PTS Update 29 - Feedback Thread for Champion Point System

Disturbed_One

Secondsz wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Secondsz wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Secondsz wrote: »

Installed the PTS and re-activated forums account just to leave feedback on the new CP system.

My partner already stopped playing after learning about the new CP system a couple of weeks ago, being told that she can no longer have all her crafting and gathering perks with CP550 and would have to grind out another 300 levels to get them back, she just threw her hands in the air and said F this game. I feel like this is going to be a very common response to CP 2.0 for overworld casuals.

Currently CP910 on live, I would need to grind out to CP1200 to start feeling 'competitive' and slotting 4 fully leveled stars and still missing A LOT of the passives.

Let me be clear, I am a FAN of grinding usually and enjoy it, but this grind is daunting and undesirable even to me (someone who grinding BDO and maplestory and runescape finds this new grind ridiculous).

Its too high.

No new player will want to play this game if it remains this way.

The vertical progression needs to be reigned in to MAX OUT at CP1200 (which most new people and casuals will still run from).

Even with the increased exp now extending to 1800, the grind is too much and people will feel like they cannot fairly compete in PVP or PVE until reaching that, which is ridiculous.

Let me be clear, at 900CP you will not be 'competitive'.

You will be missing at least another 10% in dmg increase by reaching CP1200. You would likely gain another 5%~ going from 1200-1800.

It is a ridiculous grind and a game breaking level of diference in PVP.

The vertical progression should COMPLETELY STOP by CP1200 (i'd argue lower but they never will).

It should be OPTIONS and horizontal progression from 1200+, like was originally discussed in the reveal video.

Whoever thought this was a good idea needs to lose their job, honestly speechless that it could progress so far as an 'idea' in any company wanting to retain its customer base.

I was watching a content creator go through and do some parsing on the PTS. There was about a 30% difference between No-CP and Max-CP 75k no-cp, 100k cp (on stamplar)

On Live currently, there is about a 100% difference (55k no-cp, 110k cp). (Magicka classes were nerfed LESS)

So, low CP players get a pretty significant boost to DPS, due to the increased stats at the bottom. Top tier DPS will see a little bit of a nerf (although some of this will be mitigated by new sets, buffs in group content, etc). The damage ramped up quick, so that just below 1000 CP, you had most of your damage passives (your 4 slottables, easily the most powerful of the stars, and a couple of others), and then it was only minor gains to about 1200-1300 where you had ALL of your main stat increases... then from there it was off-stat and off-healing.

Also, because of the changes to the curve, your CP gain from 800-1800 is going to be like 4x as fast as what you have now on Live. You also have 2 double XP events happening back to back with Jester's and Anniversary. The leveling is going to fly by with those combations.

I've also played BDO, only briefly admittingly, and the reason I quit was because of the grind. Leveling past 60 in BDO is complete and utter insanity, and I feel comparing that to ESO is disingenuous. With enlightenment in ESO, they're giving you at least 1 CP a day in that 800-1200 range just for doing a single random normal. Without even "grinding", especially during the double XP events, you can easily gain 4-6 CP a day, with grinding 12-20 (or more) if you wanted. I'm stockpiling my master writs from doing my daily writs. I'll be able to easily gain dozens of CP from them (and I'm at 2000+, so I still have the 50% penalty)

That said, I'm going to trust the content creator who's put out dozens of builds, has all the "end-game" content cleared and titles, and when they say that 95% of the vertical progression is done before you hit CP1000, I believe them. I came to a similar conclusion myself. (Now, it WAS ~1200 BEFORE they made the changes to some of the stars)

Think about what you just said for a minute, for casuals and non-hardcore players. 1 free CP a day would take over a year (assuming they are even 810 atm). Assuming working or casual players get 2-3 hours a day to play at best, that is a ridiculous grind investment they need to make to continue to be equal to hardcore players for CP PVP and endgame trials.

