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Proc Sets Are Fun: The Silent Majority

sabresandiego_ESO
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Most new sets in this game are proc sets, and for a good reason: they give the devs a lot of creative ability and are a lot of fun for the majority of players. You get cool new animations and game mechanics and if the set was designed properly, it usually has fair counterplay and good balance.

Unfortunately there is a very vocal minority who always post in these forums against proc sets. These players are almost always high level PVP'rs (often duelers) with very big egos who think that their personal assessment of "skill" matters more than "fun" for the majority of players. These elitists are usually heavily invested in stat based builds and run things like balorghs, new moon, fury, clever alch, dragonguard, bloodspawn: and are extremely biased towards their investment and the way they have been playing this game for years. Their primary argument is that proc sets remove skill from the game because they fight for you, whereas with stat sets and stat based procs -> you still have to do the fighting. Let me explain why that is a false premise

1. When you use a damage proc set you give up the buffed stats you would have gotten with a stat based 5 piece set. This means that your entire character is less effective and unless the proc set is good enough of an alternative to this "opportunity cost" -> nobody will use it over the stat sets

2. No proc set is good enough where you don't have to "play" , because these sets go through balance testing. Whether you are using procs, or stat sets -> you still have to play the game. Proc sets do help newer/worse players contribute more, so they raise the skill floor -> but they don't lower the skill ceiling much at all because high end players understand counterplay and always adapt to new metas.

3. Devs have data: They can see that most of the high end PVPrs were using stat sets... They know that stat based builds have been over performing in most PVP compared to proc sets since this game was made. The only place where procs might be outperforming stats now is in Battlegrounds or on malacath builds, and that is refreshing because it creates alternative gameplay. Data > Biased rants on forums; and that is likely the reason why they recently improved all proc sets.

This game is about fun, not about some elitist measurement of skill. Proc sets give the devs so much more creative potential than most simple stat buff sets, and are fun for the majority of the player base. When properly balanced they raise the skill floor just enough to help weaker players contribute and enjoy the game more (without lowering the skill ceiling much), and they also help keep this game new and exciting.
Edited by sabresandiego_ESO on October 21, 2020 3:20PM
Ali Dreadsabre -Necromancer
Ali Sabre -Nightblade
  • mairwen85
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    @sabresandiego_ESO

    A gift for when the more expressive players enter the conversation:
    61s1nbdqmpL._AC_SX466_.jpg

    I agree that proc sets should have their place and using them or not should be a build choice in PvP. However, historically, players have shown how broken they can build and maximise on ZOS' oversights. It would be good for ZOS to recognise this and balance around their choices in this instance.

    Edited by mairwen85 on July 23, 2020 2:24PM
  • Firstmep
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    Most new sets in this game are proc sets, and for a good reason: they give the devs a lot of creative ability and are a lot of fun for the majority of players. You get cool new animations and game mechanics and if the set was designed properly, it usually has fair counterplay and good balance.

    Unfortunately there is a very vocal minority of elitists and purists who always post in these forums against proc sets. These players are almost always high level PVP'rs (often duelers) with very big egos who think that their personal assessment of "skill" matters more than "fun" for the majority of players. These elitists are usually heavily invested in stat based builds and run things like balorghs, new moon, fury, clever alch, dragonguard, bloodspawn: and are extremely biased towards their investment and the way they have been playing this game for years. Their primary argument is that proc sets remove skill from the game because they fight for you, whereas with stat sets and stat based procs -> you still have to do the fighting. Let me explain why that is a false premise

    1. When you use a damage proc set you give up the buffed stats you would have gotten with a stat based 5 piece set. This means that your entire character is less effective and unless the proc set is good enough of an alternative to this "opportunity cost" -> nobody will use it over the stat sets

    2. No proc set is good enough where you don't have to "play" , because these sets go through balance testing. Whether you are using procs, or stat sets -> you still have to play the game. Proc sets do help newer/worse players contribute more, so they raise the skill floor -> but they don't lower the skill ceiling much at all because high end players understand counterplay and always adapt to new metas.

    3. Devs have data: They can see that most of the high end PVPrs are using things like Balorghs, Bloodspawn, New Moon, Dragonguard, Fury, Clever Alch etc... They know that stat based builds and procs have been over performing in most PVP compared to proc sets since this game was made. Data > Biased rants on forums

    This game is about fun, not about some elitist measurement of skill. Proc sets give the devs so much more creative potential than most simple stat buff sets, and are fun for the majority of the player base. They also help shift metas around which keeps this game new and exciting.

