Harder Main Story Bosses

stefj68

not sure why u ask for harder contents, we do 4 dungeon boss, and 2-3 disconnect thats real hard!

Thundertalon

I agree, could def use stronger bosses. I remember how tough some were back just before One Tamriel. The vampire boss before meeting with Abnur, Orsinium final bosses, Gutsripper, Eastmarch final boss, Dark Brotherhood (multiple). Even some newer ones like Summerset final were a decent challenge. But the last two expansion quests are lackluster, especially if you compare them to group content (like harrowstorm shrikes)

Sylvermynx

Heh. I couldn't get past Gutsripper on a level 22 stamblade. Not enough firepower.... plus the mega ping on satellite. *sigh*

ke.sardenb14_ESO

@Seminolegirl1992
Right I hate when a new one drops and I have to rush because they reveal stuff about the zone content coming.

Gythral

Been there, done that , and you can see the results

Very early in it's life, story 'bosses' were harder & you had to learn the "mechanics" & guess what...
well, you can see the results...

ke.sardenb14_ESO

Gythral wrote: »

Been there, done that , and you can see the results

Very early in it's life, story 'bosses' where harder & you had to learn the "mechanics" & guess what...
well, you can see the results...

I remember those days, and loved it, but that is just me apparently....

SilverBride

ke.sardenb14_ESO wrote: »

show previous quotes

Gythral wrote: »

Been there, done that , and you can see the results

Very early in it's life, story 'bosses' where harder & you had to learn the "mechanics" & guess what...
well, you can see the results...

I remember those days, and loved it, but that is just me apparently....

I remember it, too and it wasn't fun. The boss fights took forever, and you had to complete them to move forward. It literally took hours because I occasionally had to walk away out of frustration. I eventually succeeded, but I didn't feel a sense of accomplishment. What I felt was "Thank goodness that **** is over!"

The parts that came next weren't any more fun. The quests Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold sent you to veteran versions of the other faction's zones. I completed them on one character but it was such a struggle I never did it again.

Then they introduced Craglorn... a zone with mobs so hard you were forced to group. There was no way to go in and quest at your own pace... you grouped and you did it how the group wanted to do it. That is when I took a long break from the game.

There is a reason they toned down the storyline bosses and removed the veteran zones. Because the way it was wasn't working for the majority of the players. And One Tamriel was introduced to unite the playerbase, because before you could only play with characters of your faction. Having a united playerbase really enhanced the experience.

So if they create veteran storyline quests and bosses, even if they are optional... and give better rewards, cosmetic or otherwise... that will separate us again. Not only physically in game, but it will create an even deeper rift between the average player and the end game players.

Iccotak

SilverBride wrote: »

I remember it, too and it wasn't fun. The boss fights took forever, and you had to complete them to move forward. It literally took hours because I occasionally had to walk away out of frustration. I eventually succeeded, but I didn't feel a sense of accomplishment. What I felt was "Thank goodness that **** is over!"

The parts that came next weren't any more fun. The quests Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold sent you to veteran versions of the other faction's zones. I completed them on one character but it was such a struggle I never did it again.

Then they introduced Craglorn... a zone with mobs so hard you were forced to group. There was no way to go in and quest at your own pace... you grouped and you did it how the group wanted to do it. That is when I took a long break from the game.

And under my proposal you would not be forced to do that.
You keep insinuating, or outright saying, that an optional veteran mode for a main story boss is equivalent to everyone being forced to participate a change in difficultly for all the content.
You keep saying that offering options is equivalent to everyone being forced to play the same way

SilverBride wrote: »

There is a reason they toned down the storyline bosses and removed the veteran zones. Because the way it was wasn't working for the majority of the players.

It did not work because it forced players and did not give them a choice in how they consumed that content for an entire Zone.

SilverBride wrote: »

And One Tamriel was introduced to unite the playerbase, because before you could only play with characters of your faction. Having a united playerbase really enhanced the experience.

Yes, One Tamriel gave the general populace more options. Which is what many people are asking for and others have no qualms about no matter their play-style.
(Edit: just like dungeons received normal and veteran modes at a later point in the games' life cycle no matter if they were early or late game)

SilverBride wrote: »

So if they create veteran storyline quests and bosses, even if they are optional... and give better rewards, cosmetic or otherwise... that will separate us again. Not only physically in game, but it will create an even deeper rift between the average player and the end game players.

The player base is already separated in the boss fights because they are instanced. It’s not like the players are all together at the same time when they fight them – and that would still not be the case under my proposal.

