Harder Main Story Bosses
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Seminolegirl1992✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Nor can you.
Overland loot from World Bosses, Harrowstorms and Dragons are fine for players who don't do vet content. And the OP already said he would expect the loot to scale with the increased difficulty like vet dungeons and trials do. So, yes it's about the loot.
I'm directly referring to things players have said in this forum. You said, "I know that is what some of them say, but in reality they just want vet level loot to drop from every single aspect of the game. But if they say that they don't garner as much sympathy." You cannot make that judgment for any of us. Yes it makes sense that purple loot instead of blue drop in increased difficulty...but purple doesn't make the gear good, it's still trash. You mention that overland loot is good for non vet players then go on to say that even though we don't care for the loot because it's useless, we somehow still want it. Something's not adding up here. Personally, I think the majority of people asking for harder quest content want immersion. Not one "vet" player here has said they want it to be harder so they can get stuff. Not. One. A side effect, yes. But that is not what draws them. I couldn't give two poop noodles if they added foul hide x100 or nothing at all, I want to fight a challenge when going against a daedric prince, not a flimsy mudcrab. Who here has said that, "I want story bosses to be harder so I can get good loot?" Who? No one. The OP obviously mentioned that different achievements would be associated or cosmetics but I guaranfreakingtee you not one of us cares about that in comparison to immersion.@Seminolegirl1992 PC/NA CP 2400+ PVE, PVP, RP, Housing: Tel Galen, Fair Winds, Moon Sugar, Grand Psijic, Forsaken, HOTLC, Bastion, Ravenhurst, Gardner, Alinor, Hakkvild's, Gorinir, Kragenhome, Hundings, & more- feel free to come see! Wish listSpoilerFormer Empress | Swashbuckler Supreme | Planesbreaker | Godslayer | Gryphon Heart | Immortal Redeemer | Tick Tock Tormentor | Dro-m'athra Destroyer | Dawnbringer2 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »
Overland loot from World Bosses, Harrowstorms and Dragons are fine for players who don't do vet content. And the OP already said he would expect the loot to scale with the increased difficulty like vet dungeons and trials do. So, yes it's about the loot.
No Where Was This Said - I think you may be confusing this for another thread.
in the OP I said:
This is specifically referring to cosmetic itemsThey could earn titles, colors, emotes, costumes, pets, mounts, decorations, single signature motif item, etc.
The quality of the item would be dependent on the achievement accomplished.
No where in the OP was it suggested that players could farm for sets related to the zone & dolmens. I offered cosmetic items as a compromise for "rewards".
In the "Rewards" section of the OP I said:Overall the point being is that this is a story boss and not a dungeon or trial, also the focus of this post is on the challenge and not monetary reward.
I had an idea at the top of my head to add a mythic item for each boss BUT I gave it a strong maybe and am not really sold on it.
From the OP(EDIT#2: But maybe a mythic item tied to a specific Story Boss would be cool)
This is a problem with not thoroughly reading the content because it may lead to misconceptions and/or assumptions.
imo I think there is a difference between the Campaign and the general Overland. As someone else pointed out, the Main Story is marketed to all players as a major selling point - not just new players or those with an only casual play style - but those who also participate in veteran to endgame content.
In my opinion, the story does not feel like it is for everyone but rather one group. and saying that people who play hard content ONLY want dungeons and raids is simply untrue.
Also you remark on dealing with people who tell others to "Get Gud" if they want to play harder content, how that really enforces a divide.
Yet when other players ask for an option to make story bosses more enjoyable you do not see the issue with them being told "Just Nerf yourself" or "You have dungeons & Trials, be Happy" contributing to the cycle of dismissing their opinions - not accounting for the fact that not everyone wants to do Vet Group content. No one has bashed on "casual players" quite the opposite in fact.
There's alot more to the people in favor of the basic idea (not necessarily the whole proposal but they don't like the current state of the story and want to see improvements) and I think it is disingenuous to reduce them to just one group that has a secret agenda. Basically calling them liars.2 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭What's the point in telling a story of an indredibly powerful ancient vampire when he represents no danger at all for the player ?
I'm bored with this direction from the leading team. That's why I don't pay eso plus anymore, or buy content.