Exp is 4x faster than it currently is, but its still ABSURDLY SLOW from 810-1200 to get back to being competitive, It is the equivelnt of grinding roughly 500>810 on live, its a BIG grind, even hardcore 5-10 hour a day players would be looking at weeks of grind. How is that appealing or acceptable to anyone is beyond me.

You will be competitive at less than 1000 CP. If you're already at 810, you are likely already very close to being there.

Player skill is much much more important than your CP. A skilled player at CP800 will beat a less skilled player at CP1200 every single time in the next update. The power delta between those will be measured in the single percentage points.

That 1 free CP is from literally doing a 10 minute random normal or a 15-minute random BG. Or go spend 20 minutes questing, you'll use up your enlightenment as you kill stuff. Do 5 alchemy master writs, you'll use up your enlightenment. For the rest of your time, you'll still be earning CP.

This myth that you will need 1500/1800/2100 CP (I've seen all these numbers stated) to do end-game PVP or PVE needs to be put to rest. You are talking about fractional, marginal gains beyond CP1000, where your skill as a player is going to matter way more than your CP level. Way more.

I get that everybody "wants to be max level" but I, for one, am happy, ecstatic, joyous, that I will be able to have some sense of progression again for the first time in years... even if it is extremely tiny. I will actually earn a CP and go "Hey, I can go spend that now" after years of being at the "cap"

Congratulations for being in the extreme vast minority of players.

I've already tested it all day, spending different amount of CP for different level simulations. It is roughly the percentages I reported. That is not minor and not a margin skill can make up for.

I did this through using the character im comfortable with and dont make mistakes with as well as creating a new 'fool proof' build to keep it simple and compare the numbers.

It is not a myth, PVP will be an advantage to people up to and beyond 1800 (where it truly becomes more about player skill.

Extra resources, regen, healing and damage from passives you cannot max before that while maintaining your slotted pvp skills at max. Let alone having others levels to swap in situationally (how the system was presented to us).

Assuming people grind for 20CP a day (who has time), that's 5 days per 100 levels. For a CP810 player, that is 20 days of straight grinding to be 'competitive' and relatively fairly matched for PVE.

Then another 30 days for PVP players to reach 1800 to be fairly matched (actually longer, it will take more time to grind those 20 levels a day from 1200-1800).

That is already almost 2 months of straight grinding for PVP players to JUST BE ON EVEN FOOTING (and not even 100% even). Assuming they dont miss a single day, get bored of it or quit.

*And this is all assuming we have permanent 2x exp even* Sad. Really sad.

The only easily implemented and palatable solution here is to:

A. Scale our exp earned to the CP we should be in the new system (including those well above CP 2k)
B. Scale back the vertical progression for PVP down to 1200 so that there is 0 advantage gained and just alternatives. (still an unwanted, un-asked for and tedious grind back to end game parity).

I will no longer respond to your attempts to maintain a performance advantage over 99% of the player base at the expense of tested feedback that affects the many, not the few.

Low level players are getting a huge boost. There dps is going to go up!

To say otherwise is a lie.

the demands saying "it's the only palatable solution" how arrogant do you have to be to think your opinion is end-all be all of this

It's a damn game, play the game, get better at game. Who gives a **** about a 1% difference

FluffyDoom

@tmbrinks
Your skill at doing the tests and analysis along with well written commentary is refreshing and gives me some hope. I appreciate all that work you've done to make sure ZOS knows of issues (ex meticulous dissassembly).

I do have a question for you, I was wondering if you've mathed it out yet as to whether it's faster to grind up CP before the patch or after for those that are above 1800 .... yet still want to grind that higher.

Asking for a console friend *winks*

tmbrinks

FluffyDoom wrote: »

@tmbrinks
Your skill at doing the tests and analysis along with well written commentary is refreshing and gives me some hope. I appreciate all that work you've done to make sure ZOS knows of issues (ex meticulous dissassembly).

I do have a question for you, I was wondering if you've mathed it out yet as to whether it's faster to grind up CP before the patch or after for those that are above 1800 .... yet still want to grind that higher.

