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Please give us back Rapid Maneuver!
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esotoon✭✭✭✭✭
✭SilverBride wrote: »
I can't say with absolute certainty it's exactly 2 hours. But I know it takes me approx 5.5 hours to do Psijic. This is knowing exactly where every breach, etc. is. And using Rapids all the time. So for me, it would take about 2 hours longer.
4 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »
no it would not, because ZoS doesn't need to understand it either, all they need to know is that it is something that is important to a decent chunk of their population. the ONLY evidence they need is a number of people that this change is disliked by as well as number of people who used to use rapids regularly and now cannot. DATA. not opinions and trying to justify personal preferences.
a better example has just occurred to me. my SO loves pvp. he LOVES dueling. its all he does in ESO and he can do it for HOURS, completely immersed to the point of losing track of time. its what he finds fun.
do I understand it? not even remotely because I personaly do NOT find it fun (especially dueling, pvping when we are playing together is fun, but mainly cause we are playing together, not because its pvp). anymore that he doesn't really understand WHY I find housing fun. but we both accept and support each other's preferences and facilitate each other's ability to engage in them (he gives me any patterns he finds, I craft him gear he wants or sometimes simple leave him be, so he can focus and enjoy). because the key point here is that it is important to us and that is what matters. not WHY its important. only that it is. neither of us has to justify why we like what we like, before we get to do it.
what you keep demanding is people justifying why they find something fun or not fun. and honestly, its just sad.
Edited by Linaleah on September 2, 2020 8:25PMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***6 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭what you keep demanding is people justifying why they find something fun or not fun. and honestly, its just sad.
I'm sorry you see it that way. But if people are going to bring up an issue that they claim greatly impacts their game play in a very negative way, to the point that some are even considering quitting over it, they really need to bring some hard proof to the table.
PCNA0 -
Massacre_Wurm✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »
no it would not, because ZoS doesn't need to understand it either, all they need to know is that it is something that is important to a decent chunk of their population. the ONLY evidence they need is a number of people that this change is disliked by as well as number of people who used to use rapids regularly and now cannot. DATA. not opinions and trying to justify personal preferences.
a better example has just occurred to me. my SO loves pvp. he LOVES dueling. its all he does in ESO and he can do it for HOURS, completely immersed to the point of losing track of time. its what he finds fun.
do I understand it? not even remotely because I personaly do NOT find it fun (especially dueling, pvping when we are playing together is fun, but mainly cause we are playing together, not because its pvp). anymore that he doesn't really understand WHY I find housing fun. but we both accept and support each other's preferences and facilitate each other's ability to engage in them (he gives me any patterns he finds, I craft him gear he wants or sometimes simple leave him be, so he can focus and enjoy). because the key point here is that it is important to us and that is what matters. not WHY its important. only that it is. neither of us has to justify why we like what we like, before we get to do it.
what you keep demanding is people justifying why they find something fun or not fun. and honestly, its just sad.
Are you trying to say that some people ejoyed just running around using rapids ? Housing and duels are legitimate things to do. Rapids just a skill.A tool. Stop conflating the two.0 -
Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »
and doesn't stop you from doing anything in game. If people would give specific examples on how this has ruined their game play, it would be a lot easier to understand their view.
Seriously? All you are doing now is arguing to argue. I am going to give you a concrete example, knowing full well you will just poo poo it. But, here goes:
I no longer want to play this game because of this change. I never PvP'd because I don't like it, and never wanted to engage in the activities like Battlegrounds. I have done 1 1/2 BGs, since this change, and 0 Duels and 2 of my Alts are 4 in PvP, and that is only because I was trying out PvP. Correction, one was almost at 5, and I won't talk about how much time I spent LFG and chasing battles to get over that hump to 5. Time I did not want to spend to get back something I already had.
However, I used Rapids everyday while PvEing. And, don't respond with the argument that Rapids if a PvP only skill, it would not have been usable in all zones if it was, nor would have been unlocked with a simple introduction to PvP that the game offers every character at L10, by doing PvE activities.
