ZOS really needs to pick up the slack. People are ultra excited & wanting to switch to New World.

Kiralyn2000

Alucardo wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Voluntary pvp isn't a given - there are ALWAYS ways to force it on someone not flagged. Been there done that in both WoW and RIFT....

Huh? you can't touch another player who isn't flagged for pvp. In WoW you're generally not even in the same instance, so you won't see it.

Hmm. I imagine we (at least I) played before they did the whole instancing/cross-server stuff. So there were all sorts of traps to get people flagged for PvP involuntarily. Or those few PvE quests that flagged you (and there always seemed to be a high-level rogue lurking nearby).

And even without that, the whole "open world pvp" thing screwed stuff up. High-levels slaughtering all the NPCs in a lowbie zone, either just to grief people or in hopes that other high levels would get called in to "defend" the lowbies (that only happened the first couple years, then the other high levels couldn't be bothered. So it was just griefing.) Stupid pvp zergs rampaging back and forth across questing areas. Etc.

No thanks.

Alucardo

The_Lex wrote: »

Amazing the callous attitude that PvEers have toward people who joined this game for PvP, especially from the beginning, but now can’t play because of ZOS’ inability to improve performance. I love PvP however I don’t take anything anything away from people who hate it.

Many even find the notion of pvping "offensive". I remember reading threads about pvers who found duelling in cities "offensive" and they "didn't want to see it". They could care less how pvpers feel, when we're entitled to enjoy the game just as much as they are. It's pretty upsetting. I'd like it if both sides got along and wished the best for each other, but there's way too much resentment for pvp for that to ever happen.

hakan

ADarklore wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

I think it will draw ESO pvp players away. That will hurt ESO, but pvp is not the central focus of ESO and it hasn’t been since early in the game. The pvp in New World seems to be very good and the servers can handle large scale battles. Performance is the main thing holding back ESO pvp. This doesn’t seem to be fixable. So inevitably pvp focused players are going to move on when better options become available.

I don't believe it will hurt ESO as bad as people make it seem. In fact, ZOS could then shift any resources away from PVP and focus them on adding even more PVE content and QoL improvements. I am seriously doubting that a huge number of PVP players are ESO+ subscribers or spend money in the Crown Store... so while the player 'count' may decline, the $$ spent by remaining players would likely remain the same or improve.

im pretty sure pvp players spend way more than overland players considering all the motifs and mounts they have. not to mention a lot of dlc and some trial gear got used in pvp too so they would buy or sub to it.

Also when this game was thriving, they didnt really improved or spend more resources to make it better so why do you think they would do it after pvp players leave?

The_Lex

Alucardo wrote: »

The_Lex wrote: »

Amazing the callous attitude that PvEers have toward people who joined this game for PvP, especially from the beginning, but now can’t play because of ZOS’ inability to improve performance. I love PvP however I don’t take anything anything away from people who hate it.

Many even find the notion of pvping "offensive". I remember reading threads about pvers who found duelling in cities "offensive" and they "didn't want to see it". They could care less how pvpers feel, when we're entitled to enjoy the game just as much as they are. It's pretty upsetting. I'd like it if both sides got along and wished the best for each other, but there's way too much resentment for pvp for that to ever happen.

I couldn’t have said it better myself. Tribalism is gaming is a very real, very dangerous thing.

Kiralyn2000

Alucardo wrote: »

The_Lex wrote: »

Amazing the callous attitude that PvEers have toward people who joined this game for PvP, especially from the beginning, but now can’t play because of ZOS’ inability to improve performance. I love PvP however I don’t take anything anything away from people who hate it.

Many even find the notion of pvping "offensive". I remember reading threads about pvers who found duelling in cities "offensive" and they "didn't want to see it".

I think a lot of the "don't duel in cities" people don't like the extra lag & clutter when they're trying to do city things, rather than actually being "offended" by it.
(although I'm sure there are a few outspoken folks who are)

zelaminator

hakan wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

I think it will draw ESO pvp players away. That will hurt ESO, but pvp is not the central focus of ESO and it hasn’t been since early in the game. The pvp in New World seems to be very good and the servers can handle large scale battles. Performance is the main thing holding back ESO pvp. This doesn’t seem to be fixable. So inevitably pvp focused players are going to move on when better options become available.