Asking for a console friend *winks*

Oh, it'll be way quicker AFTER the patch.

I'm at CP2006 right now, currently, each CP costs about 1.5 million XP. After the patch, each will cost about half, 750k XP.

FluffyDoom

Good to know, thank you !!

FinrodMacBeorn

tmbrinks wrote: »

You will be competitive at less than 1000 CP. If you're already at 810, you are likely already very close to being there.

Player skill is much much more important than your CP. A skilled player at CP800 will beat a less skilled player at CP1200 every single time in the next update. The power delta between those will be measured in the single percentage points.

...

This myth that you will need 1500/1800/2100 CP (I've seen all these numbers stated) to do end-game PVP or PVE needs to be put to rest. You are talking about fractional, marginal gains beyond CP1000, where your skill as a player is going to matter way more than your CP level. Way more.

This depends on how you define "competitive" and "end-game PVP or PVE". If the latter means "vet DLC dungeons and vetTrials" you are right. I've done some tests gimping me to 1200 cp, and im sure that for a very good player, 1000 cp or even 800 cp may be enough ... if you belong to the rest, better get about 1200 cp to be more comfortable.

If you are thinking on the harder HMs, speed and no death runs, e.g. the juicy -12% incoming damage (3 passives: -8% for npcs and -4% each for magical/physical damage), which you cannot afford as dd at 1200 cp, is really helpful ... and probably needed by the majority of the players.

And regarding "competitive": if you mean that you can complete content with 1000 cp - right. But don't try to compete with players of equal skill which have 1500 cp. They will get higher scores in the dailies with a very high probability, and in pvp they will beat you in much more than 50% of the cases.

1500 (for pve) and 1800 cp (for pvp) are no myths, but facts if you compare players of equal skill in one of those competitive situations.

tmbrinks

FinrodMacBeorn wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

You will be competitive at less than 1000 CP. If you're already at 810, you are likely already very close to being there.

Player skill is much much more important than your CP. A skilled player at CP800 will beat a less skilled player at CP1200 every single time in the next update. The power delta between those will be measured in the single percentage points.

...

This myth that you will need 1500/1800/2100 CP (I've seen all these numbers stated) to do end-game PVP or PVE needs to be put to rest. You are talking about fractional, marginal gains beyond CP1000, where your skill as a player is going to matter way more than your CP level. Way more.

This depends on how you define "competitive" and "end-game PVP or PVE". If the latter means "vet DLC dungeons and vetTrials" you are right. I've done some tests gimping me to 1200 cp, and im sure that for a very good player, 1000 cp or even 800 cp may be enough ... if you belong to the rest, better get about 1200 cp to be more comfortable.

If you are thinking on the harder HMs, speed and no death runs, e.g. the juicy -12% incoming damage (3 passives: -8% for npcs and -4% each for magical/physical damage), which you cannot afford as dd at 1200 cp, is really helpful ... and probably needed by the majority of the players.

And regarding "competitive": if you mean that you can complete content with 1000 cp - right. But don't try to compete with players of equal skill which have 1500 cp. They will get higher scores in the dailies with a very high probability, and in pvp they will beat you in much more than 50% of the cases.

1500 (for pve) and 1800 cp (for pvp) are no myths, but facts if you compare players of equal skill in one of those competitive situations.

I'm defining it as being "able to complete the content"

If you want to push trifectas (in trials and maybe Stone Garden) or WR speed scores, you are in the 0.1% or less of this game. Then yes, you might need more CP. To imply that you need those for all content, as many are doing is disingenuous to me. Yeah, if you're going for Godslayer, you will need more than the 1000 CP. If you're going to clear vHM Castle Thorn, no, you don't. But both are "end-game" PVE.

I'm not familiar enough w/ PVP, but I've seen the numbers showing the changes being measured in the low single percentage points, so I can't imagine it's the enormous deal that it's being made out to be (just from a mathematical standpoint)

WrathOfInnos

FinrodMacBeorn wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

You will be competitive at less than 1000 CP. If you're already at 810, you are likely already very close to being there.