This rapids change sucks, and I no longer play this game because of it.
Moving Rapids back or giving us another way to get the skill without would do nothing to hurt your gameplay or bother you, so I am not sure why you are so against it.
Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"14 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »what you keep demanding is people justifying why they find something fun or not fun. and honestly, its just sad.
I'm sorry you see it that way. But if people are going to bring up an issue that they claim greatly impacts their game play in a very negative way, to the point that some are even considering quitting over it, they really need to bring some hard proof to the table.
what hard proof? how do you prove NO HAVING FUN? think... about what you are asking for here.Massacre_Wurm wrote: »
Are you trying to say that some people ejoyed just running around using rapids ? Housing and duels are legitimate things to do. Rapids just a skill.A tool. Stop conflating the two.
sigh. lets see. I enjoy decorating. i do NOT enjoy how long it takes me to get around some of my houses without rapids. it takes time away from decorating and adds on pointless travel. especialy since inside houses, WE CANNOT MOUNT.
here is one example. yes, it bothers me this much.
not having a tool you have come to rely on can make an activity less fun. DOES make an activity less fun. ever tried to... lets see... cook something? and say you are used to using very good, sharp knives, and then those knives are taken away from you, cheaper duller knives given instead. its just tool, right? except.. now the process is more frustrating and less fun, because THE TOOL sucks.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***6 -
Triballian✭✭SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »There is a big difference between taking away run, which is a base ability, not a skill... and quick bursts of faster mount speed.
It was a thought experiment, to ask how you would feel. The fact that you have failed to engage with that but instead wanted to focus on what is/isn't a skill, rather than the impact it would have on you as a person, suggests that either you are not wanting to understand other peoples points of view as much as you say you are, or you are not a very empathetic person.
I get your thought experiment, but using an example of something that would never happen doesn't bring the idea home. This has nothing to do with empathy, and I will not have my character questioned on a gaming forum.
My opinion has been all along that the impact of not moving fast is minimal, and doesn't stop you from doing anything in game. If people would give specific examples on how this has ruined their game play, it would be a lot easier to understand their view. Just saying "It's not fun any more." doesn't tell us anything.
Why would anyone waste extra time exploring nature from a horse? Second, why are the useful PvE skills Rapid, Vigor, Caltrops, Warhorn, among the PvP exclusive skills? Need cannon fodder for PvP players?
Third, something you had and what you are used to, someone took it away from you. Today RM, tomorrow something even worse. Enjoy your meta equipment, meta builds, perfect skill rotations and let us play our imperfect and boring PvE game.You are so perfect at chasing PvE players who are forced to collect skyshards in Cyrodiil and other PvP zones. [snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Lunar on September 3, 2020 12:03PM5 -
Sanctum74✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »what you keep demanding is people justifying why they find something fun or not fun. and honestly, its just sad.
I'm sorry you see it that way. But if people are going to bring up an issue that they claim greatly impacts their game play in a very negative way, to the point that some are even considering quitting over it, they really need to bring some hard proof to the table.
If you took the time to read the thread instead of baiting people into an argument you would clearly see there is at least a dozen reasons listed how this change negatively impacts the game for people.
People have also recommended easy solutions that would have made both sides of the argument happy.
More importantly it’s just wrong to take something away from people that they have been using for 6 years.
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Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »what you keep demanding is people justifying why they find something fun or not fun. and honestly, its just sad.
I'm sorry you see it that way. But if people are going to bring up an issue that they claim greatly impacts their game play in a very negative way, to the point that some are even considering quitting over it, they really need to bring some hard proof to the table.
If you took the time to read the thread instead of baiting people into an argument you would clearly see there is at least a dozen reasons listed how this change negatively impacts the game for people.
People have also recommended easy solutions that would have made both sides of the argument happy.
