Maintenance for the week of December 23:
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – December 23, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – December 23, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 14:00 UTC (9:00AM EST)
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – December 23, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – December 23, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 14:00 UTC (9:00AM EST)
Please give us back Rapid Maneuver!
-
BigBragg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I have a feeling this will just get pushed into the same rabbit hole as Bosmer racial passives. Lost in Oblivion.7 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I have a feeling this will just get pushed into the same rabbit hole as Bosmer racial passives. Lost in Oblivion.
But some of us bring up that travesty at every opportunity, and will continue to do so until this game is long forgotten or until it's made right. This Rapids issue will be the same for a lot of people as well.
Notice I said "Rapids issue." This really has nothing at all to do with Vigor. Vigor is just the diversion they put out there, that some people have fallen hook, line, and sinker for. Anyone arguing the value or efficacy of Vigor for stamina characters is barking up the wrong tree. This is entirely about them pushing a 30% mount speed increase that we've enjoyed for years behind a paywall by making it harder to obtain, or virtually impossible to attain for those who choose not to engage in PvP.
Edited by Jaraal on September 3, 2020 3:05AM11 -
Hapexamendios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Probably been said before, but if they'd have just switched Vigor with Siege Shield the whole fiasco likely would have been avoided.10 -
Nicole94✭✭✭
Well I appreciate the effort. I have always loved to go fast. I started gaming with my parents in WoW too long ago reallySilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Elvenheart wrote: »if even half of the people who say they have or will unsub over this actually do, that hurts the game
I really doubt that happens. People say things in the heat of the moment, but often make a different choice when they have had time to cool down.
You can doubt all you want.
Maybe I should change that to say "I really hope that doesn't happen." Not because I care if the game loses subscriptions, but because I would really hate to see people leave a game they still enjoy over something like riding fast for a few seconds. I know this is a huge deal for some, and I've tried to understand it, but I honestly can't.
But I worked hard, Played a paladin for the charger, then worked the grind at 60 for the quest (and the ton of gold) to get my Fast mount. I remember riding it all the way from the dungeon... I think it was Scholomance to Stormwind. Paladins also got a speed they cast like rapids and I could go EVEN faster... and I have been hooked on speed ever since. I fell in love with Rapid maneuver instantly. Just my thing I guess lol 5 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭JoeCapricorn wrote: »There are a few situations where the lack of Rapids can profoundly and negatively impact gameplay. Some of them are going to be more common than others.
World Bosses in a high traffic zone or during a high traffic event.
Harrowstorms during a high traffic event.
PVP in Cyrodiil with a large group.
You bring up some very good points, and I appreciate you taking the time to explain it.
I totally understand that it was a struggle to get to the World Bosses during the Summerset event. And the Harrowstorms are spaced out in a way that you have a lot of traveling to do over some rough terrain. We aren't always in the middle of a high traffic event, though, but I can still see this being useful for these things. As far as Cyrodoil, I'm not a PvPer so I can't really relate to that. But it seems to me that would be where you'd want it the most.
I can relate to your reasons a lot more than all the people who are greatly exaggerating how vital rapids is to every single thing they do. But you have to remember, they didn't take it away. You can still get it back.
If I relied on something as much as many here say they rely on rapids, I'd start working on getting it back asap. Because I really doubt they will reverse this.PCNA1 -
esotoon✭✭✭✭✭
✭SilverBride wrote: »I can relate to your reasons a lot more than all the people who are greatly exaggerating how vital rapids is to every single thing they do.
Not one person has said that Rapids is vital to everything they do in the game. Not a one.
8 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Not one person has said that Rapids is vital to everything they do in the game. Not one.
Without going through 19 pages of posts right now, this quote represents how much one poster relies on rapids for everything they do.i do NOT enjoy how long it takes me to get around some of my houses without rapids. it takes time away from decorating and adds on pointless travel. especialy since inside houses, WE CANNOT MOUNT.
PCNA0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Not one person has said that Rapids is vital to everything they do in the game. Not one.
Without going through 19 pages of posts right now, this quote represents how much one poster relies on rapids for everything they do.i do NOT enjoy how long it takes me to get around some of my houses without rapids. it takes time away from decorating and adds on pointless travel. especialy since inside houses, WE CANNOT MOUNT.