    I implore you to come to pc EU and play a few bgs, and then say stat based builds are stronger xD.
    I like the idea of proc sets, but I do think that they provide too much offensive power.
    And with the recent nerf to healing, a lot of healing skills no longer scale all that well with stats anyway, at least in no cp.
    You can bump your weapon dmg by like 1k and barely feel the difference in vigor heals.
    There is a reason why sets like malubeth, and hp recovery in general have become so popular.
    Ive already made this point in other threads, but IMHO procsets should scale like regular skills and that would be a limitation enough itself.
  • Onefrkncrzypope
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    A proc set is fun. Entire spec built around just la and killing people is not. The point that it outplays a person built on, idk using skills, that is the problem.
    -Immortal Redeemer-
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    If I edited a post, it was for spelling. It is always because of spelling....
  • Ragnaroek93
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    WoW has a proc meta too, pvp participation there is at an all time low and everybody hates it. There is no silent majority which enjoys AFK dmg mechanics.

    And nope, the elitist will build and play around procsets far better than casuals and abuse to much further extend. The people who put effort into their class and enjoy the gameplay how it is are the ones who are annoyed by proc metas.
    Edited by Ragnaroek93 on July 23, 2020 2:28PM
    I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.
  • sabresandiego_ESO
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    wrote:
    I implore you to come to pc EU and play a few bgs, and then say stat based builds are stronger xD.
    I like the idea of proc sets, but I do think that they provide too much offensive power.
    And with the recent nerf to healing, a lot of healing skills no longer scale all that well with stats anyway, at least in no cp.
    You can bump your weapon dmg by like 1k and barely feel the difference in vigor heals.
    There is a reason why sets like malubeth, and hp recovery in general have become so popular.
    Ive already made this point in other threads, but IMHO procsets should scale like regular skills and that would be a limitation enough itself.

    I personally play high MMR bg's exclusively. Proc builds are definitely very strong in NOCP, as I stated in my post. I like that because it is a refreshing change compared to CP where stat builds typically dominate. I go back and forth between stat builds and proc builds even in NOCP because the balance is pretty close. Shifting metas are fun. Games become stale when they stagnate
    Edited by sabresandiego_ESO on July 23, 2020 2:32PM
    Ali Dreadsabre -Necromancer
    Ali Sabre -Nightblade
  • sabresandiego_ESO
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    A proc set is fun. Entire spec built around just la and killing people is not. The point that it outplays a person built on, idk using skills, that is the problem.

    There is no build where you will consistently kill a decent player who is using all of his abilities by only using light attacks. That's a completely fake narrative that people who dislike proc sets always use. Proc sets do tend to raise the skill floor without lowering the skill ceiling too much -> because good players adapt and counterplay. You're not gonna kill a good player in this game by only light attacking, trust me
    Edited by sabresandiego_ESO on July 23, 2020 2:40PM
    Ali Dreadsabre -Necromancer
    Ali Sabre -Nightblade
  • relentless_turnip
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    I'm just going to put this here:
    https://youtu.be/v8Ql5gZomRw

    I am not against proc sets, they shouldn't be better than skills as they are currently proposed. As else explains in the video above, you can invest all of your remaining stats to be very tanky, still have great damage and healing.

    This doesn't help new players it just shifts the meta I.e. best in slot, the people killing you in this patch will kill you easier in the next and take less damage whilst doing so.

    If proc sets are a viable alternative to stat based builds and not better then we will see diversity and not a meta. Greymoor took strides in creating more build diversity and reducing the tank meta. This is a step back in my opinion.

    Also notice in the video he demonstrates that he only attacks with light attacks, ele drain and flies. The proc sets are doing the rest... I believe they should be a viable alternative and not better. Build diversity is fun, the meta will make things dull especially for those that want to play more than proc sets allow you to.

    I understand many are very against proc sets, I am not I just don't think they should be BIS. This patch is on the path to feel very similar to scalebreaker and if not adjusted during this PTS cycle we will just see them all nerfed again in u28. After which we will be back in a tank meta.

    I hope they adjust them to that of a equivalent skill or have them scale with your stats as suggested or many other excellent suggestions made by the community.
  • WoppaBoem
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    Wow toxic fast, I played OP proc build before, really it get boring really fast, its like automated dmg, fun the first few times and then its like it doesn't even matter I here, and then you lose all joy.