Same
I mean also busy with school but the new story held little interest for me because I didn't want to play yet another "World ending boss" who wasn't a threat in the gameplay and didn't have challenging mechanics.
EDIT: If the story says the bad guy is a really big deal then I want the gameplay to reflect that.
EDIT #2: Especially when the main villain of a story arc is in CGI cinematics and the poster of a DLC
Edited by Iccotak on November 25, 2020 9:20AM1 -
Seminolegirl1992✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »
This suggestion doesn't even address that, it's literally just a separate repeatable loot farm, because OP assumes the devs would do a bad job if it wasn't repeatable and that only repeatable content could be difficult. So his solution is to grab a group, queue up, and go farm your story quest loot.
As far as questing go, this actually cheapens the quality of quests and doesn't address story beat at all. It also completely destorys the "once and for all" story element of bosses that comes with them being one offs.
What loot are vet players wanting to farm exactly? So let's take a look at Summerset main quests, arguably a fan favorite for its richness in quests. This is what drops: Wisdom of Vanus
LEVEL 50 - CP 160
Type Overland
Set bonus
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(4 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(5 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage, After completing a fully-charged Heavy Attack, you gain Major Mending for 5 seconds, increasing your Healing Done by 16%. This duration is increased with each rank of the Restoration Staff Passive of Essence Drain when using a Restoration Staff.
.....no vet wants this set. No vet wants to waste their time farming quests. If they're going to farm, they're going to farm Rivenspire for chests for Mother's Sorrow. Not a quest line when all they want is immersion.@Seminolegirl1992 PC/NA CP 2400+ PVE, PVP, RP, Housing: Tel Galen, Fair Winds, Moon Sugar, Grand Psijic, Forsaken, HOTLC, Bastion, Ravenhurst, Gardner, Alinor, Hakkvild's, Gorinir, Kragenhome, Hundings, & more- feel free to come see! Wish listSpoilerFormer Empress | Swashbuckler Supreme | Planesbreaker | Godslayer | Gryphon Heart | Immortal Redeemer | Tick Tock Tormentor | Dro-m'athra Destroyer | Dawnbringer2 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »
What loot are vet players wanting to farm exactly? So let's take a look at Summerset main quests, arguably a fan favorite for its richness in quests. This is what drops: Wisdom of Vanus
LEVEL 50 - CP 160
Type Overland
Set bonus
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(4 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(5 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage, After completing a fully-charged Heavy Attack, you gain Major Mending for 5 seconds, increasing your Healing Done by 16%. This duration is increased with each rank of the Restoration Staff Passive of Essence Drain when using a Restoration Staff.
.....no vet wants this set. No vet wants to waste their time farming quests. If they're going to farm, they're going to farm Rivenspire for chests for Mother's Sorrow. Not a quest line when all they want is immersion.
Also sounds like alot of work to farm a story boss encounter get so little, like one item. When they could go play overland and get twice that in less than half the time1 -
Seminolegirl1992✭✭✭✭✭
No Where Was This Said - I think you may be confusing this for another thread.
in the OP I said: This is specifically referring to cosmetic items
No where in the OP was it suggested that players could farm for sets related to the zone & dolmens. I offered cosmetic items as a compromise for "rewards".
In the "Rewards" section of the OP I said:
I had an idea at the top of my head to add a mythic item for each boss BUT I gave it a strong maybe and am not really sold on it.
From the OP
This is a problem with not thoroughly reading the content because it may lead to misconceptions and/or assumptions.
imo I think there is a difference between the Campaign and the general Overland. As someone else pointed out, the Main Story is marketed to all players as a major selling point - not just new players or those with an only casual play style - but those who also participate in veteran to endgame content.
In my opinion, the story does not feel like it is for everyone but rather one group. and saying that people who play hard content ONLY want dungeons and raids is simply untrue.
Also you remark on dealing with people who tell others to "Get Gud" if they want to play harder content, how that really enforces a divide.
Yet when other players ask for an option to make story bosses more enjoyable you do not see the issue with them being told "Just Nerf yourself" or "You have dungeons & Trials, be Happy" contributing to the cycle of dismissing their opinions - not accounting for the fact that not everyone wants to do Vet Group content. No one has bashed on "casual players" quite the opposite in fact.