[snip] did I say that i cannot get around without rapids? NO. I said i do NOT ENJOY how much SLOWER it is without rapids.
it is vital to ENJOYMENT. it is a quality of life feature. especially on newer alts. [snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Lunar on September 3, 2020 12:06PMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***9 -
esotoon✭✭✭✭✭
✭SilverBride wrote: »Without going through 19 pages of posts right now, this quote represents how much one poster relies on rapids for everything they do.i do NOT enjoy how long it takes me to get around some of my houses without rapids. it takes time away from decorating and adds on pointless travel. especialy since inside houses, WE CANNOT MOUNT.
Somebody says that they do not enjoy getting round their houses without rapids, and that's your proof that they are saying Rapids is vital to EVERYTHING they do in ESO? Really?
Edited by esotoon on September 3, 2020 6:07AM8 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rapids is not vital to game play.
Not having rapids does not prevent you from doing anything in game.
Rapids was not taken away from anyone, it was just moved.
If you want rapids bad enough you will go to Cyrodiil and earn it.
I've tried to understand both sides, but it is not possible in this case. I'm done.Edited by SilverBride on September 3, 2020 7:04AMPCNA3 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »As far as Cyrodoil, I'm not a PvPer so I can't really relate to that. But it seems to me that would be where you'd want it the most
As someone who plays in both PvE and PvP environments, I can tell you that Cyrodiil is by far where a player would need it most. However, if you look at the logic behind their explanation for the swap, what they have done is made one thing (obtaining Vigor) much easier for the PvE player, but at the cost of making PvP exponentially more difficult to level up.... for both the dedicated PvPer and the PvEer who simply wants to PvP until they get their Rapids back and be done with it.
When you get killed at a battle in Cyrodiil, often your only option is to respawn at another keep held by your alliance which can be miles away. At maximum horse speed + 2% more from the Windrunning passive + the extra 30% from Rapids, it can take a player an entire minute to five minutes to ride back to the fight at top speed. But for a new player on an untrained mount who no longer has access to Rapids when he can enter Cyrodiil at lv 10, it can take twice as long. The chances of him (or her) being late to the flip tick or defense tick (Alliance points earned for capturing or defending castles) are doubled. Which means it can take twice as long as before just to get to Alliance rank 5, where Rapids is now available.
In other words, it was faster to get Vigor before (with Rapids available right away) at Rank 5 than it is currently to get Rapids at Rank 5.... without the benefit of Rapids. So basically they are making Vigor easier to get for a few people, while at the same time making it extra hard for EVERYBODY to get Rapids.
Bottom line is, this is clearly not a QOL benefit for the majority of players. It is in actuality an artificial barrier created by marketing gurus to drive ALL players to seek cash shop relief from the deliberate witholding of player speed. And what makes it more sinister is that they allowed players to enjoy this speed for years.... to become dependent on it, if you will, before yanking the rug out from under them and creating an artificial need for a return to normalcy and status quo.
Prove me wrong. I'll wait.
7 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Not having rapids does not prevent you from doing anything in game.
Not having a spoon doesn't keep you from eating soup, either. But why do things the hard way just to prove a point?SilverBride wrote: »I'm done.
Thank you!
14 -
Noggin_the_Nog✭✭✭[quote="SilverBride;
My opinion has been all along that the impact of not moving fast is minimal, and doesn't stop you from doing anything in game. If people would give specific examples on how this has ruined their game play, it would be a lot easier to understand their view. Just saying "It's not fun any more." doesn't tell us anything.[/quote]
The loss of rapids has ruined my gameplay. Let me give you two examples -
My new PvP alts can not get to keeps in time for offensive ticks. I might get to one resource for the tick, but not to the other two resources. I'm just too slow. Last night all I could do was anticipate the next keep attack and wait.
I collect writ surveys on one alt in PvE. She normally does 30 or 40 once every few days - I do a lot of writs daily. Two days ago it took me 3 hours to do the surveys - it normally takes one hour. Now for 5 years she has used rapids, but since ZoS stole her skill I find I am wasting my time when I could be doing better things.
Try to have fun but take care out there.10 -
renne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Rapids is not vital to game play.
Not having rapids does not prevent you from doing anything in game.