Player skill is much much more important than your CP. A skilled player at CP800 will beat a less skilled player at CP1200 every single time in the next update. The power delta between those will be measured in the single percentage points.

...

This myth that you will need 1500/1800/2100 CP (I've seen all these numbers stated) to do end-game PVP or PVE needs to be put to rest. You are talking about fractional, marginal gains beyond CP1000, where your skill as a player is going to matter way more than your CP level. Way more.

This depends on how you define "competitive" and "end-game PVP or PVE". If the latter means "vet DLC dungeons and vetTrials" you are right. I've done some tests gimping me to 1200 cp, and im sure that for a very good player, 1000 cp or even 800 cp may be enough ... if you belong to the rest, better get about 1200 cp to be more comfortable.

If you are thinking on the harder HMs, speed and no death runs, e.g. the juicy -12% incoming damage (3 passives: -8% for npcs and -4% each for magical/physical damage), which you cannot afford as dd at 1200 cp, is really helpful ... and probably needed by the majority of the players.

And regarding "competitive": if you mean that you can complete content with 1000 cp - right. But don't try to compete with players of equal skill which have 1500 cp. They will get higher scores in the dailies with a very high probability, and in pvp they will beat you in much more than 50% of the cases.

1500 (for pve) and 1800 cp (for pvp) are no myths, but facts if you compare players of equal skill in one of those competitive situations.

There will be very small advantages from CP’s up to that point, but that doesn’t mean you can’t compete. Player skill and knowledge matters much more than a few hundred CP’s. Most of the players I know that are planning to score push are around 1300 CP. Some are down near 1100 (or lower), and a few are in the 1400’s. Almost nobody is 1500+, so there simply won’t be full groups like that setting the bar high for competition.

It’s not a perfect system, but the only alternative is to cap everyone at some arbitrary low number. We’ve tried that, and didn’t like it. It just results in years of no character progression.

virtus753

tmbrinks wrote: »

I'm not familiar enough w/ PVP, but I've seen the numbers showing the changes being measured in the low single percentage points, so I can't imagine it's the enormous deal that it's being made out to be (just from a mathematical standpoint)

I have to wonder how big a role the psychological factor plays here (in PvE as well but especially in PvP).

If two players are, say, 200 CP apart (with at least one below vertical progression cap) and meet in CP PvP, then I could easily see the lower-CP player feeling (even subconsciously) intimidated or disadvantaged much more than the stats would suggest. And that kind of mentality can definitely impact performance: sometimes people will feel inspired or like they've got nothing to lose and play up to the competition, while in other cases they will be disheartened and perform worse due to a lack of confidence (in themselves or in the system).

I suppose I imagine it like going up against a sports team full of people who are on average physically bigger or who have a better or more extensive record. Just because those may be measurable advantages doesn't mean that team can't be beaten or that the game is fundamentally unfair. We don't go around ensuring that teams have the same average height/weight/speed or that they have the same record or overall amount of time played when they meet. We expect the best effort from both teams no matter what, because even if they are not statistically equal, the result of a competition is not a foregone conclusion. (If it is, then the match is arguably not a competition at all.)

Especially for people who are not professional competitors, though, and who do not train as such, I would think that the psychological factors of a matchup could be worth much more than the measurables when the statistical differences are small.

Nebthet78

TwinLamps wrote: »

Green tree need more passives.
No need to make game slot-a-star for a tree that has low impact on combat.

The need to move the Offensive options from the Blue tree back to the Red tree. I tested it out on the PTS and I hardly used anything from the Red option. I think that would help to solve a lot of issues. They've put too much into the Blue tree.

FinrodMacBeorn

tmbrinks wrote: »

...

I'm defining it as being "able to complete the content"
...

Then, we agree essentially. For really good players, the amount of cp does not matter so much beyond 1000 cp except for score runs etc.