There's alot more to the people in favor of the basic idea (not necessarily the whole proposal but they don't like the current state of the story and want to see improvements) and I think it is disingenuous to reduce them to just one group that has a secret agenda. Basically calling them liars.
Definitely a double standard. Apparently "end gamers" only do vet trial content and aren't allowed to have immersive story content. Get gud is just as bad as saying nerf yourself or be happy with trials. It's an rpg....stands for roleplaying game. I don't think it's called tpg for trials for a reason. People bought this game because there's a story here.@Seminolegirl1992 PC/NA CP 2400+ PVE, PVP, RP, Housing: Tel Galen, Fair Winds, Moon Sugar, Grand Psijic, Forsaken, HOTLC, Bastion, Ravenhurst, Gardner, Alinor, Hakkvild's, Gorinir, Kragenhome, Hundings, & more- feel free to come see! Wish listSpoilerFormer Empress | Swashbuckler Supreme | Planesbreaker | Godslayer | Gryphon Heart | Immortal Redeemer | Tick Tock Tormentor | Dro-m'athra Destroyer | Dawnbringer2 -
Seminolegirl1992✭✭✭✭✭
Also sounds like alot of work to farm a story boss encounter get so little, like one item. When they could go play overland and get twice that in less than half the time
I can't imagine banging my head against my keyboard farming Summerset on all 14 of my toons for that Wisdom of Vanus.... woof that would be terrible. People only farm sets like Mother's Sorrow from chests and public dungeons. Not the main story. That doesn't happen. At all. Spinner's is farmed from dolmens, chests, the public dungeon. Briarheart. Spriggan's. But people don't farm the quests....that would be plain silly. End gamers usually focus on dungeon/trial gear and occasionally a crafted set, with the exceptions listed above and a few other niche sets that are rarely used. Again, people don't farm the quests for them.@Seminolegirl1992 PC/NA CP 2400+ PVE, PVP, RP, Housing: Tel Galen, Fair Winds, Moon Sugar, Grand Psijic, Forsaken, HOTLC, Bastion, Ravenhurst, Gardner, Alinor, Hakkvild's, Gorinir, Kragenhome, Hundings, & more- feel free to come see! Wish listSpoilerFormer Empress | Swashbuckler Supreme | Planesbreaker | Godslayer | Gryphon Heart | Immortal Redeemer | Tick Tock Tormentor | Dro-m'athra Destroyer | Dawnbringer2 -
Olauron✭✭✭✭✭
✭overland content is NOT going to be end game difficulty. just have an option for those who want some challenge with their story - to have that challenge. you. will NOT. have. to DO that.
Not have to do that? You must be kidding. With the current drop rates of leads the maximum difficulty with the maximum chance would be absolute must.
Yes, I don't see any reason to change the presentation of the story for players who can't enjoy the story and can only enjoy the difficulty.SilverBride wrote: »I know that is what some of them say, but in reality they just want vet level loot to drop from every single aspect of the game. But if they say that they don't garner as much sympathy.
This is not a school. Push me to learn something I will never need in a game, and I will find better game.In the end, it pushed players to learn and improved. That is beneficial to the game.Edited by Olauron on November 25, 2020 10:12AMThe Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
One mer to rule them all,
one mer to find them,
One mer to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.1 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
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maybe its because I came to the game from swtor.... but.. I'm not sure how having story be repeatable - destroys that story.
It kills the climatic tension of this being the final encounter. It's why most games don't have repeatable quests also be the most important story quests.
On top of that from a player agency pov, people tend to rush through repeatable content and not pay as much attention in a way they just don't with content they will only see once. The "scarcity" of the content adds to the hype.Edited by spartaxoxo on November 25, 2020 10:40AM1 -
WeerW3ir✭✭✭✭✭
✭Im agaisnt this. On my main who is a tank its already a pain to do them xD. (no im not going dd for quest)2 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »The OP obviously mentioned that different achievements would be associated or cosmetics but I guaranfreakingtee you not one of us cares about that in comparison to immersion.