    Believe I played many setup, proc can be very OP good fun for laugh and giggles but does not feel as real gameplay.
    Xbox EU & NA - PVP Only
  • sabresandiego_ESO
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    WoppaBoem wrote: »
    Wow toxic fast, I played OP proc build before, really it get boring really fast, its like automated dmg, fun the first few times and then its like it doesn't even matter I here, and then you lose all joy.

    Believe I played many setup, proc can be very OP good fun for laugh and giggles but does not feel as real gameplay.

    Boring for you doesn't mean boring for everyone. Stat sets usually offer little to no new gameplay mechanics or animations -> its the same game over and over. Proc sets create new gameplay to adapt to, making the game new and exciting.

    Raising the skill floor is a good thing (only to a certain extent), so that the unskilled "masses" can enjoy this game too and not only elite players. Proc sets accomplish this because a bad player can do good damage by landing a couple light attacks or an ability. Why should only elite players enjoy the game? Let weaker players have fun too.

    The important thing to also remember here, is that raising the skill floor is good (only to a certain extent) because more players are having fun, but proc sets don't lower the skill ceiling much because good players are always adapting to new metas, and using counterplay. These sets don't raise the skill floor too high, to the point where the gameplay is worse (in my opinion).

    The skill ceiling is still high in this game, despite this game being about "fun" and not some elitist measure of "skill" to begin with. This is not a competitive esports game like counterstrike, its a fun MMO. Its already commendable how high the skill ceiling is in a game that's focused on being fun.
    Edited by sabresandiego_ESO on July 23, 2020 3:00PM
    Ali Dreadsabre -Necromancer
    Ali Sabre -Nightblade
  • Casul
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    So basically if you dislike getting hit with a 7k calurrion proc then you are an elitist. Got it.
    PvP needs more love.
  • jaws343
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    I enjoy using proc sets. And I actually use Calurians on a few builds. But Sheer Venom and Spin to Win is coming to wreck things in the next patch as things stand right now.
  • Moonsorrow
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    WoW has a proc meta too, pvp participation there is at an all time low and everybody hates it. There is no silent majority which enjoys AFK dmg mechanics.

    And nope, the elitist will build and play around procsets far better than casuals and abuse to much further extend. The people who put effort into their class and enjoy the gameplay how it is are the ones who are annoyed by proc metas.

    This.

    The thing is.. without proc heavy setup/build meta can actually use class abilities (that are still not nerfed to uselessness) so that playing each classes feels a bit different. It is important for us who have played for years and play all classes/specs.

    In a very heavy proc meta, all classes feel like same since can put same combo on all of them, well mag and stam version, and they all play like the same, only difference is if you have Streak, Purge or Mitigation Ghostie and so on. It makes things more bland and all about just 1 spammable/LA and then Execute.

    And people get bored fast.

    I know, this might seem like "elitist" view on someone agreeing on this topic, but i do not mind having 1 proc set on build, and yes many of them are fun and have nice effects. But when/if it goes to the 2-3 SAME (most efficient) proc sets for all with Malacath, it just is boring after the first weeks and why switch class when same setup for that too?

    Meh, no point trying to explain these, have tried for years.. so given up already.

  • sabresandiego_ESO
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    I'm just going to put this here:

    I watched the video and here is what I have to say: Dueling is only one form of pvp. Its a form of PVP where stat builds have primarily dominated for the entire life of ESO. I believe that video delivers a fake narrative because he is not dueling against a dueling build.

    If proc builds are finally better in dueling than stat builds (which I highly doubt) -> that is a meta swing and keeps the game new and refreshing. I highly doubt its the case though, because that video expresses an anti proc viewpoint and hes probably dueling against an open world build. Procs are also really good in NOCP. That is really cool because there are so many proc sets and build diversity is opened up.