More importantly it’s just wrong to take something away from people that they have been using for 6 years.
they don't get it. because all of those dozen reasons? do not bother THEM - ergo those reasons do not matter because their opinion and preference is the only valid one, and for people that these reasons DO matter - maybe MMO is just not for them. or something like that.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***6 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you took the time to read the thread instead of baiting people into an argument you would clearly see there is at least a dozen reasons listed how this change negatively impacts the game for people.
All I've seen are things like:
"It's just not fun any more."
"I don't want to have to PvP to get it."
"It takes me 2 seconds longer to get from here to there."
"But I've always had it."
"They can't just take away something we've had for 6 years." (Yes, they can.)
"I'm going to unsub if I don't get it back."
"You don't use it so you aren't entitled to an opinion."
No one has said anything like these:
"I was unable to do a dungeon because I don't have rapids."
"I was unable to do a trial because I don't have rapids."
"I was unable to complete a quest because I don't have rapids."
No one has shown any proof whatsoever that basic game play has been negatively affected in any way.
PCNA1 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭people have been able to complete dungeons without vigor.
people have been able to complete trials without vigor
people have been able to complete quests without vigor.
lack of vigor has NEVER made anything in game unequivocally inaccessible in any way. it made certain tasks easier. kinda like rapids does.
and according to ZoS - that is the ONLY reason Vigor was moved to be easier and quicker to get. because it makes things easier for stamina characters. (and quite possible for a good number of people - more fun) not because something was impossible without it.
dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***9 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭people have been able to complete dungeons without vigor.
people have been able to complete trials without vigor
people have been able to complete quests without vigor.
lack of vigor has NEVER made anything in game unequivocally inaccessible in any way. it made certain tasks easier. kinda like rapids does.
and according to ZoS - that is the ONLY reason Vigor was moved to be easier and quicker to get. because it makes things easier for stamina characters. (and quite possible for a good number of people - more fun) not because something was impossible without it.
Having a skill that allows stamina characters to heal themselves impacts game play a lot more than a short speed boost when out gathering.
Edited by SilverBride on September 2, 2020 9:04PMPCNA1 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I really wish this would stop making new posts when I am editing.
Edited by SilverBride on September 2, 2020 9:03PMPCNA0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MinnesotaKid wrote: »[Quoted post was removed]
I would have to spend hours more in this thread before it would be equal to time it would take me get rapids back in a single alt.
I type here in between things. loading screens, or often while not even playing and doing something else that has gaps in activity.
which is not even remotely the same as sitting down for dedicated several hours of doing something unenjoyable on characters that are not built for it. I have enough tasks in RL that I have to do through dislike, because those are necessary to daily function. I don't need that in video games.SilverBride wrote: »people have been able to complete dungeons without vigor.
people have been able to complete trials without vigor
people have been able to complete quests without vigor.
lack of vigor has NEVER made anything in game unequivocally inaccessible in any way. it made certain tasks easier. kinda like rapids does.
and according to ZoS - that is the ONLY reason Vigor was moved to be easier and quicker to get. because it makes things easier for stamina characters. (and quite possible for a good number of people - more fun) not because something was impossible without it.
Having a skill that allows stamina characters to heal themselves impacts game play a lot more than a short speed boost when out gathering.
except as pointed out MULTIPLE TIMES, stamina characters did have other options. maybe not as good as vigor, but there were options. even for nighblades.
so we are back to "i personaly find it more important, ergo its more important"
your whole argument is that nothing is impossible without rapids. and i'm saying - nothing is impossible without vigor., and yet. ZoS moved vigor, because it made some things EASIER for SOME people. so why is this a good reason when it comes to vigor... but not rapids? double standard much? oh... right... for YOU its not as important. that is the only "hard fact" you have. personal preference.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on September 4, 2020 3:39PMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***7 -
Sanctum74✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »people have been able to complete dungeons without vigor.
people have been able to complete trials without vigor
people have been able to complete quests without vigor.
lack of vigor has NEVER made anything in game unequivocally inaccessible in any way. it made certain tasks easier. kinda like rapids does.
and according to ZoS - that is the ONLY reason Vigor was moved to be easier and quicker to get. because it makes things easier for stamina characters. (and quite possible for a good number of people - more fun) not because something was impossible without it.