Rapids was not taken away from anyone, it was just moved.
If you want rapids bad enough you will go to Cyrodiil and earn it.
I've tried to understand both sides, but it is not possible in this case. I'm done.
Vigor is not vital to game play (plenty of people run stam toons without it, mag toons don't need it).
Not having vigor does not prevent you from doing anything in game.
Vigor was not taken away from anyone when it was at level 5, it didn't need to be moved.
If you want vigor bad enough you will go to Cyrodiil and earn it.
See how it works?
12 -
WeerW3ir✭✭✭✭✭
✭SilverBride wrote: »Rapids is not vital to game play.
Not having rapids does not prevent you from doing anything in game.
Rapids was not taken away from anyone, it was just moved.
If you want rapids bad enough you will go to Cyrodiil and earn it.
I've tried to understand both sides, but it is not possible in this case. I'm done.
Vigor is not vital to game play (plenty of people run stam toons without it, mag toons don't need it).
Not having vigor does not prevent you from doing anything in game.
Vigor was not taken away from anyone when it was at level 5, it didn't need to be moved.
If you want vigor bad enough you will go to Cyrodiil and earn it.
See how it works?
[snip] You all acting like the game is now unplayable or something because you now HAVE TO ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING for the ability and not just entering into the pvp. All goods must end once. And now its ended. [snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Lunar on September 3, 2020 12:07PM1 -
Sgrug✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Rapids is not vital to game play.
Not having rapids does not prevent you from doing anything in game.
Rapids was not taken away from anyone, it was just moved.
If you want rapids bad enough you will go to Cyrodiil and earn it.
I've tried to understand both sides, but it is not possible in this case. I'm done.
Vigor is not vital to game play (plenty of people run stam toons without it, mag toons don't need it).
Not having vigor does not prevent you from doing anything in game.
Vigor was not taken away from anyone when it was at level 5, it didn't need to be moved.
If you want vigor bad enough you will go to Cyrodiil and earn it.
See how it works?
[snip] You all acting like the game is now unplayable or something because you now HAVE TO ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING for the ability and not just entering into the pvp. All goods must end once. And now its ended. [snip]
[snip] that poster is not acting like the game is unplayable. They simply pointed out that that exact same reasoning used on these threads for Vigor can be said of Rapids.
Vigor is not vital to game-play, the fact that players did without this change for 6 years proves that. Yet, and I repeat this again, NO ONE IS ASKING TO CHANGE VIGOR BACK.
Continued posting against proposed changes that literally have no negative impact to anyone does not make a point. [snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Lunar on September 3, 2020 12:09PM9 -
WeerW3ir✭✭✭✭✭
✭SilverBride wrote: »Rapids is not vital to game play.
Not having rapids does not prevent you from doing anything in game.
Rapids was not taken away from anyone, it was just moved.
If you want rapids bad enough you will go to Cyrodiil and earn it.
I've tried to understand both sides, but it is not possible in this case. I'm done.
Vigor is not vital to game play (plenty of people run stam toons without it, mag toons don't need it).
Not having vigor does not prevent you from doing anything in game.
Vigor was not taken away from anyone when it was at level 5, it didn't need to be moved.
If you want vigor bad enough you will go to Cyrodiil and earn it.
See how it works?
[snip] You all acting like the game is now unplayable or something because you now HAVE TO ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING for the ability and not just entering into the pvp. All goods must end once. And now its ended. [snip]
[snip] that poster is not acting like the game is unplayable. They simply pointed out that that exact same reasoning used on these threads for Vigor can be said of Rapids.
Vigor is not vital to game-play, the fact that players did without this change for 6 years proves that. Yet, and I repeat this again, NO ONE IS ASKING TO CHANGE VIGOR BACK.
Continued posting against proposed changes that literally have no negative impact to anyone does not make a point. [snip]
Vigor > Rapid
rapid is not meta!!! You wont survive with spamming rapid. [snip] this is why they changed it.
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Lunar on September 3, 2020 12:10PM1 -
FinrodMacBeorn✭✭✭[snip] You all acting like the game is now unplayable or something because you now HAVE TO ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING for the ability and not just entering into the pvp. All goods must end once. And now its ended. [snip]
Why so emotional? Nobody claimed that the change makes the game unplayable but some people like to twist the statements of others in this direction.