    Procs have the potential to be bad if they are overperforming. Back when viper/tremorscale was a thing they were too strong. I personally don't think they are anything like that today. And I can bet you that if the narrator of the video dueled a min maxed stam dk/templar wearing fury/dragonguard/balorghs or something similar he would be struggling. That video feeds you a very narrow viewpoint. Its not a bad video though, and a fair opinion to have and with valid concerns.
    Edited by sabresandiego_ESO on July 23, 2020 3:46PM
    Ali Dreadsabre -Necromancer
    Ali Sabre -Nightblade
  • idk
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    I doubt many are suggesting proc sets should not or are not fun. They require much less skill to get them to perform so it helps newer players and others with less player skill. The issue is buffing them so they are closer to what a skilled player can do lowers the quality of gameplay in ESO and removes the need to learn how to play better. That is bad for the longevity of the game.
  • Fur_like_snow
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    I mean a set that procs a million damage and kills all the enemy players in 500m would be pretty “fun” too but that doesn’t make it balanced. “Fun” is ultimately subjective.
    Edited by Fur_like_snow on July 23, 2020 3:31PM
  • sabresandiego_ESO
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    idk wrote: »
    I doubt many are suggesting proc sets should not or are not fun. They require much less skill to get them to perform so it helps newer players and others with less player skill. The issue is buffing them so they are closer to what a skilled player can do lowers the quality of gameplay in ESO and removes the need to learn how to play better. That is bad for the longevity of the game.

    Skilled players can use proc sets too. Skilled players can also "counter" proc sets better than unskilled players. All proc sets really do is create diverse, fun gameplay and help weaker players contribute more. Proc sets arent anywhere near the point where they remove skill from the game. A good player wearing stat sets or proc sets will absolutely destroy weak players who are using procs.
    Ali Dreadsabre -Necromancer
    Ali Sabre -Nightblade
  • sabresandiego_ESO
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    I mean a set that procs a million damage and kills all the enemy players in 500m would be pretty “fun” too but that doesn’t make it balanced. “Fun” is ultimately subjective.

    A set like that would be atrocious. Devs arent releasing sets like that.

    Look at it this way: society has unemployment, welfare, and food stamps for the poor and capital gains and business tax writeoffs for the rich. These are like proc sets because they keep people from starving or dying on the streets (like a weak player), but ultimately the successful (good players) still thrive.

    A set like you mentioned would be like giving a free $10,000 a month check to everyone forever. It would ruin the economy just like your make believe set would ruin the game. They aren't releasing sets like that.
    Ali Dreadsabre -Necromancer
    Ali Sabre -Nightblade
  • idk
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    idk wrote: »
    I doubt many are suggesting proc sets should not or are not fun. They require much less skill to get them to perform so it helps newer players and others with less player skill. The issue is buffing them so they are closer to what a skilled player can do lowers the quality of gameplay in ESO and removes the need to learn how to play better. That is bad for the longevity of the game.

    Skilled players can use proc sets too. Skilled players can also "counter" proc sets better than unskilled players. All proc sets really do is create diverse, fun gameplay and help weaker players contribute more. Proc sets arent anywhere near the point where they remove skill from the game. A good player wearing stat sets or proc sets will absolutely destroy weak players who are using procs.

    I never said anything about proc sets creating diverse gameplay or that skilled players could not use them. I did say proc sets help less-skilled players. Those points seem out of place.

    The issue is when proc sets help compete more evenly with players who have actually learned how to play there is an issue because it tells those lesser experienced players (weaker as you put it) they do not have to learn how to play as they can rely on proc sets playing the game for them. Nothing in the statement replying to my previous statement argues against that.

    Cheers
  • sabresandiego_ESO
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    idk wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    I doubt many are suggesting proc sets should not or are not fun. They require much less skill to get them to perform so it helps newer players and others with less player skill. The issue is buffing them so they are closer to what a skilled player can do lowers the quality of gameplay in ESO and removes the need to learn how to play better. That is bad for the longevity of the game.

    Skilled players can use proc sets too. Skilled players can also "counter" proc sets better than unskilled players. All proc sets really do is create diverse, fun gameplay and help weaker players contribute more. Proc sets arent anywhere near the point where they remove skill from the game. A good player wearing stat sets or proc sets will absolutely destroy weak players who are using procs.

    I never said anything about proc sets creating diverse gameplay or that skilled players could not use them. I did say proc sets help less-skilled players. Those points seem out of place.

    The issue is when proc sets help compete more evenly with players who have actually learned how to play there is an issue because it tells those lesser experienced players (weaker as you put it) they do not have to learn how to play as they can rely on proc sets playing the game for them. Nothing in the statement replying to my previous statement argues against that.

    Cheers

    Proc sets have the potential to be overpowered: but they have been underpowered for most of this games history ever since they nerfed viper/tremorscale etc...