Having a skill that allows stamina characters to heal themselves impacts game play a lot more than a short speed boost when out gathering.
Not really, you can easily do content without vigor including soloing dungeons. Stam characters already have class and weapon based heals, but I guess its a different story when it’s something that affects you.
9 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭people have been able to complete dungeons without vigor.
people have been able to complete trials without vigor
people have been able to complete quests without vigor.
lack of vigor has NEVER made anything in game unequivocally inaccessible in any way. it made certain tasks easier. kinda like rapids does.
and according to ZoS - that is the ONLY reason Vigor was moved to be easier and quicker to get. because it makes things easier for stamina characters. (and quite possible for a good number of people - more fun) not because something was impossible without it.
Now you're getting into Red Herring fallacies, @Linaleah, which detracts from your discussion and presentation.
Be sure to stick to the topic (which is Rapids) ... has not having Rapids prevented you from completing content?
Edited by Taleof2Cities on September 2, 2020 9:31PM1 -
JoeCapricorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭MinnesotaKid wrote: »[Quoted post was removed]
In the total amount of time I have spent arguing on this topic I probably could have unlocked Rapids on one alt.
The total amount of time I have spent in game is usually doing dailies and some farming, that's about it, and that is if I feel like being in ESO. Sometimes I do, sometimes I feel burned out. I've been feeling a burnout for a while now, but that was because I was doing delve dailies on 5 alts for about two or three weeks straight.
I have to give myself a break too!
Starting tomorrow with the IC event (why???), I'll be doing the bare minimum on my main, who has over 136 days of cumulative time spent. I don't think IC dailies give that much AP anyway, so I doubt this event is going to help me earn rapids on additional alts.
Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on September 4, 2020 3:40PMI simp for vampire lords and Glemyos Wildhorn2 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »people have been able to complete dungeons without vigor.
people have been able to complete trials without vigor
people have been able to complete quests without vigor.
lack of vigor has NEVER made anything in game unequivocally inaccessible in any way. it made certain tasks easier. kinda like rapids does.
and according to ZoS - that is the ONLY reason Vigor was moved to be easier and quicker to get. because it makes things easier for stamina characters. (and quite possible for a good number of people - more fun) not because something was impossible without it.
Now you're getting into Red Herring fallacies, @Linaleah, which detracts from your discussion and presentation.
Be sure to stick to the topic (which is Rapids) ... has not having Rapids prevented you from completing content?
I'm going to regret responding to you. I just know it.
but in good faith (maker, help me)
no. i am NOT.
I am sticking to the argument that removal of rapids makes the game less fun for a good number of players. I am NOT the one making an argument about being able to complete the content. SilverBride is. my argument is about persona preference and persona idea of FUN.
and THAT is why vigor is being brought up. rapids was switched with vigor, to make VIGOR more accessible to low level stamina players. THAT is an actual reason ZoS gave us. except if you are going to make an argument referring to whether content is doable or not? well then vigor didn't have to be moved, because all content is doable without it. which makes the whole argument about whether content is doable or not - POINTLESS to this discussion and trying to derail it from its actual point.
that point being that playing without accessible rapids is less fun in a wide variety of content for wide variety of people.
offered solution - and I repeat it yet another time. make both rapids and vigor accesible at the same time. rather then continuing to tell people that "they are having fun wrong"
or.. you know, actualy balance the specific stamina specs that were lacking stamina specific burst heal to have it. they are not above adjusting skills to have stamina morphs - heck they just did it with one of the sorc skills in this very patch, to give stam sorcs more class options.
for example... instead of having two magicka morphs for strife... one not make one of them stamina based. or adjust malevolent offering yet again. there are options. switching places for vigor and rapids was NOT the only way to do it is the stated goal was to give stamina players a stamina heal earlier in a game.Edited by Linaleah on September 2, 2020 9:53PMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***8 -
Sgrug✭✭✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »people have been able to complete dungeons without vigor.
people have been able to complete trials without vigor
people have been able to complete quests without vigor.
lack of vigor has NEVER made anything in game unequivocally inaccessible in any way. it made certain tasks easier. kinda like rapids does.
and according to ZoS - that is the ONLY reason Vigor was moved to be easier and quicker to get. because it makes things easier for stamina characters. (and quite possible for a good number of people - more fun) not because something was impossible without it.