It's hard to beleive that when someone fights quite aggressively against a solution that would give increased immersion but not extra loot.Seminolegirl1992 wrote: ».
.....no vet wants this set. No vet wants to waste their time farming quests. If they're going to farm, they're going to farm Rivenspire for chests for Mother's Sorrow. Not a quest line when all they want is immersion.
They don't want that, but they will want the titles, cosmetics, dyes, etc. They are a major selling point of this game, and very important to a lot of people.Edited by spartaxoxo on November 25, 2020 10:38AM2 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I liked how the elsweyr chapter and dlc dragon final bosses actually presented a challenge, that I had to endure through and fight properly, it brought back memories of the challenge that's involved in fighting molag bal.
The Vvardenfell, Clockwork, Summerset, and ESPECIALLY Greymoor final bosses...
Dead in five seconds.
My reaction?
"Lame..."
Yeah, Rada Al Saran was also one that they tried to do more things with, still very much tailor-made for casuals but slightly harder than other main story quest bosses.0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
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Not have to do that? You must be kidding. With the current drop rates of leads the maximum difficulty with the maximum chance would be absolute must.
Yes, I don't see any reason to change the presentation of the story for players who can't enjoy the story and can only enjoy the difficulty.
This is not a school. Push me to learn something I will never need in a game, and I will find better game.
ok, so lets not have the leads drop more. it was just one idea. keep it to loot being purple with a chance of gold and if we are going with overland as well - master chests. all it is is decon fodder anyways, so its just some purple mats maybe. not like you cannot get them easier by just farming and refining. a nod to doing something extra.
the point is - presentation of the story IS important and players seem to not be enjoying the story as much BECAUSE of its presentation. also, i didn't say change. I'm very AGAINST change. I said ADD to. as an OPTIONAL difficulty.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***3 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »
It kills the climatic tension of this being the final encounter. It's why most games don't have repeatable quests also be the most important story quests.
On top of that from a player agency pov, people tend to rush through repeatable content and not pay as much attention in a way they just don't with content they will only see once. The "scarcity" of the content adds to the hype.
people who do not enjoy the story, rush through it whether its hard or easy. people who enjoy the story - take their time, even when they repeat it. it kill climactic tension for YOU. for other people, climactic tension is killed because the bosses are tuned for someone like me and as such - die anticlimactically when they fight them, which ALSO removes the tension. for them. different folks, different strokes. its not like you are forced to repeat anything anyway. its an OPTION, not a requirement.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***4 -
Olauron✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Regarding rewards:
ok, so lets not have the leads drop more. it was just one idea. keep it to loot being purple with a chance of gold and if we are going with overland as well - master chests. all it is is decon fodder anyways, so its just some purple mats maybe. not like you cannot get them easier by just farming and refining. a nod to doing something extra.
the point is - presentation of the story IS important and players seem to not be enjoying the story as much BECAUSE of its presentation. also, i didn't say change. I'm very AGAINST change. I said ADD to. as an OPTIONAL difficulty.
You see, increasing rewards with increased difficulty is already a game design error. Increased rewards work against increased difficulty. When you really want to increase the difficulty, you don't just make a random decision to increase damage of enemies and decrease damage of character. You look at the reason why normal difficulty is too easy and make changes according to this reason. Such changes include, but not limited to:
- decreasing gameplay rewards to slow character wealth progression;
- decreasing experience earned to slow character power progression;
- putting a cap on allowed gear (for example, only green and lower quality gear is possible to be used);
- adding disadvantages to set items (every tier of the set has not only advantages, but also disadvantages, and the more items from the set you have, the more disadvantages you get);
- slowing ultimate points generation from all sources;
- increasing global cooldown from 1 second to 2 and more (the bigger cooldown for harder difficulties);
- increasing dot (and hot) tic time 2 times or more (the bigger time between tic for harder difficulties without increasing the overall time of dot or hot);
- etc.
Now, master chests are exceptionally not good idea, as master chests have an increased chance to get paintings. Do you know the price of paintings? Do you want to increase the wealth of self-proclaimed veterans that much? Do you want to still call this difficulty optional, when player has a choice to either buy a painting from the crown store, or from those self-proclaimed veterans for astronomical prices, or to farm in "optional" veteran mode?
