PTS Update 29 - Feedback Thread for Champion Point System

DeathStalker

I've sat here for 10 minutes trying to figure out how to explain how unhappy I am with the new CP system. Half of one tree is only useful if you're under crowd control, for what reason? For long-time players, it seems like the new system is a punishment. Not enough passives in the green tree. The new system weakens low-end players way too much. I could go on and on. There will be a lot of unhappy people when this goes live.

There is a lot of potential with the new system. But it was designed to hurt and punish players way too much. Why should I start grinding all over again? I have severe arthritis in both hands which makes doing good dps almost impossible. Now, for being a player since beta my reward is lower dps that I already struggle to get. My reward is feeling punished.

WrathOfInnos

It’s was looking like a tough grind week 1, but after the adjustments to the effective CP cap and the xp curve it doesn’t seem bad now. I don’t think the intent is for everyone to go skyreach themselves to max CP in the first few weeks, the new system is intended to give small vertical and horizontal progression over years of play. The point is that you don’t need max CP to compete because they don’t give nearly as much value as they used to.

FinrodMacBeorn

Ringod123 wrote: »

My argument has nothing to do with perceived damage loss or anything like that, my main playtime is CP PvP, which under this new system, even though I have had parity (been at CP810, which took me 2.5k hours) with everyone else for the last 1K hours now, will see that parity removed and I will now have to play for another 2K hours to ragain that parity with other players who have played longer than me.

Then you really belong to the group which is hurt most by the new system. For cp pvp, the vertical progression goes even beyond 1800 cp. I feel with you. I'm playing in non-cp pvp (PC EU Ravenwatch) since this option was available, and I am quite happy with it, but according to the forum, on other servers non-cp seems to be rather dead. Perhaps this will change now.

silvereyes

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I don’t think the intent is for everyone to go skyreach themselves to max CP in the first few weeks, the new system is intended to give small vertical and horizontal progression over years of play

Be that as it may, vertical progression is not where players want to hang out for years, feeling handicapped the entire time. Judging from the cost of XP pots and sealed enchanting / alchemy writs right now, grinding to max CP right away is exactly what people feel the need to do, regardless of how small the incremental changes are.

ExistingRug61

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

It’s was looking like a tough grind week 1, but after the adjustments to the effective CP cap and the xp curve it doesn’t seem bad now. I don’t think the intent is for everyone to go skyreach themselves to max CP in the first few weeks, the new system is intended to give small vertical and horizontal progression over years of play. The point is that you don’t need max CP to compete because they don’t give nearly as much value as they used to.

The problem is psychologically, many players want that benefit, regardless of how small it may be.

Look at buildcrafting for PvP or PvE - players out their searching for the tiniest marginal gains.
I don't think this is going to be any different.

And as such, even though it may not be ZOS's intent to cause a grind, this is likely what many players will do in response.

WrathOfInnos

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

It’s was looking like a tough grind week 1, but after the adjustments to the effective CP cap and the xp curve it doesn’t seem bad now. I don’t think the intent is for everyone to go skyreach themselves to max CP in the first few weeks, the new system is intended to give small vertical and horizontal progression over years of play. The point is that you don’t need max CP to compete because they don’t give nearly as much value as they used to.

The problem is psychologically, many players want that benefit, regardless of how small it may be.

Look at buildcrafting for PvP or PvE - players out their searching for the tiniest marginal gains.
I don't think this is going to be any different.

And as such, even though it may not be ZOS's intent to cause a grind, this is likely what many players will do in response.

Yeah, you’re not wrong. I’d like to max everything out myself, which is not an option at my current 1450 CPs. I just mean that’s likely by design, to keep people playing, paying and progressing by minuscule amounts. We won’t be completely crippled by low CP like we were in the old system, so it’s mostly psychological now.

ExistingRug61

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

It’s was looking like a tough grind week 1, but after the adjustments to the effective CP cap and the xp curve it doesn’t seem bad now. I don’t think the intent is for everyone to go skyreach themselves to max CP in the first few weeks, the new system is intended to give small vertical and horizontal progression over years of play. The point is that you don’t need max CP to compete because they don’t give nearly as much value as they used to.

The problem is psychologically, many players want that benefit, regardless of how small it may be.

Look at buildcrafting for PvP or PvE - players out their searching for the tiniest marginal gains.
I don't think this is going to be any different.

And as such, even though it may not be ZOS's intent to cause a grind, this is likely what many players will do in response.

Yeah, you’re not wrong. I’d like to max everything out myself, which is not an option at my current 1450 CPs. I just mean that’s likely by design, to keep people playing, paying and progressing by minuscule amounts. We won’t be completely crippled by low CP like we were in the old system, so it’s mostly psychological now.

Yep.

Even so, it’s probably off back to nocp for me.
Which is funny as I am totally ok with causing myself to be at a disadvantage from a race or class or weapon choice. But for some reason not this. Strange irrationality and different internal justification I guess.

Hotdog_23

Still no word on being able to setup multiple bars and rename them so console players and PC players can more easily change slotted cp perks.

