DM or posting forums 20-30 times a day, is not the same as the 200-300 people who only do it 1 or 2 times a day. 20x20 does not equal 200x2.
But the fact remains if the random queue is automatically going to always backfill DM only then all queues will be DM only, unless 12 people can queue for random before even 1 person queues for DM, how often will that happen. Queues should be separate or make random NON-DM only. Or add logic to make backfilling rare.
BTW they should make the daily random reward for BGs the same as daily dungeons if they wanted to increase the pop.
Not certain how you've arrived at these specific, unequivocal conclusions, but anyways...
I think they should, like before, make the random mode queues the only ones with the daily win bonus attached. That'll help drive casuals/pvers (and some DMers) there and mitigate some issues that backfilling could cause.
Gina wrote, "Although we initially saw a very slight bump in participation, it quickly declined and has left Battleground populations in a fairly unhealthy state."
Translation 20 dudes playing DM over and over and everyone else not bothering. This test proved what everyone except the 20-30 dudes keep saying over and over, that the DM pop is only them.
What you stated is an assumption, not a translation. It is certainly not "proven" by this test and one could easily equivocate the results. Hyperbolic language is fine for emphasis, but it becomes misleading when used repeatedly.
Hopefully, the system will prioritize matching DM queuers with other DM queuers. That would also help mitigate some issues with backfilling DM games with random queuers.
So the 20 dudes saying DM is the most popular game over and over got ZOS to buy into your nonsense or call your bluff, and gave you all a DM ONLY 'test' for a month, the result POPULATION IN TOILET. They specifically tested what you have been saying and The RESULT is CLEAR, YOU ARE WRONG. But I am done talking about that because at this point you are only lying to yourself.
ZOS must stop listening to this tiny super loud minority group that make suggestions that ruin the game for everyone except their narrow interests.
The problem is, you are ignoring all of the other variables that hit at the exact same time as the BG test, most impactful were the new PVP game that everyone was gushing over, and even more impactful were the overwhelming hatred of Dark Convergence and Hrothgar. So to say that the reason for BG decline was due to DM only is contrived at best.
In fact, the data that ZOS mentioned said that at the beginning of the test, i.e. before the proc sets were fully spread across the game, the population increased. But as DC and Hrothgar became more available, the numbers dropped off.
The point being, the numbers were going to drop off, test or not, because people have not been enjoying small scale BGs with those proc sets.
To add to that, I would argue that the supposed "loud minority" of us who actually want to do pvp things in a pvp mode should in fact be the ones who are listened to for this content rather than the PVE players who want to run around and avoid other players for 10 minutes and gain their AP, XP, Transmutes, once per day and move on.
MurderMostFoul wrote: »MurderMostFoul wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »So looking back at this debacle:
- a poorly thought out test yielded results that we expected.
- Few players actually engaged in BGs when they were DM only
- Listening to the loudest voices on the forum was clearly a mistake
- A specialized choice (randoms vs DM) queue is coming
- All of this IN NO WAY has remotely addressed players playing every flag game like a DM.
That last point is more important as it was the reasoning behind the test in the first place. While the developers are now making it easy to split the population, they missed the fundamental point of incentivizing combatants to play for an objective rather than to just kill everyone in Flag Games.
Exactly correct, as many of us said, this was a bad test and will only show exactly what we have said, a super loud 20-30 people who play DMs all day and spam the forums will be the only ones playing DM only and BGs will die in a week. NAILED IT.
And you are also correct, this did NOT address anything regarding the whiners who play all modes as DM, but is actually rewarding them AGAIN. If the random Q is backfilling the DM only with out some kind of logic, random will just be a trick to try to get people to come back while forcing them to play DM only all the time. Random should NOT backfill DM only or have logic to make it only happen 1/5 or 1/3 of the time.
But wouldn't the opposite be true actually?
If it is only a small minority of players, then the DM games will fill up with those DM players, and maybe a few from the random queue, and most of the objective players will have the random queue to themselves most of the time.
The reality is though, as we literally saw before they removed the individual queues in the first place, more people prefer DM game mode than objective mode, which is why we always saw DM game mode in the random queue more often back in the day. Actual pvpers prefer it.
Yeah you 20-30 DMer/posters keep saying that but we found unequivocally from this test, that DM is only popular to 20-30 people not 100-300 who like other games or more options. As I stated 20-30 people playing DM or posting forums 20-30 times a day, is not the same as the 200-300 people who only do it 1 or 2 times a day. 20x20 does not equal 200x2.
But the fact remains if the random queue is automatically going to always backfill DM only then all queues will be DM only, unless 12 people can queue for random before even 1 person queues for DM, how often will that happen. Queues should be separate or make random NON-DM only. Or add logic to make backfilling rare.
BTW they should make the daily random reward for BGs the same as daily dungeons if they wanted to increase the pop.