Regarding story:
Presentation of the story in not that important. If someone can't enjoy the story, because he is too powerful, he simply can't enjoy the story and needs artificial difficulty (do you really believe that some vampire has a chance against the defeater of Molag Bal?).
Sorry, no matter how big letters you use, when there are different rewards for different difficulties, nothing is truly optional. And this means change.Edited by Olauron on November 25, 2020 12:22PMThe Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
One mer to rule them all,
one mer to find them,
One mer to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.1 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
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people who do not enjoy the story, rush through it whether its hard or easy. people who enjoy the story - take their time, even when they repeat it. it kill climactic tension for YOU. for other people, climactic tension is killed because the bosses are tuned for someone like me and as such - die anticlimactically when they fight them, which ALSO removes the tension. for them. different folks, different strokes. its not like you are forced to repeat anything anyway. its an OPTION, not a requirement.
It kills it for most people, same as the anti-climatic nature of having easy boss fights. Like this is just a basic design reason why main story bosses in most video games aren't farmable and aren't pushovers.
You don't have to follow it but most video games do, even MMOs, because it works at creating memorable boss encounters. The characters that people tend to remember years later are usually (but not always) ones that weren't treated the same as all the other farming source mobs. You start farming it and suddenly the gameplay and not the story becomes more important, especially if someone is after a particular achievement or reward.
It becomes "I remember it took me weeks trying to learn mechanics before I got my skin" rather than "Adara'hai has such a beautiful voice and blah blah blah"
Epic Set pieces, once in a character's lifetime experience, difficult battles, and usually hype music and good dialogue.Edited by spartaxoxo on November 25, 2020 12:26PM0 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
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Sorry, no matter how big letters you use, when there are different rewards for different difficulties, nothing is truly optional. And this means change.
Breaking news: Singular subjective opinions dont change the objective meaning of a word.
Even with different rewards different difficulties are truly optional. The only way you are "forced" to do the different difficulty is if you WANT the reward AND there is no other way to obtain it. And even then you are never forced to get a certain reward, wanting to get it is optional not necessary.
Wanting a certain reward is inherently optional since no one is forced to get that certain reward.
Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.4 -
hafgood✭✭✭✭✭
✭I understand the problem. Some players find some of the content easy and want it made harder. And want better rewards because they completed it on the harder mode. So effectively perfected versions of every quest drop or overland set.
And that just increases the problem.
Hard mode = better sets = gets easier = shouts for even harder mode with even better gear by those players that have completed hard mode.
And them shouts for impossible mode, followed by god mode followed by.....
It goes on and on.
The game caters for the majority of its player base. I cannot see Zos investing huge amounts of money into a hard mode or a difficulty slider on bosses. Why? Because they didn't build the game engine to work that way so would have to do a total redesign at huge cost in order to do so. And because they know from the experience of the original pre OneTamriel game that it wasn't well received.
The difficult content that is there is touched by a small subset of the player base, I know plenty of players with no interest in dungeons let alone vet dungeons, increasing the difficulty of the game is just going to alienate these players regardless of whether its optional or not. Those players not wanting to and not able to complete hard mode will get toxic reactions and git gud from those who can and do (or indeed from those wannabees that can't but don't want to admit that).
Leave the game alone, fix the bugs and look for the challenge you need in trials and vet dungeons. Let Quests be available to all, regardless of ability and for everyone that finds it easy there will be two that struggle with it.
I did the Markath prologues on my main, last boss no issue, he was dead quickly. Ran it on a second character, think she was around level 35 at the time, with mismatched sets and not enough skills. That final boss was a challenge as he had mechanics I didn't see on my main1 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I understand the problem. Some players find some of the content easy and want it made harder. And want better rewards because they completed it on the harder mode. So effectively perfected versions of every quest drop or overland set.
And that just increases the problem.
Hard mode = better sets = gets easier = shouts for even harder mode with even better gear by those players that have completed hard mode.
And them shouts for impossible mode, followed by god mode followed by.....
It goes on and on.
The game caters for the majority of its player base. I cannot see Zos investing huge amounts of money into a hard mode or a difficulty slider on bosses. Why? Because they didn't build the game engine to work that way so would have to do a total redesign at huge cost in order to do so. And because they know from the experience of the original pre OneTamriel game that it wasn't well received.