Many people rightfully claimed that the loss of rapids takes the fun out of certain activities. Hard to argue against as that's a matter of personal taste, and taste is not disputable. If those activities - like doing writ runs, leveling alts through pvp and pve ... - constitute a major part of what they are doing ingame, than they - with a certain admissable exaggeration - claim that the change takes the fun out of the game for them - and for what are we all playing ESO if not for fun?
So I really wonder why some people argue ever and ever against those opinions. What is your agenda?
This thread is an important part of communication between players and devs to tell them, that some of there costumers have much less fun now. At least, there was already a statement - as far as I remember, in the gamescom stream - that they think about taking this feedback into account somehow in the future. Perhaps we'll see potions, a mythic item or some overland or dungeon set with major gallop - sometimes.
And no, I have no problems with pvp having enough medium ranked chars (Lieutenant to Centurio) though I do not understand how people find enough fun in Chalman, Bleakers, Ales and back again without longer breaks to ever reach the really high ranks - but who I am to argue their taste of fun.
Edited by ZOS_Lunar on September 3, 2020 12:11PM10 -
Ri_Khan✭✭✭✭✭
✭Coming from someone who is usually infuriated by changes like this, I'm totally cool with it this time around. Half my characters lost rapids and that's ok, if I decide they absolutely need it in order to play, I'll go suffer the horrible performance that PvP has to offer to unlock it for them. It's not like it was completely removed from the game or anything.2 -
Sgrug✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Rapids is not vital to game play.
Not having rapids does not prevent you from doing anything in game.
Rapids was not taken away from anyone, it was just moved.
If you want rapids bad enough you will go to Cyrodiil and earn it.
I've tried to understand both sides, but it is not possible in this case. I'm done.
Vigor is not vital to game play (plenty of people run stam toons without it, mag toons don't need it).
Not having vigor does not prevent you from doing anything in game.
Vigor was not taken away from anyone when it was at level 5, it didn't need to be moved.
If you want vigor bad enough you will go to Cyrodiil and earn it.
See how it works?
[snip] You all acting like the game is now unplayable or something because you now HAVE TO ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING for the ability and not just entering into the pvp. All goods must end once. And now its ended. [snip]
[snip] that poster is not acting like the game is unplayable. They simply pointed out that that exact same reasoning used on these threads for Vigor can be said of Rapids.
Vigor is not vital to game-play, the fact that players did without this change for 6 years proves that. Yet, and I repeat this again, NO ONE IS ASKING TO CHANGE VIGOR BACK.
Continued posting against proposed changes that literally have no negative impact to anyone does not make a point. [snip]
Vigor > Rapid
rapid is not meta!!! You wont survive with spamming rapid. [snip] this is why they changed it.
NO they did not change it because rapids is not meta, they changed it because they needed a place to make Vigor easier to get, RAPIDS WAS COLLATERAL DAMAGE. That being said Rapids could have been grandfathered, made level three or swapped to support line earlier. All solutions recommended that do not impact Vigor and do not negatively impact ANYONE for rapids.
The reason to stubbornly keep Rapids as it is now is quite suspect (or capricious if they really just don't care) as no valid justification has been given to keep it at level 5. However numerous plausible ones have been speculated on and none of them put ZoS in a good light.Edited by ZOS_Lunar on September 3, 2020 12:15PM8 -
WeerW3ir✭✭✭✭✭
✭SilverBride wrote: »Rapids is not vital to game play.
Not having rapids does not prevent you from doing anything in game.
Rapids was not taken away from anyone, it was just moved.
If you want rapids bad enough you will go to Cyrodiil and earn it.
I've tried to understand both sides, but it is not possible in this case. I'm done.
Vigor is not vital to game play (plenty of people run stam toons without it, mag toons don't need it).
Not having vigor does not prevent you from doing anything in game.
Vigor was not taken away from anyone when it was at level 5, it didn't need to be moved.
If you want vigor bad enough you will go to Cyrodiil and earn it.
See how it works?
[snip] You all acting like the game is now unplayable or something because you now HAVE TO ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING for the ability and not just entering into the pvp. All goods must end once. And now its ended. [snip]
[snip] that poster is not acting like the game is unplayable. They simply pointed out that that exact same reasoning used on these threads for Vigor can be said of Rapids.