Not certain how you've arrived at these specific, unequivocal conclusions, but anyways...
I think they should, like before, make the random mode queues the only ones with the daily win bonus attached. That'll help drive casuals/pvers (and some DMers) there and mitigate some issues that backfilling could cause.
Gina wrote, "Although we initially saw a very slight bump in participation, it quickly declined and has left Battleground populations in a fairly unhealthy state."
Translation 20 dudes playing DM over and over and everyone else not bothering. This test proved what everyone except the 20-30 dudes keep saying over and over, that the DM pop is only them.
What you stated is an assumption, not a translation. It is certainly not "proven" by this test and one could easily equivocate the results. Hyperbolic language is fine for emphasis, but it becomes misleading when used repeatedly.
Hopefully, the system will prioritize matching DM queuers with other DM queuers. That would also help mitigate some issues with backfilling DM games with random queuers.
So the 20 dudes saying DM is the most popular game over and over got ZOS to buy into your nonsense or call your bluff, and gave you all a DM ONLY 'test' for a month, the result POPULATION IN TOILET. They specifically tested what you have been saying and The RESULT is CLEAR, YOU ARE WRONG. But I am done talking about that because at this point you are only lying to yourself.
ZOS must stop listening to this tiny super loud minority group that make suggestions that ruin the game for everyone except their narrow interests.
The problem is, you are ignoring all of the other variables that hit at the exact same time as the BG test, most impactful were the new PVP game that everyone was gushing over, and even more impactful were the overwhelming hatred of Dark Convergence and Hrothgar. So to say that the reason for BG decline was due to DM only is contrived at best.
In fact, the data that ZOS mentioned said that at the beginning of the test, i.e. before the proc sets were fully spread across the game, the population increased. But as DC and Hrothgar became more available, the numbers dropped off.
The point being, the numbers were going to drop off, test or not, because people have not been enjoying small scale BGs with those proc sets.
To add to that, I would argue that the supposed "loud minority" of us who actually want to do pvp things in a pvp mode should in fact be the ones who are listened to for this content rather than the PVE players who want to run around and avoid other players for 10 minutes and gain their AP, XP, Transmutes, once per day and move on.
NO, YOU are ignoring the facts. There was a specific test to see how many people want DM only and it failed in every way. You can make all the excuses you want but the results would be the same at any time. I actually hate chaosball more than DM. But the real problem is not how many people like which mode, it is casual players having to deal with super sweaty players who ruin the game for them. One fix I suggested is if someone blocks someone else they should never have to play with them in BGs or DF, and I think they should even make blocked people NON-interactable in cyro/IC with each other. Or like New World they could implement a turn PVP on or off when going into cyro or IC.
The main problem is the people who are hyper obsessed with KDA and/or DPS who have been catered to by ZOS to the point where the game is in a bad state. There are core things about combat that have always been terrible (or should I say exploits that you either love or hate). The people who love them think it's great but vast majority of players don't like those. But it is really the toxic folks who make the game NOT FUN that is the cause of pop decline. Unlike the people who threaten to leave the game constantly, I think listening to you all has made it so lots of people have REALLY left. My ESO+ ends next month and is cancelled and I only log in once in a while. Congrats you 20-50 dudes will have the game all to yourselves.
And again, I will mention, if, as you claim, only a few people actually want DM mode, then when the DM queue goes live, you should rarely see DM mode in the random queue because no one will be doing it. I posit that you will be wrong and that, alongside the DC nerfs that are coming in the same patch, DM only will be the most popular queue because most, actual pvpers, don't care for pvping avoiding and poorly designed objective game modes.
[snip], yet rank #100 on the DM Leaderboards has had a high accumulation of medals every week since the test started. Meaning that to get ranked you had to play a lot of matches. Assumptions get smacked by facts.Yeah you 20-30 DMer/posters keep saying that but we found unequivocally from this test, that DM is only popular to 20-30 people not 100-300 who like other games or more options. As I stated 20-30 people playing DM or posting forums 20-30 times a day, is not the same as the 200-300 people who only do it 1 or 2 times a day. 20x20 does not equal 200x2.
You're ignoring the fact that ZOS, who can look at the actual data, decided it was best to separate DM queue from your PvE Modes. Make up all the numbers you want, that fact will not change. The Leaderboards don't lie either. They're garbage when it comes to ranking players by skill, but they're good at measuring time played.NO, YOU are ignoring the facts. There was a specific test to see how many people want DM only and it failed in every way. You can make all the excuses you want but the results would be the same at any time.
LMAO @ ZOS catering to "the sweaty" players ruining the game. ZOS caters to casuals through and through. It's not the fault of the "sweaty" (read "skilled") players casuals get pitted against them.I actually hate chaosball more than DM. But the real problem is not how many people like which mode, it is casual players having to deal with super sweaty players who ruin the game for them.
