Do you like more micromanagement with CP 2.0?

BalticBlues

Kwoung wrote: »

not a fan of having to constantly swap my passives around every time I change activities, something I do about 4-6 times a day currently. Want to harvest, change loadout, want to farm chests, change loadout, want to pick pockets, change loadout, want to hunt, change loadout, want to craft, change loadout... Bleh.

Inventory micromanagement already is the most tedious part of ESO.
Especially on consoles where addons cannot alleviate the micromanagement.
ZOS now creates even more micromangement with an extra CP micromanagement.

CP 2.0 essentially means MICROMANAGEMENT 2.0
Simple question: Are you happy with more micromanagement?

RogueShark

This is actually the only part of the new CP system I'm not a huge fan of. I wish, mostly/especially with the green tree, that there were more things set passively rather than needing to be slotted. God help me the day I forget to slot meticulous disassembly or whatever and go on a huge survey refining + decon spree with my fishing crap slotted on accident. xD

remosito

No, I like to spend my play time with more gameplay and less micromanagement

green tree is the worst. they should really make most of the active ones passive.

only speed and sneak stuff and fall damage be active at worst. they kinda matter for pvp. but why are those in craft tree in the first place. they are thematically all fitness.

at best make them all passive. and give the green slots to blue and red. either 2/2. or make them purple accepting red or bkue stars.

played with cp3600 template. and only 4 stars feels strangulating. I do see the importance of limits and having to make choices. but only 4 feels really excessively limitating. to the point where spending time in cp screen makes one question if paying money to walk away that frustrated makes any sense at all.

6 for blue/red would still be limiting and require tough choices. but on a way more sane level.

redspecter23

No, I like to spend my play time with more gameplay and less micromanagement

I'm thinking that PC will likely get an addon to hot swap cp slottables to aid in this problem, but it shouldn't even be a problem to begin with. I understand limiting vertical power with slotted abilities. This makes no sense when it comes to fishing, harvesting, vendoring or other non combat activities when we can just swap them before doing that activity anyway.

All this does is add an extra step to the process of everyday game actions in order to maximize your results.

ApoAlaia

No, I like to spend my play time with more gameplay and less micromanagement

remosito wrote: »

green tree is the worst. they should really make most of the active ones passive.

only speed and sneak stuff and fall damage be active at worst. they kinda matter for pvp. but why are those in craft tree in the first place. they are thematically all fitness.

at best make them all passive. and give the green slots to blue and red. either 2/2. or make them purple accepting red or bkue stars.

played with cp3600 template. and only 4 stars feels strangulating. I do see the importance of limits and having to make choices. but only 4 feels really excessively limitating. to the point where spending time in cp screen makes one question if paying money to walk away that frustrated makes any sense at all.

6 for blue/red would still be limiting and require tough choices. but on a way more sane level.

Green tree is going to be a slotting mini-game for me too (and a very tedious one at that).

I guess they have achieved something... in the current live version the CP UI is something I visit occasionally on some characters, with the inception of CP 2.0 it will be something I visit often on many characters.

Success?

virtus753

remosito wrote: »

only speed and sneak stuff and fall damage be active at worst. they kinda matter for pvp. but why are those in craft tree in the first place. they are thematically all fitness.

“Craft” can also cover craftiness, so things that benefit sneaking, thievery (expanding to the general idea of gaining gold while cutting costs), and escaping or fleeing (more acrobatic falling, less expensive wayshrining, fleeter horsemanship) can fit within the sphere of the term as much as more traditional handicrafts (harvesting, decon, fishing, and the use of crafted enchantments, poisons, potions, and provisioning products). It’s an interesting strategy to push the multivalence of the term in the ways they have in order to spread out the CP nodes more evenly across all three constellations.

That said, I really wish they’d drop the new names and go back to the Thief, the Mage, and the Warrior. Those are the lore-specific names for the constellations they chose to illustrate rather than extremely generic (and frankly very mundane) “what it says on the tin” labels.

Drygon

Yes, I like to spend my play time with more micromanagement and less gameplay

Does not seem like a problem to me.

I'll just have a few characters that are crafters and that's it.

Seems more natural this way too.

remosito

No, I like to spend my play time with more gameplay and less micromanagement

ApoAlaia wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

green tree is the worst. they should really make most of the active ones passive.

only speed and sneak stuff and fall damage be active at worst. they kinda matter for pvp. but why are those in craft tree in the first place. they are thematically all fitness.

at best make them all passive. and give the green slots to blue and red. either 2/2. or make them purple accepting red or bkue stars.

played with cp3600 template. and only 4 stars feels strangulating. I do see the importance of limits and having to make choices. but only 4 feels really excessively limitating. to the point where spending time in cp screen makes one question if paying money to walk away that frustrated makes any sense at all.

6 for blue/red would still be limiting and require tough choices. but on a way more sane level.

Green tree is going to be a slotting mini-game for me too (and a very tedious one at that).

I guess they have achieved something... in the current live version the CP UI is something I visit occasionally on some characters, with the inception of CP 2.0 it will be something I visit often on many characters.