I don't believe it will hurt ESO as bad as people make it seem. In fact, ZOS could then shift any resources away from PVP and focus them on adding even more PVE content and QoL improvements. I am seriously doubting that a huge number of PVP players are ESO+ subscribers or spend money in the Crown Store... so while the player 'count' may decline, the $$ spent by remaining players would likely remain the same or improve.

im pretty sure pvp players spend way more than overland players considering all the motifs and mounts they have. not to mention a lot of dlc and some trial gear got used in pvp too so they would buy or sub to it.

Also when this game was thriving, they didnt really improved or spend more resources to make it better so why do you think they would do it after pvp players leave?

We'd have to disagree on that

The_Lex

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

The_Lex wrote: »

Amazing the callous attitude that PvEers have toward people who joined this game for PvP, especially from the beginning, but now can’t play because of ZOS’ inability to improve performance. I love PvP however I don’t take anything anything away from people who hate it.

Many even find the notion of pvping "offensive". I remember reading threads about pvers who found duelling in cities "offensive" and they "didn't want to see it".

I think a lot of the "don't duel in cities" people don't like the extra lag & clutter when they're trying to do city things, rather than actually being "offended" by it.
(although I'm sure there are a few outspoken folks who are)

Every time we have a Mid-Year Mayhem or IC event…every time…the forums are filled with posts declaring that PvP and PvPers are offensive, trash, a minority not worth listening to, a blight, and so on. Once, this happened when Mid-Year Mayhem was mentioned in patch notes. A simple search will confirm what I’m saying is true.

UGotBenched91

ADarklore wrote: »

NylAR wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Based on what I've seen... it is a completely different game. One that's focused on PVP/Group PVE... one review I read stated it was worse than BDO.

Many players here are playing because of the ES lore, but also because it's a game focusing on solo content. I don't play because of lore or because of PVP or group content... I play because of the solo content. I don't believe it is a threat to ESO, if anything, it's a major threat to WOW and FFXIV.

And that's why I see the game discussed daily in guild chats, right? Why I see my favourite ESO streamers streaming their beta daily, right? Why I see youtubers that focused on ESO, starting to upload daily videos of New World, right?

Yeah no... I think they've made some improvements if it used to be as you say, cause it's gaining a lot of traction right now.

It's gaining traction from people who prefer the PVP/Group Content aspect... so clearly ESO isn't designed for them in the first place. I'm not worried about ESO, and in fact if some of the players left here to go play that game, it would probably make ESO even better for many of us. No more constantly complaints in forums about PVP or 'too easy' group content.

Yep just a lot of complaints to make cyrodil a pve zone and why are PvP players killing me kn a PvP zone while I quest! Those are a lot better

BlueRaven

Spurius_Lucilius wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

true open world pvp you can do while questing

Oh, good god. No, never going anywhere near that game.

He didn’t mention unlike ESO you need to be flagged to PVP in that game. We don’t have that here in Cyrodiil.

Maybe someday ESO will have this kind of system in Cyrodiil or IC to appeal to you PVE crowds...

I always had myself set for pacifist in fallout 76, yet there were traps set up by other players to get around it.
I don’t know the “rules” for pvp in new world, but if there is a way to get around it players will find a way.

Alucardo

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

The_Lex wrote: »

Amazing the callous attitude that PvEers have toward people who joined this game for PvP, especially from the beginning, but now can’t play because of ZOS’ inability to improve performance. I love PvP however I don’t take anything anything away from people who hate it.

Many even find the notion of pvping "offensive". I remember reading threads about pvers who found duelling in cities "offensive" and they "didn't want to see it".

I think a lot of the "don't duel in cities" people don't like the extra lag & clutter when they're trying to do city things, rather than actually being "offended" by it.
(although I'm sure there are a few outspoken folks who are)

They actually used the term "offensive" xD
And I mean, if people aren't duelling, there's those running around throwing out orbs and stuff anyway. I don't see the difference. Just let people have their fun. It's not hurting anybody. Anyway, it's going a little off topic.

ArchMikem

NylAR wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Based on what I've seen... it is a completely different game. One that's focused on PVP/Group PVE... one review I read stated it was worse than BDO.

Many players here are playing because of the ES lore, but also because it's a game focusing on solo content. I don't play because of lore or because of PVP or group content... I play because of the solo content. I don't believe it is a threat to ESO, if anything, it's a major threat to WOW and FFXIV.