In fact an optional difficulty for the main story boss could bring more players together, because people like myself could get a couple of my friends and we could take on the story boss together. (which again would be designed to be beatable with or without up to 3 friends, no matter the difficulty)
This works better for a game that markets its story for everyone.
It would shrink the gap between casual and advanced play-styles by acting as a goal to encourage players to participate in more than one type of content, and maybe coming back to the zone to beat that content.

(Edit #2: and would give solo players challenging solo content which has been neglected despite demand seeing as how only this year ZOS added solo arena since 5 years ago)

Overall you are placing your enjoyment, and dislike of challenge, above others desire to have a choice in fighting the main story boss in a way that they enjoy.
(Which again self-nerfing or a one-off challenge banner does not and would not fix)
Even though it would not affect your ability to play the story and gain their already existing achievements & awards.
That is being exclusionary for arbitrary reasons.

Seminolegirl1992

SilverBride wrote: »

show previous quotes

ke.sardenb14_ESO wrote: »

Gythral wrote: »

Been there, done that , and you can see the results

Very early in it's life, story 'bosses' where harder & you had to learn the "mechanics" & guess what...
well, you can see the results...

I remember those days, and loved it, but that is just me apparently....

So if they create veteran storyline quests and bosses, even if they are optional... and give better rewards, cosmetic or otherwise... that will separate us again. Not only physically in game, but it will create an even deeper rift between the average player and the end game players.

Quite the opposite. Regular story quests are beginner. A harder quest line is a bridge between easy story and normal dungeons, then from there normal dlc dungeons, normal trials, then vet dungeons, then vet dlc dungeons, then vet trials, then vet dlc trials. It acts as a bridge between extremely easy content to more difficult content. The gap is so ridiculously large now because normal dungeons prepare players for quite literally...nothing. Optional quest difficulty might help bring in that gap some.

SilverBride

I'm not going to read all that. I've already given several reasons why this is a bad idea. Like the fact that veteran overland zones were removed because players weren't playing them and were leaving the game... and the current overland zones already scale to your level, so they should be fine just as they are. But I will give one more reason.

There is already enough toxicity being directed at casual players. We are being told on this forum all the time that if we aren't 3 hitting bosses, with one hand tied behind our backs, while eating a sandwich with the other and controlling the game with our feet, that we don't know how to play and we need to "git gud". So let's not add more vet content to have thrown in our faces.

We are not selfish because we don't think it's fair for a minority of players to get special customized questlines and bosses that reward them with special loot. Quest storylines that are the backbone of this game and are not meant to be challenging. They are meant to tell the story. And the story is for us all.

I want to add one more thing. We aren't trying to stop anyone from having fun. We are trying to stop the end game players from completely taking over our world.

idk

Gythral wrote: »

Been there, done that , and you can see the results

Very early in it's life, story 'bosses' were harder & you had to learn the "mechanics" & guess what...
well, you can see the results...

This is true. It did not take much to learn those mechanics either. Often a quick internet search or asking in guild provided the answer. Heck, NPC healers were much stronger as well. That alone taught players to interrupt or they would get frustrated.

In the end, it pushed players to learn and improved. That is beneficial to the game.

Edit: This does not mean I agree with what is being suggested. I think increasing the difficulty of content is a good idea, however, what is suggested is unnecessarily overly complicated and far beyond what is needed or should be considered.

All that is needed is more or less a return to how things were 6.5 years ago and a rebalancing of the game to account for the power creep. Of course, that will likely involve a gear cap increase as well but it would be worth it.

SilverBride

idk wrote: »

I think increasing the difficulty of content is a good idea.

The only way they can increase the difficulty of overland content is if they make it so you have to complete the zones in a linear fashion, with each zone becoming more difficult than the previous. But this would stop new players who joined the game for the new expansions and DLCs from even seeing that content for a very long time.

Having the zones scale to the player's level is the better choice, and is what is in place now. I'm not sure if that also takes gear into account, but if it doesn't, it should.

Dungeons and trials, however, could have another tier of difficulty added. This is done in other games and players seem satisfied with it. The one problem I see with that, however, is then there will be even more boredom with the base game by some of those players. But if they scale the zone more to the player, this shouldn't have to be so.

idk wrote: »

All that is needed is more or less a return to how things were 6.5 years ago.

The way things were back then didn't work. This is why it was changed. Going back would be a huge mistake.