This is really disappointing to me and makes me a little mad about it . Considering since so many of the stars need slotting to get any use out of them and since with version 1.0 it didn't matter. You spent the point you get the benefit but not now.

Knowing that PC players will get the help of add-ons to fix this deficiency and lack of consideration for console players. Feels like ZOS just sort of giving a middle finger to the console player.

Why add this micromanagement without at least giving us a way to manage it more easily? It's not like we have not been asking for it since you introduced the system and surely in the 2 years of planning you had to see the micromanagement you were adding to the game.

This kind of micromanagement adds no value whatsoever to the game and only takes away from it by while adding frustration.

Come on you can do better than this.

Stay safe

edit spelling

Yamenstein

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Still no word on being able to setup multiple bars and rename them so console players and PC players can more easily change slotted cp perks.

This is really disappointing to me and makes me a little mad about it . Considering since so many of the stars need slotting to get any use out of them and since with version 1.0 it didn't matter. You spent the point you get the benefit but not now.

Knowing that PC players will get the help of add-ons to fix this deficiency and lack of consideration for console players. Feels like ZOS just sort of giving a middle finger to the console player.

Why add this micromanagement without at least giving us a way to manage it more easily? It's not like we have not been asking for it since you introduced the system and surely in the 2 years of planning you had to see the micromanagement you were adding to the game.

This kind of micromanagement adds no value whatsoever to the game and only takes away from it by while adding frustration.

Come on you can do better than this.

Stay safe

edit spelling

They'll introduce it when enough people ask/complain enough.

renne

QoL on console is a joke anyway, we already don't expect any consideration.

Fennwitty

Please re-evaluate the distinction of active vs. passive stars for Craft in your next sprint.

Craft stars are the opposite of fun right now. Maybe all these active stars are good for the server but they're bad for enjoyment.

It is simply BORING, meaningless activity.

Having to slot highly situational skills with huge benefits encourages continual shifting around of slotted stars, most of which apply 1% of game time. Treasure Hunter, Infamous, the fishing skills, etc.


I'm on PC so I'll get addons to help. And it will still be annoying to swap stars just to repair gear after a dungeon or sell loot to a fence after a crime spree. It adds work to the play.

Players on console have to do everything manually.

majulook

CP 2.0 Online Calculator

NOTE this is a work in progress
Good for those not able or wanting to use PTS.

Go Here to try it out >>>> https://eso-hub.com/en/news/eso-champion-points-calculator-and-more-new-features

Nordic__Knights

i find it so wrong of zos to say 1200cp was end to the grind for power max when ive yet to be able to do any of my 28 toons on an 1200cp set up , for my main class ( stamblade) its 1890cp for pve and 2760cp for pvp to max out my power value

ok 460cp aint a lot to grind back out , tho an vet player of 5 years shouldnt need to, just to be back to where their at already.
now close to 1400 more for pvp where ive been emp 16xs thats just over the top im not about to spend another 5 years grinding 1400 more cp just to pvp again and dont tell me to play non cp ive never played non cp nor will i , and i dealt with PC transfers on PS4 at start an enjoyed it was nice having hard kills , and the hate mail was fun too lol

Mr_Wolfe

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

It’s was looking like a tough grind week 1, but after the adjustments to the effective CP cap and the xp curve it doesn’t seem bad now. I don’t think the intent is for everyone to go skyreach themselves to max CP in the first few weeks, the new system is intended to give small vertical and horizontal progression over years of play. The point is that you don’t need max CP to compete because they don’t give nearly as much value as they used to.

The thing is, we're not just competing with other players--we're competing with PVE content as well. Making each CP point less effective means all the CP we've already earned becomes less effective. A lot of players who were already at the 'finish line' are going to see that progress snatched away from them and replaced with a grind that is several times longer than what they've already done.

starkerealm

As of this week, Meticulous Disassembly appears to have no effect on characters with maxed out extraction passives.

(This was tested with jewelry crafting specifically, as raw jewelry mats are included with the template bags, but not for the other crafting skill lines.)

BalticBlues

I would like to add concerns about the need for micromanaging CPs, especially crafting stars.

1. CP micromanagement
Because many passives will become actives, it will require players to adjust their CP distribution several times a day. As @renne wrote in a poll about this, people already are dreading the massively negative QoL impact the crafting star micromanagement is going to have on their play time. Having to remember to swap out actives which people never had to (because they were passives) is going to be painful. In a poll about this, currently about 90% of players are dreading the upcoming crafting star micromanagement:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/562916/do-you-like-more-micromanagement-with-cp-2-0/p1

2. CP loadout management
With 100 CP stars, players need to be able to save different CP loadouts for different roles and activities. On PC there certainly will be an addon to help , but on Consoles there are no addons. A a CP loadout manager on consoles is needed the moment the new CP system goes life, please.