    You are also assuming that skill is something that comes to anybody who takes time to learn: that's just not true. Some players are just extremely good, and some are terrible no matter how much they try.
    Ali Dreadsabre -Necromancer
    Ali Sabre -Nightblade
  • Fur_like_snow
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    I mean a set that procs a million damage and kills all the enemy players in 500m would be pretty “fun” too but that doesn’t make it balanced. “Fun” is ultimately subjective.

    A set like that would be atrocious. Devs arent releasing sets like that.

    Obviously. My comment was hyperbole to prove a point that over powered sets that would break the game would be seen as “fun” to others on the user end. Fun is subjective and not a great way to sway others about the positives of a proc meta. I’m of the opinion that a proc set should never deal more damage than a skill and I’d like to see a GW2 style load out system in the future so that PvP and PvE could be balanced separately.
    Edited by Fur_like_snow on July 23, 2020 3:48PM
  • Gilvoth
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    idk wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    I doubt many are suggesting proc sets should not or are not fun. They require much less skill to get them to perform so it helps newer players and others with less player skill. The issue is buffing them so they are closer to what a skilled player can do lowers the quality of gameplay in ESO and removes the need to learn how to play better. That is bad for the longevity of the game.

    Skilled players can use proc sets too. Skilled players can also "counter" proc sets better than unskilled players. All proc sets really do is create diverse, fun gameplay and help weaker players contribute more. Proc sets arent anywhere near the point where they remove skill from the game. A good player wearing stat sets or proc sets will absolutely destroy weak players who are using procs.

    I never said anything about proc sets creating diverse gameplay or that skilled players could not use them. I did say proc sets help less-skilled players. Those points seem out of place.

    The issue is when proc sets help compete more evenly with players who have actually learned how to play there is an issue

    its horrible that there are people in the eso community that actually believe that kind of thinking that others are to be forced to play eso the way one person wants others to play and if you don't then your not skilled. it truely is a form of bullying and harassment to force others to play a certain way and if they don't then they get harassed and bullied into following and insulted on the forums and ingame, that truely is horrible and needs to be looked at by the developers and changed.

    I really love seeing new sets and all kinds of proc sets and varius one piece armor pieces added to eso every patch.
    and just like some one else said recently, he worded it perfectly and i agree that its good for the community and different build scenarios. The new ones with the dungeon dlc are awesome and they're not too close to anything that already exists. Building crit damage with different damage types, i love all the different sets and set choices, All cool ideas. I think it keeps the game fresh in a good way and will keep eso going for Years to come.
    Edited by Gilvoth on July 23, 2020 4:45PM
  • jaws343
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    idk wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    I doubt many are suggesting proc sets should not or are not fun. They require much less skill to get them to perform so it helps newer players and others with less player skill. The issue is buffing them so they are closer to what a skilled player can do lowers the quality of gameplay in ESO and removes the need to learn how to play better. That is bad for the longevity of the game.

    Skilled players can use proc sets too. Skilled players can also "counter" proc sets better than unskilled players. All proc sets really do is create diverse, fun gameplay and help weaker players contribute more. Proc sets arent anywhere near the point where they remove skill from the game. A good player wearing stat sets or proc sets will absolutely destroy weak players who are using procs.

    I never said anything about proc sets creating diverse gameplay or that skilled players could not use them. I did say proc sets help less-skilled players. Those points seem out of place.

    The issue is when proc sets help compete more evenly with players who have actually learned how to play there is an issue because it tells those lesser experienced players (weaker as you put it) they do not have to learn how to play as they can rely on proc sets playing the game for them. Nothing in the statement replying to my previous statement argues against that.

    Cheers

    Proc sets have the potential to be overpowered: but they have been underpowered for most of this games history ever since they nerfed viper/tremorscale etc...

    You are also assuming that skill is something that comes to anybody who takes time to learn: that's just not true. Some players are just extremely good, and some are terrible no matter how much they try.

    The biggest problem with the proc set argument is that sure, it boosts below average players up and allows them to compete a bit more. But, at the same time, those boosts to make proc sets competitive actually make them completely oppressive in the hands of a skilled player. Which pretty much negates any of the benefits that boosting those sets had for below average players.