Linaleah

SilverBride wrote: »

I'm not going to read all that. I've already given several reasons why this is a bad idea. Like the fact that veteran overland zones were removed because players weren't playing them and were leaving the game... and the current overland zones already scale to your level, so they should be fine just as they are. But I will give one more reason.

There is already enough toxicity being directed at casual players. We are being told on this forum, and even in this thread, that if we aren't 3 hitting bosses, with one hand tied behind our backs, while eating a sandwich with the other and controlling the game with our feet, that we don't know how to play and we need to "git gud". So let's not add more vet content to have thrown in our faces.

We are not selfish because we don't think it's fair for a minority of players to get special "optional" questlines and bosses that reward them with special loot. Quest storylines that are the backbone of this game and are not meant to be challenging. They are meant to tell the story. And the story is for us all.

I want to add one more thing. We aren't trying to stop you from having fun. We are trying to stop you from completely taking over our world.

I have to correct your statement about vet zones TBH.

original vet zones were a mess. because they spit the player base not into 3 groups, oh no. into 9 different groups. because at launch you could only play with your own alliance and unless I'm remembering it differently, different alliances had different zones at different difficulties.

having an optional vet difficulty. ONE, maybe two of them? while still letting people play with friends regardless of the alliance? is going to be a completely different story.

moreover, the original problem with Craglorn was that it was 1. end game only. 2. pretty much entirely group required. 3. had incredibly disappointing rewards for all the hassle. 4. its story was NOT repeatable, so once you are done? you are done. there was no incentive to help anyone else with those quests.

asking for optional harder story content =/= toxicity. you are not told to git gud. you are not having anything taken from you.

SO and I were talking today, while taking our usual walk with the dogs. he quit SO again, because he is a mid range player - far FAR better then me, but nowhere near the top either, and so overland at lvl 50 bored him, while pvp at lvl 50 he would eventually be thrown with players in BG that he couldn't hold his own against.

he's been playing a lot of Division 2 instead. and why? because there are 4 different overland modes in division, and he found one that gave him just enough challenge to keep him engaged but not so hard that he felt blocked from progressing. and the thing is... in Division 2 - you do get better rewards in harder difficulties. there is also that incentive. but they are not so game breaking that you feel forced into it. its just gear dropping at better quality, with better chance for better stats.

so that gave me an idea. what if harder overland in ESO - guarantees purple drops, with a low chance at gold? what if all chests become master chests? what if the chance of antiquity leads are doubled. still not guaranteed, but you have a higher chance of getting them? so there is an incentive to go, but because its not anything unique, its not gamebreaking. you are not losing out on anything unique if you do not go there.

yes, I do think that higher difficulty should come with at least slightly better rewards. among other things - its a precedent established in this game already via vet content. but at the same time - nothing is taken away from anyone.

please. stop being so possessive over story. me, i don't give a rat's patootie about challenge, I play all my rpg's on easiest available difficulty. however.. I know plenty of people and some of them seem to be in this very thread - who are more engaged with the story, NOT just combat - the story itself, when they are presented with a challenge. and right now, they are having hard time feeling engaged in a story. do they not deserve some enjoyment too?

Linaleah

idk wrote: »

show previous quotes

Gythral wrote: »

Been there, done that , and you can see the results

Very early in it's life, story 'bosses' were harder & you had to learn the "mechanics" & guess what...
well, you can see the results...

This is true. It did not take much to learn those mechanics either. Often a quick internet search or asking in guild provided the answer. Heck, NPC healers were much stronger as well. That alone taught players to interrupt or they would get frustrated.

In the end, it pushed players to learn and improved. That is beneficial to the game.

Edit: This does not mean I agree with what is being suggested. I think increasing the difficulty of content is a good idea, however, what is suggested is unnecessarily overly complicated and far beyond what is needed or should be considered.

All that is needed is more or less a return to how things were 6.5 years ago and a rebalancing of the game to account for the power creep. Of course, that will likely involve a gear cap increase as well but it would be worth it.

NO.

content should NOT be increased in dificulty. because THAT WILL UNDOUBETLY TAKE AWAY FROM CASUAL PLAYERS.

becasue guess what? in the end when pushed, most players do NOT learn and improve. they leave for other games where they do not feel frustrated. game developers have known this for decades. this is why outside of outliers like Sekiro and its ilk, vast VAST majority of story based games come with a selection of difficulty, from very easy to nightmarishly hard.

and no, DEAR GOD NO to gear cap increase. it will do nothing but annoying all the players who are NOT gear collecting junkies over having to run that treadmill for no good reason.

OPTIONAL HARDMODE IS THE WAY TO GO.