MurderMostFoul wrote: »MurderMostFoul wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »So looking back at this debacle:
- a poorly thought out test yielded results that we expected.
- Few players actually engaged in BGs when they were DM only
- Listening to the loudest voices on the forum was clearly a mistake
- A specialized choice (randoms vs DM) queue is coming
- All of this IN NO WAY has remotely addressed players playing every flag game like a DM.
That last point is more important as it was the reasoning behind the test in the first place. While the developers are now making it easy to split the population, they missed the fundamental point of incentivizing combatants to play for an objective rather than to just kill everyone in Flag Games.
Exactly correct, as many of us said, this was a bad test and will only show exactly what we have said, a super loud 20-30 people who play DMs all day and spam the forums will be the only ones playing DM only and BGs will die in a week. NAILED IT.
And you are also correct, this did NOT address anything regarding the whiners who play all modes as DM, but is actually rewarding them AGAIN. If the random Q is backfilling the DM only with out some kind of logic, random will just be a trick to try to get people to come back while forcing them to play DM only all the time. Random should NOT backfill DM only or have logic to make it only happen 1/5 or 1/3 of the time.
But wouldn't the opposite be true actually?
If it is only a small minority of players, then the DM games will fill up with those DM players, and maybe a few from the random queue, and most of the objective players will have the random queue to themselves most of the time.
The reality is though, as we literally saw before they removed the individual queues in the first place, more people prefer DM game mode than objective mode, which is why we always saw DM game mode in the random queue more often back in the day. Actual pvpers prefer it.
Yeah you 20-30 DMer/posters keep saying that but we found unequivocally from this test, that DM is only popular to 20-30 people not 100-300 who like other games or more options. As I stated 20-30 people playing DM or posting forums 20-30 times a day, is not the same as the 200-300 people who only do it 1 or 2 times a day. 20x20 does not equal 200x2.
But the fact remains if the random queue is automatically going to always backfill DM only then all queues will be DM only, unless 12 people can queue for random before even 1 person queues for DM, how often will that happen. Queues should be separate or make random NON-DM only. Or add logic to make backfilling rare.
BTW they should make the daily random reward for BGs the same as daily dungeons if they wanted to increase the pop.
Not certain how you've arrived at these specific, unequivocal conclusions, but anyways...
I think they should, like before, make the random mode queues the only ones with the daily win bonus attached. That'll help drive casuals/pvers (and some DMers) there and mitigate some issues that backfilling could cause.
Gina wrote, "Although we initially saw a very slight bump in participation, it quickly declined and has left Battleground populations in a fairly unhealthy state."
Translation 20 dudes playing DM over and over and everyone else not bothering. This test proved what everyone except the 20-30 dudes keep saying over and over, that the DM pop is only them.
What you stated is an assumption, not a translation. It is certainly not "proven" by this test and one could easily equivocate the results. Hyperbolic language is fine for emphasis, but it becomes misleading when used repeatedly.
Hopefully, the system will prioritize matching DM queuers with other DM queuers. That would also help mitigate some issues with backfilling DM games with random queuers.
So the 20 dudes saying DM is the most popular game over and over got ZOS to buy into your nonsense or call your bluff, and gave you all a DM ONLY 'test' for a month, the result POPULATION IN TOILET. They specifically tested what you have been saying and The RESULT is CLEAR, YOU ARE WRONG. But I am done talking about that because at this point you are only lying to yourself.
ZOS must stop listening to this tiny super loud minority group that make suggestions that ruin the game for everyone except their narrow interests.
The problem is, you are ignoring all of the other variables that hit at the exact same time as the BG test, most impactful were the new PVP game that everyone was gushing over, and even more impactful were the overwhelming hatred of Dark Convergence and Hrothgar. So to say that the reason for BG decline was due to DM only is contrived at best.
In fact, the data that ZOS mentioned said that at the beginning of the test, i.e. before the proc sets were fully spread across the game, the population increased. But as DC and Hrothgar became more available, the numbers dropped off.
The point being, the numbers were going to drop off, test or not, because people have not been enjoying small scale BGs with those proc sets.
To add to that, I would argue that the supposed "loud minority" of us who actually want to do pvp things in a pvp mode should in fact be the ones who are listened to for this content rather than the PVE players who want to run around and avoid other players for 10 minutes and gain their AP, XP, Transmutes, once per day and move on.
Franchise408 wrote: »MurderMostFoul wrote: »MurderMostFoul wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »So looking back at this debacle:
- a poorly thought out test yielded results that we expected.
- Few players actually engaged in BGs when they were DM only
- Listening to the loudest voices on the forum was clearly a mistake
- A specialized choice (randoms vs DM) queue is coming
- All of this IN NO WAY has remotely addressed players playing every flag game like a DM.
That last point is more important as it was the reasoning behind the test in the first place. While the developers are now making it easy to split the population, they missed the fundamental point of incentivizing combatants to play for an objective rather than to just kill everyone in Flag Games.