    They have actually been in a good place for a while on live. A few sets over-perform slightly, like Calurrians, but you have to build around it and work your gameplay to fit it. With some of these set changes, there is virtually zero drawback to running 3 proc sets and stacking health/resistances and doing nothing but triggering the procs. That isn't skilled gameplay. And while lower tier players are doing that, they are still going to get wrecked by players using 1 or 2 overly buffed proc sets in a more effective way.
  • technohic
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    If you are just silent, does that make you a majority automatically or did you go and ask everyone? And then; how did you know who everyone was? How did you get a response when they are silent?


  • Xvorg
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    proc sets are OK if they are used to complement a playing style.

    For example I like Livewire on a mDK using a lightning staff since it allows me to set an enemy off balance through proc + wall of lightning (and some extra dmg due to minor vul) without having to spend too much magicka. Malubeth + blazing shield was OK too (sadly it was nerfed due to whiners, but it was counterable through bleeds and oblivion dmg)

    What is wrong is something like Caalurion... or elf bane + Zaan
    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

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    In the wrong house
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    I took the wrong road
    That led to the wrong tendencies
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    On the wrong day of the wrong week
    Used the wrong method with the wrong technique
  • nublife01
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    Most new sets in this game are proc sets, and for a good reason: they give the devs a lot of creative ability and are a lot of fun for the majority of players. You get cool new animations and game mechanics and if the set was designed properly, it usually has fair counterplay and good balance.

    Unfortunately there is a very vocal minority of elitists and purists who always post in these forums against proc sets. These players are almost always high level PVP'rs (often duelers) with very big egos who think that their personal assessment of "skill" matters more than "fun" for the majority of players. These elitists are usually heavily invested in stat based builds and run things like balorghs, new moon, fury, clever alch, dragonguard, bloodspawn: and are extremely biased towards their investment and the way they have been playing this game for years. Their primary argument is that proc sets remove skill from the game because they fight for you, whereas with stat sets and stat based procs -> you still have to do the fighting. Let me explain why that is a false premise

    1. When you use a damage proc set you give up the buffed stats you would have gotten with a stat based 5 piece set. This means that your entire character is less effective and unless the proc set is good enough of an alternative to this "opportunity cost" -> nobody will use it over the stat sets

    2. No proc set is good enough where you don't have to "play" , because these sets go through balance testing. Whether you are using procs, or stat sets -> you still have to play the game. Proc sets do help newer/worse players contribute more, so they raise the skill floor -> but they don't lower the skill ceiling much at all because high end players understand counterplay and always adapt to new metas.

    3. Devs have data: They can see that most of the high end PVPrs are using stat sets... They know that stat based builds have been over performing in most PVP compared to proc sets since this game was made. The only place where procs might be outperforming stats now is in NOCP, and that is refreshing because it creates alternative gameplay. Data > Biased rants on forums; and that is likely the reason why they recently improved all proc sets.

    This game is about fun, not about some elitist measurement of skill. Proc sets give the devs so much more creative potential than most simple stat buff sets, and are fun for the majority of the player base. They raise the skill floor just enough to help weaker players contribute and enjoy the game more (without lowering the skill ceiling much), and they also help shift metas around which keeps this game new and exciting.

    I've played this game since beta. I think the most broken my stamblade 1vx has ever been was when old viper/veli did all my damage for me and old shadow walker did all my healing/regen for me. I think my second most powerful build was new viper valkyn skoria spriggan and vma axe in a dw/2h dot build and i did so much damage that I could wipe out entire groups of people like a bomb magblade gank build while being tanky enough to 1vx. I know for certain. that if these changes go live I will most certainly be ridiculously op again and make the game less fun for other players.

    also:

    1) There are videos made by experts that demonstrate how your first point is not true like very very false. I know this but go look up isthereno1else's video on this for example if you need a well established player to tell you this with factual evidence.

    2) Proc sets metas in the past have been horrifically unbalanced. This "balancing and testing" that you're spewing is utterly ignorant bs. Every proc set meta has been horrible. This one in combination with malacath band is going to be horrible all the same. All of these "good players" youre mentioning know this and are complaining because they have probably played the game during these metas and know how bad it was. You clearly have not.

