Upcoming Changes to Battleground Queues

Franchise408

Magio_ wrote: »

Asriel_Brightborn wrote: »

I detest most of the PVP in this game and could only tolerate the non-deathmatch mode options so that I could get war horn, barrier, and a few other PVE skills that are useful. I have absolutely zero interest in deathmatch.

The fact that a pure PvE player that detests PvP could stomach objective modes but not DM truly speaks to the fact how DM is actual PvP and obj modes aren't because of the 3 team system this game has.

Make BGs into 6v6 Head-to-Head arenas like the other games these objective mode lovers keep bringing up and see how many of them keep enjoying Objective Modes.

Hmmm... so much assumption in one thread to serve a self built narrative.

Am I a "pure PVE player"? I prefer playing sports games against human opponents where I can't just memorize the AI and exploit it with plays that I know will work, and I used to run an online Madden league with 32 people total, all teams controlled by human opponents.

Some of my favorite all time games have been online shooters like Counterstrike and Battlefield where I am playing against other people - and appropriately enough, those games appealed more to me in large part due to the strategic element of having objectives to play for rather than just mindlessly killing each other.

While I don't know where it would rank on my all time MMO's, one of the most defining MMO experiences for me was Warhammer Online, which being a PVP based game changed my perspective on how I wanted to play and enjoy MMO's.

One of the original draws to me in the first place in ESO was the PVP in this game and going into Cyrodiil and taking part in the fighting there.

Count me among the people who much prefer the objective based battlegrounds over deathmatch. Deathmatch doesn't take strategy, it's just a bunch of people running around seeing who has the highest proc burst. If ESO PVP was more based around skill rather than sets, then perhaps deathmatch would be a funner mode, but as it stands, the objective based BG's which take strategy and planning to succeed in are far superior to me than deathmatch can ever hope to be.

This whole narrative that "deathmatch is rEaL pVp" needs to stop.

MurderMostFoul

Franchise408 wrote: »

If ESO PVP was more based around skill rather than sets, then perhaps deathmatch would be a funner mode

Skill is FAR more important than sets in ESO PvP. Especially in battlegrounds where CP imbalances are not a factor.

Franchise408

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

If ESO PVP was more based around skill rather than sets, then perhaps deathmatch would be a funner mode

Skill is FAR more important than sets in ESO PvP. Especially in battlegrounds where CP imbalances are not a factor.

As someone who has been playing ESO PVP for years, I call b.s.

Magio_

Franchise408 wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

If ESO PVP was more based around skill rather than sets, then perhaps deathmatch would be a funner mode

Skill is FAR more important than sets in ESO PvP. Especially in battlegrounds where CP imbalances are not a factor.

As someone who has been playing ESO PVP for years, I call b.s.

Lol, maybe just maybe, the people that beat you are actually better than you. Ever thought of that as a possibility?

Yes, some sets or builds raise the floor, but the ceiling stays the same. You can always use any set/build better.

PhoenixGrey

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

If ESO PVP was more based around skill rather than sets, then perhaps deathmatch would be a funner mode

Skill is FAR more important than sets in ESO PvP. Especially in battlegrounds where CP imbalances are not a factor.

I think skill ceiling is quite low and the floor is quite high in BG's once everyone runs their strongest possible setup. I can guarantee that a newbie mag sorc running ironblood with DC/spinner's/Crafty along with 3 pets can get the same kind of result as a seasoned player with the same setup. That's the whole reason why BG's are the best place for newbie's to start PVP

Certain sets take player skill out of the equation and you do not have CP to mitigate their impact.

In CP cyrodil the ceiling higher so the seasoned player will probably 1vX the newbie with the same setup.

Magio_

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Certain sets take player skill out of the equation and you do not have CP to mitigate their impact.

In CP cyrodil the ceiling higher so the seasoned player will probably 1vX the newbie with the same setup.

Or maybe because you have 1,000 CP to spend on power that the newbie doesn't lmao.

C'mon now. CP PvP is not an even playing field.

Franchise408

Magio_ wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

If ESO PVP was more based around skill rather than sets, then perhaps deathmatch would be a funner mode

Skill is FAR more important than sets in ESO PvP. Especially in battlegrounds where CP imbalances are not a factor.

As someone who has been playing ESO PVP for years, I call b.s.

Lol, maybe just maybe, the people that beat you are actually better than you. Ever thought of that as a possibility?

Yes, some sets or builds raise the floor, but the ceiling stays the same. You can always use any set/build better.