And that's why I see the game discussed daily in guild chats, right? Why I see my favourite ESO streamers streaming their beta daily, right? Why I see youtubers that focused on ESO, starting to upload daily videos of New World, right?

Yeah no... I think they've made some improvements if it used to be as you say, cause it's gaining a lot of traction right now, especially after their last major update.

I just hope it's all false alarm for now, but it really makes me worried.

You're seeing those youtubers and streamers making videos of that game cause it's the new hotness that will get them views, and maybe they never REALLY cared about ESO to begin with.

hakan

The_Lex wrote: »

Amazing the callous attitude that PvEers have toward people who joined this game for PvP, especially from the beginning, but now can’t play because of ZOS’ inability to improve performance. I love PvP however I don’t take anything anything away from people who hate it.

The_Lex wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

The_Lex wrote: »

Amazing the callous attitude that PvEers have toward people who joined this game for PvP, especially from the beginning, but now can’t play because of ZOS’ inability to improve performance. I love PvP however I don’t take anything anything away from people who hate it.

Many even find the notion of pvping "offensive". I remember reading threads about pvers who found duelling in cities "offensive" and they "didn't want to see it".

I think a lot of the "don't duel in cities" people don't like the extra lag & clutter when they're trying to do city things, rather than actually being "offended" by it.
(although I'm sure there are a few outspoken folks who are)

Every time we have a Mid-Year Mayhem or IC event…every time…the forums are filled with posts declaring that PvP and PvPers are offensive, trash, a minority not worth listening to, a blight, and so on. Once, this happened when Mid-Year Mayhem was mentioned in patch notes. A simple search will confirm what I’m saying is true.

Yeah, ive never understood this and you see it all the time here. They are something else really

rpa

NylAR wrote: »

New world seems to be a whole lot more polished so far than ESO and it's in beta. ...

Well, I actually checked the ordering of the New Gaem via Amazon and looks like I can not. Apparently they don't want €uros from my region, too bad. Have to do with trarnished old pre-beta ESO, while the lucky ones get to enjoy the New Shiny beta.

(Dunno about Steam, in any case I will not buy a multiplayer game requiring a non-Steam account via Steam, no matter how polished.)

Edit: I did participate in the preview back then and it was quite plain compared to any other MMO I've ever tried at the time. Also weird QOL decisions like damage to equipment one has in inventory, levelled quests given to seriously underlevel char and no mounts. No idea if my experience is still any relevant.

Pepegrillos

I think at this point some kind of massive exodus from pvpers is inevitable and there is nothing ZOS can do about it. And it is that way because if you ask around, the main reason people will swap to NW is performance, not their combat system, build variety or any other 'amazing' systems that NW has (because frankly, it barely has any, it's pretty barebones).

Performance in pvp has been bad for years and in some cases seems to be getting worse (just stroll through the main Cyro campaign).

I also don't see ZOS fretting about it. Pvp players stopped being the target audience of this game very early, as soon as they realized that the original idea of ESO as a primarily pvp game had failed (in population and financial terms).

Soulshine

I watched a live stream of New World beta yesterday.

Environments look very pretty, game play was very smooth, no crashes, etc.

That said, I didn't care for the Pirates of the Caribbean type of feel I saw from the towns, let alone the cosmetics / armour get-ups I saw on everyone running about, let alone the cartoonish looking weapons some had (hammer in particular was just ridiculous! lol), no mounts, huge maps... lots of "go fetch-WoW-type quests" ....snzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Crafting seemed interesting, clearly sandboxy type stuff - frankly, no doubt something that could get boring after the new wears off... so again, snzzzzzzzzzzzzz

PvP didn't really seem all the effective and lack of proper self heals on most of the people I saw seemed odd; unless those become available to players at higher levels, it wasn't so clear atm.

All together, didn't strike me as particularly all that interesting game, frankly. But even if it appeals to more people than anticipated I highly doubt it will impact ESO so much that we would suddenly have some mass exodus of players. Many new game - hype stuff always happens, and in the end we still keep growing.

TLDR: New World hype is not "doom for ESO"

Jaimeh

It's new so of course people will want to check it out and population will wax and wane like every time something new comes out. I don't think anything can beat ESO's combat or lore however. If devs figure out a way to improve performance without continuously cutting corners and butchering the game (ie invest in better infrastructure and programers) it will be up there at the top. Having said that, it's good to have variety and it's good to have competition, both for players not to burn out on something and for developers not to get compacent and to improve.