SilverBride

Linaleah wrote: »

so that gave me an idea. what if harder overland in ESO - guarantees purple drops, with a low chance at gold? what if all chests become master chests? what if the chance of antiquity leads are doubled. still not guaranteed, but you have a higher chance of getting them? so there is an incentive to go, but because its not anything unique, its not gamebreaking. you are not losing out on anything unique if you do not go there.

That is exactly what shouldn't happen. Why should end game players, who have multiple vet level dungeons and trials that already reward them with better loot also get it from the overland content that was never meant to be end game difficulty? It is not fair to the rest of the players, who are the vast majority by the way.

And a lot of players would argue your point about antiquity leads. I would be livid if select players were given the chance of double lead drops from doing a storyline quest, just because they want every single aspect of the game to cater to their playstyle.

Linaleah

SilverBride wrote: »

show previous quotes

Linaleah wrote: »

so that gave me an idea. what if harder overland in ESO - guarantees purple drops, with a low chance at gold? what if all chests become master chests? what if the chance of antiquity leads are doubled. still not guaranteed, but you have a higher chance of getting them? so there is an incentive to go, but because its not anything unique, its not gamebreaking. you are not losing out on anything unique if you do not go there.

That is exactly what shouldn't happen. Why should end game players, who have multiple vet level dungeons and trials that already reward them with better loot also get it from the overland content that was never ever meant to be end game difficulty? It is not fair to the rest of the players, who are the vast majority by the way.

And a lot of players would argue your point about antiquity leads. I would be livid if select players were given the chance of double lead drops just because they want every single aspect of the game to cater to their playstyle.

NO.

higher change. not a guarantee. and its not like there aren't already leads behind content that us casuals don't get to experience already. are you arguing against those as well. and at least in this case, those leads will STILL BE DROPPING IN NORMAL DIFFICULTY.

and you are creating this false dichotomy that you are either interested in raids or story. players who DO NOT GIVE A RAT'S BEHIND ABOUT RAIDS but really would like to enjoy the story DO exist. and they are NOT enjoying the story as its presented right now, because bosses are anticlimactic for them

overland content is NOT going to be end game difficulty. just have an option for those who want some challenge with their story - to have that challenge. you. will NOT. have. to DO that.

SilverBride

Linaleah wrote: »

and they are NOT enjoying the story as its presented right now, because bosses are anticlimactic for them

I know that is what some of them say, but in reality they just want vet level loot to drop from every single aspect of the game. But if they say that they don't garner as much sympathy.

Linaleah wrote: »

you. will NOT. have. to DO that.

No one will. I would be shocked if they even considered this, let alone implemented it.

Seminolegirl1992

SilverBride wrote: »

I'm not going to read all that. I've already given several reasons why this is a bad idea. Like the fact that veteran overland zones were removed because players weren't playing them and were leaving the game... and the current overland zones already scale to your level, so they should be fine just as they are. But I will give one more reason.

There is already enough toxicity being directed at casual players. We are being told on this forum all the time that if we aren't 3 hitting bosses, with one hand tied behind our backs, while eating a sandwich with the other and controlling the game with our feet, that we don't know how to play and we need to "git gud". So let's not add more vet content to have thrown in our faces.

We are not selfish because we don't think it's fair for a minority of players to get special customized questlines and bosses that reward them with special loot. Quest storylines that are the backbone of this game and are not meant to be challenging. They are meant to tell the story. And the story is for us all.

I want to add one more thing. We aren't trying to stop anyone from having fun. We are trying to stop the end game players from completely taking over our world.

Lol what? Noone here has bashed casual players. End game players aren't trying to take over the world. They're asking for an immersive questing experience because they love the game as much as you do. The stereotype that players who hit hard apparently only enjoy one tiny aspect of the game is horrendously false.

SilverBride

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

Lol what? Noone here has bashed casual players. End game players aren't trying to take over the world. They're asking for an immersive questing experience because they love the game as much as you do. The stereotype that players who hit hard apparently only enjoy one tiny aspect of the game is horrendously false.

We aren't reading the same forums then. I see these statements frequently, before they get removed or snipped.

Seminolegirl1992

Linaleah wrote: »

show previous quotes

SilverBride wrote: »

I'm not going to read all that. I've already given several reasons why this is a bad idea. Like the fact that veteran overland zones were removed because players weren't playing them and were leaving the game... and the current overland zones already scale to your level, so they should be fine just as they are. But I will give one more reason.

