Please give us back Rapid Maneuver!

Varana

SilverBride wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

I don't have to PvP. I can park my char in the starting area of Battlegrounds and go make myself some coffee in the meantime, ruining three other players' PvP fun in the process. Win-win.

So you consider "ruining three other players' PvP fun in the process." acceptable? [Snip]


[Edited for bait]

Apparently, you consider ruining the fun of those who want to keep the Rapids they had (I specifically don't say "PvE players"), acceptable.
It's a bit childish, but there you go.

SilverBride

Varana wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

I don't have to PvP. I can park my char in the starting area of Battlegrounds and go make myself some coffee in the meantime, ruining three other players' PvP fun in the process. Win-win.

So you consider "ruining three other players' PvP fun in the process." acceptable? How narcissistic of you.

Apparently, you consider ruining the fun of those who want to keep the Rapids they had (I specifically don't say "PvE players"), acceptable.
It's a bit childish, but there you go.

[Snip]. The players whose PvP experience you are ruining didn't make this change. They aren't responsible for "ruining" your, or anyone else's fun. [Snip].

[Edited for baiting]

Triballian

An amazing business decision.n the year when C...p... 2..7 and B..d..r's G..e come out, games that have 100 million views on YT at the moment, you are forcing people out of your own game with unreasonable decisions. First Rapid Maneuver, now with these miserable daily rewards.Change employees in that sector as soon as possible, in the business world it is called positive fluctuation. Better for everyone.

Noisivid

[quote="Rowjoh;c-6934442")
I don't have to PvP. I can park my char in the starting area of Battlegrounds and go make myself some coffee in the meantime, ruining three other players' PvP fun in the process. Win-win.
Forcing players who don't want to into PvP is an exceptionally dumb idea.[/quote]

please don't do this. I'm speaking as someone who really dislikes the battlegrounds in this game. Please at least make an effort in BGs. I'm definitely not saying go all out and get special gear just for BGs or anything like that but try to work with whoever you are grouped with. of course, if someone starts being abusive in group chat report them every single time.

Elvenheart

Fuzzybrick wrote: »

I'm oblivious... Haven't read any notes, and I'm at work... You're saying rapids have been moved down to a higher rank so you don't start out with the skill? The only reason I hate cyrodiil is because it takes a month and a day to travel anywhere... Why would I go there now that I have to move slower?

You haven’t missed much 😉

In a nutshell, there have been several different threads with literally hundreds of posts first on the pts forums before the last update and then here after the update protesting the change and suggesting viable alternatives that would have made everyone happy.

Into this, add an interesting group of people who already seem to have both rapids and vigor that are mad because so many people are mad about the change. This group keeps telling non-pvpers how easy it will be for people to get rapids back because it was easy for THEM doing something they already enjoy doing anyway.

The non-pvpers quite reasonably keep trying to point out that the other solutions they’ve suggested, such as making vigor the first skill to unlock in the Support skill line, would have made this all a non-issue. But for some reason the people who like pvp seem to enjoy the fact that ZOS is now making non-pvpers have to engage in some sort of pvp to get a skill back that they’ve already had for 6+ years (wow, has it really been that long? How many precious minutes of my life have been lost to video games?).

And for some reason, instead of being mad at ZOS for locking important pvp equipment and skills behind pve activities they don’t enjoy, they seem more mad about the fact than non-pvpers don’t want to be forced to pvp. It’s like some sort of gleeful revenge thing that’s actually combining two totally different topics, like “How date you complain! We’ve had to pve for years to get the things WE want! How dare you be unhappy to have to pvp to get rapids back after enjoying it for so long! And, (the icing on the cake) you should have never even had it because it was only meant to be used in pvp!” Some of these interesting people would even like to go so far as to see ZOS make ALL the Alliance skills ONLY usable in pvp zones (now, if that isn’t the perfect example of cutting off your nose to spite your face, I don’t know what is).