For the average player, more cp might enable them however to complete content which they otherwise couldn’t. I’m frequently playing with ok-ish tanks, and there some more cp for damage reduction may help me just to survive an attack out of the blue which otherwise would be a one-hit if the tank lost aggro for a moment. We do not all play in top groups, and some leeway for errors helps which the additional survivability with more cp is granting.

Anyhow, I’m rather optimistic that we’ll still be able to clear the stuff which we are currently working on - having all cp 1300+ in our group.

Hotdog_23

Love ESO but with this new level of micromanagement if might be time to look at other games just to see what is out there.

ZOS has added to ESO to help bridge the gap a little with PC vs. console such as multicraft but with this new CP system they will have effective made the gap larger by a lot.

Already seen add-ons talked about here on the forum that will automate the process of slotting the necessary stars needed when needed for when they interact with a merchant, crafting station, fishing etc.

Glad our PC brothers and sisters are going to get add-ons that will automatically slots the necessary stars but to give this level of micromanagement to the game is dishearten to say the least for console players.

More time spent micromanaging is less time playing the game compared to what it will be like before CP 2.0.

They either need to make more of the crafting tree passive slots of give us more stars for this tree vs. the other trees.

Posted here and Do you like more micromanagement with CP 2.0? thread

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/562916/do-you-like-more-micromanagement-with-cp-2-0#latest

Stay safe and have fun

PS, Micromanagement is not fun ZOS

Hotdog_23

So much for choices.

https://github.com/CyberOnEso/JackOfAllTrades

Throw console a bone ZOS.

Ranger209

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

So much for choices.

https://github.com/CyberOnEso/JackOfAllTrades

Throw console a bone ZOS.

So are you charged 3k gold everytime it auto adjusts your CP?

lillybit

Ranger209 wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

So much for choices.

https://github.com/CyberOnEso/JackOfAllTrades

Throw console a bone ZOS.

So are you charged 3k gold everytime it auto adjusts your CP?

Think it just swaps actives, that's free.

Glad PC has a solution like this but that generally means consoles won't see anything to help for years - whenever it's bought up people will just laugh and say its not a problem because there's addons to fix it

Ranger209

lillybit wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

So much for choices.

https://github.com/CyberOnEso/JackOfAllTrades

Throw console a bone ZOS.

So are you charged 3k gold everytime it auto adjusts your CP?

Think it just swaps actives, that's free.

Glad PC has a solution like this but that generally means consoles won't see anything to help for years - whenever it's bought up people will just laugh and say its not a problem because there's addons to fix it

So as long as you have enough CP to unlock all of the passives you want to swap you are ok, but if you don't have enough CP to unlock all of those and you have to reallocate CP to open a star you want to swap to that would still be a manual swap?

lillybit

Ranger209 wrote: »

lillybit wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

So much for choices.

https://github.com/CyberOnEso/JackOfAllTrades

Throw console a bone ZOS.

So are you charged 3k gold everytime it auto adjusts your CP?

Think it just swaps actives, that's free.

Glad PC has a solution like this but that generally means consoles won't see anything to help for years - whenever it's bought up people will just laugh and say its not a problem because there's addons to fix it

So as long as you have enough CP to unlock all of the passives you want to swap you are ok, but if you don't have enough CP to unlock all of those and you have to reallocate CP to open a star you want to swap to that would still be a manual swap?

Yes, that's what it say if you click the link

This addon will not respec your champion points, and will not charge you 3000 gold etc. It will only equip the skills if you have enough points into them already. It is intended to be a seamless quality of life improvement, not a CP respec addon.

spacefracking

Rungar wrote: »

would it be possible that every 4th point the player can choose the color ( red, green, blue)

so your first point is green, next blue, next red, next player choice, then back to green.

That might give players a little bit of freedom to max out combat ( or whatever they choose) a little bit earlier if they choose, while maintaining the overall idea of the separation and horizontal growth of the different trees.