There is already enough toxicity being directed at casual players. We are being told on this forum, and even in this thread, that if we aren't 3 hitting bosses, with one hand tied behind our backs, while eating a sandwich with the other and controlling the game with our feet, that we don't know how to play and we need to "git gud". So let's not add more vet content to have thrown in our faces.

We are not selfish because we don't think it's fair for a minority of players to get special "optional" questlines and bosses that reward them with special loot. Quest storylines that are the backbone of this game and are not meant to be challenging. They are meant to tell the story. And the story is for us all.

I want to add one more thing. We aren't trying to stop you from having fun. We are trying to stop you from completely taking over our world.

I have to correct your statement about vet zones TBH.

original vet zones were a mess. because they spit the player base not into 3 groups, oh no. into 9 different groups. because at launch you could only play with your own alliance and unless I'm remembering it differently, different alliances had different zones at different difficulties.

having an optional vet difficulty. ONE, maybe two of them? while still letting people play with friends regardless of the alliance? is going to be a completely different story.

moreover, the original problem with Craglorn was that it was 1. end game only. 2. pretty much entirely group required. 3. had incredibly disappointing rewards for all the hassle. 4. its story was NOT repeatable, so once you are done? you are done. there was no incentive to help anyone else with those quests.

asking for optional harder story content =/= toxicity. you are not told to git gud. you are not having anything taken from you.

SO and I were talking today, while taking our usual walk with the dogs. he quit SO again, because he is a mid range player - far FAR better then me, but nowhere near the top either, and so overland at lvl 50 bored him, while pvp at lvl 50 he would eventually be thrown with players in BG that he couldn't hold his own against.

he's been playing a lot of Division 2 instead. and why? because there are 4 different overland modes in division, and he found one that gave him just enough challenge to keep him engaged but not so hard that he felt blocked from progressing. and the thing is... in Division 2 - you do get better rewards in harder difficulties. there is also that incentive. but they are not so game breaking that you feel forced into it. its just gear dropping at better quality, with better chance for better stats.

so that gave me an idea. what if harder overland in ESO - guarantees purple drops, with a low chance at gold? what if all chests become master chests? what if the chance of antiquity leads are doubled. still not guaranteed, but you have a higher chance of getting them? so there is an incentive to go, but because its not anything unique, its not gamebreaking. you are not losing out on anything unique if you do not go there.

yes, I do think that higher difficulty should come with at least slightly better rewards. among other things - its a precedent established in this game already via vet content. but at the same time - nothing is taken away from anyone.

please. stop being so possessive over story. me, i don't give a rat's patootie about challenge, I play all my rpg's on easiest available difficulty. however.. I know plenty of people and some of them seem to be in this very thread - who are more engaged with the story, NOT just combat - the story itself, when they are presented with a challenge. and right now, they are having hard time feeling engaged in a story. do they not deserve some enjoyment too?

Very beautifully said

Seminolegirl1992

Linaleah wrote: »

show previous quotes

SilverBride wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

so that gave me an idea. what if harder overland in ESO - guarantees purple drops, with a low chance at gold? what if all chests become master chests? what if the chance of antiquity leads are doubled. still not guaranteed, but you have a higher chance of getting them? so there is an incentive to go, but because its not anything unique, its not gamebreaking. you are not losing out on anything unique if you do not go there.

That is exactly what shouldn't happen. Why should end game players, who have multiple vet level dungeons and trials that already reward them with better loot also get it from the overland content that was never ever meant to be end game difficulty? It is not fair to the rest of the players, who are the vast majority by the way.

And a lot of players would argue your point about antiquity leads. I would be livid if select players were given the chance of double lead drops just because they want every single aspect of the game to cater to their playstyle.

NO.

higher change. not a guarantee. and its not like there aren't already leads behind content that us casuals don't get to experience already. are you arguing against those as well. and at least in this case, those leads will STILL BE DROPPING IN NORMAL DIFFICULTY.

and you are creating this false dichotomy that you are either interested in raids or story. players who DO NOT GIVE A RAT'S BEHIND ABOUT RAIDS but really would like to enjoy the story DO exist. and they are NOT enjoying the story as its presented right now, because bosses are anticlimactic for them

overland content is NOT going to be end game difficulty. just have an option for those who want some challenge with their story - to have that challenge. you. will NOT. have. to DO that.

I actually know one such person. He stopped raiding years ago. Has literally no interest in the game except to rp questlines with me. He removed all cp and wears nothing but rp clothing to make fights interesting and even then with the two of us gimping ourselves, main story bosses die before they finish their monologue. We would love it if, say, the daedric prince fight in Summerset was not anticlimactic. Best storyline in game from our perspective but they were pitiful to fight.