FantasticFreddie

For me, the biggest disappointment is I was actually hyped about a new cp system. They made it sound interesting on the big reveal, they've been working on it for two years, they want to narrow the gap between high and low cp for combat but still reward the upper cp folks-- it sounded so nice!
The reality is not what they promised.
Nerfs to damage, nerfs to survivability, useless stars blocking your path to the ones you want, progression teams for trials will get kicked in the teeth by these changes, anyone at low cp has an even steeper hill to climb, the whole thing is clunky and counterintuitive... I am dreading it.

virtus753

starkerealm wrote: »

As of this week, Meticulous Disassembly appears to have no effect on characters with maxed out extraction passives.

(This was tested with jewelry crafting specifically, as raw jewelry mats are included with the template bags, but not for the other crafting skill lines.)

tmbrinks came to the opposite conclusion here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/562770/meticulous-disassembly-still-broken-in-6-3-4-for-jc-other-craft-not-tested

What are your test results showing?

Secondsz

Installed the PTS and re-activated forums account just to leave feedback on the new CP system.

My partner already stopped playing after learning about the new CP system a couple of weeks ago, being told that she can no longer have all her crafting and gathering perks with CP550 and would have to grind out another 300 levels to get them back, she just threw her hands in the air and said F this game. I feel like this is going to be a very common response to CP 2.0 for overworld casuals.

Currently CP910 on live, I would need to grind out to CP1200 to start feeling 'competitive' and slotting 4 fully leveled stars and still missing A LOT of the passives.

Let me be clear, I am a FAN of grinding usually and enjoy it, but this grind is daunting and undesirable even to me (someone who grinding BDO and maplestory and runescape finds this new grind ridiculous).

Its too high.

No new player will want to play this game if it remains this way.

The vertical progression needs to be reigned in to MAX OUT at CP1200 (which most new people and casuals will still run from).

Even with the increased exp now extending to 1800, the grind is too much and people will feel like they cannot fairly compete in PVP or PVE until reaching that, which is ridiculous.

Let me be clear, at 900CP you will not be 'competitive'.

You will be missing at least another 10% in dmg increase by reaching CP1200. You would likely gain another 5%~ going from 1200-1800.

It is a ridiculous grind and a game breaking level of diference in PVP.

The vertical progression should COMPLETELY STOP by CP1200 (i'd argue lower but they never will).

It should be OPTIONS and horizontal progression from 1200+, like was originally discussed in the reveal video.

Whoever thought this was a good idea needs to lose their job, honestly speechless that it could progress so far as an 'idea' in any company wanting to retain its customer base.

DreadDaedroth

All non combat related champion points stars should be passive active without the need to be slotted.

ApoAlaia

There are IMO far too many 'slottable' passives/perks in the 'Craft' tree.

Where I can see the logic on having the 'combat' oriented ones as 'slottable' I can't say the same for the crafting/resource gathering ones.

Is almost as if there were not enough 'combat' oriented 'slottable' perks available to create the illusion of choice therefore the crafting/resource gathering ones had to be 'promoted' to 'slottable'.

Alas this does not result in the aforementioned illusion but in a QoL detrimental 'slotting minigame of busywork'.

TwinLamps

Green tree need more passives.
No need to make game slot-a-star for a tree that has low impact on combat.

tmbrinks

Secondsz wrote: »

Installed the PTS and re-activated forums account just to leave feedback on the new CP system.

My partner already stopped playing after learning about the new CP system a couple of weeks ago, being told that she can no longer have all her crafting and gathering perks with CP550 and would have to grind out another 300 levels to get them back, she just threw her hands in the air and said F this game. I feel like this is going to be a very common response to CP 2.0 for overworld casuals.

Currently CP910 on live, I would need to grind out to CP1200 to start feeling 'competitive' and slotting 4 fully leveled stars and still missing A LOT of the passives.

Let me be clear, I am a FAN of grinding usually and enjoy it, but this grind is daunting and undesirable even to me (someone who grinding BDO and maplestory and runescape finds this new grind ridiculous).

Its too high.

No new player will want to play this game if it remains this way.

The vertical progression needs to be reigned in to MAX OUT at CP1200 (which most new people and casuals will still run from).

Even with the increased exp now extending to 1800, the grind is too much and people will feel like they cannot fairly compete in PVP or PVE until reaching that, which is ridiculous.

Let me be clear, at 900CP you will not be 'competitive'.

You will be missing at least another 10% in dmg increase by reaching CP1200. You would likely gain another 5%~ going from 1200-1800.

It is a ridiculous grind and a game breaking level of diference in PVP.

The vertical progression should COMPLETELY STOP by CP1200 (i'd argue lower but they never will).

It should be OPTIONS and horizontal progression from 1200+, like was originally discussed in the reveal video.

Whoever thought this was a good idea needs to lose their job, honestly speechless that it could progress so far as an 'idea' in any company wanting to retain its customer base.

I was watching a content creator go through and do some parsing on the PTS. There was about a 30% difference between No-CP and Max-CP 75k no-cp, 100k cp (on stamplar)

On Live currently, there is about a 100% difference (55k no-cp, 110k cp). (Magicka classes were nerfed LESS)

So, low CP players get a pretty significant boost to DPS, due to the increased stats at the bottom. Top tier DPS will see a little bit of a nerf (although some of this will be mitigated by new sets, buffs in group content, etc). The damage ramped up quick, so that just below 1000 CP, you had most of your damage passives (your 4 slottables, easily the most powerful of the stars, and a couple of others), and then it was only minor gains to about 1200-1300 where you had ALL of your main stat increases... then from there it was off-stat and off-healing.