Now you're getting into Red Herring fallacies, @Linaleah, which detracts from your discussion and presentation.
Be sure to stick to the topic (which is Rapids) ... has not having Rapids prevented you from completing content?
I'm going to regret responding to you. I just know it.
but in good faith (maker, help me)
no. i am NOT.
I am sticking to the argument that removal of rapids makes the game less fun for a good number of players. I am NOT the one making an argument about being able to complete the content. SilverBride is. my argument is about persona preference and persona idea of FUN.
and THAT is why vigor is being brought up. rapids was switched with vigor, to make VIGOR more accessible to low level stamina players. THAT is an actual reason ZoS gave us. except if you are going to make an argument referring to whether content is doable or not? well then vigor didn't have to be moved, because all content is doable without it. which makes the whole argument about whether content is doable or not - POINTLESS to this discussion and trying to derail it from its actual point.
that point being that playing without accessible rapids is less fun in a wide variety of content for wide variety of people.
offered solution - and I repeat it yet another time. make both rapids and vigor accessible at the same time. rather then continuing to tell people that "they are having fun wrong"
Heck just making rapids available at level 3 would have been sufficient.6 -
WeerW3ir✭✭✭✭✭
✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »people have been able to complete dungeons without vigor.
people have been able to complete trials without vigor
people have been able to complete quests without vigor.
lack of vigor has NEVER made anything in game unequivocally inaccessible in any way. it made certain tasks easier. kinda like rapids does.
and according to ZoS - that is the ONLY reason Vigor was moved to be easier and quicker to get. because it makes things easier for stamina characters. (and quite possible for a good number of people - more fun) not because something was impossible without it.
Now you're getting into Red Herring fallacies, @Linaleah, which detracts from your discussion and presentation.
Be sure to stick to the topic (which is Rapids) ... has not having Rapids prevented you from completing content?
I'm going to regret responding to you. I just know it.
but in good faith (maker, help me)
no. i am NOT.
I am sticking to the argument that removal of rapids makes the game less fun for a good number of players. I am NOT the one making an argument about being able to complete the content. SilverBride is. my argument is about persona preference and persona idea of FUN.
and THAT is why vigor is being brought up. rapids was switched with vigor, to make VIGOR more accessible to low level stamina players. THAT is an actual reason ZoS gave us. except if you are going to make an argument referring to whether content is doable or not? well then vigor didn't have to be moved, because all content is doable without it. which makes the whole argument about whether content is doable or not - POINTLESS to this discussion and trying to derail it from its actual point.
that point being that playing without accessible rapids is less fun in a wide variety of content for wide variety of people.
offered solution - and I repeat it yet another time. make both rapids and vigor accesible at the same time. rather then continuing to tell people that "they are having fun wrong"
And they still did not removed the rapid. just swapped it. You still can earn it by playing more pvp. the WORLD DID NOT ENDED. because they swapped it. [snip] id rather choose vigor and survive than be faster with 30%... which eventually you can just reach with FEEDING YOUR HORSE. ^^
seriously people. this was MADE FOR YOU. a [snip] they changed COUNTLESS abilities and gameplay mechanics already before. changing race bonuses and getting mad about that. i understand. i was mad too. [snip]
(sorry not ment to you Lina)
[Edited to remove Baiting]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on September 4, 2020 3:47PM1 -
esotoon✭✭✭✭✭
✭id rather choose vigor and survive than be faster with 30%...