Exactly correct, as many of us said, this was a bad test and will only show exactly what we have said, a super loud 20-30 people who play DMs all day and spam the forums will be the only ones playing DM only and BGs will die in a week. NAILED IT.
And you are also correct, this did NOT address anything regarding the whiners who play all modes as DM, but is actually rewarding them AGAIN. If the random Q is backfilling the DM only with out some kind of logic, random will just be a trick to try to get people to come back while forcing them to play DM only all the time. Random should NOT backfill DM only or have logic to make it only happen 1/5 or 1/3 of the time.
But wouldn't the opposite be true actually?
If it is only a small minority of players, then the DM games will fill up with those DM players, and maybe a few from the random queue, and most of the objective players will have the random queue to themselves most of the time.
The reality is though, as we literally saw before they removed the individual queues in the first place, more people prefer DM game mode than objective mode, which is why we always saw DM game mode in the random queue more often back in the day. Actual pvpers prefer it.
Yeah you 20-30 DMer/posters keep saying that but we found unequivocally from this test, that DM is only popular to 20-30 people not 100-300 who like other games or more options. As I stated 20-30 people playing DM or posting forums 20-30 times a day, is not the same as the 200-300 people who only do it 1 or 2 times a day. 20x20 does not equal 200x2.
But the fact remains if the random queue is automatically going to always backfill DM only then all queues will be DM only, unless 12 people can queue for random before even 1 person queues for DM, how often will that happen. Queues should be separate or make random NON-DM only. Or add logic to make backfilling rare.
BTW they should make the daily random reward for BGs the same as daily dungeons if they wanted to increase the pop.
Not certain how you've arrived at these specific, unequivocal conclusions, but anyways...
I think they should, like before, make the random mode queues the only ones with the daily win bonus attached. That'll help drive casuals/pvers (and some DMers) there and mitigate some issues that backfilling could cause.
Gina wrote, "Although we initially saw a very slight bump in participation, it quickly declined and has left Battleground populations in a fairly unhealthy state."
Translation 20 dudes playing DM over and over and everyone else not bothering. This test proved what everyone except the 20-30 dudes keep saying over and over, that the DM pop is only them.
What you stated is an assumption, not a translation. It is certainly not "proven" by this test and one could easily equivocate the results. Hyperbolic language is fine for emphasis, but it becomes misleading when used repeatedly.
Hopefully, the system will prioritize matching DM queuers with other DM queuers. That would also help mitigate some issues with backfilling DM games with random queuers.
So the 20 dudes saying DM is the most popular game over and over got ZOS to buy into your nonsense or call your bluff, and gave you all a DM ONLY 'test' for a month, the result POPULATION IN TOILET. They specifically tested what you have been saying and The RESULT is CLEAR, YOU ARE WRONG. But I am done talking about that because at this point you are only lying to yourself.
ZOS must stop listening to this tiny super loud minority group that make suggestions that ruin the game for everyone except their narrow interests.
The problem is, you are ignoring all of the other variables that hit at the exact same time as the BG test, most impactful were the new PVP game that everyone was gushing over, and even more impactful were the overwhelming hatred of Dark Convergence and Hrothgar. So to say that the reason for BG decline was due to DM only is contrived at best.
In fact, the data that ZOS mentioned said that at the beginning of the test, i.e. before the proc sets were fully spread across the game, the population increased. But as DC and Hrothgar became more available, the numbers dropped off.
The point being, the numbers were going to drop off, test or not, because people have not been enjoying small scale BGs with those proc sets.
To add to that, I would argue that the supposed "loud minority" of us who actually want to do pvp things in a pvp mode should in fact be the ones who are listened to for this content rather than the PVE players who want to run around and avoid other players for 10 minutes and gain their AP, XP, Transmutes, once per day and move on.
PVP simply means "player versus player"
It does not mean "killing" or "deathmatch"
Sports games like Madden or NBA 2K are PVP, because you play against another player.
Just for fun games like Among Us are PVP, because you play against other players.
Even PVP games that are centered around killing each other, i.e. Counterstrike or Call Of Duty, have objectives that award players for achievements outside of killing each other.
So to suggest that objectives =/= PVP is disingenuous. To hold DM players in some higher regard and claim that objectives players just want to avoid others is disingenuous.