The difficult content that is there is touched by a small subset of the player base, I know plenty of players with no interest in dungeons let alone vet dungeons, increasing the difficulty of the game is just going to alienate these players regardless of whether its optional or not. Those players not wanting to and not able to complete hard mode will get toxic reactions and git gud from those who can and do (or indeed from those wannabees that can't but don't want to admit that).
Leave the game alone, fix the bugs and look for the challenge you need in trials and vet dungeons. Let Quests be available to all, regardless of ability and for everyone that finds it easy there will be two that struggle with it.
I did the Markath prologues on my main, last boss no issue, he was dead quickly. Ran it on a second character, think she was around level 35 at the time, with mismatched sets and not enough skills. That final boss was a challenge as he had mechanics I didn't see on my main
Your first point about gear is nonsense. Every quest reward drop is either part of a set (so can be farmed easily in other ways, the last place I would look to farm a set piece is a quest reward) or is not part of a set (makes it worthless for people wanting to minmax). Following the pattern of normal vs. vet rewards in dungeons for example it would simply be in another quality, aka blue vs purple but the item remains the same. There are no perfected overland sets and I dont think there will ever be.
Towards people getting alienated by an optional difficulty: First of all its such a silly and selfish mindset just following the lines of "If I cant have it no one should". I dont get angry at there being fishing in dlc zones even tho I will never do it.
And secondly Zos releases dungeon dlcs arenas and trials and yet those "alienated" players are still here but an optional difficulty increase would make them quit?
Quests would still be available to all regardless of ability. No one here wants to force people into a harder difficulty thats why OP asks about an optional one, aka an addition of a harder difficulty that will do nothing towards the existing one which would still be the default.
Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.5 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
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Not one single person on this thread has asked for perfected gear, or really any sets. Not One. Most have already said that the reward matters little. Even if it’s just a dye and a title, Veteran mode has always had achievements that grant various cosmetics and all people have said is that if there is a veteran mode then it’d make sense that there were achievements because that is how any content with a veteran mode works.I understand the problem. Some players find some of the content easy and want it made harder. And want better rewards because they completed it on the harder mode. So effectively perfected versions of every quest drop or overland set.
The proposal does not support farming sets in any way.
The Game engine supports Normal and Veteran difficulty settings. The story bosses are already instanced content.The game caters for the majority of its player base. I cannot see Zos investing huge amounts of money into a hard mode or a difficulty slider on bosses. Why? Because they didn't build the game engine to work that way so would have to do a total redesign at huge cost in order to do so. And because they know from the experience of the original pre OneTamriel game that it wasn't well received.
Saying that the game engine doesn't support this, is untrue.The difficult content that is there is touched by a small subset of the player base, I know plenty of players with no interest in dungeons let alone vet dungeons, increasing the difficulty of the game is just going to alienate these players regardless of whether its optional or not. Those players not wanting to and not able to complete hard mode will get toxic reactions and git gud from those who can and do (or indeed from those wannabees that can't but don't want to admit that).
Like I said before in this thread, no one is saying that there is a lack of difficult content overall and to frame players issue with the story to be about not having enough hard content is dishonest at this point.it’s not that people are looking in the wrong direction for challenging or hard content - it’s that making the main antagonists incredibly easy makes them boring, unremarkable, and overall NOT fun. It can also undercut the story experience.
Even if you do nerf yourself it’s still not engaging- just tedious.
Me and other players want to look forward to fighting the main bad guy, not think “Well let’s get this over with”
To which I point to what was said previouslyLeave the game alone, fix the bugs and look for the challenge you need in trials and vet dungeons. Let Quests be available to all, regardless of ability and for everyone that finds it easy there will be two that struggle with it.
being told "Just Nerf yourself" or "You have dungeons & Trials, be Happy" contributing to the cycle of dismissing their their satisfaction with the story experience - not accounting for the fact that not everyone asking for harder content wants to do Vet Group content. Is just as bad as telling others to tell others to "Get Gud” - something you have pointed out is a negative.