Who says I'm upset about people beating me?

Maybe I can see it in my own play that I perform entirely different depending on my gear setups versus not.

Sets in this game are a huge factor.

gariondavey

Aldoss wrote: »

ZOS unleashing DC when they did was a mistake during the most pivotal time in the last couple years.

Of all times to not make a mistake, last month was it.

They made their choice and then doubled down on that choice by not immediately correcting the mistake.

Tying the DC changes to a patch update 6 weeks into the future only served to reaffirm the decision to leave for other games, for anyone who did.

Anything short of Cyrodiil suddenly not lagging and delivering flawlessly on their vision of epic 100v100 battles will be too little too late. I play BGs mostly because Cyro lag is unbearable and the frustration it causes me is unhealthy.

I think those players are gone.

Nailed it.

PhoenixGrey

Magio_ wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Certain sets take player skill out of the equation and you do not have CP to mitigate their impact.

In CP cyrodil the ceiling higher so the seasoned player will probably 1vX the newbie with the same setup.

Or maybe because you have 1,000 CP to spend on power that the newbie doesn't lmao.

C'mon now. CP PvP is not an even playing field.

A newbie pvp player is not necessarily low cp. I was close to max cp before I started pvp'ing.

I know of stamina nb's who can easily 1Vx a lot of BG regulars in cp cyrodil and they often appear in their 1vx clips. These same stamina nbs find it hard in no cp bgs for obvious reasons. It used to be the same with mag sorc when the class used to be good.

Cp also offers lot of build diversity to suit your playstyle. In no cp its highly limited like garbage damage shields so that's one mag playstyle right outta the window. And of course there is a million procs which hit you harder than ultimates

MurderMostFoul

Franchise408 wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

If ESO PVP was more based around skill rather than sets, then perhaps deathmatch would be a funner mode

Skill is FAR more important than sets in ESO PvP. Especially in battlegrounds where CP imbalances are not a factor.

As someone who has been playing ESO PVP for years, I call b.s.

I started playing this game with PC release always with a focus on PVP. I've taken a few breaks, but I've literally played thousands and thousands of BGs. Sets are obviously important, along with quality of gear, and skill selection. But none of that will matter if you don't have the skill to back it up. A good player in unoptimized gear can easily beat a bad player in optimized meta gear.

newtinmpls

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

I can guarantee that a newbie mag sorc running ironblood with DC/spinner's/Crafty along with 3 pets can get the same kind of result as a seasoned player with the same setup.

No, really you can't.

Skill matters, familiarity with sets matters, reflexes matter, recognition of patterns of play-style (i.e. "I can easily tell so and so is a newbie") matters.

Results do vary. Pretending otherwise is the same sort of logic that tries to lure PvE'ers into IC and PvP during events. Reality is just not like that illusion.

Nogawd

Or by that logic put gear on brand new players and stick them in a vet dlc dungeon or trial. They would still get steamrolled.

To say the gear matters that much is just silly.

the1andonlyskwex

Nogawd wrote: »

Or by that logic put gear on brand new players and stick them in a vet dlc dungeon or trial. They would still get steamrolled.

To say the gear matters that much is just silly.

While I agree that good gear won't help a bad player much, I have definitely noticed that bad gear will hold a competent player back.

One of my biggest frustrations with BGs is that if you play them enough, you eventually land in an MMR tier where you absolutely need gold weapons to compete. The problem with this is that it becomes extremely expensive to experiment with new builds, and experimenting with new builds is one of my favorite things in ESO.

Araneae6537

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Nogawd wrote: »

Or by that logic put gear on brand new players and stick them in a vet dlc dungeon or trial. They would still get steamrolled.

To say the gear matters that much is just silly.

While I agree that good gear won't help a bad player much, I have definitely noticed that bad gear will hold a competent player back.

One of my biggest frustrations with BGs is that if you play them enough, you eventually land in an MMR tier where you absolutely need gold weapons to compete. The problem with this is that it becomes extremely expensive to experiment with new builds, and experimenting with new builds is one of my favorite things in ESO.

Yeah, I wish the MMR was based on wins (my understanding is that it’s based solely on how many you’ve played).

I hate to always ask for changes to BG queues but, as it is, we still effectively don’t have objective BGs. Perhaps the objective queues could be entirely separate even if that means those who want objectives may have to wait longer? I recognize that there it will be impossible to please everyone and I really do appreciate that ZOS is looking at player participation and feedback!