Right? It's like people don't read the whole thread and just skip and reply to the last post. We've been over this. 3 team is anti-competitive. Team B and Team C can just choose to grief and gang up on Team A. There's nothing stopping them from doing it. If Battlegrounds were turned into Head-to-Head arenas with only two teams, Deathmatch players would start enjoying objective modes while current Objective Players would most like stop enjoying them because the competition would heat up. Case in point, we've all seen it the typical "I'm bad at combat, but I can at least contribute in objective modes" forum posts. What those people fail to realize is they're able to contribute because a lot of their opponents literally couldn't care less about the objective. It's boring because the meta is to avoid conflict. Half measures of only avoiding combat if you can afford to give points away is boring.The difference with those Counterstrike and COD examples is that PVP with objectives is designed to force encounters and not designed with a rogue third opponent who can lazily steal relics or take flags without any conflict. You mention all of these PVP games, but you ignore the one aspect, you actually have to face your opponent in some manor in them. Whether that is playing defense or offense in a game like madden, or out strategizing your opponent in Among Us.
What this game does in BGs with objective modes is the equivalent of having a third team on the football field who just lets the other two teams actually play the mode while they score TDs unopposed.
Now, if the objectives in BGs were two teams against one another for relic, or a single capture point more akin to king of the hill, where encounters and actual fighting over objectives were encouraged, then it would truly be pvp. Instead we get this lazy game mode that encourages lazy gameplay.
trackdemon5512 wrote: »So looking back at this debacle:
- a poorly thought out test yielded results that we expected.
- Few players actually engaged in BGs when they were DM only
- Listening to the loudest voices on the forum was clearly a mistake
- A specialized choice (randoms vs DM) queue is coming
- All of this IN NO WAY has remotely addressed players playing every flag game like a DM.
That last point is more important as it was the reasoning behind the test in the first place. While the developers are now making it easy to split the population, they missed the fundamental point of incentivizing combatants to play for an objective rather than to just kill everyone in Flag Games.
Exactly correct, as many of us said, this was a bad test and will only show exactly what we have said, a super loud 20-30 people who play DMs all day and spam the forums will be the only ones playing DM only and BGs will die in a week. NAILED IT.
And you are also correct, this did NOT address anything regarding the whiners who play all modes as DM, but is actually rewarding them AGAIN. If the random Q is backfilling the DM only with out some kind of logic, random will just be a trick to try to get people to come back while forcing them to play DM only all the time. Random should NOT backfill DM only or have logic to make it only happen 1/5 or 1/3 of the time.
But wouldn't the opposite be true actually?
If it is only a small minority of players, then the DM games will fill up with those DM players, and maybe a few from the random queue, and most of the objective players will have the random queue to themselves most of the time.
The reality is though, as we literally saw before they removed the individual queues in the first place, more people prefer DM game mode than objective mode, which is why we always saw DM game mode in the random queue more often back in the day. Actual pvpers prefer it.
Yeah you 20-30 DMer/posters keep saying that but we found unequivocally from this test, that DM is only popular to 20-30 people not 100-300 who like other games or more options. As I stated 20-30 people playing DM or posting forums 20-30 times a day, is not the same as the 200-300 people who only do it 1 or 2 times a day. 20x20 does not equal 200x2.
But the fact remains if the random queue is automatically going to always backfill DM only then all queues will be DM only, unless 12 people can queue for random before even 1 person queues for DM, how often will that happen. Queues should be separate or make random NON-DM only. Or add logic to make backfilling rare.
BTW they should make the daily random reward for BGs the same as daily dungeons if they wanted to increase the pop.
Franchise408 wrote: »MurderMostFoul wrote: »MurderMostFoul wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »So looking back at this debacle:
- a poorly thought out test yielded results that we expected.
- Few players actually engaged in BGs when they were DM only
- Listening to the loudest voices on the forum was clearly a mistake
- A specialized choice (randoms vs DM) queue is coming
- All of this IN NO WAY has remotely addressed players playing every flag game like a DM.
That last point is more important as it was the reasoning behind the test in the first place. While the developers are now making it easy to split the population, they missed the fundamental point of incentivizing combatants to play for an objective rather than to just kill everyone in Flag Games.
Exactly correct, as many of us said, this was a bad test and will only show exactly what we have said, a super loud 20-30 people who play DMs all day and spam the forums will be the only ones playing DM only and BGs will die in a week. NAILED IT.
And you are also correct, this did NOT address anything regarding the whiners who play all modes as DM, but is actually rewarding them AGAIN. If the random Q is backfilling the DM only with out some kind of logic, random will just be a trick to try to get people to come back while forcing them to play DM only all the time. Random should NOT backfill DM only or have logic to make it only happen 1/5 or 1/3 of the time.
But wouldn't the opposite be true actually?
If it is only a small minority of players, then the DM games will fill up with those DM players, and maybe a few from the random queue, and most of the objective players will have the random queue to themselves most of the time.
The reality is though, as we literally saw before they removed the individual queues in the first place, more people prefer DM game mode than objective mode, which is why we always saw DM game mode in the random queue more often back in the day. Actual pvpers prefer it.
Yeah you 20-30 DMer/posters keep saying that but we found unequivocally from this test, that DM is only popular to 20-30 people not 100-300 who like other games or more options. As I stated 20-30 people playing DM or posting forums 20-30 times a day, is not the same as the 200-300 people who only do it 1 or 2 times a day. 20x20 does not equal 200x2.