Also, because of the changes to the curve, your CP gain from 800-1800 is going to be like 4x as fast as what you have now on Live. You also have 2 double XP events happening back to back with Jester's and Anniversary. The leveling is going to fly by with those combations.

I've also played BDO, only briefly admittingly, and the reason I quit was because of the grind. Leveling past 60 in BDO is complete and utter insanity, and I feel comparing that to ESO is disingenuous. With enlightenment in ESO, they're giving you at least 1 CP a day in that 800-1200 range just for doing a single random normal. Without even "grinding", especially during the double XP events, you can easily gain 4-6 CP a day, with grinding 12-20 (or more) if you wanted. I'm stockpiling my master writs from doing my daily writs. I'll be able to easily gain dozens of CP from them (and I'm at 2000+, so I still have the 50% penalty)

That said, I'm going to trust the content creator who's put out dozens of builds, has all the "end-game" content cleared and titles, and when they say that 95% of the vertical progression is done before you hit CP1000, I believe them. I came to a similar conclusion myself. (Now, it WAS ~1200 BEFORE they made the changes to some of the stars)

Secondsz

tmbrinks wrote: »

Secondsz wrote: »

Installed the PTS and re-activated forums account just to leave feedback on the new CP system.

My partner already stopped playing after learning about the new CP system a couple of weeks ago, being told that she can no longer have all her crafting and gathering perks with CP550 and would have to grind out another 300 levels to get them back, she just threw her hands in the air and said F this game. I feel like this is going to be a very common response to CP 2.0 for overworld casuals.

Currently CP910 on live, I would need to grind out to CP1200 to start feeling 'competitive' and slotting 4 fully leveled stars and still missing A LOT of the passives.

Let me be clear, I am a FAN of grinding usually and enjoy it, but this grind is daunting and undesirable even to me (someone who grinding BDO and maplestory and runescape finds this new grind ridiculous).

Its too high.

No new player will want to play this game if it remains this way.

The vertical progression needs to be reigned in to MAX OUT at CP1200 (which most new people and casuals will still run from).

Even with the increased exp now extending to 1800, the grind is too much and people will feel like they cannot fairly compete in PVP or PVE until reaching that, which is ridiculous.

Let me be clear, at 900CP you will not be 'competitive'.

You will be missing at least another 10% in dmg increase by reaching CP1200. You would likely gain another 5%~ going from 1200-1800.

It is a ridiculous grind and a game breaking level of diference in PVP.

The vertical progression should COMPLETELY STOP by CP1200 (i'd argue lower but they never will).

It should be OPTIONS and horizontal progression from 1200+, like was originally discussed in the reveal video.

Whoever thought this was a good idea needs to lose their job, honestly speechless that it could progress so far as an 'idea' in any company wanting to retain its customer base.

I was watching a content creator go through and do some parsing on the PTS. There was about a 30% difference between No-CP and Max-CP 75k no-cp, 100k cp (on stamplar)

On Live currently, there is about a 100% difference (55k no-cp, 110k cp). (Magicka classes were nerfed LESS)

So, low CP players get a pretty significant boost to DPS, due to the increased stats at the bottom. Top tier DPS will see a little bit of a nerf (although some of this will be mitigated by new sets, buffs in group content, etc). The damage ramped up quick, so that just below 1000 CP, you had most of your damage passives (your 4 slottables, easily the most powerful of the stars, and a couple of others), and then it was only minor gains to about 1200-1300 where you had ALL of your main stat increases... then from there it was off-stat and off-healing.

Also, because of the changes to the curve, your CP gain from 800-1800 is going to be like 4x as fast as what you have now on Live. You also have 2 double XP events happening back to back with Jester's and Anniversary. The leveling is going to fly by with those combations.

I've also played BDO, only briefly admittingly, and the reason I quit was because of the grind. Leveling past 60 in BDO is complete and utter insanity, and I feel comparing that to ESO is disingenuous. With enlightenment in ESO, they're giving you at least 1 CP a day in that 800-1200 range just for doing a single random normal. Without even "grinding", especially during the double XP events, you can easily gain 4-6 CP a day, with grinding 12-20 (or more) if you wanted. I'm stockpiling my master writs from doing my daily writs. I'll be able to easily gain dozens of CP from them (and I'm at 2000+, so I still have the 50% penalty)

That said, I'm going to trust the content creator who's put out dozens of builds, has all the "end-game" content cleared and titles, and when they say that 95% of the vertical progression is done before you hit CP1000, I believe them. I came to a similar conclusion myself. (Now, it WAS ~1200 BEFORE they made the changes to some of the stars)

Think about what you just said for a minute, for casuals and non-hardcore players. 1 free CP a day would take over a year (assuming they are even 810 atm). Assuming working or casual players get 2-3 hours a day to play at best, that is a ridiculous grind investment they need to make to continue to be equal to hardcore players for CP PVP and endgame trials.