Taggund

Just wondering if there will be any ZOS comment on the random queue situation coming?

ealdwin

Taggund wrote: »

Just wondering if there will be any ZOS comment on the random queue situation coming?

Hopefully, and soon. At some point they need to just test a True Random queue that doesn’t backfill the Deathmatch. Try it for a patch or two to see how it goes.

trackdemon5512

ealdwin wrote: »

Taggund wrote: »

Just wondering if there will be any ZOS comment on the random queue situation coming?

Hopefully, and soon. At some point they need to just test a True Random queue that doesn’t backfill the Deathmatch. Try it for a patch or two to see how it goes.

Yeah. And get back the population willing to do BGs to where it was before. Because all that’s actively left is clearly the Deathmatch-Only crowd.

Bring back all modes at this point and you’ll get more Deathmatchers playing against objective than before the previous test.

Also to be fair to Deathmatchers, for the love of Jone and Jode just make a solo Deathmatch mode. Not team Deathmatch but everyone for themselves. Every other competitive game out there does it to balance out modes.

alexlalas

System is broken - not working as designed. Validation was simple: I queued for RANDOM solo BGs 10 times yesterday. Result: I RANDOMLY played 10 deathmatches.

It is obviously possible that it was by chance. Something about 0.00001% chance of that happening. But it is probably a design flaw.

*I'm not discussing if I like the game mode or not. I had some fun games. I'm just stating it is not working as designed.

renne

ealdwin wrote: »

Taggund wrote: »

Just wondering if there will be any ZOS comment on the random queue situation coming?

Hopefully, and soon. At some point they need to just test a True Random queue that doesn’t backfill the Deathmatch. Try it for a patch or two to see how it goes.

That's literally what we allegedly had before the DM test nd clearly it wasn't working otherwise they wouldn't be doing these tests, because the people who wanted DMs couldn't get ANY of them to come up.

I agree there should be a middle ground though, that allows all kinds of matches to come up equally, not the majority capture the relic, then a few flag games, then maybe one chaosball and no deathmatches like previous, BUT not all deathmatches even though there's apparently the provision for the others games to come up like it apparently is now (on PC - console has not reverted from the DM only queues test).

BrimstoneFox

If I want PvP, I go to Cyrodil or Imp City. The only types of BG that I liked were Capture the Relic and Domination. I didn't mind Chaos Ball, but it's more for tanks and less for DPS because DPS are glass canons (we die too easily). Capture the Relic is my personal favorite because my main toon is built to be quick, agile, and stealthy.
If BG stays Deathmatch, then there is no reason for me to play BG, and if I must play BG/PvP for daily or weekly endeavors, then that will diminish my enjoyment of this game and motivate me to seek my entertainment elsewhere.
Also, on a personal tangent of mine, PvP can be done in any game. It is unnecessary in ESO. Any D&D style, Middle-Earth ripoff game or any mech game or any ancient or modern combat game can run PvP. It is not essential to ESO. What makes The Elder Scrolls the games they are is the depths of the storytelling, especially in terms of the unique cultures of all the characters, the cultural design elements in the destinations, and the content and the context of the plot elements, which are often dramatic or morally thought-provoking. PvE is the ONLY way to get that out of ESO. Any game can do PvP. Please don't ruin ESO by catering only to those who are partial to PvP.

auz

BrimstoneFox wrote: »

If I want PvP, I go to Cyrodil or Imp City. The only types of BG that I liked were Capture the Relic and Domination. I didn't mind Chaos Ball, but it's more for tanks and less for DPS because DPS are glass canons (we die too easily). Capture the Relic is my personal favorite because my main toon is built to be quick, agile, and stealthy.
If BG stays Death Battle, then there is no reason for me to play BG, and if I must play BG/PvP for daily or weekly endeavors, then that will diminish my enjoyment of this game and motivate me to seek my entertainment elsewhere.
Also, on a personal tangent of mine, PvP can be done in any game. It is unnecessary in ESO. Any D&D style, Middle-Earth ripoff game or any mech game or any ancient or modern combat game can run PvP. It is not essential to ESO. What makes The Elder Scrolls the games they are is the depths of the storytelling, especially in terms of the unique cultures of all the characters, the cultural design elements in the destinations, and the content and the context of the plot elements, which are often dramatic or morally thought-provoking. PvE is the ONLY way to get that out of ESO. Any game can do PvP. Please don't ruin ESO by catering only to those who are partial to PvP.