It’s obvious that no one on either side is going to be swayed by the other side’s argument (really, if some has read a post on here from the opposing side that has converted them, I’d like to know 🤣). This topic should have never devolved into a war between players. It’s okay for people to be upset and confused by the change and want answers. It’s okay for people to be mad to have to pve to get something they want for pvp. It’s okay for people to be mad to have to pvp to get something they want for pve. All parts of this game are played in all different ways by all different players, and that’s okay.

WeerW3ir

Elvenheart wrote: »

Fuzzybrick wrote: »

I'm oblivious... Haven't read any notes, and I'm at work... You're saying rapids have been moved down to a higher rank so you don't start out with the skill? The only reason I hate cyrodiil is because it takes a month and a day to travel anywhere... Why would I go there now that I have to move slower?

You haven’t missed much 😉

In a nutshell, there have been several different threads with literally hundreds of posts first on the pts forums before the last update and then here after the update protesting the change and suggesting viable alternatives that would have made everyone happy.

Into this, add an interesting group of people who already seem to have both rapids and vigor that are mad because so many people are mad about the change. This group keeps telling non-pvpers how easy it will be for people to get rapids back because it was easy for THEM doing something they already enjoy doing anyway.

The non-pvpers quite reasonably keep trying to point out that the other solutions they’ve suggested, such as making vigor the first skill to unlock in the Support skill line, would have made this all a non-issue. But for some reason the people who like pvp seem to enjoy the fact that ZOS is now making non-pvpers have to engage in some sort of pvp to get a skill back that they’ve already had for 6+ years (wow, has it really been that long? How many precious minutes of my life have been lost to video games?).

And for some reason, instead of being mad at ZOS for locking important pvp equipment and skills behind pve activities they don’t enjoy, they seem more mad about the fact than non-pvpers don’t want to be forced to pvp. It’s like some sort of gleeful revenge thing that’s actually combining two totally different topics, like “How date you complain! We’ve had to pve for years to get the things WE want! How dare you be unhappy to have to pvp to get rapids back after enjoying it for so long! And, (the icing on the cake) you should have never even had it because it was only meant to be used in pvp!” Some of these interesting people would even like to go so far as to see ZOS make ALL the Alliance skills ONLY usable in pvp zones (now, if that isn’t the perfect example of cutting off your nose to spite your face, I don’t know what is).

It’s obvious that no one on either side is going to be swayed by the other side’s argument (really, if some has read a post on here from the opposing side that has converted them, I’d like to know 🤣). This topic should have never devolved into a war between players. It’s okay for people to be upset and confused by the change and want answers. It’s okay for people to be mad to have to pve to get something they want for pvp. It’s okay for people to be mad to have to pvp to get something they want for pve. All parts of this game are played in all different ways by all different players, and that’s okay.

Only usable in alliance war... Would make sense... 🧐

JoeCapricorn

OldManJim wrote: »

This really has devolved into pointless bickering.

I don't think anything of value can be added by either the for or against camps.

Can the mods simply close this thread?

I'd rather that not happen, but if people could PLEASE be civil in this discussion that would be great.

My will to fight for this has taken a major hit because my gecko died, I am gutted over it

esotoon

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

I'd rather that not happen, but if people could PLEASE be civil in this discussion that would be great.

Amen.

My will to fight for this has taken a major hit because my gecko died, I am gutted over it

Sorry to hear that.

TineaCruris

The change was made to encourage crown store sales of mount training and alliance skill lines.

There is no in game rationale for the change.

Iluvrien

For me, rapids stopped being identifiable as a PvP skill the moment ZOS put AP into the daily login rewards.

On the first day that happened people could gain the skill doing nothing more than logging in. That was the 6th of June 2018, the very first month that daily login rewards were included.

Every time they included an AP reward they effectively restated this.

Even with the rapids change and the statement that they intended for rapids to be a PvP skill... the day 4 login reward for this month is AP. Again.

The statement about rapids' intended use is meaningless when the mechanism by which it can be achieved with no PvP whatsoever is put into place by ZOS themselves.