But the fact remains if the random queue is automatically going to always backfill DM only then all queues will be DM only, unless 12 people can queue for random before even 1 person queues for DM, how often will that happen. Queues should be separate or make random NON-DM only. Or add logic to make backfilling rare.
BTW they should make the daily random reward for BGs the same as daily dungeons if they wanted to increase the pop.
Not certain how you've arrived at these specific, unequivocal conclusions, but anyways...
I think they should, like before, make the random mode queues the only ones with the daily win bonus attached. That'll help drive casuals/pvers (and some DMers) there and mitigate some issues that backfilling could cause.
Gina wrote, "Although we initially saw a very slight bump in participation, it quickly declined and has left Battleground populations in a fairly unhealthy state."
Translation 20 dudes playing DM over and over and everyone else not bothering. This test proved what everyone except the 20-30 dudes keep saying over and over, that the DM pop is only them.
What you stated is an assumption, not a translation. It is certainly not "proven" by this test and one could easily equivocate the results. Hyperbolic language is fine for emphasis, but it becomes misleading when used repeatedly.
Hopefully, the system will prioritize matching DM queuers with other DM queuers. That would also help mitigate some issues with backfilling DM games with random queuers.
So the 20 dudes saying DM is the most popular game over and over got ZOS to buy into your nonsense or call your bluff, and gave you all a DM ONLY 'test' for a month, the result POPULATION IN TOILET. They specifically tested what you have been saying and The RESULT is CLEAR, YOU ARE WRONG. But I am done talking about that because at this point you are only lying to yourself.
ZOS must stop listening to this tiny super loud minority group that make suggestions that ruin the game for everyone except their narrow interests.
The problem is, you are ignoring all of the other variables that hit at the exact same time as the BG test, most impactful were the new PVP game that everyone was gushing over, and even more impactful were the overwhelming hatred of Dark Convergence and Hrothgar. So to say that the reason for BG decline was due to DM only is contrived at best.
In fact, the data that ZOS mentioned said that at the beginning of the test, i.e. before the proc sets were fully spread across the game, the population increased. But as DC and Hrothgar became more available, the numbers dropped off.
The point being, the numbers were going to drop off, test or not, because people have not been enjoying small scale BGs with those proc sets.
To add to that, I would argue that the supposed "loud minority" of us who actually want to do pvp things in a pvp mode should in fact be the ones who are listened to for this content rather than the PVE players who want to run around and avoid other players for 10 minutes and gain their AP, XP, Transmutes, once per day and move on.
PVP simply means "player versus player"
It does not mean "killing" or "deathmatch"
Sports games like Madden or NBA 2K are PVP, because you play against another player.
Just for fun games like Among Us are PVP, because you play against other players.
Even PVP games that are centered around killing each other, i.e. Counterstrike or Call Of Duty, have objectives that award players for achievements outside of killing each other.
So to suggest that objectives =/= PVP is disingenuous. To hold DM players in some higher regard and claim that objectives players just want to avoid others is disingenuous.
The difference with those Counterstrike and COD examples is that PVP with objectives is designed to force encounters and not designed with a rogue third opponent who can lazily steal relics or take flags without any conflict. You mention all of these PVP games, but you ignore the one aspect, you actually have to face your opponent in some manor in them. Whether that is playing defense or offense in a game like madden, or out strategizing your opponent in Among Us.
What this game does in BGs with objective modes is the equivalent of having a third team on the football field who just lets the other two teams actually play the mode while they score TDs unopposed.
Now, if the objectives in BGs were two teams against one another for relic, or a single capture point more akin to king of the hill, where encounters and actual fighting over objectives were encouraged, then it would truly be pvp. Instead we get this lazy game mode that encourages lazy gameplay.
The only good objective mode at the moment is Chaos Ball, because it encourages battling over the objective. Crazy king is close to be good, but too many flags at the end game of it makes it another battle avoidance simulator.
Franchise408 wrote: »MurderMostFoul wrote: »MurderMostFoul wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »So looking back at this debacle:
- a poorly thought out test yielded results that we expected.
- Few players actually engaged in BGs when they were DM only
- Listening to the loudest voices on the forum was clearly a mistake
- A specialized choice (randoms vs DM) queue is coming
- All of this IN NO WAY has remotely addressed players playing every flag game like a DM.
That last point is more important as it was the reasoning behind the test in the first place. While the developers are now making it easy to split the population, they missed the fundamental point of incentivizing combatants to play for an objective rather than to just kill everyone in Flag Games.
Exactly correct, as many of us said, this was a bad test and will only show exactly what we have said, a super loud 20-30 people who play DMs all day and spam the forums will be the only ones playing DM only and BGs will die in a week. NAILED IT.