The_Lex

Make no mistake, New World is not doom for ESO PvP. ZOS’ inability or unwillingness to fix performance (which is continually getting worse) is the real reason.

M_Volsung

I had to go look up New World, I'd never heard of it until reading this thread.

tonyblack

I tried this game and it feels like it’s on still alpha. A lot of features are missing. I was bored after 4 hours. Pve quests are boring and unrewarding (unless you flag for pvp), game lack any good means of transportation (mounts, tp points) and you forced to walk great distances to finish quest/return to settlement or use rare consumable, combat feels kinda awkward and way below eso or ff14 with so few skill options and fewer skill slots, game also lack high end pve content with only 6 dungeons and nothing greater. I feel like this game is hyped like any other new AAA game, but I doubt it will live up to expectations of many players. Apart from some pvp population it doesn’t pose any threat to eso.

hundergrn

A game that has been in alpha/beta and pushed back multiple times with 1/100th of the content feels more polished than ESO? No no... tell me more!

Rant below. In all seriousness New World feels like a fun game that shows a lot of promise but still falls short in many areas to call it polished. PVP has the typical early mmo troubles of easy trolling, camping, weapon imbalances. PVE has issues with animations, encumberance, hit boxes, mob ai. Economy seems like it will be a wash due to loot tables, crafting progression, randomness of crafting, harvesting node deployment, etc.

From playing New World... Its not as polished as the initial shine it portrays... the Combat feels tights bur there are animation and timing inconsistencies that betray its initially snappy combat.

Combat cues are not there for tanks, they either have to hold block before the mob animation starts or take the hit.

PVP combat is filled with troubles. From PVP enemy factions camping and trolling the PVE/PVP swap at all settlements (can toggle at any settlement regardless of faction control, with no recourse for hugging the settlement line.

Weapon types are not balanced... hatchet and musket way out perform almost everything else in early to mid progression. Flame staff is woefully under par. Hit detection leaves much to be desired (using terrain as a defensive in close range leaves mobs free to attack you through walls but you be out of luck).

Terrain traversing performs fairly well but there is still plenty of falling through the map, getting stuck in terrain, un harvestable nodes, entities spawning in terrain, etc.

Server stability leaves much to be desired. Player lag favors the one lagging heavily in pvp. Similar to ESO, the server will rubberband their attacks ignoring animation delay, timing delays, etc and wipe you with multiple hits under a second. The wars that have been attempted, just crashed the instance and left the defenders the winner with no ability to continue/reinitiate the war. This leaves the planning, prep, cost wasted for the attacking party as it requires much set up to go to war.

Crafting is about the only thing that feels polished, but it lags heavily behind character progression as the loot tables and trade skills fall behind overworld/leveled drops very quickly. Covenant gear is way to easy to acquire, leaving the rest behind.

Harvesting in overworld tends to be a chore, many needed nodes are sparse, loot tables require using moderate to high buffs to even have a chance of gathering rare tier crafting mats regardless of Trade level/Equipment mods.

Group questing is a flipping mess. Doing Settlement and covenant quests with a group is a flip of someone not getting progression on a quest but someone that doesnt have it gets you the credit. No quest share! Questing as a group requires much delegation, wp placing and planning per quest.

UI has much to be desired... the design interface blatantly shows it was designed for console/TV. Even on a super ultra wide monitor: journal and chat fills the screen and becomes distracting. Map compass is too condensed in comparison to tracking and quest icons (getting your harvesting skills up clutters the compass to the point of unreadable).

tonyblack

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Voluntary pvp isn't a given - there are ALWAYS ways to force it on someone not flagged. Been there done that in both WoW and RIFT....

Huh? you can't touch another player who isn't flagged for pvp. In WoW you're generally not even in the same instance, so you won't see it.

Hmm. I imagine we (at least I) played before they did the whole instancing/cross-server stuff. So there were all sorts of traps to get people flagged for PvP involuntarily. Or those few PvE quests that flagged you (and there always seemed to be a high-level rogue lurking nearby).

And even without that, the whole "open world pvp" thing screwed stuff up. High-levels slaughtering all the NPCs in a lowbie zone, either just to grief people or in hopes that other high levels would get called in to "defend" the lowbies (that only happened the first couple years, then the other high levels couldn't be bothered. So it was just griefing.) Stupid pvp zergs rampaging back and forth across questing areas. Etc.

No thanks.