As such, I would argue that talking about how a skill is intended to be achieved is moot on the basis that ZOS itself is unable to maintain consistency.


What is interesting to me, is why ZOS chose to move the goalposts on this one. They allowed people to access, and use, the skill purely by logging in for over two years before coming to the conclusion that people shouldn't have had it.

It seems to be stating the obvious that it is unlikely that a competent business would take 26 months to recognise an error (giving us rapids), state they are correcting it (skill tree reordering), and then not actually correct it (retain AP in rewards). It doesn't stand up. Whether this is about server calculations, selling mounts, selling riding lessons, or something else... I don't know. We probably never will. But I would really like to.

Sgrug

Iluvrien wrote: »

For me, rapids stopped being identifiable as a PvP skill the moment ZOS put AP into the daily login rewards.

On the first day that happened people could gain the skill doing nothing more than logging in. That was the 6th of June 2018, the very first month that daily login rewards were included.

Every time they included an AP reward they effectively restated this.

Even with the rapids change and the statement that they intended for rapids to be a PvP skill... the day 4 login reward for this month is AP. Again.

The statement about rapids' intended use is meaningless when the mechanism by which it can be achieved with no PvP whatsoever is put into place by ZOS themselves.

As such, I would argue that talking about how a skill is intended to be achieved is moot on the basis that ZOS itself is unable to maintain consistency.


What is interesting to me, is why ZOS chose to move the goalposts on this one. They allowed people to access, and use, the skill purely by logging in for over two years before coming to the conclusion that people shouldn't have had it.

It seems to be stating the obvious that it is unlikely that a competent business would take 26 months to recognise an error (giving us rapids), state they are correcting it (skill tree reordering), and then not actually correct it (retain AP in rewards). It doesn't stand up. Whether this is about server calculations, selling mounts, selling riding lessons, or something else... I don't know. We probably never will. But I would really like to.

Spot on but one technical point, it was not 26 months, it has been over 72 Months, rapids has been available as level one since beta.

To now be asked to believe this was an error they have just got around to fixing after 6 years assumes some pretty poor things about the player base's cognitive abilities.

Jaraal

esotoon wrote: »

Jensmom wrote: »

I am sick and tired of the devs ruining the game for PvE players to make PvP people happy. First it was Earthgore.

The developers have said that this change was in order to give PVE players easy access to a stam heal. So you are blaming the wrong player base.

And yet, in the same breath they say other PvP skills (Rapids) were never meant for PvE players.


Talk about double standards.

Iluvrien

Sgrug wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

For me, rapids stopped being identifiable as a PvP skill the moment ZOS put AP into the daily login rewards.

On the first day that happened people could gain the skill doing nothing more than logging in. That was the 6th of June 2018, the very first month that daily login rewards were included.

Every time they included an AP reward they effectively restated this.

Even with the rapids change and the statement that they intended for rapids to be a PvP skill... the day 4 login reward for this month is AP. Again.

The statement about rapids' intended use is meaningless when the mechanism by which it can be achieved with no PvP whatsoever is put into place by ZOS themselves.

As such, I would argue that talking about how a skill is intended to be achieved is moot on the basis that ZOS itself is unable to maintain consistency.


What is interesting to me, is why ZOS chose to move the goalposts on this one. They allowed people to access, and use, the skill purely by logging in for over two years before coming to the conclusion that people shouldn't have had it.

It seems to be stating the obvious that it is unlikely that a competent business would take 26 months to recognise an error (giving us rapids), state they are correcting it (skill tree reordering), and then not actually correct it (retain AP in rewards). It doesn't stand up. Whether this is about server calculations, selling mounts, selling riding lessons, or something else... I don't know. We probably never will. But I would really like to.

Spot on but one technical point, it was not 26 months, it has been over 72 Months, rapids has been available as level one since beta.

To now be asked to believe this was an error they have just got around to fixing after 6 years assumes some pretty poor things about the player base's cognitive abilities.