And you are also correct, this did NOT address anything regarding the whiners who play all modes as DM, but is actually rewarding them AGAIN. If the random Q is backfilling the DM only with out some kind of logic, random will just be a trick to try to get people to come back while forcing them to play DM only all the time. Random should NOT backfill DM only or have logic to make it only happen 1/5 or 1/3 of the time.
But wouldn't the opposite be true actually?
If it is only a small minority of players, then the DM games will fill up with those DM players, and maybe a few from the random queue, and most of the objective players will have the random queue to themselves most of the time.
The reality is though, as we literally saw before they removed the individual queues in the first place, more people prefer DM game mode than objective mode, which is why we always saw DM game mode in the random queue more often back in the day. Actual pvpers prefer it.
Yeah you 20-30 DMer/posters keep saying that but we found unequivocally from this test, that DM is only popular to 20-30 people not 100-300 who like other games or more options. As I stated 20-30 people playing DM or posting forums 20-30 times a day, is not the same as the 200-300 people who only do it 1 or 2 times a day. 20x20 does not equal 200x2.
But the fact remains if the random queue is automatically going to always backfill DM only then all queues will be DM only, unless 12 people can queue for random before even 1 person queues for DM, how often will that happen. Queues should be separate or make random NON-DM only. Or add logic to make backfilling rare.
BTW they should make the daily random reward for BGs the same as daily dungeons if they wanted to increase the pop.
Not certain how you've arrived at these specific, unequivocal conclusions, but anyways...
I think they should, like before, make the random mode queues the only ones with the daily win bonus attached. That'll help drive casuals/pvers (and some DMers) there and mitigate some issues that backfilling could cause.
Gina wrote, "Although we initially saw a very slight bump in participation, it quickly declined and has left Battleground populations in a fairly unhealthy state."
Translation 20 dudes playing DM over and over and everyone else not bothering. This test proved what everyone except the 20-30 dudes keep saying over and over, that the DM pop is only them.
What you stated is an assumption, not a translation. It is certainly not "proven" by this test and one could easily equivocate the results. Hyperbolic language is fine for emphasis, but it becomes misleading when used repeatedly.
Hopefully, the system will prioritize matching DM queuers with other DM queuers. That would also help mitigate some issues with backfilling DM games with random queuers.
So the 20 dudes saying DM is the most popular game over and over got ZOS to buy into your nonsense or call your bluff, and gave you all a DM ONLY 'test' for a month, the result POPULATION IN TOILET. They specifically tested what you have been saying and The RESULT is CLEAR, YOU ARE WRONG. But I am done talking about that because at this point you are only lying to yourself.
ZOS must stop listening to this tiny super loud minority group that make suggestions that ruin the game for everyone except their narrow interests.
The problem is, you are ignoring all of the other variables that hit at the exact same time as the BG test, most impactful were the new PVP game that everyone was gushing over, and even more impactful were the overwhelming hatred of Dark Convergence and Hrothgar. So to say that the reason for BG decline was due to DM only is contrived at best.
In fact, the data that ZOS mentioned said that at the beginning of the test, i.e. before the proc sets were fully spread across the game, the population increased. But as DC and Hrothgar became more available, the numbers dropped off.
The point being, the numbers were going to drop off, test or not, because people have not been enjoying small scale BGs with those proc sets.
To add to that, I would argue that the supposed "loud minority" of us who actually want to do pvp things in a pvp mode should in fact be the ones who are listened to for this content rather than the PVE players who want to run around and avoid other players for 10 minutes and gain their AP, XP, Transmutes, once per day and move on.
PVP simply means "player versus player"
It does not mean "killing" or "deathmatch"
Sports games like Madden or NBA 2K are PVP, because you play against another player.
Just for fun games like Among Us are PVP, because you play against other players.
Even PVP games that are centered around killing each other, i.e. Counterstrike or Call Of Duty, have objectives that award players for achievements outside of killing each other.
So to suggest that objectives =/= PVP is disingenuous. To hold DM players in some higher regard and claim that objectives players just want to avoid others is disingenuous.
Ironic coming from you. You keep saying 20-30 people over and over when you can just look at the DM Leaderboards to know it's not true.You are right, these 20-30 dudes who do nothing but insult everyone who doesn't like playing the game the way they do [snip], think saying the same thing over and over will make it true.
Definitely. The constant neglect of Cyrodiil leaving it an unplayable mess and Companions of all things being the main feature of the most recent expansion for an MMO truly speaks to the fact that ZOS does nothing but cater to the sweaty PvP crowd. Lmao, listen to yourself.Unfortunately ZOS has been listening to them and trying to appease them for a couple of years and it has had terrible consequences.
How or why do certain people make the game unfun? Care to Elaborate?They actually believe people don't want to play against/with them because they are TOO GOOD but it is that they make the game totally UNFUN.