Exp is 4x faster than it currently is, but its still ABSURDLY SLOW from 810-1200 to get back to being competitive, It is the equivelnt of grinding roughly 500>810 on live, its a BIG grind, even hardcore 5-10 hour a day players would be looking at weeks of grind. How is that appealing or acceptable to anyone is beyond me.

tmbrinks

Secondsz wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Secondsz wrote: »

Installed the PTS and re-activated forums account just to leave feedback on the new CP system.

My partner already stopped playing after learning about the new CP system a couple of weeks ago, being told that she can no longer have all her crafting and gathering perks with CP550 and would have to grind out another 300 levels to get them back, she just threw her hands in the air and said F this game. I feel like this is going to be a very common response to CP 2.0 for overworld casuals.

Currently CP910 on live, I would need to grind out to CP1200 to start feeling 'competitive' and slotting 4 fully leveled stars and still missing A LOT of the passives.

Let me be clear, I am a FAN of grinding usually and enjoy it, but this grind is daunting and undesirable even to me (someone who grinding BDO and maplestory and runescape finds this new grind ridiculous).

Its too high.

No new player will want to play this game if it remains this way.

The vertical progression needs to be reigned in to MAX OUT at CP1200 (which most new people and casuals will still run from).

Even with the increased exp now extending to 1800, the grind is too much and people will feel like they cannot fairly compete in PVP or PVE until reaching that, which is ridiculous.

Let me be clear, at 900CP you will not be 'competitive'.

You will be missing at least another 10% in dmg increase by reaching CP1200. You would likely gain another 5%~ going from 1200-1800.

It is a ridiculous grind and a game breaking level of diference in PVP.

The vertical progression should COMPLETELY STOP by CP1200 (i'd argue lower but they never will).

It should be OPTIONS and horizontal progression from 1200+, like was originally discussed in the reveal video.

Whoever thought this was a good idea needs to lose their job, honestly speechless that it could progress so far as an 'idea' in any company wanting to retain its customer base.

I was watching a content creator go through and do some parsing on the PTS. There was about a 30% difference between No-CP and Max-CP 75k no-cp, 100k cp (on stamplar)

On Live currently, there is about a 100% difference (55k no-cp, 110k cp). (Magicka classes were nerfed LESS)

So, low CP players get a pretty significant boost to DPS, due to the increased stats at the bottom. Top tier DPS will see a little bit of a nerf (although some of this will be mitigated by new sets, buffs in group content, etc). The damage ramped up quick, so that just below 1000 CP, you had most of your damage passives (your 4 slottables, easily the most powerful of the stars, and a couple of others), and then it was only minor gains to about 1200-1300 where you had ALL of your main stat increases... then from there it was off-stat and off-healing.

Also, because of the changes to the curve, your CP gain from 800-1800 is going to be like 4x as fast as what you have now on Live. You also have 2 double XP events happening back to back with Jester's and Anniversary. The leveling is going to fly by with those combations.

I've also played BDO, only briefly admittingly, and the reason I quit was because of the grind. Leveling past 60 in BDO is complete and utter insanity, and I feel comparing that to ESO is disingenuous. With enlightenment in ESO, they're giving you at least 1 CP a day in that 800-1200 range just for doing a single random normal. Without even "grinding", especially during the double XP events, you can easily gain 4-6 CP a day, with grinding 12-20 (or more) if you wanted. I'm stockpiling my master writs from doing my daily writs. I'll be able to easily gain dozens of CP from them (and I'm at 2000+, so I still have the 50% penalty)

That said, I'm going to trust the content creator who's put out dozens of builds, has all the "end-game" content cleared and titles, and when they say that 95% of the vertical progression is done before you hit CP1000, I believe them. I came to a similar conclusion myself. (Now, it WAS ~1200 BEFORE they made the changes to some of the stars)

Think about what you just said for a minute, for casuals and non-hardcore players. 1 free CP a day would take over a year (assuming they are even 810 atm). Assuming working or casual players get 2-3 hours a day to play at best, that is a ridiculous grind investment they need to make to continue to be equal to hardcore players for CP PVP and endgame trials.

Exp is 4x faster than it currently is, but its still ABSURDLY SLOW from 810-1200 to get back to being competitive, It is the equivelnt of grinding roughly 500>810 on live, its a BIG grind, even hardcore 5-10 hour a day players would be looking at weeks of grind. How is that appealing or acceptable to anyone is beyond me.

You will be competitive at less than 1000 CP. If you're already at 810, you are likely already very close to being there.

Player skill is much much more important than your CP. A skilled player at CP800 will beat a less skilled player at CP1200 every single time in the next update. The power delta between those will be measured in the single percentage points.

That 1 free CP is from literally doing a 10 minute random normal or a 15-minute random BG. Or go spend 20 minutes questing, you'll use up your enlightenment as you kill stuff. Do 5 alchemy master writs, you'll use up your enlightenment. For the rest of your time, you'll still be earning CP.