Success?

it's crazy.

They really need a QoL Zar with veto powers. Who has to actively play the game in a wide range of playstyles for at least 35 hours a week.

colossalvoids

They should implement loadouts and especially cp ones next, so consoles won't be left out. As a pc user my only initial management would be apply points and load an add-on keybinds for different activities. Still pretty sure they would turn some stars into passives again later.

Anyron

As full time nocp PvP player - whatever

BalticBlues

No, I like to spend my play time with more gameplay and less micromanagement

colossalvoids wrote: »

They should implement loadouts and especially cp ones next, so consoles won't be left out.

THIS. At least for console release, a CP LOADOUT MANAGER IS REQUIRED.
With 100 CP stars, players need to be able to save different CP loadouts for different roles.

ZOS, please do not release CP 2.0 in its current ALPHA STAGE on consoles.
Please bring it at least to BETA STAGE with a loadout manager.
CP 2.0 is so big, IMHO it should go finalized into the next chapter, not as alpha into the next DLC.

spacefracking

New CP is way less micromanagement. I won't be asking what sets a tank is running to set my spell pen accurately anymore. I'll just be picking the max allowed by the much weakened CP system.

lillybit

No, I like to spend my play time with more gameplay and less micromanagement

spacefracking wrote: »

New CP is way less micromanagement. I won't be asking what sets a tank is running to set my spell pen accurately anymore. I'll just be picking the max allowed by the much weakened CP system.

In just the craft tree:

An active for eating/drinking
An active for using potions
An active for repairing
An active for mount speed
An active for out of combat speed
An active for refining
An active for treasure chests
Two actives for picking flowers

And these are just the ones I'll use every day, quite often in the middle of something else. It's not even taking into account the times I'll respec, like when I want to be go thieving or do some fishing and will still need some of those.

Less changes needed for combat is far from less changes needed!

BalticBlues

No, I like to spend my play time with more gameplay and less micromanagement

lillybit wrote: »

An active for refining

IMHO this point alone is incredibly BAD GAME DESIGN.

ZOS, please note that such crafting actives do not give any meaningful gameplay option.
Instead they essentially add just another mandatory and tedious layer of micromanagement,
because every time people want to do precious refines, they now have to change their CP distribution.
Most people still want to play a game, not micromanage an Excel CP table.

tomofhyrule

I feel like the idea behind this was not to micromanage it, it was to make you decide what you want to focus on.

It's really the game designers saying "Hey, we'll make it easy for you to get good fish or you can have it easy to get high quality stuff in chests! Which would you choose for your gameplay?" They have it set so you can switch whenever you want, depending on which direction you want to go.

It's the players that hear that and are saying "I need the fishing passive only when I'm fishing and the chest passive only when I'm looting chests and the..."

It just feel like it's designed that you need to make some sacrifices in your gameplay if you want certain passives, but the fact that it allows you to swap at will makes it so you can either play the 'let me swap my CP every three seconds' or the 'meh, I'm not fussed if I sacrifice a gold mat when refining' game.

I feel like the idea to just give all fo the green slots to red and blue isn't solving anything. Would I like to slot more power CPs? Yes. But then I don't need to make choices anymore since I can just get everything. And the devs' entire presentation about this was making choices. I still think we should have to make sacrifices in one place to get somewhere in another.

After all, if the game was only about getting everything and sacrificing nothing, why even bother giving us characters? Just open the game, there's a maxed-stats blank slate, and then we're all on the same level, right?

Scardan

I do not care. I will not micromanage everything, it is not required to play, OP. The poll is based on very high lvl perfectionism. Very high.

What is inventory micromanaging? Everything is already sorted into tabs.

techyeshic

Yes, I like to spend my play time with more micromanagement and less gameplay

I mean; the wording makes the poll kind of irrellevent. "Do you think this sucks" "No I like things that suck."

The micromanagement I think you are referring to of swapping active passives out; I'm fine with. May even be good for a loadout based on activity rather than have to do a full respec we do now. (Crit resist as an example. Completely wasted in PvE. Needed in PvP) I just don't like the convoluted layout of where stars are and what requirements you need to get to some.

DT-ARR

I highly doubt at this point that the design team plays the game for fun and in their spare time. So much of their comments and actions to ‘standardize’ give the impression that they view their work as simply that...work.

It’s seems pretty inevitable that if those in charge of managing the game view it as nothing more than a job...that inevitably they will turn it into a tedious job for the players as their true feelings sift into the game code itself via the subconscious feelings driving decisions.

TwinLamps

No, I like to spend my play time with more gameplay and less micromanagement

If crafting tree had less of these slotables Id be happier with changes,
But the way it is now it is just another chore.

remosito

No, I like to spend my play time with more gameplay and less micromanagement

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I feel like the idea to just give all fo the green slots to red and blue isn't solving anything. Would I like to slot more power CPs? Yes. But then I don't need to make choices anymore since I can just get everything.

there are WAY more than 6 active stars in both red and blue. Even with six slots there's still anple choices to be made.