Seminolegirl1992

SilverBride wrote: »

show previous quotes

Linaleah wrote: »

and they are NOT enjoying the story as its presented right now, because bosses are anticlimactic for them

I know that is what some of them say, but in reality they just want vet level loot to drop from every single aspect of the game. But if they say that they don't garner as much sympathy.

show previous quotes

Linaleah wrote: »

you. will NOT. have. to DO that.

No one will. I would be shocked if they even considered this, let alone implemented it.

I don't think you can speak for others. Plus, overland loot, with the exception of two zones (Rivenspire for Mother's Sorrow, for example) in the entire game, is not worth keeping. At all. None of it is good. So no, "end game players" do not want to fight harder main quest bosses to get better loot. Who in their right mind would go through an ENTIRE storyline to get to the main boss just to get "better" loot....that I am 100% going to deconstruct? No thanks. It's for immersion.

Seminolegirl1992

SilverBride wrote: »

show previous quotes

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

Lol what? Noone here has bashed casual players. End game players aren't trying to take over the world. They're asking for an immersive questing experience because they love the game as much as you do. The stereotype that players who hit hard apparently only enjoy one tiny aspect of the game is horrendously false.

We aren't reading the same forums then. I see these statements frequently, before they get removed or snipped.

The forums are no doubt filled to the brim with toxicity. Referring to this thread specifically, I've seen no such thing.

Sylvermynx

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Linaleah wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I'm not going to read all that. I've already given several reasons why this is a bad idea. Like the fact that veteran overland zones were removed because players weren't playing them and were leaving the game... and the current overland zones already scale to your level, so they should be fine just as they are. But I will give one more reason.

There is already enough toxicity being directed at casual players. We are being told on this forum, and even in this thread, that if we aren't 3 hitting bosses, with one hand tied behind our backs, while eating a sandwich with the other and controlling the game with our feet, that we don't know how to play and we need to "git gud". So let's not add more vet content to have thrown in our faces.

We are not selfish because we don't think it's fair for a minority of players to get special "optional" questlines and bosses that reward them with special loot. Quest storylines that are the backbone of this game and are not meant to be challenging. They are meant to tell the story. And the story is for us all.

I want to add one more thing. We aren't trying to stop you from having fun. We are trying to stop you from completely taking over our world.

I have to correct your statement about vet zones TBH.

original vet zones were a mess. because they spit the player base not into 3 groups, oh no. into 9 different groups. because at launch you could only play with your own alliance and unless I'm remembering it differently, different alliances had different zones at different difficulties.

having an optional vet difficulty. ONE, maybe two of them? while still letting people play with friends regardless of the alliance? is going to be a completely different story.

moreover, the original problem with Craglorn was that it was 1. end game only. 2. pretty much entirely group required. 3. had incredibly disappointing rewards for all the hassle. 4. its story was NOT repeatable, so once you are done? you are done. there was no incentive to help anyone else with those quests.

asking for optional harder story content =/= toxicity. you are not told to git gud. you are not having anything taken from you.

SO and I were talking today, while taking our usual walk with the dogs. he quit SO again, because he is a mid range player - far FAR better then me, but nowhere near the top either, and so overland at lvl 50 bored him, while pvp at lvl 50 he would eventually be thrown with players in BG that he couldn't hold his own against.

he's been playing a lot of Division 2 instead. and why? because there are 4 different overland modes in division, and he found one that gave him just enough challenge to keep him engaged but not so hard that he felt blocked from progressing. and the thing is... in Division 2 - you do get better rewards in harder difficulties. there is also that incentive. but they are not so game breaking that you feel forced into it. its just gear dropping at better quality, with better chance for better stats.

so that gave me an idea. what if harder overland in ESO - guarantees purple drops, with a low chance at gold? what if all chests become master chests? what if the chance of antiquity leads are doubled. still not guaranteed, but you have a higher chance of getting them? so there is an incentive to go, but because its not anything unique, its not gamebreaking. you are not losing out on anything unique if you do not go there.

yes, I do think that higher difficulty should come with at least slightly better rewards. among other things - its a precedent established in this game already via vet content. but at the same time - nothing is taken away from anyone.

please. stop being so possessive over story. me, i don't give a rat's patootie about challenge, I play all my rpg's on easiest available difficulty. however.. I know plenty of people and some of them seem to be in this very thread - who are more engaged with the story, NOT just combat - the story itself, when they are presented with a challenge. and right now, they are having hard time feeling engaged in a story. do they not deserve some enjoyment too?