This is the best idea I have seen so far in these threads

Secondsz

Rungar wrote: »

would it be possible that every 4th point the player can choose the color ( red, green, blue)

so your first point is green, next blue, next red, next player choice, then back to green.

That might give players a little bit of freedom to max out combat ( or whatever they choose) a little bit earlier if they choose, while maintaining the overall idea of the separation and horizontal growth of the different trees.

I also love this idea, maybe a 4th pool that every 4th point enters that can be spent anywhere. Call it whatever lore inspired thing they want and just use them as wildcard style points.

lillybit

Secondsz wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

would it be possible that every 4th point the player can choose the color ( red, green, blue)

so your first point is green, next blue, next red, next player choice, then back to green.

That might give players a little bit of freedom to max out combat ( or whatever they choose) a little bit earlier if they choose, while maintaining the overall idea of the separation and horizontal growth of the different trees.

I also love this idea, maybe a 4th pool that every 4th point enters that can be spent anywhere. Call it whatever lore inspired thing they want and just use them as wildcard style points.

Sounds good but would make it tricky for trial lead to work out level requirements - with an even split you know that someone at 1200 will have 400 in blue. That way it could be anything between 300 and 600 so could be a very big difference in people at the same 1200

burglar

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

So much for choices.

https://github.com/CyberOnEso/JackOfAllTrades

Throw console a bone ZOS.

Seriously. I left more than a year ago, and never thought I would come back. After hearing about this update I was excited to return. But, the idea of managing these slots is reminding me of how arduous it can be to do surveys on console - as an adventurer, why can't my character mark his map after finding a survey location? PC players have addons to tell them where this stuff is, why not just add that as a feature to the game in general? Don't get me wrong, either: I think it's great that PC players have access to addons, but it drives me mad that they put restrictions in place, but also create resources to bypass those restrictions. I know that ZoS isn't responsible for limiting addons on console - Sony is effing draconian with their rules - but, why have the restrictions at all if they can be bypassed on one platform?

Hotdog_23

ProbablePaul wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

So much for choices.

https://github.com/CyberOnEso/JackOfAllTrades

Throw console a bone ZOS.

Seriously. I left more than a year ago, and never thought I would come back. After hearing about this update I was excited to return. But, the idea of managing these slots is reminding me of how arduous it can be to do surveys on console - as an adventurer, why can't my character mark his map after finding a survey location? PC players have addons to tell them where this stuff is, why not just add that as a feature to the game in general? Don't get me wrong, either: I think it's great that PC players have access to addons, but it drives me mad that they put restrictions in place, but also create resources to bypass those restrictions. I know that ZoS isn't responsible for limiting addons on console - Sony is effing draconian with their rules - but, why have the restrictions at all if they can be bypassed on one platform?

100% agree with you.

My only hope is either they add more to the game in the console update whenever it is released, or they allow account transfer one day.

Stay safe and have fun (:

Nevidyra

I'm not looking forward to the grind again. I'm at 1060 and hearing that I'm going to need around 700 more levels just to be competitive again in PvE, something that I'm already doing every week, is a huge turn off. Hearing that I'm going to need about another 1,000 to be competitive in PvP again is making me want to quit.

ZOS needs to re-evaluate the time investment they're expecting already max-level players to put into the new system. At the moment, it seems ludicrous. Current CP ranks should be translated into the new system in some regard to lessen the grind.

200 >> 1000

500 >> 2000

800 > 3000

Or something similar.

renne

From this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/563223/2-extremely-important-addons-next-patch#latest

gariondavey wrote: »

Jack of all Trades - green CP tree slottables for fishing, opening chests, refining raw materials, etc. are automatically slotted right before you open a chest, fish, etc. Your previously slotted ones are then automatically reslotted after the activity is complete.

Honestly, I'd love to see addons like this blocked - and I'm not being malicious with this, but because then at least if PC players were ALSO complaining about massively negative QoL impacts like this too, something might actually get changed for ALL players.