Vigor is not vital to game-play, the fact that players did without this change for 6 years proves that. Yet, and I repeat this again, NO ONE IS ASKING TO CHANGE VIGOR BACK.
Continued posting against proposed changes that literally have no negative impact to anyone does not make a point. [snip]
Vigor > Rapid
rapid is not meta!!! You wont survive with spamming rapid. [snip] this is why they changed it.
NO they did not change it because rapids is not meta, they changed it because they needed a place to make Vigor easier to get, RAPIDS WAS COLLATERAL DAMAGE. That being said Rapids could have been grandfathered, made level three or swapped to support line earlier. All solutions recommended that do not impact Vigor and do not negatively impact ANYONE for rapids.
The reason to stubbornly keep Rapids as it is now is quite suspect (or capricious if they really just don't care) as no valid justification has been given to keep it at level 5. However numerous plausible ones have been speculated on and none of them put ZoS in a good light.
And i try to keep convience you all to let it go. and adapt as we did beforeEdited by ZOS_Lunar on September 3, 2020 12:16PM0 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Strange, on PS4 after update rapids still works on a couple of low level alts with only alliance skill rank 4.
They had it slotted on the bar before the change, there is a lock icon on the skill so I think it could not be slotted again if I removed rapids from the bar. If this is a bug or intended I do not know.
Bottom line if you used it a lot it would be on your bar right?Edited by TequilaFire on September 3, 2020 12:55PM0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »Strange, on PS4 after update rapids still works on a couple of low level alts with only alliance skill rank 4.
They had it slotted on the bar before the change, there is a lock icon on the skill so I think it could not be slotted again if I removed rapids from the bar. If this is a bug or intended I do not know.
Bottom line if you used it a lot it would be on your bar right?
it was removed from the skill bars of every single one of my alts that went to Cyro to unlock rapids and did nothing else there. it was also removed from an alt that DID reach rank 4, but its not my preferred character to pvp with, so she hasn't gotten any further.
so yeah, sounds like a bug.
and no. I'm not going to spend MORE time in a VIDEO GAME (ffs) to do something I do not enjoy on multiple characters that were NOT built for it, to regain functionality I used to have for over half a decade. rather, I'll play less in general, because if you (general you, not you specifically) are not playing for fun - I hope you are at least getting paid for it.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***7 -
madrab73✭✭✭✭✭Can you not just do your crafting in Alinor? Pretty much a waste of time getting on your mount let alone using Rapids to travel such a short distance0
-
Sgrug✭✭✭✭✭Can you not just do your crafting in Alinor? Pretty much a waste of time getting on your mount let alone using Rapids to travel such a short distance
Last I checked (which was this morning) crafting surveys are across all the old world zones and chapter zones, how does that solve anything? Not to mention crafting events and other world events crafters can do where we run all over the place.Edited by Sgrug on September 3, 2020 1:32PM7 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Can you not just do your crafting in Alinor? Pretty much a waste of time getting on your mount let alone using Rapids to travel such a short distance
I prefer crafting in vvardenfell, due to much tighter cluster of stations AND easier availability of a banker. you can use rapids on foot. and crafting was not the only thing i did on those alts. but that is not the point. just because i CAN do something doesn't mean its as fun as it used to be. and if its not fun, I don't want to do it anymore. because this my hobby, not a job where I HAVE to adopt because it pays for living expenses and economy is too rough to look for another job.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***5 -
madrab73✭✭✭✭✭Can you not just do your crafting in Alinor? Pretty much a waste of time getting on your mount let alone using Rapids to travel such a short distance
Last I checked (which was this morning) crafting surveys are across all the old world zones and chapter zones, how does that solve anything? Not to mention crafting events and other world events crafters can do where we run all over the place.
If you do your crafting on one character 100k ap is one of the easiest 'grinds' in the game0 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sigh.. It really shows a pattern here.
Devs make a change.
People complain about the change.
Devs do nothing.
People eventually stop complaining. <-- This is what they want you to do
Devs continue to make changes that aren't popular with the playerbase.
[snip]
[edited for baiting]
Edited by ZOS_Lunar on September 3, 2020 3:42PM12
This discussion has been closed.