Why cater pvp to pvpers? Makes sense? No?
Why cater pvp to questers and roleplayers? There is literally hundreds of games they can go role play and run monotonous quests in.
I hope they improve accessibility to your favourite modes soon so you and others like you can play at pvp and get your achievements without pvping.

Ezhh

I stopped playing BGs when it was DM only because my interests for BGs at the time was completing certain achievements I can't do in DMs...

I try again now the queues are meant to have changed to allow other modes and... guess what? Still DM only.

It might help if DM only wasn't the default option...

Either way, ten queues in and no sign of other modes, and you only need to look at scoreboards to get an idea of how hard it is to get into them.

So once again, a whole bunch of achievements are pretty much impossible to do.

Amandakill420

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks so much for your participation, patience and feedback while we experimented with only having the Deathmatch game mode available. It was important for us to run this for a few weeks to ensure we had an accurate representation of overall involvement and interest in Battlegrounds during this time.

First, it’s valuable to note the general feedback on this test was quite polarizing. While there were certainly a lot of players that liked only having Deathmatch available, there were just as many that didn’t enjoy it. A frequent complaint we saw, though, was the disappointment that we removed something that is ultimately at the core of our game: the freedom of choice. And in the case of this test, the data appeared to back that up as well. Although we initially saw a very slight bump in participation, it quickly declined and has left Battleground populations in a fairly unhealthy state.

Starting with the launch of Update 32 (November 1 for PC/Mac/Stadia and November 16 for consoles), we’ll be giving you more choices to decide which game mode to queue into depending on if you are playing solo or with a group. These will include:

• Solo Deathmatch
• Solo Random Battleground
• Group Deathmatch
• Group Random Battleground

One thing to keep in mind is the random queue will include all game modes (Flag Games, Land Grabs, and Deathmatch) so the likelihood of getting Deathmatch is going to be higher for those queueing into that game mode, specifically.

We’ll continue to monitor the sentiment and participation rates with Battlegrounds once this rolls out next month, and we’ll let you know if we plan for any additional changes. Thanks again for posting all your thoughts during this time!

It would be SO MUCH better if you removed Deathmatch from the random solo queue.
I didn't play a single battleground during the time when only deathmatch was available. Thought I was finally gonna get a flag or ball game. Got deathmatch.
But anyways thank you for giving back the BGs that are actually fun lol

Kelinmiriel

I'm sure ZOS has statistics on how many of the games are actually coming up deathmatch now. My bet would be that it's 100%, or at least very close, on both the solo and group queues.

ZOS - please look at these numbers.

I tried going in with my group of casual friends, into the "group random" queue. As others have either speculated or experienced - there's nothing random about it. We got deathmatch every time.

So - thanks but no thanks. I'm back out again until there's a REAL option to get a non-deathmatch group battleground.

Also a brief comment to all the people who have gotten this thread so far off course. There are people who prefer deathmatch. There are people who prefer objectives. There are people who are willing to play either deathmatch or objectives, though those seem to be the true minority.

What's not necessary, is so much hatred between the two groups. The hatred has been artificially, and unfortunately, stimulated by the recent experiments in battlegrounds.

Stop hating on each other, and focus on requesting that ZOS give us a choice, please.

Please, ZOS - give us a choice! ESO is a great community, and I hate to see it torn apart like this for no reason. There is room in battlegrounds for two playstyles. Please stop forcing people to play together who don't want to.

Taggund

A statement by ZOS of any kind would be appreciated at this point. Acknowledge it is being reviewed, or indicate it is working as intended and no changes are coming. Just a statement indicating what the view is at this point in time, as the multiple threads, and divisive comments in those threads, are just going to continue.

newtinmpls

So what is the point of having a "non deathmatch" option if it's all just "deathmatch"?

alexlalas

The game mode became unplayable and the related achievements, unobtainable. RIP

Nogawd

I did not play any during the "test" and stopped after not even 10 matches after this update.

They killed BG's for me which was one of my favorite things to do. Thanks.

newtinmpls

So far every time I've tried "random" it's been "deathmatch"

Doesn't look random to me.

wildbear247

I'm actually really enjoying BGs now that there is a solo queue DM only mode. It's the only reason I started playing BGs again. So thank you very much ZOS 😃Now can we talk about some instanced castle siege maps with like 30v30 for those times when Cyrodiil populations are severely unbalanced or performance is lacking?

While I support players having a non-DM queue, it sounds like very few players enjoy non-DM modes and if implemented those queuing for it would have looooong wait times, based on recent ZOS feedback.