Very beautifully said

Yes. Lin is a very long time player with so much experience in the game. I appreciate her input, because she cuts to the chase.

I've only played for 2.5 years. That's not a really long time in a game like this. I played WoW from 2006 to 2013, and RIFT from 2013 to 2016 - many years longer than I've been playing ESO. But ESO is my "heartland" - more or less. Really I'm one of those despised "single player TES gamers" - but I do really enjoy the MMO vibe because the most important thing to me in an MMO as opposed to to the single player games is that the world is not static. This world evolves. Things change (though... yeah, instanced change doesn't happen, which is a pretty serious downside for me).

But the world does in many ways acknowledge that one's character has made an impact. To me, that's an important point. Yes, Bleakrock is still burning - and there are other issues similar. But this game has done a far better job than others I have played.

[Edit for typo *sigh*]

SilverBride

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

I don't think you can speak for others.

Nor can you.

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

overland loot, with the exception of two zones (Rivenspire for Mother's Sorrow, for example) in the entire game, is not worth keeping. At all. None of it is good. So no, "end game players" do not want to fight harder main quest bosses to get better loot. Who in their right mind would go through an ENTIRE storyline to get to the main boss just to get "better" loot....that I am 100% going to deconstruct? No thanks. It's for immersion.

Overland loot from World Bosses, Harrowstorms and Dragons are fine for players who don't do vet content. And the OP already said he would expect the loot to scale with the increased difficulty like vet dungeons and trials do. So, yes it's about the loot.

spartaxoxo

Linaleah wrote: »

and they are NOT enjoying the story as its presented right now, because bosses are anticlimactic for them

This suggestion doesn't even address that, it's literally just a separate repeatable loot farm, because OP assumes the devs would do a bad job if it wasn't repeatable and that only repeatable content could be difficult. So his solution is to grab a group, queue up, and go farm your story quest loot.

As far as questing go, this actually cheapens the quality of quests and doesn't address story beat at all. It also completely destorys the "once and for all" story element of bosses that comes with them being one offs.

Linaleah

spartaxoxo wrote: »

show previous quotes

Linaleah wrote: »

and they are NOT enjoying the story as its presented right now, because bosses are anticlimactic for them

This suggestion doesn't even address that, it's literally just a separate repeatable loot farm, because OP assumes the devs would do a bad job if it wasn't repeatable and that only repeatable content could be difficult. So his solution is to grab a group, queue up, and go farm your story quest loot.

As far as questing go, this actually cheapens the quality of quests and doesn't address story beat at all. It also completely destorys the "once and for all" story element of bosses that comes with them being one offs.

maybe its because I came to the game from swtor.... but.. I'm not sure how having story be repeatable - destroys that story (in swtor at least the choice you make first time around is the choice that affects the rest of the story, even if you replay the chapter again and chose differently). especially since you literally do not have to repeat it if you don't want to. and I mean... I've already been repeating the story a LOT. on alts. sometimes I want to make different choices (its not on a level of choices in SWTOR, but this game still does have story choices) sometimes I want to see unique outcomes that are race bases (like an extra choice in wrothgar if you play through as an orc). sometimes I just enjoy the story enough to want to see it over and over

have you never reread the book? rewatched a movie? I understand its not for everyone. but some of us do this thing and it doesn't diminish the story at all.

that said... maybe we read different posts. but the suggestions stems from not having fun with boss fights and trying to find a compromise that would make adding extra, harder mode without affecting current baseline - feasible.

Linaleah

Sylvermynx wrote: »

show previous quotes

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I'm not going to read all that. I've already given several reasons why this is a bad idea. Like the fact that veteran overland zones were removed because players weren't playing them and were leaving the game... and the current overland zones already scale to your level, so they should be fine just as they are. But I will give one more reason.

There is already enough toxicity being directed at casual players. We are being told on this forum, and even in this thread, that if we aren't 3 hitting bosses, with one hand tied behind our backs, while eating a sandwich with the other and controlling the game with our feet, that we don't know how to play and we need to "git gud". So let's not add more vet content to have thrown in our faces.

We are not selfish because we don't think it's fair for a minority of players to get special "optional" questlines and bosses that reward them with special loot. Quest storylines that are the backbone of this game and are not meant to be challenging. They are meant to tell the story. And the story is for us all.

I want to add one more thing. We aren't trying to stop you from having fun. We are trying to stop you from completely taking over our world.