Instead on console we have to reslot CP before fishing, then reslot CP before opening a chest, then reslot CP before refining materials, then reslot our old CP after doing all these things. (Or, y'know, leave the most generally useful ones slotted and eat the penalties from what used to be passives, because seriously, the majority of the player base does not have the time nor the inclination to micromanage their green CP like this.)

But of course PC players are able to use addons, so what we'll get instead is someone making a thread complaining about reslotting green CP, someone saying "there's an addon for that!" and either the person will be like "yay!" go about their business without thinking about it ever again or they'll mention they're on console and it'll continue to absolutely suck.

Throw console players a bone here, ZoS. This is not good game design to force console players into busywork if they want to get the best out of their experience.


Edit: Also how does shuffling CP back and forth before and after every single activity, no matter how small, reduce server calculations?? The only thing I can think of is that ZoS is literally hoping that people will just not be bothered doing it because it's excessive busywork micromanagement, therefore no additional calculations.

katorga

renne wrote: »

From this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/563223/2-extremely-important-addons-next-patch#latest

gariondavey wrote: »

Jack of all Trades - green CP tree slottables for fishing, opening chests, refining raw materials, etc. are automatically slotted right before you open a chest, fish, etc. Your previously slotted ones are then automatically reslotted after the activity is complete.

Honestly, I'd love to see addons like this blocked - and I'm not being malicious with this, but because then at least if PC players were ALSO complaining about massively negative QoL impacts like this too, something might actually get changed for ALL players.

That is a very valid point.

Sarannah

I really hope CP 2.0 does not go live with a system that requires constant switching!

Besides it being annoying, it also gives a loot benefit to players who use add-ons to constantly switch actives versus those who do not use add-ons. Add-ons should not give an in-game loot advantage!

PS: There is no official thread for the new CP 2.0 announcement post!

Eweyhen

Darktrox wrote: »

Same, I'm dealing half my dps on CP810, lurking around to see if I missed something.

Yes, this is an overall damage nerf to the game. Yes, it is healthy for the game since this is the best way to stop power creep. Yes, the game will feel worse to min/maxers. No, the game will not die if those goes live.

Just wanted to answer all of this ahead of time will also acknowledging your concerns.

Eweyhen

Arkhaniir wrote: »

UI/UX Related:

1-) With a single constellation having a lot higher number of perks now, I am having difficulties seeing where everything is. The Stars mix with the background, I can't see the Lines connecting the Stars very well and when everything is unlocked its just a bowl of +/- signs with numbers. This makes unlocking higher perks or laying out a plan quite difficult since I can't see the full picture properly. A minimalistic visuals toggle of sorts would be greatly appreciated for anyone having trouble with it visually.


2-) The "Current Bonus" indicator does not update until you "Confirm" your points which feels counter intuitive. My immediate instinct is to see that value change with the Points (Or Stages in new cases).


Otherwise I am loving this so far. The new perks are very focused and I like that. This will allow me to try out further non-meta weird builds. Testing continues.

“Current bonus” is 0 because you don’t have the perk slotted. If the game said “You have 4% bonus, it would likely mislead people to believe the bonus is active. Slot the perk in the circles above and the % will update

virtus753

Eweyhen wrote: »

Arkhaniir wrote: »

UI/UX Related:

1-) With a single constellation having a lot higher number of perks now, I am having difficulties seeing where everything is. The Stars mix with the background, I can't see the Lines connecting the Stars very well and when everything is unlocked its just a bowl of +/- signs with numbers. This makes unlocking higher perks or laying out a plan quite difficult since I can't see the full picture properly. A minimalistic visuals toggle of sorts would be greatly appreciated for anyone having trouble with it visually.


2-) The "Current Bonus" indicator does not update until you "Confirm" your points which feels counter intuitive. My immediate instinct is to see that value change with the Points (Or Stages in new cases).


Otherwise I am loving this so far. The new perks are very focused and I like that. This will allow me to try out further non-meta weird builds. Testing continues.