This myth that you will need 1500/1800/2100 CP (I've seen all these numbers stated) to do end-game PVP or PVE needs to be put to rest. You are talking about fractional, marginal gains beyond CP1000, where your skill as a player is going to matter way more than your CP level. Way more.

I get that everybody "wants to be max level" but I, for one, am happy, ecstatic, joyous, that I will be able to have some sense of progression again for the first time in years... even if it is extremely tiny. I will actually earn a CP and go "Hey, I can go spend that now" after years of being at the "cap"

tmbrinks

starkerealm wrote: »

As of this week, Meticulous Disassembly appears to have no effect on characters with maxed out extraction passives.

(This was tested with jewelry crafting specifically, as raw jewelry mats are included with the template bags, but not for the other crafting skill lines.)

I did a test with a combined 800,000 materials from the craft bag.

I recorded the drop rates of terne, iridium, zircon, and chromium grains

I ran a binomial distribution test to check the percentile of my drops versus the accepted drop rates of 1.5%, 1.25%, 0.75% and 0.5% respectively of the materials (to check if it was due to luck or a change) and found that my drops with Meticulous Disassembly were in the 99.99+ percentile (essentially 100%), so could conclude definitively that it was increasing the drop rates.

I estimate the drop rate to be increased by +12.5% (1 in 8), but it would require quite a bit more testing to determine the exact number. (+10% was also statistically unlikely, as those were in the 85+ percentile for the drop rates, 95+ for 3/4)

I am more than 90% sure the additional drop is between 10% and 15% with the data I collected.

Link to my data is in my writ spreadsheet, under the Meticulous Disassembly tab, which is in my signature below.

BalticBlues

I remember when I reached level 50.
I thought, boy, you made it!
Then I realized how my gear sucked.
So I started to go for CP160.

I remember when I reached CP160.
I thought, boy, you made it!
Then I realized how I sucked in Vet DLC content.
So I started to go for CP400.

I remember when I reached CP400.
I thought, boy, you made it!
Then I realized how I still had half the way to go to max CP.
So I started to go for CP810.

I remember when I reached CP810.
I thought, boy, you made it!
Never having to grind CP again.
This must have been the most joyful day in my ESO career.

Now people realize that we soon will have CP3600.
3600 is 4.5x CP810.
4.5 times of all the grind we endured.

No matter how ZOS will scale the XP-CP curve,
this will discourage A LOT OF people, from beginners to longtime players.
I already know people between 8xx and 9xx CP who stopped playing.
Does it really make sense to satisfy a handful of CP1xxx champs to discourage so many people?

For example, my daughter. She only plays PvP and it took her years to reach CP810.
She currently is one of the best PvP players, does Top10 easily, currently on CP9xx.
However, in a few weeks her stats will be mediocre again compared to CP1800+ players.
ZOS devaluates her PvP stats. And she stopped playing ESO.

Secondsz

tmbrinks wrote: »

Secondsz wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Secondsz wrote: »

Installed the PTS and re-activated forums account just to leave feedback on the new CP system.

My partner already stopped playing after learning about the new CP system a couple of weeks ago, being told that she can no longer have all her crafting and gathering perks with CP550 and would have to grind out another 300 levels to get them back, she just threw her hands in the air and said F this game. I feel like this is going to be a very common response to CP 2.0 for overworld casuals.

Currently CP910 on live, I would need to grind out to CP1200 to start feeling 'competitive' and slotting 4 fully leveled stars and still missing A LOT of the passives.

Let me be clear, I am a FAN of grinding usually and enjoy it, but this grind is daunting and undesirable even to me (someone who grinding BDO and maplestory and runescape finds this new grind ridiculous).

Its too high.

No new player will want to play this game if it remains this way.

The vertical progression needs to be reigned in to MAX OUT at CP1200 (which most new people and casuals will still run from).

Even with the increased exp now extending to 1800, the grind is too much and people will feel like they cannot fairly compete in PVP or PVE until reaching that, which is ridiculous.

Let me be clear, at 900CP you will not be 'competitive'.

You will be missing at least another 10% in dmg increase by reaching CP1200. You would likely gain another 5%~ going from 1200-1800.

It is a ridiculous grind and a game breaking level of diference in PVP.

The vertical progression should COMPLETELY STOP by CP1200 (i'd argue lower but they never will).

It should be OPTIONS and horizontal progression from 1200+, like was originally discussed in the reveal video.

Whoever thought this was a good idea needs to lose their job, honestly speechless that it could progress so far as an 'idea' in any company wanting to retain its customer base.

I was watching a content creator go through and do some parsing on the PTS. There was about a 30% difference between No-CP and Max-CP 75k no-cp, 100k cp (on stamplar)

On Live currently, there is about a 100% difference (55k no-cp, 110k cp). (Magicka classes were nerfed LESS)

So, low CP players get a pretty significant boost to DPS, due to the increased stats at the bottom. Top tier DPS will see a little bit of a nerf (although some of this will be mitigated by new sets, buffs in group content, etc). The damage ramped up quick, so that just below 1000 CP, you had most of your damage passives (your 4 slottables, easily the most powerful of the stars, and a couple of others), and then it was only minor gains to about 1200-1300 where you had ALL of your main stat increases... then from there it was off-stat and off-healing.