And as others have said they want to be able to enjoy each new story with their main questing characters. Especially considering that the stories are a continuing narrative from the base game. Telling them to just make a new one for every chapter is not exactly a long term solution.I did the Markath prologues on my main, last boss no issue, he was dead quickly. Ran it on a second character, think she was around level 35 at the time, with mismatched sets and not enough skills. That final boss was a challenge as he had mechanics I didn't see on my main.
You say you understand the issue but each of your points show that you don’t and in fact showed that you have not been reading or listening to what anyone with views opposing yours have said.
EDIT: Corrected a wordEdited by Iccotak on November 25, 2020 3:07PM3 -
Olauron✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »
Breaking news: Singular subjective opinions dont change the objective meaning of a word.
Even with different rewards different difficulties are truly optional. The only way you are "forced" to do the different difficulty is if you WANT the reward AND there is no other way to obtain it. And even then you are never forced to get a certain reward, wanting to get it is optional not necessary.
Wanting a certain reward is inherently optional since no one is forced to get that certain reward.
Breaking news: paying for this game is optional and playing it is optional. But when I pay and play, I expect receiving all content I paid for. Since I am paying for this content, it is not optional. Optional content is content in DLC dungeons.
The Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
One mer to rule them all,
one mer to find them,
One mer to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.0 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
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Breaking news: paying for this game is optional and playing it is optional. But when I pay and play, I expect receiving all content I paid for. Since I am paying for this content, it is not optional. Optional content is content in DLC dungeons.
You did receive all the content - you're unwillingness to participate in everything does not make it inaccessible or unavailable.
Using your reasoning; I would expect to get all the main quest rewards for Elsweyr without even playing the main quest, or doing much of anything.3 -
Olauron✭✭✭✭✭
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Wrong. If I am not getting all rewards, I am not getting all content. Rewards are part of the content and part of the reason to pay for this content.
You did receive all the content - you're unwillingness to participate in everything does not make it inaccessible or unavailable.
Using your reasoning; I would expect to get all the main quest rewards for Elsweyr without even playing the main quest, or doing much of anything.
Using my reasoning, if I can't complete main quest for whatever reason and I am not getting either story or rewards, this product is not worth what is payed for it. Making a purchase is not recommended in this case.The Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
One mer to rule them all,
one mer to find them,
One mer to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.0 -
eKsDee✭✭✭✭✭Dude, it's a meaningless achievement, a dye that's probably gonna look like garbage on most gear since the dye system is inconsistent as all hell, a title that's meaningless, a costume that's probably just gonna collect dust, etc. If you really care that much about it that you'd be willing to tell everyone else that cannot enjoy themselves in this content to screw themselves just because you can't get meaningless pixels in a meaningless game that will be deleted when Zenimax decides to pull the plug and move on to the next meaningless game, I really don't know what to say to that without earning a warning from mods.4 -
Olauron✭✭✭✭✭
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1. Let me decide for myself what costume is meaningless and what is not. Thanks. Somehow I am able to do it every time something like this appears in crown store.Dude, it's a meaningless achievement, a dye that's probably gonna look like garbage on most gear since the dye system is inconsistent as all hell, a title that's meaningless, a costume that's probably just gonna collect dust, etc. If you really care that much about it that you'd be willing to tell everyone else that cannot enjoy themselves in this content to screw themselves just because you can't get meaningless pixels in a meaningless game that will be deleted when Zenimax decides to pull the plug and move on to the next meaningless game, I really don't know what to say to that without earning a warning from mods.
2. If people can't play more difficult content without getting more rewards they should pay for this content in addition to the payment for the normal content (actually, they should pay for it in addition in any case, so that no resources are removed from the development of normal content).The Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
One mer to rule them all,
one mer to find them,
One mer to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.0 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
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You are only not getting all the rewards if you decide to not play everything and not to work for certain rewards. It is still your choice.Wrong. If I am not getting all rewards, I am not getting all content. Rewards are part of the content and part of the reason to pay for this content.
If you choose to not play a Trial in a Chapter does that mean you are not getting all of the content? No, because you own that content and the rewards are still there should you choose to partake in that activity.