It has been available as level one since beta... however between March 2014 (PC early access) and June 2018 (daily rewards) the only mechanism I am aware of that could bestow it is by doing the initial quest in Cyrodiil. My point was that through daily rewards ZOS had given players access to rapids without ever having to step foot in Cyrodiil. At all. As such, the suggestion that rapids is PvP only (either by ZOS or players) has contrary evidence in every batch of AP given out in daily rewards for each month, including this one.

My apologies if this was not clear in my post.

Rexy18

TineaCruris wrote: »

The change was made to encourage crown store sales of mount training and alliance skill lines.

There is no in game rationale for the change.

Worst part about this is that it's only gonna take 1-1.5 hours to get rapids during the double AP event, so pretty much nobody will be buying this stuff (unless you're rich and stupid or extremely lazy), so the end result is little to no profit for Zo$ and an inconvenience to those who don't like PvP.

Sgrug

Iluvrien wrote: »

Sgrug wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

For me, rapids stopped being identifiable as a PvP skill the moment ZOS put AP into the daily login rewards.

On the first day that happened people could gain the skill doing nothing more than logging in. That was the 6th of June 2018, the very first month that daily login rewards were included.

Every time they included an AP reward they effectively restated this.

Even with the rapids change and the statement that they intended for rapids to be a PvP skill... the day 4 login reward for this month is AP. Again.

The statement about rapids' intended use is meaningless when the mechanism by which it can be achieved with no PvP whatsoever is put into place by ZOS themselves.

As such, I would argue that talking about how a skill is intended to be achieved is moot on the basis that ZOS itself is unable to maintain consistency.


What is interesting to me, is why ZOS chose to move the goalposts on this one. They allowed people to access, and use, the skill purely by logging in for over two years before coming to the conclusion that people shouldn't have had it.

It seems to be stating the obvious that it is unlikely that a competent business would take 26 months to recognise an error (giving us rapids), state they are correcting it (skill tree reordering), and then not actually correct it (retain AP in rewards). It doesn't stand up. Whether this is about server calculations, selling mounts, selling riding lessons, or something else... I don't know. We probably never will. But I would really like to.

Spot on but one technical point, it was not 26 months, it has been over 72 Months, rapids has been available as level one since beta.

To now be asked to believe this was an error they have just got around to fixing after 6 years assumes some pretty poor things about the player base's cognitive abilities.

It has been available as level one since beta... however between March 2014 (PC early access) and June 2018 (daily rewards) the only mechanism I am aware of that could bestow it is by doing the initial quest in Cyrodiil. My point was that through daily rewards ZOS had given players access to rapids without ever having to step foot in Cyrodiil. At all. As such, the suggestion that rapids is PvP only (either by ZOS or players) has contrary evidence in every batch of AP given out in daily rewards for each month, including this one.

My apologies if this was not clear in my post.

Gotcha, Your point is much stronger than mine, both however undermine the idea that rapids was supposed to be PVP only, that dog just does not hunt.

fierackas

Rexy18 wrote: »

TineaCruris wrote: »

The change was made to encourage crown store sales of mount training and alliance skill lines.

There is no in game rationale for the change.

Worst part about this is that it's only gonna take 1-1.5 hours to get rapids during the double AP event, so pretty much nobody will be buying this stuff (unless you're rich and stupid or extremely lazy), so the end result is little to no profit for Zo$ and an inconvenience to those who don't like PvP.

Plus a loss of a lot of goodwill

Elvenheart

Rexy18 wrote: »

TineaCruris wrote: »

The change was made to encourage crown store sales of mount training and alliance skill lines.

There is no in game rationale for the change.

Worst part about this is that it's only gonna take 1-1.5 hours to get rapids during the double AP event, so pretty much nobody will be buying this stuff (unless you're rich and stupid or extremely lazy), so the end result is little to no profit for Zo$ and an inconvenience to those who don't like PvP.