And I'd choose Rapids, so what's your point?which eventually you can just reach with FEEDING YOUR HORSE.
All my horses are fully levelled to 60, how can i make them go 30% faster by feeding them?seriously people. this was MADE FOR YOU. accept it finaly and get going with your life. this is a game. they changed COUNTLESS
Please accept that people impacted this want to discuss it. Console players have had this change just over a day. If you do not wish to contribute to the thread, or even read it, you do not have to.
Edited by esotoon on September 2, 2020 9:54PM9 -
JoeCapricorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭SilverBride wrote: »
"I was unable to do a dungeon because I don't have rapids."
"I was unable to do a trial because I don't have rapids."
"I was unable to complete a quest because I don't have rapids."
No one has shown any proof whatsoever that basic game play has been negatively affected in any way.
There are a few situations where the lack of Rapids can profoundly and negatively impact gameplay. Some of them are going to be more common than others.
World Bosses in a high traffic zone or during a high traffic event. What I mean by this is, for instance, the Summerset event. You would have a world boss spawn with several groups gathering to fight it. On many instances, I was a part of a group that had to tell everyone to hurry up because someone outside of the group LEEROY JENKINSed the world boss. This happens all the time, sometimes to the point where it is necessary to wait until the World Boss respawns. This can be a time consuming and even frustrating affair, as not everyone has 25 hours per day for ESO. Numerous things can limit someone's time in game, such as real life requirements. Someone out on the West Coast might be more prone to missing the Daily Quest reset time, as in local time it happens around 11 PM (10PM outside of DST).
Harrowstorms during a high traffic event. Shortly after Greymoor launched, the fastest way to get 3 Harrowstorms completed for the daily was to do them in Blackreach. Because those storms respawned relatively faster than the ones top-side, many people opted to camp out at one until it popped. This has the result where someone posts that a Harrowstorm is about to come down, and there being about 30 to 40 seconds before it is entirely completed. Yes, they can go down that quick - I have timed it (fastest was 28 seconds from red fog). My strategy was to instead camp out near a wayshrine, that way I have generally an equal distance of riding to the Harrowstorm, and I still missed a few even with my agile riding skills. Without Rapid Maneuver, I would not be able to do this, I would have to instead opt to camp out at a Harrowstorm location, which would make the task of completing one significantly longer. Due to the random nature of Harrowstorm spawns, a specific location, even in Blackreach, may take up to an hour to respawn. I have seen it jump from Miners to Gloomforest and back and Nightstone was quiet for the entire time. Due to the Greymoor motif dropping later this month, and also the Lost Treasures of Skyrim event possibly involving this daily quest, a high traffic event later this year is almost certain.
PVP in Cyrodiil with a large group. Capturing keeps and resources requires riding across a long distance at times and keeping up with a large group. The best way to do this is to use Rapids. Falling behind is almost guaranteed to happen, because you cannot rely on groupmates providing you with rapids - it affects 12 people at most, if you're in a 24 person raid then you're out of luck. Even in smaller raid groups, sometimes the distance between groupmates extends to the point where you are just out of range of getting rapids from one of them. Falling behind then results in arriving later to a battle - this affects the battle itself because the group isn't going to be fighting to its best when members are trickling in from Chalman. If the group is instead able to keep a tighter formation, success is more likely - many lost battles are because the group was just too spread out to be effective at anything. The lack of Rapid Maneuver is going to greatly increase that on alts that do not have Assault at 5. Resources and sometimes even keeps and outposts may even flip before a player could get within range for the AP credit, whereas with Rapid Maneuver they would not have had much of a problem. Because PVPing in a large coordinated group is my preferred method, the lack of Rapids effectively discourages me from trying to regain Rapids in this manner.Edited by JoeCapricorn on September 2, 2020 9:55PMI simp for vampire lords and Glemyos Wildhorn11 -
WeerW3ir✭✭✭✭✭
✭id rather choose vigor and survive than be faster with 30%...
