Addons which invade people privacy

deleted008293

Hello Zennimax, I want to bring this to your attention that some addons out there are literally invading others people privacy or are used to further benefit a certain user in detriment of others and althrough addons do not fall into your responsibility I believe it is still something you should look into.

While most addons only benefit the user alone, there are some addons that even if you are not using or installing them, they will affect you and other users in one way or another. One such addons was Custom Titles Addon which to this date no action was taken to be taken offline. And I'm sure there are some other addons out there that affect the morality, fairplay and gameplay in one way or another.

So my question to you, If I am not using a specific addon then why I am being forced to accept its existance and abusive use by other users in this community?

Custom Titles Addons - this addon will NOT function unless other users are installing it. For that reason the creators decided to inject it through various popular addons just like malware. Problem is most people won't mind it and won't bother to uninstall it. So a new player who happens to end up in a raid group with people abusing this addon might think that those people are "special" or "end game" which is nothing but promoting bullying and narcissism. In fact few years ago I was asked by some users to install this addon in order to target or bully other players from our raid team by changing their names without their approval or by showing off in front of others. Back then when addon was only distributed among a certain group of friends.

Group loot notifier
For the past few months alone, I was often asked by various people from my raid teams about my loot, and althrough I did not shared my loot with anyone, I did not agreed to share it and I was also in need for it for my sticker book, a side character or even my main character, some people using such addons always jumped on me and beg or asked for my loot which I consider to be a bit immoral. I'm generally a very selfless person and I don't say no to people even if that is affecting my well being and because of this many people abused me in the past in one way or another or by stealing my loot in that matter. My question to you is how do you respond when your raid leader or your guild master or an officer is asking for your loot table? Ofc you prioritize them first before you because you try to build yourself a good relationship within the guild etc... and then months later surprise! Months or even years later you are still missing some gear pieces which you simply cannot obtain because of bad loot table or because you are not accepted to join a specific raid or raid team or you get pushed out or raids goes south and realize that if those people would not abuse you you would be able to have not one but 3+ sets for your sticker book alone. And if you tell them NO sorry what happens is that some will start begging, push to offer you ingame money for your loot which is another thing that made me feel bad because I'm always offering my loot for free and I find it to be immoral to charge someone 100k or 1M for some rare weapon. Or people become toxic or go as far as removing you from your teams because you are not a "player" and you are not a resource for their egoistic needs.

FantasticFreddie

Sounds like you need new friends.
I have no idea what the custom title addon is. I doubt it allows you to change someone else's title, however.
Loot snoop is not an issue 99% of the time. I present to you the radical option of typing "Sorry I am gear farming myself, I'll link whatever I don't need" and then ignoring any asks.
Neither of these issues are actual addon issues. You just need better teams. I've been playing over 2 years and have not had one single bad incident with either of these addons.

Platanutre

The 2nd Add-on last part seems more of a rant agains't players that don't take no for an answer and beg till it gets their way. Reminds me of kids tantrumming till their parents just give in to stop the annoyance. If you get an inferno siroria and you want it for your alt, and somebody bids 300k, it's on you if you like 300k for it or not. I usually too give out items for free and the add-on helps me more often than not. People whisper me stuff they need before raid ends, so it's just a quick "hey im jumping at X" and boom done or people straight thank me because they don't remember they got something, also happens to me. Overall it has helped more than done harm, in my case i haven't gotten any tantrums because "waaahhhh i need it i need it i need it". Group loot is one of those things that should be in the base game imo instead of offloaded to a more unstable and buggy version in an add-on.

lolo_01b16_ESO

How is Custom Titles invading your privacy? It only changes what the people who installed the addon sees on their screen. If you don't use the addon you'll just see some regular ingame title.
Sure, it's part of many popular addons, but noone forces you to use those popular addons and if you want to use them but don't want to see custom titles, you can simply remove that part from the code.

Btw. if you download free software that is created by a random individual on the internet, it's always a good idea to have a look at the code to check if it does what you want it to do before you use it. Or if you can't code well enough to do that, try to find a friend who does.

deleted008293

Not getting asked for your loot is a much more pleasant situation than saying no to a friend or raid buddy... Fyi I'm farming some gear for years and to this date I was unable to complete my builds because I was always putting others ahead of me. Also some of the raid mates will no longer continue to raid as long as they got what they wanted and having 11 people loot table is better than just yours fyi. [snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Elana

I used to hate loot snooping addons with a passion, I still think they should not be a thing, but now I draw amusement from offering answers such as: "no, you won't get it but you would have if you waited till I offered" and then watching them get indignant, defensive or flat out outraged. For the record, I offer all gear I don't need.