Also, because of the changes to the curve, your CP gain from 800-1800 is going to be like 4x as fast as what you have now on Live. You also have 2 double XP events happening back to back with Jester's and Anniversary. The leveling is going to fly by with those combations.

I've also played BDO, only briefly admittingly, and the reason I quit was because of the grind. Leveling past 60 in BDO is complete and utter insanity, and I feel comparing that to ESO is disingenuous. With enlightenment in ESO, they're giving you at least 1 CP a day in that 800-1200 range just for doing a single random normal. Without even "grinding", especially during the double XP events, you can easily gain 4-6 CP a day, with grinding 12-20 (or more) if you wanted. I'm stockpiling my master writs from doing my daily writs. I'll be able to easily gain dozens of CP from them (and I'm at 2000+, so I still have the 50% penalty)

That said, I'm going to trust the content creator who's put out dozens of builds, has all the "end-game" content cleared and titles, and when they say that 95% of the vertical progression is done before you hit CP1000, I believe them. I came to a similar conclusion myself. (Now, it WAS ~1200 BEFORE they made the changes to some of the stars)

Think about what you just said for a minute, for casuals and non-hardcore players. 1 free CP a day would take over a year (assuming they are even 810 atm). Assuming working or casual players get 2-3 hours a day to play at best, that is a ridiculous grind investment they need to make to continue to be equal to hardcore players for CP PVP and endgame trials.

Exp is 4x faster than it currently is, but its still ABSURDLY SLOW from 810-1200 to get back to being competitive, It is the equivelnt of grinding roughly 500>810 on live, its a BIG grind, even hardcore 5-10 hour a day players would be looking at weeks of grind. How is that appealing or acceptable to anyone is beyond me.

You will be competitive at less than 1000 CP. If you're already at 810, you are likely already very close to being there.

Player skill is much much more important than your CP. A skilled player at CP800 will beat a less skilled player at CP1200 every single time in the next update. The power delta between those will be measured in the single percentage points.

That 1 free CP is from literally doing a 10 minute random normal or a 15-minute random BG. Or go spend 20 minutes questing, you'll use up your enlightenment as you kill stuff. Do 5 alchemy master writs, you'll use up your enlightenment. For the rest of your time, you'll still be earning CP.

This myth that you will need 1500/1800/2100 CP (I've seen all these numbers stated) to do end-game PVP or PVE needs to be put to rest. You are talking about fractional, marginal gains beyond CP1000, where your skill as a player is going to matter way more than your CP level. Way more.

I get that everybody "wants to be max level" but I, for one, am happy, ecstatic, joyous, that I will be able to have some sense of progression again for the first time in years... even if it is extremely tiny. I will actually earn a CP and go "Hey, I can go spend that now" after years of being at the "cap"

Congratulations for being in the extreme vast minority of players.

I've already tested it all day, spending different amount of CP for different level simulations. It is roughly the percentages I reported. That is not minor and not a margin skill can make up for.

I did this through using the character im comfortable with and dont make mistakes with as well as creating a new 'fool proof' build to keep it simple and compare the numbers.

It is not a myth, PVP will be an advantage to people up to and beyond 1800 (where it truly becomes more about player skill.

Extra resources, regen, healing and damage from passives you cannot max before that while maintaining your slotted pvp skills at max. Let alone having others levels to swap in situationally (how the system was presented to us).

Assuming people grind for 20CP a day (who has time), that's 5 days per 100 levels. For a CP810 player, that is 20 days of straight grinding to be 'competitive' and relatively fairly matched for PVE.

Then another 30 days for PVP players to reach 1800 to be fairly matched (actually longer, it will take more time to grind those 20 levels a day from 1200-1800).

That is already almost 2 months of straight grinding for PVP players to JUST BE ON EVEN FOOTING (and not even 100% even). Assuming they dont miss a single day, get bored of it or quit.

*And this is all assuming we have permanent 2x exp even* Sad. Really sad.

The only easily implemented and palatable solution here is to:

A. Scale our exp earned to the CP we should be in the new system (including those well above CP 2k)
B. Scale back the vertical progression for PVP down to 1200 so that there is 0 advantage gained and just alternatives. (still an unwanted, un-asked for and tedious grind back to end game parity).

I will no longer respond to your attempts to maintain a performance advantage over 99% of the player base at the expense of tested feedback that affects the many, not the few.

Shantu

Nobody likes years of effort to achieve personal thresholds of performance consistently diminished patch after patch after patch. CP 2.0 is like an insult on steroids.

tmbrinks

Secondsz wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Secondsz wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Secondsz wrote: »

Installed the PTS and re-activated forums account just to leave feedback on the new CP system.

My partner already stopped playing after learning about the new CP system a couple of weeks ago, being told that she can no longer have all her crafting and gathering perks with CP550 and would have to grind out another 300 levels to get them back, she just threw her hands in the air and said F this game. I feel like this is going to be a very common response to CP 2.0 for overworld casuals.