Yeah, because that would totally not get abused at all. Jfc, that's a really bad idea.I am mostly done with the game but one simple change that would be great would be that if you block someone, you should never be put in a BG or DF group with them.
Franchise408 wrote: »I keep hearing the same arguments over and over again about how objective based BG's are designed in a way to encourage a lack of player confrontation, but I disagree.
In all my time doing BG's, I've never been in a BG where I don't engage with enemy combatants. Whether I am defending a flag, or trying to take a relic, or whatever the case may be, there is always engagement. And if I am not prepared, and if I do not play skillfully, I will be defeated and my team can be in danger of losing.
So I simply disagree with the claim being made that objective BG's discourage player v. player combat.
I also disagree with the claim that combat is the only valid form of PVP strategy. You even mention in your response to my Among Us claim that the strategy comes from out-smarting your opponent. Why is out-smarting your opponent a valid strategy in Among Us, but not in ESO BG's?
the1andonlyskwex wrote: »Franchise408 wrote: »I keep hearing the same arguments over and over again about how objective based BG's are designed in a way to encourage a lack of player confrontation, but I disagree.
In all my time doing BG's, I've never been in a BG where I don't engage with enemy combatants. Whether I am defending a flag, or trying to take a relic, or whatever the case may be, there is always engagement. And if I am not prepared, and if I do not play skillfully, I will be defeated and my team can be in danger of losing.
So I simply disagree with the claim being made that objective BG's discourage player v. player combat.
I also disagree with the claim that combat is the only valid form of PVP strategy. You even mention in your response to my Among Us claim that the strategy comes from out-smarting your opponent. Why is out-smarting your opponent a valid strategy in Among Us, but not in ESO BG's?
The only case where totally avoiding combat is the best strategy is when the majority of the players in the game get tunnel vision and focus on killing other players instead of playing the objectives.
Sadly, the deathmatchers who complain about objective modes see this situation disproportionately because they and their teams are usually the ones getting tunnel vision.
If you decide to spend your time spawn camping or fighting in the middle of the map, you really shouldn't complain when one of the other teams manages to run around capturing objectives without any opposition.
What this game does in BGs with objective modes is the equivalent of having a third team on the football field who just lets the other two teams actually play the mode while they score TDs unopposed.
Asriel_Brightborn wrote: »I detest most of the PVP in this game and could only tolerate the non-deathmatch mode options so that I could get war horn, barrier, and a few other PVE skills that are useful. I have absolutely zero interest in deathmatch.
It probably wouldn't be so bad if the losing team wasn't totally messed over in gaining Alliance skill experience. The fact of the matter is, people like me who hate PVP and particularly hate deathmatch, now have even fewer options to try to gain those skill lines.
Advice:
- Make the experience gain for your first random battle ground equal whether you win or lose (keep the equipment rewards the same for those who score highest to still provide an incentive for players who focus on this game aspect)
- Return an option to randomly queue for any mode
- Allow players to gain Alliance skill experience (Assault, Support) by doing quests in Cyrodiil so we're not 100% reliant on battlegrounds to try and gain the necessary PVE skills for trials
Asriel_Brightborn wrote: »I detest most of the PVP in this game and could only tolerate the non-deathmatch mode options so that I could get war horn, barrier, and a few other PVE skills that are useful. I have absolutely zero interest in deathmatch.
It probably wouldn't be so bad if the losing team wasn't totally messed over in gaining Alliance skill experience. The fact of the matter is, people like me who hate PVP and particularly hate deathmatch, now have even fewer options to try to gain those skill lines.
Advice:
- Make the experience gain for your first random battle ground equal whether you win or lose (keep the equipment rewards the same for those who score highest to still provide an incentive for players who focus on this game aspect)
- Return an option to randomly queue for any mode
- Allow players to gain Alliance skill experience (Assault, Support) by doing quests in Cyrodiil so we're not 100% reliant on battlegrounds to try and gain the necessary PVE skills for trials
The fact that a pure PvE player that detests PvP could stomach objective modes but not DM truly speaks to the fact how DM is actual PvP and obj modes aren't because of the 3 team system this game has.Asriel_Brightborn wrote: »I detest most of the PVP in this game and could only tolerate the non-deathmatch mode options so that I could get war horn, barrier, and a few other PVE skills that are useful. I have absolutely zero interest in deathmatch.
The fact that a pure PvE player that detests PvP could stomach objective modes but not DM truly speaks to the fact how DM is actual PvP and obj modes aren't because of the 3 team system this game has.Asriel_Brightborn wrote: »I detest most of the PVP in this game and could only tolerate the non-deathmatch mode options so that I could get war horn, barrier, and a few other PVE skills that are useful. I have absolutely zero interest in deathmatch.
Make BGs into 6v6 Head-to-Head arenas like the other games these objective mode lovers keep bringing up and see how many of them keep enjoying Objective Modes.