Greevir

Removing Group Loot Notifier wouldn't change anything. You will still get whispers from people asking if you got x or x. The only difference is you will get to be a liar when you do get a piece and tell them no instead of simply telling them "yes, but I need it myself".

Sanguinor2

If your "friend" drops you as soon as she has to choose between you and some random opportunity I´d blame the "friend" and not the opportunity. If it wasnt this one sooner or later another situation would have happened with the same outcome.

FantasticFreddie

nordmarian wrote: »

Custom Title is a narcissist elitist way to show of fin front of others. But in order to have your addon work and in order to brag in other faces, the other part of community MUST install that addon as well. For that sole reason the addon is installed in some very selfish immoral and deceptive ways to end user...

One of my friends got deceived by a group of people abusing this addon and we had raid drama for the sole fact that my friend considered that this group was worth damaging our friendship for. My friend through those people are employees of zos or some really good people at the game or nice people and through she might get the easy way up top by simply going with them instead of joining another raid team together when that toxic team decided to insult me and remove me from their team by jumping on my friend.

So even if you do not use this addon it still affect your moral one way or another.

Like I said-- you need better friends.
Does this custom let you create your own title, or what? What, exactly, does it do to cause all this drama?

Elana

Greevir wrote: »

Removing Group Loot Notifier wouldn't change anything. You will still get whispers from people asking if you got x or x. The only difference is you will get to be a liar when you do get a piece and tell them no instead of simply telling them "yes, but I need it myself".

Never have I received a whisper asking if I got such and such piece, only whispers claiming that I have and they want it. Most people are polite and they get the polite answer.

The easiest and the least intrusive way would be to state at the beginning or the end of the run what you're looking for, or asking in group chat: did anyone get x or y. Most people will happily offer the loot.

That said, I do believe there is a marginal benefit to loot snoopers - some people can't be bothered to check if they have stuff other people need, even if they don't need it themselves, and direct whisper would be the way of prompting them for a trade.

perfiction

Don't have any opinion on custom titles - didn't have any experiences with this addon.

When it comes to loot log... It's funny that you want ZOS to ban useful addons just because responding "no" and ignoring someone ingame is too much of a hassle to you. Addons are not the problem, misbehaving people are - ignore button is the way to deal with that.

"Addon is invading my privacy" argument is wrong as well because addons are not to blame here, ZOS "invades your privacy" by sending loot information to all group members. You can have 0 addons installed and write simple script in the chat box with /script command to display that information. It's not visible in default UI (which is bare-bones anyway and ZOS tries to implement some QOL addons into base game with each update), but it's there and every group member has that data.

JoDiMageio

I hate Group Loot Notifier because honestly, the entitlement that it creates in some people is extremely off-putting, and people don't even let you finish an activity before they are whispering you, sometimes to the point of it being harassment.

Plus, they can still see the loot of people who don't have the addon, which is problematic. If it only showed the loot of others who have the addon, I would already be more okay with it, but being forced to be part of the functionality of an addon I don't have is frustrating.

I much prefer when people simply state that they are looking for something at the beginning of the activity, and then let people decide to offer it up or not at the end. If they want to offer money for it, that's on them.

That being said, if you cannot set your own boundaries and learn to say no to people, then that is on you, and it is not "stealing your loot" as you put it. It has nothing to do with being a nice person - you can say no and still be nice. And if guilds are punishing you for this, then change guilds. They don't get to be bullies simply because. On the contrary, most of the time I have found my guilds friendly and helpful, especially when you are trying to equip a toon for a specific role, and even more so to new players who are looking to gear up.

Elana

JoDiMageio wrote: »

Plus, they can still see the loot of people who don't have the addon, which is problematic. If it only showed the loot of others who have the addon, I would already be more okay with it, but being forced to be part of the functionality of an addon I don't have is frustrating.

This. If it would share the data just between the players with the addon, it would be a no-issue for me.

deleted008293

As far as this goes one day we might end up having people spy on our private chats... just saying.

FantasticFreddie

Ok, I looked up this addon....
https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1334-CustomTitles.html
Short version: There's a process, and you have to meet requirements to get a custom title.
I call bs on OP

JoDiMageio

nordmarian wrote: »

As far as this goes one day we might end up having people spy on our private chats... just saying.

Lol... privacy on the interwebs. What a notion! xD

Platanutre

nordmarian wrote: »

As far as this goes one day we might end up having people spy on our private chats... just saying.

that's a strawman now, come on.

colossalvoids

1. Can always disable, simple as that.
2. "Sorry mate, need one myself/already bound"

Insane, right.