I don't have all the in-game obtainable motifs but that doesn't I am not getting all the content. It is still there, I just have to play the content and obtain them.4 -
Olauron✭✭✭✭✭
✭You are only not getting all the rewards if you decide to not play everything and not to work for certain rewards. It is still your choice.
If you choose to not play a Trial in a Chapter does that mean you are not getting all of the content? No, because you own that content and the rewards are still there should you choose to partake in that activity.
I don't have all the in-game obtainable motifs but that doesn't I am not getting all the content. It is still there, I just have to play the content and obtain them.
Reasons doesn't matter. Some rewards may be locked because of player physical limitations, some rewards may be locked because of player time limitations, some rewards may be locked because of player feelings limitations. The only thing matters for purchase is how much content you actually receive knowing your own limitations.
For example, trials are wasted content for me in Chapters. Include more of this type of content in any Chapter, and I will consider not buying it.The Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
One mer to rule them all,
one mer to find them,
One mer to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.0 -
hafgood✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Iccotak people mention better rewards for doing content. Better rewards always equates to more money and better gear, hence the not so stupid suggestion that what people want is perfected gear giving them better stats and making them more powerful.
The game engine supports vet / normal in specific circumstances not in overland, therefore I stand by my comment that the engine is not written in such a way that it can run two versions.
It might be possible for quests but who wants to run a quest again? And it you want the better rewards you would have to. I've done the quests on my main, all of them. I don't want to repeat them at a different difficulty level.
Oh and I do understand what you are saying. What you fail to understand is that I don't agree with you. I don't have to agree to understand.
I enjoy playing the game as it is now, I don't play the quests for some kind of massive fight at the end, I do them to enjoy the story, and that seems be be something you don't understand.
Everyone should be able to enjoy the story and take the same rewards from it. The same. Identical rewards. In fact I would go as far to say that you only get the rewards for doing it on normal. The only thing you should get for this mythical hard level is an achievement. And thats it. No gear. No gold. No experience. Nothing.
You say the hard mode is for a challenge. Well that's my solution. Hard mode with no reward. Now how many people want to do it? Not many I bet. Why, because on this and every thread asking for hard modes there is always the caveat that they want additional rewards for doing them. And that tells you its not about the hard mode but about what they can get from the hard mode.
Good luck getting support for a hard mode with no rewards5 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
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But again no one here in this thread has said or advocated for those kind of rewards. It is a general assumption you have made about anyone wanting a harder difficulty.@Iccotak people mention better rewards for doing content. Better rewards always equates to more money and better gear, hence the not so stupid suggestion that what people want is perfected gear giving them better stats and making them more powerful.
Again, story bosses are instanced scenarios. Not really Overland.game engine supports vet / normal in specific circumstances not in overland, therefore I stand by my comment that the engine is not written in such a way that it can run two versions
If it was overland that would mean wondering in the zone but they aren't. They are in an instanced combat scenario. Difficulty settings for those instances is not going to break the engine.
The entire quest line would not be repeatable - just the boss encounter. Just like you run a dungeon again and again. Because that's what the main story boss encounters really are - Easy Solo Dungeons.It might be possible for quests but who wants to run a quest again? And it you want the better rewards you would have to. I've done the quests on my main, all of them. I don't want to repeat them at a different difficulty level.
No one has really advocated for gold and gear, in fact the only main reward I have mentioned is achievements. Have you read anything that anyone has said?Everyone should be able to enjoy the story and take the same rewards from it. The same. Identical rewards. In fact I would go as far to say that you only get the rewards for doing it on normal. The only thing you should get for this mythical hard level is an achievement. And thats it. No gear. No gold. No experience. Nothing.
based on the reply I don't think you do. I don't think you've been reading what anyone has been saying because almost all of your claims of the OP as well as what others have said are baseless and do not line up at all. It's alot of malarkeyOh and I do understand what you are saying. What you fail to understand is that I don't agree with you. I don't have to agree to understand.2 -
hafgood✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Iccotak whatever.
You say I haven't read this thread yet I have. And many others along the same lines
I disagree with what you want.
You don't want people to disagree with you.
Thats fine.
Enjoy the rest of the thread as I will no longer comment as you do not want to listen to players that do not agree1
This discussion has been closed.