And I'd choose Rapids, so what's your point?which eventually you can just reach with FEEDING YOUR HORSE.
All my horses are fully levelled to 60, how can i make them go 30% faster by feeding them?seriously people. this was MADE FOR YOU. accept it finaly and get going with your life. this is a game. they changed COUNTLESS
Please accept that people impacted this want to discuss it. Console players have had this change just over a day. If you do not wish to contribute to the thread, or even read it, you do not have to.
Why? just why? rapid is not worth it. for years the vigor cry was always happening. and now that they finaly did changed it. all of you. just crying that we want it back. you guys do not understand that part they changed it because everybody spammed it??? its overused. and what you do with a set/ability which is overused? Nerf it/change it. You guys MUST learn this and not complaining.
And as countless other already wrote it. They WILL NOT answer because its like spouring oil into the fire. Beside also do not expect update to change this soon. maximum next big update as usually. so you guys conna continue do this?Edited by WeerW3ir on September 2, 2020 10:05PM2 -
esotoon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why? just why? rapid is not worth it.
Because I can work around not having Vigor, there is no way to work around not having Rapids apart from taking 30% longer to play the game.for years the vigor cry was always happening. and now that they finaly did changed it. all of you. just crying that we want it back. you guys do not understand that part they changed it because everybody spammed it??? its overused. and what you do with a set/ability which is overused? Nerf it/change it. You guys MUST learn this and not complaining.
What evidence do you have to support this?
ZOS have never stated it was being overused. And if this was the case, they could nerf it without making it harder to get. Give it a 30 second cool down for instance.
This method in no way nerfs it's overuse. People can still get it and use it at the same rate. The only thing it does is make it take extra time to get. And it is that extra time spent for no reason that, people are complaining about.
Edited by esotoon on September 2, 2020 10:08PM8 -
WeerW3ir✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why? just why? rapid is not worth it.
Because I can work around not having Vigor, there is no way to work around not having Rapids apart from taking 30% longer to play the game.for years the vigor cry was always happening. and now that they finaly did changed it. all of you. just crying that we want it back. you guys do not understand that part they changed it because everybody spammed it??? its overused. and what you do with a set/ability which is overused? Nerf it/change it. You guys MUST learn this and not complaining.
What evidence do you have to support this?
ZOS have never stated it was being overused. And if this was the case, they could nerf it without making it harder to get. Give it a 30 second cool down for instance.
This method in no way nerfs it's overuse. People can still get it and use it at the same rate. The only thing it does is make it take extra time to get. And it is that extra time spent for no reason that, people are complaining about.
i rather say under the time youre trying to defend your precious skill. you could have farm the AP. ;D
beside:
Alliance WarAssault
Vigor: This ability is now first in the skill line to unlock, and has swapped places with Rapid Maneuvers in efforts to help builds focused on Stamina to have a healthier leveling experience. Previous XP gained in both of these skills will be retained, but if your Assault skill line is too low to obtain the 3rd skill, you will have to level it in order to gain access to Rapid Maneuvers again.
in efforts to help builds focused on Stamina to have a healthier leveling experience.
here is your answer
0 -
esotoon✭✭✭✭✭
✭i rather say under the time youre trying to defend your precious skill. you could have farm the AP. ;D
I'm not defending the skill.Assault
Vigor: This ability is now first in the skill line to unlock, and has swapped places with Rapid Maneuvers in efforts to help builds focused on Stamina to have a healthier leveling experience. Previous XP gained in both of these skills will be retained, but if your Assault skill line is too low to obtain the 3rd skill, you will have to level it in order to gain access to Rapid Maneuvers again.
in efforts to help builds focused on Stamina to have a healthier leveling experience.
here is your answer
That says nothing about people over using Rapids, which is what you stated. And no one, NO ONE, in these threads are sayings its bad that people now get Vigor easier.