    3) If you want data, the devs have (ever since wrobel left) introduced changes into the game that have made combat worse. It is very very rare that they have introduced changes into the game to make it better. And for once, one patch, this patch they introduced changes to make the game balanced again. That is why most people are mad because we're in the eye of the storm and a lot of people want to stay here before [snip] mess it up as they already have about proc sets. And these current changes will make it so that everyone is forced to use proc sets rather than either or. If these changes did introduced proc sets back into the game in a balance way in which you can make a viable build without using a proc set then I would be all for it. But if you go read the patch notes they certainly do not, and never have in any proc set meta since this game has existed.

    The reason people are mad is because the game is as balanced as it has ever been in a very long time. These changes are about to throw a massive wrench in that because of [snip] the forums.

    [edited for bait]
    Edited by ZOS_FalcoYamaoka on July 23, 2020 4:40PM
  • nublife01
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    idk wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    I doubt many are suggesting proc sets should not or are not fun. They require much less skill to get them to perform so it helps newer players and others with less player skill. The issue is buffing them so they are closer to what a skilled player can do lowers the quality of gameplay in ESO and removes the need to learn how to play better. That is bad for the longevity of the game.

    Skilled players can use proc sets too. Skilled players can also "counter" proc sets better than unskilled players. All proc sets really do is create diverse, fun gameplay and help weaker players contribute more. Proc sets arent anywhere near the point where they remove skill from the game. A good player wearing stat sets or proc sets will absolutely destroy weak players who are using procs.

    I never said anything about proc sets creating diverse gameplay or that skilled players could not use them. I did say proc sets help less-skilled players. Those points seem out of place.

    The issue is when proc sets help compete more evenly with players who have actually learned how to play there is an issue because it tells those lesser experienced players (weaker as you put it) they do not have to learn how to play as they can rely on proc sets playing the game for them. Nothing in the statement replying to my previous statement argues against that.

    Cheers

    this isnt true. if anything it massively widens the gap between bad and good players.

    edit: proc set meta's widen the skill gap between bad and good players i mean.
    Edited by nublife01 on July 23, 2020 4:06PM
  • GrumpyDuckling
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    idk wrote: »
    I doubt many are suggesting proc sets should not or are not fun.

    I thought OP was pretty clear with points that they were making. I don't see anywhere where they claim "many" are suggesting proc sets should not be or are not fun. Maybe you just misinterpreted?
  • sabresandiego_ESO
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    In response to nublife a few posts above:

    -That video is fake news/narrative because hes not dueling a dueling build. If he dueled a top tier dueling build (almost all are stat based) then you would see a completely different outcome.

    -You are right that proc metas have the "potential" to be bad, but so does anything else if it becomes imbalanced.

    -This is an opinion. Wroble was great, the new devs seem pretty good too. Even if procs become "Meta" over stat sets, like they are in BG's -> thats a good thing because it shifts the meta and is fun. All games become old and boring eventually.
    Edited by sabresandiego_ESO on July 23, 2020 4:08PM
    Ali Dreadsabre -Necromancer
    Ali Sabre -Nightblade
  • nublife01
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    idk wrote: »
    I doubt many are suggesting proc sets should not or are not fun.

    I thought OP was pretty clear with points that they were making. I don't see anywhere where they claim "many" are suggesting proc sets should not be or are not fun. Maybe you just misinterpreted?

    I mentioned how theyre not fun. I'll mention it again. It's because someone like me is going to create a nasty build and farm people. Like I have literally every proc set meta. That's why theyre not fun. Trust me there is going to be a crazy amount qq on the forums next patch because 1vx'ing is going to be a big issue again to casual players.
  • Girl_Number8
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    Proc sets on the PTS right now are overtuned with how combat team currently has things set up. The devs know this and should listen to the majority of feedback, that does not want to see this go live.

    For a good reason, it is highly unbalanced. It will also take away any skilled combat that is enjoyed in ESO PvP.

    I think the OP is misunderstanding that the casual players will suffer the most from this. It is also not about proc sets but how they are functioning on the PTS, to be more correct.

    Sets such as NMA were a very good step the right direction. Going towards a somewhat balanced PvPing experience. More sets like this would of been a great thing to add in.

    Proc sets as they are right now on live, really are not that much of an issue. Of course they are fun and serve their purpose. These type of sets however should not be a dominant factor in PvP combat. Past patches have shown us this.

    If the PTS goes live as it presently is, it will be another failure like the dot meta. The causal players will complain and ask for nerfs and ESO PvP will be in a worse mess. This will take away any progress made.




    Edited by Girl_Number8 on July 23, 2020 4:17PM
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