In line with this, the worst WORST part are the customers they may have lost over this I’ll thought out change...if even half of the people who say they have or will unsub over this actually do, that hurts the game, which then hurts my enjoyment of the game. That’s why I’m upset, that they seem willing to go through with a change that so many people were against for good reasons when there is a solution that would make everyone with an iron in the fire happy.

SilverBride

Elvenheart wrote: »

if even half of the people who say they have or will unsub over this actually do, that hurts the game

I really doubt that happens. People say things in the heat of the moment, but often make a different choice when they have had time to cool down.

Varana

To get Rapids, you need +90k AP.
The current September rewards net you a whopping 2k.
IIRC, August didn't have any AP rewards, at all.
At this rate, I'd need years to complete Alliance rank 5 purely through login rewards.
So while it may be technically correct that you don't need to PvP to get that rank, it doesn't really help anyone.

Second topic: That quote about "Rapids being a PvP skill" was not from any ZOS developer. It was not said by either Firor or Lambert during that stream. It was the personal opinion of Kai Schober, the German community manager. And while I really respect him for the job he does (better than the English ones, generally speaking), he is not a developer, and this opinion of his shouldn't be taken as reflecting ZOS' current or original stance on that matter.
TLDR: ZOS never said that Rapids was intended to be a PvP skill.

Iluvrien

Varana wrote: »

To get Rapids, you need +90k AP.
The current September rewards net you a whopping 2k.
IIRC, August didn't have any AP rewards, at all.
At this rate, I'd need years to complete Alliance rank 5 purely through login rewards.
So while it may be technically correct that you don't need to PvP to get that rank, it doesn't really help anyone.

August rewards

Day 27: Alliance Points (2,000)
Day 30: Alliance Points (2,500)

Edit: Also...

July - Day 7 - Alliance Points (2,000)
April - Day 23 - Alliance Points (1,000)
April - Day 26 - Alliance Points (2,000)
April - Day 29 - Alliance Points (3,000)
January - Day 22 - Alliance Points (2,000)
January - Day 24 - Alliance Points (2,000)
January - Day 26 - Alliance Points (2,000)
January - Day 28 - Alliance Points (2,000)
January - Day 30 - Alliance Points (2,000)

Sum total seems to be about 24.5k for the year so far.

Yep, it definitely will take years on that basis.

Hence why I am, and always have been, entirely against this change.

JoeCapricorn

There is no way to gain AP with pure PvE

You can do the town quests, but that is 250 AP per quest. These aren't purely PvE quests though, because there is always that chance of someone ganking you.

10 for Bruma, 10 for Cheydinhal, 9 for Cropsford, 9 for Vlastarus and 5 for Chorral: 10,750 AP

How long does it take to get that done though? I'd say about an hour per town. That is if things go smoothly and you don't keep getting ganked. And if you are in a town that is far from the nearest keep your alliance holds, the ride back is going to be long and painful. Pact players have it the best since Cheydinhal is near home keeps and relatively near the gates as well, and it has 10 quests. It is also not a town that can be captured like Bruma or Cropsford (though guards will patrol it depending on which alliance has Farragut) But even then, if only Cheydinhal is done, that is 2500 per day. This would take 40 days.

That is also just for one character, and there will always be that possibility of getting ganked. For Cheydinhal the riskiest quest is the one that takes you to Vahtecen, because sometimes another alliance owns the Outpost nearby and I've encountered players from those alliances near there. I also was able to get away because I had rapids though...

And yeah, it was Kai that said Rapids was a PVP skill. But I consider his statement a bit more important because until I came across it, there wasn't any comment by any ZOS employee outside of moderators doing moderator stuff. In that same post, he also says it is unfortunate to take something away from players that they had for so long.

If this really was some kind of ploy to get people to spend crowns on Alliance skill lines, that is a really crappy thing to do. It would be responsible for ZOS to definitively prove that line of thinking wrong by returning Rapids back to the masses.