InvitationNotFound

I do not really see the issue here.

While i certainly have custom titles on through some addons, I simply do not care (don't get me wrong, it shouldn't be that way). I never cared for any titles and such things.
If they add a title to you without asking and that is insulting you in some way (or it is an insulting title), it certainly is another issue. Not sure how the ToS is in this regard when it comes to harassment.

In regards of your loot addon:
I do not see any issue with it either. If you run with randoms just say "sorry, need that one myself". Never had any issue there.

If you run in a guild group or otherwise organized raid it usually makes sense to share the items with the people who actually need them for their build as it will help the group overall. Probably the last thing that matters in such a context is a sticker book. I would this even consider as normal. I've given away plenty of items to other guild / raid members because they were in need of it for the group or otherwise an actual build.

And yes, I would also not like to run with you in a group if you just use an item for your sticker book instead of giving the item to someone who really is in need of it for an actual (group) build. I would consider this behavior as quite selfish to be honest.

And yes, I already offered money for an item to someone (not wanting money as I do not care and consider this to be normal). It is their choice what they prefer: saying no, using it for the sticker book or actually using it.

So overall, while I understand that i can be annoying, I think it has more benefits than disavantages.

deleted008293

The problem is that some end game people and guilds tend to get quite toxic if you tell them no on several occasions. Or brag or complain. I did received complains like why do you need that dagger or destro staff because you never play a damage dealer. Some people do not understand boundaries.

I'm still promoting the idea that such addon is working against some of us. Not once some of the end game raid buddies I had the pleasure to raid with in some teams vanished as soon as they got their beloved loot and were never to be seen again. That is the problem. We group for some farm raids and then you put others above you and at the end of the day you realize you didn't got anything while helping everyone and... also get pushed out of the team.

Sanguinor2

nordmarian wrote: »

As far as this goes one day we might end up having people spy on our private chats... just saying.

Zos does have all our chatlogs soooooo yeah. The only way to get complete privacy on the internet is to not use the internet.

Lintashi

First addon is not invading your privacy in any way. As for second one, I am tired of people who cannot place a person in ignore list, and just go on. Instead, such people go and vent their frustration on the forums here, making small issue seem gigantic. I use loot notifier addon. I never asked anyone for any item, except my friend, who also uses this addon, and we always share our loot. It is extremely convenient, when you can see, which items are new, and which you already have, the moment you get them. After 6 key run, he can just say what exact weapons and armor he needs, without showing all loot in trade window. There were some people, who asked me for particular weapons that I needed myself when I got them, but simple "no, I need it myself" always sufficed. And people asking, were always polite, never ranting or smth, unlike many people who post about such addons here every other week.

JoDiMageio

colossalvoids wrote: »

1. Can always disable, simple as that.
2. "Sorry mate, need one myself/already bound"

Insane, right.

While I completely agree with you, your second solution sometimes does not work, and sometimes the individual does not respect your refusal. That is the problem. People need to learn to accept a simple, polite "no" as an answer.

InvitationNotFound

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

nordmarian wrote: »

As far as this goes one day we might end up having people spy on our private chats... just saying.

Zos does have all our chatlogs soooooo yeah. The only way to get complete privacy on the internet is to not use the internet.

You should be careful here. You already have a little spy in your pocket quite often if you use any mobile phone... So no privacy there either.

FantasticFreddie

From just a couple days ago, when Arx was the pledge I got the Medusa shock staff and had this interaction:
"Hey can I get that lightning staff"
"No, sorry, I actually need it. I have boots if you need tho?"
"No I got those. Do you need this hat?"
"Yes please!"

Simple, respectful, exchange. If I had not in fact needed the staff I would have traded it without issue, and people appreciate that.

partyhead

I am a stickerbook collector and currently at #1 accoording to eso-armory
https://eso-armory.com/armory

When someone at the end of the trial/dungeon doesn't link items and has items I still need I do ask them as polite as possible if I can have them (sometimes a bit too quickly I must admit, but always after killing last boss).

Then 1 of 4 things happens:
1. Most of the time I get the reply that they would gladly give it because they don't need it. (items I wouldn't have gotten without lootlog)
2. The person doesn't reply, I then ask one more time if they saw my msg. If they still don't reply its fine and I conclude that they don't want to give it or they do reply and mostly give it to me (or I'm too late and its deconned)
3. The person says no, then its all fine and I won't continue to ask.
4. The person doesn't speak English, this means its over quite quickly too.