Edited by esotoon on September 2, 2020 10:19PM4 -
WeerW3ir✭✭✭✭✭
✭i rather say under the time youre trying to defend your precious skill. you could have farm the AP. ;D
I'm not defending the skill.Assault
Vigor: This ability is now first in the skill line to unlock, and has swapped places with Rapid Maneuvers in efforts to help builds focused on Stamina to have a healthier leveling experience. Previous XP gained in both of these skills will be retained, but if your Assault skill line is too low to obtain the 3rd skill, you will have to level it in order to gain access to Rapid Maneuvers again.
in efforts to help builds focused on Stamina to have a healthier leveling experience.
here is your answer
That says nothing about people over using Rapids, which is what you stated. And no one, NO ONE, in these threads are sayings its bad that people now get Vigor easier.
once again just stating. zos might do bs sometimes. but they DO know what they are doing. And when they do something with an ability. they do have their reason. dosent matter the reason. you must trust them and accept it. or if you not, you make their job harder. and surely they are not that evil corporation as some people describe them. to make you pay for feeding your horse or something like that. this overall topic(s) is just making you all into the [snip] of ESO.
im really over wtith reading this. that was my final answer. (and yes. you just did defend it.)
[Edit for Baiting.]Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on September 3, 2020 3:30AM1 -
JoeCapricorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS has made mistakes in the past. This isn't anything new. A game like ESO requires constant adaptation, but also an appreciation for things that ought to be set in stone. The fact is, Rapid Maneuver was a basic skill in many players' repertoire. That this thread alone has topped 19 pages should speak to the enormous amount of controversy changing the skill's requirements has generated. I am also not surprised to see a surge in posts and comments about this issue, because now this stupid change made its way onto the Consoles and now those players are also logging in to this rude awakening.
It is not going to go away until ZOS reverses course, at the least by returning Rapid Maneuver back to where it was: Obtainable from the start. The moment I can log in and put it back on the bar of ALL of my alts is when I will restore my subscription. End of story.I simp for vampire lords and Glemyos Wildhorn10 -
Wytch✭✭✭I've been giving this some thought over the last few days. Let me clarify a few things and then explain the only way this is ever getting fixed.
First, no one is saying you shouldn't get Vigor sooner or as easily as Rapids, just not by RIPING RAPIDS AWAY FROM THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN REFLEXIVELY USING IT FOR 6 YEARS! Let's put that to bed right now. This could have been done better.
"a healthier leveling experience." This excuse it grating on some people for a reason. If you have a lowbie toon, log into it, look at the tooltip for vigor. During most of the "leveling experience," vigor is about as useful as a screen in a submarine. It's not until you get into the champion points that it becomes useful, so that excuse was a straight-up LIE.
Who does this change help? The FEW people that actually cared about Vigor for whatever reason.
Who does this change hurt? EVERYONE THAT USED RAPIDS! That includes pve folks farming or bouncing from delve to delve etc and also the pvp folks out in the massive expanse called Cyrodiil just trying to keep up with the zergs or get from point A to point B without getting ganked by a would-be proctologist. But get this.... it especially hurts the pvpers that loved cyrodiil b/c now not only does this make it take a lot longer to get (relatively speaking since natural pvpers can surly get it faster than others) but it will also mean it will take them a lot longer to get to the MORPH they want if they don't already have it waiting for them.
We are NEVER going to hear anything official in response to our outrage about this because they KNOW they were wrong and just making a cash grab with this change. Make no mistake, it is a cash grab. There are a LOT of people that hate pvp or are simply too lazy to grind it out on their alts so they will suffer thru it on one toon and then BUY the pvp skills with crowns for 30 bux per alt. Think about that.... 30 bux per alt per account for every person too lazy to grind or too hateful of pvp. You really think that this change isn't a cash grab?
[snip]
That is my current strategy and I plan to stick to it until they either fix this mess or until I find a new game to settle into. Gotta say, there are a few that are looking pretty good.
[snip]
[Edit for Petitions and Protests.]Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on September 3, 2020 2:25AM11
This discussion has been closed.