If money is a motivator, then surely ZOS noticed the number of people who unsubscribed of late, right? That includes me. My subscription runs out in December, so I am still playing, but I am not going to resub until at the very least a compromise is put forward. I will be more likely to restore my subscription if ZOS reverses the change to Rapids specifically so that every alt of mine can regain it without any PVP necessary.

pkostadinov

nukk3r wrote: »

I said before that you can invest gold in your first stack of repair kits. 18k gold is easy even for a brand new player, there's a ton of guides on how to do that. After that you can buy the kits with the AP you get.

As an expensive way to avoid PvP and get ranks, you have some point here - with the rate in your video, you will get the 90k AP needed to get from rank 3 to rank 5 in 2:15 hours.

But the second part isn't even close to be true - if you buy all repair kits with gold it will cost you 128 520, if you spend all AP you get, the price drops to 101 520 gold. These are not sums a new player can get easily.

Here are the numbers:
For rank 3 -> 5 you need 90k AP.
At rate 63 AP per kit - that is ~1428 kits.
One kit costs either 90g or 300AP.
If you use all 90k AP, you can buy 300 kits,
So you need to buy 1128 with gold on total cost of 101 520.

And that is if you get 63 AP per kit ... I was getting 54 this evening, so that would cost me 123k gold in the best case.

Sgrug

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

There is no way to gain AP with pure PvE

You can do the town quests, but that is 250 AP per quest. These aren't purely PvE quests though, because there is always that chance of someone ganking you.

10 for Bruma, 10 for Cheydinhal, 9 for Cropsford, 9 for Vlastarus and 5 for Chorral: 10,750 AP

How long does it take to get that done though? I'd say about an hour per town. That is if things go smoothly and you don't keep getting ganked. And if you are in a town that is far from the nearest keep your alliance holds, the ride back is going to be long and painful. Pact players have it the best since Cheydinhal is near home keeps and relatively near the gates as well, and it has 10 quests. It is also not a town that can be captured like Bruma or Cropsford (though guards will patrol it depending on which alliance has Farragut) But even then, if only Cheydinhal is done, that is 2500 per day. This would take 40 days.

That is also just for one character, and there will always be that possibility of getting ganked. For Cheydinhal the riskiest quest is the one that takes you to Vahtecen, because sometimes another alliance owns the Outpost nearby and I've encountered players from those alliances near there. I also was able to get away because I had rapids though...

And yeah, it was Kai that said Rapids was a PVP skill. But I consider his statement a bit more important because until I came across it, there wasn't any comment by any ZOS employee outside of moderators doing moderator stuff. In that same post, he also says it is unfortunate to take something away from players that they had for so long.

If this really was some kind of ploy to get people to spend crowns on Alliance skill lines, that is a really crappy thing to do. It would be responsible for ZOS to definitively prove that line of thinking wrong by returning Rapids back to the masses.

If money is a motivator, then surely ZOS noticed the number of people who unsubscribed of late, right? That includes me. My subscription runs out in December, so I am still playing, but I am not going to resub until at the very least a compromise is put forward. I will be more likely to restore my subscription if ZOS reverses the change to Rapids specifically so that every alt of mine can regain it without any PVP necessary.

I will add to this, my sub runs out in Nov, I DO NOT PLAN to re-sub unless something changes with rapids. I am not quitting but will be looking and after having bought EVERY DLC, ALWAYS BEEN A SUBSCRIBER, and spent tons of real world cash in the crown store I have now been put in place where I no longer will support this business if this continues.

Come Nov / Dec I will be looking at a new MMO which is convenient because several will be just starting up between now and then. Unless something changes with rapids specifically and possibly this deep disrespect of the players It will be time to move on.