In most trials with people I don't know, there is only 2 or 3 that link items they don't need, it's a waste of items to not ask the other 9-10.

colossalvoids

JoDiMageio wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

1. Can always disable, simple as that.
2. "Sorry mate, need one myself/already bound"

Insane, right.

While I completely agree with you, your second solution often does not work, and sometimes the individual does not respect your refusal. That is the problem. People need to learn to accept a simple, polite "no" as an asnwer.

It's not an add-on developer issue though nor the add-on itself to blame there. People can "abuse" CMX seeing how much more dps they've done compared to someone else, or can go pressure some player for not using "any random add-on" because they feel like it's okay, same with inspecting esologs etc. Actually the last one is more invasive for casual players but it's semi official tool still.

Gladly there's ignore / report options for all those situations.

JamieAubrey

Yeah cause my Custom Title "Test Name Please Ignore" makes me a bully

tuxon

Here we go People complaining about group loot notifier What a joke

deleted008293

The main problem is that you are not that player overly emotional, often marginalized, bullied, or targeted by the community... so saying no will not help your cause there.

And I'm sick of it... I'm always there in all those farming teams giving people my loot or training teams and help people train and progress from vmol to vmol hm or vcr0 to vcr3 over several months and there we go people get toxic or greedy and steal your place and I get left behind then they come and brag to my face how they got no death vmols trifectas gryphonheart or godslayer.

If a person don't speak english some actualy use google translator too.

You just start a MMO game together with someone, IRL friend or someone you met some months or years back in the game. Then you two end up in one decent raid team after all your former teams were mediocre at best, wipe fests. And your friend join this team and see everyone using a custom title showing off etc and tells u in ur face how she do not want to raid with you anymore and all that. But you continue to be friends outside that, continue to watch movies, or do quests. But then here comes a time when ur friend no longer have time for you but have time to raid in the team you found for you two. Blaming me or her is not what I wanted to point out. What I want to point out is that without her approval those people bragged in her face, put in her face how they are a good team and I am a bad person or a bad player and had me pushed out.

What you guys still do not understand is that addon does not work on its own. So for example if I would be the one making such addon and I would edit my character appearance or name or all that. It would not work the way I intended to. And in this particular case to show off in front of others. For that sole matter my audience, the target, the victim, the bullied, the crush, etc, must also install the addon so he or she can see how I'm such a big player. For this reason the addon is sneakily distributed along other addons. Problem is would you actually spend the time to erase the addon from every addon folder you are downloading from the web each few weeks or months? Probably no. Im sure none of u got your friendship or relationship damaged by a mmo before. So do not judge me like that but judge the addon itself its uses its missuses its advantages its disadvantages and all such.

On a similar note we also got lately the ESO LOGS which will record all your actions during a raid literally exposing your player skills in public. So for example if you are a person with some defects, physical or mental, or simply you are not good at the game, or your build isn't the best, this will allow others to judge you one way or another, correctly or not... and often have repercursions as people will often get judged and pushed out of groups based on longs alone. Even if its just one log. For example in my last raid one of the healers had some bad performances among some others too. Yet we removed only the healer from group which affected her a lot, we found out that althrough healer died and healing per seconds was terrible it was actually a bunch of others problems such as mechanics not played correctly by the group, wrong cp or gear issues on key players, which in the end it fall upon one person alone. The player who was new to the group.

Raids started to become less of an enjoyement and more of a job lately. We need a new build each new patch etc and those issues above make the raiding even less pleasant.

FantasticFreddie

partyhead wrote: »

I am a stickerbook collector and currently at #1 accoording to eso-armory
https://eso-armory.com/armory

When someone at the end of the trial/dungeon doesn't link items and has items I still need I do ask them as polite as possible if I can have them (sometimes a bit too quickly I must admit, but always after killing last boss).

Then 1 of 4 things happens:
1. Most of the time I get the reply that they would gladly give it because they don't need it. (items I wouldn't have gotten without lootlog)
2. The person doesn't reply, I then ask one more time if they saw my msg. If they still don't reply its fine and I conclude that they don't want to give it or they do reply and mostly give it to me (or I'm too late and its deconned)
3. The person says no, then its all fine and I won't continue to ask.
4. The person doesn't speak English, this means its over quite quickly too.

In most trials with people I don't know, there is only 2 or 3 that link items they don't need, it's a waste of items to not ask the other 9-10.

See I would never even think to link random stuff like a Navintaas dagger or a Light speaker greatsword. More than a few times people have whispered me about the useless gear and I am always 100% happy to get it out of my inventory.