You can avoid pvp entirely, you’ll just get much less xp.

DreamyLu

I tend to agree with @Tandor . I remember how loads of my friends (from my main MMO; am too new to ESO to tell here) were excited at Archeage Unchained, especially the PvPers. And look what happened: The 1stweek, all swapped to AU and I had to hear how everything is so beautiful there. Two weeks later, the first critics started. One month later, I saw my friends coming back to our main MMO one after the other. And now? They're all back and have uninstalled AU. It's like it has never existed.

Soooo... Before to get worried and/or too excited, let's relax: give it some time and see how it goes within the next weeks/months.

AdamLAD

We have said for years Zos needs to be better in every department. Yet they somehow make things worse. They probably do try, but are physically incapable of doing anything remotely good. If you give ESO the care and attentiveness SMITE devs give there game. Im absolutely certain ESO would absolutely dominate in every department. If something is broken or unbalanced within a week or so is fixed. We wait months for even MORE BUGS

KovalskyNestor

No. I don't play ESO for the sake of playing MMO, I play it because I enjoy it. You are also treating like people will drop their invesment in this game just for some other MMO.

Ashryn

New World has two problems that turned me off: NOT Solo friendly and you need Windows 10 to even think about it. Plenty of people aren't going to go out and purchase a new operating system (and possibly a new computer) when their computer is still a workhorse and runs ESO just fine! I'm not interested in content that you can not play Solo.

waterfairy

KovalskyNestor wrote: »

No. I don't play ESO for the sake of playing MMO, I play it because I enjoy it. You are also treating like people will drop their invesment in this game just for some other MMO.

this. I've invested years and some money into this game...not going to suddenly jump ship for new shiny

OutLaw_Nynx

I don’t think it is fair to compare the two games.

TequilaFire

Just wait till Windows 11. lol
I will play ESO on console and NW on PC if it is any good.

ADarklore

hakan wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

I think it will draw ESO pvp players away. That will hurt ESO, but pvp is not the central focus of ESO and it hasn’t been since early in the game. The pvp in New World seems to be very good and the servers can handle large scale battles. Performance is the main thing holding back ESO pvp. This doesn’t seem to be fixable. So inevitably pvp focused players are going to move on when better options become available.

I don't believe it will hurt ESO as bad as people make it seem. In fact, ZOS could then shift any resources away from PVP and focus them on adding even more PVE content and QoL improvements. I am seriously doubting that a huge number of PVP players are ESO+ subscribers or spend money in the Crown Store... so while the player 'count' may decline, the $$ spent by remaining players would likely remain the same or improve.

im pretty sure pvp players spend way more than overland players considering all the motifs and mounts they have. not to mention a lot of dlc and some trial gear got used in pvp too so they would buy or sub to it.

Also when this game was thriving, they didnt really improved or spend more resources to make it better so why do you think they would do it after pvp players leave?

It's thriving NOW, what are you talking about? They are adding new servers, improved graphics for new consoles, etc. They are doing this all the while PVP players are a minority in the game. Furthermore, as I said, I seriously doubt a "huge number" of PVP players are spending a lot of money in the game. If a player is PVP-centric, they don't care about motifs, or mounts, or XP scrolls, costumes, etc... the only thing they do is log in and PVP. No questing, no crafting, etc. Sure there are those who do both PVE and PVP... but I'm speaking of those who ONLY PVP.

However, for PVE-focused players, many of us enjoy the RPG aspect of this game and to us, motifs, costumes, mounts, crafting, etc... ARE important to us.

AuraoftheAzureSea

As a former ESO player and forum lurker, I've had my eye on some of the upcoming MMOs (e.g., AoC, New World) but I agree with what a few other posters have said: I wouldn't be too worried for ESO.

Even if I did give them a chance, I'd try them out for totally different reasons. I came to ESO for the lore, in spite of it being an MMO. I've played MMOs in the past and I find them to be grindy, addicting and they typically make me focus too much on the meta aspects while I prefer immersion (a huge part of why I love the Elderscrolls series in the first place). So ESO was extremely unique for me, compared to other MMOs I've tried out in the past. TBF I never played WoW, but I played FFXIV and Eden Eternal a fair bit.

Even *if* I picked up a new MMO, ESO could still get me back as a customer if it got its act together. I just like the world. If New World takes away PvP players, maybe they'll finally consider balancing them separately or stop putting their eggs in too many baskets.