You just don't take away 6 year old game skills like this and expect us to ask for another black eye.

esotoon

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

There is no way to gain AP with pure PvE

Depends what you consider "pure PVE". You can repair Keep walls. This will depend on the state of the map, but all things being equal, if your faction has their home Keeps, you can usually find walls to repair. If you feel braver, you can 'leech' AP. Oftentimes resources around the Home Keeps (the 3 Keeps nearest your gate) will be flipped, because they are often the daily resource quest for enemy players. So when they are owned by an opposing faction, watch the map and look for them to start to flip back, then head to the resource and get the AP as it flips. (You can do this at resources further into the battle field, but these are more risky)

If you are feeling braver still. You can try and leech from defensive ticks. If you see one of your Keeps is under attack. Go there and try to get one rep in (Postern platforms are often the most likely to need repping). Just get one rep in and head away from the keep to safety. If your faction manages to defend it successfully you will get the defensive tick. Leeching from offensive ticks (your faction capturing a Keep) is probably too risky if you want to not have any contact with enemy players at all, so probably best not done unless you are on a campaign, at a time where your faction has numbers and the other factions don't, and they are effectively PVDooring the map. Just head to the keep being taken and hide on the outside by the wall (pref away from where the breech is and away from any door the enemy might try to get into the Keep through). Wait for the Keep to flip and you will get the AP (just watch out for the patrolling npc guards whilst the Keep is still in enemy hands).

Other tips to look out for. You can get a 20% AP boost for an hour from killing a delve boss. If your Faction has all it's Home Keeps, you will get a 5% AP bonus. There are 3 "Edge Keeps" (Dragonclaw, Brindle and Drakelowe). For every Edge Keep your faction owns, you get an 8% AP increase. Finally, when you rep doors and walls you are actually healing them. Because of this if you have a source of Minor Healing (Templars have a passive which gives it, or a set like Healers Habit) you will get an 8% increase in the amount of 'healing you do', and as a result you get more AP per repair so you can get AP faster. In the CP campaign, this also applies to getting 15% extra healing from putting 100 CP into Blessed.

So yes it is possible to do without seeing another enemy. It will take a while, and depend a lot on the state of the map at the time, but in theory you could probably do it in 2-3 hours just by repping walls if you have the bonuses, a lot longer without (or if you can't find walls to rep). Be aware though, as others have pointed out, if you go purely the repping walls route it will cost a lot of gold.

DarcyMardin

I’m not resubscribing when my two subs run out next, either. Solely because of this. I have been here since the start, have several accounts, and yes, I am *that* upset.

joerginger

I didn't intend to repeat myself, but as of now the change has cost ZOS the subscription on my second account which was cancelled a couple of days after that abominable patch without anyone from ZOS even bothering to say sorry for the greedy blatant cash grab, aka "Sorry, this time we went too far even by our own absolutely abysmal standards." The fact that they even went as far as providing "alternative facts" as the supposed reason for this abhorrent change is the reason of another thing ZOS has lost now, which may sound trivial, but it's my goodwill. Now I know I not only should expect the very worst possioble thing that could happen, now I know that my imagination simply isn't even remotely screwed enough to even imagine the utter horrors ZOS can come up with and will immediately put into action. This is absolutely horrible because ESO could be the an absolutely wonderful game.
The subscription on my main account is still running for about half a year, but unless there will be a very very big change of direction, ZOS should not count on any more money coming from my direction.

Zephiran23

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

There is no way to gain AP with pure PvE

You can do the town quests, but that is 250 AP per quest. These aren't purely PvE quests though, because there is always that chance of someone ganking you.

10 for Bruma, 10 for Cheydinhal, 9 for Cropsford, 9 for Vlastarus and 5 for Chorral: 10,750 AP

How long does it take to get that done though? I'd say about an hour per town. That is if things go smoothly and you don't keep getting ganked. And if you are in a town that is far from the nearest keep your alliance holds, the ride back is going to be long and painful. Pact players have it the best since Cheydinhal is near home keeps and relatively near the gates as well, and it has 10 quests. It is also not a town that can be captured like Bruma or Cropsford (though guards will patrol it depending on which alliance has Farragut) But even then, if only Cheydinhal is done, that is 2500 per day. This would take 40 days.

That is also just for one character, and there will always be that possibility of getting ganked. For Cheydinhal the riskiest quest is the one that takes you to Vahtecen, because sometimes another alliance owns the Outpost nearby and I've encountered players from those alliances near there. I also was able to get away because I had rapids though...