I have to correct your statement about vet zones TBH.

original vet zones were a mess. because they spit the player base not into 3 groups, oh no. into 9 different groups. because at launch you could only play with your own alliance and unless I'm remembering it differently, different alliances had different zones at different difficulties.

having an optional vet difficulty. ONE, maybe two of them? while still letting people play with friends regardless of the alliance? is going to be a completely different story.

moreover, the original problem with Craglorn was that it was 1. end game only. 2. pretty much entirely group required. 3. had incredibly disappointing rewards for all the hassle. 4. its story was NOT repeatable, so once you are done? you are done. there was no incentive to help anyone else with those quests.

asking for optional harder story content =/= toxicity. you are not told to git gud. you are not having anything taken from you.

SO and I were talking today, while taking our usual walk with the dogs. he quit SO again, because he is a mid range player - far FAR better then me, but nowhere near the top either, and so overland at lvl 50 bored him, while pvp at lvl 50 he would eventually be thrown with players in BG that he couldn't hold his own against.

he's been playing a lot of Division 2 instead. and why? because there are 4 different overland modes in division, and he found one that gave him just enough challenge to keep him engaged but not so hard that he felt blocked from progressing. and the thing is... in Division 2 - you do get better rewards in harder difficulties. there is also that incentive. but they are not so game breaking that you feel forced into it. its just gear dropping at better quality, with better chance for better stats.

so that gave me an idea. what if harder overland in ESO - guarantees purple drops, with a low chance at gold? what if all chests become master chests? what if the chance of antiquity leads are doubled. still not guaranteed, but you have a higher chance of getting them? so there is an incentive to go, but because its not anything unique, its not gamebreaking. you are not losing out on anything unique if you do not go there.

yes, I do think that higher difficulty should come with at least slightly better rewards. among other things - its a precedent established in this game already via vet content. but at the same time - nothing is taken away from anyone.

please. stop being so possessive over story. me, i don't give a rat's patootie about challenge, I play all my rpg's on easiest available difficulty. however.. I know plenty of people and some of them seem to be in this very thread - who are more engaged with the story, NOT just combat - the story itself, when they are presented with a challenge. and right now, they are having hard time feeling engaged in a story. do they not deserve some enjoyment too?

Very beautifully said

Yes. Lin is a very long time player with so much experience in the game. I appreciate her input, because she cuts to the chase.

I've only played for 2.5 years. That's not a really long time in a game like this. I played WoW from 2006 to 2013, and RIFT from 2013 to 2016 - many years longer than I've been playing ESO. But ESO is my "heartland" - more or less. Really I'm one of those despised "single player TES gamers" - but I do really enjoy the MMO vibe because the most important thing to me in an MMO as opposed to to the single player games is that the world is not static. This world evolves. Things change (though... yeah, instanced change doesn't happen, which is a pretty serious downside for me).

But the world does in many ways acknowledge that one's character has made an impact. To me, that's an important point. Yes, Bleakrock is still burning - and there are other issues similar. But this game has done a far better job than others I have played.

[Edit for typo *sigh*]

awwww

and yeah, a bit BIG reason i still play this game is because of the story beats, because returning characters recognize mine and bring it up, because I can come back and chat to the quest givers after I've finished the story - and often times get updates from them, on what they have been doing. I love going into a city and hearing random npc recognize my character for something they did in a different city or town.

and honestly, I do not mind that story bosses are not super hard and in case of original vestige story - it even adds to the epic feeling, because

Spoiler

a person was sacrificed to empower my character with a power of a freaking daedric prince, you bet I should be cutting through everything in my way, including another daedric prince - like butter. it would leave me disappointed in Meridia if I didn't

but that's just me. what works for me, doesn't work for everyone and that's ok!

I just honestly think there should be options. especially for instanced stories. but maybe not just instanced stories. we aren't the only MMO on the market and other MMO's do something of that nature to varying degree, why can't we?

Raltin

I liked how the elsweyr chapter and dlc dragon final bosses actually presented a challenge, that I had to endure through and fight properly, it brought back memories of the challenge that's involved in fighting molag bal.

The Vvardenfell, Clockwork, Summerset, and ESPECIALLY Greymoor final bosses...

Dead in five seconds.

My reaction?

"Lame..."

Sarousse

What's the point in telling a story of an indredibly powerful ancient vampire when he represents no danger at all for the player ?

I'm bored with this direction from the leading team. That's why I don't pay eso plus anymore, or buy content.