Ace_SiN

Micromanagement is only an issue because zos refuse to add quality of life features to alleviate them. I shouldn't need an addon to save gear setups in a game where swapping sets is a foundational aspect of it. Neither should be the case for this new CP system.

fathym1

No, I like to spend my play time with more gameplay and less micromanagement

They really need to rework the new cp specifically for the green tree. The way it’s set up now is literally the most tedious and immersion breaking system I have ever seen in an rpg. Nothing takes you out of the story like having to respec cp just to gather some resources on the side of the road. I’d personally prefer that they get rid of the slotting system all together for the green tree. It’s not like any of the passives in that tree impact combat power heavily and they are almost entirely made up of ‘out of combat’ passives so they should have very little impact on performance. If they want to give players more impactful choices in that tree they could even lower the amount of green cp you get and give the extra cp to the other trees. That way players will reach peak power progression quicker while still being able to look forward to crafting and gold making progression at later cp and it would force players to make an rpg choice for each character (ex: character 1 will be crafter, character 2 will be gatherer/chest opener etc...)

Shantu

No, I like to spend my play time with more gameplay and less micromanagement

Designed by smart people who think they need to use quantum physics to bake an apple pie.

Phaedryn

Those are some of the most loaded, and leading, poll options I have seen in a while...lol

Elvenheart

No, I like to spend my play time with more gameplay and less micromanagement

I’m not too worried. I’ll be putting all my cp in whatever spots that Hack the Minotaur tells me is best for solo builds. 😁

lillybit

No, I like to spend my play time with more gameplay and less micromanagement

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I feel like the idea behind this was not to micromanage it, it was to make you decide what you want to focus on.

It's really the game designers saying "Hey, we'll make it easy for you to get good fish or you can have it easy to get high quality stuff in chests! Which would you choose for your gameplay?" They have it set so you can switch whenever you want, depending on which direction you want to go.

It's the players that hear that and are saying "I need the fishing passive only when I'm fishing and the chest passive only when I'm looting chests and the..."

It just feel like it's designed that you need to make some sacrifices in your gameplay if you want certain passives, but the fact that it allows you to swap at will makes it so you can either play the 'let me swap my CP every three seconds' or the 'meh, I'm not fussed if I sacrifice a gold mat when refining' game.

I feel like the idea to just give all fo the green slots to red and blue isn't solving anything. Would I like to slot more power CPs? Yes. But then I don't need to make choices anymore since I can just get everything. And the devs' entire presentation about this was making choices. I still think we should have to make sacrifices in one place to get somewhere in another.

After all, if the game was only about getting everything and sacrificing nothing, why even bother giving us characters? Just open the game, there's a maxed-stats blank slate, and then we're all on the same level, right?

I mean that's fine, but they give you enough CP that by the end of vertical progression you can have most of the ones relevant to to you, so why wouldn't you use them? Most of the ones I've listed will be unlocked for me, except maybe reining if I can manage to get enough skillpoints on another character to get 3/3 for everything. Fishing and thieving aren't things I do often enough to keep points on so I'm good with repeccing for those. So I'll have unlocked Rationer but the most I'll need it is every couple of hours. No point leaving it slotted all the time. I'm only going to be repairing after a dungeon so that one doesn't have to stay. I don't pick flowers in dungeons so don't need those and don't use potions outside of them. And so on.

Having this much choice and the ability to unlock most of the things that will be helpful, micromanagement can't be avoided unless you just don't spent your CPs - then what's the point of them?

My issue is only with the craft tree BTW, we always have to respec for different content even with the current system. I'm good with that continuing. I'm not likely to be doing too much content that needs switching in the middle of it, which is just as well because I'm mainly on console!

Finedaible

No, I like to spend my play time with more gameplay and less micromanagement

Inb4 they make a cash store 'solution' to this problem in a future update like the outfit slots and cash-only inventory upgrades.

renne

No, I like to spend my play time with more gameplay and less micromanagement

As I posted elsewhere:

Yeah, as a console player I am really dreading the massively negative QoL impact this is going to have on my play time. Having to remember to swap out things I never used to BECAUSE they were passives and now I have to have slotted in order to not be gimped just playing the game the way I normally do, is going to be SO PAINFUL.

What I absolutely see happening with the majority of console players is what gets slotted basically gets slotted permanently (treasure chests, harvesting, craft related for example) and everything else is ignored because it's so situational, you're not going to remember to swap to it until it's too late, and you just eat the "penalty" you're basically getting despite having the CP spent because who even has the time or memory for this unnecessary busywork.

majulook

No, I like to spend my play time with more gameplay and less micromanagement

I call it Star Shuffle The new game from ZENIMAX ONLINE STUDIOS

I really think that its going to make a lot of players upset

QuebraRegra

No, I like to spend my play time with more gameplay and less micromanagement

NO F NO....

overwhelming "NO" responses, devs persist unchecked.

Pink_Pixie

majulook wrote: »

I call it Star Shuffle The new game from ZENIMAX ONLINE STUDIOS

I really think that its going to make a lot of players upset

You forgot to add, there will be a two minute load screen to every star swap