And yeah, it was Kai that said Rapids was a PVP skill. But I consider his statement a bit more important because until I came across it, there wasn't any comment by any ZOS employee outside of moderators doing moderator stuff. In that same post, he also says it is unfortunate to take something away from players that they had for so long.

If this really was some kind of ploy to get people to spend crowns on Alliance skill lines, that is a really crappy thing to do. It would be responsible for ZOS to definitively prove that line of thinking wrong by returning Rapids back to the masses.

If money is a motivator, then surely ZOS noticed the number of people who unsubscribed of late, right? That includes me. My subscription runs out in December, so I am still playing, but I am not going to resub until at the very least a compromise is put forward. I will be more likely to restore my subscription if ZOS reverses the change to Rapids specifically so that every alt of mine can regain it without any PVP necessary.

There's another 5 quests from Weynon Priory that you could add to the Chorrol quests, since they are in the same general area. Both those sets of quests require a lot of riding for some if you can't use the keeps to fast travel.

Alinhbo_Tyaka

It was boneheaded decisions like this coming from development folks that made me decide to drop my ESO+ subscription and move on to other games. From my perspective the game and its direction has regressed to about the same place it was at the end of the beta which is why I didn't bother looking at the game for four years. By the time Summerset came out ESO had improved considerably but it didn't last long as the past year has seen all of the improvements disappear and ZOS return to a tone deaf organization as far as its player base is concerned.

JoeCapricorn

Zephiran23 wrote: »

There's another 5 quests from Weynon Priory that you could add to the Chorrol quests, since they are in the same general area. Both those sets of quests require a lot of riding for some if you can't use the keeps to fast travel.

Oh! I forgot about those!

Yeah, they required a lot of riding, which for someone who is trying to get Rapids back, is going to suck.

Nicole94

SilverBride wrote: »

Elvenheart wrote: »

if even half of the people who say they have or will unsub over this actually do, that hurts the game

I really doubt that happens. People say things in the heat of the moment, but often make a different choice when they have had time to cool down.

You can doubt all you want. I am not happy with them just dropping this on us, but more so I am disappointed they have not responded with ANY comment, other than acting like a parental figure and telling us all to play nice in the forums. The moderators have allowed this conversation to become insulting with people pro-change and anti-change fighting in the forums with completely fruitless conversations about what this or that should be, has been or whatever. They will probably remove this post too, or snip out truthful points.

The Truth? They didn't think this through, OR they have a reason and do not respect their fanbase enough to share that reason.
I work in IT, change is SELDOM a great thing that all appreciate, but I have found explaining the situation to clients almost ALWAYS results in at least acceptance, if not a positive outcome. Ignore a client and you will lose a customer and by the time word of mouth or reviews circulate you are hemorrhaging clients.

I have played since 3/2/14. I have been averaging over $50 a month for this game I loved. It is not that the skill was changed, it was the complete and TOTAL lack of respect they have given the community that has supported them through good times and bad.

No one likes this change. Pvpers that stay in under 50 Cyrodiil hate it, because how do you level? You run Dolmens, and you chase skyshards. Level 50's whether CP or no CP hate it too, because now you are either stuck on developed characters, or you will deal with sitting a character in front of a stablemaster for 30 days minimal, before you start moving it.

No one is going to have a "cool down" Every single time I get on my baby Templar and, out of memory hit rapids, except NOW it is puncturing sweep and Oh great I just attacked the guard, I get mad all over again. Soon it will be max speed and FINALLY I can start developing it, AGAIN.

I don't threaten to unsub. I give them opportunities to address the reason. ZoS please do not insult my intelligence with this being "intended for Cyrodiil only skill" That would have been perfect reason if this was 2015, it's not, and you didn't "take it away" you made it more inconvenient to get quickly. So that excuse didn't make any sense. I see no way this stall in getting rapids will help with performance, unless your goal is to reduce the amount of players playing.