“Current bonus” is 0 because you don’t have the perk slotted. If the game said “You have 4% bonus, it would likely mislead people to believe the bonus is active. Slot the perk in the circles above and the % will update

This was a bug and has been fixed in the intervening month, iirc.

It can be very difficult for a person to count visually the number of completed stages, since the tooltip doesn’t say that at all in text, and then do the math to figure out what the bonus would be when slotted. For some people that will be trivial, but it can be incredibly difficult for those who have a hard time seeing fine details or doing math. Making those people have to slot the node to see the bonus is an additional and completely unnecessary step, especially when a game like this should be taking care to ease issues of accessibility rather than compound them. The tooltip needs to update dynamically as each stage is filled, with the last line serving as an indicator as to whether it still needs to be slotted to take effect. (The green will turn to grey once slotted/active.)

Hotdog_23

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/59651

Article about the new system that dropped on 3-2-21.

"“The champion bar enables us to help control vertical power by allowing only certain amounts of stars to be slotted and controls how many passives are active on your character,” notes Wheeler. “Because you can have only four slotted stars from each constellation, you have to pick what you slot. This gives the new system a different feel from the old one, as you just don’t get all the benefits without real choices or drawbacks. This follows the same philosophy of building your ‘deck’ similar to your ability bar and equipment slots.”

Looks like they are happy and pleased with the micromanagement they added to the game especially for console players with the benefit of no add-ons.

Micromanagement feels like work and not fun gameplay. Most of the green tree needs to be passives.

Really really disappointed in ZOS about this and with no acknowledgment of the trouble you are adding to the game and backslapping you are giving yourself for the new system.

Overall I like the the direction of the new system but the execution leaves a lot to be desired.

Stay safe, I would say have fun also but you know micromanagement and all.

edit spelling

furiouslog

Here's my two cents on top of the rolls of pennies already in here:

• I don't have any issue with the design of the tree. I'm not a big fan yet, but until I actually test it out for a while I don't have comments. I understand that the intent is to force trade-off choices and I'm okay with that intent. The tree has been designed for flexibility and the future tweaking required given the realization of unintended consequences. It looks good in that way.
  
• I have a huge problem with the "power" equivalency of my characters after the change is made, because my CP is about 1300 right now, and the potential abilities enabled by the available CP I will have after the move reduces the scope of the vertical progression I have already made. If the old 810 equates to about 1500 in PvE and 1800 PVP (based on assessments already posted in this thread), then I am expending considerable effort to recapture what I can already do now (taking 1500 as a given, it's about 150 hours of self-buffed non-value adding gameplay to grind CP levels). As someone who has financially supported this game for a long time, contributed to community enrichment, and put a lot of time into building my characters, I am outraged that this approach creates a burden that is disrespectful of the value of the game time I've invested to achieve what I currently already have. The news post on the CP system contains this snippet: "In addition to ensuring players didn’t feel depowered by the change, the team wanted to add more variance and choice to the system." The article is not accurate, because I do feel depowered by the change, as should anyone who is over 810 and below 1800.

I request that ZOS find an acceptable and fair solution to translating old CP to new CP that meets the intent of their own stated objective of avoiding the depowering of these players, and if that is not going to happen, to at least provide a public statement as to why they are making this change at the cost of my convenience as well as many of the others who have played and supported their game for such a long time. Many ideas in that regard have been posted in this thread - I'm not going to brainstorm solutions because it just becomes about the solutions. I want the problem to be addressed, I'm agnostic as to the specific solution.

I think an expectation that this "depowered feeling" be addressed one way or the other is reasonable, given that ZOS has failed to deliver on that stated objective.

To players who are equally dissatisfied and have no remedy: I suggest that you do as I am doing, and go to Steam, Metacritic, Amazon, and other consumer review sites that allow reasonable consumer feedback, and contribute your assessments of the game given ZOS's community engagement and design implementation.

If you are so inclined, you can also request a Blackwood refund here:

https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/48054/kw/refund