Currently CP910 on live, I would need to grind out to CP1200 to start feeling 'competitive' and slotting 4 fully leveled stars and still missing A LOT of the passives.

Let me be clear, I am a FAN of grinding usually and enjoy it, but this grind is daunting and undesirable even to me (someone who grinding BDO and maplestory and runescape finds this new grind ridiculous).

Its too high.

No new player will want to play this game if it remains this way.

The vertical progression needs to be reigned in to MAX OUT at CP1200 (which most new people and casuals will still run from).

Even with the increased exp now extending to 1800, the grind is too much and people will feel like they cannot fairly compete in PVP or PVE until reaching that, which is ridiculous.

Let me be clear, at 900CP you will not be 'competitive'.

You will be missing at least another 10% in dmg increase by reaching CP1200. You would likely gain another 5%~ going from 1200-1800.

It is a ridiculous grind and a game breaking level of diference in PVP.

The vertical progression should COMPLETELY STOP by CP1200 (i'd argue lower but they never will).

It should be OPTIONS and horizontal progression from 1200+, like was originally discussed in the reveal video.

Whoever thought this was a good idea needs to lose their job, honestly speechless that it could progress so far as an 'idea' in any company wanting to retain its customer base.

I was watching a content creator go through and do some parsing on the PTS. There was about a 30% difference between No-CP and Max-CP 75k no-cp, 100k cp (on stamplar)

On Live currently, there is about a 100% difference (55k no-cp, 110k cp). (Magicka classes were nerfed LESS)

So, low CP players get a pretty significant boost to DPS, due to the increased stats at the bottom. Top tier DPS will see a little bit of a nerf (although some of this will be mitigated by new sets, buffs in group content, etc). The damage ramped up quick, so that just below 1000 CP, you had most of your damage passives (your 4 slottables, easily the most powerful of the stars, and a couple of others), and then it was only minor gains to about 1200-1300 where you had ALL of your main stat increases... then from there it was off-stat and off-healing.

Also, because of the changes to the curve, your CP gain from 800-1800 is going to be like 4x as fast as what you have now on Live. You also have 2 double XP events happening back to back with Jester's and Anniversary. The leveling is going to fly by with those combations.

I've also played BDO, only briefly admittingly, and the reason I quit was because of the grind. Leveling past 60 in BDO is complete and utter insanity, and I feel comparing that to ESO is disingenuous. With enlightenment in ESO, they're giving you at least 1 CP a day in that 800-1200 range just for doing a single random normal. Without even "grinding", especially during the double XP events, you can easily gain 4-6 CP a day, with grinding 12-20 (or more) if you wanted. I'm stockpiling my master writs from doing my daily writs. I'll be able to easily gain dozens of CP from them (and I'm at 2000+, so I still have the 50% penalty)

That said, I'm going to trust the content creator who's put out dozens of builds, has all the "end-game" content cleared and titles, and when they say that 95% of the vertical progression is done before you hit CP1000, I believe them. I came to a similar conclusion myself. (Now, it WAS ~1200 BEFORE they made the changes to some of the stars)

Think about what you just said for a minute, for casuals and non-hardcore players. 1 free CP a day would take over a year (assuming they are even 810 atm). Assuming working or casual players get 2-3 hours a day to play at best, that is a ridiculous grind investment they need to make to continue to be equal to hardcore players for CP PVP and endgame trials.

Exp is 4x faster than it currently is, but its still ABSURDLY SLOW from 810-1200 to get back to being competitive, It is the equivelnt of grinding roughly 500>810 on live, its a BIG grind, even hardcore 5-10 hour a day players would be looking at weeks of grind. How is that appealing or acceptable to anyone is beyond me.

You will be competitive at less than 1000 CP. If you're already at 810, you are likely already very close to being there.

Player skill is much much more important than your CP. A skilled player at CP800 will beat a less skilled player at CP1200 every single time in the next update. The power delta between those will be measured in the single percentage points.

That 1 free CP is from literally doing a 10 minute random normal or a 15-minute random BG. Or go spend 20 minutes questing, you'll use up your enlightenment as you kill stuff. Do 5 alchemy master writs, you'll use up your enlightenment. For the rest of your time, you'll still be earning CP.

This myth that you will need 1500/1800/2100 CP (I've seen all these numbers stated) to do end-game PVP or PVE needs to be put to rest. You are talking about fractional, marginal gains beyond CP1000, where your skill as a player is going to matter way more than your CP level. Way more.

I get that everybody "wants to be max level" but I, for one, am happy, ecstatic, joyous, that I will be able to have some sense of progression again for the first time in years... even if it is extremely tiny. I will actually earn a CP and go "Hey, I can go spend that now" after years of being at the "cap"

I will no longer respond to your attempts to maintain a performance advantage over 99% of the player base at the expense of tested feedback that affects the many, not the few.

I stand by what I said with my own personal testing, and the testing of somebody who I personally know, and that I know tests these things extensively. I'm going to trust their opinion and analysis. Sorry, I simply don't know who you are, but I know them.

There is no need for you to assume I have an ulterior motive... when I'm just simply reporting what I've seen and observed.